Dancey Terrace Photo Tour
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3-dsc_0003.jpg)
The extremely controversial and long delayed Dancey Terrace has finally opened a model home to the public. These twenty-four 1,000 square foot bungalows were slated for demolition, but were saved by half of the Springfield constituents (to the dismay of the other half).
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/401
Well... they're cute? I could see myself buying one if I was a smurf with $200K and absolutely nothing better to spend it on. Look at the benefits- you're right smack in the middle of Springfield's beloved Chicken District, your basest desires can be met via the crews that run the vacant lots across 9th St. and tiny living space means less clean-up!
They are kind of nice, but the PRICE! The price for such small square footage. Yeah, it would be nice to be able to get into Springfield for less than $175k, but I'm still going to want some SF. I wonder if the developer is actually planning on rehabbing the others if this one doesn't sell soon? Is he required to?
they seem nice inside, and it's a cute idea for a living environment, but that is a lot of money for what is essentially a tiny condo. if it included a fenced back yard and a master bath, i could see paying that much. but not for a 3/1 with only a strip of land between you and the neighbors. and the parking would be a pain if you lived in one of the central houses.
Does each home come with a broken down palm tree in the front yard? :)
The inside does look nice, but that is way, waaaaaay too much money for a house that small with no yard! Monthly maintenance fees, too? No way. I can buy a nice, actual single-family home in Murray Hill or parts of Riverside for that much or less. And that gate/fence is freakin' bobo.
I've been waiting to see some progress on this development. It is looking great so far.
Cliff, the landscaping has yet to be finished and is supposed to be pretty nice. The units are a bit small but because of the Springfield market in order to get the price per unit down there has to be limitations in square footage.
These things are way over priced, this is the problem in Springfield. Owners want way too much money for properties. The neighborhood is improving, but not that fast. You can get a house with a yard in Riverside for $189,000
They could at least pickup the stupid palm tree in front of the only one that looks presentable.
The palm tree had just fallen over due to the high wind this weekend.
Even the "visionaries" on Metjax have no vision.
Not everyone WANTS A YARD!!! In many great areas in Los Angeles, including Pasadena, Santa Monica and the South Bay beach neighborhoods, there are bunches of these types of communities (though most rent b/c the owners are sitting on gold mines).
They are known as motorcourts and date to the early part of the 20th century when the automobile was first gaining in popularity. Not everyone had a car (or two), so a few parking spots at the end of the court was just fine. Even today, these motorcourts have a nice neighborly effect because the homes face each other and do not have a street up the middle as a barrier. And the yard IS gated -- motor courts that are sold usually have condo property rights, and I would bet the ENTIRE gated area is common area (the whole yard belongs to every owner).
And regarding the size/price, $189/sq ft is the best rate in all of the downtown neighborhoods. Maybe you could find a suburban neighborhood home on the west side or in St. Johns Cty for that price (many developers have a lot of spec inventory of their Florida-classic, stucco-yucco homes).
I'm amazed that even the people who profess to "get" urban, can't see outside the southeastern real estate development model of 2-car garages with yards, or true multi-unit condos. Motor court -- innovative then, innovative in the southeast now.
Houses in Riverside for 189k, that look as nice as the model are very few and far between from my experience. Of course, if you consider the other side of I-10 to be Riverside, then maybe not.
NEW constructoin/renovation always costs more than resale. And Murray Hill, though nice is not as close in.
I do think these should be priced somewhat lower, but they are not outrageous.
When you compare this to the $300k condo and lofts with less sq footage being offered downtown, this is in the ballpark. It has the feel of an artist colony. When all 24 units are complete, I think it will be easier to see the value. For some folks, it might be better to merge two of the BRs into one suite and enlarge the bathroom. But for 1-2 people there is plenty of space. I think Springfield is a godo spot for this.
