Its weird posting my own name in the third person.
Starting tomorrow, (actually I got started Thursday last week) I will be going 30 days without a car, relying totally on JTA transit in order to move around the city. I will also be exploring the routes and seeing where they go and what they do.
Already the start has been rocky, and its clear that no one has ever had a discussion with many of the busdrivers as to what constitutes a customer friendly approach.
Anyways, get ready for a month of reports, whining, bitching complaining and insight on how to get around JTA.
First. Must make sense of this cobweb of wildly named bus routes.
They have an almost 0 correlation to any part of town that they go through.
Will begin with explanation tomorrow.
Holy crap! Good luck with that. Are you bringing a video camera with you and doing a documentary a la Morgan Spurlock?
I'm interested to know how the bus to the beach pulls over and collects additional fare from riders before crossing the Intracoastal. I heard this is how they operate but I have trouble picturing it.
What an awesome idea. Make sure you get some photos to go with this. The local "media" is so going to wish they would have thought of the idea. Good luck. :
Sounds like this is going to be an interesting experience. Btw, the $40 a month does sound great. I'm currently spending around $160 a week on gas for two vehicles.
Quoteor $20 less than you are spending on a week of gas.
Yeah. That does not even include the money spent for routine auto maintainance and insurance.
May God be with you Stephen. You'll be in my prayers.
Was it Shlitz or Schnapps?
This should be good... any chance of getting your experiences published in the TU or something?
Trolls know many things....
This will be very interesting....Good Luck!
My wife had recently decided that riding the bus would be a good idea as there is a straight shot from our house (in St Nick) to her work (at UNF).
The initial trial was supposed to be a bus ride home from a conference downtown... she showed up at the bus stop about 5 mins early. 45 minutes later still no bus, so she called someone to come pick her up. When she called to complain to JTA, the lady at customer service told her... "oh that bus was running late today".
The second test run was a morning bus ride to work...
So to start off, the "plan your trip" option on the website gives you directions to take the SS2, from Atlantic and San Souci what makes that interesting is that when you look up the SS2 it doesn't list this as a stop.... whatever, maybe I haven't figured out how to read their site or their maps yet (but I can easily use the public transit in cities like New York, Paris, London, San Francisco, Vancouver, & Seattle... and I don't need a secret decoder ring).
So, with the assurance of phone support that the plan your trip info was correct... my wife goes to the stop in the morning... a couple of minutes early again.... and she sees her bus ride right by her (and yes, she is standing right under the sign). This time phone support tells her... she did everything she was supposed to, and the driver should have stopped.
Luckily she doesn't have to rely on this, she walked back home and drove to work....
I think she is crazy when she says she is going to try again....
Quote from: stephendare on June 30, 2008, 02:14:24 PM
Quote from: Lunican on June 30, 2008, 02:13:20 PM
I'm interested to know how the bus to the beach pulls over and collects additional fare from riders before crossing the Intracoastal. I heard this is how they operate but I have trouble picturing it.
Its brutal and often involves threats of bodily assault, staredowns and lots of cop action. I will not be dealing with it, as I am using one of the 40 dollar month long passes, which gives you unlimited rides on all jta transit including the town to beach shakedown.
By the way.
The 40 MONTHLY PASS is an awesome deal for transportation.
17 per month in Austin.
If you have an iPhone you can blog on the bus. Also, Capmetro has WIFI on board some of the 983's already.
Wash your hands when you get off the bus or take that antibacteria hand sanitizer.
Get an iPhone or some other web enabled device. With the Internet available on a PDA, or cell phone getting the bus schedules is no big woop. Plus, with all the content you have, the news, MJ, Yahoo, etc., etc, you'll wonder why you ever drove in the 1st place...once you get your routes down.
Truly, Hell has no fury like a commuter with a lost 2 day old montly unlimted bus pass.
Still? You've got to be kidding. I compared the CapMetro site with JTA.net or whatever it is about 6 months ago and of course the sites were nothing alike. One was well thought out and planned the other just thrown together not unlike their "regularly scheduled" bus service.
Why don't you finish that trip up then go to another city and compare a real service for 30 days. Ha.
Quote from: stephendare on July 01, 2008, 01:59:02 PM
Day One so far.
Starting at Main Street, I took the Talleyrand bus straight into the central station. As I arrived there, the downtown trolley arrived almost simultaneously. I hopped on the azalea line (which is really just a dumb way of saying "The Trolley that circles East of Main Street" It took me straight to Hemming Park, where I disembarked, got coffee, dropped in all three points of the Bermuda Triangle of Downtown Gossip (The UPS Store, Starbucks and of course the Library Book Store)
Now comes the real trick.
Finding any useful bus stops once one is away from the central station.
First a few hard cold fact and observations:
No one who works or drives for JTA knows a damned thing about any other part of JTA.
Already this weekend I have had the distinctly unpleasant experience of announcing a perfectly reasonable destination like "Art Museum Drive" or "San Marco", only to be stared at as though I had murmered something dangerous that ended with "Allah Akhbar".
Simple asking a bus driver which bus one needs to take to get to a final destination is bound to be an experience where one sits while said busdrivers gaze moodily off into a distant land and the sound of square wheels clanking brokenly in a badly designed clockwork is distinctly heard.
Invariably a rushing river of non sequitors follows in which the destination is used variously as a noun, adjective and verb in assorted sentences before one of two things happens:
1. One is directed to a supervisor at the station (or alternately pointed in the direction of the website or customer service number)
2. One is left to stuff the compounded information in ones pipe and smoke it. Further questions will result in further obfuscations and sometimes the open interference and hostility of competing passenger theories, with the possibility that an argument will break out and one is left feeling part of a family melodrama.
Calling the customer assistance line is the best idea. Indeed it is probably the safest as well.
That number is 630-3100.
Which is great if you have a cell phone with unlimited minutes (i do.)
Second thing to be aware is the curious and damnable custom unique to jacksonville of NOT OFFERING TRANSFER SLIPS.
This is especially pernicious. ALL routes end downtown and if one is going from say, regency to UNF, one must necessarily go downtown and switch busses. For this little indignity one would be forced to pay an additional dollar.
Already in the course of the weekend, I have witnessed no fewer than 4 melodramas over this basic injustice. Each time with a newly energised first time user of JTA. In one case, I began to suspect that we were about to witness a case of self strangulation as the bus driver (a Vogon if ever there was one) happily explained to the power tie sporting 20 something that he would have to pay another fare if he wanted to ride the second half of his fare.
I suspect that this surprise mini lynching is going to lead to a lot more people carpooling.
In any case, I am able to stand above the fray as a result of the aforementioned monthly pass.
With it, I would never need a transfer. This does not however shield me from the anxiety caused by the absence of the small helpful sensible little tickets.
Allah ahkbar... :D
I tried to use the JTA Plan a Trip tool on their website yesterday and I about blew my brains out.
I am a web designer and from NYC... so between the two, I should have been able to figure it out. But I couldn't. It didn't recognize half of my destinations and the names of the lines make no freaking sense.
Right now it costs me about $4.75 per day in gas to drive to work and about a 15 - 20 minute trip.
I thought out of curiosity I would do a test to see how long it would take and how much it would cost me via public transportation.
I could never quite figure my route out from Emerson/Phillips to close to Baptist Medical Center by the Bartram Publix ... but the best I could guess was $2 each way... b/c of transferring... sweating my ass off in the Florida heat from a lot of walking ... and about 90 minutes each way ... if the bus even shows up.
If anyone can figure out the route... please enlighten me.
Gas would have to be like $10/gallon to justify that commute. Too bad we don't have a decent train system...
Anyway, interesting post and I'll be interested to hear how the 30 days goes...
JTA could solve the route planning problems for their riders by contacting Google and getting set up with their transit mapping system. http://www.google.com/transit
http://www.youtube.com/v/MngAUnhDDbg
Quote from: stephendare on July 01, 2008, 03:02:56 PM
steph elf. The Bartram publix? Is that the one by Old Atlantic and University?
