The Skyway's future is in question: What's next?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Culture/Jazzfest-2011/i-rZxGLV4/0/L/DSC02507-L.jpg)
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-sep-the-skyways-future-is-in-question-whats-next
I've always wanted to see the Skyway evolve into something like Vancouver's Skytrain. I know its fantasy, but I can dream. ;D
Small correction, but on page 2 the "TCC" should be "TTC" it's abbreviated wrong.
But back on topic, Clevelands rail is very nice and it would be something we should model after. Going from downtown down phillips would be a great small start. I saw on the news that the arlington expressway has a proposal to have light rail in the middle, so that might be an option too.
QuoteEditorial: Figure out the purpose of the Skyway first
The Skyway People Mover has been a laughing stock for years. Now, as the system continues to deteriorate, the Jacksonville Transportation Authority is faced with the conundrum of what to do with it.
The easy answer would seem to be to simply get rid of the thing — tearing it down or turning it into a local version of New York's elevated High Line Park. The sticking point is the federal money used to set up the system, which the city would have to repay. Sunk costs are always a tricky thing to deal with — but ponying up $25 million for literally nothing is a bit galling, and that's on top of the $20 million to $25 million the JTA estimates a shutdown would cost.
Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/09/17/editorial-figure-out-the-purpose-of-the-skyway.html
QuoteIN JACKSONVILLE, A SKYWAY? OR A MONEY PIT?
The Jacksonville Skyway. If you ever saw the classic Simpsons episode about the Springfield Monorail, you'll know how most longtime locals feel about the almost 30-year old mass transit conveyance.
The complaints are myriad. It isn't especially accessible for the vast majority of residents. Some say it goes from "nowhere to nowhere." Its aesthetics? Like something out of the USSR, around the time of Konstantin Chernenko. However, especially during the One Spark festivals in recent years, the Skyway served a valuable function: getting people from the Southbank across the river to downtown
Well, the price is right. The Skyway is free to ride. And it has no shortage of supportive press advocating its case.
A recent example of such: an article in the Jacksonville Business Journal, which stated that getting the Skyway ready for its "next phase of life" would cost $64 million and $85 million dollars.
Not bad for a conveyance that brings in all of $0.00 to city coffers every year.
Full article: http://floridapolitics.com/archives/190413-in-jacksonville-a-skyway-or-a-money-pit#comment-3147
Retrofitting the current skyway to accommodate new vehicles which will allow "at grade" expansion into some of our growing neighborhoods just seems like a no-brainer to me. The TOD that resulted in the article examples can happen in Jacksonville if there is a focused long-term strategy.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 17, 2015, 02:10:53 PM
QuoteIN JACKSONVILLE, A SKYWAY? OR A MONEY PIT?
The Jacksonville Skyway. If you ever saw the classic Simpsons episode about the Springfield Monorail, you'll know how most longtime locals feel about the almost 30-year old mass transit conveyance.
The complaints are myriad. It isn't especially accessible for the vast majority of residents. Some say it goes from "nowhere to nowhere." Its aesthetics? Like something out of the USSR, around the time of Konstantin Chernenko. However, especially during the One Spark festivals in recent years, the Skyway served a valuable function: getting people from the Southbank across the river to downtown
Well, the price is right. The Skyway is free to ride. And it has no shortage of supportive press advocating its case.
A recent example of such: an article in the Jacksonville Business Journal, which stated that getting the Skyway ready for its "next phase of life" would cost $64 million and $85 million dollars.
Not bad for a conveyance that brings in all of $0.00 to city coffers every year.
Full article: http://floridapolitics.com/archives/190413-in-jacksonville-a-skyway-or-a-money-pit#comment-3147
At least the facts are straight. It does bring zero dollars to city coffers. If they charged a fare it would go to JTA coffers.
Things are different now however.
JTA has transit oriented leadership now. Before it was strictly a bus & road outfit burdened with a stepchild monorail.
Quote from: spuwho on September 17, 2015, 08:34:58 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 17, 2015, 02:10:53 PM
QuoteIN JACKSONVILLE, A SKYWAY? OR A MONEY PIT?
