It has only been a couple of months since I have been back in Springfield pretty much full time, and over the past 3 months especially, the nighttime reality has appallingly worsened.
With the closing of the Main Street Bakery permanently, the lack of people on the street for a stretch of 12 blocks and the inadequate lighting has bred what it always does. Crime.
Since shortly before the shooting, we have been taking tours of main street every two hours from 10pm till 3 am and what we found has been alarming to say the least.
The crime was pretty much beaten off of Main Street a few years back.
Obviously it never completely left the neighborhood, and most of what remained was regrouped over on 8th street, albeit drastically reduced.
Aside from the troubling nodes of activity on the night that Boston Tom was brutally shot in the door way of Shanty town, last night the streets were crawling with activity and totally unfamiliar people clearly up to mischief.
In particular, the corners of 7th and Main were boiling with activity and commerce until 3 am last night.
On the East side of the street, centered around the apartments above the pawn shop, there were at least 15 people engaged in money transfers, calling up to the windows, making trades at the access door on 7th street and at least one blowjob in the alley behind the building.
Also the corners of Hubbard and 8th, always busy were especially raucous last night, and we observed active commerce of some kind (I assumed it to be drugs) on Main at the corners of 7th, 5th and 3rd until we stopped at 3.
At present, Main is unsupervised and untravelled by good people at night. With no action at all, this will get completely out of hand.
There needs to be night time activity or beefed up community and police patrols or this will quickly deteriorate.
What type of night time activity would you suggest?
Quote from: stephendare on June 19, 2008, 10:59:09 AM
It has only been a couple of months since I have been back in Springfield pretty much full time, and over the past 3 months especially, the nighttime reality has appallingly worsened.
With the closing of the Main Street Bakery permanently, the lack of people on the street for a stretch of 12 blocks and the inadequate lighting has bred what it always does. Crime.
Since shortly before the shooting, we have been taking tours of main street every two hours from 10pm till 3 am and what we found has been alarming to say the least.
The crime was pretty much beaten off of Main Street a few years back.
Obviously it never completely left the neighborhood, and most of what remained was regrouped over on 8th street, albeit drastically reduced.
Aside from the troubling nodes of activity on the night that Boston Tom was brutally shot in the door way of Shanty town, last night the streets were crawling with activity and totally unfamiliar people clearly up to mischief.
In particular, the corners of 7th and Main were boiling with activity and commerce until 3 am last night.
On the East side of the street, centered around the apartments above the pawn shop, there were at least 15 people engaged in money transfers, calling up to the windows, making trades at the access door on 7th street and at least one blowjob in the alley behind the building.
Also the corners of Hubbard and 8th, always busy were especially raucous last night, and we observed active commerce of some kind (I assumed it to be drugs) on Main at the corners of 7th, 5th and 3rd until we stopped at 3.
At present, Main is unsupervised and untravelled by good people at night. With no action at all, this will get completely out of hand.
There needs to be night time activity or beefed up community and police patrols or this will quickly deteriorate.
Could this be a possible backlash of Amendment One? In any event, Rutherford needs to beef up the police presence here a bit more. I live in San Marco, and every time I come home via Phillips highway, the drive is nothing short of eventful. The adults only Mt. vernon motort lodge is downright creepy and hookers pretty much run rampant.
We've been saying the same thing for quite a while now. For about 2 weeks we had incredible police presence on West 8th street then it shriveled up. We have constant activity that is pushing off into the residential areas, lots of hookers, drug dealers and last night vandals breaking out car windows.
The ultimate solution is to keep renovating properties and get rid of the element which is doing this sort of thing. Eventually, they will have nowhere to live and will haunt some other neighborhood.
Also, perhaps Stephen could open another restaurant on Main Street. Whatever happened to this?
Stephen how is your space along Main coming along? Wasn't it supposed to be open by now?
QuoteAh, the ever delightful Sebastian Horsley, recently banned from entering the United States on account of his rather irreverent book, The Dandy in the Underworld.
