QuoteFlorida State has settled a federal Title IX lawsuit with Erica Kinsman, a former student who said she was raped by quarterback Jameis Winston in 2012.
The settlement was announced on Monday, more than a year after she initially filed the complaint in federal court.
FSU agreed to pay Kinsman $950,000 – an amount that includes attorney's fees – as well as make a five-year commitment to awareness, prevention and training programs. The lump sum is the largest settlement for Title IX claims regarding indifference to a student's reported sexual assault.
"I will always be disappointed that I had to leave the school I dreamed of attending since I was little," Kinsman said in a statement. "I am happy that FSU has committed to continue making changes in order to ensure a safer environment for all students."
Full article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2016/01/25/florida-state-settles-title-ix-lawsuit-erica-kinsman-jameis-winston/79299304/?hootPostID=773734469b55a76d18ba224143355a5d
That whole program is corrupt.
Apparently, the Department of Education investigation continues. Kinsman is also still suing Winston, who is counter-suing her. I would have hoped there would have been a more thorough look at the Tallahassee PD outside of the Title IX suit.
With the amount of funding on the line in a Title IX suit, this settlement makes total sense. Why even chance it with a judge. Aside from additional litigation costs.
There was some feet dragging on the part of FSU, TPD, and with Jimbo's testimony that he was unaware of some of FSU policies the settlement is really the best outcome imo.
Under a mil for settling. Yeah, FSU was the winner here. Clearly the lawyers for Kinsman didn't want to take it further. All you need to know is that she was set to be deposed the day after the settlement was announced.
It does now give her some more money to pursue Jameis. That case is over a year away. Winston wants to fight it to clear his name...for the 4th time. But, at some point you have to just say the cash drain of fighting it is not worth trying to clear his name. Those who don't believe him will continue to ignore it.
Winston will be the harder target, honestly. There's evidence of what FSU and the cops did to botch the investigation, but thanks to that, there's no solid evidence on Winston. Maybe he'll settle to make it go away, but he doesn't seem to have much in the way of good judgement and decision making skills.
FSU's damage will be to its reputation. No school wants to be known as the place that mishandled a rape investigation to protect a star jock, and that's how a lot of people see them now. I doubt the police department will suffer as much as they deserve.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 27, 2016, 01:17:54 PM
Winston will be the harder target, honestly. There's evidence of what FSU and the cops did to botch the investigation, but thanks to that, there's no solid evidence on Winston. Maybe he'll settle to make it go away, but he doesn't seem to have much in the way of good judgement and decision making skills.
FSU's damage will be to its reputation. No school wants to be known as the place that mishandled a rape investigation to protect a star jock, and that's how a lot of people see them now. I doubt the police department will suffer as much as they deserve.
I agree. The only merit to Kinsman's case was the liability on the part of TPD and FSU to do their due diligence in this type of situation. I don't think a jury would find in her favor based on the info that we currently know. The only person Winston should pay is Casher for destroying the cell phone video. It probably would have proved his innocence, but once TMZ etc got a hold of it....man what a sh*t storm.
Gators312, in no universe known to man do your boys destroy a video that CLEARS YOU (remember, the video was destroyed on orders from his defense attorney). That's just crazy thinking, to me. It's also obvious to most of the nation that FSU and TPD obviously sabotaged the investigation when the chick informed them immediately she had been at Potbelly's.
Pretty obvious reason why the investigator didn't immediately secure the video from Potbelly's.
Also pretty obvious why FSU purposely didn't do what they knew they were legally required to do -- conduct a Title IX investigation.
Which is why they had to spend $1.7 million with a Jax law firm only to agree to this spanking that requires five years of extra effort and publicly produced reports on those extra efforts. The Noles now get to enjoy five years of extra scrutiny and zero tolerance . . . and they aren't out of the woods yet with the federal Title IX investigation.
No, Kinsman pretty clearly bent them over her knee and secured the biggest Title IX recovery in history. Thrasher talked crazy yang about the split of recovery which was immediately disputed by the attorneys. She's clearly driving the train right now and Jameis is quite likely going to beg to settle.
