(http://i.imgur.com/jjnXuyl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/o2lGLOr.jpg)
Following the brutal terrorist attack in France, several Republican Governors and some Republican Mayors took a very strong stance against allowing Syrian refugees into the states or cities they represent. Florida Governor Rick Scott and Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry were both quite assertive in their demands that Syrian refugees not be allowed into our state or city with Scott flat out declaring that he would not let them into the state at all. Of course neither man apparently understood that Syrians are already in our state and city with Jacksonville itself hosting a sizable Syrian community. The 5th Largest Syrian population in American. Neither man apparently understood or understands that they have no legal ground to stand on while attempting to block these refugees. But when has legality mattered to Rick Scott and when did it stop mattering to Lenny Curry? The mandate to allow refuges into our country is ages old, a federal mandate. However there is a greater mandate, a moral mandate that demands thinking and compassionate people help those in mortal danger who are fleeing countries embroiled in destructive and devastating violence. To my view this is not only a test of leadership but a test of morality that these men have failed. It is also a test of the law and legal action. Both Scott and Curry are rejecting what federal law has mandated. Their stance is not only sad but it is a sign of weakness in leadership, not strength. Scott, Curry and those in elected office turning their backs on the Syrian refugees are doing exactly what ISIS/ISIL wants them to do which is cower in fear of the Syrian refugees and the threats of these terrorists. These men have been played by the terrorists. Their depth as leaders appears shallow in the face of terrorism and shown that they can be readily outsmarted and manipulated using fear or threats of violence. France itself that was the most recent recipient of mass terrorist has done the right thing. They have not stopped Syrian refugees from coming into their country but have doubled down on their attempts to help then.
Here we are a military city, strong on military pride and the terrorists of ISIS/ISIL have already made our mayor cower in the fear of "what if" instead of facing down these murderous bullies and saying "We do not fear you and we will embrace those you are attempting to destroy and give them sanctuary". That is true fearlessness and strength.
QuoteNew Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
Lenny Curry and Rick Scott you job is not to dim the glow of the beacon offered by the Statue of Liberty in presence and sonnet. Your job is to support the heart of this fearless nation and city, not cower and turn you back on the many because you fear people simply because of their country of origin or their religion. This is not what America is.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/local/2015/11/17/curry-asks-florida-reps-to-prevent-syrian-refugees-coming-to-america/75946310/
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/jacksonville-mayor-supports-halting-syrian-refugee/npPzp/
QuoteThis is not what America is.
There are 2 Americas in my lifetime, Pre-9/11 and Post 9/11. We will never be able to go back to Pre-9/11 so I am willing to give up some civil liberties for more security.
What good is liberty when you are dead from a terrorist?
Is this about civil liberties? Sounds more like it's a knee-jerk reaction fueled by racism.
The USA is (in part) responsible for IS in the first place. It needs to pony up and take its share of refugees. Americans need to turn off the television and stop being a bunch of fucking crybabies. Just like ebola didn't get you, Syrian refugees aren't going to get you.
well, then you should move. Except, some of the safest countries are usually the one with the broadest sense of civil liberties. the countries with the least amount of civil liberties...
Removing your rights does not make you safe, ever. It takes your safety away.
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 03:14:16 PM
Is this about civil liberties? Sounds more like it's a knee-jerk reaction fueled by racism.
The USA is (in part) responsible for IS in the first place. It needs to pony up and take its share of refugees. Americans need to turn off the television and stop being a bunch of fucking crybabies. Just like ebola didn't get you, Syrian refugees aren't going to get you.
I don't think it's fueled by racism. It's fueled by election year fear-mongering, which Curry is well-acquainted with.
Tacachale, please see my article "The Curry Campaign is Fear Mongering" ;).
Beware of people who thrive on violence.
Quote from: mtraininjax on November 18, 2015, 03:10:11 PM
QuoteThis is not what America is.
There are 2 Americas in my lifetime, Pre-9/11 and Post 9/11. We will never be able to go back to Pre-9/11 so I am willing to give up some civil liberties for more security.
What good is liberty when you are dead from a terrorist?
Mtraininjax Bullshit! Never freely give up your civil liberties for false security. The odds are better that you will die in a car wreck then die by the hands of a terrorist.
I look at this photo(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wjct/files/styles/medium/public/201406/curry_scott_clayctygop_facebook.jpg) of Rick Scott and Curry and I see a puppet master holding the strings of the puppet mayor. Jesus Christ if we don't let some of these women & children Refugees into America. Did anyone see the FRONTLINE story of ISIS in Afghanistan http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/isis-in-afghanistan/
These Governors know they can't legally prevent them but it does make for good sound bites in a presidential election cycle.
Frances response.
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/18/3723440/france-refugees/
QuoteIn a speech to mayors from around France, Hollande said France would welcome 30,000 refugees over the next two years. That's even more than the 24,000 he committed to accepting in September.
Hollande said that he would invest about $53.3 million to develop housing for refugees.
He added that that refugees will undergo thorough security checks before entering the country before addressing calls from the country's largest opposition parties, the ultra-right Front National.
Acknowledging fears among many in France after 129 were killed in gun and bomb attacks on Friday, Hollande said, "[It is] our duty to protect our people
Quote from: mtraininjax on November 18, 2015, 03:10:11 PM
QuoteThis is not what America is.
There are 2 Americas in my lifetime, Pre-9/11 and Post 9/11. We will never be able to go back to Pre-9/11 so I am willing to give up some civil liberties for more security.
What good is liberty when you are dead from a terrorist?
My so dramatic. A person has a better chance of winning the Mega Pot lottery or getting hit by lightening than being killed by a terrorist. Your chances of dying are much greater if you smoke, drive, do drugs, drink or own a gun than dying at the hands of a terrorist. If you fear death at the hands of a Syrian immigrant you have successfully had your mind messed over by ISIS/ISIL and groups like them those whose sole intent is to instill fear across the world. Personally I would never let the fear of terrorism make me fearful of my life or other people including those of middle eastern roots. Currently there are over 67,000 Syrians in America and they have been migrating here since the late 1800's.
(http://i.imgur.com/wNmaJqQ.jpg)
One of the things I have to say to the officials men and few women that are terrified by the idea of Syrian refugees finding sanctuary here is this. If you grown adults are afraid of ISIS/ISIL why the hell would you leave children to face them down when they can be made safe? Why have them and their families suffer these horrors and death as opposed to making them safe? That is the height of cowardice and it turns my stomach and hurts my heart. Suffer the little children. The very idea is unholy. On this issue my feelings are very passionate as is my judgment of the cowards refusing them and their families sanctuary.
This is very disappointing, and pathetic. These people are dying out there due to conflicts we're actively involved in. It's echoes of the voyage of the St. Louis and our refusal to take in Jewish refugees fleeing the Nazis in the leadup to World War II. We learned the hard way how bad a mistake that was.
Quote from: Tacachale on November 18, 2015, 04:37:43 PM
This is very disappointing, and pathetic. These people are dying out there due to conflicts we're actively involved in. It's echoes of the voyage of the St. Louis and our refusal to take in Jewish refugees fleeing the Nazis in the leadup to World War II. We learned the hard way how bad a mistake that was.
Exactly. These officials are shaming America. What the hell happened to
"America home of the free and the Brave?' There is nothing brave about buckling under fear. Not a damn thing. I am not being dramatic, I am rather furious at the cowardice being displayed.
Now take a look at the process for Syrian refugees and you will see that it is strict, lengthy and as secure a process we can implement.
Quote1. Refugees are screened by several different agencies.
Their first point of a refugee's contact is with the U.N. High Commission for Refugees. The UNHCR refers people to countries based on whether they have any family members there and where resettlement makes the most sense, say U.S. officials. If that's the U.S., then refugees are vetted by the National Counterterrorism Center, the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center, and the Departments of State, Defense and Homeland Security. Fingerprints are taken, biographical information is collected. They are then each individually interviewed by U.S. officials trained to verify that they're bona fide refugees.
Refugees from Syria are then subject to additional screening that looks at where they came from and what caused them to flee their home, stories that are checked out. All of this occurs before a refugee is allowed to set foot in the country.
To read about the entire process, click this link:
http://www.npr.org/2015/11/17/456395388/paris-attacks-ignite-debate-over-u-s-refugee-policy
If we didn't want to take Syrian refugees, maybe we shouldn't bomb the shit out of their country. (Sorry Dems, this one's on the blood-hungry Obama).
There's no end in site to these wars folks, gonna be another 15 years....
As for the other comment I'll just quote Benjamin Franklin:
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Quote from: TheCat on November 18, 2015, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 03:14:16 PM
Is this about civil liberties? Sounds more like it's a knee-jerk reaction fueled by racism.
The USA is (in part) responsible for IS in the first place. It needs to pony up and take its share of refugees. Americans need to turn off the television and stop being a bunch of fucking crybabies. Just like ebola didn't get you, Syrian refugees aren't going to get you.
I don't think it's fueled by racism. It's fueled by election year fear-mongering, which Curry is well-acquainted with.
Tacachale, please see my article "The Curry Campaign is Fear Mongering" ;).
Beware of people who thrive on violence.
But the fear is based on racism. It's fear of the other - the unwashed, godless hordes with dark(er) skin. It's Islamophobia.
Quote from: coredumped on November 18, 2015, 05:04:22 PM
If we didn't want to take Syrian refugees, maybe we shouldn't bomb the shit out of their country. (Sorry Dems, this one's on the blood-hungry Obama).
There's no end in site to these wars folks, gonna be another 15 years....
As for the other comment I'll just quote Benjamin Franklin:
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
I'm not defending Obama, but get real. It's got GHW Bush and GW Bush written all over it, too. It's not a one-party issue.
So far the investigations in France have shown that the "terrorists" that attacked their city were all "European Nationals". So my new question is, when will Scott and Curry call for us banning the immigration or visitor status for everyone from Europe?
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:21:10 PM
I'm not defending Obama, but get real. It's got GHW Bush and GW Bush written all over it, too. It's not a one-party issue.
You can put Iraq on Bush, we expect that from him, he's a republican. But Obama has wanted his own war for several years. He ran on "hope" and "change" and other nonsense. Shame on us for believing him. He's got so much blood on his hands I don't see how anyone can stand behind him anymore.
So he got us in to this mess and now what? Like I said, there's no end in sight.
Quote from: coredumped on November 18, 2015, 05:29:26 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:21:10 PM
I'm not defending Obama, but get real. It's got GHW Bush and GW Bush written all over it, too. It's not a one-party issue.
You can put Iraq on Bush, we expect that from him, he's a republican. But Obama has wanted his own war for several years. He ran on "hope" and "change" and other nonsense. Shame on us for believing him. He's got so much blood on his hands I don't see how anyone can stand behind him anymore.
So he got us in to this mess and now what? Like I said, there's no end in sight.
But, but, but "Obama"! That is one tired retort that has become nothing but a catch all for any and all issues. But the sky is blue, water is wet and.....it's all Obama's fault. :)
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on November 18, 2015, 04:35:40 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/wNmaJqQ.jpg)
One of the things I have to say to the officials men and few women that are terrified by the idea of Syrian refugees finding sanctuary here is this. If you grown adults are afraid of ISIS/ISIL why the hell would you leave children to face them down when they can be made safe? Why have them and their families suffer these horrors and death as opposed to making them safe? That is the height of cowardice and it turns my stomach and hurts my heart. Suffer the little children. The very idea is unholy. On this issue my feelings are very passionate as is my judgment of the cowards refusing them and their families sanctuary.
