From the Luminaria Facebook event page.
Quote
The parade and happenings that occur on St. Johns Avenue (and surrounding streets) has grown organically, and are not organized or sanctioned by RAP. In recent years, concerns have been raised about the safety, traffic, and public behavior; some of which violates both City and State laws.
As a community organization seeking to ensure a safe and enjoyable Luminaria evening for everyone, RAP has been meeting with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office (JSO) to address concerns. These meetings resulted in the conclusion that in the interest of public safety there is no way to safely allow the parade on St. Johns Avenue to continue in violation of state and city laws.
Beginning this year, the JSO will increase enforcement in the neighborhood and will not allow the following:
• Individuals riding in the back of trucks or trailers (F.S.S. 316.2015)
• Littering - From a vehicle or from person ( F.S.S. 403.413)
• Riding ATVs on public roads
• Open containers of alcoholic beverages
Riverside Avondale Preservation invites the public to come out and enjoy Luminaria on December 20th. Those visiting are asked to be respectful of property owners and not litter or throw candy; and to operate their vehicles in a safe and legal manner. The historic district is very walkable and bike friendly, and residents and visitors are encouraged to take advantage of this. With the help from the residents and visitors alike, Luminaria will be a fun evening for all.
Many commenters are not happy. I like the trucks/trailers/floats, but I could do without the candy throwing. I always bike the event which apparently grants someone license to pelt me with hard candy. I have no problem with throwing marshmallows but the hard candy is a dick move.
I agree, but this still sucks! I was looking forward to the parade. I will still enjoy a nice night of biking around the neighborhood looking at the luminaries.
The Luminaria event was never intended to be a barnyardesque bare your ass in public event. It has become this, as the JSO has done nothing, until this year, to crack down on people, outside of Riverside and Avondale (because you see soooo many trailers on a daily basis in Riverside Avondale), from acting like asses in the Bud Zone at a Jags game. At the rate it was going, someone was bound to get hurt, then sue the city (since this is not a RAP sponsored event) and then the whole event would go down the toilet.
Good for the JSO to crack down on the derelicts. Oh, and if you are biking, make sure your LIGHTS work on the front and back. It would really suck to get a ticket for failing to have the proper riding equipment.
I'll be that guy with the water hose to spray you down, should you think about launching candy towards me. ;D
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 01, 2015, 02:46:07 AM
The Luminaria event was never intended to be a barnyardesque bare your ass in public event. It has become this, as the JSO has done nothing, until this year, to crack down on people, outside of Riverside and Avondale (because you see soooo many trailers on a daily basis in Riverside Avondale), from acting like asses in the Bud Zone at a Jags game. At the rate it was going, someone was bound to get hurt, then sue the city (since this is not a RAP sponsored event) and then the whole event would go down the toilet.
Good for the JSO to crack down on the derelicts. Oh, and if you are biking, make sure your LIGHTS work on the front and back. It would really suck to get a ticket for failing to have the proper riding equipment.
I'll be that guy with the water hose to spray you down, should you think about launching candy towards me. ;D
"I'll be that guy with the water hose to spray you down, should you think about launching candy towards me. ;D" Your part of the problem you better be sure who you hit with the water hose bubba or assault charges could be filed on you!
This is a shame. The event was tons of fun in years past.
Last year I played Christmas tunes from a trailer with a full band being towed by a truck with a fake snow machine.
I didn't see any "barnyardesque ass bearing" but, I guess that's what you get from a neighborhood that once believed Mellow Mushroom was the bringer of the apocalypse.
Quote from: johnnyliar on December 01, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
This is a shame. The event was tons of fun in years past.
Last year I played Christmas tunes from a trailer with a full band being towed by a truck with a fake snow machine.
I didn't see any "barnyardesque ass bearing" but, I guess that's what you get from a neighborhood that once believed Mellow Mushroom was the bringer of the apocalypse.
A lot of this sounds like the dicks in RAP trying to keep "their" neighborhood "exclusive" or whatever. They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook.
That's not to say there might not be issues - but it seems like RAP is overstepping, once again.
This event is a lot of fun, but it has gotten to be a bit of a mess. It's probably wise that JSO is going to step in on some of the more problematic behaviors.
I've never been, but everything I hear about it sounds like it's pretty much become a shit show. Looks like all JSO is doing is enforcing existing laws. I don't really blame them.
Quote from: Adam White on December 01, 2015, 08:42:03 AM
Quote from: johnnyliar on December 01, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
This is a shame. The event was tons of fun in years past.
Last year I played Christmas tunes from a trailer with a full band being towed by a truck with a fake snow machine.
I didn't see any "barnyardesque ass bearing" but, I guess that's what you get from a neighborhood that once believed Mellow Mushroom was the bringer of the apocalypse.
A lot of this sounds like the dicks in RAP trying to keep "their" neighborhood "exclusive" or whatever. They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook.
That's not to say there might not be issues - but it seems like RAP is overstepping, once again.
Luminary used to be a lot of fun for the neighborhood (frankly, last year was the first year we did not even bother putting out luminaries as we were sick of supporting it). I am sure there are many folks in the neighborhood that still enjoy it but many I talk with hate what it has become. It's a mess. We end up with trash throughout the neighborhood. And, eventually, someone (probably a kid) will be seriously injured. I am glad they are cracking down.
Quote from: MEGATRON on December 01, 2015, 10:47:17 AM
Quote from: Adam White on December 01, 2015, 08:42:03 AM
Quote from: johnnyliar on December 01, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
This is a shame. The event was tons of fun in years past.
Last year I played Christmas tunes from a trailer with a full band being towed by a truck with a fake snow machine.
I didn't see any "barnyardesque ass bearing" but, I guess that's what you get from a neighborhood that once believed Mellow Mushroom was the bringer of the apocalypse.
A lot of this sounds like the dicks in RAP trying to keep "their" neighborhood "exclusive" or whatever. They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook.
That's not to say there might not be issues - but it seems like RAP is overstepping, once again.
Luminary used to be a lot of fun for the neighborhood (frankly, last year was the first year we did not even bother putting out luminaries as we were sick of supporting it). I am sure there are many folks in the neighborhood that still enjoy it but many I talk with hate what it has become. It's a mess. We end up with trash throughout the neighborhood. And, eventually, someone (probably a kid) will be seriously injured. I am glad they are cracking down.