The Jacksonville Skyway. If you ever saw the classic Simpsons episode about the Springfield Monorail, you'll know how most longtime locals feel about the almost 30-year old mass transit conveyance.
The complaints are myriad. It isn't especially accessible for the vast majority of residents. Some say it goes from "nowhere to nowhere." Its aesthetics? Like something out of the USSR, around the time of Konstantin Chernenko. However, especially during the One Spark festivals in recent years, the Skyway served a valuable function: getting people from the Southbank across the river to downtown
Well, the price is right. The Skyway is free to ride. And it has no shortage of supportive press advocating its case.
A recent example of such: an article in the Jacksonville Business Journal, which stated that getting the Skyway ready for its "next phase of life" would cost $64 million and $85 million dollars.
Not bad for a conveyance that brings in all of $0.00 to city coffers every year.
Full article: http://floridapolitics.com/archives/190413-in-jacksonville-a-skyway-or-a-money-pit#comment-3147
At least the facts are straight. It does bring zero dollars to city coffers. If they charged a fare it would go to JTA coffers.
Things are different now however.
JTA has transit oriented leadership now. Before it was strictly a bus & road outfit burdened with a stepchild monorail.
Excellent comment.
Quote from: coredumped on September 17, 2015, 10:15:49 AM
Small correction, but on page 2 the "TCC" should be "TTC" it's abbreviated wrong.
But back on topic, Clevelands rail is very nice and it would be something we should model after. Going from downtown down phillips would be a great small start. I saw on the news that the arlington expressway has a proposal to have light rail in the middle, so that might be an option too.
The possibility of JTA getting this right is something less then certain. JTA is a State "Authority" that considers multimodal as: gas powered bus, diesel powered bus and bus rapid transit with CNG buses. In a city built by and on rails, and even under new management the brilliant comments to the press continue; "Rail is not a good fit for Jacksonville." They have stayed the course on ramming BRT down our throats as the spine on which all future transit will be built, rather then as a compliment to future rail.
Had JTA proposed a bi-directional exclusive busway right down the middle of the Arlington Expressway with all of the whistles and bells of a bronze, silver or even gold BRT system, they would have no stronger supporter then me. Instead, they give us a weak knee'd, slightly higher level of regular bus service, label it as BRT, promise the moon and stars, right alongside the FEC railway all the way to The Avenues Mall. In a word; PATHETIC.
The Skyway could easily be converted to 'rapid streetcar' (a faster hybrid using the best practices of LRT at or near the cost of streetcar) or even the Vancouver like Sky Train. Sky Train DOES have at grade running as well as at grade street crossings. Another idea that hasn't been touched in the USA for a century is narrow gauge. 3' foot or meter gauge is common throughout the world and streetcars/trams can be built that are more Skyway width, and still have many times the passenger capacity of the current Skyway cars. Current buses are generally 102" inches or just under 8 1/2 feet wide, with narrow gauge we could pick something that wouldn't require rebuilding the current stations. Narrow gauge cars are slightly lighter and track expenses are about 25% lower then standard gauge and available off-the-shelf.
The railroad system in Colombia is slightly over 2000 miles long and with one short exception, it is all 3' narrow gauge with equipment built in the USA and South Africa. Typical train cars in Colombia are 8' feet wide and quite adequate for freight or passengers.
As Lake said; "it's time to think outside of the box." And as I've always said; "it's time to pull your head out Jacksonville." Finally as Stephen in his Days of Plight series has said about JTA's thinking; "MEH!"
Interesting. Ock, how does the Skytrain handle at-grade street crossings?
Even if converted into something like New York's High Line, I still think a decommissioning of the system would be a negative for urban development in Jacksonville. Developers want to see a city that is willing, and able, to invest and expand its transit options. A retraction of that could prove devastating to the current momentum we see downtown.
I work downtown and I happen to be one of the few people who could utilize the Skyway, kind of. I park on Laura St. near FSCJ and work near Hemming. I've found that I usually can walk faster to work. Also, I've gone to use the system to find it has passed some threshold of crowdedness, so I leave and walk anyway.