Be still your heart... ethnomasochist... let these "refugees" take refuge in Saudi Arabia, or Iran or one of dozens of other muslim countries... they have the means... they share so much in common... so let them take them. Why are none going there?
Quote from: coredumped on November 18, 2015, 05:29:26 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:21:10 PM
I'm not defending Obama, but get real. It's got GHW Bush and GW Bush written all over it, too. It's not a one-party issue.
You can put Iraq on Bush, we expect that from him, he's a republican. But Obama has wanted his own war for several years. He ran on "hope" and "change" and other nonsense. Shame on us for believing him. He's got so much blood on his hands I don't see how anyone can stand behind him anymore.
So he got us in to this mess and now what? Like I said, there's no end in sight.
He didn't get anyone into anything. He continued where the other guy(s) left off. We wouldn't be in Iraq without either Bush. We wouldn't have created the conditions in Iraq that led to the rise of IS. Obama can be faulted to a point, but to say he got the US into this mess is disingenuous.
Quote from: Sentient on November 18, 2015, 05:44:56 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on November 18, 2015, 04:35:40 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/wNmaJqQ.jpg)
One of the things I have to say to the officials men and few women that are terrified by the idea of Syrian refugees finding sanctuary here is this. If you grown adults are afraid of ISIS/ISIL why the hell would you leave children to face them down when they can be made safe? Why have them and their families suffer these horrors and death as opposed to making them safe? That is the height of cowardice and it turns my stomach and hurts my heart. Suffer the little children. The very idea is unholy. On this issue my feelings are very passionate as is my judgment of the cowards refusing them and their families sanctuary.
Be still your heart... ethnomasochist... let these "refugees" take refuge in Saudi Arabia, or Iran or one of dozens of other muslim countries... they have the means... they share so much in common... so let them take them. Why are none going there?
The vast majority of refugees from Syria's civil war remain in the countries that neighbor Syria: 1.9 million in Turkey and 2.1 million in Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Egypt combined. (This is on top of nearly 8 million internally displaced within Syria)
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on November 18, 2015, 05:58:18 PM
Quote from: Sentient on November 18, 2015, 05:44:56 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on November 18, 2015, 04:35:40 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/wNmaJqQ.jpg)
One of the things I have to say to the officials men and few women that are terrified by the idea of Syrian refugees finding sanctuary here is this. If you grown adults are afraid of ISIS/ISIL why the hell would you leave children to face them down when they can be made safe? Why have them and their families suffer these horrors and death as opposed to making them safe? That is the height of cowardice and it turns my stomach and hurts my heart. Suffer the little children. The very idea is unholy. On this issue my feelings are very passionate as is my judgment of the cowards refusing them and their families sanctuary.
Be still your heart... ethnomasochist... let these "refugees" take refuge in Saudi Arabia, or Iran or one of dozens of other muslim countries... they have the means... they share so much in common... so let them take them. Why are none going there?
The vast majority of refugees from Syria's civil war remain in the countries that neighbor Syria: 1.9 million in Turkey and 2.1 million in Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Egypt combined. (This is on top of nearly 8 million internally displaced within Syria)
so we DON"t need to take any... see?
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:46:59 PM
Quote from: coredumped on November 18, 2015, 05:29:26 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:21:10 PM
I'm not defending Obama, but get real. It's got GHW Bush and GW Bush written all over it, too. It's not a one-party issue.
You can put Iraq on Bush, we expect that from him, he's a republican. But Obama has wanted his own war for several years. He ran on "hope" and "change" and other nonsense. Shame on us for believing him. He's got so much blood on his hands I don't see how anyone can stand behind him anymore.
So he got us in to this mess and now what? Like I said, there's no end in sight.
He didn't get anyone into anything. He continued where the other guy(s) left off. We wouldn't be in Iraq without either Bush. We wouldn't have created the conditions in Iraq that led to the rise of IS. Obama can be faulted to a point, but to say he got the US into this mess is disingenuous.
He can be faulted for mishandling the U.S. response in the region with a halfassed approach, though I expect that's not what Coredumped believes.
But either way, there are millions of refugees getting killed in conflicts in which we are involved. It's disappointing and sad to see so many of our leaders - especially the ones who've always called for even
more military involvement in the Middle East - to advocate leaving these people out in the cold.
Quote from: Sentient on November 18, 2015, 06:07:13 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on November 18, 2015, 05:58:18 PM
Quote from: Sentient on November 18, 2015, 05:44:56 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on November 18, 2015, 04:35:40 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/wNmaJqQ.jpg)
One of the things I have to say to the officials men and few women that are terrified by the idea of Syrian refugees finding sanctuary here is this. If you grown adults are afraid of ISIS/ISIL why the hell would you leave children to face them down when they can be made safe? Why have them and their families suffer these horrors and death as opposed to making them safe? That is the height of cowardice and it turns my stomach and hurts my heart. Suffer the little children. The very idea is unholy. On this issue my feelings are very passionate as is my judgment of the cowards refusing them and their families sanctuary.
Be still your heart... ethnomasochist... let these "refugees" take refuge in Saudi Arabia, or Iran or one of dozens of other muslim countries... they have the means... they share so much in common... so let them take them. Why are none going there?
The vast majority of refugees from Syria's civil war remain in the countries that neighbor Syria: 1.9 million in Turkey and 2.1 million in Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Egypt combined. (This is on top of nearly 8 million internally displaced within Syria)
so we DON"t need to take any... see?
No, I don't see and really do not understand the mentality of trying to figure out how we can't help or ignore those in terrible need. The people at risk are mostly in encampments in countries that are unprepared to handle the mass needs they represent. They lack even the most rudimentary things from ability to keep themselves and their families clean to well fed not to mention next to no medical help for the sick. The situation is very dangerous for them in these places which is precisely why civilized people and civilized countries are stepping up to help them out of what is a hell on earth.
Quote from: Tacachale on November 18, 2015, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:46:59 PM
Quote from: coredumped on November 18, 2015, 05:29:26 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:21:10 PM
I'm not defending Obama, but get real. It's got GHW Bush and GW Bush written all over it, too. It's not a one-party issue.
You can put Iraq on Bush, we expect that from him, he's a republican. But Obama has wanted his own war for several years. He ran on "hope" and "change" and other nonsense. Shame on us for believing him. He's got so much blood on his hands I don't see how anyone can stand behind him anymore.
So he got us in to this mess and now what? Like I said, there's no end in sight.
He didn't get anyone into anything. He continued where the other guy(s) left off. We wouldn't be in Iraq without either Bush. We wouldn't have created the conditions in Iraq that led to the rise of IS. Obama can be faulted to a point, but to say he got the US into this mess is disingenuous.
He can be faulted for mishandling the U.S. response in the region with a halfassed approach, though I expect that's not what Coredumped believes.
But either way, there are millions of refugees getting killed in conflicts in which we are involved. It's disappointing and sad to see so many of our leaders - especially the ones who've always called for even more military involvement in the Middle East - to advocate leaving these people out in the cold.
I'm just shocked at the lack of compassion and complete absence of any sense of humanity. Maybe I'm foolish for expecting better, I don't know.
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 06:36:45 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 18, 2015, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:46:59 PM
Quote from: coredumped on November 18, 2015, 05:29:26 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:21:10 PM
I'm not defending Obama, but get real. It's got GHW Bush and GW Bush written all over it, too. It's not a one-party issue.
You can put Iraq on Bush, we expect that from him, he's a republican. But Obama has wanted his own war for several years. He ran on "hope" and "change" and other nonsense. Shame on us for believing him. He's got so much blood on his hands I don't see how anyone can stand behind him anymore.
So he got us in to this mess and now what? Like I said, there's no end in sight.
He didn't get anyone into anything. He continued where the other guy(s) left off. We wouldn't be in Iraq without either Bush. We wouldn't have created the conditions in Iraq that led to the rise of IS. Obama can be faulted to a point, but to say he got the US into this mess is disingenuous.
He can be faulted for mishandling the U.S. response in the region with a halfassed approach, though I expect that's not what Coredumped believes.
But either way, there are millions of refugees getting killed in conflicts in which we are involved. It's disappointing and sad to see so many of our leaders - especially the ones who've always called for even more military involvement in the Middle East - to advocate leaving these people out in the cold.
I'm just shocked at the lack of compassion and complete absence of any sense of humanity. Maybe I'm foolish for expecting better, I don't know.
Always expect better!
The new colossus : or an American mission statement
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Curry disgusts me. He often forgets he is no longer the GOP Chair. He jumped on this bandwagon out of the need to insert himself in political games that he should really stay out of. What a slap in the face to the large Syrian refugee community already in Jacksonville. Piss them off by being a "dick" and yeah, then they might hate you.
What these uniformed political hacks don't realize is that any would be terrorists are not going to go through the rigorous process of seeking refuge which can take up to years to actually gain. Those who wish to do harm to us will come on student or work visas, with stolen passports, or illegally through some other means. They aren't going to wait years hoping to gain access to the U.S. to then do harm. Refugees are not our problem. In fact those that are here are really our biggest allies, and we should be celebrating their contributions to America instead of making them feel ashamed. ISIS is on a weekly terrorist campaign, and I strongly doubt they are planning events two years into the future.
If anything we should improve our screening processes for work and student visas and improve border security. These fear-mongering politicians could do more to protect Americans by passing universal background checks, banning assault weapons, reforming our criminal justice system, improving mental health care, preserving our water supply...I could go on and on. Americans do more to harm themselves, then terrorists are ever going to be able to do. While the French people stand in defiance to terrorism by continuing to live their lives and not giving into fear, Americans will shut our doors, give up on our strong belief system, and make each other paranoid. It is really quite sad.
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 06:36:45 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 18, 2015, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:46:59 PM
Quote from: coredumped on November 18, 2015, 05:29:26 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:21:10 PM
I'm not defending Obama, but get real. It's got GHW Bush and GW Bush written all over it, too. It's not a one-party issue.
You can put Iraq on Bush, we expect that from him, he's a republican. But Obama has wanted his own war for several years. He ran on "hope" and "change" and other nonsense. Shame on us for believing him. He's got so much blood on his hands I don't see how anyone can stand behind him anymore.
So he got us in to this mess and now what? Like I said, there's no end in sight.
He didn't get anyone into anything. He continued where the other guy(s) left off. We wouldn't be in Iraq without either Bush. We wouldn't have created the conditions in Iraq that led to the rise of IS. Obama can be faulted to a point, but to say he got the US into this mess is disingenuous.
He can be faulted for mishandling the U.S. response in the region with a halfassed approach, though I expect that's not what Coredumped believes.
But either way, there are millions of refugees getting killed in conflicts in which we are involved. It's disappointing and sad to see so many of our leaders - especially the ones who've always called for even more military involvement in the Middle East - to advocate leaving these people out in the cold.
I'm just shocked at the lack of compassion and complete absence of any sense of humanity. Maybe I'm foolish for expecting better, I don't know.
I feel the same way... but for different reasons than you
(http://d2n114696xot9z.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/media/isis_christian_beheading.jpg)
Very anecdotal, but I likely would not have enjoyed the life I've had in Jacksonville if it were not for a couple of Syrian refugees in the 1960's. When our family moved to Jax from South Georgia, flat broke, no job, this Syrian couple helped my father get employment that lasted for over 40 years with one company. They allowed us to move into a duplex with them in Riverside, and I grew up sharing meals with them; we introduced them to southern cooking and they taught us how to enjoy and make middle eastern cuisine.