We are having a reading of this book at Boomtown, June 13th, along with a showing of Irish, English and Italian Dandy Fashion from the late 1800s.
QuoteBoomtown's space on Main Street has been very slowly coming along. The slowness is due entirely to the electricity of the building.
The building had not been energized in several years which meant naturally that it had to be inspected. It passed inspection. Two months went by and then JEA informed us that the electrical metering service would have to be relocated outside for easy access to JEA employees.
This will take about a week.
As soon as we have electric throughout the building, we will be featuring the smaller performances of our programming, and we are under a little pressure to be fully functional as our larger performances are beginning to feel real pain, both through having no space, and in two cases of having entirely the wrong spaces in which to perform.
We will not open as a restaurant for several months. Nor will we be open except for performances and special events which will be announced mostly through invitation. And I have not decided that that it will definitely open as a full restaurant in any case.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,2331.0.html
where is this space anyway? what address? I ask because hopefully it is near where all this criminal activity has popped up. and boomtown could keep the area well-lit and help drive out most of this criminal activity like before...
QuoteWhen we first opened, there were more than 70 of the homeless and bad guys living behind the shops and under the houses. All those same opportunities are still there, more so actually since the City Center Ministry cleared out, leaving all that untended space.
QuoteWe need to get stuff open at night and bring some decent people back onto the street at night. It took me and John, (and Lisa Neary and Diallo and Suzanne Pickette and Morrison Peirce and Lee Harvey) almost 3 years and a whole lot of unpleasantness to fix it the first time.
Its just north of the 7th & Main intersection. A building with night time activity all lit up at night would be a huge improvement over what the location looks like today.
Some had claimed a few months ago that Amsouth was going to go in on the SE corner of 7th & Main. Does anyone have an update on the status of that project?
wow...a main street bank right there would be a tremendous boost to the "commercial image" of the whole area IMO. would be Regions now though (with AmSouth having been taken over by them).
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2008, 01:33:03 PM
Its just north of the 7th & Main intersection.
lake, is it on the east side or west side of main?
Which building exactly are we talking about?
Also, what work have you done thus far, Stephen, and when and what do you plan to open?
Finally, who is the landlord?
Quote from: Driven1 on June 19, 2008, 02:13:08 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2008, 01:33:03 PM
Its just north of the 7th & Main intersection.
lake, is it on the east side or west side of main?
East side of Main. I believe its the little red brick building, just south of the old Surfside Furniture Building. You can see it here:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=jacksonville&ie=UTF8&ll=30.345473,-81.653609&spn=0.001319,0.003152&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=30.344908,-81.654044&panoid=A-IL-HdngKFh9LDQhlMa9w&cbp=1,63.0660503690234,,0,-7.915122017060416
is it currently under lease? that building is looking rough and thoroughly abandoned.
man...i love that google streetview thing...anyone know how they do that???
I have your number? I dont think so.
I am just curious about your plans. I think this clearly fits within the context of this thread.
I just googled "Hionides" and "jacksonville" and found the folio weekly article (that mentions a fellow from MJ.com) and i found an old metjax.com thread where RG and Stephendare (among many others) were going off on Hionides...
http://www.metjax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5912
If you ask me, Hionides needs to be contacted and told to put some lighting on his properties along Main St to decrease the criminal element in the area. Does anyone know how to get in touch with him? A phone number or email?
QuoteThe thread is about the re emergence of crime on main street.
Even if we started major work in earnest we would not open for another 9 months when the parking becomes available, in that time the neighborhood could slip backwards quite a ways.
Is it possible to put art work or something in the windows and light the exterior of the building at night in the meantime? This could, along with other building owners doing the same, help resolve the situation described in this thread that has been taking place at 7th & Main.
people need to contact him and tell him to light that building. boomtown shouldn't have to and JEA should not have to pay for it (nor the city). this is DEFINITELY in the realm of the landlord's expenses...i should know...i have had to light my bldgs better before for my tenants.
btw...is this building currently zoned strictly commercial/retail as COJ property pages say???
