Hello, as a Riverside expat who still works and plays in the area, I'm curious about what the rental prices are like these days. It's been about 4 years since I've lived in the area full time.
To give you an idea of what I paid in the past, a 1 bedroom was had in the mid 2000's for about 550 a month
A two bedroom in 2008 on Myra st cost me about 720 a month. Another two bedroom town-home on Downing near Lee was around 895 a month in 2010. All were fairly spacious.
The reason I bring this up is I've been hearing a lot of talk in the various Riverside haunts about rent prices increasingly drastically over the past few years and this rental listing on tradionsjax seems to prove it:
http://traditionsjax.com/mls/2055-HERSCHEL-ST-3-JACKSONVILLE-FL-32204-mls_797677/?SavedSearch=20140327174232174000000000&PropertyType=D&pg=1&My=office&OrderBy=-ListPrice&p=y&n=y
1500 a month for two bedroom (from my old landlord on Myra actually) And yes, I know other larger cities are way more expensive, and that's something I don't envy. Seems like the area continues to grow in popularity and inventory is lower than ever.
Is Riverside getting "Brooklynized" finally? :D
I know there are still some deals to be had, but I'm curious as to what everyone else's experience is with the rentals in the area.
you are paying for that great location, plus that unit looks well maintained.
Oh I know, just seems like quiet a spike over the past few years. Even as recent as 2012 it seems like a unit like that would go for under 1,000 easily. From what i'm seeing there's a large swing between rental prices for equivalent apartments. Some of the landlords are keeping their prices stuck in 2005 whereas others are wising up and charging more because they know people will pay it.
That same landlord in the traditionsjax listing charged about 720 a month for 1000 sq ft two bedroom on Myra st years ago. It was newly renovated as well. it's interesting to see the area take off like it has. It's definitely way more lively now than even the few short years ago that I lived there.
Yes it has spiked. And Murray Hill is reaping the benefits...seems to be approx what Riverside was about a decade ago.
That unit looks pretty nice. I'm sure you can still find cheaper similar sized properties in the area. They just won't be as well maintained.
I've showed that unit before (back around 2010) - it is very nicely renovated and in an incredible location - less than a block from Mossfire, Black Sheep, etc. I believe it was renting for around $1,200 per month 5 years ago.
High rents make it possible for new housing and commercial spaces to be build and old ones renovated... And also hopefully lead to improvements in other similar but cheaper areas like Murray Hill and Springfield.
Quote from: lowlyplanner on October 21, 2015, 01:38:43 PM
I've showed that unit before (back around 2010) - it is very nicely renovated and in an incredible location - less than a block from Mossfire, Black Sheep, etc. I believe it was renting for around $1,200 per month 5 years ago.
High rents make it possible for new housing and commercial spaces to be build and old ones renovated... And also hopefully lead to improvements in other similar but cheaper areas like Murray Hill and Springfield.
Ah, yes. This one's within a stone's throw of 5 points, I do recall apartments in that area being a little more pricey. So 1500 for a two bedroom still isn't the norm for a decent apartment in other areas of Riverside it sounds like. The ones I mentioned earlier were a good walk from 5 points, but i'm sure even those are pulling in 300 or more a month now.
Just curious about the current Riverside rental market, supply and demand etc. (And kicking myself for not buying an investment property 4 years ago when prices were low!)
Quote from: David on October 21, 2015, 02:36:06 PM
Just curious about the current Riverside rental market, supply and demand etc. (And kicking myself for not buying an investment property 4 years ago when prices were low!)
I bought one 5 years ago and it's killing :)
Max is right. If you don't want to miss the next wave, buy one in Murray Hill. We've renovated two houses there in the past four months and they both rented very quickly with a fantastic ROI.
Sounds like rents are essentially moving to market, as market is defined in much of the Sunbelt, for premium location, views, and/or space. This rental seems to have 2 of the 3 ingredients for higher rents relative to market (location and space), and at ~$1.50psf is still considered top of the market for Jacksonville. The only places you'll find these $1.50psf rents, or slightly slightly higher, are new apartments in Brooklyn (but not even all of those), Strand, new luxury apartments right next to SJTC, and right around 5 Points (as this one is).
