By way of the Daily Record:
QuoteAetna considering move from Southbank to suburbs
Aetna has a decision to make — one that might have the insurance giant leaving Downtown.
It can keep its 840 employees and possible expansion on the Southbank or pack up and move to a suburban site once its lease expires Aug. 31, 2017.
As it stands, the suburban option might be more lucrative.
There is a "substantial" financial gap between the two offers, according to a city report. It's one Downtown Investment Authority CEO Aundra Wallace said comes in at around "a few million."
Full article at:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=547307
That's over a thousand jobs, post-expansion.
What Square footage or percentage of the building does Aetna take up?
Sounds like they're headed to the Southside....
It's the train's fault. :D
The article doesn't disclose the location in Southside but I know they are looking at the BOA complex by the Avenues mall (which BOA has been actively marketing for awhile now).
So much progress and then something like this happens....
Quote from: dp8541 on March 30, 2016, 03:36:20 PM
The article doesn't disclose the location in Southside but I know they are looking at the BOA complex by the Avenues mall (which BOA has been actively marketing for awhile now).
BAC sold the Southside Campus a few years ago but have notified JLL that they are not going to pursue any of the excess space post consolidation.
Tax Defense has already leased space and moved in and the owners are getting ready to build a new parking garage between Building 400 and the Best Buy.
The campus does have some built in features somewhat unique to an office park.
- A full service day care
- Full onsite cafeteria with catering services
- Complete backup power generation
- Close access to 3 major highways (95/295E/295W)
- Surrounded by retail (including lots of car dealers)
- 2 parking garages (soon to be 3)
Word on the street is that the Bank of America sign on Southside is getting replaced with a office park sign and there is talk of who is getting signage rights on Building 100 (the tall one at the entrance)
one step forward. 2,000000000 steps back. shit never changes around here.
When Barnett built the campus in the late 80'/early 90's, it was the same time as they built 50 Laura. And they owned both. When NationsBank bought them, they acquired both. However Nations didn't want to own real estate, so they promptly sold both 50 Laura and the Campus. Then Nations bought Bank Of America, and retained the BOA name. (Nations bought BOA, not the other way around)
Just some useless trivia I had banging around in my brain.
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on March 30, 2016, 08:10:05 PM
one step forward. 2,000000000 steps back. shit never changes around here.
That's the world we live in. There's always going to be competition. Downtown has to grow and revitalize to become a place that people want to be, regardless of the cost to operate. It is what it is.
Quote from: Houseboat Mike on March 30, 2016, 09:11:48 PM
When Barnett built the campus in the late 80'/early 90's, it was the same time as they built 50 Laura. And they owned both. When NationsBank bought them, they acquired both. However Nations didn't want to own real estate, so they promptly sold both 50 Laura and the Campus. Then Nations bought Bank Of America, and retained the BOA name. (Nations bought BOA, not the other way around)
Just some useless trivia I had banging around in my brain.
No worries. It has little to do with what was Nations now.
BAC may list their HQ as Charlotte, but in reality they are run out of BOAT (Bank of America Tower) in downtown NYC. It's a weird charade they have been promoting for awhile now.
Insurance companies (like Aetna) tend to have similar facility requirements as banks, so the fact they are kicking the tires on 9000 Southside is not a surprise at all.
Why is the cost so much lower in the burbs? I thought the DT rates were lower than the suburbs (which is the opposite of most cities)? Is the cost difference just paying for structured parking ?
Probably a few things. The vacated Southside location just may be willing to cut them a cheaper deal. Especially as Aetna is looking to expand.
^Yeah. It sounds the complete opposite of the Citizens deal. In the Citizens case, EverBank Center's landlord offered them a deal that the burbs couldn't beat. For some property owners, filling a big chunk of empty space at a lower lease rate is better than it sitting empty hoping that someone will eventually come in at a much higher rate.
Quote from: David on March 30, 2016, 03:16:35 PM
It's the train's fault. :D
AMEN!!! Especially during shift change over at Baptist. It's too much of a cluster-f! Sometimes the cops that direct traffic and pedestrians add to the melee!
