Alright, I've said before that Obama is a pretty good example of a Marxist/Communist, if not at least has Marxist tendencies in his policies, his philosophy, and his affiliations. Hmmm...I think this pretty much confirms my statements [emphasis added, mine]:
QuoteObama site urges: 'Revolution' against U.S. 'oppressive' regime
Marxists, socialists, communists form group to plot on official campaign blog
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Posted: June 30, 2008
8:44 pm Eastern
By Aaron Klein
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
JERUSALEM â€" Marxists, socialists and communists have created a safe space online to congregate, exchange ideas â€" including a stated revolution against the U.S. "oppressive" regime â€" and support their favored presidential candidate.
Their meeting spot? Sen. Barack Obama's official campaign website, which allows registered users to form groups and post content in online "community" blogs.
One popular community group on the Illinois senator's official MyObama website calls itself "Marxists/Socialists/Communists for Obama."
"This group is for self-proclaimed Marxists/Communists/Socialists for the election of Barack Obama to the Presidency. By no means is he a true Marxist, but under Karl Marx's writings we are to support the party with the best interests of the mobilization of the proletariat," states the groups charter.
"We support Barack Obama because he knows what is best for the people!" exclaims the group's online creed.
And on Obama's site, the declared Marxist, communist and socialist bloggers rant against such varied targets as Republicans, capitalism and the Fox News Channel. According to author profiles, the bloggers range from registered voters to underage high school students who state they are looking to foment revolt.
In a posting titled "The Nature of the Proletariat," one group member calls for revolution against the U.S. "oppressive" regime.
According to Marxist doctrine, the proletariat is the only class that can overpower and vanquish the oppressive bourgeoisie. ... In America, the 'peasantry' is not scattered from each other but rather seem (sic) to be isolated in certain high-population areas. This then leaves the Petty-Bourgeoisie. Are they a possible force of a Revolution? I believe so. Not because I think that they could on there own, but because of the fact that they seemed to have assimilated with the Proletariat.
The middle class is now made up of the laborers who must face the grueling task of providing the bourgeoisie with power and capital. This assimilation only proves that the Revolution is inevitable.
"Eventually, the bourgeoisie controlled government will fail to keep the ever growing masses at bay, and the Revolution will occur," adds the posting.
The user argues Obama will help advance the "revolution," which he says can be a physical revolt or massive governmental reform:
"The Neo-proleatarian is now the bearer of the Revolution. That's why I support Obama. He helps destroy the paradigm of bourgeoisie government, which is best for the Proletariat. In the end, this will only hasten the Revolution even if the Revolution must come as a massive government reform."
Another posting by a registered group member calling himself "The Chalk Graffiti Terrorist" argues on Obama's site against the "evils" of capitalism.
"We can’t just accept the evil side of capitalism. The nature of capitalism is to maximize profits, and this is often done by minimizing expenditureâ€"in short, cutting costs. And cutting costs means less benefits, less pay, and poorer conditions for the workers. But capitalism has more evil in it than that. The profit motive drives the destruction of our environment, it has caused the current foreclosure crisis, and it exploits and basically enslaves those poor not protected by legitimate representative government."
One group member urges Obama site readers to support the FairTax bill, which calls for the abolishment of the IRS and for the income tax to be replaced with a national consumption tax. The bill has some support across the U.S. political spectrum, including with some Republicans.
"This bill was created to try and rectify the problems that have emerged from the Federal Income Tax and the IRS's existence. It would repeal the 16th Amedment and put in its place a national sales tax for the United States Government to collect revenue."
It was not immediately clear whether Obama's website staff approves new groups registered on his site. His campaign did not return WND e-mail and phone requests for comment. While the website carries a disclaimer that it does not monitor all blog posts, the site doesn't state whether staff approve new groups.
