Springfield vs. Savannah: Can you tell the difference?
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Savannah's Victorian District and Thomas Square Streetcar Districts have a lot in common with Jacksonville's Springfield Historic District. Can you tell the difference between Springfield and Savannah?
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/811
used to live katty cornered from the Kroger. Green growth community,was bunch of delapidated buildings. Bought up by a development company renovated.
The Kroger pic was the only one I knew for sure was Savannah. I honestly thought Ennis was going to throw a curveball and show only Springfield pics.
Great article too. Goes to show that Jacksonville's historic districts are up to par or superior to many other more recognized districts around the country.
I think stating that jax's historic district is up to par with Savannahs, is pressing the envelope just a bit.
Actually Civil, if you read the article you will see its the Victorian District of Savannah, not downtown. Springfield shares many of the same challenges as the outer Victorian District, and could probably stand to learn some of their lessons, and avoid some of their failures.
That may be true, that area is not as well developed, as the historic district. That area is more comparable with Spingfiield, particualrly after dar. But many of the photos in the article are from the downtown historic district north of liberty street or between gwinnett and liberty.
Every photograph comparing the two (the numbered images) are from the actual districts (Victorian, Thomas, Springfield) themselves. Every Savannah image in this section was taken within these district's respective borders
The photographs outside of the number ones are intended to give viewers a visual idea of how these districts connect with their downtown districts. In this section there are images of Savannah that were taken north of Forsyth Park that are included. By the same token, there's an image of Laura Street that is officially outside of Springfield's borders. Nevertheless, the purpose of the non-numbered images are to visually display how one neighborhood is physically integrated with its downtown core (with pedestrian signage, bike lanes, through streets, sidewalks with buildings fronting them, etc.) and the other isn't.
You can definitely tell the difference. The houses in Savannah's Victorian District are mostly all painted and have ironed fences. The majority of the victorian houses in Springfield do not have the ironed fences, and most are not painted as good or as bright, and are not as well kept; and.......there seem to be more houses in Savannah's historic district that are renovated whereas Springfield still has a large number of houses sitting and not yet renovated. Also, the streets in Savannah in the Victorian District seem much more cleaner, tapered, and better kept than Springfield's streets; so if you look closely, you can definitely tell the difference.
Heights Unknown
Ok, Heights. Email me (downtownparks@gmail.com) from top to bottom which is which. I know several are obvious (like the Krogers) but I bet you will find your self quite surprised at which ones are which.
The other big difference is that the outlying area such as the victorian district is anchored by the actual historic district. Whereas Springfield is still somewhat isolated. I lived just at the corner of Price and Gwinnett just on the edge of the historic district. I have to agree with a previous poster that the streets in the Victory area are much wider, better landscaped and much better maintained. Was looking at buying a condo on Victory, just opposite the Sand Gnats baseball park, the area immediately behind it turned into a slum for several blocks before it started to pick back up as you approached gwinnett
QuoteThe other big difference is that the outlying area such as the victorian district is anchored by the actual historic district. Whereas Springfield is still somewhat isolated.
This is probably the largest difference. Jacksonville needs to find a way to reconnect Downtown and Springfield with building density between the Springfield Parks System and Union Street.
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At one time, Springfield and Downtown met at Hogans Creek.
Good article and I agree that perhaps the largest difference is that Springfield is disconnected from Downtown. In fact, there is actually very little "historic" left in between Springfield and Downtown.
Out of curiousity, were any of the pictures from Savanah of new houses or were they all historic ones? I noticed that at least three of the houses pictured from Springfield were new and wondered if they were building infill in Savanah the same way.
"Good article and I agree that perhaps the largest difference is that Springfield is disconnected from Downtown. In fact, there is actually very little "historic" left in between Springfield and Downtown.
Out of curiousity, were any of the pictures from Savanah of new houses or were they all historic ones? I noticed that at least three of the houses pictured from Springfield were new and wondered if they were building infill in Savanah the same way."
There is some that I saw Strider but mostly on the edges, IN the area I lived, there were some very run down building demolished and some newer row housing being constructed to fit into the area. They were very nice and very pricey, a little too much for the area in my mind. But that was the exception to the rule. Almost all of the original housing from the victory disctrict to the water front is intact. Also keep in mind either by accident or plan, Savannah tore down very little of the cotton factor are along river street, so you have a very charming front facing the river. They made one mistake and demolished a pocket park for the redevelopment of the city market. They have since realized the mistake, and are building an underground garage on the site and reestablishing the park on top, will be interesting to see how that holds up.
A few candid and cleverly orchestrated photographs can make any two cities look similar. What you really need to compare is the vitality and atmosphere of the both areas. I was born and raised in Jacksonville, and having lived in Savannah and a couple of other historic cities for roughly 15+ years before returning to back Jacksonville, I think I can give an honest opinion to this subject. There is no comparison between the two cities, Savannah by far, has a huge edge over Springfield. Springfield has been a waste land for as long as I can remember. Decade after decade promises are made about revitalization projects that will take root and improve the area, but decade after decade it always looks the same and has the same atmosphere. It is a shame, Springfield has a some beautiful architecture and a ton of potential, but until the city inhabitants return to living and working in the downtown area in great numbers, Springfield doesn’t have a chance. People are not going to live in Springfield and drive to work in one of the many suburban office parks that have destroyed downtown Jacksonville; not to mention no local shopping, no safe place to send your child to school, or no safe place for your child to play. I wish it were different, but it isn't.
If you truely want to compare a Jacksonville area to Savannah, try Riverside, Avondale or San Marco; but please, not Springfield.
Native, your take isn't completly off the mark, but I think the word "wasteland" is vastly overstated. Springfield is far from utopia, but I have to tell you as a 5 year resident of Springfield, the most frustrating aspect of the neighborhood to me is how Native Jaxons are so quick to dish on it, and tell everyone how bad it is.
I just wish people from here weren't so willing to disregard a neighborhood that so many of them have roots in. Its kinda sad. This is a fun vibrant neighborhood that admittedly has some hurdles in front of it, but wasteland is just about as far from the truth as you can get.
Also, Savannah has several historic districts. This comparison takes a look at two that are south of the well known Downtown Historic District. The Thomas Square Streetcar District is very similar to the feel and atmosphere of today's Springfield. The largest difference is, its connected pretty well to the two historic district to the north. Springfield's ties with Downtown Jax have been severed and need to be re-established.
I think some of you guys are missing the point.
Ennis, correct me if I'm wrong (since you wrote it), but the point of this is not to show that Savannah and Springfield are hard to tell apart per se. What I got out of this is that Springfield has many of the ingredients of a successful historic district, like Springfield. However there are things that Savannah has and takes advantage of that Jacksonville does not, such as the connectivity thing with the surrounding neighborhoods.
And also, I think the wasteland comment might have been true a while ago, but take a trip down there and other than Main St, most of the streets are quite plesant.
Yes, Steve you got the point. Architecture and history aside, one is integrated with its downtown core and the other isn't. If we can reconnect the two, both benefit.