I just don't feel that moving all of these people and adding to the Southside congestion is a good idea either. It would be nice if they could find something on the Northbank. Even a build-to-suit in Brooklyn or in The District/Healthy Town.
^This isn't their corporate headquarters, so I can't imagine them wanting to do a build-to-suit anywhere in town. It seems like they're in search of the most cost effective location.
Traffic on the southside was a disaster today. That would be funny if Aetna used today as their commute benchmark. Looking at today, they would probably stay downtown.
I am a strong supporter of a vibrant downtown, however a few points to consider.
They probably surveyed their employees and if a lot of them live at the beach, on the Southside, or in St. Johns County, then that is something for them to consider.
The construction in and around downtown is never-ending. In the drive from St. Johns County there is construction at the future 9B interchange, at the Old St. Augustine interchange, at the JTB interchange, and from Emerson all the way into downtown. The traffic back ups get tiring for employees I'm sure.
At the same time, Southside Blvd is getting worse each month. Today was especially bad as my commute home was an extra 45 minutes.
They would lose the public exposure of not being part of our skyline, but they might not care about that.
Rent, and parking cost usually land near the top of the list.
Will the downtown landlord compete or try to compete with the south side?
Quote from: Dolph1975 on March 31, 2016, 05:39:01 PM
Quote from: David on March 30, 2016, 03:16:35 PM
It's the train's fault. :D
AMEN!!! Especially during shift change over at Baptist. It's too much of a cluster-f! Sometimes the cops that direct traffic and pedestrians add to the melee!
I just don't feel that moving all of these people and adding to the Southside congestion is a good idea either. It would be nice if they could find something on the Northbank. Even a build-to-suit in Brooklyn or in The District/Healthy Town.
I too wonder if Peter Rummell will try to recruit either Aetna or even JEA for its new office tower in Healthy Town. Hopefully the school board is also considering a move next door in Healthy town/ The District.
Quote from: Marle Brando on April 01, 2016, 07:14:25 AM
Quote from: Dolph1975 on March 31, 2016, 05:39:01 PM
Quote from: David on March 30, 2016, 03:16:35 PM
It's the train's fault. :D
AMEN!!! Especially during shift change over at Baptist. It's too much of a cluster-f! Sometimes the cops that direct traffic and pedestrians add to the melee!
I just don't feel that moving all of these people and adding to the Southside congestion is a good idea either. It would be nice if they could find something on the Northbank. Even a build-to-suit in Brooklyn or in The District/Healthy Town.
I too wonder if Peter Rummell will try to recruit either Aetna or even JEA for its new office tower in Healthy Town. Hopefully the school board is also considering a move next door in Healthy town/ The District.
A leasing sign was hung on the fence at the JEA property a month or so ago. It has a rendering of the site on it that appears the office tower is absent. Not sure if it's an old rendering or what but it looks more downplayed than some of the others I have seen.
Quote from: spuwho on March 30, 2016, 07:08:18 PM
Quote from: dp8541 on March 30, 2016, 03:36:20 PM
The article doesn't disclose the location in Southside but I know they are looking at the BOA complex by the Avenues mall (which BOA has been actively marketing for awhile now).
BAC sold the Southside Campus a few years ago but have notified JLL that they are not going to pursue any of the excess space post consolidation.
Tax Defense has already leased space and moved in and the owners are getting ready to build a new parking garage between Building 400 and the Best Buy.
The campus does have some built in features somewhat unique to an office park.
- A full service day care
- Full onsite cafeteria with catering services
- Complete backup power generation
- Close access to 3 major highways (95/295E/295W)
- Surrounded by retail (including lots of car dealers)
- 2 parking garages (soon to be 3)
Word on the street is that the Bank of America sign on Southside is getting replaced with a office park sign and there is talk of who is getting signage rights on Building 100 (the tall one at the entrance)
I had no idea that BOA didn't take up the whole place anymore. You would think that the ML guys would have moved in after they bought them.