It is on Old St. Augustine Road. There is the Publix Plaza. And then there is the Hospital, Applebee's & Starbucks. I work close to the hospital and Applebees. Right at 95 & St. Aug. Road
Quote from: stephendare link=topic=2629.msg28641#msg28641 date=1214943107
Now Im going to go have an attack of outrage over 95 not being a recognized street in Jacksonville.
/quote]
hahah. so basically it would prolly be a 2 hour commute each way to go 17 miles.... if there wasn't a transfer it wouldn't be so bad.
Doesn't it seems silly that every bus goes to and from downtown? .... If I could take a bus straight down phillips highway all the way to st. augustine road that would make SO much more sense. Then it might only be like 30 minutes total of walking and a 45 min bus ride or so... for 40 bucks a month that might be worth it since I could sit on the bus and read or something....
Maybe one of these days I will test it out for the heck of it... I'd have to leave my house at 7 am tho vs 8:45 to make sure I wasn't late for work.
Back in 2003 I lost my license for 90 days for wreckless driving (yes, yes, I was a bad, young driver). At the time I was living in NJ. My normal commute was 45 min driving. After I had no license, I had to get dropped off at the train, then take the train into Newark, then switch onto a bus to Moonachie and then walk for about 5 - 10 minutes. It was 2.5 hours each way ... also being approached on a regular basis by some real characters. The bus was far worse then the train. That was a learning experience....
Thanks for looking up the route! ;D
So I looked at the R5 and the L7 bus schedules on the JTA website... neither one mention Emerson & Phillips
or St. Aug Road.
That is why their website stinks.
How much money do the tax payers pay to support JTA? Does anybody got a number? Must be lowest in the nation with service like this, or is it highest in the nation with this "great" service?
You can take a bus down Univ. then back up, like a big U turn and use up 2 more fares. Gezz.
Quote from: stephendare on July 01, 2008, 04:49:10 PM
L7, the route on www.jtafla.com
http://jtafla.com/services/lines/l7/l7.aspx
So If I am reading that correctly ... those are the stops right? There are 6?
I see phillips & university.. but no phillips & emerson ... I know for a fact there are 2 bus stops on emerson by the taco bell & mcdonalds (in between phillips and 95 - on emerson) ...
This stuff is just so non-user-friendly... seriously, after this, I feel bad for and am amazed by the people who actually NEED to ride the bus can freakin figure it out. They must spend 4 hours of their day on the damn bus.
Quote
I see phillips & university.. but no phillips & emerson ... I know for a fact there are 2 bus stops on emerson by the taco bell & mcdonalds (in between phillips and 95 - on emerson) ...
StephElf - I have/had a similar problem with the L9 route. I used to live off of Touchton between Southside and Belfort, and there were no less than three signs for stops along that road. However, there were no listed stops on the JTA site (as of a couple of months ago - wouldn't doubt that they're still not listed as part of the route-proper). So, the fact that those two stops on Emerson you mentioned for the L7 route that aren't listed on the JTA site surprises me not in the least.
I agree with the other posters that the JTA site is uber-wretched. Can't JTA hire someone or some firm to do a better website? The site they have now isn't even good enough to be derided as 'amateur'.
Quote from: stephendare on July 01, 2008, 04:54:13 PM
The ways of the JTA are mysterious and epic.
Gate Parkway West has been open to through-traffic for quite some time now. A lot of new residential development (mid-density, I might add) has sprouted up along that thoroughfare. Definitely much more ridership potential along that stretch than any I've ever seen along Touchton, down which the L9 route now travels. I won't hold my breath for those residents to get their own route or for L9 to shift south.
Quote
http://www.jtafla.com/services/lines/l9/l9.aspx
<Slaps forehead> D'OH!!
Quote from: stephendare on June 30, 2008, 01:55:42 PM
Its weird posting my own name in the third person.
Starting tomorrow, (actually I got started Thursday last week) I will be going 30 days without a car, relying totally on JTA transit in order to move around the city. I will also be exploring the routes and seeing where they go and what they do.
Already the start has been rocky, and its clear that no one has ever had a discussion with many of the busdrivers as to what constitutes a customer friendly approach.
Anyways, get ready for a month of reports, whining, bitching complaining and insight on how to get around JTA.
First. Must make sense of this cobweb of wildly named bus routes.
They have an almost 0 correlation to any part of town that they go through.
Will begin with explanation tomorrow.
I don't believe you are really about to attempt this!!! Ill think you'll back in your car by the 12th.
Steph: if you are riding JTA you will first want to invest in a good pair of walkers. And not having to be on time might be a good thing to work out with you boss, family friends and your church trust me.
QuoteSteph: if you are riding JTA you will first want to invest in a good pair of walkers. And not having to be on time might be a good thing to work out with you boss, family friends and your church trust me.
I agree with gator. I have yet to hear a single good thing about the buses or bus drivers. I used to work with college students who had to ride the bus here and many of them were often late or absent to classes. Their reason? Buses showing up late or not showing up at all. The buses constantly break down. The drivers are often rude or extremely uninformed. And as you guys have already pointed out, their website is a joke!
As far as the website goes...they have a survey...lol. And you can email the web admin though I'm not sure what good that'll do. JTA needs a complete overhaul. Oil is predicted to hit $170 a barrel by next year. IF that happens you're going to see a lot of very pissed off and frustrated people trying to make sense of their website and trying to do something as simple as get from point A to point B and having a horrible time doing it.
Peyton should have to ride the bus.
Quote from: gatorback on July 01, 2008, 06:36:03 PM
Steph: if you are riding JTA you will first want to invest in a good pair of walkers. And not having to be on time might be a good thing to work out with you boss, family friends and your church trust me.
Good point. Most bosses can forgive an employee being late on occasion but very few will tolerate a pattern of tardiness which appears to be what people may be setting themselves up for when using the bus to get to work. Mass transit MUST be reliable and consistantly on time for it to work.
Perhaps this is one of the reasons our bus system is not seeing significant increases in ridership, due to higher gas prices, like most systems in major cities are enjoying. Sounds like another reason that makes rail more desirable and another point to exposing the foolishness of moving forward with bus rapid transit here.
Oh god. That's horrible. I have no response to that other then "Damn".
The Green Line in Boston will let you ride free if you don't have your money ready just so they can stay on schedule.
If they are running late they don't collect fare from anyone. I'm not sure if that's their official policy but it happens every time I'm there.
Holy crap! This makes so much sense now. Those JTA drivers really ARE buttwipes. And to think, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt everytime they drove their buses up my arse when riding my bike...not to mention when they drive in the bike lane 300 yards before their designated stop.
Maybe I'm just a trouble maker, but I wouldn't have gotten off the bus. Just think, if it got bad then it would've been all over the news and JTA's complete incompetence would've been exposed for the whole city to see.
We at the JTA are very interested in following Stephen's "adventure." In fact, we have talked about getting together during this period and after its conclusion to discuss some of his discoveries and observations. We are constantly looking for ways to improve our service and having someone like Stephen ride the system for a mointh straight and log his observations can be very beneficial for everyone. By the way, to Lunican's posting, I don't know where he got that! The JTA does not [b] stop the bus and charge an additional fare to cross the intracoastal. Think about it logically for a moment. Could you imagine how long it would take to stop a bus, walk up and down the aisle, and require everyone to pay again? Not only that, but it is our policy that operators not handle or carry any cash (security reasons, of course). That's why we require exact change. One note to Stephen's first day, if you recall, you said that you were going to pick up your pass on Monday. That was July 1st! You asked about a monthly pass for the month of JULY. That doesn't mean June 30th. C'mon, Stephen, be fair here!
Wow...kudos for not flipping out. I wish I could say that it's uncommon behavior for JTA drivers but it's not. :( Are you planning on calling and filing a compliant?
QuotePerhaps this is one of the reasons our bus system is not seeing significant increases in ridership...