As I've said on other forums, a bunch of FSU fans don't seem to understand that cleat chasers *can* be raped so their whole defense isn't actually an absolute defense at all. FSU better hope and pray the New York Times isn't sitting on some really explosive investigatory material right now because that is *very* possible.
Where did you find out Winston's defense ordered the video distorted? Very possibly true but don't confuse rumor with stated facts.
Look, they're never going to admit that but none of us are social virgins here. The odd things that surround this case don't just occur by happenstance, they are purposely orchestrated. This is from the New York Times investigation:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html
QuoteMr. Casher made a startling admission: he had secretly videotaped part of the sexual encounter through the partly opened bedroom door, and deleted the video from his phone a couple of days later. Had the police found him quickly, they might have obtained that video.
Mr. Casher had never mentioned the video in the affidavit he submitted with the help of Mr. Winston's lawyer. Even so, officers did not ask why he had omitted that important fact, why he had deleted the video or whether he had shared it with anyone. And though Mr. Casher said he had a new phone, the officers did not ask what he did with the old one.
This is a bit of the relevant timeline:
2013 10.25: Friday. Erica Kinsman's victim advocate tells her that a second woman has come forward and reported being raped by Winston. The advocate asked if Kinsman would cooperate with and participate in disciplinary proceedings against Winston and she reportedly says yes.
2013 11.08: Friday. TPD receives an inquiry from the Tampa Bay Times about a reported investigation into Jameis Winston. Someone from TPD immediately notifies FSU Police Chief David L. Perry about the inquiry and sends Chief Perry the police reports at Perry's request. Chief Perry then forwards those police reports on to Monk Bonasorte that same night and Bonasorte then notifies Head Coach Jimbo Fisher.
2013 11.08: Incredibly, Jameis Winston's lawyer (Gator grad Tim Jansen) also received a copy of those reports. When questioned about where he received a copy of the unreleased reports, Jansen said that "he got them from a guy in town" who, more than likely, was a member of the FSU Athletics Department.
2013 11.12: Tuesday. Curiously, FSU Dean of Students Jeanine Ward-Roof, who supervises Code of Conduct proceedings at FSU, emails FSU Police Chief David L. Perry and others at FSU stating that no disciplinary proceedings against Winston were going to take place. This is done with the personal knowledge that at least two FSU female students had reported problematic sexual encounters with Jameis Winston, something that only FSU officials were likely privy to.
**********
There's more. Little of it beneficial to FSU. Simpleton efforts to construct theoretically plausible deniability run throughout the sabotaged investigation. No matter what nonsense they're trying to spin now, that's why FSU was thoroughly spanked by Erica Kinsman and settled for a million dollars and agreed to all the extra efforts.
There was no rape. If evidence supported that then Winston would be in Jail. Kinsman is a slut. She will get her ass handed to her in the counter suit filed by Winston. The evidence (that which has been reviewed by State Attorney, the FSU Student Code of Conduct Review Board and a retired Florida Supreme Court Justice) clearly shows there was no rape. Once a Jury reviews all the evidence Kinsman's suit will be dismissed and Winston will have a press conference.
The Hater's gonna hate cause that's what they do.
27-2
Bill Cosby, now that's another matter.
Quote from: MusicMan on January 27, 2016, 09:44:07 PM
There was no rape. If evidence supported that then Winston would be in Jail. Kinsman is a slut.
What an abhorrent string of words.
I'm sorry your offended.
It's the multiple semen samples they found in her under garments that are troubling to many................
Like I said, there will be a trial and she will get her ass beat. A poor investigation does not change the actual facts of the case.
I'm a fan of FSU but not Winston. For the folks who hate FSU and Winston no trial will ever be good enough, so I'm not worrying about them.
Fair enough.
Lost my "cherry" to a Baptist preachers daughter when I was 15 (she was older).
And she was definitely the one in charge.