Put in perspective, premium intown rentals in Charlotte, Nashville, and Atlanta are all around $2.50psf now. Austin has exceeded $3psf to be downtown. Even the tippy top rents of Birmingham, AL for the best locations are a bit above those found in Jax, so perhaps relative to local incomes or what locals are used to, the relatively few "hip", walkable, or active areas in town near amenities and restaurants and jobs (i.e. Riverside 5 Points, beaches, and SJTC) are seeing high rents.
The rent increases are catching everyone off guard. I saw Jax listed near the top of cities recently in a ranking of YoY rent increases. The actual rents listed were by far the lowest, but the rent increases were up there behind only a few cities like Oakland, SF, Denver, etc. Cost of living increases are catching up with all cities. It's probably part of the reason why more companies in NYC and SF aren't actually packing their bags...there's even more of a quality of life imbalance in places like Jacksonville where yea, wages are super low, but quality of life features are severely lacking and all of a sudden in 2-3 years time, relative to itself, it has gotten expensive to live there.
You can't go from $900 avg rent to $1200 avg rent in 2-3 years, no pay increases, and no new amazing features or qualities in the city and justify snagging a ton of employees/companies going through the same thing on a different scale in cities that already have everything everyone wants.
Very limited inventory plus strong demand equals high rent. Two people sharing it splits out to a good deal for both. They pay $750 each plus utilities/cable/ etc........... Works out to be a good deal since you can leave your car parked for much of your "down time." And it's even better if you work in the neighborhood.
I have listed and sold several multi-family buildings in Riverside-Avondale, many of them to repeat customers.
I have one coming up soon 2 blocks from Kickbacks. Feel free to PM me if you are a serious Buyer prospect.
Quote from: MusicMan on October 21, 2015, 09:06:59 PM
I have one coming up soon 2 blocks from Kickbacks. Feel free to PM me if you are a serious Buyer prospect.
Um, when were you going to tell me about it? ;)
I just did :) :)
This is a nationwide phenomenon.
QuoteIt's not your imagination. Rent really is too high.
The cost of renting a home in the U.S. has risen to its least affordable levels ever, taking up a record proportion of income in most major cities, according to a study from property website Zillow.
"Rents are crazy right now," Dr. Svenja Gudell, chief economist at Zillow, said in a statement. "Unaffordable rents are making it hard for people to save for a down payment and retirement."
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/16/rents-rise-to-crazy-levels-zillow.html
That it is. Very few cities are escaping the wrath as FHA limits are out of whack, young people can't take on new mortgages and lenders are still not so willing to lend, home construction prices are out of whack and have raised the price of new homes, and many cities in this country have taken a turn for the better/worse depending on how you look at it as more people have realized they cannot and will not live 20-30-40 minutes outside of a city only to sit in traffic, become obese, and have fewer things to do around them, which leaves living in the city in much higher demand...with nowhere to move to within the city due to lack of construction, etc.
Jax is becoming expensive in some small parts, relative to itself. But here's what I'm dealing with (and I've been contemplating a move to be closer to subways, my friends, and the places I go out to at night...$600-800/mo on ride/cab services).
http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2015/10/09/the_median_rent_for_an_sf_twobedroom_hits_5000month.php
$3,620 is median 1 BR rent in the city now. And that is no exaggeration. 2 BR tops $5K.
In individual neighborhoods, it gets extreme. To live right downtown a 1 BR is a median of $4,270. In my neighborhood it's between $3,650 and $3,850. As evidence of this, the 1 BR next to mine (I live in a 2) just rented for $3,700. I live in a 5-floor walk-up apartment building with 16 units and no amenities.
Let's say the median 1 BR in Riverside-5 Points is ~$1200. My salary is not necessarily 3x that of a salary of someone living in 5 Points or wanting to live there. Not to mention everything else in my life is anywhere from 1.5-10x as expensive as what the equivalent would cost in 5 Points (I guess going back to the "men's cut" fiasco that everyone makes fun of me for...I found a guy who will cut my hair for $55, which is pretty much in line with what the apparent average is for a men's cut here...so that is down from where I was before).
Anyway, I digress. I've long ago given up on homeownership prospects. Wish I had some money to pick up some stuff in Atlanta or Miami or Denver. I do have some friends who got lucky with timing or are able to do this even now. Pretty jealous. My last friend who bought a place in SF had his French father assist him financially with the purchase of a $1.3M one bedroom loft in the mission. Here you're competing with cash buyers for this kind of stuff, so even if you can get a mortgage, doesn't guarantee you the property. And are we still going to go up, or will this potential bubble burst and how badly?