I think so. I think that people would rather carpool, walk, bike etc. than have to deal with stuff like that. All it takes is once to leave a sour taste in your mouth and then bam, no one wants to ride. It's not bad enough that the buses run late or even at all or that it's hot out or even that you have to ride in some shady areas but the driver should be the least of one's worries. I know they have to put up with a lot of stuff from passengers but this is ridiculous. Him being difficult about giving his name proves he knew he was in the wrong. he probably didn't expect you to challenge him.
Again, with the problems so varied and numerous,
if anyone from the city is reading this: take a surprise ride on your own public transportation. See what you're missing.
This kind of stuff should be on the news. I wish you had a video log of the incident. Morgan Spurlock would eat this stuff up.
Quote from: gatorback on July 01, 2008, 06:36:03 PM
Steph: if you are riding JTA you will first want to invest in a good pair of walkers. And not having to be on time might be a good thing to work out with you boss, family friends and your church trust me.
as the saying goes...."what time does the 3 o'clock bus show up?....3:15, duh!"
Thanks for clearing up the process for additional fare collection over the intracoastal Mike. I did think about it logically and that's why I was concerned about what I had heard. Glad to hear it's not true.
from my experience in cities like NY & Chicago the bus drivers are a bit strict on the exact change rule. In New York of course, they kicked me off the bus and told me to get correct change and wait for the next.
In Seattle the particular bus I rode was a bit more forgiving, he just took the extra .50.
I've never quite understood the exact change rule either, if i'm willing to pay an extra .50 just so I can keep the flow going, what's the problem?
Quote from: mikemiller on July 02, 2008, 09:52:53 AM
We at the JTA are very interested in following Stephen's "adventure." In fact, we have talked about getting together during this period and after its conclusion to discuss some of his discoveries and observations. We are constantly looking for ways to improve our service and having someone like Stephen ride the system for a mointh straight and log his observations can be very beneficial for everyone. By the way, to Lunican's posting, I don't know where he got that! The JTA does not [b] stop the bus and charge an additional fare to cross the intracoastal. Think about it logically for a moment. Could you imagine how long it would take to stop a bus, walk up and down the aisle, and require everyone to pay again? Not only that, but it is our policy that operators not handle or carry any cash (security reasons, of course). That's why we require exact change. One note to Stephen's first day, if you recall, you said that you were going to pick up your pass on Monday. That was July 1st! You asked about a monthly pass for the month of JULY. That doesn't mean June 30th. C'mon, Stephen, be fair here!
Welcome to the forum! Glad to see you will be following along. Though it may be hard to see at times... most folks here are interested in improving the system rather than bashing it.
This is one of the best things I have read here.
Creative Loafing in ATL did a similar experiment a few years ago, using only MARTA busses, not the trains, and if I recall correctly, same results as SD is having.
:D We can only wish you the best of luck... :D
The amazing thing is you seem surprised that the JTA system is ineptly run and designed. Anytime something is run by government it is run poorly and has bad customer service. This is so common (although not universal) that it should be considered akin to a law of nature. And to think you Obama people want this same bunch to control and ration life saving and life sustaining health care. ::)
Quote from: RiversideGator on July 02, 2008, 04:36:53 PM
The amazing thing is you seem surprised that the JTA system is ineptly run and designed. Anytime something is run by government it is run poorly and has bad customer service. This is so common (although not universal) that it should be considered akin to a law of nature. And to think you Obama people want this same bunch to control and ration life saving and life sustaining health care. ::)
Yeah, because the insurance system right now is run
SO incredibley efficient, right?
God, this argument makes me sick-- people act like our current system is so infallible, when, in fact, it's anything but. But, why try something new, might as well stick with the current, crappy-beyond-belief system, right?
Quote from: Eazy E on July 02, 2008, 04:50:59 PM
Quote from: RiversideGator on July 02, 2008, 04:36:53 PM
The amazing thing is you seem surprised that the JTA system is ineptly run and designed. Anytime something is run by government it is run poorly and has bad customer service. This is so common (although not universal) that it should be considered akin to a law of nature. And to think you Obama people want this same bunch to control and ration life saving and life sustaining health care. ::)
Yeah, because the insurance system right now is run SO incredibley efficient, right?
God, this argument makes me sick-- people act like our current system is so infallible, when, in fact, it's anything but. But, why try something new, might as well stick with the current, crappy-beyond-belief system, right?
way to know how to use html tags, dork.
Quote from: Eazy E on July 02, 2008, 04:57:58 PM
Quote from: Eazy E on July 02, 2008, 04:50:59 PM
Quote from: RiversideGator on July 02, 2008, 04:36:53 PM
The amazing thing is you seem surprised that the JTA system is ineptly run and designed. Anytime something is run by government it is run poorly and has bad customer service. This is so common (although not universal) that it should be considered akin to a law of nature. And to think you Obama people want this same bunch to control and ration life saving and life sustaining health care. ::)
Yeah, because the insurance system right now is run SO incredibley efficient, right?
God, this argument makes me sick-- people act like our current system is so infallible, when, in fact, it's anything but. But, why try something new, might as well stick with the current, crappy-beyond-belief system, right?
way to know how to use html tags, dork.
and, before anyone blows a gasket, that dork is ME, in case you missed it.
Quote from: Eazy E on July 02, 2008, 04:50:59 PM
Quote from: RiversideGator on July 02, 2008, 04:36:53 PM
The amazing thing is you seem surprised that the JTA system is ineptly run and designed. Anytime something is run by government it is run poorly and has bad customer service. This is so common (although not universal) that it should be considered akin to a law of nature. And to think you Obama people want this same bunch to control and ration life saving and life sustaining health care. ::)
Yeah, because the insurance system right now is run SO incredibley efficient, right?
God, this argument makes me sick-- people act like our current system is so infallible, when, in fact, it's anything but. But, why try something new, might as well stick with the current, crappy-beyond-belief system, right?
No system devised by man will be perfect, but if you want to see real incompetence and inefficiency let the government run it.
Anyway, I am sorry I interjected this. I dont want to threadjack Stephen's JTA thread with a debate on government run health care.
Quote from: RiversideGator on July 02, 2008, 04:36:53 PM
The amazing thing is you seem surprised that the JTA system is ineptly run and designed. Anytime something is run by government it is run poorly and has bad customer service. This is so common (although not universal) that it should be considered akin to a law of nature. And to think you Obama people want this same bunch to control and ration life saving and life sustaining health care. ::)
If the fine folks in Ponte Vedra used the JTA to get around, the problems described in this thread would disappear virtually overnight. Trust me. It is only because the least resourceful and powerful among us use the system that these problems persist.
Quote from: RiversideGator on July 02, 2008, 04:36:53 PM
The amazing thing is you seem surprised that the JTA system is ineptly run and designed. Anytime something is run by government it is run poorly and has bad customer service. This is so common (although not universal) that it should be considered akin to a law of nature. And to think you Obama people want this same bunch to control and ration life saving and life sustaining health care. ::)
I think NASA, and NOAA run great(See Mars Landers). And locally, JEA is 120% well managed.
Yeah, but those are the exceptions that prove the rule.
And you could prove the rule even more by citing more exceptions!
Quote from: Lunican on July 02, 2008, 09:41:52 AM
The Green Line in Boston will let you ride free if you don't have your money ready just so they can stay on schedule.
If they are running late they don't collect fare from anyone. I'm not sure if that's their official policy but it happens every time I'm there.
Not only that, but the outbound, above-ground trains are free!
HA HA HA HA Stephen, YOU are in for an adventure. EVERYTHING you have said so far mirrors my experiences as a JTA commuter in 1984...NOTHING has changed! WOW!
OH GUYS! Good wife Libby and Eldest daughter popped in this morning when I was down in the dumps over the computer mess and gave me a brand new LapTop. So watch out JAX. He's Bacccck! Hee Hee
Ocklawaha
Quote from: David on July 02, 2008, 10:07:26 AM
from my experience in cities like NY & Chicago the bus drivers are a bit strict on the exact change rule. In New York of course, they kicked me off the bus and told me to get correct change and wait for the next.
In Seattle the particular bus I rode was a bit more forgiving, he just took the extra .50.