I was told that was not true, that to get rid of the criminal activity we had to have bsuinesses.... ;)
Quote from: stephendare on June 19, 2008, 03:06:14 PM
trust me, no one will open a cool restaurant if every time they drive by the prospective property there are drug dealers hanging out on the corner.
i know! trust, me...we are 100% in agreement here. and we both agree (was looking at your post over on the Shantytown shooting thread) that lighting is KEY to running out these vandals. lighting and business. but business ain't moving in until these areas are well-lit. which brings us back to WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR LIGHTING THESE AREAS. I personally think (because i have been the landlord and am a responsible one) that it falls squarely on the shoulders of the landlord - in this case - and he has a lot of other properties - Chris Hionides. The problem is how to contact him.
Agreed. So what do you do focus on criminal activity or focus on bringing in the bizs? It is apparent Springfield is not set up to do both, in fact it is very apparent some would not even want to admit there is crime here, as if we are in some bubble. Who is going to open a shop up on Main St with construction (OK temporary), vagrants and hookers hanging out on the corners, and recently three armed robberies (and that is just three I know of)???? The criminal activity, no matter how "small" some think it is must be addressed, otherwise we will get more of the same, Popeye's, McDonalds, Crystals, and Pawn Shops... would a place like Chew open up on Main St? How about if the road was done and there was ample parking?
all i would say is start with the private landowners. the private sector. if JEA truly is not providing electricity to your building, then I'm pretty sure that is highly illegal and you should put some major pressure on your landlord to get that taken care of.
Quote from: stephendare on June 19, 2008, 02:55:00 PM
Quote from: RiversideGator on June 19, 2008, 02:53:25 PM
I have your number? I dont think so.
I am just curious about your plans. I think this clearly fits within the context of this thread.
It may or may not River. How would you like your address and landlord posted here?
But that isnt your address. It is the potential address for a future restaurant. And, if I was really planning a restaurant, I would love to have its address known by the public.
Quote
If the situation doesnt improve on main we may decide to open a restaurant or third space or we may decide to open it as an office, we don't know yet.
We might even decide that the expense and time isnt worth it.
I am confused. Do you have a lease with Hionides and, if so, are you paying rent? Or are you just speculating about a possible future lease on the property? It doesnt seem to make much sense to pay Hionides, a man who you previously vilified (as did I) for bringing down Main Street, if you dont intend to ever occupy the space.
Quote
The thread is about the re emergence of crime on main street.
Even if we started major work in earnest we would not open for another 9 months when the parking becomes available, in that time the neighborhood could slip backwards quite a ways.
Crime on Main will lessen with more legitimate business activity and eyes on the street. This is why I naturally thought of your impending project.
BTW, anyone know when the Main Street road project is slated to be completed?
Its clearly hopeless. I think the only real solution is for all Springfielders to kill themselves.
Quote from: downtownparks on June 19, 2008, 03:26:19 PM
Its clearly hopeless. I think the only real solution is for all Springfielders to kill themselves.
hahaha. :D
River, I believe it is next fall (a little over a year from now)
The construction is a killer, no doubt. Its a crappy, but nessecary step. The facilities under Main St cant support any commercial growth until they are replaced and upgraded.
I mean, if you were going to cook out of a house and bring your food to a Main St restaurant, or just live in the restaurant to keep your overhead down, you might be able to make it work, but otherwise, we are just going to have to let them finish the work.
Quote from: RiversideGator on June 19, 2008, 03:27:04 PM
Quote from: downtownparks on June 19, 2008, 03:26:19 PM
Its clearly hopeless. I think the only real solution is for all Springfielders to kill themselves.
hahaha. :D
Absolutely! In fact I'll bring this brilliant option up tonight at the SPAR meeting and also to Shadco....Good response! hahaha!!! ;)
not appropriate, but pretty typical
all i'm saying is, there has to come a point where we, as concerned community citizens, get up from our computers and go out there and take care of our little part of the world that we are pissed about. that goes for every Springfielder and every concerned citizen in a criminally-challenging part of the world.
if that means contacting your landlord to make sure you can get some JEA electricity, then do it. if it means driving to Home Depot and getting a motion sensor light, then do it. if it means changing up the Neighborhood Watch patrol leaders, then do it. dats all.
