I highly recommend checking out the youtube channel 'This is Dan Bell.' for his dead mall series. There are some very depressing malls across this country. Some of them makes Regency Square Mall look like it has potential.
I also wanna note that all of these malls are on death's door seemingly because a nearby 'big bad wolf' AKA a more modern mall opened up, and made the mall dead, that's it, no other reasons period!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNz4Un92pGNxQ9vNgmnCx7dwchPJGJ3IQ
Quote from: I-10east on April 07, 2016, 11:04:21 AM
I highly recommend checking out the youtube channel 'This is Dan Bell.' for his dead mall series. There are some very depressing malls across this country. Some of them makes Regency Square Mall look like it has potential.
I also wanna wanna note that all of these malls are on death's door seemingly because a nearby 'big bad wolf' AKA more modern mall opened up, and made the mall dead, that's it no other reasons period!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNz4Un92pGNxQ9vNgmnCx7dwchPJGJ3IQ
I went to a really depressing mall in Sarasota last time I visited my folks. I can't remember the name. But there was an ice rink in one of the store and maybe three people other than us in the mall. Sad.
Quote from: Adam White on April 07, 2016, 11:46:43 AM
Quote from: I-10east on April 07, 2016, 11:04:21 AM
I highly recommend checking out the youtube channel 'This is Dan Bell.' for his dead mall series. There are some very depressing malls across this country. Some of them makes Regency Square Mall look like it has potential.
I also wanna wanna note that all of these malls are on death's door seemingly because a nearby 'big bad wolf' AKA more modern mall opened up, and made the mall dead, that's it no other reasons period!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNz4Un92pGNxQ9vNgmnCx7dwchPJGJ3IQ
I went to a really depressing mall in Sarasota last time I visited my folks. I can't remember the name. But there was an ice rink in one of the store and maybe three people other than us in the mall. Sad.
Sarasota Square :) My mom lives down there. Until recently, the mall also had a public library branch, although temporary. They also brought in Costco when one of the anchor department stores left. Still a sad mall, but I think they've done a decent job bringing in other tenants instead of vacant space.
Quote from: I-10east on April 07, 2016, 11:04:21 AM
I highly recommend checking out the youtube channel 'This is Dan Bell.' for his dead mall series. There are some very depressing malls across this country. Some of them makes Regency Square Mall look like it has potential.
I also wanna wanna note that all of these malls are on death's door seemingly because a nearby 'big bad wolf' AKA more modern mall opened up, and made the mall dead, that's it no other reasons period!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNz4Un92pGNxQ9vNgmnCx7dwchPJGJ3IQ
I'm a fan of this channel too. But I find the more fascinating stories are less the malls that got cannibalized and more the ones that were very poor planning ideas to begin with - especially the Mall at Steamtown in Scranton, with which I'm very familiar.
I'm getting old. I remember when Sarasota Square was the new kid on the block. However, Desoto Square, right up the street in Bradenton looks a lot worse these days.
For those interested in dead malls, here's two more sites that have been around for several years:
http://deadmalls.com/stories.html
http://mallhistory.com
I have mentioned it before, but I have seen an almost dead mall come back to life and thrive.
Yorktown Mall in Lombard, Illinois
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorktown_Center (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorktown_Center)
This mall is somewhat unique in that the sales tax varies depending on which stores you shop in the mall.
Also there is a sit down restaurant tax for the places surrounding the mall, but only those places.
This mall has lost 3 anchors since it was built in 1968, and thrives today. That is what makes it notable. Very few malls survive after losing so many anchors.
I first went in 1975, but by 1986 it was getting run down. It wasnt until VonMaur came in the 1996, there was little reason to go other than JC Penney.
Quote from: jaxcpa on April 07, 2016, 12:17:41 PM
Quote from: Adam White on April 07, 2016, 11:46:43 AM
Quote from: I-10east on April 07, 2016, 11:04:21 AM
I highly recommend checking out the youtube channel 'This is Dan Bell.' for his dead mall series. There are some very depressing malls across this country. Some of them makes Regency Square Mall look like it has potential.
I also wanna wanna note that all of these malls are on death's door seemingly because a nearby 'big bad wolf' AKA more modern mall opened up, and made the mall dead, that's it no other reasons period!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNz4Un92pGNxQ9vNgmnCx7dwchPJGJ3IQ
I went to a really depressing mall in Sarasota last time I visited my folks. I can't remember the name. But there was an ice rink in one of the store and maybe three people other than us in the mall. Sad.