For the record, I like Jameis. He's intelligent as heck and a heck of a quarterback. FSU likely did him no favors by freaking out in this case. Of course, neither did he do himself any favors with this kind of (at best) risky, young-and-dumb behavior. I think the boy has a touch of Asberger's and has a hard time with social boundaries.
These are weird times and young people are emboldened to do ever-more outrageous things and to tell ever-more outrageous lies in the aftermath of those actions. The only thing we know for certain is they (FSU & TPD) unquestionably sabotaged the investigation (and I believe at least one attorney and one investigator from the State Attorney's Office was in on the effort). What we will probably never know, however, is whether [1] they engaged in a heroic effort to save a male student and athlete from an outrageous lie that would ruin his life and career or, [2] whether they engaged in a damn-near criminal conspiracy to deny a female student and rape-victim her deserved justice.
I see Rattlgator has his tinfoil hat and orange and blue glasses on. I'd say a good reason for deleting that video would be that it is illegal to film in the first place. A much less conspiracy theory would be that Casher knew it was illegal and deleted it to not get in trouble for that. Or even his friend asking to delete it because sex videos are embarrassing. But you're conspiracy means that he actually video recorded a rape and kept a rape video on his phone for months until he had to be told by an attorney that having a video of rape on your phone is not a good thing. Of course by then it would be weird to tell the cops, "yeah, I had a video of a rape, and it was on my phone for a long time. Then an attorney told me having a video of a rape on my phone isn't a great idea." Why even mention the video?
Then lets talk about the code of conduct hearing overseen by a retired Florida Supreme Court judge selected by Kinsman attorneys. They requested a judge hearing because they couldn't trust the student jury. We would all "finally see the truth". That case didn't even have to prove Winston raped her, only that he put her in a threatening position...of course that again backfired again.
At every level, and with lower burdens of proof, there is nothing. This rape didn't happen.
Now, if you want to draw issue with FSU handling of the Title IX case, then I could see that. But that isn't unique to FSU. There are several other Title IX cases going on against large universities. Title IX has been an entirely new navigation for Universities. As the lawsuits start piling up, most universities are finding that they are throwing money at title ix administrations because they don't know what else to do.
Quote from: RattlerGator on January 28, 2016, 08:37:03 AM
I think the boy has a touch of Asberger's and has a hard time with social boundaries.
I see that we also have our internet psychologist hat on too.
Quote from: MusicMan on January 27, 2016, 10:08:18 PM
I'm sorry your offended.
Cool non-apology. As Stephen illustrated, your entire argument could have been made without resorting to showing your misogyny* re: sexually active women. Plus, "If evidence supported that then Winston would be in Jail" would require believing that college atheletes do not routinely get away with criminal behavior. I realize that's a difficult concept for most college football fans to comprehend, however. I'm sure it's easier for you to think the Tallahassee police department's bungling of this was an exception, not a rule.
*Stephen refrained from calling your comment misogynist, but that's what it is. You should think about what it says about
you that you used that word.
I find it perfectly believable RG that the attorney told Casher to delete the video, that he thought he might get in trouble for the video and deleted it or that he filmed it in a drunken moment and just deleted it when sober. I don't know so I won't state one as fact.
Quote from: MusicMan on January 27, 2016, 10:24:10 PM
Fair enough.
Lost my "cherry" to a Baptist preachers daughter when I was 15 (she was older).
And she was definitely the one in charge.
TMI Alert.
FSU's problem is that the only ones who don't see this whole deal as a major problem are the blinkered FSU diehards, particularly those who care more about the football program than the actual school. Well, them and the kind of people who call women "sluts" in general.
Despite the claims of people willing to say for fact that the rape did or did not occur, we'll never really know what happened. The reason for that is a thoroughly botched police investigation and obstruction from FSU at various levels. Regardless of the truth of the allegations, the subsequent behavior was inexcusable. The case makes FSU look like a place that circles its wagons to protect athletes even from the most serious of allegations, and makes Tallahassee look like a Podunk Holler that cares more about not embarrassing the football gravy train than investigating an alleged rape.