According to the MyObama site, there were 18,911 registered community groups as of yesterday, including such groups as "Atheists for Obama," "Jedi Knights for Obama," "Muslims for Obama" and "'The Secret' Believers for Obama."
Obama spokesmen previously have stated the campaign cannot monitor all content posted on blogs, but it promptly removes content brought to its attention that is deemed inappropriate or hateful.
Yesterday WND reported a blog posting on Obama's official campaign site urged Americans to take action to secure the release of imprisoned terrorist fundraiser Sami Al-Arian, comparing the controversial former professor to Martin Luther King and Malcolm X.
The posting, which has been removed since publication of the story, is just a sampling of a large volume of racist, anti-Semitic and pro-Palestinian rhetoric published on the user-friendly MyObama community blog pages.
One recently removed posting claims Jews control the media. Another referred to Jews as "puppet masters" and "war criminals." Yet another posting, titled "The Israeli connection to 9/11," claimed Israeli intelligence was involved in the mega-attack and planted "false flags" to blame Arab countries.
Other MyObama posts have warned of "Judeofacists and their Neocon comrades" who "already destroyed America" and declare the "entire Congress should be overthrown by revolution for having sold America to the Israelis."
A popular topic on Obama's site apparently is the so-called Israel Lobby.
An Obama site search under the key words "Israel lobby" brings up a large number of pages with titles such as "Bush uses Nazi history against Obama to pander to the Jewish lobby" and "The Israel Lobby: bad for the world."
In one recently removed posting, titled, "How the Jewish Lobby works," the page read, "No lobby is feared more" and claimed Jews "run the Federal Reserve Bank, US Homeland Security, and the US State Department."
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=68462
You know, I have called for a "revolution" myself, but in no way do we want
this kind. I would like a revolution of sorts, but one that cleanses our government of its corruption and places more power back to the states/citizens of this nation.
This, on the other hand, confirms that Marxists see Obama as a catalyst to overthrow the current form of government and create an entirely different one, more to their liking. On his official website.
Brilliant.
Birds of a feather flock together.
Oh my God, are you F-ING KIDDING ME?!?!?
Apparently, you can't even read your own stupid post:
"By no means is he [Obama] a true Marxist..."
So, if i go to McCrap's website and start a group called "racist rednecks for McCain", and state that as a racist redneck, McCrap is the closest thing to my beliefs, that makes him a racist redneck?
Your logic is terrible, your argument flawed, and the future does not belong to you.
Go back into your closet and keep being afraid of the scary black man.
Quote from: Charleston native on July 01, 2008, 09:23:51 AM
This, on the other hand, confirms that Marxists see Obama as a catalyst to overthrow the current form of government and create an entirely different one, more to their liking. On his official website.
Brilliant.
I just re-read your post, and ***** are you dumb. ANYONE can post anything on those websites, as evidenced by the "article" itself. This is the same tired, UNTRUE argument that windbag dumbass wingnut radio hosts have been levelling for several weeks. We get it, you aren't concerned with "facts"-- good job, you moron.
I say again, the future does not belong to you.
Now this is intelligent discourse. :D
yeah, i petitioned for the same thing RG - Eazy E - i like you and all, but can you edit your posts?
when you signed up, you agreed to NOT use profanity and personal attacks.
QuoteI just re-read your post, and ***** are you dumb.
Pretty despicable Stephen that you would defend such a vicious attack, but I'm not surprised. I guess all the manners and niceties go out the door if someone actually has the balls to show what your man truly stands for...or at least has no problem with it or the association with it. These aren't lies. This party is clearly shown in Obama's website with their comments. Facts suck, don't they?
Eazy E, with comments like those, I shouldn't even stoop to your level to discuss anything with you since you're so deluded with your leader, but maybe you should take up reading comprehension before you post. Since you read the post twice, it makes your comments even dumber. I didn't say that Obama is definitively, without a doubt, a true Marxist/Communist, but he has shown tendencies toward this philosophy. His actions and words provide a pretty good example of one who supports it. Now I show something like substantial proof, such as the group's complete support and endorsement, and you spew denigrating attacks with using foul language. Clearly an emotional, radical response, a legitimate example of someone who follows a fricking cult.