I've never quite understood the exact change rule either, if i'm willing to pay an extra .50 just so I can keep the flow going, what's the problem?
When I was in college in Boston, the drivers there would let me slide if I was short. (I have seen the Riverside trolley drivers drop in extra change to make someone's fare if they didn't have enough.) Both in Boston and here, they'll gladly take more than the posted fare; the passenger just needs to meet the minimum.
I just ran 100 steps to catch the 100 flyer to the airport. I was 30 seconds late but the driver stopped thank god.
Quote from: stephendare on July 02, 2008, 08:29:35 AM
Day T-2 (the saturday before the official 30 days)
The JTA shenanigans are a little too egregious to deal with.
There are only two conclusions to be drawn from today's first experience. Either something is seriously wrong with me, or JTA is hiring their bus drivers solely from a pool of ex corrections officers, who largely need psychiatric attention.
From the shady corner of 6th and Main, I caught the E5.
After brutally offending the bus driver with a question so insulting that I felt lucky to have escaped a public flogging----, i.e. "How close do you get to Forsythe and Main?", I fumbled for the newfound wonder of my 40 dollar Month Pass.
"Here is my pass" I flashed it at him, hoping perhaps to curry back the favor I had already lost with my first question.
"You have to swipe it." he said rolling his eyes.
This was a bit of a surprise. No one had really mentioned swiping the damned thing. I looked around for somewhere to do the swiping. There is a little hotel door key looking slot thing on the pay tower.
"There?"
The Busdriver, and it was not my imagination, began staring holes through me, in an attempt to drill straight through my heathen soul. He waited until I got the card completely out of its little plastic protector and was about to attempt my first swipe.
"Is it July 1?" he asked venomously.
"No?" I responded wondering what the combination of venom and date question was about.
"Then why are you trying to use that pass?"
"Well I picked up the pass yesterday and they said it would be good for the busses" Looking down at the pass, I did notice that the word 'July' was printed on it large as life.
"You cannot use that pass and they didnt tell you it would be good."
This last line was delivered in such a way as to question either my competence or manhood. I decided to ignore it.
"Well what do I do?"
Apparently cash was the only option. I grubbed around in pocket, produced bills, managed about 70 bucks in 10s and 20s.
"All I have is 10s and 20s, do you have change?"
"No."
I looked around imploringly at the, by now riveted, passengers. With no disrespect, none of the people on the bus were likely to have change for a 10, except one pleasant woman near the front. She didnt.
The bus slammed to a wrenching sudden stop, nearly catapulting me into the windshield and causing the pleasant looking woman to grab a panic bar to keep in her seat.
"Sir you will have to get off the bus."
This seemed a little unreasonable to me, and I interjected. Look, I obviously have a 40 dollar month pass and plenty of cash, its clear Im not trying to defraud the JTA of a hard earned dollar. Cant I just stay on until we get to the station?
Silence. The driver opened the bus door.
By now the bus had travelled to the east side of springfield down 1st street. On a Saturday Morning, there isnt an open business to get change for what seems like miles. The bus driver knew this. Dropping me off so far from civilization was a deliberate fuck you.
So I asked him his name.
"What do you need my name for?!"
Just curious.
"You don't need my name.!"
"Actually you are supposed to give me your name" I peered around to look at his badge. He manuevered his body so that I would have had to climb into his lap to see it.
"What do you need it for, then I'll tell you my name"
"Well actually Im going to make a voodoo doll for the JTA, and it helps during the burning ceremony if I can chant your name over it."
Clearly he knew a smartass when he saw one. (By now the pleasant looking woman was shaking her head ruefully)
"You tell whoever you want to. My name is (unintelligible) Brinson."
I got off and walked the additional 12 or so blocks, cursing the name of JTA to the skies.
I wonder how many people have had a similar experience where the customer loyalty or positive experience was tossed to the maws of the transit hellhounds for the sake of that stupid dollar?
Wow man!! you are really going though with it huh?? Id have to say stephens story is credible. I have seen this a couple times when I use to ride the R5 to UNF. Them buseys look like ex wrestlers even some of the chicks, and they expect everyone to know where they are going and what they are doing. JTA bus drivers don't like questions.
Stephen man you have to be a lil more aggressive. Everyone hates the rider that doesn't know anything. ESPECIALLY the drivers!!! You bought the card, it has a black strip on it like an ATM or credit card you'd have to know it has to be swiped somewhere man lol.
Learn one route at a time. Shit you probably could learn 5 in a day if your off work and have the time. Don't act like an airhead on the bus man. You don't want anyone trying to follow you home.
Why did your July card not work in July again??
Quote from: stephendare on July 02, 2008, 09:46:46 AM
The Skyway, incidentally is a smooth piece of work for downtown. I hopped on the skyway at Hemming Plaza using the 40 dollar monthly pass (there is a swiper at the turnstyle.) and was able to make the turnstyle work for the first time in months.
I was so intrigued by this, that I stepped back out and dropped 50 cents in to see if that worked as well.
It didnt. Strange.
HA HA HA HA HA HA man you have to use exit turnstyle on the left. The one closest to the library it is broken and swings both directions. Something is jammed in the coin machine your change is not making it to the coin box. That bum that was sitting near the bench went to the machine and sucked the coins out with this plastic looking thing. Don't believe sit around and watch. Incredible.
Quote from: vicupstate on July 02, 2008, 06:00:48 PM
Quote from: RiversideGator on July 02, 2008, 04:36:53 PM
The amazing thing is you seem surprised that the JTA system is ineptly run and designed. Anytime something is run by government it is run poorly and has bad customer service. This is so common (although not universal) that it should be considered akin to a law of nature. And to think you Obama people want this same bunch to control and ration life saving and life sustaining health care. ::)
If the fine folks in Ponte Vedra used the JTA to get around, the problems described in this thread would disappear virtually overnight. Trust me. It is only because the least resourceful and powerful among us use the system that these problems persist.
Valid......sad but valid.
Quote from: JaxNole on July 02, 2008, 09:40:18 PM
When I was in college in Boston, the drivers there would let me slide if I was short. (I have seen the Riverside trolley drivers drop in extra change to make someone's fare if they didn't have enough.) Both in Boston and here, they'll gladly take more than the posted fare; the passenger just needs to meet the minimum.
Oh they will? I can't say from experience, i've never taken a bus in jax.
I have this thing about getting where i'm going in under an hour......
That's really all it is with JTA, it takes too long. What about sub-hubs? You know, a place on the southside or westside, that does transfers for all points south or west instead of having to go downtown for everything. Going 5 miles the opposite way to go 15 miles back the way you came just doesn't work.
Quote from: David on July 03, 2008, 12:54:27 AM
Quote from: JaxNole on July 02, 2008, 09:40:18 PM
When I was in college in Boston, the drivers there would let me slide if I was short. (I have seen the Riverside trolley drivers drop in extra change to make someone's fare if they didn't have enough.) Both in Boston and here, they'll gladly take more than the posted fare; the passenger just needs to meet the minimum.
Oh they will? I can't say from experience, i've never taken a bus in jax.
Yeah, last week, when coming back from The Landing on the Trolley, I didn't have change, but a dollar bill. Since I didn't want to waste $0.50, I told the driver I was paying for the passenger behind me and he waved both of us on after I inserted my bill.
I think this thread is great. I agree with a previous post that recommends learning a route before riding. Ever ride the MTA in NYC without looking at a system map? The MBTA in Boston has system maps at its major stops, but not all and good luck finding a bus route map at a stop.
JTA has room to improve in terms of boosting ridership with too many deficient items to list, but riding without knowing a route is worse than driving in an unfamiliar city without a map or GPS.
QuoteI walked further down, with bus anxiety gripping my colon.
:D I have enjoyed the humor so far... What if you need to you use a bathroom in your travels??:D
Can't do it Stephen, those busstops in the core are reserved for sleeping and drinking, there is a waiting list, and if you go to 7th E there is the nightly crack line waiting to use the covered stops, not sure why crack smokers need a cover, but there you have it....gotta take the bus before midnight.
