Phase 1 of The District (formerly Healthy Town)...
Quote(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/lead_photo_wide/12152015SouthBankTheDistrictApartments_0.jpg)
A complex described by its developers as luxury apartments with a view of the St. Johns River will begin construction of two 276-unit buildings on Jacksonville's Southbank this summer.
The District apartments will be one of three parts to the project developers have planned for the 30-acre development.
The apartments were planned by real estate developer Peter Rummell and partners Michael Balanky and Michael Munz, according to a release from Birmingham, AL, based Equity Resources LLC.
Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-12-15/story/two-5-story-luxury-apartments-planned-jacksonvilles-south-bank
gonna be awesome. Nice to see entrepreneurs and developers really take the lead, as opposed to strong arming the city on the other side of the river.
This is phase 1 of Healthy Town, correct?
Sounds great. TU Crazy comments are entertaining too as usual!
Aren't they really 7 stories when you consider that they're built over one level of retail and another level of parking? And, I count what appear to be 6 levels of residential(?) in the rendering. What am I missing?
^Good catch. I cut and paste the title from the TU. However, it does not match what's shown in the rendering. I assume the rendering, if provided by the developer, is accurate and the TU title is wrong.
I do hope so. Great to see
Earlier, simms made a great point concerning the intown apartment movement in Jax that it's not in competition with other areas of town for appartments as much as it's competing with other hot intown markets for these kind of developments. Keep in mind that just about every city in the Southeast has established a demand for these kind of units with their price points that Jax is just starting to see. Keep in mind construction and material costs doesn't make the area that much more desirable to build. That is why it's so important to start seeing pen placed to paper and actual proposals like this coming to light.
Momentum is key to keep on attracting the residential, commercial, and office demand the inner core so despearately needs so it's great to see all these recent proposals start coming to fruition. Crossing my fingers that rising interest rates won't make this a repeat of 2006, but hopefullly developers take advantage of the one thing that DT Jacksonville has going for it: That it appears to have been woefully underserved.
Nice! Hopefully this means that the financing gets lined up for that San Marco Publix!
Looks good. Make it happen!
Quote from: BoldCityRealist on December 15, 2015, 02:57:36 PM
Nice! Hopefully this means that the financing gets lined up for that San Marco Publix!
Right, though I do wonder if Healthy town will have its own grocer and would that affect the Publix deal negatively or positively. Thoughts?
I also recall that the hotel and retail components as well as the riverfront park and restaurants were also to be part of this 'phase 1'. I wonder if they are trying to secure a hotel partner or if the design and partners are a done deal and will be announced at a later date. With the Lexington under going a huge renovation next door, I would imagine that they want to get the ball rolling on the hotel construction soon and shovels turn on the apartment buildings.
Positive.
"We have got to deal with Berkman Plaza. We began investigating that in my first week," he said. "Liberty Street was one of the first questions I asked. The Jacksonville Landing is ... um. Eh. I'll leave it at that." -Lenny Curry yesterday.
Maybe it will catch on.
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on December 15, 2015, 01:12:26 PM
Momentum is key to keep on attracting the residential, commercial, and office demand the inner core so despearately needs so it's great to see all these recent proposals start coming to fruition. Crossing my fingers that rising interest rates won't make this a repeat of 2006, but hopefullly developers take advantage of the one thing that DT Jacksonville has going for it: That it appears to have been woefully underserved.
Momentum is everything to these folks. Jax also has something that places like Charlotte, Atlanta, or Orlando do not have, and that is AN AMAZING view of the river and true natural beauty. I think, with some smart visionary leadership, there is no reason why Jax should not experience the same growth St. Pete is seeing (again natural beauty) down south. They don't have near the employment base we do and they are putting up a 42 story condo tower currently. St. Pete used to be as dead as a door nail 10 years ago.
QuoteRight, though I do wonder if Healthy town will have its own grocer and would that affect the Publix deal negatively or positively. Thoughts?
From what I can see, there were no plans for that. San Marco could see it get done finally.
With Broadstone, this, and what is occuring in Brooklyn, things could be looking up residential wise. It would be nice to see just some continuous walkable development on the Southbank from San Marco Square up to DT.
Quote from: FlaBoy on December 16, 2015, 11:03:19 AM
Momentum is everything to these folks. Jax also has something that places like Charlotte, Atlanta, or Orlando do not have, and that is AN AMAZING view of the river and true natural beauty.