^That's what happens when a local company gets acquired by one based in another community. Similar operations get streamlined and most of those lost jobs typically don't happen in the city the new corporate headquarters is based in. This is the primary reason Jax's skyline hasn't really grown since the early 1990s.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-aug-seven-decisions-that-killed-downtown/page/
The mergers of banks and insurance companies resulted in us having a lot more office space than needed, once the corporate streamlining process was completed. Since this particular office complex was once Barnett's, it's no different than what took place with the BOA tower in downtown.
Quote from: fsquid on April 01, 2016, 09:49:43 AM
Quote from: spuwho on March 30, 2016, 07:08:18 PM
Quote from: dp8541 on March 30, 2016, 03:36:20 PM
The article doesn't disclose the location in Southside but I know they are looking at the BOA complex by the Avenues mall (which BOA has been actively marketing for awhile now).
BAC sold the Southside Campus a few years ago but have notified JLL that they are not going to pursue any of the excess space post consolidation.
Tax Defense has already leased space and moved in and the owners are getting ready to build a new parking garage between Building 400 and the Best Buy.
The campus does have some built in features somewhat unique to an office park.
- A full service day care
- Full onsite cafeteria with catering services
- Complete backup power generation
- Close access to 3 major highways (95/295E/295W)
- Surrounded by retail (including lots of car dealers)
- 2 parking garages (soon to be 3)
Word on the street is that the Bank of America sign on Southside is getting replaced with a office park sign and there is talk of who is getting signage rights on Building 100 (the tall one at the entrance)
I had no idea that BOA didn't take up the whole place anymore. You would think that the ML guys would have moved in after they bought them.
There was some debate years ago about how they were going to balance the real estate between the Deer Lake Campus (Merrill Lynch) and the Southside Campus (BAC).
Essentially they allowed Deer Lake to fill up, and let Southside open up through attrition.
BAC recently changed their work from home policy for some of the divisions, so many BAC people are coming back in the next 30-60 days to fill out the remaining space they lease at Southside. After they did this in Charlotte, almost 500 employees either quit, changed jobs or were laid off for refusing to come back in. My understanding is that the come back rate in Jacksonville is very high. Reportedly, there are employees that have worked at home since the Barnett days and they too will have to come back in after over 20 years. JLL says the BAC specified work cubes are very small and the noise is high due to density. It will be a tough transition for someone used to working in the relative quiet of their home for so long.
So if Aetna does come to this location, it will be very full. I can see why they would want to build another garage if this comes to fruition.
Aetna is looking for a campus-style headquarters.
Doesn't bode well for them staying put:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=547322
^interesting:
QuoteIt wants to expand by another 150 to 300 jobs, mainly in the area of call center representatives, said Downtown Investment Authority CEO Aundra Wallace.
Such jobs are typically housed in suburban office parks, which is where Aetna has scouted.
"I knew when they were looking into the suburbs, they were looking for campus-type environments," said Wallace
QuoteWallace said the nature of the expansion is a factor in the company's possible move, as office parks have ample surface parking that doesn't factor into lease rates.
QuoteWallace said while suburban spaces can offer better rates and ample surface parking, Downtown provides better company exposure in a "very good business community fabric."
"It comes down to business model," said Wallace. "Maybe Downtown doesn't fit their business model right now."
I'm trying to see a silver lining in the impending Aetna move away from the southbank besides it's commitment to expand it's operations and pledge to stay in the area. Could their departure help the core by keeping square foot leasing rates from getting too overheated making it more competitive to attract businesses not just from the suburbs but other CBDs in the region?
That is wishful. There will continue to be a lot of commercial space throughout DT.
Well atleast they are still in Jax. I know that a DT company heading to the burbs is the end of the world, gotcha. We have been very fortunate with keeping virtually all of our companies in town (outside of the occasional acquisition), and adding additional ones.
Losing 800 office jobs in the core is pretty significant. Really undoes all the progress that's been made this year. It seems like every week a new firm moves downtown but it's the smaller 15 to 100 people offices. This hurts viability for every other form of retail and restaurant. Hope they either decide to stay by some miracle or the owner can convince another big firm in town to relocate. Unlikely. But I know FCSL was looking to move downtown.