Quote from: RiversideGator on July 02, 2008, 05:15:04 PM
Quote from: Eazy E on July 02, 2008, 04:50:59 PM
Quote from: RiversideGator on July 02, 2008, 04:36:53 PM
No system devised by man will be perfect, but if you want to see real incompetence and inefficiency let the government run it.
Anyway, I am sorry I interjected this. I dont want to threadjack Stephen's JTA thread with a debate on government run health care.
No, if you want to see real incompetence and inefficiency try applying for health care in the U.S., or, if you have health insurance, seeing a doctor. Then you'll see a poorly run health care system, plagued by inefficiency and incompetence. But, I agree, I will leave your obviously invalid argument for another time, as the JTA issue is really interesting and important.
Quote from: stephendare on July 03, 2008, 12:56:52 PM
Quote from: Downtown Dweller on July 03, 2008, 12:19:58 PM
Can't do it Stephen, those busstops in the core are reserved for sleeping and drinking, there is a waiting list, and if you go to 7th E there is the nightly crack line waiting to use the covered stops, not sure why crack smokers need a cover, but there you have it....gotta take the bus before midnight.
Lol. Lets see those guys compete with drunk springfielders.
I cant see that having but one or two outcomes.
You have a very valid point there ;D
Quote from: Midway on July 02, 2008, 08:44:41 PM
Yeah, but those are the exceptions that prove the rule.
And you could prove the rule even more by citing more exceptions!
Just so you know, I am not responding to this post to avoid moving this thread off topic.
Stephen, your thread might be made more useful to lending a hand to JTA and the City with more detail on route, equipment, schedule, loads etc. Some short notation would do, IE:
Boarded at SW corner of Hendricks and Atlantic...
Bus XXXX
one of the new Gillig coaches *name usually on the front, or inside, otherwise the driver can give details.
4 other passengers
8:17 pm
Eastbound
Observed: No seat, no shelter, no map, no schdedule, considerable complaining from group.
In passing Observed: Exceptional busy stop in the mud at XXX and XXX again no shelter, 3rd time this stop has been packed.
Narration
Boarded Bus XX
Corner of 3rd and Atlantic in Neptune Beach
7:am
Westbound
very crowded condition, semi professional crowd
Older Flexible Coach, windows rattled badly, poor seating
Narration
Just an idea, but as a Transit guy, this info would be damn valuable. Short sweet and detailed as hell.
Keep up the great work.
Ocklawaha
Gotta love those Unlimited cards!!!! Stephan the San Marco Station & Central Station has some cool points of interest. If want a LAME STATION go to Jefferson Station errrr Ghosttown Station!!! Man they can't even pave the lots. I agree and have been saying this for 6 months. THE SKYWAY NEEDS TO BE EXTENDED TO SAN MARCO SQUARE & Near 5 points.........
This is obviously a sham system that is specifically tailored to only attract poor people as customers. the JTA knows that their riders have zero political clout, so they can run as shabby a system as they want to, because the customers have no way to complain.
It's not really a transit system, it is just a cardboard front that appears to be a transit system. it's real purpose is to supply great paying jobs to the top executives at JTA and provide the Mayor an "Authority" structure to manipulate funds.
It's really not about transit at all, it's all about money. Unfortunately, turning the JTA into a real transit system would be at cross purposes with it's present actual mission. The transformation of The JTA into a "real" urban transit system would require hiring people who are actually qualified it that field, and spending money on real tangible improvements. Doing this would drain off all of that invisible money that now just falls into a black hole and disappears.
So, this transformation is unlikely to occur, because things are just too good for too many JTA execs right now.
I have raised this issue before, but apparently no one is able to understand: the people who run JTA have ZERO qualifications (except working for JTA) in the field of mass transit (I guess that's JTA OJT). That might be part of the problem.
Compare the JTA to ANY urban mass transit system, and it comes out as just plain silly.
What happened to Mike from JTA? I'd like to hear his take on Midway's good points and Stephen's latest experience over the holiday.
Blaylock only wants to speak to issues involving validity of July busspasses in June.
From the JTA website:
QuoteBlaylock's professional credentials include: Vice chairman of the Strategic Planning Advisory Committee for the Florida Department of Transportation; Member of the Intelligent Transportation Society of America; former president of the Florida Public Transportation Association (FPTA-'96) and graduate of Leadership Jacksonville and Leadership Florida. His community involvement includes: Jacksonville Super Bowl 2005 Host Committee Member; President of the Jacksonville Chapter of the Conference of Minority Transportation Officials (COMTO); Board member of the Regional Chamber of Commerce; Board member of the Jacksonville Urban League; Advisory Board member of the Center for Urban Transportation Research (CUTR) and Board of Trustee member for Bethel Baptist Institutional Church.
A native of Jacksonville, Michael and his wife, Patricia, have three sons and one daughter. He received his Bachelors Degree in Public Administration with a minor in business from the University of North Florida. He continued his graduate studies at the University of North Florida as well as professional development training at the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee.
While no disrespect is intended, these are not the credentials of someone who should be leading a mass transit system in a major city.
Compare this to NYC, San Diego, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Boston, Moscow, Tokyo, ANYWHERE. The only parity you will find is probably the payrate. I'm sure he's a real good guy. Just like Brad Thoburn.
The whole system needs an overhaul or a buyout (worth 3 billion?) - will gas still on the rise ($4.13 last I looked) and mass transit looking better and better...who knows?
In defense of JTA, this "Authority" is a product of our own making. Frankly, the old south lives on in transit throughout Dixie. It is only recently with MARTA (ATLANTA), DART (DALLAS), HART (TAMPA), etc... that this old model is being broken down. Charlotte, for example is making great strides, is is Houston, Norfolk, Little Rock, Memphis and New Orleans. But it all started with ATLANTA and MIAMI back in the 1960-70 era. We have been extremely slow to pick up on ANYTHING new, NOTHING! Don't tell us how it's done, go away with your ideas, and if your a Yuppie or Modernist/Urban dweller - BE DAMNED! Into this world JTA was born. Don't expect Puppies from a mated pair of Jackasses.
In defense of Blaylock, frankly, his resume and mine wouldn't look all that different. I would have a lead in jobs and companies/Cities/Country's worked for... He would lead in associations. This alone won't make or break a big city planner. Many of the most radical plans came from those with no formal education at all in the 1960-70's. A time when they worked their way up from Bus Porter, to driver, to supervisor, to front office. It was the very "HANDS ON" experience that made that generation of Transit Leadership so rich. It should be recalled that a MA or PHD proves that a man or woman can study. Leadership is often born in far away deserts, or rice Paddy's, where high school boys and young college men make split life and death decisions. Many times those very decisions are transportation related. The proof is in the bottle, lots of fizz and no kick = low performance.
Finally, the board of directors and our JTA planners are where the rubber meets the road. The directors are picked for political reasons, favors, and "title". Few if any are Transit people. We would do better to rule by committee, have citizen input and allow the planners to review and refine before a City Council rubber stamps it. Lead on Stephendare, Good luck... Take names, notes and we'll kick some butt!
Ocklawaha
Damn it! She did it to me again, that message above should be from Ocklawaha. My daughter logged in over my login.
Ocklawaha
Quote from: stephendare on July 06, 2008, 12:34:15 PM
Thanks Ock!
Was seriously put out by this 'sunday special'.
Its useless. Ornamental.
Hopefully monday will be better.
Today is sunday and I will be checking out the southside routes some more.
Even ornaments are supposed to help something look better... this is worse than ornamental...
Ocklawaha, I don't think that PhD's matter here. And I also don't think association memberships matter here.
What matters is experience, creativity and a willingness to look at other innovative solutions. Also, some interest in urban transit to add a dash of enthusiasm might help.
Blaylock just looks like a garden variety beancounter/administrator based upon the materials on the JTA website.
Any transit specific skills look like they were picked up as an unavoidable liability of working at JTA and not as a result of any enthusiasm for the process or technology.
