Elena Flats: A Look Inside Before Restoration Begins
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4402548690_5GDtMvd-L.jpg)
A look inside the remains of a century old downtown Jacksonville rooming house before restoration begins: The Elena Flats Building
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-oct-elena-flats-a-look-inside-before-restoration-begins
Wow. I was interested in the apartments that Ron Chamblin eventually bought, so I toured the building in 2010 and this is about what it looked like. These buildings have some great promise, but it will really take some vision and a lot of hard work to turn them around. I'm glad that a few great buildings are being saved from the wrecking ball.
QuoteWhen complete, the former 22-room rooming house will feature four, high-end, 1,750 square-foot apartment units, each with its own private porch.
Just what downtown needs, more luxury housing aka out of the price range of the people who create a vibrant city. White collar Range Rover owners who work in the Edge City & more trust fund hipsters is what Downtown Jacksonville needs..
Is this trickle-down place making?
Create space for the wealthy and the middle class will eventually want to come downtown??
When I was stationed at NAS I was a parishioner of Immaculate Conception, I loved that parish and miss the people there! I would always look at the building across the street and think it's a shame that the parish or a private firm does not purchase the building and make use of it. I thought if they had fixed it up nice I wouldn't mind living across a street from where I go to church.
Any idea as to how much they are planning to charge for rent?
Anyhow, it's so good to hear that the older buildings in that area of the city are getting some care. A friend of mine told me that they are beginning plans to renovate Immaculate Conception as well, so it sounds like good news all around on that street.
I truly don't mean to be negative, but who the hell is going to want to live here when all this hard work is done? I am sorry there is just nothing attractive around there. With soup kitchens everywhere the residents will be asked for money every time they leave their house, I can say this b/c i work downtown and get asked for money almost daily on my walks. I just see this project as to dis-connected from anything. I mean you are literally plopping in 4 luxury apartments in the middle of nothing, i just cant see demand to high here.
It's two blocks from the Elbow, two blocks from the library and Hemming, 4 blocks from the river, etc. It's essentially just as accessible as living at 11 East or the Parks at the Cathedral. It's just a different housing product being offered.
I kind of agree that "luxury" might not be the best sell for this spot but I guess you need to charge those types of rents to make any money back on the restore. If I wasn't a broke college student I'd look into it! Hope it all goes well.
Quote from: stephendare on October 05, 2015, 03:45:09 PMI think that the downtown needs a variety of places to live. Thats coming from someone who is completely against the negative side of gentrification.
Don't get me wrong, I love that someone is restoring this building. Most assuredly a positive thing. I have often looked at the structure myself with an eye seeing what it could be.
But saving this building by gutting it, slapping a wrap-around porch onto it, branding it as luxury and selling some yuppies the fantasy that they live on Charleston's Rainbow Row or in Downtown Savannah is not the answer to our woes.
What about the Supervisor of Elections parking lot bordering the property to the West? How luxurious, I wonder if the tenants will get a special permit to park there??
Who cares? Really, why do you care? At the end of the day someone saved this place and is going to renovate it into a usable structure. They can do whatever they want with it. It's their money. I would imagine the route they are taking is probably what they feel is the most feasible way to save the structure and still have a chance at getting a return on their investment. If the market can't support it they'll find out the hard way, but that's the risk they are taking with their money. Worst case for the city the structure is restored. Best case, this spurs redevelopment/restoration of the other two residential structures left on that block. Where's the problem?
Quote from: lastdaysoffla on October 05, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
Quote from: stephendare on October 05, 2015, 03:45:09 PMI think that the downtown needs a variety of places to live. Thats coming from someone who is completely against the negative side of gentrification.
Don't get me wrong, I love that someone is restoring this building. Most assuredly a positive thing. I have often looked at the structure myself with an eye seeing what it could be.