The Business Journal did a great editorial on the purpose of the Skyway. I see its purpose as moving Jacksonville's workforce in and out of the most important center of commerce in a relatively large region. It also holds somekind of status symbol, but it's problems are systemic and require money and a clear vision of purpose.
Jacksonville seems to always frame this as a multimillion dollar bondagal instead of viewing the system as a multimillion dollar asset. I see it as an image problem. Think of Subway, the sandwich shop. We as city are still unlocking the Skyways usefulness, for example, One Spark. New cars, a new logo, new and expanded signage. Someone will have to breath life into it. No one has cared for too long.
I still don't see how converting the Skyway into a "High Line" is realistic or remotely desirable. Our sidewalks and parks at ground level aren't exactly swimming with pedestrians or well maintained. Why spend +$50 million to thin out the human level density even more? If we have that type of cash for parks, cycle tracks, etc., we have several existing public spaces where that type of money could be put to better use all over the urban core.
^agreed. Confederate Park could use some help, to the benefit of downtown.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 18, 2015, 07:26:20 AM
I still don't see how converting the Skyway into a "High Line" is realistic or remotely desirable. Our sidewalks and parks at ground level aren't exactly swimming with pedestrians or well maintained. Why spend +$50 million to thin out the human level density even more? If we have that type of cash for parks, cycle tracks, etc., we have several existing public spaces where that type of money could be put to better use all over the urban core.
That's my complaint with the "highline" idea as well. Why even expend the money and effort to dilute foot traffic?
Quote from: thelakelander on September 18, 2015, 07:26:20 AM
I still don't see how converting the Skyway into a "High Line" is realistic or remotely desirable. Our sidewalks and parks at ground level aren't exactly swimming with pedestrians or well maintained. Why spend +$50 million to thin out the human level density even more? If we have that type of cash for parks, cycle tracks, etc., we have several existing public spaces where that type of money could be put to better use all over the urban core.
I agree. NYC is a densely populated island that needs open and green space for citizens to escape the harsh streetscape and relax. Jacksonville has an overabundance of parks to the point where we can't maintain what we already have. We don't need to add another high profile park that largely parallels an existing linear park system (the riverwalk). I agree that if we have that kind of money to spend on a park, we need to immediately deploy it to the Hogan's creek greenway, extending the riverwalk to riverside, boone park, and enhancing/extending the western portion of the southbank riverwalk. Or if the city is desperate to have a new signature park, lets spruce up exchange island and have something really iconic that can be shown off nationally every time we have a televised event at the stadium.
The article mentions that Tampa's system has 1200 riders per day. JTA's system is now up to 5010 riders per day and is growing. As the bus intercept portion grows along with additional near the route the ridership will grow more.
While careful cost analysis is needed, there is no need to write of the Skyway until the results have been reviewed by the citizen's advisory committee and the JTA Board.
JTA has always preferred bus and road because there is no history of interaction with their city planning peers.
How can JTA justify fixed asset investments when our city fathers let any developer schmoe with influence build willy nilly anywhere under the guise of creating jobs?
Bus and road is flexible and cheap to redeploy. Fixed transit is not.
If we really want fixed transit, the city has to have a plan.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 18, 2015, 06:59:46 AM
Interesting. Ock, how does the Skytrain handle at-grade street crossings?
As I recall it came down to grade level and they had a fully automatic 4-quadrant signal system set up on the road. There was a photo of it, but I've googled it for an hour and can't locate it. Perhaps it's gone, maybe it was temporary, but it was there. The system itself can handle such things just as the new crossings in Colombia do, they are remote, fully automated and solar powered. They simply block all access to the tracks and trust me, if you can get the Colombian's to stay off the tracks and respect the train, you've got to be doing something right. F.C.Pacifico is installing 20-30 more shortly as the massive rail investment keeps ramping up.
As for narrow gauge consider it can be more economical, reduced the deadweight on trains, reduced the deterioration of rolling stock, increased power of locomotives and fuel savings, operators and maintenance costs. Most railcar builders of any type, will build to the track gauge of the customer, otherwise they would be out of the world market. It's just something that might be worth a second look in a booming cash strapped city.