In my work, I've dealt with many of the refugees and those coming over for asylum into our city. I've yet to meet one who is not appreciative of the opportunities they get simply by living in a free country. Are there issues with getting used to a new culture and fitting in, of course. But it's rare these difficulties turn into criminal or terrorist actions. We have many more home-grown criminals who are more likely to prey on them instead of the reverse.
Jacksonville still has the 5th largest Syrian population in the country. How do you think this type of reaction makes them feel? We are a very diverse city and that's part of our charm - and our curse, for those who think that a homogeneous society is best. This whole country is made of immigrants and we pride ourselves on having the freedom that should and does attract those who do not have it in their home countries.
I fear our "American" reaction in this instance will only underline what ISIS is telling the rest of the world - look, they talk a game of freedom and inclusion, but really, see they don't want you. The unintended consequence is likely going to be more war, more terrorism and more recruitment by these extremist groups. Note that you do not have to be middle eastern in your ancestry to be recruited - we seem to be growing them in the current population as well.
A proper and thorough background check as is done on the refugees we allow in will minimize the risk. Doing what we are now with our obviously xenophobic reaction will be certain to keep the cancer spreading. Think about the bigger picture and put down the broad brush.
Quote from: Scarlettjax on November 18, 2015, 09:34:00 PM
Very anecdotal, but I likely would not have enjoyed the life I've had in Jacksonville if it were not for a couple of Syrian refugees in the 1960's. When our family moved to Jax from South Georgia, flat broke, no job, this Syrian couple helped my father get employment that lasted for over 40 years with one company. They allowed us to move into a duplex with them in Riverside, and I grew up sharing meals with them; we introduced them to southern cooking and they taught us how to enjoy and make middle eastern cuisine.
In my work, I've dealt with many of the refugees and those coming over for asylum into our city. I've yet to meet one who is not appreciative of the opportunities they get simply by living in a free country. Are there issues with getting used to a new culture and fitting in, of course. But it's rare these difficulties turn into criminal or terrorist actions. We have many more home-grown criminals who are more likely to prey on them instead of the reverse.
Jacksonville still has the 5th largest Syrian population in the country. How do you think this type of reaction makes them feel? We are a very diverse city and that's part of our charm - and our curse, for those who think that a homogeneous society is best. This whole country is made of immigrants and we pride ourselves on having the freedom that should and does attract those who do not have it in their home countries.
I fear our "American" reaction in this instance will only underline what ISIS is telling the rest of the world - look, they talk a game of freedom and inclusion, but really, see they don't want you. The unintended consequence is likely going to be more war, more terrorism and more recruitment by these extremist groups. Note that you do not have to be middle eastern in your ancestry to be recruited - we seem to be growing them in the current population as well.
A proper and thorough background check as is done on the refugees we allow in will minimize the risk. Doing what we are now with our obviously xenophobic reaction will be certain to keep the cancer spreading. Think about the bigger picture and put down the broad brush.
"I fear our "American" reaction in this instance will only underline what ISIS is telling the rest of the world" - how naive are you? The muslims see the US propping up Israel for 60 years and acting as its agent in the ME... see us OCCUPYING muslim countries for a decade and killing over 500K people... while we CONTINUE TO BOMB and KILL their people in SYRIA every day.
But you think that protesting resettlement of 100k "refugees" is going to incite them and contribute to their fervor for killing us and all that we stand for? Have you ever had a thought in your life about these facts?????
https://youtu.be/tHuDKQYQCHc (https://youtu.be/tHuDKQYQCHc)
A snapshot of what is really happening in Europe as the immigrant army swarms across the borders - on to the new "holy land" of Germany. Why Germany? well they are running from conflict. Yes but there is no conflict in Turkey? Or Greece? Or Hungary? Or Romania? Or Slovenia?
Ohhh wait a sec - they are in it for the money...!!!! Oh OK that makes sense. They were completely safe in Turkey but know Germany has the biggest hand outs... so all aboard and off we go.
This is a war, make no mistake, populations are being displaced, without a shot fired. Tell the Indians how they should have welcomed the Plymouth party with open arms, you know they were just fleeing oppression and all. How did that work out for them?
Quote from: Sentient on November 18, 2015, 09:06:47 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 06:36:45 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 18, 2015, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:46:59 PM
Quote from: coredumped on November 18, 2015, 05:29:26 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:21:10 PM
I'm not defending Obama, but get real. It's got GHW Bush and GW Bush written all over it, too. It's not a one-party issue.
You can put Iraq on Bush, we expect that from him, he's a republican. But Obama has wanted his own war for several years. He ran on "hope" and "change" and other nonsense. Shame on us for believing him. He's got so much blood on his hands I don't see how anyone can stand behind him anymore.
So he got us in to this mess and now what? Like I said, there's no end in sight.
He didn't get anyone into anything. He continued where the other guy(s) left off. We wouldn't be in Iraq without either Bush. We wouldn't have created the conditions in Iraq that led to the rise of IS. Obama can be faulted to a point, but to say he got the US into this mess is disingenuous.
He can be faulted for mishandling the U.S. response in the region with a halfassed approach, though I expect that's not what Coredumped believes.
But either way, there are millions of refugees getting killed in conflicts in which we are involved. It's disappointing and sad to see so many of our leaders - especially the ones who've always called for even more military involvement in the Middle East - to advocate leaving these people out in the cold.
I'm just shocked at the lack of compassion and complete absence of any sense of humanity. Maybe I'm foolish for expecting better, I don't know.
I feel the same way... but for different reasons than you
(http://d2n114696xot9z.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/media/isis_christian_beheading.jpg)
I don't understand that you mean. I am talking about people fleeing IS, not IS.
I heard ISIS was contained, so they should be able to go back soon.
Quote from: stephendare on November 19, 2015, 10:21:11 AM
omg. so by this thinking, because of the fact that people like Michael Dunn and George Zimmerman, and any number of other killers, we should ban white immigrants from coming to the US?
A white christian terrorist (member of the christian identity movement) committed the OKC bombing. In fact, (white) christian identity movement groups (Aryan Nations, The Order, others) have committed lots of terrorist acts on US soil. What does that say about white christians?
The majority of mass shootings have been committed by white males. Should we bar all white males from having guns? Does this mean white males are a problem?
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/11/19/9760060/refugees-history-holocaust
(http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/11/19/9760060/refugees-history-holocaust)
(https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/SDLGWTWTRe0oqjbmdFPUQL12YT4=/2079x448:4511x2069/755x504/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/47696109/GettyImages-537569935.0.jpg)
How America's rejection of Jews fleeing Nazi Germany haunts our refugee policy today
(http://i.imgur.com/jjnXuyl.jpg)
Jesus and our founding fathers would surely approve of these two courageous defenders of the faith and our fair homeland from the immigrant horde and their diabolical offspring.
(http://i.imgur.com/o2lGLOr.jpg)
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on November 19, 2015, 11:22:17 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/jjnXuyl.jpg)
Jesus and our founding fathers would surely approve of these two courageous defenders of the faith and our fair homeland from the immigrant horde and their diabolical offspring.
(http://i.imgur.com/o2lGLOr.jpg)
kid second from left is obviously giving a sign or signal to sleeper cell.
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on November 19, 2015, 11:22:17 AM
Jesus and our founding fathers would surely approve of these two courageous defenders of the faith and our fair homeland from the immigrant horde and their diabolical offspring.
As I said in the other thread, I don't think Jesus would be too shocked. Every Christmas his follows put out displays of a homeless middle eastern couple forced to give birth in a barn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXag4HcSfdc
Quote from: Sentient on November 18, 2015, 10:05:05 PM
https://youtu.be/tHuDKQYQCHc (https://youtu.be/tHuDKQYQCHc)
A snapshot of what is really happening in Europe as the immigrant army swarms across the borders - on to the new "holy land" of Germany. Why Germany? well they are running from conflict. Yes but there is no conflict in Turkey? Or Greece? Or Hungary? Or Romania? Or Slovenia?
Ohhh wait a sec - they are in it for the money...!!!! Oh OK that makes sense. They were completely safe in Turkey but know Germany has the biggest hand outs... so all aboard and off we go.
This is a war, make no mistake, populations are being displaced, without a shot fired. Tell the Indians how they should have welcomed the Plymouth party with open arms, you know they were just fleeing oppression and all. How did that work out for them?
Don't worry Sentient... they are skipping the whole "paperwork and vetting thing" and entering via our Texas/Mexico interface...rofl...
Legitimate question:
Has there been an end-game discussed?
Like it or not, we're going to shelter hundreds of thousands of refugees. What's the plan when their civil war is over?
I mean are we just going to ship them back? Do they have a choice? Is the plan to force 'assimilation'? Or has no one given any thought to that part yet? Is this one of those build / design projects?
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 19, 2015, 12:40:16 PM
Legitimate question:
Has there been an end-game discussed?
Like it or not, we're going to shelter hundreds of thousands of refugees. What's the plan when their civil war is over?
I mean are we just going to ship them back? Do they have a choice? Is the plan to force 'assimilation'? Or has no one given any thought to that part yet? Is this one of those build / design projects?
My legitimate answer: there is no end game. Who the hell are we fighting anyway? People who hate Americans? Good luck ridding the planet of people like that. Yes, they're very bad people, the things they do are awful and disgusting, but this is not a country we're fighting where they'll sign an instrument of surrender.
There's no end in sight. We've been at it 14 years now, only a few more years and we'll tie with the Vietnam war.
no end in sight.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 19, 2015, 12:40:16 PM
Like it or not, we're going to shelter hundreds of thousands of refugees.
Try 10,000.
http://www.federaltimes.com/story/government/omr/cybercon/2015/11/18/dhs-head-us-accept-10000-syrian-refugees-2016/76007708/
To be fair this isn't some "racist Republican ideology here in Jax" (some wanna spin this into) that's dening Syrian refugees, 31 states aren't welcoming them. 10 states aren't committing including the liberal oasis Cali, and only 5 states are welcoming them; WA, CO, PA, VT, and CT.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/world/paris-attacks-syrian-refugees-backlash/
Quote from: Scarlettjax on November 18, 2015, 09:34:00 PM
Very anecdotal, but I likely would not have enjoyed the life I've had in Jacksonville if it were not for a couple of Syrian refugees in the 1960's. When our family moved to Jax from South Georgia, flat broke, no job, this Syrian couple helped my father get employment that lasted for over 40 years with one company. They allowed us to move into a duplex with them in Riverside, and I grew up sharing meals with them; we introduced them to southern cooking and they taught us how to enjoy and make middle eastern cuisine.
In my work, I've dealt with many of the refugees and those coming over for asylum into our city. I've yet to meet one who is not appreciative of the opportunities they get simply by living in a free country. Are there issues with getting used to a new culture and fitting in, of course. But it's rare these difficulties turn into criminal or terrorist actions. We have many more home-grown criminals who are more likely to prey on them instead of the reverse.
Jacksonville still has the 5th largest Syrian population in the country. How do you think this type of reaction makes them feel? We are a very diverse city and that's part of our charm - and our curse, for those who think that a homogeneous society is best. This whole country is made of immigrants and we pride ourselves on having the freedom that should and does attract those who do not have it in their home countries.