It's unfortunate, really, as this behavior is certainly not representative of the institution or Seminoles community in general, but such actions, and now the payout, solidifies the image that a lot of people have already.
I think her case is relatively strong on a preponderance of the evidence standard in civil. She has a rape kit from that night with his seaman in there. SAO didn't feel like it could meet the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt necessary for a conviction due to the shoddy police work done by TPD. If she can provide decent circumstantial evidence, she can get a jury of her peers in the Tampa area to find for her. It may not be what she asks for, but there are some damages that will be available.
FSU just wanted to settle this so they didn't have to go through discovery. That would have been an awful mess for them.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 28, 2016, 01:01:15 PM
FSU's problem is that the only ones who don't see this whole deal as a major problem are the blinkered FSU diehards, particularly those who care more about the football program than the actual school. Well, them and the kind of people who call women "sluts" in general.
Despite the claims of people willing to say for fact that the rape did or did not occur, we'll never really know what happened. The reason for that is a thoroughly botched police investigation and obstruction from FSU at various levels. Regardless of the truth of the allegations, the subsequent behavior was inexcusable. The case makes FSU look like a place that circles its wagons to protect athletes even from the most serious of allegations, and makes Tallahassee look like a Podunk Holler that cares more about not embarrassing the football gravy train than investigating an alleged rape.
It's unfortunate, really, as this behavior is certainly not representative of the institution or Seminoles community in general, but such actions, and now the payout, solidifies the image that a lot of people have already.
You can merge the FSU handling of the Title IX case and the actual allegation all you want. Truth is that Title IX lawsuits are going on around the country at an ever increasing rate because Universities were (are still) not equipped to handle them. The broad strokes of Title IX have left universities scrambling to throw money at the situation in the form of bloated administration handling, and even then they aren't "getting it right". Now, I'm sure all the other Universities being sued under Title IX are trying to protect players too.
Quote from: FlaBoy on January 28, 2016, 01:36:38 PM
I think her case is relatively strong on a preponderance of the evidence standard in civil. She has a rape kit from that night with his seaman in there. SAO didn't feel like it could meet the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt necessary for a conviction due to the shoddy police work done by TPD. If she can provide decent circumstantial evidence, she can get a jury of her peers in the Tampa area to find for her. It may not be what she asks for, but there are some damages that will be available.
FSU just wanted to settle this so they didn't have to go through discovery. That would have been an awful mess for them.
You know consensual sex would also lead to his DNA being in the kit right? And she already lost in a hearing where only preponderance of evidence that
she was even in a hostile environment wasn't found. All she needed was circumstantial evidence, but even then nothing.
And if you think FSU was in the rush to settle this cause of discovery, I'd say the payout was way lower than Kinsman was looking for...weird that she was set to be deposed the day after the settlement. So many stories for her to choose from.
Quote from: FlaBoy on January 28, 2016, 01:36:38 PM
I think her case is relatively strong on a preponderance of the evidence standard in civil. She has a rape kit from that night with his seaman in there. SAO didn't feel like it could meet the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt necessary for a conviction due to the shoddy police work done by TPD. If she can provide decent circumstantial evidence, she can get a jury of her peers in the Tampa area to find for her. It may not be what she asks for, but there are some damages that will be available.
FSU just wanted to settle this so they didn't have to go through discovery. That would have been an awful mess for them.
Never presume the facts for either side from a settlement. I worked in the legal industry for a while heres the way it works. The lawyers do not settle early so they can run up fees then they settle so the lawyers for both sides can declare victory to their clients.
btw there literally was a hearing based on just preponderance of evidence and the accuser lost. You may want to lose that line when talking about the case.
Quote from: Bridges on January 28, 2016, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 28, 2016, 01:01:15 PM
FSU's problem is that the only ones who don't see this whole deal as a major problem are the blinkered FSU diehards, particularly those who care more about the football program than the actual school. Well, them and the kind of people who call women "sluts" in general.
