The Atlanta City Council has approved a new Streetcar System Plan, which includes five crosstown routes in addition to 22 miles of streetcar service along the Beltline.
All totaled, the plan consists of a 50-plus mile streetcar system throughout the city. The document will serve as a framework for a potential Fulton County referendum in 2016 seeking approval from voters to impose an additional penny or fractional penny sales tax to fund transportation projects. Having the plan in place also enables the city to apply for large scale federal transportation funding.
(https://cmgajccommuting.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/atlanta-streetcar-system-routes-120815.jpg?w=640)
http://commuting.blog.ajc.com/2015/12/09/atlanta-approves-streetcar-expansion-plan/
^^I agree.
Maybe they think 'second-best' will carry the day.
I believe we are confusing things. I no longer live there, obviously, but from my recollection, and I was somewhat in tune with the happenings, the TSPLOST referendum in 2012 was very very different.
For one, Atlanta (city) and Fulton County were linked to a defined voter region that included a lot of suburban counties. Simultaneously, other "regions" of GA were linked together for their own laundry list of transportation improvement projects. Some regions passed theirs, and others, including Atlanta's, did not.
Atlanta's included very little, some what-ifs at best, for new MARTA lines or serious upgrades. It did include an item for a rail line out to Emory on the Clifton corridor, but it was undecided if that would be MARTA heavy rail, light rail, or even BRT. It DID include A LOT of $$ to build and implement a light rail/streetcar network that centered on crossing Midtown/Downtown and circling the urban core on the Beltline.
Potential reasons why it likely failed:
1a) Suburban voters were generally anti-transit and pro-road, and felt there were not enough road projects (and too many transit projects)
1b) Additionally, they thought there was an imbalance with more money allocated to Atlanta and not enough to the higher growth suburban counties
2) There was and probably still is a general distrust of management of such a slush fund, especially for transit authorities/agencies that have/had a horrible history of misappropriation and mismanagement
3)
4)
5)
There were so many reasons, many of them sound, not to vote for this. Interestingly enough, nearly everyone in the City of Atlanta who voted that day, voted in favor. Almost the exact opposite by the time you got out to Cherokee County and those like it.
Turn the page to today, what I believe they're talking about now are Atlanta and Fulton County specific taxes/referendums. Atlanta voters have voted and polled, time and time again, that they are very very much in favor of being taxed more for better transit.
What they're talking about doing here is absolutely nothing new to those who would possibly be voting on it, and absolutely nothing controversial. I expect any city-centric votes to build streetcars and/or expand MARTA to pass with super majorities.
And don't forget that MARTA is already being expanded through northern Fulton County. They are already constructing many more miles and 3-5 new stations north of North Springs (up into Roswell/Alpharetta).
For the south, Atlanta is super progressive with transit. Countrywide, if all of this gets going, Atlanta will be one of only a few cities adding substantial new routes to its system. Most cities with existing systems are barely maintaining what they have, let alone building more.
Quote from: simms3 on December 14, 2015, 10:36:39 PM
Most cities with existing systems are barely maintaining what they have, let alone building more.
Is that true? I obviously don't have the low-down on all the subway systems around the USA, but I'm pretty sure that DC, Chicago and Boston are all looking at expansion and upgrades.
Whatever it is, I hope they include something that will take people (LOTS of people) to the new SunTrust ballpark. Marta doesn't come within 10-ish miles of that place, and traffic at 75 and the loop will be a nightmare. It already is, but on game nights, ... yikes.
Quote from: Adam White on December 15, 2015, 08:11:33 AM
Quote from: simms3 on December 14, 2015, 10:36:39 PM
Most cities with existing systems are barely maintaining what they have, let alone building more.
Is that true? I obviously don't have the low-down on all the subway systems around the USA, but I'm pretty sure that DC, Chicago and Boston are all looking at expansion and upgrades.
The only cities that I know of that are actively expanding their systems are DC, Bay Area, LA, and NYC. Have not heard a peep out of Boston or Chicago.
Quote from: simms3 on December 15, 2015, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: Adam White on December 15, 2015, 08:11:33 AM
Quote from: simms3 on December 14, 2015, 10:36:39 PM
Most cities with existing systems are barely maintaining what they have, let alone building more.