Fair enough. It's weird to think it has become so big. I remember the first time I went (I think it was 1990) and it was quite restrained. Even the last time I did it - I was living on St Johns near Publix and put out luminaries - it was still pretty low-key. That was 2002, I think.
Quote from: acme54321 on December 01, 2015, 10:06:47 AM
I've never been, but everything I hear about it sounds like it's pretty much become a shit show. Looks like all JSO is doing is enforcing existing laws. I don't really blame them.
Yes the jso officers are better off to be in full force at a Luminaries parade then to take control of the many shootings in the Jacksonville Florida area that happen nightly. Or will it be the Community Officers doing this job?
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on December 01, 2015, 10:54:48 AMYes the jso officers are better off to be in full force at a Luminaries parade then to take control of the many shootings in the Jacksonville Florida area that happen nightly. Or will it be the Community Officers doing this job?
::)
[quote
[/quote]
They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook.
[/quote]
Yepper! I have barely managed to be included these past twenty years.
Indeed,the event was 'better' in the past. Like someone else has noted here,last year we did not even bother with putting Luminary out,and it was quite obvious many other neighbors were also so inclined.
One of the neatest things ever was a bike parade a couple of years ago. L O N G chain of bike riders.
Quote from: Adam White on December 01, 2015, 08:42:03 AM
Quote from: johnnyliar on December 01, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
This is a shame. The event was tons of fun in years past.
Last year I played Christmas tunes from a trailer with a full band being towed by a truck with a fake snow machine.
I didn't see any "barnyardesque ass bearing" but, I guess that's what you get from a neighborhood that once believed Mellow Mushroom was the bringer of the apocalypse.
A lot of this sounds like the dicks in RAP trying to keep "their" neighborhood "exclusive" or whatever. They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook.
That's not to say there might not be issues - but it seems like RAP is overstepping, once again.
The way things have been going lately with their stance on hassling restaurants, I'd be inclined to agree with you, except I can't on this one. It's gotten out of control. A couple years ago, some redneck riding in the back of a truck pelted me with jollyranchers when I drove by (top was down). That pissed me off bad enough (jollyranchers hurt when you throw them hard), but worse was finding jollyranchers halfway melted into the carpets in that car until I got rid of it. All around just a total dick move.
Last year walking down there, there were drunk idiots in a trailer being towed behind a truck, apparently got in a fight with somebody, they were yelling faggot, pussy, etc., at people on the sidewalk with kids around everywhere. That's also the year I noticed a bunch of the visitors, or whatever you want to call them, brought potato guns and super soakers that they'd shoot at you with from the back of the trucks/trailers. It's become christmas-themed paintball lately.
None of this behavior comes from the floats or the people I recognize that live here. It's people I don't recognize doing this stuff while riding in the backs of trucks. It really has gotten problematic the last few years. I don't go anymore.
I was there three years ago and I agree with the stance on the candy tossing/littering. I decided to take the Vette out one night and ended up on St. Johns not knowing what I was getting myself into... Luckily I just has to scrape gum off my car, no damage. But Ive been back since and loved watching the floats! If JSO is paid to be out there anyway, couldnt they just ticket people for throwing candy? Is that the only problem everyone has about this parade?
Regardless, im interested to see Luminaria this year. From what Ive heard from RAP, it will still be a nice event.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on December 01, 2015, 01:16:30 PM
Quote from: Adam White on December 01, 2015, 08:42:03 AM
Quote from: johnnyliar on December 01, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
This is a shame. The event was tons of fun in years past.
Last year I played Christmas tunes from a trailer with a full band being towed by a truck with a fake snow machine.
I didn't see any "barnyardesque ass bearing" but, I guess that's what you get from a neighborhood that once believed Mellow Mushroom was the bringer of the apocalypse.
A lot of this sounds like the dicks in RAP trying to keep "their" neighborhood "exclusive" or whatever. They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook.
That's not to say there might not be issues - but it seems like RAP is overstepping, once again.
The way things have been going lately with their stance on hassling restaurants, I'd be inclined to agree with you, except I can't on this one. It's gotten out of control. A couple years ago, some redneck riding in the back of a truck pelted me with jollyranchers when I drove by (top was down). That pissed me off bad enough (jollyranchers hurt when you throw them hard), but worse was finding jollyranchers halfway melted into the carpets in that car until I got rid of it. All around just a total dick move.
Last year walking down there, there were drunk idiots in a trailer being towed behind a truck, apparently got in a fight with somebody, they were yelling faggot, pussy, etc., at people on the sidewalk with kids around everywhere. That's also the year I noticed a bunch of the visitors, or whatever you want to call them, brought potato guns and super soakers that they'd shoot at you with from the back of the trucks/trailers. It's become christmas-themed paintball lately.
None of this behavior comes from the floats or the people I recognize that live here. It's people I don't recognize doing this stuff while riding in the backs of trucks. It really has gotten problematic the last few years. I don't go anymore.
Point taken. That sucks.
Quote from: Know Growth on December 01, 2015, 12:35:54 PM
One of the neatest things ever was a bike parade a couple of years ago. L O N G chain of bike riders.
IMO the bike parade is really the funnest way to experience Luminaria and enjoy the sights of the neighborhood.
Here's a video from 2008; I don't think there's been a police escort or even an "official" organized bike ride the past several years which I'm sure has added to the candy hurling mayhem:
https://youtu.be/fAt8gLIDG9Y (https://youtu.be/fAt8gLIDG9Y)
Edit:
This clip really shows off the number of people on bikes that year:
https://youtu.be/auc-71e7Ja8?t=5m3s (https://youtu.be/auc-71e7Ja8?t=5m3s)
It would be a damn shame to see this event wither away because of a few sociopathic a*holes who think throwing candy or shooting water or potato guns at strangers during a public gathering is a perfectly normal and rational thing to do to celebrate the holidays.
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 01, 2015, 02:46:07 AM
At the rate it was going, someone was bound to get hurt, then sue the city (since this is not a RAP sponsored event) and then the whole event would go down the toilet.