The Southbank is a vertical office park. Especially, Aetna's location. While it would suck if they left, it wouldn't be as bad as EverBank or Citizens (each with +2k employees in the urban Northbank) bailing.
I wouldn't be shocked to see Baptist take more space there if Aetna moves.
Quote from: edjax on April 02, 2016, 11:09:21 AM
I wouldn't be shocked to see Baptist take more space there if Aetna moves.
Exactly my thoughts. They just recently gobbled up some of the office space near where the district is going in. I'm sure they're kicking themselves now that prime office space will be opening in their main building. Regardless, I'm sure they'll put it to use.
Quote from: edjax on April 02, 2016, 11:09:21 AM
I wouldn't be shocked to see Baptist take more space there if Aetna moves.
Agreed. While I'd hate to see them leave, this building in particular never seems to have trouble staying leased.
One Call Care Management in there is growing as well.
It is official....they are moving.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=547626 (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=547626)
oh well......that stinks. Hopefully they can add new tenants soon.
"The 14.6 percent vacancy rate for office space Downtown compares with a 16.1 percent rate in the suburbs, according to JLL."
The proposed parking garage is a 3 deck curved affair at the south end of the complex. Its pretty massive.
QuoteDowntown has to grow and revitalize to become a place that people want to be, regardless of the cost to operate. It is what it is.
Baptist will gladly take the space. They will own the entire southbank before its over with...They will be connected to Healthy Town one way or another.
Unsure what kind of jobs were there, but it may make sense for them to go to the burbs.
I hope they like traffic because The Avenues is beyond crazy at 5pm. While I am sure many of their employees already had traffic wowes downtown, at least people had an option of living close to work. Whether they exercised that option is a matter of personal preference, but no one will have that option where they are moving to.
The crazy thing is that particular area of Southside probably has a denser population base than the Southbank and Northbank combined. There's nothing but apartment complexes in the vicinity. I don't know where most of their employees live, but I would not be surprised if a chunk end up with a shorter commute. Unfortunately, Southside Blvd is designed to be a pedestrian death trap. When I lived down there, you always have to be careful of pedestrians crossing through the overgrown medians at night, due to there being no sidewalks, poor street lighting and periodic signals with crosswalks.
Quote from: Kerry on May 25, 2016, 11:59:09 AM
I hope they like traffic because The Avenues is beyond crazy at 5pm. While I am sure many of their employees already had traffic wowes downtown, at least people had an option of living close to work. Whether they exercised that option is a matter of personal preference, but no one will have that option where they are moving to.
Im not sure exactly how you define living close to work, but I would say it is a fairly safe bet one of the many reasons Aetna is moving to the Avenues area is because this will be a much shorter commute for a lot of their employees. A lot of their employees will save a lot of time commuting from southern Duval, Clay and St Johns counties to the Avenues as opposed to going all the way downtown.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 25, 2016, 12:05:08 PM
Unfortunately, Southside Blvd is designed to be a pedestrian death trap. When I lived down there, you always have to be careful of pedestrians crossing through the overgrown medians at night, due to there being no sidewalks, poor street lighting and periodic signals with crosswalks.
It's a little better now, I believe. Not a walkers paradise but at least they put in sidewalks lol.
Their new office is nowhere close to being as dense as the current location. For example, draw a 1 mile circle around their current location and draw 1 mile circle around the new building.
It probably just came down to price. The bean counters don't take anything else into consideration.
Jacksonville is a donut hole community. A one mile circle around their current location doesn't even pick up most of Five Points or the Cathedral District on the Northbank. It does cover San Marco and Brooklyn though. Maybe 4k residents tops, based on 2010 census numbers. Outside of that, there's a denser collection of surface parking lots, garages, half vacant office buildings, personal despair, river water and crab traps.
Expand to a 3 mile radius, where chunks of the Westside and Northside neighborhoods are included and the numbers change. However, the demographics of that population base most likely don't align with the demographics of their workforce.
Nevertheless, yes, I agree that it came down to price 100%. But I don't fault the company. Aetna is a private company in business to make money. They aren't based in Jax, so there's no civic obligation to pay more for space and parking in DT Jax verses heading elsewhere.
