This town is populated with a bunch of lily livered self haters. In every faucet, there always is this BS 'big brother lil brother' syndrome going on...Everything elsewhere is so damn awesome (frequently said on MJ) and we are not, blah blah blah; We'll guess what, I've been to a lot of places within the US, and everything else isn't all rosy elsewhere. DON'T even come at me with that 'I'm saying that Jax is perfect' bullsh*t, because that's old and tired, I'm over that trolling...
No matter what the topic is (you name it) all adversity is only unique to Jax (as people here think). There was this attack with a man cowardly hitting woman at the SJTC, and the usual comments came out on FB..."Jax at it's finest" "Great upscale shopping at the SJTC" and the typical mindless bullsh*t that locals say here... People here have no guts; They love attacking themselves even if BS like this frequently happens all over the country...
https://www.facebook.com/wjxt4vicmicolucci/videos/1039903789376390/
No matter the side's perspective, Jax needs to do a better job of selling itself.....if the goal is to compete other regions for economic development opportunities, retain workforce talent, millennials, be successful at downtown development, etc. If Jax doesn't really care what its image is to the outside world, then don't. At the end of the day, it's really that simple.
Perhaps we should look at what we dont rank on.
Those are the things we must like because we dont talk about it.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 16, 2015, 09:52:19 PM
No matter the side's perspective, Jax needs to do a better job of selling itself.....if the goal is to compete other regions for economic development opportunities, retain workforce talent, millennials, be successful at downtown development, etc. If Jax doesn't really care what its image is to the outside world, then don't. At the end of the day, it's really that simple.
No, it isn't. Honestly, Ennis, there's an absolutely weird vibe (unacknowledged, it seems to me) where many folks downstate and out-of-state (and far more than I care to admit locally) seemingly want us to apologize for being Southern. That's never going to happen, hopefully. Just as mediocrity is in the eye of the beholder, some of the worst elements of that "apologize for being southern" attitude appear on this board regularly, IMHO. It's downright bizarre to me. The ignorant (and there's really no other way to phrase it) navel-gazing, the criticisms that lack any context whatsoever, the "I know better than you hicks" hubris -- DAYYYYUUUUUMMMMMM !!!
I'm doubtful Jacksonville needs to do a better job of selling itself at all. That's a hard-wired presumption that rarely gets questioned here. I'm questioning it. We sit at a unique crossroad. People who will praise things Southern have a harder time doing so when encountering it in Jacksonville. People who are quite accepting of things Florida have a harder time accepting the same in Jacksonville. That is not so much about us, that's about
them, and they're just going to have to catch up with this hybrid city (to me, it's
*that* simple, really) -- Very Florida, Very Southern.
We're already the youngest urban city in this state -- we don't have a problem with millenials, we just don't quite have the attitudinal mix that some on this board would prefer. The praises of Tampa, Orlando and Miami are outlined on this board with little apparent comprehension that their primary "leg up" on us, when you really get down to brass tacks, is a tourists' winter-weather-preference that the city can do nothing about. There are many, many negatives in each of those locations that easily match the negatives of Jacksonville.
Florida cities, not just Jacksonville, come under heavy criticism out-of-state and much of it is as ignorant as this often unproductive local criticism of Jax. Some of this urban core stuff, so clearly developed for a non-Florida or non-Southern climate & reality -- man, come on Ennis. Come on, man.
We have glaring issues in Jacksonville, no doubt about it. We absolutely have to figure out a way to move forward downtown but it sure seems like that is happening. At least it does to me. Faster, please -- I agree. Shad Kahn, Peter Rummel et al., Godspeed to them and a host of others. But from Brunswick and the Golden Isles down to Palm Coast, the region really seems to be coming of age to me.
Anyway, I'm listening to some Donny Hathaway and this post has taken way too much of my evening musical enjoyment. Y'all do a good job of recognizing what is special about this city and region, and what could be even more special. I don't mean to say that you don't. The attitudinal mix of constructive criticism just seems -- seems -- to be a bit off too often.
I have been intrigued with this idea of a local inferiority complex for sometime. I moved to Jax as a teenage Navy brat in 1975 and have lived here pretty much ever since. To me Jax includes the surrounding counties though they each have their own personality. Like many "self-haters", I too see many things that can be improved. But I don't think I "hate" Jax/NEFL when I notice too much trash/too many Confederate flags/too many tacky snipe signs/too many panhandlers at intersections/etc. I just want my hometown to be its best. If someone doesn't point out what needs to be improved and do something about it, nothing changes.
I have heard directly from quite a few people who moved to Jacksonville from other parts of the country about how much they love the region. They brag about friendliness, great weather, many entertainment options, beautiful natural resources, great public schools (regionally), and so forth. One in particular, a senior doctor at Mayo, said he and his wife chose NEFL over all the many places they lived around the world during his Navy career. Yes, we may look around and find our hometown lacking in certain areas, but I can confidently say I have no desire to live anywhere else. And it doesn't bother me some people can only complain about Jax. I wish them well in their search for a place they can be happy and call it home. For me - I'm already there. Peace.