I fear our "American" reaction in this instance will only underline what ISIS is telling the rest of the world - look, they talk a game of freedom and inclusion, but really, see they don't want you. The unintended consequence is likely going to be more war, more terrorism and more recruitment by these extremist groups. Note that you do not have to be middle eastern in your ancestry to be recruited - we seem to be growing them in the current population as well.
A proper and thorough background check as is done on the refugees we allow in will minimize the risk. Doing what we are now with our obviously xenophobic reaction will be certain to keep the cancer spreading. Think about the bigger picture and put down the broad brush.
Thanks for sharing this story of your personal experience. These are human beings we are talking about with all the generosity and kindness of good folks over the globe. They are human beings in the midst of deadly turmoil that the did not create. It is the positive in all people that society should focus on when in comes to viewing our worldwide family. What those who hate do not understand is that you can embrace with gentleness at the same time you are taking great care to see no harm comes to our own. Fear drives hatred and confrontation. That is what terrorists rely upon. Kindness, love and acceptance of differences breeds trust. We in America believe ourselves to be fair and just. Rejecting human beings on the basis of fear is not only weak but without honor. We must hold tight to our honor which is bolstered by a genuine love of humanity.
Quote from: finehoe on November 19, 2015, 12:47:48 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 19, 2015, 12:40:16 PM
Like it or not, we're going to shelter hundreds of thousands of refugees.
Try 10,000.
http://www.federaltimes.com/story/government/omr/cybercon/2015/11/18/dhs-head-us-accept-10000-syrian-refugees-2016/76007708/
Per the articla:
QuoteAs the humanitarian crisis continues in Syria and the territories held by the Islamic State terrorist group, the U.S. will be taking in at least 10,000 refugees, Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson reaffirmed during a Nov. 18 speech.
...While this is a big increase, it's still only 0.25 percent of the millions of refugees seeking asylum, Johnson noted.
So somewhere between 10k & 1M?
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 19, 2015, 01:10:51 PM
Quote from: finehoe on November 19, 2015, 12:47:48 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 19, 2015, 12:40:16 PM
Like it or not, we're going to shelter hundreds of thousands of refugees.
Try 10,000.
http://www.federaltimes.com/story/government/omr/cybercon/2015/11/18/dhs-head-us-accept-10000-syrian-refugees-2016/76007708/
Per the articla:
QuoteAs the humanitarian crisis continues in Syria and the territories held by the Islamic State terrorist group, the U.S. will be taking in at least 10,000 refugees, Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson reaffirmed during a Nov. 18 speech.
...While this is a big increase, it's still only 0.25 percent of the millions of refugees seeking asylum, Johnson noted.
So somewhere between 10k & 1M?
Hardly. With the lengthy and time consuming vetting process currently being used, handling extremely high numbers of refugees is not possible at this time and certainly not likely. However, whatever the amount, once they have gone through this difficult process that takes up to two years, they certainly should be welcome as immigrants not refugees. Right now the amount is 10,000 which is minimal considering the need.
Quote from: finehoe on November 19, 2015, 12:47:48 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 19, 2015, 12:40:16 PM
Like it or not, we're going to shelter hundreds of thousands of refugees.
Try 10,000.
http://www.federaltimes.com/story/government/omr/cybercon/2015/11/18/dhs-head-us-accept-10000-syrian-refugees-2016/76007708/
Vote Clinton and try 65,000:
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-calls-us-accept-65000-refugees
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 19, 2015, 01:10:51 PM
So somewhere between 10k & 1M?
If every single person leaving Syria comes to the US perhaps, but that isn't going to happen.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on November 18, 2015, 04:04:15 PM
Frances response.
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/18/3723440/france-refugees/
QuoteIn a speech to mayors from around France, Hollande said France would welcome 30,000 refugees over the next two years. That's even more than the 24,000 he committed to accepting in September.
Hollande said that he would invest about $53.3 million to develop housing for refugees.
He added that that refugees will undergo thorough security checks before entering the country before addressing calls from the country's largest opposition parties, the ultra-right Front National.
Acknowledging fears among many in France after 129 were killed in gun and bomb attacks on Friday, Hollande said, "[It is] our duty to protect our people
Oh wow how awsome - 30,000 over the next two years - that's about 9,000 less than what Sweden (9,7 Million inhabitants) took in during the month of October alone (i.e. during one month).
http://www.migrationsverket.se/download/18.7c00d8e6143101d166d1aab/1446451028489/Inkomna+ans%C3%B6kningar+om+asyl+2015+-+Applications+for+asylum+received+2015.pdf (http://www.migrationsverket.se/download/18.7c00d8e6143101d166d1aab/1446451028489/Inkomna+ans%C3%B6kningar+om+asyl+2015+-+Applications+for+asylum+received+2015.pdf)
Of the 2,174 Syrian refugees admitted to the United States since September 11, 2001, not a single one has been arrested or deported on terrorism-related grounds.
Quote from: Adam White on November 19, 2015, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: stephendare on November 19, 2015, 10:21:11 AM
omg. so by this thinking, because of the fact that people like Michael Dunn and George Zimmerman, and any number of other killers, we should ban white immigrants from coming to the US?
A white christian terrorist (member of the christian identity movement) committed the OKC bombing. In fact, (white) christian identity movement groups (Aryan Nations, The Order, others) have committed lots of terrorist acts on US soil. What does that say about white christians?
The majority of mass shootings have been committed by white males. Should we bar all white males from having guns? Does this mean white males are a problem?
Did they do this in the name of Jesus and / or Christianity and did they target non Christians or those who they did not believe to be "true" Christians ?
I don't really care the actual number.
What is the plan once their civil war ends?
Are they going to be naturalized citizens? Will they have visas? Is there a plan in place to get them back home? Are we expecting them to stay here?
What if they get here and don't like it?
Do they have a choice to go back after their war depending on who's in charge? Who's responsibility is it to get them home?
1,000 or 10,000,000.... it doesn't matter. Has an exit plan even been discussed?
Quote from: Gunnar on November 19, 2015, 01:43:22 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 19, 2015, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: stephendare on November 19, 2015, 10:21:11 AM
omg. so by this thinking, because of the fact that people like Michael Dunn and George Zimmerman, and any number of other killers, we should ban white immigrants from coming to the US?
A white christian terrorist (member of the christian identity movement) committed the OKC bombing. In fact, (white) christian identity movement groups (Aryan Nations, The Order, others) have committed lots of terrorist acts on US soil. What does that say about white christians?
The majority of mass shootings have been committed by white males. Should we bar all white males from having guns? Does this mean white males are a problem?
Did they do this in the name of Jesus and / or Christianity and did they target non Christians or those who they did not believe to be "true" Christians ?
Gosh, I hope this important discussion is not derailed by a religious tit for tat which will take ups completely. What we are talking about is the stance Lenny Curry and Rick Scott that they would not accept Syrian refugees into our city or state.
Quote from: Gunnar on November 19, 2015, 01:43:22 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 19, 2015, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: stephendare on November 19, 2015, 10:21:11 AM
omg. so by this thinking, because of the fact that people like Michael Dunn and George Zimmerman, and any number of other killers, we should ban white immigrants from coming to the US?
A white christian terrorist (member of the christian identity movement) committed the OKC bombing. In fact, (white) christian identity movement groups (Aryan Nations, The Order, others) have committed lots of terrorist acts on US soil. What does that say about white christians?
The majority of mass shootings have been committed by white males. Should we bar all white males from having guns? Does this mean white males are a problem?
Did they do this in the name of Jesus and / or Christianity and did they target non Christians or those who they did not believe to be "true" Christians ?
They targeted people that they believed were part of the "ZOG" or Zionist Occupation Government. So yeah, in their own twisted way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zionist_Occupation_Government_conspiracy_theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zionist_Occupation_Government_conspiracy_theory)
As far as general mass shooting are concerned, there have been a number motivated by religious hatred, the Sikh temple shooting springs to mind.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 19, 2015, 02:03:21 PM
I don't really care the actual number.
What is the plan once their civil war ends?
Are they going to be naturalized citizens? Will they have visas? Is there a plan in place to get them back home? Are we expecting them to stay here?
What if they get here and don't like it?
Do they have a choice to go back after their war depending on who's in charge? Who's responsibility is it to get them home?
1,000 or 10,000,000.... it doesn't matter. Has an exit plan even been discussed?
All refugees regardless of the country from which the hail are allowed to pursue the avenues to legal immigrant and then naturalized citizenship. That has not changed because the newest immigrants are Syrian. Of course when the war is over or even before refugees can return to their homeland. All the options are open to them.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 19, 2015, 02:03:21 PM
I don't really care the actual number.
What is the plan once their civil war ends?
Are they going to be naturalized citizens? Will they have visas? Is there a plan in place to get them back home? Are we expecting them to stay here?
What if they get here and don't like it?
Do they have a choice to go back after their war depending on who's in charge? Who's responsibility is it to get them home?
1,000 or 10,000,000.... it doesn't matter. Has an exit plan even been discussed?
The US has been accepting refugees since before WWII; this isn't a new phenomenon that nobody has thought about before:
http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 19, 2015, 02:03:21 PM
I don't really care the actual number.
What is the plan once their civil war ends?
Are they going to be naturalized citizens? Will they have visas? Is there a plan in place to get them back home? Are we expecting them to stay here?
What if they get here and don't like it?
Do they have a choice to go back after their war depending on who's in charge? Who's responsibility is it to get them home?
1,000 or 10,000,000.... it doesn't matter. Has an exit plan even been discussed?
If they are legally admitted, then they have are legally permitted to be here and have a legal path to permanent residency and citizenship. If they come here as refugees, the status of the war/crisis they fled is immaterial. If they want to go back when (if) it is over, they can make that decision on their own. The US government doesn't just control the remainder of their life once they get here.
It's basically just an exception in a typical immigration policy.
My mother was an immigrant to both the USA and the UK. Granted, she wasn't a refugee, but she moved to the UK at a time when people with her accent were widely considered terrorists. She's not a terrorist and none of her family are or were.
I wouldn't be here today if my mother hadn't been allowed to make either of those moves. Based on this, some of you may feel that is reason enough to tighten our immigration controls. But I digress...
Refugees are just immigrants. Syrians are just people like you or me. We are a country founded on immigration and we are a country of people who pride themselves on their values and the "American dream". If we honestly believe the USA is the greatest country in the world, then we should live up to our own hype and prove it.
Quote from: finehoe on November 19, 2015, 02:10:26 PM
The US has been accepting refugees since before WWII; this isn't a new phenomenon that nobody has thought about before:
http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum
I realize this. The numbers sounded large to me, but that's because this is another issue that I haven't given a second though to until recently.
Seems like the US takes in between 55k to 75k annually as is, so even though the numbers seem large, they're not. Based off of what I read from this site http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/refugees-fact-sheet the 100k number that I've been seeing could be a new cap number the fed is seeking as a total allowed for the year and not specifically Syrians..
Thanks for the website to get things started on my end..
Edit:
I also didn't realize until just a bit ago that refugee is more than a word describing someone fleeing their homeland, but it's also a protected class of person with their own set of rules.
I guess I could have read into this more before originally posting, but that's not really the MJ way... ;)
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12234910_10153488271281130_4887005305994862_n.jpg?oh=08aac8c1e01ed3776a6937f37eaba285&oe=56B06B8B)
I know it's a joke, but new borns and their mothers aren't the concern.