People can't live off of natural beauty. We need to keep bringing jobs to jax, or else local projects are just competing with each other for tenants. I think that if The District does well, Balanky will try to finish building out Kings Avenue Station, which initially had a small grocery component. That would help with the continuous growth from the Square to the Southbank.
Of course. But DT SP has very few jobs compared to even Jax in its DT. Most jobs are in Tampa or Gateway. Jax should definitely work on getting more jobs DT, but you have to think about what makes you desirable/unique and it really is the natural beauty of DT/San Marco/Brooklyn/Riverside in comparison to some other cities in the South.
I don't think there's lack of demand for downtown housing. There's a lack of available options. The options that are there are essentially full. Unfortunately, it's been difficult to get new housing off the the ground. Hopefully what's happening in Brooklyn will spread.
I agree demand is there. So just wondering why supply has not kept up. What is different about the "economics" in DT Jax versus say Charlotte. Is it land costs, or low rents, or no local capital. Has city incentives actually slowed the process? Usually supply and demand work.
I think that local real-estate/apartment developers are too skidish on DT still and don't understand the large demand because they are still so focused on the TC boom. Developers from other cities just haven't had Jax on their radar so it has been very slow going. I think there is a shift happening and more projects will be planned but it is still slow. Things like the Trio really have to get underway to roundup confidence in the market. 2016 is a make or break year for DT IMO
Quote from: jaxjags on December 16, 2015, 12:23:45 PM
I agree demand is there. So just wondering why supply has not kept up. What is different about the "economics" in DT Jax versus say Charlotte. Is it land costs, or low rents, or no local capital. Has city incentives actually slowed the process? Usually supply and demand work.
For one thing, compared to a lot of places there never were many people living in Downtown Jacksonville, dating back to the Great Fire. It was supported by being the central hub for the wider city, so when folks moved out to the suburbs, Downtown became the hole in the donut, except for offices and public amenities. There are probably more people living downtown today than there were 100 years ago.
Adding residential now means either an expensive conversion of a non-residential building, or even more expensive new construction. The demand that exists for downtown housing largely isn't enough to command the rents that would meet the expenses on a wide scale, without city incentives. It's easy to forget, but we had success with that in the 90s and early 2000s (the Southbank towers, 11E, the Carling, etc., all went up within the last 10 years or so). Unfortunately there hasn't been much followthrough or vision since then. That's a difference between us and Charlotte. Charlotte has invested a TON in Uptown and the surrounding area, and they've stayed on point. We fell off the wagon even before the Great Recession. Fortunately, there've been signs of life the last two or three years.
Quote from: FlaBoy on December 16, 2015, 11:43:05 AM
Of course. But DT SP has very few jobs compared to even Jax in its DT. Most jobs are in Tampa or Gateway. Jax should definitely work on getting more jobs DT, but you have to think about what makes you desirable/unique and it really is the natural beauty of DT/San Marco/Brooklyn/Riverside in comparison to some other cities in the South.
Staying in DT St. Pete and commuting to Gateway is like living in the southside and commuting to DT Jax. A commute to DT Tampa or Westshore would be like living in Bartram Park or Northern St. Johns and commuting to DT Jax. A few things DT St. Pete did have in its turnaround, when compared to DT Jax, were compactness, density and political direction. At only 61 square miles, fully built-out and unable to expand outward, it's easier for local politicians to see and invest in its primary revenue generating neighborhood. With that said, DT Jax probably needs a mix of everything it can get its hands on.
QuoteThere are probably more people living downtown today than there were 100 years ago.
Really? Then why did Godbold build the silly people mover in the 1980s? The whole idea was to help the residents and people downtown be able to move about downtown safely and efficiently. Forget the boondoggle it has become, but if the people had stayed and expanded more of downtown and added more residences, the people mover would have been more of a success than the current state.
Actual Facts from Visit Jacksonville:
QuoteThe fire of 1901, sparked from a chimney and igniting a fiber factory, destroyed the heart of the city - 466 acres and 2,368 buildings were destroyed, 8,677 residents were left homeless.
In 1901, there were almost 9,000 residents, about the same as today as most figures put the number below 10,000
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 17, 2015, 05:47:14 AM
QuoteThere are probably more people living downtown today than there were 100 years ago.