Is that true? I obviously don't have the low-down on all the subway systems around the USA, but I'm pretty sure that DC, Chicago and Boston are all looking at expansion and upgrades.
The only cities that I know of that are actively expanding their systems are DC, Bay Area, LA, and NYC. Have not heard a peep out of Boston or Chicago.
I thought Boston was upgrading the Government Center station and is expanding its commuter rail services. Here's what Wikipedia lists for the L:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_%22L%22#Renovation_and_expansion_plans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_%22L%22#Renovation_and_expansion_plans)
Quote from: Adam White on December 15, 2015, 10:31:55 AM
Quote from: simms3 on December 15, 2015, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: Adam White on December 15, 2015, 08:11:33 AM
Quote from: simms3 on December 14, 2015, 10:36:39 PM
Most cities with existing systems are barely maintaining what they have, let alone building more.
Is that true? I obviously don't have the low-down on all the subway systems around the USA, but I'm pretty sure that DC, Chicago and Boston are all looking at expansion and upgrades.
The only cities that I know of that are actively expanding their systems are DC, Bay Area, LA, and NYC. Have not heard a peep out of Boston or Chicago.
I thought Boston was upgrading the Government Center station and is expanding its commuter rail services. Here's what Wikipedia lists for the L:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_%22L%22#Renovation_and_expansion_plans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_%22L%22#Renovation_and_expansion_plans)
While that says plans for this and studies for that, with very little actually happening in the way of capital projects, DC just built and is extending the Silver Line, NYC just built a new line up 2nd Ave, LA is very ambitious with their projects with so much under construction now, and BART is being extended to San Jose and MUNI is wrapping up on a new central subway line (and both MUNI and BART are getting all new trains).
I believe MARTA's extension is actually under construction now, which would make it one of only a few systems *actively* expanding and not just upgrading stations or reconfiguring headways.
Quote from: simms3 on December 15, 2015, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: Adam White on December 15, 2015, 10:31:55 AM
Quote from: simms3 on December 15, 2015, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: Adam White on December 15, 2015, 08:11:33 AM
Quote from: simms3 on December 14, 2015, 10:36:39 PM
Most cities with existing systems are barely maintaining what they have, let alone building more.
Is that true? I obviously don't have the low-down on all the subway systems around the USA, but I'm pretty sure that DC, Chicago and Boston are all looking at expansion and upgrades.
The only cities that I know of that are actively expanding their systems are DC, Bay Area, LA, and NYC. Have not heard a peep out of Boston or Chicago.
I thought Boston was upgrading the Government Center station and is expanding its commuter rail services. Here's what Wikipedia lists for the L:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_%22L%22#Renovation_and_expansion_plans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_%22L%22#Renovation_and_expansion_plans)
While that says plans for this and studies for that, with very little actually happening in the way of capital projects, DC just built and is extending the Silver Line, NYC just built a new line up 2nd Ave, LA is very ambitious with their projects with so much under construction now, and BART is being extended to San Jose and MUNI is wrapping up on a new central subway line (and both MUNI and BART are getting all new trains).
I believe MARTA's extension is actually under construction now, which would make it one of only a few systems *actively* expanding and not just upgrading stations or reconfiguring headways.
Oh, okay.
It just seemed like Boston, DC and Chicago were doing more than "barely maintaining" their existing systems.
Quote from: simms3 on December 15, 2015, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: Adam White on December 15, 2015, 08:11:33 AM
Quote from: simms3 on December 14, 2015, 10:36:39 PM
Most cities with existing systems are barely maintaining what they have, let alone building more.
Is that true? I obviously don't have the low-down on all the subway systems around the USA, but I'm pretty sure that DC, Chicago and Boston are all looking at expansion and upgrades.
The only cities that I know of that are actively expanding their systems are DC, Bay Area, LA, and NYC. Have not heard a peep out of Boston or Chicago.
Also Houston, Dallas, St Louis, and Seattle. Probably others but those are the ones I can think of.
NOT! Here's a current list of ongoing projects.