The essential difference between his resume and yours is that yours bespeaks exposure to types of solutions other than highway based transit. JTA appears to be a road building enterprise. Maybe they should be renamed the Jacksonville Expressway Authority, then JAX could start anew with an urban (mass) transit authority that would look at those issues?
Quote from: stephendare on July 05, 2008, 11:53:45 AM
Unannounced, the entire damned Skyway System was shuttered and closed down. No signs, no notice, no nothing. You just walk up to the gates of the stations and surmise for yourself that they bloody operation is nixed for the day.
First off, this is bloody stupid. The Skyway, if it does ANYTHING, at least services the river line on the Southbank of the St. Johns and commands a brilliant view of the River. There were thousands and thousands of southbank people who would have found this service invaluable yesterday and last night.
Closing the skyway was such a stupid idea, I don't think there is a word in english that adequately explores the depths of stupid embodied by this one incredibly mindless prank.
Additionally, the JTA chooses six holidays in order to run what they call "Sunday Service" which means, "Public transit?....meh." Routes run once every one or two hours and the whole clown show takes off its oversized shoes and stinks up the place before 11pm.
Way to go, JTA. Make yourself as useless as possible on one of the few days of the year that the public might give you a chance to show you arent completely without merit.
Why would it actually close down its skyway services in the ONE area of town GUARANTEED to need thousands of parking spaces and a little transit to the riverwalk?
Sheer, mindless, blistering stupidity.
So. Skyway? closed. Trolleys? off. Buses? half service and geritol class closing hours.
No wonder the downtown is so bloody dead on Sundays.
GOSPEL!!! PREACH THAT SHIT MAN!!! STEPHAN I FEEL YOU ON THIS ONE!!! JTA NEEDS TO STOP DOING THAT SHIT!! OMG!!! THE 4TH WAS ON A FRIDAY!!! NOT SUNDAY!!! TURTLES WALK BACKWARDS!!!! WHY DOES METROPOLIS'S BODY HAVE SMALLVILLE'S BRAIN??? I HAD TO LEARN ABOUT THAT STUPID SUNDAY THING THE HARD WAY ON A SUNDAY...BUT YOU HAD TO LEARN THE SUNDAY SICKNESS ON A FRIDAY?? WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!
Hello Stephendare, Hope I've got Mikes attention. Check out my blog at
http://jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/
scroll down the left column and ask yourselves WHY JTA IS NOT part of the NEXT BUS TOOL?
Mike, here is a chance to lead, everybody in town has a computer, laptop or blackberry so why not allow our buses to talk to them right where they are?
Check out the NEXT BUS WIDGET TOOL. there are a couple more similar sites but this one is more USA centered.
Ocklawaha
JTA Skyway
The Skyway is another convenient way to travel to your downtown destinations.
Hours
July 1-3: 6 a.m. - 11 p.m.
July 4: 6 p.m. - Midnight
July 5: 10 a.m. - 11 p.m.
It says at coj.net that the Skyway was to run from 6pm to 12 am on the 4th??? What time were you trying to get on Stephan??
I'm wondering why this would be put on a website and the Skyway was actually shut down.
Ocklawaha, didn't that line down US17 have 2 rails on it years ago, and CSX decided to save some money by getting removing them? Couldn't we just put our commuter rail? How much would that cost to add back the second rail for us?
QuoteOcklawaha, didn't that line down US17 have 2 rails on it years ago, and CSX decided to save some money by getting removing them? Couldn't we just put our commuter rail? How much would that cost to add back the second rail for us?
Yes, though I'd call it a second track...in hopes all track have a second rail...LOL (just pulling your chain) The old Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Mainline from Richmond to YUKON was all double track. The second track came up and the signals were changed in the 1960's prior to the merger with the Seaboard Air Line Railroad. One should remember not to fault the railroads too much on this note as the high tech signals gave more capacity to a single track railroad with passing sidings then the old double track. The right of way is there today, and was never really dug up, the curves were lowered as freight became more common then passengers. Otherwise, yes for about $4 Million a mile, new track could go on a ready line like this. QuoteOck, I am going to take your advice and include the details for the transit folks. Would it be better at the beginning or end of the essays? Also is there any other information that would be useful?
Equipment type... make and age (if you can choke it out of the driver)
Faults... bad doors, window rattle, loose seats etc.
Engine...Quiet, smokey etc.
Crowd and Hour... Surfers, Geeks, professionals
Any consistantly busy stops, include any that SHOULD have shelter, maps, signs etc. (I know they all should but being real here, lets try and help ID the ones JTA missed)
driver name
any rude driver gets his name in shame on your post.
Missed connections, where the driver waits for the guy to get to the door and laughs as he pulls away.
DETAILS DETAILS DETAILS
Oh and don't forget the buses running on retreads that are stamped MAX SPEED 35 MPH, tooling along at 60 down Roosevelt.
Your gonig to do this City and JTA a HUGE service Stephendare. IF Mike reads this, I'll challenge him to GIVE you, myself, Lake and any other volunteers a month pass and a notebook, and we'll show em what we can do. Ocklawaha
Look at the sidewalls of the tires, you'll see obvious signs. For example the words Goodyear but only the bottom half of the words are visible. Then there is this extra rubber/black layer from Midwall around the tire to the other side midwall. Bottom line, look for half words on the old tire, and new stamping on the new part that say MAX SPEED XXX. Very interesting if you can get a photo. Illegal as hell to speed on them.
Ocklawaha
(http://images.businessweek.com/story/08/600/0410_mz_tire.jpg)
Stephen, this is an EXTREME example of a retred, but it gives graphic evidence of where to look, check that sidewall.
Ocklawaha
Quote from: stephendare on July 05, 2008, 11:53:45 AM
Color me unimpressed with "Sunday Service". It now sounds like an especially dirty trick practiced in one of the more vicious order of bordellos.
JTA. seriously. WTF are you people thinking.
sounds to me like a perfectly reasonable system in Jacksontucky. What do you want, this is hooterville.
a little bit better customer service?
CapMetro was on a Sunday schedule today. I didn't know about it. I freeken missed the 383 by 30 seconds and the maggot driver saw me and didn't wait. It took 2 hours for the next bus to come. But, I hope your monday was better. I think it's luck of the draw on the drivers, or are you seeing a trend that just says screw you JTA rider?
Lucky you got one of the better drivers today I take it. ;)
What is JTA's policy on drivers using cell phones?
How about the policy regarding name tags?
call the super from your cell phone next time and wait on the super to arrive....report that please???
Quote from: stephendare on July 08, 2008, 03:21:04 PM
thanks for the emails to the three of you that responded.
Great points.
no problem man.
Can you talk to them about bus drivers that attempt to hit pedestrians, bikers, and cars...you know just pulling out or turning whenever they feel like it as if the rules and laws of the road don't apply to them????
Almost hit by a turning bus on Union last weekend riding to the library (happens a lot) and the buses turning onto Pearl from 8th are notorious! Bus drivers in general are not known for politness, everywhere not just JAX. I had a friend hit by a bus in downtown Charlotte, crossing the street in the crosswalk on green....they just feel they don't have to pay attention. Enough ranting, not really the topic of your research!
A bit late, but defending JTA on the 4th, the SKYWAY was open to Kings Avenue, before and after the fireworks, but closed during the show (perhaps a bit before and after) due to safety issues with explosive charges on the Acosta Bridge.
Acosta Bridge, which oddly, I never saw fire off during the whole show? WTF? Also wasn't this the shortest? What happened to the Skyscraper fountains this year? I sure didn't catch them? But of course that's for another thread...
I used the Skyway from Kings Avenue before and after the show, in fact just before midnight, not a bus in sight either time at Kings Avenue. There were some grease stains on the pavement indicating SOMETHING pulls in there once in a while, but who, what and when? One of those great cosmic questions.
Signs anyone? Route Maps? Some REAL TIME BUS INFO? Hey at least at the transfer centers, maybe Rosa Parks, Kings Avenue, Union Station and the eventual Brooklyn Station.