I live 4 blocks from this place and the homes look great. I have been waiting for this project to get going and am very pleased with the work. My wife and I are looking for a place for my father in law and will definitely be checking these out. 4 blocks away and the price is very reasonable, IMO. You can have a 2bd/1ba condo outside of Wal-Mart in Regency, pay $200k and $200 a month for fees and tell me it's even comparable to your own home for less with a gorgeous setting near downtown... I'm with zoo, where's the vision? When we first moved to Springfield we had plenty of agents saying that people came to see homes for sale a year or so earlier and didn't buy b/c of the neighborhood, then they came back and couldn't afford it and was mad. This sounds like a similar scenario.
I've been looking at homes recently and actually, yeah, you can find houses that are as nice, and bigger, in Riverside for that price (on the "right" side of I-10)...prices have gone down considerably in the last few months. I think this is a good idea for a development (probably better for a rental though), and I appreciate that they are saving historic homes, but I just don't see it as being a particularly good value compared with what else is out there. Also, anybody know why they didn't just make it a 2/1 with a larger living space? It looks cramped.
what is "metjax"???
Actually, they are both ripoffs, oh did I say that. After seeing the Shipyards, I had to laugh. I mean really laugh. The base unit is a little over 800 sq. ft. starting at $300,000. I hate to say it but that is smaller than my garage. But I'm sure some morons will think it is a deal to live in a vacant downtown, gee you can smell the coffee factory. To listen to the sales women describe the area it is as though you were living LA, NY, DC. I really didn't want to hang around and listen to what the association fees were, or what a boat slip costs. If anyone wants to buy a bridge in Brooklyn, let me know, have I got a deal for you.
Now on the other hand you have Dancey Terrace. This is a structrual accident waiting to happen. Elevated homes with dirt crawl spaces, termites love them, ah wait a few years. Land looks flat, just think of the standing water, love it. Notice the old sub-sills and floor joists, I like the way they probably have bowed. Can the builder tell you how many roof rafters were replaced. Please make sure you get a good home inspector before you buy. Just think this is another way to get people to move into the city, so you can drive out of the city to get a gallon of milk,or go shopping.
I think for all concerned it's best to leave the city as a place for business, if you can get a business in there.
Well just some food for thought, oops I have to drive out and get some !!!!
While I assume terminte treatment was done, virtually all crawl spaces are dirt that I am aware of. How is a house with a crawl space less prone to termites than one that is built on a slab, which is directlt on the ground ?
I guess you somehow missed the fact that the Shipyards is on WATER! and that there are amenities involved. That is what you are paying for, plus the fact that new construction is always more expensive. Look at the Berkman, the pre-sale purchaasers have done quite well. You are comparing apples to orange trees.
As a fellow renovator in Springfield, I have seen and heard a lot of armchair contractors and wannabe developers making judgments, but very few willing to put their money where their mouth is. Don't get me wrong, Springfield is still very much flawed and I even chuckled at the "chicken district" observation... .However, I still believe Dancy Terrace was a missed opportunity to have a boutique-style shopping plaza which you can find on St. Simon's Island and Las Olas Blvd. in Fort Lauderdale. I challenge some of you Metrojax'ers to please contact the Ben Carters of the world to bring upscale to Springfield so we don't have to drive outside of our zip code to shop...
Neourban is on the money. Boutique style shops are a fabulous idea! Were merchants not responding to that idea favorably? Someone needs to get on the developer about changing his vision.
Ben Carter doesn't care a squat about Springfield, or any of the other downtown neighborhoods (core included). He's too busy directing any retailer that MIGHT be interested to his SJTC, Phase II, and The Esplanade at WGV -- he's got a ton of space to fill. I haven't seen a fox, yet, that brings chickens into the henhouse...
Why should he care? He is a businessman not a philanthropist. He is in the business of making money. Do you think we need an Urban Outfitters, Gap or PF Changs in Springfield?
"Why should he care? He is a businessman not a philanthropist. He is in the business of making money. Do you think we need an Urban Outfitters, Gap or PF Changs in Springfield?"