Quote from: coredumped on November 19, 2015, 05:47:47 PM
I know it's a joke, but new borns and their mothers aren't the concern.
The only people who are concerned are racists.
Quote from: Adam White on November 19, 2015, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: coredumped on November 19, 2015, 05:47:47 PM
I know it's a joke, but new borns and their mothers aren't the concern.
The only people who are concerned are racists.
If you want to be technical, not liking Syrians is not racist. "Syrian" is a catch all term for a group of various indigenous tribes and backgrounds living west of the Euphrates.
Its similar to calling someone an "American" which isnt a race either.
If you wanted to be racist you would reject Arameans, one of the larger races in the region.
It would be interesting to see,if given the chance, opportunity or polling question, which areas of Jacksonville prospective Syrian residents would chose.
And likely the newcomers would 'cluster'.
Quote from: spuwho on November 19, 2015, 07:19:41 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 19, 2015, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: coredumped on November 19, 2015, 05:47:47 PM
I know it's a joke, but new borns and their mothers aren't the concern.
The only people who are concerned are racists.
If you want to be technical, not liking Syrians is not racist. "Syrian" is a catch all term for a group of various indigenous tribes and backgrounds living west of the Euphrates.
Its similar to calling someone an "American" which isnt a race either.
If you wanted to be racist you would reject Arameans, one of the larger races in the region.
If you want to be technical, race is a social construct with no inherent meaning. But the meaning is clear enough.
Quote from: coredumped on November 19, 2015, 05:47:47 PM
I know it's a joke, but new borns and their mothers aren't the concern.
Then how come Lenny Curry and co. don't want to let them come over as refugees?
Quote from: stephendare on November 19, 2015, 08:36:15 PM
You are right Tacachale, this is pathetic and embarrassing. Any idea why the mayor decided to take a public stand on this at all?
He took a stand because he misses his old job of GOP chair. Basically it was an easy headline and a way to suck up to Scott.
Does he even know we have a large Syrian population living in Jacksonville? Has he taken the time to meet with them to hear their stories?
As I stated earlier in this thread, refugees going through the official vetting process are not who we should be worrying about. Those who want to harm us will come with stolen passports as tourists, or illegally enter the country by some other means. ISIS isn't interested in waiting years for their members to go through an official refugee process to enter this country.
It was disgraceful what the Indiana governor did this week. The parents with their child fled their country almost 4 years ago and are just now getting to come to the United States. What rational person thinks that they could be terrorists?!?! Americans have lost their frickin minds.
What bothers me even more is that providing refuge to those who are in need is a Christian value. Most of the resettling organizations in America are Christian based. Yet those politicians shouting anti-refugee hatred claim to be Christians! Such ignorant hypocrites!
I've been so upset this week by what's happening in our country. I could keep going but will spare all of you the lecture. :(
Quote from: stephendare on November 19, 2015, 08:36:15 PM
You are right Tacachale, this is pathetic and embarrassing. Any idea why the mayor decided to take a public stand on this at all?
Presumably he's just falling in line with other Republicans, who've decided to make it another backward issue they can be on the wrong side of history with.
Quote from: coredumped on November 19, 2015, 05:47:47 PM
I know it's a joke, but new borns and their mothers aren't the concern.
Actually, it's not a joke.
You guys are missing the larger point, this issue is not about Syrians, its about American borders, period. Syrians are just one group, what about those who are fleeing terror in Beruit? What about the killings in Nigeria, a bomb blast kills 31 in Yola. Human rights issues in China and North Korea.
Everyone wants to leave their crappy old country and come to the US, when the US cannot even take care of its own people. At some point, someone with Grande Huevos is going to have to take a stand and fight for the people inside the United States and say, he, we're sorry, we got to take care of our own people first.
Just like American cannot be the world's policeman, it cannot be the savior of last resort.
Quote from: spuwho on November 19, 2015, 07:19:41 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 19, 2015, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: coredumped on November 19, 2015, 05:47:47 PM
I know it's a joke, but new borns and their mothers aren't the concern.
The only people who are concerned are racists.
If you want to be technical, not liking Syrians is not racist. "Syrian" is a catch all term for a group of various indigenous tribes and backgrounds living west of the Euphrates.
Its similar to calling someone an "American" which isnt a race either.
If you wanted to be racist you would reject Arameans, one of the larger races in the region.
If you want to be accurate, there are no such thing as races because that concept is antiquated and is no longer accepted. So the word racism doesn't have anything to do with race - it refers to others who are different from you (in layman's terms).
Quote from: mtraininjax on November 20, 2015, 12:33:07 AM
You guys are missing the larger point, this issue is not about Syrians, its about American borders, period. Syrians are just one group, what about those who are fleeing terror in Beruit? What about the killings in Nigeria, a bomb blast kills 31 in Yola. Human rights issues in China and North Korea.
Everyone wants to leave their crappy old country and come to the US, when the US cannot even take care of its own people. At some point, someone with Grande Huevos is going to have to take a stand and fight for the people inside the United States and say, he, we're sorry, we got to take care of our own people first.
Just like American cannot be the world's policeman, it cannot be the savior of last resort.
If America doesn't take care of its own people, it's not because it doesn't have the ability to - it's because it lacks the political will or desire to.
Quote from: Adam White on November 20, 2015, 01:21:07 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on November 20, 2015, 12:33:07 AM
You guys are missing the larger point, this issue is not about Syrians, its about American borders, period. Syrians are just one group, what about those who are fleeing terror in Beruit? What about the killings in Nigeria, a bomb blast kills 31 in Yola. Human rights issues in China and North Korea.
Everyone wants to leave their crappy old country and come to the US, when the US cannot even take care of its own people. At some point, someone with Grande Huevos is going to have to take a stand and fight for the people inside the United States and say, he, we're sorry, we got to take care of our own people first.
Just like American cannot be the world's policeman, it cannot be the savior of last resort.
If America doesn't take care of its own people, it's not because it doesn't have the ability to - it's because it lacks the political will or desire to.
Some people in America don't want help. Out of a lot of the people that are homeless have mental health issues. But you can't remove them off the streets and lock them away without them being harmful to themselves or others. I see a black man walking down the street with a bed sheet he looks like Superman. I see a blond hair lady that walks with her suit case etc etc etc. Is America taking care of these people. Do you remember old John the ex sheriff of Jax/Fl how much time was wasted on removing the homeless from downtown. And old John wanted to bus the homeless to a shelter outside of Downtown. So it would make it hard for them to get back to the downtown area. I'm glad this never happen for the homeless have the same rights as we all do. I find other Americans stupid and uncaring when they say "first take care of our people before we take care of any Refugees." God what a copout. :(
Curry walked back his statements from the Senate letter a bit:
Quote
Jacksonville, FL — A day after Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry sends letters to the regional Congressional delegation saying he supports calls from Governor Rick Scott to halt Syrian refugee admissions, he wants to make it clear that his stance is not about the people.
"I love Syrian refugees- those that are here, welcome to our City," he says.
Curry says his concern is the process by which refugees are admitted to the US, then Florida and ultimately Jacksonville.
"Terrorists will use that process, if it's not tight, to get in to our country and our city," he says.
I asked Curry whether he's comfortable with the amount of vetting that's taken place on the Syrian refugees who are already in the City. After a pause, he didn't answer directly.
"Look, I'm addressing where we are right now, and we're a welcoming and a caring city. I just want to make sure that the federal government can give us some assurances that the process and the vetting procedures work," Curry says.
...
http://www.wokv.com/news/news/local/jax-mayor-loves-syrian-refugees-not-admissions-pro/npQgt/
Quote
...
"I love Syrian refugees," Curry says. "Those that are here, welcome to our city. We want to be helpful. My statement on the Syrian refugees yesterday was about a process. The facts are someone used that process to work their way into Paris and commit an act of terrorism."
Curry is referring to reports that a Syrian passport was found next to the body of one of the Paris attackers. But the validity of that document is questionable. The Guardian reported Serbian and Grecian officials have found evidence the passport may have been fake.
Curry and other opponents of resettlement say the process lacks security and Congress passed a measure putting resettlement on pause with a veto-proof majority, although Democratic senators say they'll vote the bill down.
...
http://news.wjct.org/post/aftermath-paris-attacks-jacksonville-syrians-speak-out
Quote from: Tacachale on November 20, 2015, 09:08:00 AM
Curry walked back his statements from the Senate letter a bit:
Quote
Jacksonville, FL — A day after Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry sends letters to the regional Congressional delegation saying he supports calls from Governor Rick Scott to halt Syrian refugee admissions, he wants to make it clear that his stance is not about the people.
"I love Syrian refugees- those that are here, welcome to our City," he says.
Curry says his concern is the process by which refugees are admitted to the US, then Florida and ultimately Jacksonville.
"Terrorists will use that process, if it's not tight, to get in to our country and our city," he says.
I asked Curry whether he's comfortable with the amount of vetting that's taken place on the Syrian refugees who are already in the City. After a pause, he didn't answer directly.
"Look, I'm addressing where we are right now, and we're a welcoming and a caring city. I just want to make sure that the federal government can give us some assurances that the process and the vetting procedures work," Curry says.
...
http://www.wokv.com/news/news/local/jax-mayor-loves-syrian-refugees-not-admissions-pro/npQgt/
Quote
...
"I love Syrian refugees," Curry says. "Those that are here, welcome to our city. We want to be helpful. My statement on the Syrian refugees yesterday was about a process. The facts are someone used that process to work their way into Paris and commit an act of terrorism."
Curry is referring to reports that a Syrian passport was found next to the body of one of the Paris attackers. But the validity of that document is questionable. The Guardian reported Serbian and Grecian officials have found evidence the passport may have been fake.
Curry and other opponents of resettlement say the process lacks security and Congress passed a measure putting resettlement on pause with a veto-proof majority, although Democratic senators say they'll vote the bill down.
...
http://news.wjct.org/post/aftermath-paris-attacks-jacksonville-syrians-speak-out
Jesus Christ Curry you're the Mayor of Jacksonville Florida stop acting like your running for President of the Untied States of America. ::)
US Republicans- Generally love to engage in wars with other countries; The War of Terror, being the World's Police etc.
US Democrats- Hypocritically say that 'we should stay out of other countries business' (generally being anti-War) but are very quick to make the US the World's humanitarian dumping grounds to many people that have a totally differing outlook in life opposed to the American way. The Dems philosophy is the save everyone, and bring them over (because we have to show everyone how accepting we are) then when a terrorist attack happens, deal with it then.
Which refugee terrorist attack ever happened in the US? I'll deal with it if you can explain which one it was.
Saying Democrats are against war is like saying Republicans are for small government.
Quote from: coredumped on November 20, 2015, 12:16:07 PM
Saying Democrats are against war is like saying Republicans are for small government.
That's why I used the word 'generally', of course Democrats have been involved in wars. Just sway my comment the way that you want to, with the 'all people lumped in a group' crap, no questions asked...Do you think that someone like Bernie Sanders likes warfare?
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 20, 2015, 12:06:34 PM
Which refugee terrorist attack ever happened in the US? I'll deal with it if you can explain which one it was.
Soi just throw 'refugee' as a title, and it automatically conveys "all innocent law abiding people that's looking for a better way of life" No pernicious Bronze Age ways of thinking within ALL of these people (ie stonings Sharia Law etc) okay, sure gotcha buddy....