So RAP makes tens of thousands of dollars from selling the kits (I helped to make and sell kits last year, they make tons), but they claim no responsibility for the goings on? That seems like a pretty convenient stance to take. They make it seem like your civic duty to buy a set of bags, but then they wipe their hands of the consequences when it they succeed at their jobs.
The aggressiveness of people either throwing hard candy or yelling obscenities has made me avoid St Johns for the last couple years. Cutting across it to get to Richmond st and back along the river is the only reason I go near it. The parade as it currently exists has a whole different feel than what I want to get out of luminaries.
I do agree that the bike is the way to go. You can see more this way than in a car since traffic gets bottled up. The organized rides were stopped a couple years ago due to the issues that they are trying to deal with by changing the rules this year.
This is an MJ post from 2013.
Quote from: blfair on December 10, 2013, 02:19:19 PM
In my inbox this afternoon:
Quote
We have gotten many questions about the bicycle ride to see the Riverside Avondale Luminaria which has been a popular event in the neighborhood for over twenty years.
In the last few years Luminaria has become chaotic and unsafe. The JSO Officers that we spoke to about the event fully agree.
CityCycle is not promoting or participating in a Luminaria bike ride this year - it would be irresponsible to do so.
It would be devastating to see someone get hurt and rescue vehicles not be able to get to them because of the complete gridlock we have seen the last couple of years. The event is certainly not safe for kids! Children are hanging out car windows, standing on running boards, riding on hoods, etc. The number of cars, illegal trailers, horse wagons, monster trucks, and people throwing stuff has become crazy!! A double decker swamp buggy even polluted the streets last year. JSO officers say they could stop and ticket hundreds of violations. "They are unable to control things." It has become a disaster. Last year was the worst ever. This once was a nice, pleasant, peaceful evening to see the Christmas lights. It is far from that now. Two years ago I had to drive a cyclist to the emergency room after he was beat up by three young motorists. It is a shame. Residents are upset and have complained about the trash and people throwing things. There have also been complaints about bicycle riding on the wrong side of the road, through yards, and running over luminaries, etc.
Several officers have suggested closing St. Johns Avenue down to car traffic. But that will be up to the residents and RAP (Riverside Avondale Preservation).
Everyone is free to make the best of the evening and to be careful. Hopefully something will be done soon to make it a nice event. Maybe JSO will step up patrols to ticket many of the bad apples who have ruined this wonderful event.
Thanks
Drew
Maybe the JSO patrol following Pellot and Duckworth, or possibly zone commander.Gayle could lead and bookend a bike parade?
Does anyone want to set some departure/destination/route :)/timeline info in an effort to gather enough bike riders?
Bike lights can be hilarious
Who's in?
I might agree with Capt. Z to the extent of saying that the RAP sponsored event has turned out to be a victim of its own success, but to say that RAP should be responsible for cleaning up a mess that it never intended and that has resulted from the marginal behavior of others, is not reasonable. That behavior has gotten worse year by year, and it definitely was long past due to curb - no pun intended - it. The folks who allow truck beds or trailers to be occupied by small children and inebriates have been lucky so far that a serous injury has not occurred, but if that goes on long enough sooner or later the luck will run out.
My bottom line is this: No one asked anyone to intrude on an event that was intended to showcase a beautiful and serene visual spectacle, with hooting, hollering, horse shit, and hay all over the area. Let's go back to the way it was to begin with.
L O N G Bike Parade a Wonderful Component.
Too many have taken a Giant Bite out of the Avondale Commons.
L O N G bike parade,in fact 'long established', is, well.... Wonderful. 8)
Let's do it!!!!,Again 8)
L O N G (weird word if you think about it,or even if you do not.....)
Long,as in ten minutes (+,an eternity even here in supposed Avondale Cycling Nirvana.... :) )as we traverse from North to South,and thence South to North,maybe even criss-crossing St Johns Avenue 8)
Quote from: ricker on December 01, 2015, 02:49:07 PM
Maybe the JSO patrol following Pellot and Duckworth, or possibly zone commander.Gayle could lead and bookend a bike parade?
Does anyone want to set some departure/destination/route :)/timeline info in an effort to gather enough bike riders?
Bike lights can be hilarious
Who's in?
My fiancée and I would love to do this! Just post when and where and we will be there.
The level of reading comprehension here is enough to bring Stephen out of his slumber and use the 2 x 4 to exclaim......Luminaria on Dec 20 is NOT a RAP sponsored event. However, RAP has had a chance to mediate, like they have with the Roost issue to help get the JSO more involved, so that god forbid, some kid or adult falls off an unlicensed barnyard trailer and hits their head against the pavement, the entire event would be cancelled because someone had bad luck.
QuoteThis is a shame. The event was tons of fun in years past.Last year I played Christmas tunes from a trailer with a full band being towed by a truck with a fake snow machine. I didn't see any "barnyardesque ass bearing" but, I guess that's what you get from a neighborhood that once believed Mellow Mushroom was the bringer of the apocalypse.
Why would you see anything but your bandmates? You are stuck playing songs, when Westsiders and their trailers invade the area. I hear Springfield plans to do something this same evening, you are welcome to go play the blues over there and do whatever they are planning to do, if common decency is to much to ask for.....so close to Christmas.
Quote"Luminaria is one of my favorite times of year," Carmen Godwin, RAP Executive Director said. "I love seeing the community come together to enjoy their neighborhood and spending time together. How I personally enjoy Luminaria is by walking my kids through the parks and visiting with neighbors. It is also fun to hear neighbors talk about competing to see who can create the most beautiful presentation of Luminaria kits along their sidewalks and entries."
The parade and happenings that occur on St. Johns Avenue (and surrounding streets) has grown organically, and are not organized or sanctioned by RAP. In recent years, concerns have been raised about the safety, traffic, and public behavior; some of which violates both City and State laws.
As a community organization seeking to ensure a safe and enjoyable Luminaria evening for everyone, RAP has been meeting with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office (JSO) to address concerns. These meetings resulted in the conclusion that in the interest of public safety there is no way to safely allow the parade on St. Johns Avenue to continue in violation of state and city laws.