Quote from: Driven1 on June 19, 2008, 03:31:32 PM
all i'm saying is, there has to come a point where we, as concerned community citizens, get up from our computers and go out there and take care of our little part of the world that we are pissed about. that goes for every Springfielder and every concerned citizen in a criminally-challenging part of the world.
sounds good...but here in Springfield we HAVE no crime, just read jacksonville.com you will see plenty of quotes frome "leadership" about how there is NO crime. Those same people have yet to comment about our friend and neighbor being shot, but maybe that didn't happen either and is all a figment of our imagination?
Quote from: stephendare on June 19, 2008, 03:28:55 PM
Quote from: downtownparks on June 19, 2008, 03:26:19 PM
Its clearly hopeless. I think the only real solution is for all Springfielders to kill themselves.
In light of the shooting, is that really appropriate humor?
What a bizarre statement anyways. Its only without solution if the residents decide not to solve it.
Pretending its not a real problem, unfortunately, is not a solution.
Being as I consider myself a friend of the victims, I think he would probably laugh too. He has a pretty good sense of humor. Plus, group suicide is a little different than robbery and attempted homicide, but being a quasi-lawyer Im sure you know that.
Maybe we can sue someone to make Main St better.
maybe we quit pretending there is no problem?
What do we have to do to convince the police to get out of their cars and walk, bike, golf cart or use horses to patrol our neighborhoods???
Yeah I have that same problem on other boards too...
I seem to remember many asking 'what is it going to take one us getting shot?" and that was LAST summer!
Interestingly enough on the SPAR forum, there was a statement stating the cops are walking or biking the downtown neighborhoods, including Springfield, although I don't know anyone who has actually seen this bike/walk patrol
I haven't seen it. I really like the idea of the mounted patrol. Get those horses out of the stables and bring them into our neighborhoods.
Those horses are HUGE and originally their stables were at 8th and main if I remember correctly.... those horses will scare these thugs and hookers to death, and all they ahve to do is ride by....
Come to the Shadco meeting, we are going to bring this up
Downtown Dweller, I know you and I have talked about this at length and dont really agree (which is fine) I think you are taking well intended PR, and read putting head in the sand. SPAR, and more specifically Louise spend many hours a week dealing with JSO and other city agencies to try to get things that Springfield needs. Sometimes it works like a charm, other times it does not.
We have all seen that the crime is cyclical, and when its up, its frustrating as hell. These are the times where trying to get neighbors active would be beneficial. As we have talked about before, and I am sure both seen though our own activism, sometimes dealing with the city, JSO, and others can be incredibly frustrating and not yield the fruit we all think it should.
We have a long way to go, but I can honestly say its still night and day from how it was when we started looking for a house in the area in 1999, and that Toms shooting, while tragic and nerve rattling is an isolated indecent (the shooting, not the robbery). I think its an opportunity for neighbors to put their differences aside, and work towards filling those gaps that we all see and feel with phone calls or feet on the street. I know it has re motivated me to do more as soon as I get back into town.
Quote from: RiversideGator on June 19, 2008, 03:24:53 PM
Quote from: stephendare on June 19, 2008, 02:55:00 PM
Quote from: RiversideGator on June 19, 2008, 02:53:25 PM
I have your number? I dont think so.
I am just curious about your plans. I think this clearly fits within the context of this thread.
It may or may not River. How would you like your address and landlord posted here?
But that isnt your address. It is the potential address for a future restaurant. And, if I was really planning a restaurant, I would love to have its address known by the public.
Quote
If the situation doesnt improve on main we may decide to open a restaurant or third space or we may decide to open it as an office, we don't know yet.
We might even decide that the expense and time isnt worth it.