Quote from: I-10east on September 16, 2015, 09:09:21 PM
This town is populated with a bunch of lily livered self haters. In every faucet, there always is this BS 'big brother lil brother' syndrome going on...Everything elsewhere is so damn awesome (frequently said on MJ) and we are not, blah blah blah; We'll guess what, I've been to a lot of places within the US, and everything else isn't all rosy elsewhere. DON'T even come at me with that 'I'm saying that Jax is perfect' bullsh*t, because that's old and tired, I'm over that trolling...
No matter what the topic is (you name it) all adversity is only unique to Jax (as people here think). There was this attack with a man cowardly hitting woman at the SJTC, and the usual comments came out on FB..."Jax at it's finest" "Great upscale shopping at the SJTC" and the typical mindless bullsh*t that locals say here... People here have no guts; They love attacking themselves even if BS like this frequently happens all over the country...
https://www.facebook.com/wjxt4vicmicolucci/videos/1039903789376390/
I think Jacksonville's great. But I also appreciate that it has problems - it was better (in my opinion) when I moved there in 1979 than it was when I moved away in 2007. I think there are challenges to overcome. But I also think it has its own charms - plus, it will always be my home.
I just want Jacksonville to be successful.
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 16, 2015, 11:32:47 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 16, 2015, 09:52:19 PM
No matter the side's perspective, Jax needs to do a better job of selling itself.....if the goal is to compete other regions for economic development opportunities, retain workforce talent, millennials, be successful at downtown development, etc. If Jax doesn't really care what its image is to the outside world, then don't. At the end of the day, it's really that simple.
No, it isn't. Honestly, Ennis, there's an absolutely weird vibe (unacknowledged, it seems to me) where many folks downstate and out-of-state (and far more than I care to admit locally) seemingly want us to apologize for being Southern. That's never going to happen, hopefully. Just as mediocrity is in the eye of the beholder, some of the worst elements of that "apologize for being southern" attitude appear on this board regularly, IMHO. It's downright bizarre to me. The ignorant (and there's really no other way to phrase it) navel-gazing, the criticisms that lack any context whatsoever, the "I know better than you hicks" hubris -- DAYYYYUUUUUMMMMMM !!!
I'm doubtful Jacksonville needs to do a better job of selling itself at all. That's a hard-wired presumption that rarely gets questioned here. I'm questioning it. We sit at a unique crossroad. People who will praise things Southern have a harder time doing so when encountering it in Jacksonville. People who are quite accepting of things Florida have a harder time accepting the same in Jacksonville. That is not so much about us, that's about them, and they're just going to have to catch up with this hybrid city (to me, it's *that* simple, really) -- Very Florida, Very Southern.
We're already the youngest urban city in this state -- we don't have a problem with millenials, we just don't quite have the attitudinal mix that some on this board would prefer. The praises of Tampa, Orlando and Miami are outlined on this board with little apparent comprehension that their primary "leg up" on us, when you really get down to brass tacks, is a tourists' winter-weather-preference that the city can do nothing about. There are many, many negatives in each of those locations that easily match the negatives of Jacksonville. Florida cities, not just Jacksonville, come under heavy criticism out-of-state and much of it is as ignorant as this often unproductive local criticism of Jax. Some of this urban core stuff, so clearly developed for a non-Florida or non-Southern climate & reality -- man, come on Ennis. Come on, man.
We have glaring issues in Jacksonville, no doubt about it. We absolutely have to figure out a way to move forward downtown but it sure seems like that is happening. At least it does to me. Faster, please -- I agree. Shad Kahn, Peter Rummel et al., Godspeed to them and a host of others. But from Brunswick and the Golden Isles down to Palm Coast, the region really seems to be coming of age to me.
Anyway, I'm listening to some Donny Hathaway and this post has taken way too much of my evening musical enjoyment. Y'all do a good job of recognizing what is special about this city and region, and what could be even more special. I don't mean to say that you don't. The attitudinal mix of constructive criticism just seems -- seems -- to be a bit off too often.
Wow. How did you equate all of this from my simple statement about better promoting itself for economic development opportunities? Whatever, you want your image to be, it should be promoted.
I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with RattlerGator that the city is a hybrid of Florida and the Deep South, and that should be embraced. It is your niche, but you don't develop/exploit it at all.
That said, Stephen makes a very salient point about Southern vs. Neo-Confederate.
QuoteI have heard directly from quite a few people who moved to Jacksonville from other parts of the country about how much they love the region. They brag about friendliness, great weather, many entertainment options, beautiful natural resources, great public schools (regionally), and so forth.
THIS is a BIG part of the inferiority complex problem. Locals are very quick to see the negatives but seem oblivious to the positives. To them the positives are just a 'given' that can be found anywhere, but that is NOT true.
I think having a term limited Mayor is a big problem that keeps the city from reaching it's potential. That, plus the Mayors of recent years have been mediocre at best, has kept the city from progressing as it should have.
Quote from: vicupstate on September 17, 2015, 09:30:04 AM
I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with RattlerGator that the city is a hybrid of Florida and the Deep South, and that should be embraced. It is your niche, but you don't develop/exploit it at all.
That said, Stephen makes a very salient point about Southern vs. Neo-Confederate.
QuoteI have heard directly from quite a few people who moved to Jacksonville from other parts of the country about how much they love the region. They brag about friendliness, great weather, many entertainment options, beautiful natural resources, great public schools (regionally), and so forth.