Beginning this year, the JSO will increase enforcement in the neighborhood and will not allow the following:
• Individuals riding in the back of trucks or trailers (F.S.S. 316.2015)
• Littering - From a vehicle or from person ( F.S.S. 403.413)
• Riding ATVs on public roads
• Open containers of alcoholic beverages
Riverside Avondale Preservation invites the public to come out and enjoy Luminaria on December 20th. Those visiting are asked to be respectful of property owners and not litter or throw candy; and to operate their vehicles in a safe and legal manner. The historic district is very walkable and bike friendly, and residents and visitors are encouraged to take advantage of this. With the help from the residents and visitors alike, Luminaria will be a fun evening for all.
Those visiting are asked to be respectful of property owners and not litter or throw candy; and to operate their vehicles in a safe and legal manner. - How much is it to ask people to respect others, this close to Christmas? Why is it so hard for people to "get it"?
QuoteMy bottom line is this: No one asked anyone to intrude on an event that was intended to showcase a beautiful and serene visual spectacle, with hooting, hollering, horse shit, and hay all over the area. Let's go back to the way it was to begin with.
Amen brother, and if you can't or don't want to follow directions, stay the heck out of Riverside Avondale for the event. Its that simple.
QuoteSo RAP makes tens of thousands of dollars from selling the kits (I helped to make and sell kits last year, they make tons), but they claim no responsibility for the goings on? That seems like a pretty convenient stance to take. They make it seem like your civic duty to buy a set of bags, but then they wipe their hands of the consequences when it they succeed at their jobs.
You forgot to mention the money that the St. Johns Flower Market makes, the money the Avondale Methodist Church makes and other churches and civic groups who sell bags, candles and sand for their own "fundraising efforts". Yet they seem to turn a blind eye to the chicanery going on and are only interested in making money to fund their own pockets....
QuoteA lot of this sounds like the dicks in RAP trying to keep "their" neighborhood "exclusive" or whatever. They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook. That's not to say there might not be issues - but it seems like RAP is overstepping, once again.
Uh, yeah, not a RAP sanctioned event, where are all the barnyard trailers the other 364 days of the year and why aren't they used more to parade people around the area, like say, any evening during the holiday season? Having someone get hurt, may be the only way to open the eyes of those who think the area is full of, DARE I say it, "Snobs". ::)
QuoteIt's become Christmas-themed paintball lately.
It has and its worse in Avondale than in Riverside. The traffic load on St. Johns in the Shoppes is tremendous and that is where most of the stuff happens. The streets were not built to handle parking on both sides and it becomes a mess on some of the side roads. Hopefully the JSO can assist with it this year.
RAP sells luminaries to raise money and have luminaries in the neighborhood. San Marco and Arlington also sell them, but people would never think to blame them if a bunch of people came to the neighborhood and started throwing things and acting obnoxious. Let alone blame them for the police coming in to cut down on people throwing things and being obnoxious. RAP ain't the bad guys here. In fact, there really aren't any bad guys at all. The luminaria will still be nice, likely more so.
You are stuck playing songs, when Westsiders and their trailers invade the area.
As I said, there is a snobbish element to this.
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 01, 2015, 11:03:43 PM
QuoteA lot of this sounds like the dicks in RAP trying to keep "their" neighborhood "exclusive" or whatever. They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook. That's not to say there might not be issues - but it seems like RAP is overstepping, once again.
Uh, yeah, not a RAP sanctioned event, where are all the barnyard trailers the other 364 days of the year and why aren't they used more to parade people around the area, like say, any evening during the holiday season? Having someone get hurt, may be the only way to open the eyes of those who think the area is full of, DARE I say it, "Snobs". ::)
Wasn't it you bemoaning the level of reading comprehension? There's a saying about stones and glass houses. I never said this was a RAP-sanctioned event. That's why I was accusing RAP of "overstepping".
I suppose I'm in the minority here, but I am PRO the shit-show atmosphere.
At what point was this a classy, low-key event? People spreading thousands of fire hazards around the neighborhood and driving around drunk with their cars and trailers covered in questionable electrical work. Also, these changes (or, rather, increased enforcement of laws) do more than curb candy throwing (the generally agreed upon problem here), they eliminate the whole parade aspect. No truck beds or trailers, so no floats?
If you just want to see some pretty lighted bags in the street, go over to San Marco.
Quote from: mrmakersmark on December 02, 2015, 09:19:55 AM
Quote from: Adam White on December 01, 2015, 10:54:18 AM
Quote from: MEGATRON on December 01, 2015, 10:47:17 AM
Quote from: Adam White on December 01, 2015, 08:42:03 AM
Quote from: johnnyliar on December 01, 2015, 08:22:47 AM
This is a shame. The event was tons of fun in years past.
Last year I played Christmas tunes from a trailer with a full band being towed by a truck with a fake snow machine.
I didn't see any "barnyardesque ass bearing" but, I guess that's what you get from a neighborhood that once believed Mellow Mushroom was the bringer of the apocalypse.
A lot of this sounds like the dicks in RAP trying to keep "their" neighborhood "exclusive" or whatever. They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook.
That's not to say there might not be issues - but it seems like RAP is overstepping, once again.
Luminary used to be a lot of fun for the neighborhood (frankly, last year was the first year we did not even bother putting out luminaries as we were sick of supporting it). I am sure there are many folks in the neighborhood that still enjoy it but many I talk with hate what it has become. It's a mess. We end up with trash throughout the neighborhood. And, eventually, someone (probably a kid) will be seriously injured. I am glad they are cracking down.
Fair enough. It's weird to think it has become so big. I remember the first time I went (I think it was 1990) and it was quite restrained. Even the last time I did it - I was living on St Johns near Publix and put out luminaries - it was still pretty low-key. That was 2002, I think.
Publix wasn't there in 2002.
I think you'll find it was:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=1574 (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=1574)
http://jacksonville.com/reason/call-box/2014-05-23/story/call-box-publix-occupies-old-riverside-hospital-site (http://jacksonville.com/reason/call-box/2014-05-23/story/call-box-publix-occupies-old-riverside-hospital-site)
https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1G1-87171024/a-store-comes-to-life-riverside-publix-makes-eagerly (https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1G1-87171024/a-store-comes-to-life-riverside-publix-makes-eagerly)
However, I was only trying to clarify what part of St Johns I was living on - this short bit near 5 points as opposed to the long bit past St Vincent's Hospital.
