Metro Jacksonville

Commuter Rail: Could Amtrak be the answer?

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-5258-caltrain-danhugo.jpg)

Is Amtrak the answer we've been looking for to bring commuter rail to Jacksonville and other Florida cities?

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/819

Equipment - Amtrak already has it
Crews - Amtrak already has them
Operating Agreements - Amtrak already has them

Mention "AMTRAK" in a JTA meeting, and your told to shut-up.

With Amtrak we not only get Green Cove Springs, Yulee and St. Augustine, but we get a new front door to the whole of North America. The Florida City that sits down with Amtrak and works out the yard, coach storage, switching facilities, crew base and Terminal, is the City that will be the true "NEW GATEWAY CITY".

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ACL RPO CAR (Railway Post Office) about 35 years after the famous race.

There is a famous story of the two big Florida railroads in competition for the US-Cuba mail about 1910. The Seaboard Air Line, was arrow straight from Savannah southward over the coastal marshes to Kingsland, Yulee and Jacksonville. The Atlantic Coast Line went from Savannah to Waycross, where they had (CSX still does) a major switching yard and junction. From Waycross the track skirted the Okefenokee and entered Jacksonville on the Northwest side of town (current Amtrak station and line). The railroads held an official race, each train consisted of a fast steam locomotive, tender, postal car, and business car. They left Savannah headed South and the Seaboard, as always, made good time. Over on the Coast Line, near panic conditions reigned as they knew how much longer their route was. They turned their heads to the rule book and told the engineer (hand picked with his favorite fireman) to WIN THIS DAMN CONTRACT! It is a matter of record that in many places they shattered international speed records. Fuzzy math and lack of speed recorders places their speed at around 127 mph, INCLUDING stops for other railroad crossings and for water. As the story goes, when the Seaboard train pulled into Jacksonville Terminal, the boys came in laughing, asking "Has that Coast Line train crossed the St. Marys River yet?" The chief agent for Jacksonville Terminal is said to have replied, "Oh they crossed it alright, in fact that mail is 1/2 way to Cuba right about now..."

I tell this story of a famous Jacksonville train race for one purpose. Are we SO SURE that we have won the railroad hub of Florida, by default... You know, we already have the best routes, the big terminal (which you should recall is a convention center now) and switching facilities. Or will MICKEYS MONEY build the super terminal? Will Tampas rebuilt Union Station regain the tracks? Will Orlando and the Florida East Coast be linked as they propose?

This goes WAY BEYOND commuter rail. Our life as the railroad center of the Southeast is at stake, and we are told to HUSH, and stay on subject in the local meetings. JTA at it's finest. You see those trains are 1/2 way to Orlando by now.

Ocklawaha

Thanks for the race story. Really interesting.

Hope someone in the city council or JTA does their homework and gets things moving.

Did you see the train with the Target sponsorship? Would the city allow that??

JTA allows it on city buses.  It could be a decent way to help pay for the annual O&M costs.

excellent article!

Quote from: thelakelander on June 25, 2008, 10:26:54 PM
JTA allows it on city buses.  It could be a decent way to help pay for the annual O&M costs.

I was kidding. I remember them telling Sirius they would not allow them to wrap the Skyway during the Super Bowl. But they allow the Hooters bus.

Quote from: copperfiend on June 25, 2008, 10:41:09 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on June 25, 2008, 10:26:54 PM
JTA allows it on city buses.  It could be a decent way to help pay for the annual O&M costs.

I was kidding. I remember them telling Sirius they would not allow them to wrap the Skyway during the Super Bowl. But they allow the Hooters bus.

I guess the proposed Skyway ads weren't serious enough.  (sorry, couldn't resist)

On Amtrak for Commuter Rail - doesn't Amtrak have serious (sorry) on-time problems?  Or would that be overcome by the short runs involved with Commuter Rail routes?

Was the feature photo of a Tri-Rail Train in Miami-Dade/Fort Lauderdale?  That's what it looks like.

Heights Unknown

The feature photo is of Caltrain.  Caltrain runs between San Francisco and San Jose, CA.

Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 26, 2008, 05:59:56 AM

Quote from: copperfiend on June 25, 2008, 10:41:09 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on June 25, 2008, 10:26:54 PM
JTA allows it on city buses.  It could be a decent way to help pay for the annual O&M costs.

I was kidding. I remember them telling Sirius they would not allow them to wrap the Skyway during the Super Bowl. But they allow the Hooters bus.