THIS is a BIG part of the inferiority complex problem. Locals are very quick to see the negatives but seem oblivious to the positives. To them the positives are just a 'given' that can be found anywhere, but that is NOT true.
I think having a term limited Mayor is a big problem that keeps the city from reaching it's potential. That, plus the Mayors of recent years have been mediocre at best, has kept the city from progressing as it should have.
Agree!
If Jax has an inferiority complex, it's because it is inferior. If anything I would say the opposite though - the city is rife with Boosterism and busily slapping paint on pigs and telling you to like it.
Over the last 15 years - Jax chased the lowest $ jobs (Back office) while other Southern states built manufacturing plants and tech centers... Sat on or under invested in unreal downtown waterfront space (landing and shipyards) and actively frustrated organic development in its historic neighborhoods. Hitched its wagon to the NFL and SuperBowl and then spectacularly undershot the mark...
So much of the hype of 2000 is unrealized. And there is a reason for it.
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcobdkuskW1qh7br9o1_500.jpg)
QuoteTHIS is a BIG part of the inferiority complex problem. Locals are very quick to see the negatives but seem oblivious to the positives. To them the positives are just a 'given' that can be found anywhere, but that is NOT true.
I've found this in most of the old southern cities. Memphis, Montgomery, Birmingham, etc.
Quote from: Sentient on September 17, 2015, 10:02:49 AM
If Jax has an inferiority complex, it's because it is inferior. If anything I would say the opposite though - the city is rife with Boosterism and busily slapping paint on pigs and telling you to like it.
Over the last 15 years - Jax chased the lowest $ jobs (Back office) while other Southern states built manufacturing plants and tech centers... Sat on or under invested in unreal downtown waterfront space (landing and shipyards) and actively frustrated organic development in its historic neighborhoods. Hitched its wagon to the NFL and SuperBowl and then spectacularly undershot the mark...
So much of the hype of 2000 is unrealized. And there is a reason for it.
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcobdkuskW1qh7br9o1_500.jpg)
That old man is totally looking up her skirt.
For most of my life I've noticed the inferiority complex and thought it was the single worst thing about living here. There's some blind boosterism, but please, it's not nearly as pervasive as the attitude that we as a community are just, well, "inferior" by whatever measure, and that it's been this way for decades, and that changing the course is just so hard that we may as well not even try. It really is a complex in that it's been internalized by so many people and is so totally out of proportion with the actual strengths and weaknesses of the city.
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcobdkuskW1qh7br9o1_500.jpg)
[/quote]
That old man is totally looking up her skirt.
[/quote]
Exactly - captures Jax perfectly - he probably went on to vote down all kinds of things based on some superior morality...
Quote from: Tacachale on September 17, 2015, 10:47:14 AM
For most of my life I've noticed the inferiority complex and thought it was the single worst thing about living here. There's some blind boosterism, but please, it's not nearly as pervasive as the attitude that we as a community are just, well, "inferior" by whatever measure, and that it's been this way for decades, and that changing the course is just so hard that we may as well not even try. It really is a complex in that it's been internalized by so many people and is so totally out of proportion with the actual strengths and weaknesses of the city.
Well we are probably within five posts of "if you all don't like Jax you can just move!" level introspection.
I don't think the people of Jax have any more an inferiority complex than people of, say, Cleveland, or Tampa, or Bloomington, IL or something. People who live in a place for a long time and can't get what they want out of it - whatever that is - are going to start to see more negatives than positives. Personally, my wife and I are leaving either late this year or early next year, because we have seen no real deep, positive changes in Jax over the past several years and are ready to move on. (That and my wife and I are sick to death of the heat and mugginess!) And I say this not only as a lifelong resident but as a 3rd generation native whose family is big and fairly well known in the area. We put our money where our mouth was, hoping the city was on the verge of improving: we bought a house in an older neighborhood right across the river from downtown. Unfortunately the recession took more of a toll on development than we thought it would and things seem to have slowed to a crawl.
I've traveled extensively and outside of some major cities (SF, NYC, LA, DC, etc) Jacksonville isn't markedly better or worse than any other mid-range sprawling city. There are issues, like public transportation, that frankly are problems in most US cities. People (like me!) talk about downtown being a dead zone but even Seattle and Portland's downtown areas shut down at 6 or 7. In my case - and probably in the case of most other people who aren't happy here - it's less a problem inherent to Jacksonville and more a case of the city just not being what we're looking for.
Many people who complain may just be looking for some kind of utopia that doesn't exist. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try to work towards it. But I don't think the inferiority complex thing is unique to Jacksonville at all.
Quote from: Bativac on September 17, 2015, 11:04:58 AM
People (like me!) talk about downtown being a dead zone but even Seattle... shut down at 6 or 7.
No. Belltown is a mere 5 blocks from Seattle Town Hall and Pioneer Square is 7 blocks. Both areas are firmly downtown and close at 2AM.
Actually Seattle is a great comparison to downtown Jax as the layout for much of the downtown is very similar - small CBD, waterfront and Sports Stadium right there.
The more I traveled across the country the less I disliked Jax. Outside of a few major cities, I see a lot of the same thing everywhere in the country. As a recent article said, we are pretty average. I think that's the problem people have with it here, they're wanting something more out of a city that's pretty typical of most mid-size american cities. Nothing wrong with that, just gotta figure out what'll make you happy.