They why is the Mayors office and JEDC putting in charge of the downtown retail task force? That is the wolf/chicken reference.
I personally have come to decide that I don't think our Mayor is a bad mayor, he is just extremely suburban. We, being largely urban minded are constantly at odds because when we thing about down town we think of people living, working, eat, shopping, and playing all in the same area. For someone who is suburban minded, he thinks Disney world. He wants people to come downtown to do stuff, then go home to JCP or the beaches. Come to a game, or a concert or fireworks. But you certainly dont want to get your gorceries or underwear down here!!!
That type of visioning leads to contrived ideas like "the big idea". Its not that his intentions aren't the best, its that he simply doest understand what it takes to make a thriving urban center where people can abandon their cars, and live.
WOW, some of you need to remember the saying, “Don’t judge a book by its cover†at least until the project is done. And if you have something negative to say, try and say it in a positive way. We are all quick to throw stones, but never think about where they land.
I have personally seen previous jobs completed by both construction companies here in Ft. Lauderdale and can testify to their quality in work. As for the palm tree, as previously stated, it fell down due to the high winds...and the General Contractor called the landscaper and informed him he had planted the tree entirely too shallow and needed to come back and plant the tree properly. As much as they might like too, a GC you cannot physically be there to watch over every job done, but when a job is done incorrectly they can require the people hired to re-do a job correctly. As far as the rafters, I know they were all inspected and if needed re-bracketed for safety. While corners could be cut, it is clear that safety is being considered first. It is also important to understand they are showing the model home in order to give people an idea of what the development WILL be not what it is at the moment. The gates are not finished, nor the fencing, landscaping, parking and a million other projects. The city requires several permits to do any little thing to those houses, such as “Certificates of Appropriateness.†And that takes time. If you want to nit pick, do it once the project is completed... have you never heard "it will get worse before it gets better.â€
Agreed.
As someone who has family ties to those houses (My wifes great-grand parents lived in one shortly after they were built) I am just happy to see them being worked on.
Bully for you guys, and don't worry about the naysayers.
i don't think anyone is saying that they look like crap. they are just asking too much. i'd consider it for $125K.
I love discussion - it's something that is wonderful about this neighborhood! Springfield neighbors are never shy about speaking their mind - and that is why we love it here.
You KNOW that I have to chime in about the comments that the bungalow's are "TOO EXPENSIVE". For those of you who may or may not know, I write the neighborhood article - "Springfield By The Numbers". This is a statistical view of the current real estate market in the Springfield area. These bungalows are priced at a little under $189.00 a square foot. I admit - we don't have much history as a neighborhood in that arena - HOWEVER - we have had several homes - not much larger than these, close for more than that. We also currently have MANY new construction projects and new loft conversions that are priced in the $200.00 a square foot range - so I have to defend the fact that these bungalows are expensive. What you are getting for the current price is an almost completely rebuilt home. For those of you who have actually done a rehab of an older home - you know how expensive that kind of a project is.
The current GC is doing an excellent job at doing what is appropriate for these homes. I have worked with these guys and have gotten them to make changes which are adding to the historic feel of these homes. They are keeping the original fireplaces, we've used historic tiles in the bathroom, and we are currently looking at kitchen plans to redesign the kitchen that is shown in the model. Please give these guys a chance to show you what they are doing in this truly unique spot in our great neighborhood before passing judgement.
Finally, for those of you who remember the OLD Redell Court - the current owner is really doing his best to recreate what was once a neighborhood hot spot. I live across from these bungalows and remember the gun shots and the noise that these homes once produced. I am encouraged and excited about this project and invite you to call me and come by and look at what is happening at Dancey Terrace!