I guess the proposed Skyway ads weren't serious enough.  (sorry, couldn't resist)

On Amtrak for Commuter Rail - doesn't Amtrak have serious (sorry) on-time problems?  Or would that be overcome by the short runs involved with Commuter Rail routes?

Mainly the railroads are congested and Amtrak does not have first priority on the tracks they don't own.  The $15 billion that will help fund Amtrak will also be used to increase track capacity to help make the system more reliable. 

QuoteWhy Amtrak Can't Run Trains On Time
In Most Of Country, Passenger Railroad Must Share Congested Tracks With Freight Trains

WASHINGTON, Feb. 27, 2007

(AP) The Capitol Limited, an Amtrak train from Chicago, is scheduled to arrive in Washington every day at 1:30 p.m. But frequent rider Edda Ramos knows better than to make plans for the afternoon or evening.

She knows a late arrival â€" sometimes by an hour or two, sometimes by seven or eight â€" “is the one thing you can count on.”

The 764-mile route is among Amtrak's most dismal performers, with just 11 percent of trains arriving within 30 minutes of their scheduled time last year. But the problem exists to one degree or another on the majority of Amtrak routes.

The main reason: In most of the country, the national passenger railroad operates on tracks owned by freight railroads, and the tracks are badly congested.

With freight traffic soaring in recent years, Amtrak's never-stellar on-time performance declined to an average of 68 percent last year, its worst showing since the 1970s. When the routes where Amtrak owns the tracks are excluded, the on-time performance last year fell to 61 percent.

Even the lawmakers who vote on Amtrak's subsidies of more than $1 billion annually have gotten caught in the holdups. Earlier this month, House Democrats traveling to a retreat in Williamsburg, Va., arrived two hours late after getting stuck behind a CSX freight train with engine trouble.

Alex Kummant, who took over as Amtrak's president in September, has made improving on-time performance a priority. A former executive at Union Pacific Corp. â€" a freight railroad long considered hostile to Amtrak â€" he says the relationship between Amtrak and the freight railroads is inherently complicated.

“It is an intersection of a subsidized structure with a truly private-sector structure, so how do you coexist?” he said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.

Kummant doesn't blame the freight railroads for most delays, saying they need government help to make the capital investments necessary to cope with soaring volumes.

But passenger advocates and others accuse the freight railroads of failing to live up to their end of a bargain struck in 1970, when Congress agreed to let the railroads unload the passenger service they said was dragging them down. In exchange, the railroads were required to give priority on their tracks to trains run by a new national passenger railroad. Amtrak pays modest fees for use of the tracks.

Amtrak performs far better on the Northeast corridor, where it owns the tracks. Last year, 85 percent of its high-speed Acela Express trains between Boston and Washington arrived within 10 minutes of their scheduled time.

But where Amtrak depends on the freight railroads, the picture is far gloomier, and the Capitol Limited is not even the worst case. The Coast Starlight, which runs between Seattle and Los Angeles, had an on-time performance of 4 percent in the fiscal year ended Sept. 30. For the California Zephyr, connecting Chicago and San Francisco, the figure was 7 percent. In the current fiscal year, the California Zephyr has not once arrived on time.

“The resulting damage to Amtrak's brand, reputation and repeat business is potentially devastating,” Amtrak's former acting president, David Hughes, wrote in a letter last summer to the federal Surface Transportation Board.

The freight railroads say they do the best they can and are investing heavily in capacity improvements. In its own letter to the board, CSX Corp. said Amtrak should add more time to its schedules to reflect reality.

There is little incentive for the railroads to help Amtrak arrive on time, because the fees that Amtrak pays to use the tracks are paltry in relation to the billions of dollars the freight lines take in. Nor are there any real consequences for failing to accommodate Amtrak. A bill in the Senate calls for establishing penalties.

In the last fiscal year, Amtrak paid all of its host railroads $90 million â€" including about $15.5 million in rewards for on-time performance. If Amtrak had performed better, the railroads could have earned an additional $74.5 million in incentives.

Kummant said he believes the freight railroads are making a good-faith effort. But he said track capacity has become maxed out as freight traffic has soared in recent years, thanks to increased demand for coal and a growing reliance on rail.

That, in turn, has worn out the tracks, forcing Amtrak trains that normally travel 79 mph to slow to as little as 20 mph. Much of the rail network is single-tracked, meaning trains going in one direction have to pull over onto sidings to let trains coming the other way pass.