The more I travel, the more I accept Jax for what it truly is. A small average US city that has the potential to be a great average US city. I also agree that outside of a few major cities (and a couple that were major before WWII), there's not much difference between the rest. There are some areas where a few places are better off than others, but that applies across the board. Nevertheless, being an average place does not mean you can't continue to invest in your quality of life to carve out your own niche economically. I think places like Portland, Minneapolis, Columbus, Charlotte, Salt Lake City,etc. are doing a pretty good job at that. I'd love for Jax to start seriously investing in its quality of life as well.
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 16, 2015, 11:32:47 PM
We're already the youngest urban city in this state
Actually we are the oldest major city in Florida. There are many factors as to why South Florida (followed by the Tampa Bay area, and Central FL) is the most populated areas in the state than to simply say 'Jax is underachieving'.
I believe the median average age is higher than Jax in Miami and lower in Tampa and Orlando.
Quote from: Sentient on September 17, 2015, 10:55:01 AM
Well we are probably within five posts of "if you all don't like Jax you can just move!" level introspection.
Well, I'll probably end up like four other family members and end up moving away.
Why is it that so many newcomers to the "Jacksonville" area head directly to surrounding counties?
Jacksonville's "Millionth Mania",the celebration of "Jacksonville's" Millionth resident,complete with Barnett Bank sponsorship,COJ Events Office engagement, fire works downtown was pure reflection of inferiority. Only by including surrounding county population could "Jacksonville" muster claim to coveted "Millionth" resident.
Carl Hiaasen,in his book "Kick Ass" surmised that the effort could have in fact been brilliant diabolical depromotion. 8)
But things are looking up! Why,with only five liquor serving establishments at the Shoppes Of Avondale,we can now hope for more! More! More!
In fact we can rest some,and enjoy what we have. And pray neighborhood decline,influences are not cause for "Flight"
Colorado's recent effort to become the finest cycling state in the Nation is a hint to an outlook that spurs confidence and anticipation,a positive 'growth' driver,a reflection of cities and towns not saddled with Inferior outlook,or Inferior inclinations.
Quote from: stephendare on September 17, 2015, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: I-10east on September 17, 2015, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 16, 2015, 11:32:47 PM
We're already the youngest urban city in this state
Actually we are the oldest major city in Florida. There are many factors as to why South Florida (followed by the Tampa Bay area, and Central FL) is the most populated areas in the state than to simply say 'Jax is underachieving'.
youngest average age.
Gotcha, my bad.
Quote from: Know Growth on September 17, 2015, 08:33:21 PM
Quote from: Sentient on September 17, 2015, 10:55:01 AM
Well we are probably within five posts of "if you all don't like Jax you can just move!" level introspection.
Well, I'll probably end up like four other family members and end up moving away.
Say it aint so.
There will be plenty of people to replace the ones that will move away; Jax is a growing city. The grass in NOT greener on the other side for me, this is my home, but we do have an epidemic-like inferiority complex.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 17, 2015, 12:30:14 PM
The more I travel, the more I accept Jax for what it truly is. A small average US city that has the potential to be a great average US city. I also agree that outside of a few major cities (and a couple that were major before WWII), there's not much difference between the rest. There are some areas where a few places are better off than others, but that applies across the board. Nevertheless, being an average place does not mean you can't continue to invest in your quality of life to carve out your own niche economically. I think places like Portland, Minneapolis, Columbus, Charlotte, Salt Lake City,etc. are doing a pretty good job at that. I'd love for Jax to start seriously investing in its quality of life as well.
I agree that Jax is a lot like the average American city, although I don't really accept with the average American city is, so therefore I don't accept what the status quo has been in Jax. We are the wealthiest country in the world and have been for some time yet our average section of our average inner city looks like something in a third world country. If the average inner city streets in Jax like University Blvd and Beach Blvd are comparable to average inner city streets across the country (which they are for the most part) then that is pretty sad and we should be ashamed for accepting that. Most cities across the country have a long way to go to improve their quality of life. Short-sighted development and bad urban renewal strategies have destroyed huge areas in many cities and we are paying for it now.
I think the average person is starting to realize a little bit more nowadays how much the built environment around you impacts your mental health and quality of life where for so long smart planning and design was an afterthought, or not a thought at all. Just make a quick profit and feed the market demand, don't think about how it impacts the community because that costs money, move on to the next project. Hopefully in places like Jax, the "average" American city, there continues to be more of a push towards smart growth, growth that is sustainable and increases the quality of life.
Quote from: I-10east on September 18, 2015, 02:06:12 AM
There will be plenty of people to replace the ones that will move away; Jax is a growing city. The grass in NOT greener on the other side for me, this is my home, but we do have an epidemic-like inferiority complex.
Based on my experience, the grass isn't necessarily greener, it's just... different. All cities and towns have their positives and negatives. It just matters what's important to you - and what you prioritize. No one place is going to offer everything.
Quote from: Adam White on September 18, 2015, 08:39:13 AM
Quote from: I-10east on September 18, 2015, 02:06:12 AM
There will be plenty of people to replace the ones that will move away; Jax is a growing city. The grass in NOT greener on the other side for me, this is my home, but we do have an epidemic-like inferiority complex.