As a veteran of historic renovations, I can say that these places look very nice based on the photos above. It costs a LOT to fix these old places after years of neglect. It looks like they have redone the foundations, rewired, replumbed, repainted inside and out, installed central heat and air, patched walls, etc, etc, while maintaining as much historic integrity as possible. I am impressed. I do not feel that $189 per square foot for this finished product in this location. And, you cannot get a fully renovated home in Riverside for the same price per square foot - that is a false statement. All of the naysayers and whiners who are making fun of this project now will be complaining in a few years about how much everything costs now that Springfield is fully renovated. Negative people are just negative people and rarely accomplish anything.
I really should proof read these posts before hitting Add. I meant to say that I do not think that $189 per square foot for this finished product is unreasonable given the fact that the places are in move in condition. I have seen cheaper places in Riverside, I will admit, but I do not believe they are fully renovated as these are. I guess it all depends on what your priorities are.
I guess vi doesen't know to much about newer construction and he is very observent when he sees water , I gusee. Home Depot has some great classes for kids, hope he signs up.
"Elevated homes with dirt crawl spaces, termites love them, ah wait a few years. Land looks flat, just think of the standing water, love it."
It must be an absolute miracle that they haven't been flooded and subsequently devoured by amphibious, deep-sea diving termites in all the many years that they've been standing, huh. Whew! Guess that year just hasn't come yet!
To "Your worst nightmare", paraphrasing Chevy Chase, "...you stupid #$@%^" How old, exactly, do you think these homes are? Do you think they've been standing long enough (obviously neglected) to have had termite damage? I guess 100 years isn't long enough for them to have been completely destroyed by pests and water. You're right, these homes are going to be in complete and utter ruins...in 200 years.
Homes in Florida (take a walk down 6th or 7th streets on Amelia Island in Fernandina Beach (incidentally, I owned one of those "termite" infested places built in 1879), were built using heart pine. The sap from the pine trees acted as a natural insect repellent, and while they did have termites from time to time, very rarely was it enough to destroy the structure...as is evident by looking at these homes. If you are still concerned, perhaps you shouldn't renew your termite service on your concrete slabbed, styrofoam-on-the-outside-to-make-it-look-like-ornamental-block, home. Afterall, your house is impentrable because it's new and modern, right? LOL. Good luck with that.
Once things really get rolling on this project - more renovated homes, parking, landscaping, etc. - these homes will sell like hotcakes! To whomever took those pictures I would appreciate it if you would stop by the property sometime and take some pictures of the next units that were just completed - completely new designs and plans! These are almost completely brand new homes! These homes also come with a 42" flat screen lcd television and six months free JEA!
When homes are sitting in the Jacksonville market for 180 to 270 days on market on average, and when realtors are seeing listings expire after 180 days, only to see desperate sellers relist for the same rediculous price, why would $200 a square foot be seen as a good deal to a new home buyer? Homes in neighboring Riverside and Murray Hill, FULLY RENOVATED, can be had for $100 a square. Does the idea of row housing really invite $200 a square?
There are other areas where people do not go out at 2 AM to film the ho's walking up and down the streets. I am sure that 200 a square is a nice deal with a 1k flat screen and 6 months of JEA, but when the shine wears off, they are still living in a tiny row house with no neighbors. The builder would have been better to build ALL of them and then sell the development. As it is now, its no better than living amid East Side dilapidated housing that invite bugs at night to do their business. Sure, I want to raise a family in that! Get real!
They will be lucky to sell them for 89k. 3 yrs ago this would have been a good idea, but it is a different market. The project is a loose loose situation and plus who wants to live in Springfield where people are getting shot and hookers are everywhere.
If you want to move to a artsy neighborhood move to Riverside-Avondale its much safer and cleaner.
Crackheads row is what that area is called. I don't know about everyone else but I like to move to a home that I would feel safe in. It does cost alot to remodel and its hard work but this is a joke for the area and the price. The 2 foot fence should make the blind buyers feel safe.
higher price=no slums...these row houses could easily turn into that...sure they may appear to be worth less than what they are offering based on the surrounding elements and "negative" image most of jacksonville has of Springfield. BUT to appeal to the yp's and middle class to upperclass families...the price needs to stay above the 200's...this is how neighborhoods grow & increase in value. It will take the risk-taker individualist to move into these great old houses, as so MANY have!....and then in about 10-15 years springfield will be the SUPER trendy place to live & unaffrodable. This is when all the people too afraid to jump in early will try to move there....jax is like houston 20 years ago.