Same general storyline across the country nowadays at different scales. I would think Jax is still affordable for a smaller city compared to some really really in demand places like Austin, or even Salt Lake City these days.
I think the thing to worry about in a Jax is the fact that there is not much volatility or demand generation (if you are an investor). Great if you want to own a home for 10+ years to live in, though!
My friend bought a condo in Atlanta for ~$250K a few years back. Now worth at least $350K, maybe even closer to $400K. I think that's the level of "pop" Jax is still missing, which is a good thing for many many people trying to get in, but maybe not so entertaining for others view real estate more as an investment and bought something in Jax hoping for that very storyline. Are there any cases out there like that? Miami is even more extreme. Similar condo at Miami's trough would have cost $150K ($0.50 on dollar) and could be worth $450+K by now.
simms, have you watched this? http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/san-francisco-2-0
Thoughts?
I've got he answer: buy the cute little bungalow I just listed in Springfield. Own it for less than $900 per month (FHA financing with 3.5% down).
Anyone interested can PM me.
I'd post a picture but have no idea how to.
Have not seen. But I know the premise. It's a very good premise, though 2 thoughts:
1) The very people who are at most risk of being priced out are doing the most to price themselves out by fighting tooth and nail any and all new housing developments that are proposed for the city. Both on the luxe front (existing condo owners don't want their views or vistas changed or interrupted/blocked) and on the affordable front (don't even get me started on the this one).
For instance, in less than 2 weeks we are actually going to vote on a housing moratorium for a huge swath of the city, covering such high in demand transit-rich neighborhoods such as the Mission. In the midst of this tech gold rush. Because people there honestly believe the supply/demand equation does not apply to a global city like SF (if you build more it will provide relief) and there are some Latinos there who do feel they own the neighborhood a bit. That is the kind of crazy we are talking about.
2) San Francisco shouldn't need rent control or super tenant-friendly laws and a whole tenant's union and this that and the other because in reality there should be plenty of housing options for all, but since we are where we are now because nothing is every historically allowed to be built in the city and the city might be the strongest, economically, in the world or at least US right now, then it's safe to say THANK GOD we have laws forbidding landlords from doing a whole range of stuff (try evicting someone here...at minimum could be a 6-figure payout and only if you evict to house yourself and convert other units to condo), and rent control.
When people say the character of the city has changed, I get it. But so much is extreme hyperbole and exaggeration. Many people who move here from other cultures, say SE (me) or NE (others) or Australia or Europe or Asia or wherever end up adopting to the local culture. This city is so unique and has such a legacy culture so unique to it that it just won't change. The whole city still empties out at Burning Man. You can still lay in the many parks all day and watch the cityscape while smoking buds you bought in front of a cop who doesn't care, and murals decorate buildings everywhere. The city is progressive enough where housing is built to house artists specifically, teachers specifically, senior LGBT, etc. And by the way, it still takes a special kind of person to even want to move to SF. It's so unique that it isn't for everyone. So the risk that it will become generic like Dallas is literally 0%.
Living here has literally changed my life. I cringe every day at the fact that I still have $0 in my bank account and debt to boot with a job working for a prestigious PE firm/hedge fund (we have both models within our firm), while my friends in Jax are getting married, buying nice houses, having kids, etc. But I wouldn't have it any other way and deem it worth it to stay here for my own livelihood and for the certain types of connections I've made here that I wouldn't be able to make at all or as easily elsewhere. This in large part because SF is and will always be SF and all that that entails.
This isn't the city's first rodeo at a "gold rush"...apparently it happens here every 10-20 years and brings new people each time that leave their mark on the fabric/culture of the city. The Aussies helped found the place in 1849-1860 and burned the city down multiple times since they were hooligans. They are still around in large quantities today. I'd say awkward, single, ambitious, often gay men have been a part of just about every boom here from the time it all started and obviously things haven't changed. ;)
Quote from: simms3 on October 22, 2015, 04:36:03 PM
Living here has literally changed my life. I cringe every day at the fact that I still have $0 in my bank account and debt to boot with a job working for a prestigious PE firm/hedge fund (we have both models within our firm), while my friends in Jax are getting married, buying nice houses, having kids, etc. But I wouldn't have it any other way and deem it worth it to stay here for my own livelihood and for the certain types of connections I've made here that I wouldn't be able to make at all or as easily elsewhere. This in large part because SF is and will always be SF and all that that entails.