Based on my experience, the grass isn't necessarily greener, it's just... different. All cities and towns have their positives and negatives. It just matters what's important to you - and what you prioritize. No one place is going to offer everything.
I agree.
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 16, 2015, 11:32:47 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 16, 2015, 09:52:19 PM
No matter the side's perspective, Jax needs to do a better job of selling itself.....if the goal is to compete other regions for economic development opportunities, retain workforce talent, millennials, be successful at downtown development, etc. If Jax doesn't really care what its image is to the outside world, then don't. At the end of the day, it's really that simple.
No, it isn't. Honestly, Ennis, there's an absolutely weird vibe (unacknowledged, it seems to me) where many folks downstate and out-of-state (and far more than I care to admit locally) seemingly want us to apologize for being Southern. That's never going to happen, hopefully. Just as mediocrity is in the eye of the beholder, some of the worst elements of that "apologize for being southern" attitude appear on this board regularly, IMHO. It's downright bizarre to me. The ignorant (and there's really no other way to phrase it) navel-gazing, the criticisms that lack any context whatsoever, the "I know better than you hicks" hubris -- DAYYYYUUUUUMMMMMM !!!
I'm doubtful Jacksonville needs to do a better job of selling itself at all. That's a hard-wired presumption that rarely gets questioned here. I'm questioning it. We sit at a unique crossroad. People who will praise things Southern have a harder time doing so when encountering it in Jacksonville. People who are quite accepting of things Florida have a harder time accepting the same in Jacksonville. That is not so much about us, that's about them, and they're just going to have to catch up with this hybrid city (to me, it's *that* simple, really) -- Very Florida, Very Southern.
We're already the youngest urban city in this state -- we don't have a problem with millenials, we just don't quite have the attitudinal mix that some on this board would prefer. The praises of Tampa, Orlando and Miami are outlined on this board with little apparent comprehension that their primary "leg up" on us, when you really get down to brass tacks, is a tourists' winter-weather-preference that the city can do nothing about. There are many, many negatives in each of those locations that easily match the negatives of Jacksonville. Florida cities, not just Jacksonville, come under heavy criticism out-of-state and much of it is as ignorant as this often unproductive local criticism of Jax. Some of this urban core stuff, so clearly developed for a non-Florida or non-Southern climate & reality -- man, come on Ennis. Come on, man.
We have glaring issues in Jacksonville, no doubt about it. We absolutely have to figure out a way to move forward downtown but it sure seems like that is happening. At least it does to me. Faster, please -- I agree. Shad Kahn, Peter Rummel et al., Godspeed to them and a host of others. But from Brunswick and the Golden Isles down to Palm Coast, the region really seems to be coming of age to me.
Anyway, I'm listening to some Donny Hathaway and this post has taken way too much of my evening musical enjoyment. Y'all do a good job of recognizing what is special about this city and region, and what could be even more special. I don't mean to say that you don't. The attitudinal mix of constructive criticism just seems -- seems -- to be a bit off too often.
I moved here almost 5 years ago (this Jan) and I came from a small town of about 5,000 with a couple bigger surrounding cities within driving distance including one that is almost identical to jax in population size. I haven't lived anywhere where else but my hometown, jax, and a slightly bigger city just south of my hometown that's around 150,000 people. I have travelled to other cities and you are spot on. Since moving here I've thought this exact same thing for years when hearing people complain. Never said it publicly because I knew it would create a bitch fest. We definitely need to always find a way and strive to make Jacksonville better everyday, but the lack of acknowledging the what this city has to offer is annoying.
Coming from someone that lived in a town of 5,000 and 150,000 people for 26 years and didn't have a 1/4th of what Jax has to offer really makes you appreciate this city much more more. A lot of people here have no idea how good Jax really is compared to other places. So thanks for speaking up; I'm glad to see someone else out there feels the same way.
Quote from: rohicks on September 18, 2015, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 16, 2015, 11:32:47 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 16, 2015, 09:52:19 PM
No matter the side's perspective, Jax needs to do a better job of selling itself.....if the goal is to compete other regions for economic development opportunities, retain workforce talent, millennials, be successful at downtown development, etc. If Jax doesn't really care what its image is to the outside world, then don't. At the end of the day, it's really that simple.
No, it isn't. Honestly, Ennis, there's an absolutely weird vibe (unacknowledged, it seems to me) where many folks downstate and out-of-state (and far more than I care to admit locally) seemingly want us to apologize for being Southern. That's never going to happen, hopefully. Just as mediocrity is in the eye of the beholder, some of the worst elements of that "apologize for being southern" attitude appear on this board regularly, IMHO. It's downright bizarre to me. The ignorant (and there's really no other way to phrase it) navel-gazing, the criticisms that lack any context whatsoever, the "I know better than you hicks" hubris -- DAYYYYUUUUUMMMMMM !!!
I'm doubtful Jacksonville needs to do a better job of selling itself at all. That's a hard-wired presumption that rarely gets questioned here. I'm questioning it. We sit at a unique crossroad. People who will praise things Southern have a harder time doing so when encountering it in Jacksonville. People who are quite accepting of things Florida have a harder time accepting the same in Jacksonville. That is not so much about us, that's about them, and they're just going to have to catch up with this hybrid city (to me, it's *that* simple, really) -- Very Florida, Very Southern.
