Per Trains:
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/04/04-floridas-sunrail-commuter-service-gets-approval-for-phase-ii (http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/04/04-floridas-sunrail-commuter-service-gets-approval-for-phase-ii)
Florida's SunRail commuter service approved for second construction phase
(http://trn.trains.com/~/media/images/railroad-news/news-wire/2014/09/0921sunrail.jpg?h=400&la=en&mw=600&w=600)
POINCIANA, Fla. — Plans to extend a commuter rail line in Florida have been given the green light. According to local media reports, the Florida Department of Transportation has given SunRail authorization to begin construction of the second phase of the SunRail commuter line, a project valued at $187 million.
According to an article in The Ledger, the second phase of the SunRail project will extend passenger service south to Poinciana, Fla., with the construction of five new passenger stations at DeLand in Volusia County, Meadow Woods station in Orange County, and three other station locations in Osceola County. The second phase of the project is expected to open for business in February 2018.
An official groundbreaking in Kissimmee, Fla., will take place later this month.
SunRail is the commuter railroad for Orlando, Fla., following a general north-south routing along former CSX Transportation tracks. The railroad began operations in 2014.
I'm surprised the extension to DeLand is included. For years, the talk had been that projected ridership was too low.
Not that they'll do it but if they would use the DeLand branch line and originate or terminate trains at the end of the branch, or better yet ra-extend it to US17/92 (where it was in the 70's) ridership would be much higher. In fact such a station would be in downtown and just steps from Stetson.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 05, 2016, 11:01:15 AM
Not that they'll do it but if they would use the DeLand branch line and originate or terminate trains at the end of the branch, or better yet ra-extend it to US17/92 (where it was in the 70's) ridership would be much higher. In fact such a station would be in downtown and just steps from Stetson.
That Branch line still runs all the way to Michigan and Delaware street, which is an industrial zone.
But if memory serves, they are going to terminate Sun Rail at the Amtrak Station in Deland off Old New York Ave, while on the CSX line, is so far away from the city center, they would have to run a bus from town to get to it, as it is north of the remaining branch line switch.
If Amtrak Station is the target, I could see a sprouting of TOD just west of the station.
Yes, the Amtrak station is the target. I do believe it would have been better to run it to the end of that industrial spur, which is three blocks west of Stetson. That Amtrak station is out in the boonies.
There is certainly plenty of room for a park-n-ride facility between Adelle and Clara Avenues, being only 2-3 blocks west of the campus and downtown.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04/1293A25C-AA9D-412E-8ADC-C3FF32A1AB0D.png_zpsp5uvxrsn.jpeg)
So if SunRail believes they will never extend north past Deland, I would push to go into town.
Clearly that is not the case here.
The studies I've seen have focused on evaluating the feasibility of extending Sunrail to Daytona. However, instead of going north on CSX track, it would branch east, and over to the median of I-4, south of DeLand. That study is supposed to be wrapped up later this year:
http://volusiaconnectorstudy.com/
http://volusiaconnectorstudy.com/pdfs/initial%20screening%20of%20alternatives-final.pdf
Yeah, there are a LOT of cypress trees between DAB and Deland looking for a ride! Somehow I don't think this will happen. Even if the state did commit to expanding Sunrail to DAB, connection with the FEC/AAF/BRIGHTLINE would be pretty tough.
I'd keep an eye on AAF as New Smyrna might pose a better station location from a developers standpoint. The FEC RY's diesel shops could easily be moved to the new AAF facilities in Orlando, West Palm or even Jacksonville. This leaves the former junction of the Orange City branch of the FEC and for former Osceola-Geneva-Christmas-Holopaw-Okeechobee branch and the large rail yard EMPTY, and 'FOR SALE.' Be a snap for Flagler to line that real estate with mid-rise mixed use buildings.
I believe the back side of the New Smyrna Airport also ties to the railroad. As for a Sunrail line, much of the former Orange City branchline from the CSX through Orange City and Lake Helen, appears to be recoverable without too much residential/business relocation. So you've got lots of available land, possible FEC/SUNRAIL connection and an airport all within the DAB metro...
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 07, 2016, 12:53:49 PM
Yeah, there are a LOT of cypress trees between DAB and Deland looking for a ride! Somehow I don't think this will happen.