But saving this building by gutting it, slapping a wrap-around porch onto it, branding it as luxury and selling some yuppies the fantasy that they live on Charleston's Rainbow Row or in Downtown Savannah is not the answer to our woes.
What about the Supervisor of Elections parking lot bordering the property to the West? How luxurious, I wonder if the tenants will get a special permit to park there??
To solve our woes, we need all the infill and restoration at multiple price points. Looking at the images of the structure in its current state, I seriously doubt it could be restored for affordable housing without massive public incentives or the investor burning his money. That's just the reality of market rate development.
Hopefully, if Vestor gets millions in tax credits, the proposed 120-unit Lofts of LaVilla can be built for those who want to live downtown but can't afford or need 1,750 square feet of living space.
QuoteIn other business, the DIA also approved a $270,000 loan from the Downtown Economic Development Fund to Vestcor Inc.
The company proposes to build "Lofts at LaVilla," a $22 million, 120-unit affordable housing development at Lee and Water streets near the Jacksonville Branch of the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta and the Prime Osborn Convention Center.
Vestcor plans to build affordable apartments that would be leased by Downtown workers and others whose annual salary is 80 percent or less of the state median income.
That calculates to about $49,000 or less for a family of four to qualify for the housing.
The loan, combined with another $270,000 from the Jacksonville Housing Finance Authority, represents the minimum required local government support for the project. That will allow Vestcor to apply for federal funds through the Florida Housing Finance Corp.'s Low Income Housing Tax Credit Program.
The loan approved by the authority has a 20-year term at 0 percent interest and no installment payments required.
If Vestcor ultimately does not receive the tax credit for the project, the city will not be liable for the loan.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=25365.0
Quote from: lastdaysoffla on October 05, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
Quote from: stephendare on October 05, 2015, 03:45:09 PMI think that the downtown needs a variety of places to live. Thats coming from someone who is completely against the negative side of gentrification.
Don't get me wrong, I love that someone is restoring this building. Most assuredly a positive thing. I have often looked at the structure myself with an eye seeing what it could be.
But saving this building by gutting it, slapping a wrap-around porch onto it, branding it as luxury and selling some yuppies the fantasy that they live on Charleston's Rainbow Row or in Downtown Savannah is not the answer to our woes.
If there is a stock of still habitable buildings then yes, cheap loft style apartments could be offered. Unfortunately, I don't think there is much of that. Most empty DT buildings will probably require a considerate investment to bring them back to habitable standard if you want to keep the existing structure.
Problem is that if you then offer low rent apartments you will never recoup your initial investment.
At least the Elena Flats were sold for what I find to be a realistic price - once the building is past a certain state, that should be the land value minus the demolition and disposal costs unless the building has some very special features and / or is a landmark. Otherwise, restoring the existing structure would be considerably more expensive than building new.
Looking at some other structures in DT, I find the asking price to be too high already - look at e.g. the Jones Bros Furniture Building on 520 Hogan St. I think it's totally cool and would make for great retail + apartments but @ $900k it just seems to pricey as it will probably need a lot of work and $$$ to bring it back.
Glad to see this place will be spared, & get a better life. Sadly, the Phelps building next door wasn't so lucky.
Anyway, here's a thought: Build a deck on the roof for the residents. Cant think of a better place to fire up the grill & mingle with the neighbors over a few beers, steaks, chops, and/or chicken - except perhaps a rooftop deck on the old Barnett Bank building if those plans ever come to fruition.
Godspeed to the owner/investor for taking on such a challenging project. The units are quite large, the other similar projects around town would probably do 6 or 7 units within that square footage. i hope it is a total success and the Church sees what it couldn't before.
Time will tell. The developer could run out of money before the restoration is complete. I wouldn't consider living downtown, and I wonder if there's sufficient demand.
Did the developer get tax incentives and grants?