As for spuwho, "Bus and road is flexible and cheap to redeploy. Fixed transit is not." It's true bus can be redeployed on a whim, which is why unless we spend big bucks, BRT will not attract a stampede of new development. Road's however are just as costly and hard to redeploy as are railroads, and narrow gauge railroads are cheaper generally running between $550,000 and $1M per mile to build. The reason for the astronomical cost of new streetcar and rail projects in the USA is because these projects are stuffed with pork like new street furnishings, landscapes, parkways, expensive stations, massive parking facilities, etc. Rail also come front loaded with a turn-key price, track, trains, maintenance buildings, electrical etc, and BRT seldom ever even counts the cost of the pavement, let alone the rolling stock or maintenance facilities. So it's certainly seldom apples to apples.
Agree we don't need another park that can barely be maintained.
The whole sky way thing here is silly. No one rides it. Look at the real experts at moving people quickly and efficiently and that's Disney. Sure they have the monorail because we expect to see it. But it has limited route. When they build more and more hotels and expand the community there -- they use busses. Lots of busses the run clean, often and on time. And you can change and vary the routes with no additional capital. Knock the thing down or make it a greenway and concentrate on getting a bus system that truly serves the whole community well
Another truly great poster joins the forum...
About 5k ride the 2.5-mile skyway in its current state. Considering we've done just about everything possible over the last +20 years to sabotage it, that's pretty good. As far as the bus comment goes, can someone name one vibrant big city downtown in this country without some form of fixed transit? If not, why would one think Jax will become the first? Ultimately, things really do boil down to what type of downtown and urban core do we want for the city. If the answer is a pedestrian scale one, then some form of fixed transit (with coordinated land use policy) will be needed. If we want to be Disney, just give up now because that's not happening.
All significant national and international cities share a strong correlation with somekind of fixed transit. Jacksonville's system may be neglected and technologically outmoded, but it holds the key to greater prestige and a better quality of life for all citizens of this city. The current identity article plays into the Skyway debate, as well as downtown and urban development in general. It all stems from the same problem, somekind of urban amnesia that exist in gen X, while gen Y has shifted its attention away from suburbia in lieu of urban culture. In an "average city" way Jacksonville can deliver that urban culture, in part due to the Skyway. I think as a city we feel conflicted because we all know it's broken, no matter which camp you belong too. I would like to see Jacksonville's position rise in the world. The right building blocks exist. The cultural cocktail could boil over with just one more ingrident. The Skyway alone is not that ingrident, but a shift toward urban policy is a start.
Quote from: alpoin on September 19, 2015, 11:06:58 AM
The whole sky way thing here is silly. No one rides it. Look at the real experts at moving people quickly and efficiently and that's Disney. Sure they have the monorail because we expect to see it. But it has limited route. When they build more and more hotels and expand the community there -- they use busses. Lots of busses the run clean, often and on time. And you can change and vary the routes with no additional capital. Knock the thing down or make it a greenway and concentrate on getting a bus system that truly serves the whole community well
Nobody rides it? What is the source for this epiphany? The Skyway was named as the fastest growing fixed transit system in America in 2014. Since it went fare free it has been breaking records with a regularity found elsewhere only on rails. It's true that buses can shift routes at will, but not at 'no cost.' The flexibility of changing routes on a whim is the precise reason why downtown Jacksonville won't explode with growth because JTA is implementing bus rapid transit. The new hybrid buses weigh in right at 20,000 pounds per axle. Do you know the absolute legal load limits on our local highways? How about 20,000 pounds per axle... meaning they are chewing up the roadways as fast or faster then a parade of 18 wheelers and asphalt is not cheap. Fact is, a mile of divided highway will cost you more then a mile of signaled, bi-directional, single track railroad. The highway will last for around 10 years and the railroad will last for 50. Every 50 +/- passengers on a bus represents a complete power plant, vehicle and a another driver. A rough rule of thumb for mass transit is 75% of your expenses are labor, while 25% of your income is from the farebox. A load of just 600 passengers represent at least 12 modern buses, conversely the first train into Miami back on April 15, 1896, carried over 600 passengers. Today that can be done on rails with a single operator... hell it can even be done fully automated.