We're already the youngest urban city in this state -- we don't have a problem with millenials, we just don't quite have the attitudinal mix that some on this board would prefer. The praises of Tampa, Orlando and Miami are outlined on this board with little apparent comprehension that their primary "leg up" on us, when you really get down to brass tacks, is a tourists' winter-weather-preference that the city can do nothing about. There are many, many negatives in each of those locations that easily match the negatives of Jacksonville. Florida cities, not just Jacksonville, come under heavy criticism out-of-state and much of it is as ignorant as this often unproductive local criticism of Jax. Some of this urban core stuff, so clearly developed for a non-Florida or non-Southern climate & reality -- man, come on Ennis. Come on, man.
We have glaring issues in Jacksonville, no doubt about it. We absolutely have to figure out a way to move forward downtown but it sure seems like that is happening. At least it does to me. Faster, please -- I agree. Shad Kahn, Peter Rummel et al., Godspeed to them and a host of others. But from Brunswick and the Golden Isles down to Palm Coast, the region really seems to be coming of age to me.
Anyway, I'm listening to some Donny Hathaway and this post has taken way too much of my evening musical enjoyment. Y'all do a good job of recognizing what is special about this city and region, and what could be even more special. I don't mean to say that you don't. The attitudinal mix of constructive criticism just seems -- seems -- to be a bit off too often.
I moved here almost 5 years ago (this Jan) and I came from a small town of about 5,000 with a couple bigger surrounding cities within driving distance including one that is almost identical to jax in population size. I haven't lived anywhere where else but my hometown, jax, and a slightly bigger city just south of my hometown that's around 150,000 people. I have travelled to other cities and you are spot on. Since moving here I've thought this exact same thing for years when hearing people complain. Never said it publicly because I knew it would create a bitch fest. We definitely need to always find a way and strive to make Jacksonville better everyday, but the lack of acknowledging the what this city has to offer is annoying.
Coming from someone that lived in a town of 5,000 and 150,000 people for 26 years and didn't have a 1/4th of what Jax has to offer really makes you appreciate this city much more more. A lot of people here have no idea how good Jax really is compared to other places. So thanks for speaking up; I'm glad to see someone else out there feels the same way.
Most of the people on this board, from what I can tell, are dreamers and ideas people, myself included. We constantly explore how to improve things from the way they currently are. This is just habit and is not a bad thing. I have done this no matter what city or town I've lived in, and I've lived in some great towns. We are all interested in cities and how they develop and what works and what could be better. Jacksonville is a good average town but not a great town, so most of the bitching you hear is because there are a lot of people out there that know Jacksonville could be a great town because the ingredients are there they just haven't been mixed together. I'm not talking about great town as in 3 million people with everything imaginable, but great for its size. Beautiful river, Ocean, historic neighborhoods, active population, great location, Florida beaches yet still has a mild season with some seasonal change, etc. These are all great traits that not every city has.
I'm not exactly sure what meaning the "apologize for being southern" comment has. I'm from up north originally and like the fact that Jax is more southern than the other Florida cities. In fact I think that is the one defining, obvious attribute that separates Jax from "them" in a good way. It has both worlds, southern and Florida I agree, and that's a good thing, and that is exactly what Jax should be embracing. I get annoyed because I see a Jacksonville that has gotten away from that culture and wants to be more mundane and just like everywhere else. Maybe I'm missing your point.
There are two issues with Jax which lead to the frustration, lamentation, under-achieving etc. The first, as some have hit on, is that there are so many good raw ingredients here to build on - population - ocean/river - weather - historic neighborhoods - low taxes - etc. and yet they are never combined in a really tasty way and over and over again. So you are left wanting more, and scratching your head as to why things didn't quite click. A restaurant you would go to again, everything was OK enough, but not one you are looking forward to all week, or people travel to in anticipation and excitement. The Biscotti's of cities.
The second issue, which I believe creates the above paradox is that JAX really does not have any identifiable culture, the way you know even smaller places like Charleston or Savannah etc. have. I'm not talking about an art museum or symphony or eating with a knife and fork culture, I'm talking about an ethos, a "way" a point of view... The closest I can point to when people ask what the culture of Jacksonville is like is "SEC football"...
When people in JAX stop acting like white trash then we can give them the honor of being southern.
BTW - the term "white trash" is southern and southerners have to deal with the dregs of society that make our whole region look bad.
Jacksonville does need to do a better job at marketing itself.
Why does Denver and Colorado Sorings have a reputation for being an outdoors and athletic paradise? Because they knew how to market themselves.
We have beaches, rivers, tidal estuaries, intracoastal waterways and the largest urban park system in the country. Close by are great swamps and springs.
Plenty of place to bike riding and kayaking.
Year most people in JAX don't even take advantage of our great outdoors and very few outsiders consider us an outdoor recreational destination.
We fail to take pride in what we have and are clueless in how to market ourselves.
Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on September 18, 2015, 02:14:47 PM
Jacksonville does need to do a better job at marketing itself.