The demand for downtown housing greatly outpaces housing supply. The available options stay virtually full. The real question is if the demand is there for the rents that will be necessary to cover the costs of a major project like this. It's risky, but kudos to these guys to giving it a shot.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 06, 2015, 03:21:30 PM
The demand for downtown housing greatly outpaces housing supply. The available options stay virtually full. The real question is if the demand is there for the rents that will be necessary to cover the costs of a major project like this. It's risky, but kudos to these guys to giving it a shot.
Definitely agree. And if this works out, it might motivate others to do the same. Even if this is a smaller project, if it proves that investing in downtown without major subsidies provides a good return of investment then this would be a good thing.
Quote from: Gunnar on October 06, 2015, 04:54:25 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 06, 2015, 03:21:30 PM
The demand for downtown housing greatly outpaces housing supply. The available options stay virtually full.
News to me. Where did you get that information, please?
^This has been known for a while. No one is struggling to fill up housing in downtown, when it comes online.
Known how?
Reports with occupancy rates are released every so often.
Can you link to the latest one, please? Thanks!
Here's a link:
http://downtownjacksonville.org/Libraries/PDF_Libraries/Technical_Supplement_WEB.sflb.ashx
Residential info is displayed on pages 9-12.
Thank you!
Quote from: lastdaysoffla on October 05, 2015, 01:41:20 PM
QuoteWhen complete, the former 22-room rooming house will feature four, high-end, 1,750 square-foot apartment units, each with its own private porch.
Just what downtown needs, more luxury housing aka out of the price range of the people who create a vibrant city. White collar Range Rover owners who work in the Edge City & more trust fund hipsters is what Downtown Jacksonville needs..
Is this trickle-down place making?
Create space for the wealthy and the middle class will eventually want to come downtown??
Goodness gracious! Be supportive of someone restoring an old treasure downtown for crying out loud. Why the hell do you care if some people that make a decent living move downtown? The new owners of this building are obviously making a pretty decent living otherwise they wouldn't have been able to get the place and take on this project; are they not allowed to live downtown either? Trust me the owners of the local establishments in the Elbow District and Hemming Park area won't mind one bit. If you want affordable apartments go down the street to the Carling, there are apartments available there for less than $800 a month. If you think that's not affordable, move to Starke. Downtown needs a variety of apartment options.
Quote from: gerschea@gmail.com on October 05, 2015, 02:51:09 PM
I truly don't mean to be negative, but who the hell is going to want to live here when all this hard work is done? I am sorry there is just nothing attractive around there. With soup kitchens everywhere the residents will be asked for money every time they leave their house, I can say this b/c i work downtown and get asked for money almost daily on my walks. I just see this project as to dis-connected from anything. I mean you are literally plopping in 4 luxury apartments in the middle of nothing, i just cant see demand to high here.
You get asked for money by panhandlers in any downtown in the world, even the most vibrant of downtowns. I would say I was approached by panhandlers and obvious drug addicts more in San Francisco and Seattle more than any other city and those are considered model cities. In the middle of nothing? The Cathedral District is a residential community wedged between downtown, the Elbow District/River, and the Stadiums. You can walk to all three of those areas. Downtown is seeing slow progress, if I was an investor with lots of cash I would fix up some of the old homes in that community or infill on the vacant lots. The one thing they really need to do is relocate the Transition Center at the end of Church for two reasons . . . 1) No one wants to live next to a "transition center" (but Elena Flats is far enough down the street that it doesn't feel sketchy) and this is potentially a great residential area, and 2) The property it sits on is right on Hogan's Creek and could potentially be an absolutely beautiful spot for a creekside park (emerald necklace!!!) and mixed use. It is one building I am in favor of demolishing (and the jail down the street). What would be great is if they could find a way to incorporate the police station, jail and transition center in one tower. Police station on the first few floors, then transition center, then jail upper floors and locate it over by the courthouse where it isn't so residential. Piece of cake right? Just need tens of millions of dollars from the city and we are good to go!