Since we'd have to pay the government nearly $40 million if we tear it down, keeping those bents and panels in place through downtown saves us enough to build a basic streetcar line from downtown to King Street in Riverside. Installing rails on the bridge work makes all the sense in the world if they would go ahead and extend those bridges over State, Laura, Main, Ocean, Newnan and Kings Avenue plus the FEC RR. At that point we could literally hit the ground running...
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 20, 2015, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: alpoin on September 19, 2015, 11:06:58 AM
The whole sky way thing here is silly. No one rides it. Look at the real experts at moving people quickly and efficiently and that's Disney. Sure they have the monorail because we expect to see it. But it has limited route. When they build more and more hotels and expand the community there -- they use busses. Lots of busses the run clean, often and on time. And you can change and vary the routes with no additional capital. Knock the thing down or make it a greenway and concentrate on getting a bus system that truly serves the whole community well
Nobody rides it? What is the source for this epiphany? The Skyway was named as the fastest growing fixed transit system in America in 2014. Since it went fare free it has been breaking records with a regularity found elsewhere only on rails. It's true that buses can shift routes at will, but not at 'no cost.' The flexibility of changing routes on a whim is the precise reason why downtown Jacksonville won't explode with growth because JTA is implementing bus rapid transit. The new hybrid buses weigh in right at 20,000 pounds per axle. Do you know the absolute legal load limits on our local highways? How about 20,000 pounds per axle... meaning they are chewing up the roadways as fast or faster then a parade of 18 wheelers and asphalt is not cheap. Fact is, a mile of divided highway will cost you more then a mile of signaled, bi-directional, single track railroad. The highway will last for around 10 years and the railroad will last for 50. Every 50 +/- passengers on a bus represents a complete power plant, vehicle and a another driver. A rough rule of thumb for mass transit is 75% of your expenses are labor, while 25% of your income is from the farebox. A load of just 600 passengers represent at least 12 modern buses, conversely the first train into Miami back on April 15, 1896, carried over 600 passengers. Today that can be done on rails with a single operator... hell it can even be done fully automated.
Since we'd have to pay the government nearly $40 million if we tear it down, keeping those bents and panels in place through downtown saves us enough to build a basic streetcar line from downtown to King Street in Riverside. Installing rails on the bridge work makes all the sense in the world if they would go ahead and extend those bridges over State, Laura, Main, Ocean, Newnan and Kings Avenue plus the FEC RR. At that point we could literally hit the ground running...
Excellent points as always, Ock. Especially like the cost analysis. I hadn't thought of the inherent costs of buses along those lines before.
An engineering study came up with four options on what to do with the ASE.
Option 1: Run the current skyway system, as is, until it wears out and replace it with a streetcar system. One of the pros: its low cost.
Option 2: Upgrade the cars and run them for another 10-15 years.
Option 3: Replace the cars. That would improve the system but cost a lot.
Option 4: To get rid of it altogether. That one didn't sit well with the folks who currently ride.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/traffic/2015/09/22/the-jta-skyway-could-be-the-ride-to-somewhere/72661936/
Quote from: brucef58 on September 18, 2015, 11:44:57 AM
The article mentions that Tampa's system has 1200 riders per day. JTA's system is now up to 5010 riders per day and is growing. As the bus intercept portion grows along with additional near the route the ridership will grow more.
While careful cost analysis is needed, there is no need to write of the Skyway until the results have been reviewed by the citizen's advisory committee and the JTA Board.
Unless you watch First Coast News... their "facts" say the Skyway has 4,033 rides a week. Journalism at its finest.