I am confused. Do you have a lease with Hionides and, if so, are you paying rent? Or are you just speculating about a possible future lease on the property? It doesnt seem to make much sense to pay Hionides, a man who you previously vilified (as did I) for bringing down Main Street, if you dont intend to ever occupy the space.
I guess the questions will not be answered then?
BTW, I just did a drive by and this place has trash piled high in the windows with a piece of "art" in the left window which looks as if it was created by my 2 year old neighbor.
Also, extremely downscale individuals were wandering around the block in a daze. Some of them were homeless but some obviously reside in the upper floors of some of the buildings in this block. Get some of them to sell to legitimate landlords and you will see the entire area turn around.
Quote from: stephendare on June 19, 2008, 03:40:20 PM
Quote from: downtownparks on June 19, 2008, 03:35:58 PM
Quote from: stephendare on June 19, 2008, 03:28:55 PM
Quote from: downtownparks on June 19, 2008, 03:26:19 PM
Its clearly hopeless. I think the only real solution is for all Springfielders to kill themselves.
In light of the shooting, is that really appropriate humor?
What a bizarre statement anyways. Its only without solution if the residents decide not to solve it.
Pretending its not a real problem, unfortunately, is not a solution.
Being as I consider myself a friend of the victims, I think he would probably laugh too. He has a pretty good sense of humor. Plus, group suicide is a little different than robbery and attempted homicide, but being a quasi-lawyer Im sure you know that.
Maybe we can sue someone to make Main St better.
Either that or schedule a few more thug nights at a random club. That would be helpful.
As you sent me a series of harrassing emails yesterday accusing Craig Van Horn, and by extention me of being responsible for Toms shooting, I will address this. You see, I prefer to deal with you in public rather than try to bully you via email.
Were Toms shooters hanging out at 9th and Main before they shot him? Which events are thug oriented? Wednesday night Karaoke really causing a problem? Maybe its the tuesday night Reggae? Oh, is it the spoken word? They are pretty explicit, but not usually violent. Or are you talking about the bands we are bringing in? Last week we had a beautiful lady out of Orlando named Cori Yarckin along with local pop punk acts JoEveritt, Christian act Man Apart, and a band out of New Jersey called This Condition. We had a slow week, but I wouldnt exactly classify the people there as thugs.
Perhaps you are talking about the Pearl or Shantytown, and I should stop personalizing your off base and snarky remarks.
At the end of the day, Craig Van Horn and his henchmen could kick my cat and call my wife a whore, and I would still avoid you like the plague.
Head meet sand...
Fair enough. We agree on enough points to put us on the same page. We dont have to agree 100% to agree on the fact that we need to band together as a community and try to get more police presense, and in better more significant ways. (Mounted, bike, foot, ect).
EDIT: Not sure why you deleted your post. It was pretty well to the point in a lot of ways.
I am with you on that. I removed my post because it is really innappropriate for me to post that here. These are personal opinions, but ones shared by others in the hood, all you have to do is listen in to some conversations at local places.
Cool.
I look forward to tipping a pint, and sharing those views before we take them to those that can make a difference and getting changes implemented.
You got it!
please go back to your corners!
cameras coming.
i'm for zombie bike guys, who i think are hanging out into late night hours even if the shop isn't "open", riding around the neighborhood in packs. maybe they can put together some type of scavenger hunt game to amuse themselves with it.
i'm also for mounted police, bike police, foot police, or any more of any kind of police!
What programming is bringing the thugs?
Quote from: downtownparks on June 19, 2008, 04:50:19 PM
What programming is bringing the thugs?
The foosball matches, for one... ;)
lol. PRETEND I CAN'T HEAR IT ALL!!!!! PRETEND THEY AREN'T THERE!!!!
Quote from: RiversideGator on June 19, 2008, 04:12:02 PM
Quote from: RiversideGator on June 19, 2008, 03:24:53 PM
Quote from: stephendare on June 19, 2008, 02:55:00 PM
Quote from: RiversideGator on June 19, 2008, 02:53:25 PM
I have your number? I dont think so.
