http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/morning-edition/2015/12/despite-some-success-dinner-in-downtown-remains.html?ana=fbk (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/morning-edition/2015/12/despite-some-success-dinner-in-downtown-remains.html?ana=fbk)
Although some restaurants have found success in the urban core, attracting a big dinner crowd is still a struggle for local establishments.
That lack of demand is clear in both restaurants with a long lifespan in the area, like Burrito Gallery, and the newcomers, like Super Food and Brew, a food truck that became a brick-and-mortar earlier this year........
Interesting article - it sounds like eating downtown isn't as much of a challenge as serving is. A lot of these places close before dinner due to the demand. I think that would mean there's not enough residents downtown and the businesses have caught up/surpassed.
A new resident moving to downtown vs 5 years ago would have: 2 grocery stores (I'm counting fresh market), a handful of gas stations, 24 hour convenience stores (the new 7-elevens they put in), a fair bit of new restaurants and of course, all the events that go on throughout the month/year.
What's still missing is a dry-goods store, like walgreens or even better, a target.
Give it time. Some sort of "dry-goods" store will be coming to the immediate area eventually... ;)
QuoteI think that would mean there's not enough residents downtown
Exactly and what will happen with the Laura Trio? More restaurants and more bars, at some point there will be a need to add more residences and options. We need to get back to the days when the Carling and 11E were fighting over who wanted to live there.
We need a better option for the Landing, its just sitting there collecting rust, we need to push forward on it, somehow. Its the first thing you see on the river in downtown.
Lake, do you know something you're not sharing!? :D
Anyone know the occupancy rate of the carling?
The Trio/Barnett is primarily residential and hotel. Those uses should help the retail/dining market.
QuoteThe Trio/Barnett is primarily and hotel. Those uses should help the retail/dining market.
When and IF it ever gets off the ground. At the rate its moving, Healthy Town will have been built by the time it starts.
Interesting take Stephen - what you're saying contradicts the article. They seems to have no problem getting people to eat during the day (when the parking is enforced), but it's the night that the restaurants are struggling with.
The trio really needs to happen to get some people downtown to support more dining options. As stephen said, $50 is too much to do regularly.
I think Springfield will be just fine if we can keep filling in Main Street. That's the business district of the neighborhood and the most visible to visitors. Obviously it's a problem that there's so much of Main Street to go around, it's much bigger than the business districts of Riverside, Avondale, and San Marco. I've never understood why this isn't a bigger focus for the neighborhood groups but progress does seem to be happening. Once the density is there it should be no problem.
I think that one thing that continues to affect Downtown is the growth of (some of) the surrounding neighborhoods has also led to commercial growth within those neighborhoods. In San Marco we used to have to go to Downtown or Riverside to find a good bar. Now there are a number of places within a few blocks of us plus plenty of restaurants. Downtown doesn't have enough people living there to support a substantial number of its own "neighborhood" places. I don't think that will change substantially, even with better transit and connectivity to surrounding neighborhoods, until more people are living there.
One of Main Street's challenges (outside of rehabilitation costs of many structures), is that at its height, it was sort of a regional commercial corridor before I-95 siphoned most of its traffic away. Sort of like Blanding near Orange Park today. In other words, Springfield's population density (which is still declining) can't support it alone. It needs more high density residential infill to help feed that strip.
I would LOVE to live in Downtown Jacksonville. My first post pointed out that I know very few people in this city and they are somewhat negative and at the most one sided.
I lived in San Marco for two years and loved it. Right on Palm Avenue. Employment is the only barrier to my moving from where I'm staying right now.
The nay-sayers of the downtown area is that it's too close to very dangerous neighborhoods. I don't know. I'm still after this long learning about the area. What I have seen as a problem isn't only just in Jacksonville, but many urban areas throughout the US: parking and/or the lack of or $$$$.
Does Jacksonville have a Main Street program?
^We don't have a Main St. program but I just attended a webinar for it the other day and it seems very promising. I will be bringing it up as something for DVI to look at when I go in for a meeting.
Quote from: stephendare on December 16, 2015, 09:33:36 AM
The only place this is regularly open and serves a middle market price point is Burrito Gallery, and I love the place. We've become so frequent there simply because its open at night and you can rely on the food.
How much of your dietary needs affect this POV?
Off the top of my head: BG, Chomp Chomp, Hooters, Chicago Pizza, Indochine, Pho, Casa Dora, Jenkins....
All easily $20 and less a meal.
Quote from: coredumped on December 16, 2015, 10:09:28 AM
Interesting take Stephen - what you're saying contradicts the article. They seems to have no problem getting people to eat during the day (when the parking is enforced), but it's the night that the restaurants are struggling with.
The trio really needs to happen to get some people downtown to support more dining options. As stephen said, $50 is too much to do regularly.
I find it interesting too. Nobody in their right mind in a big city goes downtown to eat. Downtown businesses rely on the following everywhere:
Office/govt workers
Hotel visitors
Day visitors (business, tourism)
Downtown residents
Jax has:
A tiny downtown with very few workers, government or otherwise
A tiny amount of hotel rooms and very few visitors (for business or pleasure)
No day visitors (very few cities, in fact, have this - you need to be a tourist mecca which Jax will never be)
Almost no DT residents
More office workers will boost lunch options. More residents and hotel rooms (that get filled) will boost nighttime options. Jax has a long way to go on either front, but I'd argue that while perhaps the parking enforcement doesn't help and should be eliminated, why believe that that alone will mean hordes of people to come downtown? There's still nothing to see or do. Very few downtowns become hangouts, day and night, for people who live outside of downtown, or who live in the burbs. This is no different for SF, Boston, Chicago, etc. All those people you see in those downtowns are a mixture of office workers and tourists, and maybe a few residents of those downtowns sprinkled in, but particularly during weekdays, not a whole lot of people milling around from local areas purposefully "eating lunch downtown for the sake of eating lunch downtown". That's a small town desperate urbanist mentality that we can all identify with in Jax, but residents of Chicago aren't trying to "add their street presence" and "prop up downtown businesses" - they are avoiding downtown for all the same reasons and going to Lakeview or staying in Naperville!
QuoteStephen - what you're saying contradicts the article.
You do know you can contact the Parking Czar, Jack Shad and discuss the parking issues you face downtown. Shhhh, a little secret, there is a busted meter on Forsyth Street in front of the old Atlantic Bank Bldg. The guts of the meter have been removed, and its FREE PARKING, till you tell Jack or the newest Parking Czar.
http://www.dupontfund.org/wp-content/uploads/duPont-MVA.pdf (http://www.dupontfund.org/wp-content/uploads/duPont-MVA.pdf)
A few people who spent a lot of time looking at the entire Job and Living situation in Jacksonville came to the simple and basic conclusion, from Page 38:
Downtown Jacksonville is a Commuter Downtown, The map on page 40 shows that people from all over the county
commute into downtown to work each day. And each day they leave. A relative few live and work right in the downtown.
For downtown to become a vibrant community, it will need a stable population of people who live there – who choose to stay and work and play in downtown.Bottom line is there needs to be more residents downtown to get the restaurants, the secondary businesses, the grocery, (heck to make the people mover viable). Gotta have the people.
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 17, 2015, 05:25:59 AM
You do know you can contact the Parking Czar, Jack Shad and discuss the parking issues you face downtown.
You do know that Jack Shad left that position a few months ago?