The candy and liter are terrible but the trailers are great.
Has anyone been to both the Luminaries and Porchfest? I do not recall Springfield having the issues with litter and such... not that there wasn't... I just do not recall any pushback from it...
I have been to both. Porchfest does not have the "parade" element. Porchfest is limited to a set numbers of blocks and does not allow vehicular traffic.
Quote from: Lucasjj on December 02, 2015, 02:00:46 PM
I have been to both. Porchfest does not have the "parade" element. Porchfest is limited to a set numbers of blocks and does not allow vehicular traffic.
Maybe it lacks the dirty westsiders invading the neighborhood.
The cops should just do rubber bullet guns and anyone throwing hard candy from trucks or trailers are fair game to be shot. Then we can keep the trucks and trailers and eliminate the idiots who think throwing hard candy is an acceptable action.
It went from "lets go look at the pretty lights in the pretty old neighborhood" to the worst of a Mardi Gras Parade. Past time to get some control before someone gets serious hurt.
It is a clear over correction.
Quote from: JeffreyS on December 02, 2015, 04:11:54 PM
It is a clear over correction.
You won't know that until you see how it works out.
Quote from: Dog Walker on December 02, 2015, 04:07:26 PM
It went from "lets go look at the pretty lights in the pretty old neighborhood" to the worst of a Mardi Gras Parade. Past time to get some control before someone gets serious hurt.
Yes I've seen people breaking bottles and pissing on lawns early in the night. The reason RAP is even mentioning anything is they fear liability from the event and they are not an official sponsor of the "parade". same reason Open Road dropped out of the bike tour.
And this is the crux of the issue, it has become a large parade, without any permitting or any additional paid for by the parade organizer JSO details, bathrooms etc. Which is why you saw only a couple of cops roaming about in years past and not every street blocked off etc like when there are races or permitted parades on SJA.
Quoteto the worst of a Mardi Gras Parade.
Its way past that now. Unofficially, the JSO is going to come down hard in Avondale. I guarantee you that you will see a lot more police and with Rutherford gone, we have a new Sheriff in Williams and his Zone 4 commander is not going to allow people to "break the law". ASSISTANT CHIEF LARRY GAYLE is the new Zone 4 commander and he is not going to take any crap from people breaking the law.
If you want to ride around in the back of an un-permitted trailer, do it somewhere else on Dec 20. Cause JSO is gonna find you and ticket you and then what do you tell all the people riding the in the back? Hey get off, I'll send Uber back to get you, LOL! Heck, JSO may make people leave the trailers in the shoppes of Avondale or on a side street. Maybe they won't be there when people return....
Quotego over to San Marco.
Please, its the size of a postage stamp and there are only a couple of decent streets and they have no traffic to worry about. If San Marco was the place to be, maybe the Bestsiders will invade you and you guys get to inherit this problem!
QuoteYes I've seen people breaking bottles and pissing on lawns early in the night. The reason RAP is even mentioning anything is they fear liability from the event and they are not an official sponsor of the "parade". same reason Open Road dropped out of the bike tour.
And this is the crux of the issue, it has become a large parade, without any permitting or any additional paid for by the parade organizer JSO details, bathrooms etc. Which is why you saw only a couple of cops roaming about in years past and not every street blocked off etc like when there are races or permitted parades on SJA.
You miss the point of it all, there is no sponsor, no one in charge of the Neighborhood event. The PRIDE parade through Riverside and Avondale had police that were paid $30 an hour to block streets and help with the traffic flow. There is none of that in the Luminaria, there is no sponsor. RAP is not a sponsor. RAP is not a sponsor for Christmas in Avondale, but the merchants association of Avondale is, even though RAP has the event listed on their site and discuss it, as it is an event in the neighborhood. The merchants are paying to have police there and to close st. johns from 5-9 pm this Saturday. It is a small stretch and easy to block, its done every year, without a parade or trailers.
Luminaria is an event in the neighborhood, churches make money with nativity scenes, they sell their own white bags and candles and they have their own events, but do they sponsor Luminaria, nope, just an excuse to have a party and sling their own stuff.
Open Road made their own business decision, but people still bike the event and there are still a large posse of bikers. Ask them how they enjoy being pelted with hard candy? Who enjoys it when you are seeing the best that the neighborhood has to offer from its residents.
Luminaria is all for the residents of Riverside and Avondale, as far as most are concerned, the westside trailer-trash can stay home, go elsewhere, or come and get a ticket and a smile from JSO's finest Dec 20. Avondale and Riverside will do just fine with any of the 3 choices.
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 03, 2015, 12:26:47 AM
Luminaria is all for the residents of Riverside and Avondale, as far as most are concerned, the westside trailer-trash can stay home, go elsewhere, or come and get a ticket and a smile from JSO's finest Dec 20. Avondale and Riverside will do just fine with any of the 3 choices.
I'd rather hang out with "westside trailer trash" than with elitist snobs any day of the week.
Semi-interesting hysterical historical; first witnessed RAP Luminary quite by surprise. Some time ago,the year Biscottis opened. I had an apartment at Riverside & Aberdeen........went out to the balcony at dusk...........surprise!! Enchanting
Once again,we now experience 'Too Much'.
I have participated in Parades,tossed candy,got marshmellows stuck on my bicycle wheels........clop,clop,clop :D
The vehicular traffic is a major hassle for cyclists.
Perhaps it is time to effectively promote walk and bike. At some point, why not consider Luminary event closing of St Johns Avenue down to vehicles at the Shoppes and perhaps a block or two each side, similar to the Christmas In Avondale event??
Am I going crazy, or did Know Growth just make more sense than mtrain? What a revelation!
the original intent of Luminaria was a peaceful, candlelit, neighborhood event. The parade has become a bit of a zoo and is probably best suited as separate event like Christmas in Avondale.
I never understood why people wouldn't just prefer to walk or ride a bike anyway rather than sit in a noisy traffic jam.
Quote from: Apache on December 03, 2015, 07:16:40 PM
Nooney and Know Growth never post at the same time...Clark Kent and Superman?
Batman & Robin See the special parade float, giant inflated kayak & "Visit Jacksonville" banner. Parade hit. :P
Seriously,I repeat here once again- consider closing key roadways to vehicular traffic ,allowing enhanced foot & cycle. Why not?