PROJECT - CITY - MODE - RIDERSHIP PROJECTION - MILES
Baltimore Red Line Baltimore MD Light Rail 2,900,000,000 14.1
Green Line Extension (College Avenue Branch) Boston MA Light Rail 1,300,000,000 4.3
Green Line Extension (Union Square Branch) Boston MA Light Rail 1,300,000,000 4.3
Blue Line Extension Charlotte NC Light Rail 1,160,000,000 9.3
CityLYNX Gold Line Phase 1 Charlotte NC Streetcar 37,000,000 1.5
Cincinnati Streetcar Phase 1 Cincinnati OH Streetcar 147,810,000 1.8
South Oak Cliff Blue Line Extension Dallas TX Light Rail 240,000,000 2.6
Oak Cliff Streetcar Dallas TX Streetcar 101,000,000 1.9
I-225 Rail Line Denver CO Light Rail 350,000,000 10.5
M-1 Rail Detroit MI Streetcar 137,000,000 3.3
Metro Line (North LRT to NAIT) Edmonton AB Light Rail 711,000,000 2.1
Línea 3 Guadalajara MX Light Rail 4,472,148,000 13
East End Line Phase 1 Houston TX Light Rail 390,000,000 3.3
East End Line Phase 2 Houston TX Light Rail
Southeast Line Houston TX Light Rail 822,919,000 6.6
Kansas City Streetcar Kansas City MO Streetcar 102,500,000 2
Crenshaw Line Los Angeles CA Light Rail 2,058,000,000 8.5
Expo Line Phase 2 Los Angeles CA Light Rail 1,500,000,000 6.6
Gold Line Foothill Extension to Azusa Los Angeles CA Light Rail 735,000,000 11.3
Regional Connector Los Angeles CA Light Rail 1,366,000,000 1.9
Milwaukee Streetcar Milwaukee WI Streetcar 123,900,000 2.3
Línea 2 Monterrey MX Light Rail 438,925,905 4.7
French Quarter Streetcar New Orleans LA Streetcar 75,000,000 2.5
Oklahoma City Streetcar Oklahoma City OK Streetcar 94,400,000 2.3
Confederation Line Ottawa ON Light Rail 1,977,960,000 7.7
Central Mesa Extension Phoenix AZ Light Rail 199,010,443 3.1
Gilbert Road Extension Phoenix AZ Light Rail 161,700,000 1.9
Northwest Phase 1 Phoenix AZ Light Rail 326,591,900 3.1
Central Loop Streetcar via Tilikum Crossing Portland Streetcar
Portland-Milwaukie Light Rail (Orange Line) Portland OR Light Rail 1,495,000,000 7.3
Blue Line Sacramento CA Light Rail 270,000,000 4.3
Mid-Coast Corridor Transit San Diego CA Light Rail 1,984,690,000 10.9
Novotren San Juan PR Light Rail 550,000,000 17
Northgate Link Seattle WA Light Rail 2,100,000,000 4.3
South 200th Link Extension Seattle WA Light Rail 383,000,000 1.6
University Link Seattle WA Light Rail 1,947,682,000 3.15
First Hill Streetcar Seattle WA Streetcar 134,000,000 2.5
Loop Trolley St. Louis MO Streetcar 44,000,000 2.2
Eglinton Crosstown Toronto ON Light Rail 4,990,000,000 11.8
Purple Line Washington DC Light Rail 2,450,000,000 16.2
Anacostia Initial Line Washington DC Streetcar 54,000,000 1.1
H Street/Benning Road Streetcar Washington DC Streetcar 161,000,000 2.4
ION Light Rail Transit Phase 1 Waterloo ON Light Rail 770,000,000 11.8
FUNDED:
CityLYNX Gold Line Phase 2 Charlotte NC Streetcar 2.5
Valley Line - Stage 1 Edmonton AB Light Rail 8.1
The Wave Fort Lauderdale FL Streetcar 2.7
Downtown Streetcar Los Angeles CA Streetcar
Southwest Corridor LRT Minneapolis MN Light Rail 16
Nicollet-Central Modern Streetcar Minneapolis MN Streetcar 3.4
Capitol/I-10 West Extension Phoenix AZ Light Rail 11
Tempe Streetcar Phoenix AZ Streetcar 3
Providence Streetcar Providence RI Streetcar 2.1
Riverfront Streetcar Sacramento CA Streetcar 1.2
Meanwhile Jacksonville is getting a handful of new buses and officials are asking us at MJ; "How is it that a streetcar can compare to our modern 21St Century BRT system..." REALLY! Somebody PLEASE get these guys out of Duval for a couple of weeks, the experience could be eye opening.