But Kummant said the situation has shown some improvement in recent months. And in what he called a sign of better relations, he has been given a sneak peak at the railroads' capital plans, and “they're nothing short of stunning.”

To further speed up improvements, the freight industry is lobbying for federal tax credits for investments in track and other infrastructure to expand capacity.

One late arrival of the Capitol Limited last week showed how complicated the issue is. The train lost several hours because of “freight interference” on Norfolk Southern Corp.'s tracks between Chicago and Toledo, Ohio. But its problems actually started when it left Chicago an hour and a half late because of mechanical problems, thus missing its time slot. It arrived at Washington's Union Station 3½ hours late.

The late arrival was frustrating for Ramos, 44, who started riding the Capitol Limited last year to visit relatives in Chicago. The Washington resident takes the train to avoid airport security hassles, but said she wouldn't risk it for business travel.

“I would be fired!” she said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/27/business/main2522531.shtml

This goes far beyond what they are saying here. Some railroads, Union Pacific in particular, are reverting to the old ways of the 1960's. "If we can make this Amtrak thing so bad no one will ever come back, then it will just go away...." Add in huge support by John McCain or Bush for killing Amtrak, and one can see through the haze. Trains magazine recently had a feature story "The Night Auto Train Ran On Time", funny, all the way from Sanford to Lorton Virginia, every freight was "in the hole" (off the main track) to allow Auto Train to speed past. No one was "oops, we're not done switching in Fayetteville yet". No engines were causing trouble. All the way North the signals read "High Green". Hum? Why? CSX had issued permits for the media to ride the locomotive that night. The whole railroad was under orders, "THIS TRAIN RUNS ON TIME OR HEADS ROLL". There once was a time when that was a railroad attitude toward their flagship passenger trains. Nobody would have ever thought to have delayed the Seaboards Silver Meteor, The Atlantic Coast Lines Palmetto, The Southerns Crescent. It would have cost them their jobs, simple as that.

Today no one is really accountable. Amtrak incentives are gumball machine income to the industry. Amtrak penalty's are a joke and frankly by the time they clear legal challenges, end up costing more then their worth.
There is an old saying about "Those who lack the discipline to police themselves, will be policed by the state a commuter form, we would do somewhat better, delays of 20-30 minutes are not uncommon on Tri-Rail (CSX freight line). But our City Hall could put some teeth in local delay of train rules. Perhaps follow the lead of the "Move accident vehicles from the lanes" and push a Statewide rule that trains not be delayed. Limit or modify vehicle or pedestrian/animal accident investigations to get the train moving ASAP. Police it like we would a downtown parking meter.

When this all shakes out, consider the industry has been warned. You better believe Mr. Railroad boss, it's coming, and you have a huge target painted on your collective behinds. It's not revenge they seek, it's a reckoning...

OCKLAWAHA

Sounds like having to rely on the freight carriers rail lines for passenger traffic is a losing proposition.  I dont doubt that the congestion on existing freight lines makes sharing the rails nearly impossible.  I dont believe other countries with high speed rail share lines with freight carriers.

The one fact the writer seems to be missing is that the Amtrak commuter lines that are used as examples are connecting densely populated areas with large metropolitan cities that have excellent public transportation systems.  Jacksonville is not a large metropolitan city and has a horrible public transportations system.

How about Detroit?  Although not mentioned in this article, Amtrak is currently working with SEMCOG in Detroit to establish a demonstration commuter rail line between Detroit and Ann Arbor, MI.  If successful, an existing Amtrak line between the two cities would get as many as eight trains per day, each way between the two cities.  Officials hope that this demostration commuter rail system will prove that the area can generate enough ridership to gain the blessing of the FTA to help fund additional rail projects in metropolitan Detroit.

Detroit/Amtrak project: http://www.semcog.org/uploadedFiles/Programs_and_Projects/Planning/Corridor_Studies/SteeringCommitteeUpdate_200802.pdf


The article did mention that Amtrak would most likely not be interested in operating a Jacksonville-based commuter rail system.  However, they are interested in establishing a new line between Jacksonville and Miami, as well as adding more daily trains in Florida.  Where Jacksonville could benefit from is lobbying for Amtrak stops in places like St. Augustine and Orange Park, as well as relocating the Jax station back to downtown. 