The places that can be a bit sketchy now won't be sketchy for long (although there are some areas that will forever be sketchy though )
of course you do have a point...for that price you can buy a great single family house in murray hill...so it really is up to the person buying...they are either springfield material or their not....it really comes down to that.
ok...in response to the fence comment. A fence is a fence...you could even put borders of flower pots around your house and it creates an enclosed feeling. people are less likely to trek across your yard if there is something on the perimeter...plus a criminal can jump a 2ft fence just as easily as a 6ft +fence...believe me. And lastly I have not seen ANY quality fences here in jax since I moved here...some of these 6ft-8ft fences maybe higher but so crappily buit I could probably run into it and knock it down anyway ....so what's the use?! and I am a slender female!
As far as safety...since when is the suburban gated condo community safer? Jax is full of those areas...and they ARE NOT SAFER...pedafiles, murderers, criminals are anywhere and everywhere. these condos with like 5,000 people crammed into them, not well lit, your individual condo is not fenced...so anyone has access to your windows/door...the garages or parking lots which are usually not well lit either, you have to walk more than 10ft to get to your apt after dark.
That is safe!?
and then the majority of these condos back into these serene forests, marshlands, & quiet parks...as a single girl living alone....when I think of these areas...I think of perfect places to get kidnapped, raped, or have my body dumped and no one would see or hear it! have you watched the news ever?
so do be so quick to judge Springfield..
plus when I was in high school it was the suburban kids in the "safe" neighborhoods that had drug, sex & alcohol related problems and violence then the inner city kids in houston...consistently.
"do NOT be so quick to judge springfield"
Glad something is going forward. Note: Washington palms will look a lot better in the long run. Queen palms are kind of ugly outside of the tropics. http://floridagardener.com/palms/washingtonpalm.htm
Wow, that was a wild look back as a trolled the thread...Those homes were projected to sell for near $200K in 2007? Now when you look on zillow, it seems you might pick 'em all up for that price!
whats the latest with this?
Still vacant.
Quote from: nomeus on June 24, 2012, 11:56:24 PM
whats the latest with this?
There's been occasional interest from developers, but since they're owned by a number of different entities, and the costs of 24 units with 24 sets of A/Cs, refridgerators, etc, it's just been prohibitive.
Update: a neighbor has been collecting these bungalows, and has begun some renovations.
Now for rent : )
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1922-Redell-St_Jacksonville_FL_32206_M65152-17148
Did they figure out parking? I always thought that would be the biggest issue with these houses. Glad someone is renovating them and putting them back to use.
Nice to see renovations continue. The price seems about right. The only thing that sticks out to me is the kitchen looks way too cheap, especially on top of the gorgeous wood floor.
Quote from: remc86007 on March 14, 2017, 02:25:11 PM
Nice to see renovations continue. The price seems about right. The only thing that sticks out to me is the kitchen looks way too cheap, especially on top of the gorgeous wood floor.
Ha, Ha. That gorgeous wood floor is really ... tile. Cabinets are mid-grade as opposed to base line and simply did not get extras (crown, etc) since theses are all rentals. Layout and choice of finishes are very functional which is what is important in a rental kitchen. Hailing and Johannes are great and demand good quality in their renovations.
Parking is being worked on but all the solutions take HPC approvals.
This is now two down and only twenty-two to go!
Quote from: strider on March 14, 2017, 04:23:19 PM
Ha, Ha. That gorgeous wood floor is really ... tile.
That's funny. The pictures fooled me...
Nice - glad these were saved. This is definitely different from your standard fare housing (both in terms of the houses themselves and how they are arranged). Really a nice alternative to an apartment.