I'm glad to see these new plans for this building and I understand the new owners would like to recoup money for the restoration, but I can't be the only one to think it would have made for a great urban hostel. Best of luck for the renovation, though.
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on October 06, 2015, 10:37:27 PM
I'm glad to see these new plans for this building and I understand the new owners would like to recoup money for the restoration, but I can't be the only one to think it would have made for a great urban hostel. Best of luck for the renovation, though.
It would have in terms of location and such, but Hostels are for the economy minded, so given the investment required, it may not have been feasible.
I checked some realty listings today.
Prices for flats/condos/townhouses in downtown Jacksonville seem extremely high to me.
Is this really a considered a prime residential neighborhood? :-\
I think the prices are a little higher than they should be but there is indeed a lot of demand and the market just hasn't caught up on supply. There are a lot of millennials that want to live downtown but the prices are pretty inhibitive for that demographic.
I can't imagine anyone that age in Jacksonville having the income to purchase property at the prices I'm seeing.
^Most rent. Many also purchase in adjacent nearby neighborhoods like Riverside/Avondale, Springfield and San Marco.
Yes, a lot more people rent than buy. Of course there are only a few thousand residents of all the Downtown areas, again because of lack of housing supply, rather than lack of demand.
The woodwork is especially interesting - the stairs and railings are impressive.
Urban living is also attractive for baby boomers like me and we are also more likely to own than millennials. 12 years living in the cathedral district near Elena Flats for me and still loving it.
QuoteMeeks calls $1M Elena Flats restoration project 'civic philanthropy"
By Max Marbut, Staff Writer
In about 14 months, there will be four more market-rate units available in the Downtown apartment market.
But it will be much longer — likely years — before the project shows a profit for the developers.
Jack Meeks and his wife, JoAnn Tredennick, purchased the Elena Flats building at 122 E. Duval St. and have begun the historic restoration of the site.
While the couple paid just the lot value to secure the property — $45,000 — they plan to invest more than $1 million to restore the interior and exterior and install new plumbing, electrical service and HVAC.
Meeks, a member of the Downtown Investment Authority board of directors, said other than a federal historic preservation grant, they will not seek any financial or tax incentives for the project.
"This is going to cost us more than it's worth, but there's not enough city money to do all the Downtown projects that need to be done," Meeks said. "It will take some civic philanthropy."
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546391
I wish them the best of luck. Perhaps this is how the city will start to get the ball rolling . . . . have members of its staff detach from the city and actually take things into their own hands. Bravo!
Quote from: CCMjax on October 27, 2015, 08:25:03 AM
I wish them the best of luck. Perhaps this is how the city will start to get the ball rolling . . . . have members of its staff detach from the city and actually take things into their own hands. Bravo!
[sarcasm] Maybe some of the fat cats at JEA and the Pension Funds can pitch in and help. [/sarcasm]
If not city officials, I hope some affluent members of Jax can step in and take on some projects that might take a few more years to make their money back. John Gorrie was a huge example of this, and Elena Flats is still pretty significant. I think Cowford Chophouse is a great project even if the restaurant gets shuttered in a few years. The bostwick building is beautiful and worth saving. We can save the city one building at a time.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 27, 2015, 09:57:55 AM
Quote from: CCMjax on October 27, 2015, 08:25:03 AM
I wish them the best of luck. Perhaps this is how the city will start to get the ball rolling . . . . have members of its staff detach from the city and actually take things into their own hands. Bravo!
[sarcasm] Maybe some of the fat cats at JEA and the Pension Funds can pitch in and help. [/sarcasm]
If not city officials, I hope some affluent members of Jax can step in and take on some projects that might take a few more years to make their money back. John Gorrie was a huge example of this, and Elena Flats is still pretty significant. I think Cowford Chophouse is a great project even if the restaurant gets shuttered in a few years. The bostwick building is beautiful and worth saving. We can save the city one building at a time.
This gets a like. :)