QuoteI never understood why people wouldn't just prefer to walk or ride a bike anyway rather than sit in a noisy traffic jam.
Outsiders who live in their HOA gated bunkers, they never think to walk anywhere, because they can't.
Should be nice weather for Luminaria Sunday, December 20. Expecting a High of 63 and Low of 38, with NO chance of rain.
Please remember to leave the marshmallows and hard candy at home, unless you like the JSO to give you yellow pieces of paper with fines on them. Leave your un-permitted trailers at home too, no need for those on this special night, but bring your camera, it should be a great night to walk through the neighborhood.
The funny thing about the "un-permitted" trailers to me is that in my experience, getting a registration/tag for a trailer is pretty easy. The DMV will pretty much give you a trailer tag for anything, and it's cheap too.
The scariest (and simultaneously most awesome) thing I've seen in the past is the deuce and halfs (http://oppositelock.kinja.com/you-call-that-a-truck-this-is-a-truck-1641634532/1645250175), which can be totally street legal, or at least they can get tags... nothing like a 13k pound, 3 axle truck with a 3' high bumper going through a crowded street with antique headlights that barely light the road ahead of you.
Quote from: blfair on December 14, 2015, 01:29:33 PM
The funny thing about the "un-permitted" trailers to me is that in my experience, getting a registration/tag for a trailer is pretty easy. The DMV will pretty much give you a trailer tag for anything, and it's cheap too.
Permitted or registered. I think the problem is people riding in trailers not designed or permitted for such use. Think as in St Aug tour trolleys and/or parade floats. Otherwise it is illegal in Florida to ride in a trailer towed on the roads.
Within a couple of years or so a portion of St Johns/Shoppes area will be closed to vehicular traffic. Walk,bike,mobility impaired will reign.
Enchanting.
Quote from: Know Growth on December 14, 2015, 08:55:46 PM
Within a couple of years or so a portion of St Johns/Shoppes area will be closed to vehicular traffic. Walk,bike,mobility impaired will reign.
Enchanting.
Why do you say that?
Quote from: Know Growth on December 14, 2015, 08:55:46 PM
Within a couple of years or so a portion of St Johns/Shoppes area will be closed to vehicular traffic. Walk,bike,mobility impaired will reign.
Enchanting.
I wouldn't mind both the Shoppes of Avondale and the San Marco Square both being cut off to vehicular traffic. Don't see that happening anytime soon though. Jacksonville could use a pedestrian only urban shopping area or two.
http://www.downtowncharlottesville.net/
http://www.churchstmarketplace.com/
Quote from: dp8541 on December 15, 2015, 08:38:35 AM
Quote from: Know Growth on December 14, 2015, 08:55:46 PM
Within a couple of years or so a portion of St Johns/Shoppes area will be closed to vehicular traffic. Walk,bike,mobility impaired will reign.
Enchanting.
I wouldn't mind both the Shoppes of Avondale and the San Marco Square both being cut off to vehicular traffic. Don't see that happening anytime soon though. Jacksonville could use a pedestrian only urban shopping area or two.
http://www.downtowncharlottesville.net/
http://www.churchstmarketplace.com/
I don't think there is enough around these areas to turn them into pedestrian-only areas. Where would you put all the cars? Further into residential areas? Pedestrian areas can work pretty well if they make up only part of an area that is surrounded by other mobility uses, particularly if the area is historic and originally designed without vehicles in mind. If you made basically the entire commercial area of San Marco and Avondale into ped-only, my guess is you would end up strangling them. And San Marco traffic would be even more of a zoo.
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on December 15, 2015, 11:33:50 AM
The bigger need is to make the stretch of Hendricks from Atlantic to Prudential more suited to pedestrian activity. With the upcoming changes to Riverplace, that deficiency will be all the more glaring.
I'm with you on this. I'd even go beyond Atlantic, but I'm sure that's a pretty hard sell as it gets into 4-5 lanes.
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on December 15, 2015, 11:33:50 AM
I don't see the need for changes to San Marco Square as it is rather pedestrian friendly since the redesign. Now that the park area has been expanded, people actually hang around even if they are not visiting any of the shops. We walk to it almost on a daily basis and the majority of the time it is just to walk around or sit in the park. The difference in activity we witness (compared to pre- road diet) is staggering.
The bigger need is to make the stretch of Hendricks from Atlantic to Prudential more suited to pedestrian activity. With the upcoming changes to Riverplace, that deficiency will be all the more glaring.
Atlantic from the square to Kings Ave is also pretty sketch. The sidewalk is almost in the roadway at points.
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on December 15, 2015, 11:33:50 AM
The bigger need is to make the stretch of Hendricks from Atlantic to Prudential more suited to pedestrian activity. With the upcoming changes to Riverplace, that deficiency will be all the more glaring.
And FDOT just redid that. I think they did a horrible job there - I think those are 12 foot lanes, which is ridiculous for any road that doesn't have an "I-" in front of it.
Quote from: Know Growth on December 14, 2015, 08:55:46 PM
Within a couple of years or so a portion of St Johns/Shoppes area will be closed to vehicular traffic. Walk,bike,mobility impaired will reign.
Enchanting.
By the way, I was referring solely to Luminaries event...... :)
QuoteI wouldn't mind both the Shoppes of Avondale and the San Marco Square both being cut off to vehicular traffic.
Yeah, I hear you, it would be nice in Avondale, but the Ambulance and Safety folks would fight you tooth and nail, as St. Johns is a major thoroughfare to St. Vincent's for the Ambulances.
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 15, 2015, 09:33:16 PM
QuoteI wouldn't mind both the Shoppes of Avondale and the San Marco Square both being cut off to vehicular traffic.
Yeah, I hear you, it would be nice in Avondale, but the Ambulance and Safety folks would fight you tooth and nail, as St. Johns is a major thoroughfare to St. Vincent's for the Ambulances.
I don't think it needs to be completely closed but there could be some additional features added to make it even more ped friendly. I would elevate all the crosswalks slightly and add additional stop for ped signs (the in-road signs). That would help to slow traffic since some people still insist on hauling ass through that stretch. Speed limit should be dropped. There's no reason for the stoplight at the ingleside intersection (and it has a funky offset) although I doubt it would ever be removed. I think it would be better to have a ped signal there.