Why does Denver and Colorado Sorings have a reputation for being an outdoors and athletic paradise? Because they knew how to market themselves.
We have beaches, rivers, tidal estuaries, intracoastal waterways and the largest urban park system in the country. Close by are great swamps and springs.
Plenty of place to bike riding and kayaking.
Year most people in JAX don't even take advantage of our great outdoors and very few outsiders consider us an outdoor recreational destination.
We fail to take pride in what we have and are clueless in how to market ourselves.
Marketing and boosterism create disatisfaction... Outdoors places get reputations from people being outdoors and DOING stuff. Same way REI and Patagonia got reputations in retail for actually DOING the stuff they were selling... An outdoors culture.
In Jax - How many Kayaks do you see out on the water? How many bike rides do you see?
It gets back to a culture. You can market a culture (New Orleans, Las Vegas, Colorado), you can only market potential for so long.
Quote from: Sentient on September 18, 2015, 02:20:50 PM
In Jax - How many Kayaks do you see out on the water?
Oh fuck. I think you just opened Pandora's box.
hahahahahah ^
That the point, you should see more kayaks on our waters, more bikes on our roads, more ocean sports, more people exploring our phenomenal park system.
We have the natural assets to be a great, athletic and healthy city.
But to be honest, if you look at the average Jaxon, do they make the poster boys/girls of health and recreation?
Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on September 18, 2015, 02:36:36 PM
That the point, you should see more kayaks on our waters, more bikes on our roads, more ocean sports, more people exploring our phenomenal park system.
We have the natural assets to be a great, athletic and healthy city.
But to be honest, if you look at the average Jaxon, do they make the poster boys/girls of health and recreation?
Exactly - it's not a health focused culture by and large. So you just market potential.
Tell me assembled what IDENTIFIES Jacksonville and a native J'Villian? What is THE dish that everyone grew up on and expats are pining for? What is the shared common experience among families and neighbors?
Or is it all lost to time at this point?
I'm all for arts and culture, however, currently the arts are not a competitive strength in Jacksonville.
Don't missunderstand me, there is plenty of culture and arts and creative people in JAX but it's all sprawled out except for maybe one night a month downtown.
We are too sprawled for synergy.
A group could be at the Florida Theater one night for a great event but rarely is it the same night when the Times Union has packed houses for shows and concerts.
You can leave a show at the TU and never know there is an Elbow much less where it was.
Go to Theater Jacksonville for outstanding community theater, when the show is over it's just you and a few stragglers at restaurants. You have to travel downtown or go out to the beach to see people leaving the theater out there.
None of those theater people will find the CoRK district for a pre dinner art gallery show opening unless they drove way to get there and that's if they even knew where there (CoRK) was.
Unless we do an ART SPRAWL to find all of these venues and artists, actors & musicians.
This is the problem with sprawl.
"We are too sprawled for synergy."
This is actually something I have been thinking about since the BOLD NEW CITY OF THE SOUTH picture, which was taken on the day of consolidation.
Consolidation has been a huge failure in most regards. Yes the white guard preserved the control of downtown but at the expense of diffusion of energy and inhibiting development of pockets of culture across the city. The irony is downtown is lost nevertheless and the surrounding areas never living up to their potential. It's always dangerous to approach a drowning person... you usually end up with two lost.
I, for one, believe that if we were no so sprawled out then we would have developed closer together and certain places would be undisputed creative areas and those areas would excite locals and visitors with most creatives working, living, breathing and creating in the same communal neighborhoods and those neighborhoods would represent JAX like they do in other cities.
Pick any semi great American city and people will sing the praises of that city and if you want to experience that city then everyone tells you to go to X neighborhood but Y and Z neighborhoods are great too because of ABC but not much the D.
If we are being honest, can we really say that about Jacksonville? Go to one or two neighborhoods and you'll experience JAX culture and fell like a JAX native?
SPRAWL IS WHAT WE HAVE, so how do we go from here and play up to our strengths and market ourselves?
As others have pointed out, Jacksonville culturally and our natural landscape is both southern and Floridian.
This should be our marketing niche.
Queen and sable palms intermixed with southern live oaks dripping with Spanish moss where the setting sun dapples just bought light threw the moss to light the tree up like a soft chandelier and magnolia blooms showing their glory in the full moonlights.
Beaches that are never crowded and whole areas in our region just north and south of JAX where on slightly chilly days you are the only person walking there for maybe a half mile with a few joggers or dog walkers passing by in the distance.
Our population is mostly transplants from southern states and the northeast which can great a nice blended culture of tradition and change.
We have a great ocean, a the great St Johns River, the Ortega River, nearby St Mary's River, Intreacoatal Waterway, marches, hidden coves and silent creeks, nearly Okeefenokee Swamp and Cumberland Island.
Hardly any local knows of the wonders that is White Oak Plantation Conservation and wildlife sanctuary.
Why do most locals over look these great assets and why do must southerners within a day's driving distance have no idea it's all here in one place?
Quote from: stephendare on September 18, 2015, 03:28:12 PM
we actually have an amazing history and a pretty vibrant group of artists and performers who are from here. The present dysfunction isn't a result of sprawl or lack of marketing, its the direct result of the Culture Wars of the 1990s when wealthy conservatives seized control of the various cultural institutions and then pretty much destroyed them.