I am just curious about your plans. I think this clearly fits within the context of this thread.
It may or may not River. How would you like your address and landlord posted here?
But that isnt your address. It is the potential address for a future restaurant. And, if I was really planning a restaurant, I would love to have its address known by the public.
Quote
If the situation doesnt improve on main we may decide to open a restaurant or third space or we may decide to open it as an office, we don't know yet.
We might even decide that the expense and time isnt worth it.
I am confused. Do you have a lease with Hionides and, if so, are you paying rent? Or are you just speculating about a possible future lease on the property? It doesnt seem to make much sense to pay Hionides, a man who you previously vilified (as did I) for bringing down Main Street, if you dont intend to ever occupy the space.
I guess the questions will not be answered then?
BTW, I just did a drive by and this place has trash piled high in the windows with a piece of "art" in the left window which looks as if it was created by my 2 year old neighbor.
Also, extremely downscale individuals were wandering around the block in a daze. Some of them were homeless but some obviously reside in the upper floors of some of the buildings in this block. Get some of them to sell to legitimate landlords and you will see the entire area turn around.
RG - are you saying you drove down to the property on Main St there at 7th? how was the rest of the structures there in relation to subject?
I think we can all agree that JSO isn't doing what we pay high property taxes for, no?
Quote from: Driven1 on June 19, 2008, 06:16:12 PM
RG - are you saying you drove down to the property on Main St there at 7th? how was the rest of the structures there in relation to subject?
The address I checked out was 1715 Main Street together with the adjacent properties on that block. It is an interesting area but clearly there are some significant social pathologies represented among its current inhabitants. All of the commercial storefronts appeared vacant but still intact unlike in many blocks. The key, as I stated earlier, is to first get rid of the existing residential tenants and then work your way down to the commercial storefronts. Once it is all fully leased up, the homeless wont want to be there as much and/or will be run off by cops and residents.
Quote from: stephendare on June 19, 2008, 06:23:37 PM
well I guess River, that a building with some interior clean up and demo kindof looks like that.
Usually when I am doing interior demo I have a dumpster and actually throw out the trash inside first rather than push it to the front door. But, I guess everyone has different methods.
QuoteQuote
Also, extremely downscale individuals were wandering around the block in a daze. Some of them were homeless but some obviously reside in the upper floors of some of the buildings in this block. Get some of them to sell to legitimate landlords and you will see the entire area turn around.
These would be the tenants of the Pawn Shop, on the corner of 7th and Main as referenced in the original post below. Thanks for verifying the presence. It needs a good round of code enforcement.
The Pawn Shop is a big problem both in and of itself and with the people living above it. Also, the 3 story prarie style building at the SE corner of 8th and Main is a huge dirtbag magnet. It is a shame because the structure has tremendous potential. I would love to get ahold of it and rehab it. :)
that's a Klutho, isn't it?
I believe so and I think it used to be a hotel at some point. I am pretty sure it is Wayne Wood's book re historic Jacksonville structures but I dont have a copy here with me now to check. It is a neat building with so many possibilities.
Here's an image of it back in Springfield's glory days. Its the building on the left.
(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/spottswood/sp01924.jpg)
i love that building. next RE upturn i predict it will finally get restored to its former glory. i am remember being constantly surprised as the last few years went by (2003-2006) as no one picked it up.
Quote from: stephendare on June 20, 2008, 01:44:46 PM
It was very frustrating to see that all the changes and CEPTED work that we did has almost been completely undone.
i agree. this is very sad indeed. what do you think primarily has contributed to the reversal of all the work you did to originally clean up Springfield?
Quote from: stephendare on June 19, 2008, 05:09:52 PM
Tonight we are going to include the boulevard route in the drive through.
How was your trip along Boulevard?
It seemed quieter than usual to me too at around midnight. Apparently there was activity at 7th & Boulevard approx 3am.
How are the parks in general at night now? When I came to town in 2003, they were pretty rough.