"What about bus 2 way, with such courtesys as transfers and simple call outs like San Succi inbound to Kings Avenue, I have 7 for the Skyway...disposition please, can you hold 2 minutes for connecting passengers?" Drivers with the most customer service calls win some incentive prize. Mike and Mike? Give me a crack at this mess and we'll fix it!
Ocklawaha
Quote from: stephendare on July 09, 2008, 11:21:14 AM
off to explore the U2 line.
http://jtafla.com/services/lines/u2/u2.aspx
Rattle and Hum
Quote
Bet its more like "still haven't found what Im looking for"
especially on "Sunday Bloody Sunday"
And at the end of the month, when this ordeal is over, you'll be able to say that "they took your life but they could not take your Pride," right? :D
rGeHgEeTnTcOy.
What else was discussed at this meeting?
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/237/bussign0004lz6.jpg)
The meeting was VERY productive. Starting with a suggestion that I wasn't invited, and moving downhill when Stephen got stuck on the JTA system, lost in space... Finally those little things were worked out, and in we went.
(http://www.mta.info/mta/news/newsroom/images/gct_clock.jpg)
Missing Information? COVERED IN THE MEETING!
(http://www.itsdocs.fhwa.dot.gov/JPODOCS/REPTS_TE/13845_files/image013.jpg)
Real Time Information? Google? GPS? COVERED IN THE MEETING!
Mr. Blaylock was very genuine with his opening remarks, he went to some detail to explain his vision and what each person in the room was tasked with, then a joint vision for a whole system.
(http://www.vta.org/projects/dtev/images/newsletters/fall_2001/brt.jpg)
Building into BRT in stages? Some busways? Southbank Service? COVERED IN THE MEETING!
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20Jacksonville%20Modern/Eagle15.jpg)(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20Jacksonville%20Modern/Eagle15Anew.jpg)
Euro designed Silver Eagle Commuter Coaches for long Distance Runs, Comfort Anyone? Restroom? Starbucks Bar? COVERED IN THE MEETING! ...and Mike and Mike, as an old Trailways Boss, I've got friends at the factory.
Stephendare, then launched into a comic soap opera of JTA screw-ups, misfits, and fools... He praised the information call center. The suggestion that certain bus drivers be lynched or flogged in public brought laughter to the whole crowd. Stephen is quick on his feet in conversation and very able to inject wit and wisdom into the most difficult moments.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20Jacksonville%20Modern/PCTTrolley.jpg)So called Trolleys and mixed up routes? COVERED IN MEETING!
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20Jacksonville%20Modern/RiversideTrolleyMapandSign.jpg)
Signs, the good the bad, the ugly, COVERED IN THE MEETING!
As Stephen surrendered the chair, I took out a note pad and read through a laundry list of "fixes" for the system. Trying to be gentle, but driving home a fact that there seems a great gulf between Mike Blaylocks vision and the applied solutions within the JTA machine. We were all in agreement that the fixes would be simple and had merit, but who is going to drive the bus through that maze?
(http://railfanning.org/graphics/jacksonville_6899a.jpg)
Southbank maze? Skyway Duplication? Kings Avenue Information Booth? Kings Avenue as a STATION?
COVERED IN THE MEETING!
(http://www.kieferpe.com/picts/JTA%20Bus.jpg)
Rosa Parks Customer Service? Spreading the Concept? Brooklyn? Kings Avenue? COVERED IN THE MEETING!
(http://www.dot.state.fl.us/TrafficOperations/Newsletters/2006/02_2006/Graphics/JTA.gif)
Union Station Tunnels? News to EVERYONE! Why not use them, Expand them? COVERED IN THE MEETING!
(http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/streetcar-4706-17.jpg)
OCKLAWAHA Using an old Subway car as a Streetcar? Ocklawaha starting a streetcar Company and keeping all the JTA employees onboard? PRICELESS!
Overall, I enjoyed the meeting and think very differently of Mike Blaylock, then the "Blaylock" we have read about in the past. The man seems to be a visionary leader, someone that has some pretty cutting edge ideas on transit application. If they embrace the streetcar concept, it might be a marriage made in heaven. Perhaps now is the moment, the time, the day for JACKSONVILLE to shine! Lead on Mike, Lead on.
Ocklawaha
Well, that's good to hear.
My problem is exactly that - his "vision" and what we have are so unbelieveably, ridiculously apart. I wanted to attend, but a 1:45 meeting during the week with two days notice is a bit tough.
If you can get some changes at JTA, can you do JEA next? I have a VERY amusing JEA story for you next time we chat!
Good! Perhaps they need "Phantom riders" more often...
swallow a LoJack
It's a tracking device. People usually attach them to their late model Porsche, BMW, Ferrari's. When the car is stolen the police can track it down.
The sad part of all this is that it took an outsider... a community activist if you will, to bring this to the attention of the policy makers. Otherwise it would be business as usual. Dont hold your breath that the changes promised will become a reality or that they will stick. We have seen things like this before... Placate the complainers with promises to fix and do better... wait awhile for things to simmer down... your attention diverted elsewhere then... Voila... back to the past. For this to actually work JTA needs an autonomous Quality Assurance division willing to put JTA on notice of poor performance... willing to tell management what improvements need to be made, reporting complaints on drivers and being an ombudsman for the ridership...
Im better now... please excuse... :)
No city department would ever work that way IMHO. They are out to protect themselves and the department. They want the department to get the A+++ each years so fat chance.
External auditing and inspection helps any organization. The best ones seek it out.
How's my driving? Call 1-800-EAT-DIRT.
Okay Stephen, I'll tell the tale... JTA does have phantom riders besides Stephendare. The audits go straight to management. So dumping your body at the far end of the Commonwealth Avenue line, isn't going to help the drivers.
The conversation was very animated at the meeting, including such Stephendareisms as "The Drivers should be publically flogged," "lynch mobs", came up a couple of times bringing laughter.
I countered with "If I were appointed KING of JTA tomorrow, I wouldn't fire anyone in this room!" Which drew quizical stares, and nervous laughs. Of course friend Stephen was rolling on the floor by then. BTW, I used it to temper the mood and set a stage for we can't flog our way to perfection. We need a rewards program, fare forgiveness, safe place policys, fare free zones, and JTA happy hours (.25 cent fares). We need to grow into BRT.
A point offered was if the President walked into this room and laid a BILLION dollars on the table and told us to
"Build BRT and they will come..." it wouldn't do a damn thing. REASON? No one in this city has ever been trained to ride the bus, Skyway or a streetcar. NO ONE. If tomorrow a bus left Downtown and Regency every 5 minutes for the opposite terminal, ridership wouldn't change. What do you do when you get downtown? Wait another 40 minutes for your connection...if it runs...if it works...if the driver favors your money. We MUST close the Headway gap, tighten connections, and work toward a professional rolling magic carpet that will serve as the door to Jacksonville for citizens and visitors alike. A rolling embassy-Chamber of Commerce with a purpose, rather then the transit doormat of today.
Ocklawaha
Quote from: stephendare on July 11, 2008, 01:51:29 PM
Apparently the word on the buses is that Mr. Blaylock is taking it dead seriously.
Two of the bus drivers at the station were talking about major changes, and the phantom rider that keeps posting shit on the internets.
Heaven help me when they finally divine the website and start reading it with our pictures.
Your humble servant may find himself on a sunday 'special' for real.
LOL! How old is that pic? Just don't wear a pumpkin shirt.
Okay, so JC is going to the Suns game tomorrow night and we are planning to take JTA TO THE EVENT, and a cab back to the island (Riverside). So be on the lookout for a report on JC. Im scared
Heres the fundamental problem, no one really wants to go downtown. I"ve had friends whose wive don't drive, they tried to use the bus system, quite frankly its a joke. It basically makes everyone go downtown even if your trying to go from san jose to regency. You must transfer buses down town. Then they had to deal with some of the how shall I say "colorful characters" at the transfer stations. Jacksonville has the fundamental problem of being too large, consolidation was a good idea at the time, not so sure any more. Look at the bridges, everyone has to pass downtown, I emphasis pass downtown. I've wondered if anyone has calculated how many people actually work in downtown vice the butler /i-95 soutside exit. I've often thought that if you factor out the captive fed workers, the number of people that work off bulter will greatly out number the downtown employees.