Really? Then why did Godbold build the silly people mover in the 1980s? The whole idea was to help the residents and people downtown be able to move about downtown safely and efficiently. Forget the boondoggle it has become, but if the people had stayed and expanded more of downtown and added more residences, the people mover would have been more of a success than the current state.
Actual Facts from Visit Jacksonville:
QuoteThe fire of 1901, sparked from a chimney and igniting a fiber factory, destroyed the heart of the city - 466 acres and 2,368 buildings were destroyed, 8,677 residents were left homeless.
In 1901, there were almost 9,000 residents, about the same as today as most figures put the number below 10,000
Two things here. One is that, as I said, the Great Fire was when it changed. After that, most residents moved to the surrounding neighborhoods and the core of Downtown was rebuilt primarily for commercial and work uses. The other is that the definition of "Downtown" has changed. There were still people in LaVilla, Brooklyn, the Cathedral District and the present-day stadium district, which tend to be considered downtown today, so there was a greater core of people nearby to support the commercial center. Those areas declined after World War II, as did all of the surrounding areas north and west of town. Meanwhile, the suburbs grew, the downtown commercial core evaporated, and eventually the population of workers declined as well. Today there are only about 2000 people living in the core of Downtown and 4000 in the entire CBD.
Btw, the Northbank core of the CDB had less than 160 residents in 1975. At the time the Skyway was proposed, the DDA was predicting that the population would increase to 18k by 1990.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 17, 2015, 08:45:43 AM
Btw, the Northbank core of the CDB had less than 160 residents in 1975. At the time the Skyway was proposed, the DDA was predicting that the population would increase to 18k by 1990.
There were also a lot more workers at the time, it was supposed to be expanded, etc. etc.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 16, 2015, 01:34:35 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on December 16, 2015, 11:43:05 AM
Of course. But DT SP has very few jobs compared to even Jax in its DT. Most jobs are in Tampa or Gateway. Jax should definitely work on getting more jobs DT, but you have to think about what makes you desirable/unique and it really is the natural beauty of DT/San Marco/Brooklyn/Riverside in comparison to some other cities in the South.
Staying in DT St. Pete and commuting to Gateway is like living in the southside and commuting to DT Jax. A commute to DT Tampa or Westshore would be like living in Bartram Park or Northern St. Johns and commuting to DT Jax. A few things DT St. Pete did have in its turnaround, when compared to DT Jax, were compactness, density and political direction. At only 61 square miles, fully built-out and unable to expand outward, it's easier for local politicians to see and invest in its primary revenue generating neighborhood. With that said, DT Jax probably needs a mix of everything it can get its hands on.
For sure. You are 100% right on the political will of St. Pete. But the city was built out completely nearly 30 years ago and even with the political will, (which included building the Dome DT with no franchise) there was not really any significant movement until Rick Baker took over as Mayor and made it his quest to reinvigorate Beach Dr. and Central. DT St. Pete, for the most part, was still a ghost town even 5 years ago. But once Beach became the place to be for restaurants and Central had a strip of bars, and everyone began to realize how beautiful DT SP is, there has really been tremendous growth. The bar and restaurant scene is probably the best in DT SP(as a combination) other than maybe Miami and Ft. Lauderdale. Baker was smart though because everyone from Pinellas used to go over to Ybor and Soho in Tampa, but he saw the demand in Pinellas for a nightlife and he made it his quest to provide it. The amenities are what drove everyone to DT SP (including the natural beauty).
Damn good points, FlaBoy.
Most of the country's major urban cores were in bad shape diring the 60s, 70s and 80s. I still remember race riots happening in St Pete's core back when I was in high school down there in the early 90s. Great things have happened in St. Pete since those days of me and my boys trying to hook up with girls near DT. Back then, the only thing worth going to was the Dali museum. St. Pete is one of several cities that successfully rode the urban revitalization wave of the 1990s and early 2000s. I'm still amazed that Jax is one of the few that didn't.
With all of that said, I remember nightlife and dining on Central taking off years after thousands of condo units started popping up in and around DT St. Pete. Also, worth mentioning is that city was one of the first in Florida to start retrofitting its street network for cyclist and pedestrians. Combine those investments with lots of parks and cheap available aged building stock and what you have there now happens.