Sarasota Square :) My mom lives down there. Until recently, the mall also had a public library branch, although temporary. They also brought in Costco when one of the anchor department stores left. Still a sad mall, but I think they've done a decent job bringing in other tenants instead of vacant space.
Yes, that must be it! I have been to most of the malls in the area, it seems. To be fair, the last time I went there it was in the middle of the day, during the week. Probably not peak mall time. But it was pretty sad.
There's another one that has a weird layout - kind of long with all the shops (or most of the shops) on one side.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 07, 2016, 01:12:32 PM
I'm getting old. I remember when Sarasota Square was the new kid on the block. However, Desoto Square, right up the street in Bradenton looks a lot worse these days.
For those interested in dead malls, here's two more sites that have been around for several years:
http://deadmalls.com/stories.html
http://mallhistory.com
labelscar.com is another great one, though it hasn't been updated in a while. I wrote the entry on Deadmalls.com for the Rockville Mall, the white elephant of my home town.
Quote from: Adam White on April 07, 2016, 04:14:17 PMThere's another one that has a weird layout - kind of long with all the shops (or most of the shops) on one side.
^That's Westfield Southgate.
https://www.westfield.com/southgate
It's actually a mall success story (although the new mall may kill it). Southgate opened a couple of years before Gateway as a strip mall in 1956. It was enclosed in 1988 (thus the weird interior layout). In the 1990s, Publix moved out and they replaced it with a Saks Fifth Avenue and revamped the center as an upscale shopping mall. In recent years, the new University Town Center took both Dillard's and Saks, leaving only Macy's as an anchor. In the midst of another makeover, Saks was recently replaced with a Cobb Cinebistro. We'll have to wait and see how it turns out. One thing going in its favor is that it is now owned by Westfield. They appear to be reinvesting in it rather than letting it sit and fall out of favor, which is what Regency's former owners allowed to happen.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 07, 2016, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Adam White on April 07, 2016, 04:14:17 PMThere's another one that has a weird layout - kind of long with all the shops (or most of the shops) on one side.
^That's Westfield Southgate.
https://www.westfield.com/southgate
It's actually a mall success story (although the new mall may kill it). Southgate opened a couple of years before Gateway as a strip mall in 1956. It was enclosed in 1988 (thus the weird interior layout). In the 1990s, Publix moved out and they replaced it with a Saks Fifth Avenue and revamped the center as an upscale shopping mall. In recent years, the new University Town Center took both Dillard's and Saks, leaving only Macy's as an anchor. In the midst of another makeover, Saks was recently replaced with a Cobb Cinebistro. We'll have to wait and see how it turns out. One thing going in its favor is that it is now owned by Westfield. They appear to be reinvesting in it rather than letting it sit and fall out of favor, which is what Regency's former owners allowed to happen.
Dude, you are seriously killing it with your knowledge of Sarasota malls.
That mall is okay. There's not a lot there, but it seems to be doing okay. I just realized that I always visit my folks in the late spring/early summer. That's the quiet period for Sarasota, as the population explodes when the so-called snowbirds arrive in the fall/winter. That might explain why everything seems a bit quiet when I'm down there.
I think I've been to Desoto Square Mall, too.
^Ha. I grew up in Central Florida and I was dragged against my will during the 80s and early 90s to every mall with a Petite Sophisticate (my mom is a shopaholic). At that point in time, larger regional malls like The Avenues were mushrooming all around the country and especially around Tampa and Orlando. The only thing making it worthwhile was a stop at any mall also included a meal at Morrison's Cafeteria or Piccadilly.
Love Dan Bell's channel. I haven't been to any of the places he's shown- the deadest mall I've personally been to is the one in Orlando that has the Bass Pro. I haven't been in several years, so I looked it up and I guess it's called "Artegon Marketplace" now and it seems like there are a lot of independent retailers in there now with a focus on handmade stuff, so that's kinda cool and they've made the entire mall "dog friendly", which is pretty awesome. I hope they're doing well. Last time I was down there, I saw maybe two or three places open besides Bass Pro.
How's Mall at Millenia doing? I've only been maybe three times. The first time, the mall was packed and seemed to be doing great, went back a few years later and saw a lot of vacant stores and some retailers like Sanrio had left.
When I lived in Tampa, my office was right across the street from a mall near Raymond James stadium.