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on November 20, 2015, 09:18:14 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 20, 2015, 09:08:00 AM
Curry walked back his statements from the Senate letter a bit:
Quote
Jacksonville, FL — A day after Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry sends letters to the regional Congressional delegation saying he supports calls from Governor Rick Scott to halt Syrian refugee admissions, he wants to make it clear that his stance is not about the people.
"I love Syrian refugees- those that are here, welcome to our City," he says.
Curry says his concern is the process by which refugees are admitted to the US, then Florida and ultimately Jacksonville.
"Terrorists will use that process, if it's not tight, to get in to our country and our city," he says.
I asked Curry whether he's comfortable with the amount of vetting that's taken place on the Syrian refugees who are already in the City. After a pause, he didn't answer directly.
"Look, I'm addressing where we are right now, and we're a welcoming and a caring city. I just want to make sure that the federal government can give us some assurances that the process and the vetting procedures work," Curry says.
...
http://www.wokv.com/news/news/local/jax-mayor-loves-syrian-refugees-not-admissions-pro/npQgt/
Quote
...
"I love Syrian refugees," Curry says. "Those that are here, welcome to our city. We want to be helpful. My statement on the Syrian refugees yesterday was about a process. The facts are someone used that process to work their way into Paris and commit an act of terrorism."
Curry is referring to reports that a Syrian passport was found next to the body of one of the Paris attackers. But the validity of that document is questionable. The Guardian reported Serbian and Grecian officials have found evidence the passport may have been fake.
Curry and other opponents of resettlement say the process lacks security and Congress passed a measure putting resettlement on pause with a veto-proof majority, although Democratic senators say they'll vote the bill down.
...
http://news.wjct.org/post/aftermath-paris-attacks-jacksonville-syrians-speak-out
Jesus Christ Curry you're the Mayor of Jacksonville Florida stop acting like your running for President of the Untied States of America. ::)
(http://i.imgur.com/CN6QHPO.jpg)
It should come as a surprise to no one that Lenny Curry now says he "loves" Syrians and we are a welcoming city because that is the only course open to him in the wake of his ill thought position on Syrian immigrants and rejection of same to save face morally. A person who loves a group of people will give those people the benefit of the doubt regarding their intentions and integrity, especially considering the fact that as group, not a single Syrian immigrant in the U.S. has ever been accused of anything having to do with terrorism.
Curry wrote his letter to Florida Senator Marco Rubio via his Washington address on November 17th and copied that letter to a single person, Governor Rick Scott. This of course to show the Governor that he fell right into line with his own concerns as baseless as they may have been. Curry did not however write to or share his concerns with the President of our nation, nor did he bother contacting Florida Senator Bill Nelson. His intention it would seem went well beyond the issue itself and became a statement of support for Rick Scott's declaration that he did not want Syrian refugees in Florida. GOP power pandering at its best. If this were more than partisan politics and truly about all citizens of Jacksonville and our safety, he would have contacted the President Obama and our Florida Democrat Senator as well to share his concerns or ask their opinions to come up with a balanced reply. The decision to reach out only to those in the GOP with this concern is telling.
In his letter Curry's initial statement is as follows:
QuoteAs mayor for the people of Jacksonville, I make public safety my top priority. In the aftermath of this
weekend's horrific terrorist attacks in Paris, I am more committed than ever to do everything I can to eliminate
threats to our city's safety. Among the facts coming out of Paris is news that at least one of the eight terrorists who conducted the attacks entered Europe with a special passport as a refugee of Syria. In light of this, I am very concerned about the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program
Well now, here is the thing.
There was no "factual" report stating that one of the terrorists in Paris entered with a passport as a refugee of Syria yet Curry stated it as fact. It turns out that this was rumor and completely false. Apparently the mayor did not seek verification of this rumor he called fact before arbitrarily deciding that Syrian refugees represented a threat to our nation, state or city.
Paris officials did indeed report that all of the terrorists were members of the European Union. Not one was from Syria or a refugee. It appears the mayor decided that a media rumor was enough proof to sound the alarm that would restrict the entrance of people needing sanctuary from the rabid violence in their own country.
Curry's concern about the refugee program also rings hollow if indeed he had looked into the process at all. Had he done so he would have known that the parameters for refugees, including those from Syria which have been on the books in updated form since 2014 and they are extremely rigid and take over two years of time to conclude.
Curry then went on to state the following:
QuoteThe people of our nation, our state, and this great city have a long history of compassion in response to humanitarian needs around the globe. We are a community that respects diversity in religious and political thought. Yet, we cannot allow those who would do us harm to use our principles and beliefs as a weakness to exploit, particularly when those who claim credit for the Paris attacks have promised attacks on United States soil. As a result, I join Florida Governor Rick Scott in his request of Members of Congress "to take any action
available through the powers of the United States Congress to prevent federal allocations toward the relocation
of Syrian refugees without extensive examination into how this would affect our homeland security."
Curry states that no action to help relocate these suffering people should be undertaken and asks the Congress to use it's power to stop them coming without further examination as to their effect on homeland security. Really? Our nation has been busily working at identifying and categorizing terrorist threats and the individuals associated with them since 9/11. There has been no alarm given by Homeland Security that the Syrian refugees are a threat at any level, especially our nations security. They are simply people like all other people who have been forced from their home by violence and war. That does not make them a threat, that makes them people in need of help, understanding and sanctuary.
In these words we see that Curry following the lead of Rick Scott have somehow determined that Syrian Refugees are folks who would do us harm or exploit us. Those are his words. The problem is there have been no threats made to this city, state or nation by Syrian refugees nor in our own city which has the 5th largest Syrian population in the nation. Syrian refugees have never/ever threatened the safety or exploited anyone in America. They in fact represent no threat. So Curry/Scott see them as a threat based upon a false rumor or straight up xenophobia. This entire episode does show the people of Jacksonville something quite important which is that our mayor and governor will judge a person or people suspect based upon rumor and innuendo rather than recorded facts or real experience. That is a weakness that is unacceptable in leadership when it hurts innocent, suffering individuals simply because of their race or religion.
Click this link to view Curry's letter: http://www.scribd.com/doc/290082322/Syrian-letter-to-Rubio
(http://i.imgur.com/juMiQg8.jpg)
Quote from: I-10east on November 20, 2015, 05:22:28 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 20, 2015, 12:06:34 PM
Which refugee terrorist attack ever happened in the US? I'll deal with it if you can explain which one it was.
Soi just throw 'refugee' as a title, and it automatically conveys "all innocent law abiding people that's looking for a better way of life" No pernicious Bronze Age ways of thinking within ALL of these people (ie stonings Sharia Law etc) okay, sure gotcha buddy....
Not all Muslims are in favour of "Sharia law" or stonings. Seriously.
Quote from: I-10east on November 20, 2015, 05:15:09 PM
Do you think that someone like Bernie Sanders likes warfare?
No - but anything can happen (and sometimes does) when a person becomes President.
Quote from: Adam White on November 20, 2015, 06:14:35 PM
Quote from: I-10east on November 20, 2015, 05:22:28 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 20, 2015, 12:06:34 PM
Which refugee terrorist attack ever happened in the US? I'll deal with it if you can explain which one it was.
Soi just throw 'refugee' as a title, and it automatically conveys "all innocent law abiding people that's looking for a better way of life" No pernicious Bronze Age ways of thinking within ALL of these people (ie stonings Sharia Law etc) okay, sure gotcha buddy....
Not all Muslims are in favour of "Sharia law" or stonings. Seriously.
Guys, not all Muslims are Syrian and not all Syrian refugees are either.Some are Christians. We are talking about Syrian's, a people who have been displaced by a gruesome war who are victims forced from their homes. How sad that refugees who have already suffered so much for so long are seen and portrayed as a threat when the fact are the is no threat of record or violence against America by any of the refugees seeking asylum. They are victims and completely undeserving of the actions and recent commentary of many public officials as well as some running for office. Those who attack them with word or deed shame our country greatly. See what I posted above for more info.
No throwing labels needed. Here is the fact.
The joined forces of IS, Al-Qaeda and Boko Haram make up 0.003% of the Muslim population and that it is simply unrealistic and stupid to blame 1.6 billion Muslims for the unjustifiable acts of a few crazy people.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on November 20, 2015, 06:24:09 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 20, 2015, 06:14:35 PM
Quote from: I-10east on November 20, 2015, 05:22:28 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 20, 2015, 12:06:34 PM
Which refugee terrorist attack ever happened in the US? I'll deal with it if you can explain which one it was.
Soi just throw 'refugee' as a title, and it automatically conveys "all innocent law abiding people that's looking for a better way of life" No pernicious Bronze Age ways of thinking within ALL of these people (ie stonings Sharia Law etc) okay, sure gotcha buddy....
Not all Muslims are in favour of "Sharia law" or stonings. Seriously.
Guys, not all Muslims are Syrian and not all Syrian refugees are either.Some are Christians. We are talking about Syrian's, a people who have been displaced by a gruesome war who are victims forced from their homes. How sad that refugees who have already suffered so much for so long are seen and portrayed as a threat when the fact are the is no threat of record or violence against America by any of the refugees seeking asylum. They are victims and completely undeserving of the actions and recent commentary of many public officials as well as some running for office. Those who attack them with word or deed shame our country greatly. See what I posted above for more info.
I know not all Syrians are Muslims*. But the original poster was referring to Muslims. That's why he mentioned Sharia. I don't think this is an issue of Syrians - it's an issue of Syrian Muslims. If it were only Syrian Christians (and possibly Druze) seeking refuge, there wouldn't be an outcry.
*the vast majority of Syrians (over 80%) are Muslims, though.
Quote from: I-10east on November 20, 2015, 09:11:59 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 20, 2015, 06:14:35 PM
Quote from: I-10east on November 20, 2015, 05:22:28 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 20, 2015, 12:06:34 PM
Which refugee terrorist attack ever happened in the US? I'll deal with it if you can explain which one it was.
Soi just throw 'refugee' as a title, and it automatically conveys "all innocent law abiding people that's looking for a better way of life" No pernicious Bronze Age ways of thinking within ALL of these people (ie stonings Sharia Law etc) okay, sure gotcha buddy....
Not all Muslims are in favour of "Sharia law" or stonings. Seriously.
Look back at what I said thoroughly. I never said that all of Syria believes in stonings. Is this seriously the crux of every argument on MJ (I'm referring to every Syrian or Muslim)? Even when I cover my ass being PC, yall still come with that 'marginalizing an entire group' bullcrap. Maybe that's the only argument liberals have (the outcrys against the supposed marginalization of everyone within a minority group).
Dude, you said:
Soi just throw 'refugee' as a title, and it automatically conveys "all innocent law abiding people that's looking for a better way of life" No pernicious Bronze Age ways of thinking within ALL of these people (ie stonings Sharia Law etc) okay, sure gotcha buddy....So it would appear you are saying ALL refugees are guilty of "pernicious Bronze Age ways of thinking".
If that's not what you meant, then I'm really lost here. Because it's what you said.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on November 20, 2015, 09:19:28 PM
No throwing labels needed. Here is the fact.
The joined forces of IS, Al-Qaeda and Boko Haram make up 0.003% of the Muslim population and that it is simply unrealistic and stupid to blame 1.6 billion Muslims for the unjustifiable acts of a few crazy people.
