JTA is having a public open on the Skyway's future this afternoon at the Main Library. From my understanding, none of the options under consideration include an alternative that utilizes the existing elevated infrastructure for something that can possibly be extended into adjacent neighborhoods at-grade. The Streetcar option is to demolish the Skyway, possibly pay federal money back, and then pay $20 to $40 million per mile for a ground level streetcar line that generally follows the same path as the Skyway does now. The cost difference in utilizing existing infrastructure vs tear down and rebuild new is pretty significant. Thus, I'm looking forward to seeing why only heavier modern streetcars
(like the Brooksville Liberty in Dallas) were considered as opposed to streetcars light enough
(like the PCC in Boston/Philly/El Paso or replica trolleys like those in Tampa/Memphis/Little Rock) to be supported by existing infrastructure.
Here's a link to the technology assessment report for anyone interested:http://assets.jtafla.com/Documents/General/Skyway/1_draft_skyway_technology_assessment_report_082015/1001/1_draft_skyway_technology_assessment_report_082015.pdf
QuoteFOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
JTA Schedules Public Forum to Discuss Skyway
JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA – October 22, 2015 – The Jacksonville Transportation Authority's (JTA) Skyway Subcommittee has scheduled a public forum to review options for the Skyway and to engage the community in a conversation about its future.
The forum will be in an open house format where customers can arrive within the meeting window, discuss the proposals and provide feedback.
Dates and locations for the Skyway Subcommittee Meetings
Monday, October 26, 2015
Main Library Multipurpose Room # 1
303 North Laura Street
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Subcommittee and Advisory Group Meeting
4 p.m. to 5:30 p.m.
Public Forum
5:30 p.m. to 7 p.m.
Monday, November 9, 2015
2 p.m. to 4 p.m.
JTA Admin Building
121 West Forsyth Street, Ste. 200
3rd Floor Boardroom
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Monday, November 23, 2015
2 p.m. to 4 p.m.
JTA Admin Building
121 West Forsyth Street, Ste. 200
3rd Floor Boardroom
Jacksonville, FL 32202
The meeting agenda for October 26 includes a Downtown Vision and Master Plan presentation from Aundra Wallace, Chief Executive Officer with the Downtown Investment Authority, a recap of the last meeting and a presentation on the JTA Transit System Vision.
Dang, I'm out of town. Lake, are you going? It would be good to talk to JTA about the possibility of doing streetcar on the elevated sections.
I plan on stopping by after work.
I really wish I could make it to this. This is an important issue for the core and some of the options being discussed are colossally bad.
I am very concerned about what this group is going to recommend. I could not imagine dismantling a system that has seen a dramatic rise in ridership and it is easily in JTA's top 5 routes in terms of daily ridership.
Any news on how this went? Or was it so bad it deserves a headline article?
Quote from: jaxlore on October 27, 2015, 10:50:15 AM
Any news on how this went? Or was it so bad it deserves a headline article?
Bump
I am trying to attend the 11/9 session.
I attended Monday's meeting. I'll provide a more informative response a little later.
How many years has a transit naive citizenry allowed JTA to cook up figures and dubious 'facts' gobbled up by the local media and digested by the general public as gospel?
QuoteStreetcars run in streets at a average speed of 12mph.
Streetcars MUST compete with automobiles.
Light Rail provides the 'last mile' connection for regional Bus Rapid Transit.
Streetcars are 19Th Century Technology.
Streetcars cost more to maintain.
Light Rail doesn't have the passenger-per-mile-per-day capacity that BRT has.
You can't run streetcars to the stadium via East Beaver Street, there is no street!
Streetcars must have a grove in the center of the street where contact is made with the power wire.
The lightest streetcars available are easily 80,000 + pounds.
BRT is just like rail - only cheaper.
The 1990's were the decade of rebuilding streetcars and the 2000's will belong to Bus Rapid Transit.
You build BRT and then, when the traffic builds to a certain point, you 'just slide rails under it' and you have Light Rail.
...And the list just keeps on growing.
Pull your head out Jacksonville!
Quote from: thelakelander on October 30, 2015, 06:01:21 PM
I attended Monday's meeting. I'll provide a more informative response a little later.
I attended. They are considering four options:
1. Overhaul of existing Automated People Mover (APM) vehicles. (These can't run at-grade)
2. New APM vehicles, which would allow limited expansion to San Marco, Brooklyn and Everbank Field. (These can't run at-grade)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Indianapolis-Clarian-Health/i-BnnbFjv/0/L/P1060862-L.jpg)
SDI proposes modifying their Indianapolis peoplemover vehicle to run on the Skyway's infrastructure.(http://www.bombardier.com/content/dam/Websites/bombardiercom/Projects/innovia-apm--200-automated-people-mover-phoenix-4367.jpg/_jcr_content/renditions/cq5dam.web.570.570.jpeg)
Bombardier Innovia APM 200 suggests they could possibly pull out the Skyway's monorail beam and modify infrastructure to run their Innovia APM on it.3. Decommission Skyway, tear elevated infrastructure down and replace with a ground level modern streetcar or BRT system. (We'd have to pay the feds back and this option does not take advantage of the investment already made in the elevated infrastructure.)
4. Decommission Skyway and turn elevated infrastructure into an elevated jogging path. (We'd have to pay the feds back, spend millions retrofitting structure to help remove the few people we have....off downtown's streets. Also, does not address transit replacement).
I thought there should be an additional option that puts new vehicles that can operate at-grade, on the existing infrastructure. Thus, we'd have an elevated system downtown that could be extended to actually penetrate deep into neighborhoods like Riverside, Springfield, San Marco, etc. at a lower cost that's also appropriate to the surrounding context.
(http://www.modernstreetcar.org/images/5113_1031_Montague_sm.jpg)
The skyway's infrastructure can't support the weight of a modern streetcar (left). However, there are examples of smaller streetcars (right) that weigh the same or less than the Skyway's vehicles, while carrying more passengers.It's believed that the elevated infrastructure can't support the weight of heavier modern streetcars, which I'm in agreement with. Thus, we'd have to consider something like PCC, Birney or Peter Witt streetcars. Transit systems serving Boston, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Tampa, Little Rock, San Diego, Kenosha, and soon El Paso, are US examples currently using these types of cars. There are US manufacturers, such as Gomaco Trolley Company and Brooksville Equipment Company that still manufacture and recondition these vehicles, so common parts (in terms of O&M consideration) are available.
PCC Streetcar(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/San-Francisco-Aug-2009/i-rRvQBMn/1/X2/DSC_0402-L.jpg)
Peter Witt Streetcar(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/San-Francisco-Aug-2009/i-vLQjCSN/1/X2/DSC_0186-L.jpg)
Birney Streetcar(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Tampa-2014/i-6HMJKd3/0/X2/DSCF4694-L.jpg)
I'm working on an article with Ocklawaha that explains this is greater detail. With that said, JTA does have a survey and meeting material online. Here's a link:
http://www.jtafla.com/about-jta/skyway-researchreports/skyway-survey/
I took the survey. The last JTA survey I took they removed the bus stop from the end of my block so hoping things will go slightly better.