According to the APTA's 4th Quarter, 2014 public transportation ridership report, average weekday boardings for Tampa's streetcar was 700. The same report lists the Skyway at 5,000. Orlando's Sunrail is 3,200.
source: http://www.apta.com/resources/statistics/Documents/Ridership/2014-q4-ridership-APTA.pdf
QuoteSkyway advisory group to make recommendations, but "won't do the heavy lifting"
Jacksonville Transportation Authority's Skyway Advisory Group began Monday deliberating on the contentious people mover's future. The group's starting point: Does the city even need a Skyway?
Quote"What do we want the Downtown to look like," asked Ford, "and is the Skyway a part of it. Because we'll need to invest significant money in this system, because of its condition."
Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/09/28/skyway-advisory-group-to-make-recommendations-but.html
But there WAS a vision for Downtown when the Skyway was planned in the mid to late 1970s. The "People Mover" as it was called then, was to connect a vibrant core with peripheral parking lots, the 8th Street hospital complex, the Sports Complex, 5 Points and San Marco. City buses would meet the Skyway at the various end stations, keeping slow, smelly buses out of the core, allowing them to make more trips to bring suburbanites to downtown. A downtown with high rise office buildings and plenty of retail and other services.
At the time, Southpoint and Town Center were cow pastures and Pine trees.
Has the city examined using the existing rail lines for mass transit? There's all sorts of rail lines throughout Jax. I've ridden the New York and Chicago trains that used regular trains and tracks and it was great. Isn't that what they did in Orlando with the SunRail?
Orlando's SunRail: http://sunrail.com/default.aspx (http://sunrail.com/default.aspx)
Chicago's Metra: http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home.html (http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home.html)
New York's Metra North: http://www.mta.info/mnr (http://www.mta.info/mnr)
^JTA is looking at commuter rail. However, the rail lines aren't publicly owned, so you can't have commuter rail if the entity owning the line doesn't want it or the liabilities that come with it. In Orlando's case, close to a billion was spent on Sunrail. The $184 million Skyway, in its current state, attracts more daily riders. Yet, we call the Skyway a boondoggle and Sunrail a TOD generator. Go figure....
Quote from: thelakelander on September 29, 2015, 01:45:26 PM
^JTA is looking at commuter rail. However, the rail lines aren't publicly owned, so you can't have commuter rail if the entity owning the line doesn't want it or the liabilities that come with it. In Orlando's case, close to a billion was spent on Sunrail. The $184 million Skyway, in its current state, attracts more daily riders. Yet, we call the Skyway a boondoggle and Sunrail a TOD generator. Go figure....
Boom, Lake drops the mic.
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on September 29, 2015, 01:22:29 PM
Has the city examined using the existing rail lines for mass transit? There's all sorts of rail lines throughout Jax. I've ridden the New York and Chicago trains that used regular trains and tracks and it was great. Isn't that what they did in Orlando with the SunRail?
Orlando's SunRail: http://sunrail.com/default.aspx (http://sunrail.com/default.aspx)
Chicago's Metra: http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home.html (http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home.html)
New York's Metra North: http://www.mta.info/mnr (http://www.mta.info/mnr)
I believe Chicago's Metrarail lines are dedicated solely to commuter rail. I think there would be too many delays if they were shared, kind of like Amtrak. My question is, is there enough ROW in Jax to construct commuter tracks adjacent to the existing lines so they don't have to be shared? Kind of like a dedicated bus lane on a busy street. This is way in the future, when Jax actually gets some density, but worth thinking about now.
^Yes, but the ROW is privately owned by FEC and CSX. I can't imagine the benefit to FEC in selling their mainline ROW. The CSX A-line would be easier to acquire, but I can't image CSX selling it for cheap. Once your cost for commuter rail starts getting into the hundreds of millions, you then have to ask your self, why bother? As proposed, service would be pretty infrequent, meaning ridership would be lower than what the Skyway is now. Just look at Orlando's Sunrail. +$1 billion spent on a 31 mile line for 3,200 riders/day in a MSA with 2.5 million residents. In Jax, a MSA with 1.4 million residents, that 2.5 mile long system pulls in 5,000 riders/day. It cost $184 million to build and we blew a lot of money with its implementation. Down in Miami, the Skyway's 4.4-mile sibling cost millions less and carries +30,000 riders/day.