A lot like blaming the Southern Baptists, Mormons, Catholics, Jews, Methodists etc etc etc.
Thanksgiving is coming next week. We were the terrorists to the Native Indians. So when you give Thanks remember all the people we have killed for peace. :(
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 05:19:27 PM
Quote from: TheCat on November 18, 2015, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Adam White on November 18, 2015, 03:14:16 PM
Is this about civil liberties? Sounds more like it's a knee-jerk reaction fueled by racism.
The USA is (in part) responsible for IS in the first place. It needs to pony up and take its share of refugees. Americans need to turn off the television and stop being a bunch of fucking crybabies. Just like ebola didn't get you, Syrian refugees aren't going to get you.
I don't think it's fueled by racism. It's fueled by election year fear-mongering, which Curry is well-acquainted with.
Tacachale, please see my article "The Curry Campaign is Fear Mongering" ;).
Beware of people who thrive on violence.
But the fear is based on racism. It's fear of the other - the unwashed, godless hordes with dark(er) skin. It's Islamophobia.
Yes, i don't disagree.
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on November 21, 2015, 08:03:54 AM
Thanksgiving is coming next week. We were the terrorists to the Native Indians. So when you give Thanks remember all the people we have killed for peace. :(
My husband is full blood Native American. We are well aware of the history and treatment of America's first people much of it continuing today. Knowing the legacy of being driven out from your home is all the more reason why we understand the needs and the hurt the Syrian people are going through.
This is pure anguish. These are the people that Lenny Curry and Rick Scott would turn their back on because they fear them. That in my view is cowardice. To let people suffer this way when they could find solace and sanctuary is a sin against humanity.
(http://i.imgur.com/qSc2Q2k.jpg)
A friend who is an immigration attorney posted this on Facebook. Kind of long, but informative:
"The refugee screening process is multi-layered and is very difficult to get through. Most people languish in temporary camps for months to years while their story is evaluated and checked.
First, you do not get to choose what country you might be resettled into. If you already have family (legal) in a country, that makes it more likely that you will go there to be with family, but other than that it is random. So, you can not simply walk into a refugee camp, show a document, and say, I want to go to America. Instead, the UNHCR (United Nations High Commissioner on Refugees) works with the local authorities to try to take care of basic needs. Once the person/family is registered to receive basic necessities, they can be processed for resettlement. Many people are not interested in resettlement as they hope to return to their country and are hoping that the turmoil they fled will be resolved soon. In fact, most refugees in refugee events never resettle to a third country. Those that do want to resettle have to go through an extensive process.
Resettlement in the U.S. is a long process and takes many steps. The Refugee Admissions Program is jointly administered by the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration (PRM) in the Department of State, the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) in the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), and offices within the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) within DHS conducts refugee interviews and determines individual eligibility for refugee status in the United States.
We evaluate refugees on a tiered system with three levels of priority.
First Priority are people who have suffered compelling persecution or for whom no other durable solution exists. These individuals are referred to the United States by UNHCR, or they are identified by the U.S. embassy or a non-governmental organization (NGO).
Second priority are groups of "special concern" to the United States. The Department of State determines these groups, with input from USCIS, UNHCR, and designated NGOs. At present, we prioritize certain persons from the former Soviet Union, Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Iran, Burma, and Bhutan.
Third priority are relatives of refugees (parents, spouses, and unmarried children under 21) who are already settled in the United States may be admitted as refugees. The U.S.-based relative must file an Affidavit of Relationship (AOR) and must be processed by DHS.
Before being allowed to come to the United States, each refugee must undergo an extensive interviewing, screening, and security clearance process conducted by Regional Refugee Coordinators and overseas Resettlement Support Centers (RSCs). Individuals generally must not already be firmly resettled (a legal term of art that would be a separate article). Just because one falls into the three priorities above does not guarantee admission to the United States.
The Immigration laws require that the individuals prove that they have a "well-founded fear," (another legal term which would be a book.) This fear must be proved regardless of the person's country, circumstance, or classification in a priority category. There are multiple interviews and people are challenged on discrepancies. I had a client who was not telling the truth on her age and the agency challenged her on it. Refugees are not simply admitted because they have a well founded fear. They still must show that they are not subject to exclusion under Section 212(a) of the INA. These grounds include serious health matters, moral or criminal matters, as well as security issues. In addition, they can be excluded for such things as polygamy, misrepresentation of facts on visa applications, smuggling, or previous deportations. Under some circumstances, the person may be eligible to have the ground waived.
At this point, a refugee can be conditionally accepted for resettlement. Then, the RSC sends a request for assurance of placement to the United States, and the Refugee Processing Center (RPC) works with private voluntary agencies (VOLAG) to determine where the refugee will live. If the refugee does have family in the U.S., efforts will be made to resettle close to that family.
Every person accepted as a refugee for planned admission to the United States is conditional upon passing a medical examination and passing all security checks. Frankly, there is more screening of refugees than ever happens to get on an airplane. Of course, yes, no system can be 100% foolproof. But if that is your standard, then you better shut down the entire airline industry, close the borders, and stop all international commerce and shipping. Every one of those has been the source of entry of people and are much easier ways to gain access to the U.S. Only upon passing all of these checks (which involve basically every agency of the government involved in terrorist identification) can the person actually be approved to travel.
Before departing, refugees sign a promissory note to repay the United States for their travel costs. This travel loan is an interest-free loan that refugees begin to pay back six months after arriving in the country.
Once the VOLAG is notified of the travel plans, it must arrange for the reception of refugees at the airport and transportation to their housing at their final destination.
This process from start to finish averages 18 to 24 months, but I have seen it take years.
The reality is that about half of the refugees are children, another quarter are elderly. Almost all of the adults are either moms or couples coming with children. Each year the President, in consultation with Congress, determines the numerical ceiling for refugee admissions. For Fiscal Year (FY) 2016, the proposed ceiling is 85,000. We have been averaging about 70,000 a year for the last number of years. (Source: Refugee Processing Center)
Over one-third of all refugee arrivals (35.1 percent, or 24,579) in FY 2015 came from the Near East/South Asia—a region that includes Iraq, Iran, Bhutan, and Afghanistan.
Another third of all refugee arrivals (32.1 percent, or 22,472) in FY 2015 came from Africa.
Over a quarter of all refugee arrivals (26.4 percent, or 18,469) in FY 2015 came from East Asia — a region that includes China, Vietnam, and Indonesia. (Source: Refugee Processing Center)
Finally, the process in Europe is different. I would be much more concerned that terrorists are infiltrating the European system because they are not nearly so extensive and thorough in their process."
Lets be honest, if you move people thousands of miles hell tens of thousands of miles they are not refugees they are in fact immigrants. I'm not sure why this has become the cause of the moment of the progressive movement. Before the paris attacks not sure anyone here cared a rats ass about syria. There were a few old threads
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=19447.0
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=22093.0
If I remember correctly the biggest concern was the chemical weapons. Not so much assad "hes a reformer" Hillary Clinton (her royal highness) killing the residents with conventional weapon was completely cool .
If we want to take care of these people wouldn't it make more sense to set up refugee camps (UN anyone) close to syria to prevent the sad deaths that no one cared about a year ago and is the cause of the moment of hash tag diplomacy.
Sorry I know I'm either an islamaphobe or a racist. hell call me both been done enough
No one still hasn't responded to this which I posted earlier...
Quote from: I-10east on November 19, 2015, 12:57:18 PM
To be fair this isn't some "racist Republican ideology here in Jax" (some wanna spin this into) that's dening Syrian refugees, 31 states aren't welcoming them. 10 states aren't committing including the liberal oasis Cali, and only 5 states are welcoming them; WA, CO, PA, VT, and CT.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/world/paris-attacks-syrian-refugees-backlash/
It's only a 'local and state' problem with Curry, and Scott, okay...That's some rhetoric for ya...
Quote from: civil42806 on November 22, 2015, 07:11:04 PM
Lets be honest, if you move people thousands of miles hell tens of thousands of miles they are not refugees they are in fact immigrants. I'm not sure why this has become the cause of the moment of the progressive movement. Before the paris attacks not sure anyone here cared a rats ass about syria. There were a few old threads
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=19447.0
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=22093.0
If I remember correctly the biggest concern was the chemical weapons. Not so much assad "hes a reformer" Hillary Clinton (her royal highness) killing the residents with conventional weapon was completely cool .
If we want to take care of these people wouldn't it make more sense to set up refugee camps (UN anyone) close to syria to prevent the sad deaths that no one cared about a year ago and is the cause of the moment of hash tag diplomacy.
Sorry I know I'm either an islamaphobe or a racist. hell call me both been done enough
I don't know if you're an islamophobe or a racist - but you're shocking uninformed on the subject you are offering an opinion on:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/jordan/11782854/Inside-the-largest-Syrian-refugee-camp-Zaatari-camp-three-years-on.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/jordan/11782854/Inside-the-largest-Syrian-refugee-camp-Zaatari-camp-three-years-on.html)
http://theweek.com/captured/449516/life-inside-syrian-refugee-camps (http://theweek.com/captured/449516/life-inside-syrian-refugee-camps)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_refugee_camps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_refugee_camps)
Quote from: Adam White on November 23, 2015, 01:32:15 AM
Quote from: civil42806 on November 22, 2015, 07:11:04 PM
Lets be honest, if you move people thousands of miles hell tens of thousands of miles they are not refugees they are in fact immigrants. I'm not sure why this has become the cause of the moment of the progressive movement. Before the paris attacks not sure anyone here cared a rats ass about syria. There were a few old threads
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=19447.0
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=22093.0
If I remember correctly the biggest concern was the chemical weapons. Not so much assad "hes a reformer" Hillary Clinton (her royal highness) killing the residents with conventional weapon was completely cool .
If we want to take care of these people wouldn't it make more sense to set up refugee camps (UN anyone) close to syria to prevent the sad deaths that no one cared about a year ago and is the cause of the moment of hash tag diplomacy.
Sorry I know I'm either an islamaphobe or a racist. hell call me both been done enough
I don't know if you're an islamophobe or a racist - but you're shocking uninformed on the subject you are offering an opinion on:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/jordan/11782854/Inside-the-largest-Syrian-refugee-camp-Zaatari-camp-three-years-on.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/jordan/11782854/Inside-the-largest-Syrian-refugee-camp-Zaatari-camp-three-years-on.html)
http://theweek.com/captured/449516/life-inside-syrian-refugee-camps (http://theweek.com/captured/449516/life-inside-syrian-refugee-camps)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_refugee_camps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_refugee_camps)
You missed the point. why the sudden weeping and hysteria, why is this the issue of the moment. From your links this has been going on for years . Syria has been a bad place to live for over 40 years. Assad the senior was a horrible person and his son is no better. Though her royal highness (HRH) thought hr was a reformer and pelosi though he was the bees knees.
Quote from: civil42806 on November 23, 2015, 05:07:25 AM
Quote from: Adam White on November 23, 2015, 01:32:15 AM
Quote from: civil42806 on November 22, 2015, 07:11:04 PM
Lets be honest, if you move people thousands of miles hell tens of thousands of miles they are not refugees they are in fact immigrants. I'm not sure why this has become the cause of the moment of the progressive movement. Before the paris attacks not sure anyone here cared a rats ass about syria. There were a few old threads
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=19447.0
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=22093.0
If I remember correctly the biggest concern was the chemical weapons. Not so much assad "hes a reformer" Hillary Clinton (her royal highness) killing the residents with conventional weapon was completely cool .