If Amtrak is successful in adding more trains along its Florida lines (all of which would have to come through Jacksonville), this region may have the opportunity to use a segment of a Florida based intercity Amtrak system for commuter purposes between Downtown and a few of the largest cities in Clay and St. Johns Counties.  As the article suggests, this could allow a starter rail line here in Jacksonville to cover a route or area, not served by an upgraded Amtrak system, thus reducing the amount of money and time needed to get alternative transit options up and running locally.

Quote from: JaxNative68 on June 27, 2008, 02:00:47 PM
The one fact the writer seems to be missing is that the Amtrak commuter lines that are used as examples are connecting densely populated areas with large metropolitan cities that have excellent public transportation systems.  Jacksonville is not a large metropolitan city and has a horrible public transportations system.

You are so correct Jax. 

lake:  that would be great if downtown was connected to Clay and St. Augustine.

I'm sure it wouldn't cost much at all to do that.  Why can't this happen?

It can.  Our leaders just need to change their priorities.

Could Amtrak be the answer?
You answered that with the excellent article.
Yes, absolutely!
Let's get started in Central Florida.

QuoteFRA Issues Rail Relocation Final Rule

This week, the Federal Railroad Administration announced a Final Rule providing guidance for eligibility for capital grants under the Rail Line Relocation and Improvement program created in the SAFETEA-LU transportation reauthorization legislation.

In order to be eligible for grant funding, a project must mitigate the adverse effects of rail traffic on safety, motor vehicle traffic flow, community quality of life or involve a lateral or vertical relocation of any portion of the rail line. Under the law, half of all grant funds are reserved for projects costing no more than $20 million each.

A state or other eligible entity will be required to pay at least 10 percent of the shared costs of the project. Congress appropriated $20,040,200 for this program for FY2008 with $5,240,000 directed to nine non-competitive projects.

Last week, the Senate Transportation Appropriations Subcommittee approved FY2009 funding levels of $20 million for the Rail Relocation program. Of that funded amount, the $2 million was earmarked for Chicago's CREATE project, $1 million for the West Bay Freight Access Project at the Port of Vancouver, WA, and $1 million went to a short line project in Salem, NJ.

The Senate Subcommittee also approved a $1.55 billion appropriation to Amtrak and $100 million in capital assistance to states seeking to promote new intercity passenger rail service or improve existing passenger rail service.

Are JTA and FDOT paying attention to this?

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Commuter rail in Hartford? YES

QuoteSounds like having to rely on the freight carriers rail lines for passenger traffic is a losing proposition.  I don't doubt that the congestion on existing freight lines makes sharing the rails nearly impossible.  I don't believe other countries with high speed rail share lines with freight carriers.

You are correct that extensive track sharing with freight is a nightmare. If we are talking extensive, then we are talking 136 - 156 pound CWR (continuous welded rail) probably on concrete ties. When max loads are run over that track the rail flexes under the car wheels. Not to get too technical loads of coal and lumber or limestone or grains, can beat the track to death. So even if schedule keeping was fine, if we are talking about heavy mainline use, we got trouble. The facts are the trains and the track are heavier then ever before, and more tons are being moved then in the so called "hey day" of railroading. Bottom line? THIS IS THE HEY DAY!

Thought two, these facts didn't stop us before from running a first class freight and passenger network. If you can accept that a few spots, junctions or cities might be a bit rough... IE: the train rocks or bounces a bit, then this is something we CAN live with. When the mind of America was on the "DEAD RAILROADS" back in the 1960's-70's, the companies decided to cut back and show a profit as much from ripping out track as from running trains. Frankly, it went WAY TOO FAR, and mile after mile of needed railroad was sold as junk. It's not just AMTRAK that is paying for these errors, but the freight shippers themselves, as the schedules melt down.

The solution to the above could be as simple as the States or Federal Government offering low interest loans to rehabilitate miles of track. A simplistic package where the State, County or City assist with the track needs of both the freight carrier AND AMTRAK in order to meet a certain projected number of trains and train speeds. Once the deal is done, there needs to be a punitive side with a legal bite like a saber tooth tiger. "You said 6 miles of passing track and XXX new signaling system would allow 32 ON-TIME trains daily..." (Sound of BIG cat being released from his cage!)


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CALTRAIN in the Golden State

QuoteThe one fact the writer seems to be missing is that the Amtrak commuter lines that are used as examples are connecting densely populated areas with large metropolitan cities that have excellent public transportation systems.  Jacksonville is not a large metropolitan city and has a horrible public transportation system.