It is true that the group says Obama is not a true Marxist, but you apparently didn't read disturbing statements like: "The Neo-proleatarian is now the bearer of the Revolution. That's why I support Obama. He helps destroy the paradigm of bourgeoisie government, which is best for the Proletariat. In the end, this will only hasten the Revolution even if the Revolution must come as a massive government reform." Which was bolded for you to notice, if you even cared. Good Lord.
And your example with McCain is pretty idiotic...not only is it not true, but it is highly unlikely to happen. Oh yeah, and McCain, being the shrewd politician he is, would disavow a party like that and delete it from his website. Let's see if Obama does the same.
Quote from: stephendare on July 01, 2008, 01:32:55 PM
Surely a truth moderator would be just as necessary.
If you are going to call people mean things like 'marxists' and you know for a fact that it is a provocative lie, then you shouldnt get so worked up when you get your intended outcome.
We arent children here. After all, even children usually feel ashamed when they are caught lying.
in Dale Carnegie's book "how to win friends and influence people" he talks about how there is a certain group of people out in the world. they are not large in number, but when you meet them, you can identify them rather quickly. in a multi-way conversation, if EVERYONE says "A", they say "B". even if they don't believe "B" to be true.
see - one of the few ways these people believe they prove their value is in disagreeing verbally - even when they don't really disagree. otherwise, they feel they are bringing no "real value to the table" of discussion. this is obviously not true, but this small subsection of population believes it to be so.
It looks like this thread has run its course.
Can you guys just leave the board for the afternoon and come back in a better mood?
Also, if someone posts profanity, please don't copy it in response after response. Its harder to remove.
thanks Jason.
I apologize for using profanity, but i stand by my statements. What that f***ing g*******d stupid f*** posted was pure crap, and I will call him out on it in strenuous language anytime I see it. Petty, UNTRUTHFUL CRAP like that is the hallmark of our country since that dumbs*** W became president, and until someone stands tall to it, calling it out as the lie it is, it will keep coming.
Is it a lie Eazy? Please look at Obama's website (I know you must frequent there often). Obama may not be a true Marxist, but when you have Marxists and Communists who see him as an enabler of their revolution, THAT'S A PROBLEM. Obama may have taken it off the website by now...which would be a smart move.
Keep making literal attacks and name-calling too. Use profanity if you will, but it doesn't help your argument any. In fact, it only further demonstrates your radicalism and literally cultish following for this man.
Stephen.
Thanks.
I think. ;)
Quote from: Charleston native on July 01, 2008, 04:33:27 PM
Is it a lie Eazy? Please look at Obama's website (I know you must frequent there often). Obama may not be a true Marxist, but when you have Marxists and Communists who see him as an enabler of their revolution, THAT'S A PROBLEM. Obama may have taken it off the website by now...which would be a smart move.
Keep making literal attacks and name-calling too. Use profanity if you will, but it doesn't help your argument any. In fact, it only further demonstrates your radicalism and literally cultish following for this man.
Stephen.
Thanks.
I think. ;)
Listen- the whole reason I felt the need to use profanity was to stress my point: what you posted insinuates that Obama is somehow a covert Marxist or Communist, simply because anyone-- EVEN A REPUBLICAN VOTER/OPERATIVE-- can go on his website and post whatever he wants.
Like I said, if i started a thread on McCain's where I said, "I hate black and poor people, and the only way to act on my feelings is to vote for the man whose policies most closely embody these ideas, and that is John McCain," would that make it true? NO
So, to insinuate, in a truly, horribly illiogically bad argument, that because some anonymous person posts something on the comments, and because the campaign does not use precious resources to edit those postings 24 hours a day, he somehow embodies and/or endorses those views is ridiculous and/or dishonest and/or plain dumb. And, I, for one, like so many Americans, are tired of these cheap, LYING, stupid, divise arguments that do nothing to address the real problems our country is facing.