If we want to take care of these people wouldn't it make more sense to set up refugee camps (UN anyone) close to syria to prevent the sad deaths that no one cared about a year ago and is the cause of the moment of hash tag diplomacy.
Sorry I know I'm either an islamaphobe or a racist. hell call me both been done enough
I don't know if you're an islamophobe or a racist - but you're shocking uninformed on the subject you are offering an opinion on:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/jordan/11782854/Inside-the-largest-Syrian-refugee-camp-Zaatari-camp-three-years-on.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/jordan/11782854/Inside-the-largest-Syrian-refugee-camp-Zaatari-camp-three-years-on.html)
http://theweek.com/captured/449516/life-inside-syrian-refugee-camps (http://theweek.com/captured/449516/life-inside-syrian-refugee-camps)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_refugee_camps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_refugee_camps)
You missed the point. why the sudden weeping and hysteria, why is this the issue of the moment. From your links this has been going on for years . Syria has been a bad place to live for over 40 years. Assad the senior was a horrible person and his son is no better. Though her royal highness (HRH) thought hr was a reformer and pelosi though he was the bees knees.
It would appear that you aren't too familiar with what has been happening.
Although this has been happening for years, the numbers dramatically changed in 2015. Over the course of 2015, the number of refugees increased exponentially. This further intensified what was already a crisis. The main route of migration also seemed to change - prior to 2015, most refugees seemed to be coming across via boat from Libya to Italy. This year, the main route seems to have changed to Greece via Turkey. This may be due to the increase of sea patrols by Italy, the UK and other nations.
This massive upswing in refugees - and the increase in deaths of refugees - has brought this matter to the forefront of public consciousness. That said, it has been in the UK press for quite some time now (certainly for the past two years or more).
I cannot vouch for why the issue has become a hot topic in the USA - though I assume it's a combination of sensationalistic news and opinions programmes, the increase in terrorist attacks in Europe and the election campaign.
It's no different than Americans actually being worried about ebola or about IS invading the USA via Mexico. The news treats its viewers like they are children and, sadly, the viewers oftentimes live up to that expectation.
Quote from: civil42806 on November 23, 2015, 05:07:25 AM
why the sudden weeping and hysteria, why is this the issue of the moment.
Because politicians like Lenny Curry, who have absolutely no say in the matter, decided to try and score political points with the issue after the Paris terrorist attacks.
Quote from: finehoe on November 23, 2015, 10:16:46 AM
Quote from: civil42806 on November 23, 2015, 05:07:25 AM
why the sudden weeping and hysteria, why is this the issue of the moment.
Because politicians like Lenny Curry, who have absolutely no say in the matter, decided to try and score political points with the issue after the Paris terrorist attacks.
Unfortunately, there's a whole lot of truth to that.
it's the only reason.
It's important to remember the the United States had already decided to take in 10,000 Syrian refugees before the attacks in Paris and none of the governors or mayors now making a stink about them coming to the U.S. before the Paris attack had shared any concerns about the effort. The refugee policy which is strong was also in place before the Paris event. So as others have already stated, this is political posturing, nothing more and I find it shameful because it is a political game being played on the backs of suffering people.
I helped settle some CIA backed rebels that came in under refugee status. State Department wents nuts over it and tried to block it and failed. To provide cover they were flown in and spread out over several cities at the same time the day we started Desert Storm.
I still remember sitting down with them and our translator and the rebel leader was complaining about the house we had provided. So he called his CIA contact in DC and belly ached. Didnt change much to be honest.
We provided food and housing and support for them until they could get jobs. They all expressed the desire to get their families to the US because their government pronounced them dead when the CIA recruited them.
I ran into one of the rebels years later as he was driving my cab. He freaked when I recognized him as he thought I was an agent from his former country. When I explained to him that I was there to get him at the airport, then he chilled out.
We had a good chat about his effort to get his family here and what was involved. He had moved from the house we had provided and was living with some other ex-pats all trying to get their families to the US.
Issues of religion or beliefs was never an issue. They even came to our Christian church for a little while while they acclimated to American life. The sight of them pulling out prayer blankets after church and praying towards Mecca was interesting to say the least.
All that to say, we shouldnt place an outright ban, but we should perform some level of screening. This was normal at Ellis Island in that era and should be today.
^ Thank you for this post. That is a very interesting story.
Of course we should do screening. We already do pretty rigorous screening, and I doubt anyone would have a problem doing a bit more if only to assuage fear. But we shouldn't be trying to back out of supporting people in need, especially when we're actively involved in the war that's caused the refugee crisis.
Quote from: Tacachale on November 23, 2015, 01:16:36 PM
Of course we should do screening. We already do pretty rigorous screening, and I doubt anyone would have a problem doing a bit more if only to assuage fear. But we shouldn't be trying to back out of supporting people in need, especially when we're actively involved in the war that's caused the refugee crisis.
But we were hoping that Syria leader would have left the country or been killed. So all these Refugees wouldn't have had to leave a land they call home. But since Russia wants the Syria leader to stay and ISIS is still in Syria even with the bombs being dropped. It's getting to look like World War III is taking shape in the middle east. And Mayor Curry just be the Mayor Of a not so Bold City of the South. Can you handle that? ::)
Quote from: spuwho on November 23, 2015, 12:38:58 PM
... we should perform some level of screening. This was normal at Ellis Island in that era and should be today.
I guess nobody read my earlier post.
Quote from: finehoe on November 21, 2015, 03:31:49 PM
"The refugee screening process is multi-layered and is very difficult to get through. Most people languish in temporary camps for months to years while their story is evaluated and checked.
First, you do not get to choose what country you might be resettled into. If you already have family (legal) in a country, that makes it more likely that you will go there to be with family, but other than that it is random. So, you can not simply walk into a refugee camp, show a document, and say, I want to go to America. Instead, the UNHCR (United Nations High Commissioner on Refugees) works with the local authorities to try to take care of basic needs. Once the person/family is registered to receive basic necessities, they can be processed for resettlement. Many people are not interested in resettlement as they hope to return to their country and are hoping that the turmoil they fled will be resolved soon. In fact, most refugees in refugee events never resettle to a third country. Those that do want to resettle have to go through an extensive process.
Resettlement in the U.S. is a long process and takes many steps. The Refugee Admissions Program is jointly administered by the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration (PRM) in the Department of State, the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) in the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), and offices within the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) within DHS conducts refugee interviews and determines individual eligibility for refugee status in the United States.
We evaluate refugees on a tiered system with three levels of priority.
First Priority are people who have suffered compelling persecution or for whom no other durable solution exists. These individuals are referred to the United States by UNHCR, or they are identified by the U.S. embassy or a non-governmental organization (NGO).
Second priority are groups of "special concern" to the United States. The Department of State determines these groups, with input from USCIS, UNHCR, and designated NGOs. At present, we prioritize certain persons from the former Soviet Union, Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Iran, Burma, and Bhutan.
Third priority are relatives of refugees (parents, spouses, and unmarried children under 21) who are already settled in the United States may be admitted as refugees. The U.S.-based relative must file an Affidavit of Relationship (AOR) and must be processed by DHS.
Before being allowed to come to the United States, each refugee must undergo an extensive interviewing, screening, and security clearance process conducted by Regional Refugee Coordinators and overseas Resettlement Support Centers (RSCs). Individuals generally must not already be firmly resettled (a legal term of art that would be a separate article). Just because one falls into the three priorities above does not guarantee admission to the United States.
The Immigration laws require that the individuals prove that they have a "well-founded fear," (another legal term which would be a book.) This fear must be proved regardless of the person's country, circumstance, or classification in a priority category. There are multiple interviews and people are challenged on discrepancies. I had a client who was not telling the truth on her age and the agency challenged her on it. Refugees are not simply admitted because they have a well founded fear. They still must show that they are not subject to exclusion under Section 212(a) of the INA. These grounds include serious health matters, moral or criminal matters, as well as security issues. In addition, they can be excluded for such things as polygamy, misrepresentation of facts on visa applications, smuggling, or previous deportations. Under some circumstances, the person may be eligible to have the ground waived.
At this point, a refugee can be conditionally accepted for resettlement. Then, the RSC sends a request for assurance of placement to the United States, and the Refugee Processing Center (RPC) works with private voluntary agencies (VOLAG) to determine where the refugee will live. If the refugee does have family in the U.S., efforts will be made to resettle close to that family.
Every person accepted as a refugee for planned admission to the United States is conditional upon passing a medical examination and passing all security checks. Frankly, there is more screening of refugees than ever happens to get on an airplane. Of course, yes, no system can be 100% foolproof. But if that is your standard, then you better shut down the entire airline industry, close the borders, and stop all international commerce and shipping. Every one of those has been the source of entry of people and are much easier ways to gain access to the U.S. Only upon passing all of these checks (which involve basically every agency of the government involved in terrorist identification) can the person actually be approved to travel.
Before departing, refugees sign a promissory note to repay the United States for their travel costs. This travel loan is an interest-free loan that refugees begin to pay back six months after arriving in the country.
Once the VOLAG is notified of the travel plans, it must arrange for the reception of refugees at the airport and transportation to their housing at their final destination.
This process from start to finish averages 18 to 24 months, but I have seen it take years."
I also helped bring in refugees from Vietnam as well, but under different circumstances.
Their status was verified by the fact they were children (and grandchildren) of now gone US troops that once served there. (Yes Finehoe I am familiar with the checklist you posted).
They were rejected from attending Viet govt. schools and had problems getting jobs due to their mixed heritage. So we helped resettle Afro-Viets, Cauca-Viets, some with red hair and freckles. Somehow one came through with a case of TB, which we got to a doctor right away. Another one was secretly pregnant and didnt want to say to avoid rejection, but we knew right away she was of child.
We took them all down to Little Vietnam in Chicago so they could find familiar food and network with other Viets.
They made it known that it was not in their culture to accept a handout. So a month after we got them into their house, they threw a huge Viet style party for us to thank you for our help. It was the best Viet food I have ever had and it was a wonderful time.
I later ran into the kids who were just toddlers when they arrived and they were scholars at the local schools now and were very adept at helping their parents and grandparents with modern America.
No one here cared abound the mixed heritage. We are used to it.
Back to Syria....
We recently sold a car to a Syrian family who escaped and flew to the US via Jordan before the ISIS threat became big. More around the time of the Aleppo uprisngs.
They shared the horrors they were dealing with and how your life was in danger if you strayed to far beyond your town due to the lack of rule. You werent sure if you faced Pro Assad authority or a militia or the FSA.
The sister started crying telling her stories and how school was becoming impossible for any kids regardless of background.
I dont think these people wanted to leave, but had to, to survive. If your life is at risk going to the local market, the schools keep closing, and going to work is an exercise in possible death, who blames them for leaving?
However, just dumping them on US soil without some sort of support system and people willing to help with the transition by providing housing and food, will just ostracize them and foster ill will.
But make no mistakes, in some of those families we settled, there were some bad apples. One Viet ended up in prostitution and another got wrapped up in drugs.
The biggest stumbling block we had with middle eastern cultures was pride. Some (but not all) found it humiliating to have to accept so much charity just to get by. It was one of the transition challenges we faced.
I read it Fine and saved it. Excellent post.