Lakelander will know the place, I'm sure.
I think it is probably gone now. That was the deadest mall I'd ever been to. It basically stayed open so local workers could eat at the food court.
Quote from: Adam White on April 12, 2016, 08:09:54 AM
When I lived in Tampa, my office was right across the street from a mall near Raymond James stadium.
Lakelander will know the place, I'm sure.
I think it is probably gone now. That was the deadest mall I'd ever been to. It basically stayed open so local workers could eat at the food court.
That would be the former Tampa Bay Center mall. I spend a good part of my youth there. It has been torn down about 15 years now. It is now the location of the Bucs training center. Property is owned by the owner's of the Bucs.
After all these posts, I gotta shout out my love for the old Philips Mall/Market Square Mall (after all this site is called MetroJacksonville ;)). That was where I saw my first movies in theater when I was young and I thought the reincarnation into Market Square could have worked because the International Food Court they had was always hopping (at least for a little while). I know this site has a lot of interesting stories for this and other former Jax malls but I'm curious how the offices that replaced them are doing and if they are fully leased. I'm just glad that creepy hotel next to it got demolished.
^Past articles giving a shout out to the old Philips Mall:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-apr-the-story-of-phillips-highway-plaza
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-oct-the-malling-of-jacksonville
Quote from: URY914 on April 12, 2016, 08:49:34 AM
Quote from: Adam White on April 12, 2016, 08:09:54 AM
When I lived in Tampa, my office was right across the street from a mall near Raymond James stadium.
Lakelander will know the place, I'm sure.
I think it is probably gone now. That was the deadest mall I'd ever been to. It basically stayed open so local workers could eat at the food court.
That would be the former Tampa Bay Center mall. I spend a good part of my youth there. It has been torn down about 15 years now. It is now the location of the Bucs training center. Property is owned by the owner's of the Bucs.
Ah, yes! I lived in Tampa in 2001 - 2002. Probably right before it was torn down. There was a Cuban food place in that mall. And a decent sandwich place, as I recall. One of the only stores that was still open at the time was the Sanrio store - so you could get some Hello Kitty stickers to enjoy with your Cuban sandwich.
I remember when that mall was pretty popular back in the late 1980s/early 1990s. It used to get packed when the Florida Classic was played in the old "Sombrero". The architecture was pretty similar to Governor's Square in Tallahassee. There was also Eastlake Square and Floriland Mall in Tampa. Both of those died before Tampa Bay Center.
There's something very sad to me about a dead or dying mall. I think maybe because I loved spending Friday nights at Regency Square when I was in junior high. No money - just meet up with friends and walk around window shopping, wishing I could afford stuff. Good times.
Whatever I say, blah blah blah blah (hopefully Stephen doesn't disagree with it, or you know what).
Quote from: Adam White on April 12, 2016, 03:11:18 PM
There's something very sad to me about a dead or dying mall. I think maybe because I loved spending Friday nights at Regency Square when I was in junior high. No money - just meet up with friends and walk around window shopping, wishing I could afford stuff. Good times.
It's never bothered me. Most from my childhood died years ago. Only felt a little sorrow for Winter Haven Mall when everything but Macy's was torn down for a Lowe's back in 1998. That was the one I could bike to as a kid to go to the movies, Toy King, Barrel of Fun game room and Spec's music store.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 12, 2016, 03:24:31 PM
Quote from: Adam White on April 12, 2016, 03:11:18 PM
There's something very sad to me about a dead or dying mall. I think maybe because I loved spending Friday nights at Regency Square when I was in junior high. No money - just meet up with friends and walk around window shopping, wishing I could afford stuff. Good times.
It's never bothered me. Most from my childhood died years ago. Only felt a little sorrow for Winter Haven Mall when everything but Macy's was torn down for a Lowe's back in 1998. That was the one I could bike to as a kid to go to the movies, Toy King, Barrel of Fun game room and Spec's music store.
I also worked in Regency Mall when I was in college - I worked at Camelot Music. I'm biased, I know, but back in its prime, Regency was a great mall. It always had so much more personality than the Avenues, I thought.
Passing through town as a kid, I always thought Gateway had a lot of personality. We never really crossed the Mathews, pretty much sticking to the Northside and Orange Park. For you longtime Jaxsons, what's your memories of Gateway?