Ingleside was designed as the original 'grand entrance' to the village. Mr. Ingle was the president of the Jacksonville Traction Company (streetcars) which had a stop at Ingleside and Herschel. If you could imagine that landscaped road reconstructed to the way it would have appeared in our own 'City Beautiful' days it would jack up the image of the whole neighborhood.
Just a footnote to those 'streetcars MUST run in the streets' believers, south of Ingleside all the way to Fishweir Creek, the JTCO ran on railroad track alone, there was no pavement in that stretch.
I think San Marco with it's M/L recent remake is far more pedestrian friendly then Avondale, Fairfax or the 5-Points areas, but cutting off the traffic won't help any of them. All were developed along the streetcar routes and all are dependent on transportation to this day. A San Marco Square-like treatment of each of these would work wonders.
QuoteSpeed limit should be dropped. There's no reason for the stoplight at the ingleside intersection (and it has a funky offset) although I doubt it would ever be removed. I think it would be better to have a ped signal there.
When Avondale was "beautified" the city thought about closing Ingleside or eliminating the light, but someone in the City decided to keep the lights, offset as they are.
If you raise the cross walks, again, the ambulance lobby, Eddie and Chuck Farah will be hard to beat.
Speed limit is 25 mph, from Dancy to Talbot, although most race down it to see if they can hit a car backing out or worse, a pedestrian. Its nuts!
We shut 'er down for Christmas in Avondale
Mr. Spinks Luminary, Fast Forward
Well, biggest change for me was Tom Whicher,now deceased,no longer graced the St Johns Ave. Bold City Open House. Long discussed.Finally, "Mad Manatee" appeared.
Some bitched about the new St Johns venue, or reduction thereof. Dang,life so challenging here within RAP. Just two years ago many,some likely certifiably anti gun,where shooting marshmallows from multiple PVC contraptions from this very St Johns Ave site. Now greatly diminished,amidst total hard candy projectile ban.The roadside sign monitors flash again and again.....
Personally,I missed the open carriages,trailers. Shucks,I used to ride in the back of a pickup truck (quite illegally,apparently) back and forth from Miami to Sebring.
The COJ Sherriff Office road sign on St Johns Ave , flashing........flashing.............five or six 'Directives' that were in fact nothing other than long established rule.
And a curious visit with Village Idiot in front of a Shoppes establishment; Idiot as if on guard,conversation was far too easily lead to assumed conclusion. All perfectly recorded.
This year seemed certifiably less "Frantic" than recent past years. Even less Luminary on my street.
Next biggest change from last year for me was the discovery that my bicycle handle bars are greatly adjustable, considerable tilt "UP".Finally,even better fit.
We rode our bikes over from San Marco and had a good time. I saw lots of complaints on fb of "the residents" ruining luminaria with the new rules
Shockingly it all appeared to be from people that don't live anywhere near avondale ::)
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/local/avondale-riverside/2015/12/21/residents-not-happy-with-luminaria-parade-changes/77682922/
I don't think it is shocking people from out of the neighborhood are upset. The decorated trailer "hayride" is a great way to enjoy Jacksonville's best historic area once a year. The residents, RAP and the JSO over corrected with the rules crackdown. Perhaps it will soften to just getting rid of the litter and candy throwing in the future.
I had a great time last night. It was more like the event that I remember going to 10 or more years ago. There were decorated cars, bikes and people all over the place, and no one was taking target practice at us with various candies and other objects.
The problem with the candy throwing for most people, including me, is that the candy would land in the street, and little children would dart out into traffic (albeit slow moving) to get the candy off the street.
The people in trailer that were being cool were not being harassed by police, but I saw some people doing the wave in the back of a pick up truck that a cop pulled over.
I hope the powers that be keep the Luminaria exactly like it was last night, there was more neighbor participation than in the past 3-4 years or more.
QuoteThe residents, RAP and the JSO over corrected with the rules crackdown
And yet the neighborhood survived, wow, amazing how a little enforcement regarding public safety (you mean I can't use a compressed shotgun to blow projectiles off the heads of unsuspecting people) leads to a case of the crazies.......and yes, most of the FB implosion took place by people who were kicking and screaming because they could not throw candy on St. Johns Avenue, yet a block over it was not an issue.
Oh well, there is always next year that they can try and vote out the councilman and get the JSO to change the Florida State Statutes. The Marshmallow lobby is a powerful one, as some lobbyists on this board can attest!
Quote from: acme54321 on December 21, 2015, 09:15:15 AM
We rode our bikes over from San Marco and had a good time. I saw lots of complaints on fb of "the residents" ruining luminaria with the new rules
Shockingly it all appeared to be from people that don't live anywhere near avondale ::)
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/local/avondale-riverside/2015/12/21/residents-not-happy-with-luminaria-parade-changes/77682922/
LOL the guy they interviewed in that article is a prime example of what the problem was, he's griping that he can't use his potato gun with a smaller tube glued on the end to shoot 90-mph marshmallows at people. Halfway through his comments he catches himself and backpedals from "it was me..." to "it was some guys...". He knows what he was doing was a prick move.
Happy with the changes here. It was like how it used to be 5 years ago before it became target practice.
Quote from: acme54321 on December 21, 2015, 09:15:15 AM
We rode our bikes over from San Marco and had a good time. I saw lots of complaints on fb of "the residents" ruining luminaria with the new rules
Shockingly it all appeared to be from people that don't live anywhere near avondale ::)
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/local/avondale-riverside/2015/12/21/residents-not-happy-with-luminaria-parade-changes/77682922/
I personally thought this was some of the worst reporting I've seen out of FCN in a while....even with the unreal low bar that I measure them with. Of the three people that didn't like it was the guy that Chrisw mentioned above, and a 9 year old and 12 year old.....with no mention of whether or not they actually live in the neighborhood. Solid reporting....it was as if FCN was trying to make it a bigger story than it was, then couldn't find anyone credible to talk to so they went with what they had.