Despite the claims of people willing to say for fact that the rape did or did not occur, we'll never really know what happened. The reason for that is a thoroughly botched police investigation and obstruction from FSU at various levels. Regardless of the truth of the allegations, the subsequent behavior was inexcusable. The case makes FSU look like a place that circles its wagons to protect athletes even from the most serious of allegations, and makes Tallahassee look like a Podunk Holler that cares more about not embarrassing the football gravy train than investigating an alleged rape.
It's unfortunate, really, as this behavior is certainly not representative of the institution or Seminoles community in general, but such actions, and now the payout, solidifies the image that a lot of people have already.
You can merge the FSU handling of the Title IX case and the actual allegation all you want. Truth is that Title IX lawsuits are going on around the country at an ever increasing rate because Universities were (are still) not equipped to handle them. The broad strokes of Title IX have left universities scrambling to throw money at the situation in the form of bloated administration handling, and even then they aren't "getting it right". Now, I'm sure all the other Universities being sued under Title IX are trying to protect players too.
I'm not talking about just the handling of the Title IX suit. I'm talking about the actions of FSU officials that led to the suit - officials obstructing the (admittedly halfassed) police investigation and then basically burying their own investigation until it was far too late for anything to be done. Yes, other big football schools are as bad as FSU, but that's a terrible excuse.
A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, I was a university police officer engaged in a campus rape situation and investigation.
Fortunately, it did not involve an athlete, so it didnt get the magnification that the athletic program brings to ANY student criminal case. The victim did not have to deal with the incredible levels of scrutiny.
Unfortunately, the university administration was incredibly ill prepared to deal with the situation. I cant even tell you how badly the whole thing was bungled. From the lowest of staff all the way to the President.
It really came down to preparation and planning. Because the school administration was more focused on prevention and loss of reputation, the way it was handled was just one step of baffoonery after another.
If schools stop thinking "it should never happen" to "it will happen and we have to have a plan" the baffoonery would never happen to begin with.
Because of the baffoonery, the perp was never caught, the victim never got proper counsel and while she said she was OK, she wasnt and dropped out of school in less than 3 months.
Fortunately since then I have been exposed to a public university who did have their act together, had a specific plan in place and followed it. Because of it, the victim was saved and is still in school, the perp was punished significantly and the school came out looking like a rose without having to make mega payouts, simply because they did the right thing to begin with.
Campus rape and assault is already a difficult situation for schools to deal with. Add the athletic amplifier along with administration inadequacy, you end up with situations like the one being discussed.
^Well put.
Quote from: Bridges on January 28, 2016, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 28, 2016, 01:01:15 PM
FSU's problem is that the only ones who don't see this whole deal as a major problem are the blinkered FSU diehards, particularly those who care more about the football program than the actual school. Well, them and the kind of people who call women "sluts" in general.
Despite the claims of people willing to say for fact that the rape did or did not occur, we'll never really know what happened. The reason for that is a thoroughly botched police investigation and obstruction from FSU at various levels. Regardless of the truth of the allegations, the subsequent behavior was inexcusable. The case makes FSU look like a place that circles its wagons to protect athletes even from the most serious of allegations, and makes Tallahassee look like a Podunk Holler that cares more about not embarrassing the football gravy train than investigating an alleged rape.
It's unfortunate, really, as this behavior is certainly not representative of the institution or Seminoles community in general, but such actions, and now the payout, solidifies the image that a lot of people have already.
You can merge the FSU handling of the Title IX case and the actual allegation all you want. Truth is that Title IX lawsuits are going on around the country at an ever increasing rate because Universities were (are still) not equipped to handle them. The broad strokes of Title IX have left universities scrambling to throw money at the situation in the form of bloated administration handling, and even then they aren't "getting it right". Now, I'm sure all the other Universities being sued under Title IX are trying to protect players too.
Quote from: FlaBoy on January 28, 2016, 01:36:38 PM
I think her case is relatively strong on a preponderance of the evidence standard in civil. She has a rape kit from that night with his seaman in there. SAO didn't feel like it could meet the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt necessary for a conviction due to the shoddy police work done by TPD. If she can provide decent circumstantial evidence, she can get a jury of her peers in the Tampa area to find for her. It may not be what she asks for, but there are some damages that will be available.