Quote from: stephendare on April 12, 2016, 04:45:18 PM
Regency had that perfect mix in the 80s. Cool kids working in all the shops, no real competition from any of the historic districts for awesome youth culture, Kona right around the block, and those awesome dunes right in the back of the property.
The kids came in from the Beaches (I was one of them) and it had lots of music places in the area. Camelot, Coconuts and a few other shops. The movie theatre inside the mall was also a cool draw, as the lobby was basically the food court and surrounded by all the restaurants.
There was a real incentive to show up for a movie early, eat and drink in the upstairs at the food court and hang out and meet people. There was a huge group of senior citizens that walked the mall every morning for health, and in the early part of the day it was full of the surviving Jazz Age. Former flappers and guys from WW1 and 2. They socialized with the little punk rock kids very well. (its one of the reasons why Jville punk and gothic girls all looked like flappers without pearls.
It may seem odd, but I remember Regency Mall very well from the early 1970s as well. Before the comforting tile, lower ceilings, and recessed lighting in the early 1980 renovation.
It was starker and more elegant. Way more modern. There were several modernist fountains in the mall and the interior court was full of painters and artisans making things for sale. The department stores were truly departmented instead of corporate shops made to look like there were departments, and there was a large professional class of seamstresses, tailors and showgirls that smoked and gossiped around the Penneys.
The architecture and decor were kind of hip and cutting edge for 1970---a reflection of when the city's elite was heavily populated by architects, I suspect. Now its heavy with branding and marketing people.
In a lot of ways, the public taste was more refined and ahead of the times than it is now. In the 70s the Mall was mostly concerned with longhairs, or hippies. A few of the acceptable ones were part of the artisan community in the Mall, but the younger ones were still limited to the bars and beaches.
I moved to Jax in 1979 and we went to Regency a number of times before it was renovated. What's weird is that I seem to remember it being the old mall for so much longer than it actually was. The new section was cool at first, but it never really matched the original mall for me.
The Regency area was great for music at one time. As you mentioned, Camelot and Coconuts. But also Record Bar, Tape World (later on) and the original Music Shop (owned by the Faircloths). And, of course, Turtles! I worked there, too. Loved that place.
I will admit I do miss going into the music stores and perusing the albums.
Our favorite as a kid was to go into the Rolling Stones section and pull the zipper down on the Sticky Fingers album.
It was always exciting to go and grab an Orange Julius and then down the record store to see what Elton John had come up with.
Or walk over to Video Concepts to watch ABBA concerts off laserdisc on the first projection TV's.
No cell phone stores, and sports stores were about sports and not just shoes.
Go down to the TShirt shop and find a transfer that would get the most attention at school.
Bring my custom mix cassette (TDK SA-90 of course!) Go to the stereo store and tick off the manager by playing my current favorite song on the system closest to the main mall.
(at an exceptional volume of course)
It's all gone now!!
Quote from: spuwho on April 12, 2016, 07:03:38 PM
I will admit I do miss going into the music stores and perusing the albums.
Our favorite as a kid was to go into the Rolling Stones section and pull the zipper down on the Sticky Fingers album.
It was always exciting to go and grab an Orange Julius and then down the record store to see what Elton John had come up with.
Or walk over to Video Concepts to watch ABBA concerts off laserdisc on the first projection TV's.
No cell phone stores, and sports stores were about sports and not just shoes.
Go down to the TShirt shop and find a transfer that would get the most attention at school.
Bring my custom mix cassette (TDK SA-90 of course!) Go to the stereo store and tick off the manager by playing my current favorite song on the system closest to the main mall.
(at an exceptional volume of course)
It's all gone now!!
TDK SA-90!
I remember never quite understanding what the deal was with thos CRO2 tapes or whatever. Were they worth the extra money? Could my tape player use them?
Quote from: Adam White on April 13, 2016, 02:45:09 AM
Quote from: spuwho on April 12, 2016, 07:03:38 PM
I will admit I do miss going into the music stores and perusing the albums.
Our favorite as a kid was to go into the Rolling Stones section and pull the zipper down on the Sticky Fingers album.
It was always exciting to go and grab an Orange Julius and then down the record store to see what Elton John had come up with.
Or walk over to Video Concepts to watch ABBA concerts off laserdisc on the first projection TV's.
No cell phone stores, and sports stores were about sports and not just shoes.
Go down to the TShirt shop and find a transfer that would get the most attention at school.
Bring my custom mix cassette (TDK SA-90 of course!) Go to the stereo store and tick off the manager by playing my current favorite song on the system closest to the main mall.