Where have you been sleeping for the last 50 years?? Weird? Jacksonville is larger then Dallas METRO-AREA when the cowboys came to town... Larger then Los Angeles when 1,250 miles of interurban railroad were constructed and larger by far then Dawson YT, Yakima, Ft. Smith, Kenosha, or Augusta, all of which have rail transit or a project in the works. You are right we are NOT a large metropolitan city, in area, we are THE LARGEST, and in population, we rank as number 3 in the East Coast States behind NEW YORK CITY and PHILADELPHIA...in that order. It's WAY PAST DUE to get to work on something big in local transit and I don't think another 30 miles of highway lanes and a few dozen buses will solve the problem.

If your talking about railroad importance, then it's no contest, Jacksonville wins hands down. 2 of the 3 class-one railroads in town make Jacksonville their home offices. Every train that enters or leaves the trunk of peninsular of Florida, MUST pass through Jacksonville. In passenger terms, we still have Union Terminal, it is the largest railroad station in the United States south of Washington D.C.. In terms of tracks and trains served, it WAS one of the largest with 29 tracks... bigger then ANY station in Chicago, more then both stations in Atlanta, or Chattanooga, and dwarfed such stations as Milwaukee, Omaha, Kansas City, New Orleans, Charlotte, Richmond, Memphis, San Francisco, Oakland or Los Angeles. Our railroad express and baggage terminals were the largest in the entire world, railway express maintained it's own terminal where JTA is today that had 32 tracks. Even with that, there was the Atlantic and East Coast Terminal over by Houston Street with another 4-6 tracks to a station that was about 1/2 mile in size. Don't think that history is lost on me, it is known in all of the railroad circles, we are the CHICAGO of the SOUTH.


(http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dart2009.jpg)
Dallas, TRINITY RAILWAY EXPRESS and the rebuilt 50 year old Budd RDC cars...nice! Would you believe an entire fleet of 200+ RDC cars sit at a rebuilder in Canada just waiting for us to call in the order? TRUE.

QuoteHow Can Jacksonville Benefit?

Several lawmakers and state Department of Transportation officials met with Amtrak representatives in Tallahassee this month. Amtrak Vice President Anne Witt told the group that the agency had no interest in running commuter trains, but it could link several cities' commuter and light rail systems.
Back On Track - Tampa Tribune - June 22, 2008


Judging from their recent conversations with Central Florida officials, Amtrak may not be interested in running a traditional commuter rail service in Jacksonville, yet there are still several ways for Jacksonville to benefit from embracing Amtrak's desire to expand in Florida.  These include:


Funding to relocate Amtrak Station to Downtown:

In the past, there has been concerns that due to funding issues, the proposed first phase of the Jacksonville Transportation Center could move forward without Amtrak on board.  Now that Amtrak will receive $15 billion over the next five years and with their desire to ramp up their Florida service, we now have another potential funding source to bring Amtrak back to the Jacksonville Terminal (Prime Osborn).  Station platforms that would have to built for Amtrak, could also be used as a part of a future commuter rail system.

More Amtrak, means less initial investment in local commuter rail:

If Amtrak runs more trains on the CSX A Line (Jacksonville to Orlando) and the FEC corridor (Jacksonville to Miami), this opens the door for Jacksonville using this system as a viable local commuter link between Downtown and cities such as St. Augustine, Orange Park and Green Cove Springs.  As opposed to funding an extensive commuter rail system that stretches to these communities, local officials could lobby for an additional Amtrak stop or two between Green Cove Springs and St. Augustine for example.

The money saved could enable a starter rail system to get off the ground quickly, that uses Amtrak as a complementing service linking Jacksonville with other First Coast communities.


Jacksonville to St. Augustine, via a Jacksonville to Miami route:

Rail-based passenger service between Jacksonville and St. Augustine ended over 40 years ago.  South Florida's push to return Amtrak service to the FEC corridor could benefit the First Coast by reconnecting another transportation link between St. Augustine and Jacksonville. 

Having a rail based link in place along one potential commuter rail corridor could allow us to properly phase a commuter, streetcar or light rail system here.  For example, if an Amtrak based line could operate enough trains between Jacksonville and Miami, to the point where commuters could benefit from the Jacksonville to St. Augustine link, it could be beneficial to use the S-Line as a part of the first phase to tie in Downtown with the Airport.  With that in mind, investing in only 15 miles of track could connect the Airport, Downtown, the densest neighborhoods of Jacksonville with St. Augustine and Orange Park (if we could lobby for an additional station here).