I hope you arent finished riding Stephen. I was enjoying your daily reports... You still have 15 days... :)
I live downtown and I love it, although I will admit, things are pretty quiet after 6pm. We need some billboards along Union, State and 95 that read "You could have been home 10 minutes ago. Live Downtown." Background pictures could include a mom greeting her kids by the door, a man on his couch with a beer, a couple playing with their dog, etc.
Brilliant, brainstormer! Some focused advertising never hurt anything. One of the many things that could eventully boost residency in the Core: "Advertise"
Couldn't tell you the last time I saw anything at all promoting for Berkman, San Marco, or the Twins (Strand + Peninsula).
Anyhoo - as for the Topic at hand: It's very interesting to see the powers-that-be at JTA react so ... resolutely. It's refreshing, and I hope this is the start of a long trend for transportation in the city.
Thanks for your public service, Mr. Dare. :)
Quote from: brainstormer on July 15, 2008, 04:50:28 PM
I live downtown and I love it, although I will admit, things are pretty quiet after 6pm. We need some billboards along Union, State and 95 that read "You could have been home 10 minutes ago. Live Downtown." Background pictures could include a mom greeting her kids by the door, a man on his couch with a beer, a couple playing with their dog, etc.
A bum taking a dump in front of a restaurant.....I kid, I kid. I love Downtown.
Most people ride one bus at set times making them less clarivoyant then you might expect. But I agree with L-9, R-5. I think SS5 and SS9 are bad enough. Flav-o-flav 7 would be more amusing.
The Metro Jacksonville article "Solve the JTA Cryptogram" which was publish over a year ago, pretty much sums up what you have found: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/483/
How about a a few 'Night Owl' aka Drunk Busses that depart Rosa Parks at 11:40, 12:40AM, 1:40 AM to the the Park And Rides at the beach, the south side, Regency, West Side, etc.
Thats an awesome idea, keep the drunks off the streets.
Quote from: stephendare on July 22, 2008, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: jacksonvilleconfidential on July 22, 2008, 01:21:34 PM
Thats an awesome idea, keep the drunks off the streets.
this is a basic, responsible function of mass transit across the country.
Imagine that. A mass transit system in Jacksonville that actually serves a purpose. What a novel idea. Lol.
I think people in all sorts of industries, hospitality, service, etc, could all a night bus to get them to and from work after hours with the added benefit mentioned above.
Quote from: stephendare on July 22, 2008, 01:50:23 PM
Any clues as to what the system was originally designed to do?
Screw with Stephen Dare. ;)
Over a year ago on this forum I discussed, or compared JTA to CapMetro...let me find the thread. I compared the two websites...maybe that thread will gain us some insight. Here it is...just me and Ocklawaha discussing how horrible JTA is compared to CapMetro, Texas's #1 transit system voted!
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,961.msg5959.html#msg5959
Since your meeting have you heard anything else from JTA? Are they checking on your progress?
QuoteAs a matter of fact, the JTA has kept in touch pretty much all the way through.
Today I was asked if I would present a speech with a meeting of the drivers to address some of the customer service points.
That is excellent. I admire what you're doing with this. I truly hope this causes some positive changes. I'm very interested to hear how the speech goes.
One of the most consistent things I've heard since moving here is that you
cannot get around the city without a car. I don't think most people even
consider the bus an option because of everything you have experienced.
Quote from: stephendare on July 23, 2008, 01:03:29 PM
I think the whole system needs to be reimagined. It seems like we are endlessly perfecting a system that at its best could only serve a fraction of the "mass" population.
basic uses for Mass Transit seem to be missing.
Using the busses to get back and forth from the campuses around the city for example....
Or connecting the town centers with each other (five points, san marco, springfield, Avondale, Murray Hill etc) Connecting the entertainment centers like tinseltown and the malls and the nightclub districts in order to provide reasonable night time service options. Never mind night students or late shift corporate work
I mean, something as simple as addressing the reasons people travel and use their cars and providing a mass alternative.
What do people use their cars for that buses would be a better alternative?
Many excellent points Stephen!
First, I think the huge success with the downtown-riverside trolley system is that JTA created a quick and easy way to access two destination points. Why hassle with driving when you can make it to lunch in less time and for less money on a trolley.
Second, Jacksonville has grown tremendously since the original bus routes were designed. Starting from scratch would force JTA to take a look at where people live, where they want/need to go and then find an easy solution for how to get there. It would take a lot of research and surveys but in the end if done correctly would probably boost ridership tremendously. They would need to keep in mind all methods of mass transit (Bus, Trolley, Skyway, and hopefully very soon streetcars and light rail.) so as not to duplicate routes. People want simplicity and efficiency or they won't even try it as an option.
:D Welcome to the Westside... :D :D
Westside deer are killers... :D
did you catch any mass transit down in the swamp stephen?
Quote from: stephendare on August 06, 2008, 02:17:54 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 06, 2008, 02:15:25 PM
Westside deer are killers... :D
Well I can certainly see why people are so eager to shoot them.
After two attempts on my life, the vicious pack of them tired of chasing me through the woods. I can only surmise that they finally tired of such poor sport and went on to more diverting prey.
ROFLOL... :D :D Your killing me.... :D :D
Quote from: stephendare on August 06, 2008, 02:20:31 PM
Quote from: gatorback on August 06, 2008, 02:17:38 PM
did you catch any mass transit down in the swamp stephen?
I caught a whole lot more than transit, gator.
Lol. I bet you did.
I wait in breathless anticipation for the posting... :D
QuoteDo we really need a system whose only purpose is to provide work transit only to the poorest?
Wow. That completely echoes the impression I've had since coming here.
Quote from: stephendare on August 06, 2008, 09:21:23 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 06, 2008, 07:48:56 PM
I wait in breathless anticipation for the posting... :D
I was breathless while being pursued by the damned deer.
I have gone carless for about 3 months (because I wanted to keep my car in Atlanta while I spent every other weekend there) and haven't had any adventures nearly as exciting as Mr. Dare's. (The closest I came was one bus breakdown).
Lesson: Obviously I need to spend more time on the Westside! ;)
JTA constantly tinkers with its routes to maximize efficiency, ridership, etc.
Which I suppose is a good thing in itself.
But the downside is you lose predictability, which in turn maximizes ridership.
There aren't any right or wrong answers to this kind of tradeoff - though I personally prefer more predictability.
Quote from: stephendare on July 01, 2008, 04:32:05 PM
Ah. The Bus Stops.
Who the hell needs the Da Vinci Code in order to build a sense of anxiety, dread and suspence.
L7 B7 R5 E4.
Do these numbers mean anything to anyone? Is it part of the Navahoe Code?
Im sitting here, looking at the various incomprehensible alpha numerics wondering what in the hell do they mean. A fellow passenger is certain that they are in the right place at the right time. They are catching the B7 to San Marco. "B", my limitedly informed benchmate informs me, stands for Baymeadows.
This gives me a certain sense of relief, since San Marco is also my intended destination.
I stare holes in the rest of the letters trying to divine what their true inner meanings might be.
R. R. R........
Riverside? dunno. Rogero? maybe. Can't tell.
E.
E.
E?
Eastside maybe?
Where are the schedules for any of these routes? where do they go?
James (the fellow B-7 passenger) can only answer two things with certainty. That b-7 goes to San Marco and "B" stands for baymeadows.
ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT! ZOMBIE THREAD!
The mental image of you running through the woods being chased by Westside deer will never leave my mind. It's a great read. It's necessary to wipe away tears of laughter ever time I think of it.
Quoteturns out there were a lot of violent ex offenders in the workforce of the bus drivers.
Why am I not surprised.
What else might be uncovered if the TU dug deeper into every area of City Government to uncover who does what and has credentials for it all. I was blown away to see that Jackie Gibbs, who used to be the COJ Procurement director, was making $180k at JTA, when Greg Pease is slumming through the same job at the City for a paltry 106k.