(at an exceptional volume of course)
It's all gone now!!
TDK SA-90!
I remember never quite understanding what the deal was with thos CRO2 tapes or whatever. Were they worth the extra money? Could my tape player use them?
Yes and Yes. IMHO, there was a noticeable difference between "normal", chrome and Metal tapes if the source material was sufficiently good and your tape deck supported it.
In general, the frequency range was greater with good tapes.
The problem with many pre-recorded Cassette albums was that they used the cheaper tape type, so they did not sounds as good as they could have.
One tape that I would love to have is the Sony Metal Master 8)
Quote from: Gunnar on April 13, 2016, 03:56:23 AM
Quote from: Adam White on April 13, 2016, 02:45:09 AM
Quote from: spuwho on April 12, 2016, 07:03:38 PM
I will admit I do miss going into the music stores and perusing the albums.
Our favorite as a kid was to go into the Rolling Stones section and pull the zipper down on the Sticky Fingers album.
It was always exciting to go and grab an Orange Julius and then down the record store to see what Elton John had come up with.
Or walk over to Video Concepts to watch ABBA concerts off laserdisc on the first projection TV's.
No cell phone stores, and sports stores were about sports and not just shoes.
Go down to the TShirt shop and find a transfer that would get the most attention at school.
Bring my custom mix cassette (TDK SA-90 of course!) Go to the stereo store and tick off the manager by playing my current favorite song on the system closest to the main mall.
(at an exceptional volume of course)
It's all gone now!!
TDK SA-90!
I remember never quite understanding what the deal was with thos CRO2 tapes or whatever. Were they worth the extra money? Could my tape player use them?
Yes and Yes. IMHO, there was a noticeable difference between "normal", chrome and Metal tapes if the source material was sufficiently good and your tape deck supported it.
In general, the frequency range was greater with good tapes.
The problem with many pre-recorded Cassette albums was that they used the cheaper tape type, so they did not sounds as good as they could have.
One tape that I would love to have is the Sony Metal Master 8)
I wish I would've had you around to explain this stuff to me when I was spending serious allowance money on blank tapes. I remember there was a switch on my tape deck for chrome tapes - but it only made things sounds slightly darker, as I recall.
I probably could've got away with cheap tapes - I doubt all my shitty indie rock and punk music required fancy cassettes.
In terms of your issue with Chrome tapes, it may have been this:
1971: Equalization of chromium dioxide (CrO2) tape set 70 μs by the DIN committe. The only reason for different equalization was to reduce noise by 4.5 dB - but that came with the cost of reducing SOL (= high dynamics)
From: http://vintagecassettes.com/_history/history.htm (http://vintagecassettes.com/_history/history.htm)
One thing I never liked was using Dolby NR since to me it removed too much of the treble, i.e. I preferred having some noise / hiss rather than reduced audio quality. I may have gotten one or two metal tapes but to me they were useless since the source material when recording was not good enough and it was also a money thing being a kid / teenager.
Quote from: Gunnar on April 13, 2016, 09:15:03 AM
In terms of your issue with Chrome tapes, it may have been this:
1971: Equalization of chromium dioxide (CrO2) tape set 70 μs by the DIN committe. The only reason for different equalization was to reduce noise by 4.5 dB - but that came with the cost of reducing SOL (= high dynamics)
From: http://vintagecassettes.com/_history/history.htm (http://vintagecassettes.com/_history/history.htm)
One thing I never liked was using Dolby NR since to me it removed too much of the treble, i.e. I preferred having some noise / hiss rather than reduced audio quality. I may have gotten one or two metal tapes but to me they were useless since the source material when recording was not good enough and it was also a money thing being a kid / teenager.
Thanks for the link. I'm totally going to read that tonight. I kind of miss tapes, to be honest. Even though they didn't sound too great and tended to have issues.
I still have quite a few tapes (original and recorded) so I got myself a nice refurbished Teac tape deck.
Unfortunately, the motorized tape door was too tempting for my then slightly less than three year old. Have been trying to find a replacement gear (the original one broke) for over two years now with no success, so I'm thinking about having one made (either with 3D printing or machining). That's the frustrating thing with older tech - you have a perfectly fine machine that you cannot use because a $1 part is broken and there are no replacement parts.
Before I go for the having the part manufactured route, I will try if the gear from another Teac tape deck that I scored on ebay will work. Hopefully they did not change the gear between models.