Yea, the problem was created long ago when the City allowed large-scale suburban office buildings. I guess we will just have to wait for economic realities to catch up and then we can pay the tax piper for our economic sins.
We're starting to see some of the economic realities now. Our pension situation is an indirect result of poor growth management decisions over an extended period of time.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 25, 2016, 04:12:25 PM
We're starting to see some of the economic realities now. Our pension situation is an indirect result of poor growth management decisions over an extended period of time.
That, and toll lanes on sububan freeways. The free ride is litterally coming to an end.
Good example. FDOT can't afford to keep building and maintaining all of these highways, so managed lanes are a partially a response to this situation.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 25, 2016, 04:26:38 PM
Good example. FDOT can't afford to keep building and maintaining all of these highways, so managed lanes are a partially a response to this situation.
You pay one way or the other. Tolls either provide new roads, they can suppress temporarily tax increases, but ultimately, the cost is born by the user.
Many northern US states have highway maintenance budgets that are enormous due to the weather demands, which Florida typically doesnt deal with.
Toll Roads are popular in the north because it helps with the maintenance costs.
Toll roads in Florida were tools to get roads built for economic development, now they are more traffic management efforts.
I'm totally fine with cost born by the user. Most toll roads still don't cover the full cost that covers their construction and long term maintenance but it's better than the alternative. Nevertheless, we're still building them for economic development too. The First Coast Expressway and Polk Parkway are two great examples in this state.
I know we are getting way off subject (sort of), but if freeways created sustainable economic growth every sprawling city in America would have so much excess cash they couldn't spend it all. Instead, we still have to subsidize developers and companies and cities are broke. Somewhere along the way the growth model didn't work like we were told it would.
Aetna completes their move to the Southside this week to the former Barnett Bank Campus (now Gramercy Woods Corporate Park).
(Also SS&C is moving 200 people in as well)
The $21 Million, 5 deck, 2000 car garage Gramercy built for Bank of America employees is nearly finished. The former bank parking garages will be for Aetna employees only and will require a badge to get through the gates. (The garage also includes e-chargers to support plug ins)
Gramercy has also started a free shuttle service between the far ends of the campus so BAC employees don't have to traverse the entire breadth of the campus to reach another building.
Odd signs have popped up on the surface parking lots that say "Tenant Parking Only" which means no BAC employees allowed (even though technically, they are tenants too) They want them in that expensive garage, not taking up space for the other lease holders.
The campus cafeteria has odd signs that say, "BAC Employees Only" ...."Tenants use front door"..but the cafe is run by Compass Food Services.
Long time BAC employees have noted there is a new buzz on the campus now with all of the Aetna employees moving in. More pedestrians, more people in the cafeteria, but in a negative note, way more traffic.
With Aetna taking over the 2 existing garages and BAC restricted to the new multi-level parking deck, traffic backups leaving the campus have already started. With only 2 exits to Southside Blvd and a psuedo exit to the Avenues Mall, the campus is already seeing backups that swing all the way to the back. Old time Barnett employees are saying its almost 1998 again.
Oddly, right after filling the park up, renaming it after its owner (Gramercy Woods), they sold the 4 of the buildings to Ladder of NYC 4 weeks ago for $115 Million. The rest is still up for sale.
I brought up the major move of new companies with the managers of the nearby Chick-Fil-A, Newks, Longhorn and Five Guys across Southside.
They said that biz from the BAC people had actually gone down due to the construction and subsequent shortage of parking spots. But they all expected sales to rise when things settle down.
Some BAC HR people have been cranky because it appears the bank gave up "too much" space it seems and can't get all of their new hires and contractors any cube space.
It will be interesting to see how retail, traffic and other patterns change due to this major shift in Jacksonville employment.
So no more "AETNA" sign on the skyscraper on the southbank?
Quote from: heights unknown on July 03, 2017, 11:51:54 PM
So no more "AETNA" sign on the skyscraper on the southbank?
Not anymore, but the discussion has been that a company named One Call is taking over the naming rights for the building.