So, again, I apologize for using profanity, but when someone spreads LIES and makes assertions that are plainly wrong and untruthful, I will stand up to them, particularly when it involves things I like, such as politics.
Amusing neocon corner.
Quote from: Eazy E on July 01, 2008, 04:45:08 PMListen- the whole reason I felt the need to use profanity was to stress my point: what you posted insinuates that Obama is somehow a covert Marxist or Communist, simply because anyone-- EVEN A REPUBLICAN VOTER/OPERATIVE-- can go on his website and post whatever he wants.
Like I said, if i started a thread on McCain's where I said, "I hate black and poor people, and the only way to act on my feelings is to vote for the man whose policies most closely embody these ideas, and that is John McCain," would that make it true? NO
So, to insinuate, in a truly, horribly illiogically bad argument, that because some anonymous person posts something on the comments, and because the campaign does not use precious resources to edit those postings 24 hours a day, he somehow embodies and/or endorses those views is ridiculous and/or dishonest and/or plain dumb. And, I, for one, like so many Americans, are tired of these cheap, LYING, stupid, divise arguments that do nothing to address the real problems our country is facing.
So, again, I apologize for using profanity, but when someone spreads LIES and makes assertions that are plainly wrong and untruthful, I will stand up to them, particularly when it involves things I like, such as politics.
Eazy, while somewhat derogatory, that last post was a much better presentation of your opinion, and a far better argument.
Unfortunately, we have no proof that the website blog was truly posted by Marxist party representatives or doctored by any opposition. For you to declare that the posts were placed by "Republican saboteurs" is nothing but conjecture. However, if Obama doesn't eliminate these posts from his website, it will only add to the rumor and innuendo of Obama's radicalism.
I think it is imperative for Obama to distance himself from things like this.
Interestingly, his prior pastor and church suscribe to black liberation theology, which is highly communist. This is also documented.
Uh, no.
On both counts.
Quote from: stephendare on July 02, 2008, 11:02:16 PM
Charleston, is this last statement from your years of membership in the Black Panthers?
stevie...i think YOU are the authority on Black Pantherdom...didn't you tell us where all the "whiteys" live? on the southside and ponte vedra, right?
......Georges Sorel, the French engineer turned intellectual, who pioneered the idea that the masses needed myths to be moved to action. Recognizing that Marxism, like all social science, rarely panned out in real life, Sorel married William James's will to believe to Nietzsche's will to power and applied them to mass psychology. Revolutionaries didn't need to understand the reality of Marxism; they didn't need to believe in the myth of Marxism (or nationalism, syndicalism, fascism, and so on). "To concern oneself with social science is one thing, and to mold consciousness is another", he wrote. Passion, not facts, was the fuel for action. "It is faith(change for change's sake, "yes we can") that moves mountains, not reason," Mussolini explained in a 1932 interview(echoing Woodrow Wilson's Leaders of Men). Reason is a tool but can never be the motive force of the crowd.
Jonah Goldberg, Liberal Fascism, p179
Zeev Sternhell, The Birth of Fascist Ideology: From Cultural Rebellion to Political Revolution, p.56
Jaxnative, (change for change's sake, "yes we can"), my addition
This is why I find it so difficult to vote Republican, even when they have a good candidate. So often, they take the 'multiplication by division' route. Let's appeal to people's fears, to their baser instincts, to their xenophopbia, let's make the man/woman the issue, instead of making the issues the issue. Let's believe even the most ridiculous of charges based on the weakest of evidence.
Granted there is viceral hate of W (just as there was of Clinton). But at least most of it, or at least most of it that is taken seriously, is based on his policies and decisions in office. No one tries to claim he was a KKK member, or a John Birch Society member, or a rascist or homophobe or sexist, or a fascist, or a nazi sympathizer, or a snake-handling religious nut.