Quote from: Steve on December 22, 2015, 09:05:15 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on December 21, 2015, 09:15:15 AM
We rode our bikes over from San Marco and had a good time. I saw lots of complaints on fb of "the residents" ruining luminaria with the new rules
Shockingly it all appeared to be from people that don't live anywhere near avondale ::)
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/local/avondale-riverside/2015/12/21/residents-not-happy-with-luminaria-parade-changes/77682922/
I personally thought this was some of the worst reporting I've seen out of FCN in a while....even with the unreal low bar that I measure them with. Of the three people that didn't like it was the guy that Chrisw mentioned above, and a 9 year old and 12 year old.....with no mention of whether or not they actually live in the neighborhood. Solid reporting....it was as if FCN was trying to make it a bigger story than it was, then couldn't find anyone credible to talk to so they went with what they had.
I got the impression that the guy - the marshmallow guy - lives in Riverside or Avondale. He mentioned something about how it "means the wordl to bring everyone there in the community together" or something. He seems drunk to me.
Also - apparently Luminaria is Riverside's version of "Moddy Grah".
Quote from: Steve on December 22, 2015, 09:05:15 AM
I personally thought this was some of the worst reporting I've seen out of FCN in a while....even with the unreal low bar that I measure them with. Of the three people that didn't like it was the guy that Chrisw mentioned above, and a 9 year old and 12 year old.....with no mention of whether or not they actually live in the neighborhood. Solid reporting....it was as if FCN was trying to make it a bigger story than it was, then couldn't find anyone credible to talk to so they went with what they had.
It's right there in the title of the article; they think luminaria is a parade. Whoops.
That one kid was great "Luminaria is all about riding around in trailers and shooting people with marshmallows." Pretty obviously him and everyone that was with him has no idea what luminaria is about. Riding around the backstreets was much more enjoyable than the shit show on St. Johns.
MTrain I know asking a troll to speak about what has actually been said as opposed to screaming is a lot to ask but I will try.
Clearly the police realized the published rules were an over correction and didn't crack down on every trailer and truck ferrying people. No one said the over correction even if it happened would have been a disaster.
Rachel I hear your less congested comment and understand your keeping less outsiders from enjoying the event meaning.
No one has argued that the candy throwing /litter should not have been stopped. I guess however that point has to keep being made in order to rationalize restricting the "hayrides".
The trailers are a blast I am glad the police were smart enough to know the new rules were overkill.
QuoteMTrain I know asking a troll to speak about what has actually been said as opposed to screaming is a lot to ask but I will try.
Jeffrey - I'll try and respond, but I rarely respond to douche posts.....
Most residents on the Nextdoor Avondale neighborhood said the police presence was welcomed. After the incident of the lady plowing into 40 people, killing 1, and the attacks in California and Paris, with so many people in a small space, it was appreciated. There were a few incidents of drunks getting crazy outside restaurants, but nothing too bad. Speaking with many elected officials, no one could recall anyone receiving a ticket for a trailer or bike issue. There were easily 300+ cyclists on the road as well. It was great to see with or without City Cycle's support.
It should be noted that the police were asked to attend out of concerns for Public Safety. (From the First Coast News Report) If the 9 or 12 year old kid thinks its OK to shoot other people with "any gun", we will probably see him on the news after he takes his airsoft AK-47 look-alike BB gun to school for "show and tell". The younger kids don't know any better when candy is thrown to them, they were getting off floats and nearly being run over in years past. Should the floats come back, yes, but they need to all adhere to the same structure of the horse "carriages", with high walls to protect riders, and gates at the back.
I do believe that the residents will work with the JSO to work on some options for next year so that more people can have fun. The police will still be there, but I do believe compromise could come about as long as Public Safety is maintained.
What is interesting here and perhaps some of the Riverside "pundits" can tell us all how Luminaria existed in.....RIVERSIDE? No fun with candy at Park and King? Nothing but Stormtroopers in 5-Points? Why did the entire Westside bad mouth a 2-block strip of roadway in Avondale when they could have been kings of Riverside / Avondale in other parts of the district?
Perhaps troll was a bit strong but you did respond to an opinion that the new rules were just an overcorrection with "and yet the neighborhood survived".
I am glad no one received a ticket my guess is the police agreed with me about the overcorrection.
^I don't really see it as an "overcorrection", but just normal, professional discretion by JSO. For example, they could technically give me a ticket for going 66 in a 65, but they've never done it (they've given me tickets, but I assure you they've been for much more than 1 over).
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 24, 2015, 01:43:40 AM
QuoteMTrain I know asking a troll to speak about what has actually been said as opposed to screaming is a lot to ask but I will try.
Jeffrey - I'll try and respond, but I rarely respond to douche posts.....
Most residents on the Nextdoor Avondale neighborhood said the police presence was welcomed. After the incident of the lady plowing into 40 people, killing 1, and the attacks in California and Paris, with so many people in a small space, it was appreciated. There were a few incidents of drunks getting crazy outside restaurants, but nothing too bad. Speaking with many elected officials, no one could recall anyone receiving a ticket for a trailer or bike issue. There were easily 300+ cyclists on the road as well. It was great to see with or without City Cycle's support.
It should be noted that the police were asked to attend out of concerns for Public Safety. (From the First Coast News Report) If the 9 or 12 year old kid thinks its OK to shoot other people with "any gun", we will probably see him on the news after he takes his airsoft AK-47 look-alike BB gun to school for "show and tell". The younger kids don't know any better when candy is thrown to them, they were getting off floats and nearly being run over in years past. Should the floats come back, yes, but they need to all adhere to the same structure of the horse "carriages", with high walls to protect riders, and gates at the back.
I do believe that the residents will work with the JSO to work on some options for next year so that more people can have fun. The police will still be there, but I do believe compromise could come about as long as Public Safety is maintained.
What is interesting here and perhaps some of the Riverside "pundits" can tell us all how Luminaria existed in.....RIVERSIDE? No fun with candy at Park and King? Nothing but Stormtroopers in 5-Points? Why did the entire Westside bad mouth a 2-block strip of roadway in Avondale when they could have been kings of Riverside / Avondale in other parts of the district?
Agreed! I hope some compromise can be reached in the future with the floats while maintaining public safety.
I know a few people that live in Riverside and they stated that it was basically dead in Riverside.
QuoteAgreed! I hope some compromise can be reached in the future with the floats while maintaining public safety.
+1
Had a great time. Car traffic seemed to travel much smoother.