Hope it works out, but the longer you stay at a negative net worth the harder it will be to have anything later on. At what point do you expect to be able to build any personal wealth in SF? I like SF, but not nearly that much!
Simms, the 49ers Suck my man. Makes Jags fans feel good about themselves.
Quote from: Lunican on October 23, 2015, 01:31:54 PM
Quote from: simms3 on October 22, 2015, 04:36:03 PM
Living here has literally changed my life. I cringe every day at the fact that I still have $0 in my bank account and debt to boot with a job working for a prestigious PE firm/hedge fund (we have both models within our firm), while my friends in Jax are getting married, buying nice houses, having kids, etc. But I wouldn't have it any other way and deem it worth it to stay here for my own livelihood and for the certain types of connections I've made here that I wouldn't be able to make at all or as easily elsewhere. This in large part because SF is and will always be SF and all that that entails.
Hope it works out, but the longer you stay at a negative net worth the harder it will be to have anything later on. At what point do you expect to be able to build any personal wealth in SF? I like SF, but not nearly that much!
I like SF and a host of other cities too. However, I like cash in my pocket better. At the end of the day, any place I want to spend time in is only a flight or drive a way.
SF Curbed What $2800 Rents You in San Francisco (http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2015/10/22/what_2800month_rents_you_in_san_francisco.php#56296551f92ea10bde003ac3)
To put things in perspective. The very first option is at 7th and Mission, in a very rough part of SoMa. Newish 275 sf studios are renting for the same amount ($2,400-2,900) in the "nicer" part of SoMa on the south side of 280. No parking available at any of these options (but add $300-350/mo to find nearby secure parking...or risk your car being broken in as my friend's was on Saturday night, in Soma), and bonus points for including laundry in the building, a microwave, and/or a dishwasher, all considered "luxury" options here. Lol
All of this mostly for my own amusement as you guys gawk at $1500/mo for luxe (relative to what I'm used to) 2 bedrooms.
Quote from: simms3 on October 26, 2015, 03:36:10 PM
All of this mostly for my own amusement as you guys gawk at $1500/mo for luxe (relative to what I'm used to) 2 bedrooms.
Yep, I do gawk at that for rent. At least in Jax. My mortgage is less than that! Granted, not in a neighborhood as attractive as Riverside but it can be had here. I've had the cost of living discussion with friends in the larger cities countless times, especially in the New York area as I wanted to live there at one point. But I could never justify the idea of having to get a roommates to pay the rent because I know my skillset will not allow me the income to live comfortably on one income.
That's why I clarified that in the original post, because any time I talk about rent prices in Jax someone always says "Well, a studio in XYZ megalopolis cost 4k a month to rent" Yes, it's way more expensive in other large cities, but we're talking Jax here. It's interesting to see the rent starting to trickle up, but 1500 isn't outrageous by any means. Just a new high point for a spruced up quad apartment in Riverside.
But this does bring me to another discussion I've had about cost of living in other cities. Let's say the average apartment in Brooklyn cost..what..2500 a month? And let's say a job in Jax pays 60k a year, but pays 75k-80k up there. It seems to me that yes, certain jobs do pay up to 30% more in the larger cities, but it still doesn't offset the 100-200% cost of living increase over living here.
I like our cost of living, i'm willing to trade in the amenities of glam of the larger cities in exchange for down to earth home prices and rental rates. But I do see the beginnings of rent hikes coming in to Riverside. Like you said earlier, the incomes aren't going up here but home and rental prices are.
Data point: I moved to Riverside in 2011. Rent was $725 per month. Now, in 2015 (same place), rent was just upped to $1025 per month.
Recently had a conversation with a friend that reminded me of this thread. He recently moved from the bay area to Reno, Nevada, and cost of living was a major factor. Dude is a doctor who was completing his fellowship at Stanford, and he was just getting by in the bay area. His family loved where they lived, but when it came time to apply for other positions he mostly looked elsewhere.