I guess they will have to experience massive electoral defeat before they will learn they are playing a zero-sum game. Fortunately, that might not be too long from now.
Quote from: vicupstate on July 15, 2008, 09:28:05 PM
This is why I find it so difficult to vote Republican, even when they have a good candidate. So often, they take the 'multiplication by division' route. Let's appeal to people's fears, to their baser instincts, to their xenophopbia, let's make the man/woman the issue, instead of making the issues the issue. Let's believe even the most ridiculous of charges based on the weakest of evidence.
Actually, I vote Republican based on the issues. And, some this stuff is fluff. But, some of it has substance. You really can judge a person by their associations. Obama has made some very bad choices about mentors and associates. It really makes me question his judgment.
Quote
Granted there is viceral hate of W (just as there was of Clinton). But at least most of it, or at least most of it that is taken seriously, is based on his policies and decisions in office. No one tries to claim he was a KKK member, or a John Birch Society member, or a rascist or homophobe or sexist, or a fascist, or a nazi sympathizer, or a snake-handling religious nut.
Have you read any of the posts by your fellow liberal, StephenDare??
Quote
I guess they will have to experience massive electoral defeat before they will learn they are playing a zero-sum game. Fortunately, that might not be too long from now.
I dont know. The Dems have suffered electoral defeat after electoral defeat yet they keep nominating the same sorts of left wingers. See also Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, etc, etc...
Quote from: RiversideGator on July 16, 2008, 12:03:59 AM
This is why I find it so difficult to vote Republican, even when they have a good candidate. So often, they take the 'multiplication by division' route. Let's appeal to people's fears, to their baser instincts, to their xenophopbia, let's make the man/woman the issue, instead of making the issues the issue. Let's believe even the most ridiculous of charges based on the weakest of evidence.
Quote
Actually, I vote Republican based on the issues. And, some this stuff is fluff. But, some of it has substance. You really can judge a person by their associations. Obama has made some very bad choices about mentors and associates. It really makes me question his judgment.
I don't hear much about issues from the GOP, just nonsense about muslims, marxism, etc. I welcome such a discussion. As for associations, any elected official can be tied in some way to someone that is unsavory. McCain can be too. There is no evidence that Jeremiah Wright was anything other than a spiritual advisor. There is also no evidence that Obama subscribes to Wright's most rascist beliefs either.
Quote
Granted there is viceral hate of W (just as there was of Clinton). But at least most of it, or at least most of it that is taken seriously, is based on his policies and decisions in office. No one tries to claim he was a KKK member, or a John Birch Society member, or a rascist or homophobe or sexist, or a fascist, or a nazi sympathizer, or a snake-handling religious nut.
Quote
Have you read any of the posts by your fellow liberal, StephenDare??
I haven't seen him use any of those adjectives. Of course, I can't and don't read every post on here either. Feel free to quote Stephen's use of the above adjectives. Regardless, one person posting on a blog hardly compares to the right-wing propaganda/slander machine.
Quote
I guess they will have to experience massive electoral defeat before they will learn they are playing a zero-sum game. Fortunately, that might not be too long from now.
Quote
I dont know. The Dems have suffered electoral defeat after electoral defeat yet they keep nominating the same sorts of left wingers. See also Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, etc, etc...
The Dems have taken their lumps to be sure. Of course, Clinton did win twice and Gore won the popular vote, and quite possibly the electoral vote too, albeit it may have been stolen from him. No doubt, if everyone could re-vote knowing what they know now, Gore would have won in a landslide, and Kerry would have too.
If Obama takes a far left course, he will regret it. Hopefully, he will follow the middle of the road course that Clinton eventually did and achieve greatness.
Funny stuff. He's got a point about the mamby-pambies, though. ;)