FSU just wanted to settle this so they didn't have to go through discovery. That would have been an awful mess for them.
You know consensual sex would also lead to his DNA being in the kit right? And she already lost in a hearing where only preponderance of evidence that she was even in a hostile environment wasn't found. All she needed was circumstantial evidence, but even then nothing.
And if you think FSU was in the rush to settle this cause of discovery, I'd say the payout was way lower than Kinsman was looking for...weird that she was set to be deposed the day after the settlement. So many stories for her to choose from.
Very interesting to see FSU sympathizers attack possible rape victims. In the end, you would have to think this 18 year old girl born and raised in Zephyrhills, FL, would have to be diabolical to have intercourse with Jameis Winston and then go to the police hours later and actually receive a rape kit. They found markings that were consistent in the doctor's report with rape (could be very rough/violent sex).
When you are talking about a preponderance hearing are you referring to the Student Code of Conduct Hearing?
Likewise, if you have ever known someone who was raped or injured in a way that caused PTSD, depositions are very tough, especially in a situation like this. If I were her, I would not want to get bullied by Winston's attorney. I am an attorney and have seen it many times. I also have family who has suffered injuries from the foolishness of an out of control kid. I know she struggles to talk about the matter at all and even suffers from memory loss in the situation. It is hard and scary for victims.
Flaboy you are going to need to put a link to the claim of markings consistent with rape on the accuser.
Seems contrary to most of the reports on the med exam findings.
You may be right in that case it will be easy to link.
This particular case has received more scrutiny than any other like it in recent memory. All of the authorities charged with reviewing this case have arrived at the same conclusion.
When a jury in Tamp finds the same thing that will still not be enough for the people on here who assume guilt first.
Slut is a term that is applied to both sexes.
FWT, you don't know me so I suggest until you do you delete your idiotic remarks.
http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/full-copy-of-jameis-winston-hearing-decision-122114
Quote from: JeffreyS on January 28, 2016, 11:52:57 AM
I find it perfectly believable RG that the attorney told Casher to delete the video, that he thought he might get in trouble for the video and deleted it or that he filmed it in a drunken moment and just deleted it when sober. I don't know so I won't state one as fact.
No way would somebody destroy evidence that is exculpatory. If you have a video that proves your innocence, you're going to keep it and risk a much lesser charge related to making the video.
The most shameful thing from the whole episode to me is how FSU conclusively shat upon one of their own students. Eventually, I expect someone somewhere to ask questions along these lines and give a public accounting of the responses:
- What TPD officer made the decision to not file a probable cause affidavit (PCA)?
What supervisor or series of TPD supervisors signed off on the decision to not file the PCA?
Over the last five years, how many sexual assault probable cause affidavits have been forwarded by TPD to the State Attorney's Office (SAO)?
Over the last five years, how many sexual assault complaints received by TPD *weren't* forwarded to the SAO?
Did any other sexual assault complaints eventually forwarded to the SAO have the year-or-more delay this case had?
What is the policy of TPD on deciding whether a sexual assault complaint does or does not get a PCA filed?
That will begin the process of illuminating whether special treatment was given in this case; the numbers likely will not be good for FSU or TPD. The timeline in this case is conveniently odd; only a fool or FSU partisan can't recognize that. Not that it will matter to MusicMan and others who insist on a superficial understanding of what was done on this claim. Anyone citing results after the investigation was obviously sabotaged is blatantly unserious. Whip out as many claims of tinfoil this, that or the other -- it won't change the circumstances. The real problem for FSU going forward are their own victims' advocate people:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/14226424/florida-state-official-details-favorable-treatment-seminoles-football-players-accused-rape
If you're looking for one and only one reason why FSU settled the Title IX claim for a million dollars, that fairly recent article gives it to you in black and white. The problems for FSU aren't over. They are just beginning. That chick is probably going to get her revenge and it will play out over the next decade in multiple forms of media.