He said that it's not a case where he was getting paid more to mitigate the higher cost of living; Stanford actually underpays doctors, as they don't have to pay well to compete for the best talent nationally. He lived with his family in Redwood City, which is really nice, but he and his wife and 2 young kids were renting a 2 bedroom, 3rd floor apartment with no elevator. It cost them $2200 a month, and when his lease ended last spring they were going to raise it to $2600, though doing no improvements. He said every cost was increasingly expensive; food, clothes for the kids, gas. He also didn't get the savings of a car free lifestyle; to get to work (and many other places) he had to both have a car - in his case an ancient Subaru he inherited from his grandparents - and transit passes for the family. These costs plus his student loans made things more limiting. Obviously, he's a doctor, he's doing a lot better than most, but the fact that even someone like him was getting priced out of the region is really eye opening.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 23, 2015, 05:32:00 PM
Quote from: Lunican on October 23, 2015, 01:31:54 PM
Quote from: simms3 on October 22, 2015, 04:36:03 PM
Living here has literally changed my life. I cringe every day at the fact that I still have $0 in my bank account and debt to boot with a job working for a prestigious PE firm/hedge fund (we have both models within our firm), while my friends in Jax are getting married, buying nice houses, having kids, etc. But I wouldn't have it any other way and deem it worth it to stay here for my own livelihood and for the certain types of connections I've made here that I wouldn't be able to make at all or as easily elsewhere. This in large part because SF is and will always be SF and all that that entails.
Hope it works out, but the longer you stay at a negative net worth the harder it will be to have anything later on. At what point do you expect to be able to build any personal wealth in SF? I like SF, but not nearly that much!
I like SF and a host of other cities too. However, I like cash in my pocket better. At the end of the day, any place I want to spend time in is only a flight or drive a way.
Somehow I missed this thread until it got bumped. Riverside has gone up dramatically - my rent has personally gone up 70% since I've lived here (thankfully the rental days are numbered). But SF is on another planet - in my previous gig I was out there a couple times for work and just in talking to people I got a feel for how expensive the city is.
The thing that throws me is that if you compare SF to NY, they are both crazy expensive in the core of the city, but NY seems to ease more as you get out into Westchester, Nassau, and Jersey (neighborhood dependent of course). That doesn't seem to be the case in SF, at least not south of the city.
^The costs of everything shocked me when we visited last year. It made me understand the "Google bus" protests. Residents in poorer areas in San Francisco and Oakland saw the buses as an incentive for well-off tech workers to move into low income areas while still working out in Silicon Valley. When they moved in it drove up the rents and generally gentrified the neighborhoods, and they didn't have to deal with the traffic or mass transit themselves. I don't agree with the protesters, but I get it.
It's been almost nine years since my last time in SF. Will finally visit again some time this year. Anyway, one of our business partners lives in the heart of the city and I was shocked to hear that his 2/2 townhome would command around $6k in rent. If he hadn't bought it 20 years ago he wouldn't be able to afford living in the city anymore.
In Riverside, rents are probably too high. But there has not been much new built there in the last 10 years. Very limited inventory.
I listed a multi family (4 unit) near Kickbacks which brought multiple cash asking price offer's in the first week. The Seller had owned for 13 years, paid $88,000. And sold for the $335,000 range. The best units brought as much as $1050 in rent. It had no yard to speak of and on street parking.
Generally, rents are up just about everywhere by quite a bit. With hardly any new construction for the last few years due to the recession and improvements in the economy now leading to increased household formation, along with stricter underwriting standards for mortgages, you have a near perfect storm for rising rents due to the increased demand to supply ratio.
By the way, I have observed rents for houses along Hendricks Ave., from San Marco to Lakewood, rise some 25 to 40% over the last three years or so. This area is also built out and many rental houses have come off the market now that sellers can get close to, or better than, pre-recession prices. Current selling prices are too high to allow decent rental ROI's resulting in rentals converting to owner-occupied homes, further decreasing supply while demand rises. This has been especially true over the last 18 months or so. [Check out Zillow - Jacksonville - House Rentals ( http://www.zillow.com/jacksonville-fl/rent-houses/ (http://www.metrojacksonville.com//www.zillow.com/jacksonville-fl/rent-houses/) ) to monitor these trends.]
The boom in medicine-related jobs in the urban core (Baptist, St. Vincent's, UF Shands/Health, countless doctors offices & now MD Anderson) is also doing a lot to drive the demand for rentals (and sales) in Riverside/San Marco. I don't see that slowing down anytime soon given the demographic trends for baby boomers :).
Given the successes in Brooklyn, where rents are among the highest in the urban core, along with the above observations, I would think the time is close for the condos/apartments/Publix complex to become viable. The only hesitation might be competing with Healthy Town/The District's inventory. Will be interesting to see the rate of absorption.