More Amtrak trains would allow use by commuters:

As mentioned earlier, frequent Amtrak service, with stations in St. Augustine and Orange Park, for example, would allow local residents to also potentially use Amtrak for commuter purposes, thus lessening the initial need for an expansive commuter rail line network, enabling extra transit dollars to fund additional needed elements in a local transportation master plan.


Cities, such as Emeryville, CA, have benefited from frequent Amtrak service by converting their stations into focal points of Transit Oriented Developments.

Transit Oriented Development: Emeryville, CA : http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/259/

(http://www.bcoolidge.com/Amtrak_76-80_Pix/Amfleet%20Express%20and%20Commuter%20Train%20at%20Boston_7_77.jpg)
Boston does it!

As Jacksonville moves forward in its quest for rail-based transit services and funding needed to help jump-start such a plan, partnering with an entity like Amtrak should be fully explored and their desire to expand in Florida should be taken advantage of.

(http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/amtSPV/amt991.jpg)
SPV 2000's Amtrak-Budd Rail Diesel Cars

NEVER BEFORE IN OUR CITY HISTORY have the cards been so much in favor of major changes to our railroad system that would send shock waves through the competition cities. We need to strike while the iron is hot!
In Central Florida, Amtrak stops or plans to stop at DELAND-SANFORD-Winter PARK-ORLANDO-KISSIMMEE all within 60 miles. Pretty sad when we only have Clifford Lane Station, so far out that it uses a South Georgia weather radar, under a highway overpass, and in-between two junk yards. No reason to think with a political and money deal, tax incentives or other perks that we couldn't get CSX, NS and FEC to play trains with us. Give them those passing tracks, over or underpasses, close a couple of crossings, and slice their tax bills and watch THEM bid to operate the commuter rail.

They are ALL in the business to move train cars and make money, it is not a stretch to see a situation where that becomes a reality again. I am looking forward to more talks with JTA's director and to the mayor and council. We are in a position of great power, we could use it to give Amtrak a strong local shock back to life, or to jump start our own hybrid system of trains. There are many ways to do it and damn, we have many railroaders right here that call Jacksonville home. With Mr. Blaylock on board, a helping hand from City Hall, I'll wager we'll see trains before Orlando... JUST DO IT JACKSONVILLE!

(http://www.daylightsales.com/images/fisher-all_roads_lead.jpg)Right over the top of that FEC streamlined train (the silver one) is a short dark shape, it's the dining car and lounge for the Gulf Coast Special. She hasn't arrived yet, but when she does, the cars will be added. They'll have signature cookies from the chef... I know, because I was there..."helping".


OCKLAWAHA

I agree Ock.  We have to act now because other places are already lining up with their hands out, looking to benefit from Amtrak's extra funding.  I fear, that this city will continue to make excuses for doing nothing immediately, which will end up with us losing another crystal clear opportunity to improve or transit network and enhance our region's quality of life.

Great analysis as always, Ock.  I always love reading your posts on Jacksonville's rail history.  You really have an encyclopedic knowledge of this area.  Also, that last painting/photo of the trains outside the old train station is great.  Where did you find it?  Also, is it a painting which can be purchased?

River, the painting hangs in my condo in Medellin... However, I'm friends with the artist, he and I grew up together in the shadow of the station. He is a wonderful guy and his prints are available. I see if I can dig out the website, he also has signed numbered prints. I know of at least 3 or 4 angles and era's of JTCO that he has done. I want to get him to do a Jacksonville Traction car racing alongside an Atlantic Coast Line train somewhere between current NAS and Ortega.  He also has a host of incredible mirror reflection photos of various local trains, The Champion, Meteor, etc... Rattle my cage in about a week (I''m moving this weekend)
and I'll fix y'all up. Anyone else?  

OCKLAWAHA

gatorback said: 

Quotethat would be great if downtown was connected to Clay and St. Augustine.

I'm sure it wouldn't cost much at all to do that.  Why can't this happen?

I very much like the idea of Amtrak doing this, and I' like to find out how we can make this happen.

My neighbors who live along Racetrack certainly would like an easy way to get downtown without having to worry about parking.