To sum things up, you might as well take a fraction of the cash needed for a low ridership commuter rail line and toss it into a smaller urban core system with high service frequency. You'll get a lot more ridership with a well planned 10 mile system (offering frequent service) than you will with a +30 mile commuter rail line, running a few hours, five days a week.
Quote from: alpoin on September 19, 2015, 11:06:58 AM
The whole sky way thing here is silly. No one rides it.
Skyway is on pace for 1.35 million trips -up from 1.17 million last year. Somebody is riding it. Just imagine the ridership with more/better destinations.
Chicago METRA has an operating agreement with the railroads they provide service on.
This includes Union Pacific, Canadian Pacific, CN, BNSF, South Shore.
They do own some track where the original owner stopped using it. The Rock Island District, most of the Heritage Corridor (former Alton Line), Southwest District, which is the former Wabash, now partially used by NS.
The 2 Milwaukee Districts are the former Milwaukee Road lines. In fact the Milwaukee District-West is about to be expanded out further to Belvidere, using a little used Union Pacific line to Rockford under a joint arrangement with Amtrak. A major system expansion.
Most but not all of these lines are shared with freight.
Quote from: spuwho on September 30, 2015, 11:38:03 AM
Chicago METRA has an operating agreement with the railroads they provide service on.
This includes Union Pacific, Canadian Pacific, CN, BNSF, South Shore.
They do own some track where the original owner stopped using it. The Rock Island District, most of the Heritage Corridor (former Alton Line), Southwest District, which is the former Wabash, now partially used by NS.
The 2 Milwaukee Districts are the former Milwaukee Road lines. In fact the Milwaukee District-West is about to be expanded out further to Belvidere, using a little used Union Pacific line to Rockford under a joint arrangement with Amtrak. A major system expansion.
My bad, I used to live right off the northern line that goes through the Ravenswood neighborhood. My source was purely me just trying to think back if I ever saw anything other than metra trains on that line and I am almost positive I didn't. That must have been one of the lines that metra owns.
I wonder if this committee will be hearing from business owners, building managers, etc. on their thoughts about the Skyway? I would think those entities would generally be supportive of the system. With over 5,000 trips a day, something must be going right.
Without a doubt, with modifications made for streetcars on the Skyway infrastructure, once modest expansion took place (San Marco, Stadium, UF, Riverside) we'd be seeing 10,000-15,000 riders daily.
Per Stephanie Brown of WOkV the subcommittee is recommending replacing the cars with modern vehicles at the 74 million price option. They also recommend the possibility of expanding the routes and also perhaps short term expanding hours to later in the evening and weekends.
^ Awesome! Seemed like the obvious choice but I wasn't going to put it past the committee to do something dumb either.
Now the hard work begins on how to finance it. Back to JTA to work on that with recommendation on how to finance and potential expansion, etc. I think I saw that will be due December 2016 with updates quarterly.
Quote from: UNFurbanist on December 10, 2015, 03:12:54 PM
^ Awesome! Seemed like the obvious choice but I wasn't going to put it past the committee to do something dumb either.
Correct. I actually had doubt that the smart recommendation would be made (cynical side of me).
I actually think that this makes more sense to go after a TIGER grant for than the extend the skyway one block.
Thoughts from people more familiar with TIGER?
IMO, we have just as good of a chance in getting struck by lightning as we do in winning a TIGER grand to expand the Skyway. This does not mean we should not apply. Just don't count on getting anything out of it. There's a ton of competition across the country and very little funding to stretch out in small bits.
Anyway, when it comes to funding capital improvements, one option I'd suggest is the "bundling" of funding options. For example, the mobility plan will be updated sometime soon. Perhaps, the Skyway could be included as a transportation element as opposed to a road or the streetcar lines in the current plan? If Khan hasn't already taken all the bed tax money, perhaps some could be utilized on the segment to expand the Skyway to the Sports District? By piecemealing potential funding sources and opportunities, it may be easier than most think to come up with a viable plan to fund various expansion concepts.