I had to coordinate that study with another I was involved with at the time. I was already skeptical
(doesn't make sense to build new track for commuter rail through miles of swamp and undevelopable land in an interstate median) and then they showed me an alternative that included building a rail tunnel under I-95 to reach the airport terminal. :o At that point, capital cost and ridership numbers had not been estimated.
QuoteEven if the state did commit to expanding Sunrail to DAB, connection with the FEC/AAF/BRIGHTLINE would be pretty tough.
The FEC connection (via AAF's Beachline segment) makes a lot more sense. As time goes on, I think more people will realize that.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 05, 2016, 06:51:46 AM
I'm surprised the extension to DeLand is included. For years, the talk had been that projected ridership was too low.
the ridership will be very low. But politics rule the day.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 07, 2016, 11:19:16 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on April 05, 2016, 06:51:46 AM
I'm surprised the extension to DeLand is included. For years, the talk had been that projected ridership was too low.
the ridership will be very low. But politics rule the day.
I emailed some people in Deland about this for feedback. Not sure I will get any kind of response however.
On Monday, I'll check with a co-worker from West Volusia that's in the know. She'll give me a pretty quick answer.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 07, 2016, 11:19:16 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on April 05, 2016, 06:51:46 AM
I'm surprised the extension to DeLand is included. For years, the talk had been that projected ridership was too low.
the ridership will be very low. But politics rule the day.
Terminating Sunrail in downtown DeLand would be a game changer for ridership too. 30-40k potential customers in a very compact traditional city setting could only be a win-win. Also DeLand is pretty rail friendly, considering Amtrak has two trains daily which serve DeLand-Winter Park-Orlando-Kissimmee and managed to serve 26,502 customers at a depot no where near anything, besting Palatka, Okeechobee, Lakeland and Delray Beach. 28.1% of the passenger count in Jacksonville!
BTW, the West Volusia Beacon plans to run this idea in their letters to the editor. Be interesting to see if we get any quality attention.
Ok, initial feedback is that the cost to update the number of crossings and rail on what is now a little used 10 mph industrial lead would torpedo the whole option.
Many of those crossings are little more than crossbucks that require either a lot of train horns or put a quiet zone in place which would be very expensive.
Unknown is the amount of residential remediation that may be required since many line up against the tracks.
Here is what happened last October.
Per the Sentinel:
Rail managers learned Thursday they will not receive $35 million from the federal government to expand the commuter train system 13 miles north to DeLand in Volusia County, dealing a potentially lethal blow to the planned extension.
Volusia and SunRail leaders had been counting on the federal grant to cover half of the $70 million cost of the leg. Volusia and the state, which operates SunRail, were expected to pick up the remainder of the expense.
Rumors had circulated for weeks that the money would not come to SunRail because the projected ridership in DeLand was too low, at roughly 200 riders per weekday. Volusia's only stop, at DeBary, has averaged more than twice that much, at 560.
Volusia County Chairman and SunRail board member Jason Davis said he is not sure how to salvage the DeLand station.
"We are going to have to see what our next step will be," he said.
U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, who confirmed that the grant was not in the offing, said he is trying to organize a meeting in DeLand on Nov. 10 with Volusia and SunRail officials to devise a new strategy.
"I'm going to see what our options are," said Mica, who helped secure funding for the original 31.5 miles of SunRail, plus the recent federal award of $93 million to extend the train 17 miles south into Osceola County.
SunRail spokesman Steve Olson said the state remains committed to the DeLand station, but is uncertain about what comes next.
"It's tough news, but we'll see where we go from here," Olson said.
Mica said one possible solution would be going to Orange City rather than DeLand because it is a shorter extension and might draw more riders. But Davis said building a station and roads to serve it likely would be too expensive.
Davis said he would prefer SunRail go all the way to Daytona, but concedes the price tag for that — as yet unknown — would be multiples of the DeLand estimate.
The fate of the DeLand station might have been sealed several years ago, when the decision was made to break SunRail into two phases, the first of which opened a year ago in May. That runs from DeBary through downtown Winter Park and Orlando to Sand Lake Road in south Orange County.
The Osceola link, officially approved by the federal government last month, has an anticipated ridership of 2,000 people daily — or more than half of the average of 3,700 passengers the system has carried during its first 18 months of operation.
The Osceola leg is supposed to be up and running by December 2017. Trains will stop at the Meadow Woods community in south Orange, near the Tupperware business campus, downtown Kissimmee and Poinciana.