It took away the infrastructure in place that allowed for people to go on to regional and national careers. There was a massive exodus of artists, writers, performers etc from the city by the mid 1990s.
Terrible.
That is tragic and true and hopefully changing.
Also a problem when the artists allowed wealthy benefactors to control the culture.
Many creative centers once had royal or high society controlling atge museums, operas and arts funding, though, most art centers ha e long ago developed their own arts undergrounds (just throwing a random term out there) that they were confident enough in their own creativity and had the synergy to open up spaces and galleries and theaters to show work no officially sanctioned by the establishment.
They created arts and experimental theaters on the cheap but they also insisted on quality so they didn't need the support from the ladies of the garden club or the bankers or local prep school cliques.
JAX apparently did not evolve with a strong and confident arts community to challenge the prudes in the stuffy clubhouses.
Let's just hope that we've learned from our past and ensure that our artists, actors and writers don't need to royal seal of approval from OLD LINE STUFFY ART MATRON ON HUBBY WHO WRITES THE CHECKS.
##### and I know that I've over simplified what happened here within the last twenty years.
Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on September 18, 2015, 03:22:22 PM
As others have pointed out, Jacksonville culturally and our natural landscape is both southern and Floridian.
This should be our marketing niche.
Queen and sable palms intermixed with southern live oaks dripping with Spanish moss where the setting sun dapples just bought light threw the moss to light the tree up like a soft chandelier and magnolia blooms showing their glory in the full moonlights.
Beaches that are never crowded and whole areas in our region just north and south of JAX where on slightly chilly days you are the only person walking there for maybe a half mile with a few joggers or dog walkers passing by in the distance.
Our population is mostly transplants from southern states and the northeast which can great a nice blended culture of tradition and change.
We have a great ocean, a the great St Johns River, the Ortega River, nearby St Mary's River, Intreacoatal Waterway, marches, hidden coves and silent creeks, nearly Okeefenokee Swamp and Cumberland Island.
Hardly any local knows of the wonders that is White Oak Plantation Conservation and wildlife sanctuary.
Why do most locals over look these great assets and why do must southerners within a day's driving distance have no idea it's all here in one place?
+1000
Consolidation and sprawl are not the issue at all. It is a lack of leadership, a lack of a plan, and a told absence of marketing and branding.
Quote from: vicupstate on September 18, 2015, 04:05:32 PM
Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on September 18, 2015, 03:22:22 PM
As others have pointed out, Jacksonville culturally and our natural landscape is both southern and Floridian.
This should be our marketing niche.
Queen and sable palms intermixed with southern live oaks dripping with Spanish moss where the setting sun dapples just bought light threw the moss to light the tree up like a soft chandelier and magnolia blooms showing their glory in the full moonlights.
Beaches that are never crowded and whole areas in our region just north and south of JAX where on slightly chilly days you are the only person walking there for maybe a half mile with a few joggers or dog walkers passing by in the distance.
Our population is mostly transplants from southern states and the northeast which can great a nice blended culture of tradition and change.
We have a great ocean, a the great St Johns River, the Ortega River, nearby St Mary's River, Intreacoatal Waterway, marches, hidden coves and silent creeks, nearly Okeefenokee Swamp and Cumberland Island.
Hardly any local knows of the wonders that is White Oak Plantation Conservation and wildlife sanctuary.
Why do most locals over look these great assets and why do must southerners within a day's driving distance have no idea it's all here in one place?
+1000
Consolidation and sprawl are not the issue at all. It is a lack of leadership, a lack of a plan, and a told absence of marketing and branding.
Agree. Sprawl is the knee jerk answer for our problems, but with better leadership, management, and investment in quality of life, this thing could really take off.
I also think the Jags really do have a huge impact on this city. Everyone talks about joae days when he Jags were in the playoffs, the Super Bowl was here, and times were so good. A lot is riding on Shad right now, in my opinion.
I feel like this city is big, unlit firework just waiting to explode. And we're all just kinda sitting around...waiting and hoping...
Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on September 18, 2015, 03:22:22 PM
As others have pointed out, Jacksonville culturally and our natural landscape is both southern and Floridian.
This should be our marketing niche.
Queen and sable palms intermixed with southern live oaks dripping with Spanish moss where the setting sun dapples just bought light threw the moss to light the tree up like a soft chandelier and magnolia blooms showing their glory in the full moonlights.
Beaches that are never crowded and whole areas in our region just north and south of JAX where on slightly chilly days you are the only person walking there for maybe a half mile with a few joggers or dog walkers passing by in the distance.
Our population is mostly transplants from southern states and the northeast which can great a nice blended culture of tradition and change.
We have a great ocean, a the great St Johns River, the Ortega River, nearby St Mary's River, Intreacoatal Waterway, marches, hidden coves and silent creeks, nearly Okeefenokee Swamp and Cumberland Island.
Hardly any local knows of the wonders that is White Oak Plantation Conservation and wildlife sanctuary.
Why do most locals over look these great assets and why do must southerners within a day's driving distance have no idea it's all here in one place?
Easy forty minute drive west of my Avondale driveway; Jennings State Forest @ 15-20 minutes, on the way to the eastern edge of the Osceola National Forest to Camp Blanding/Ocala National Forest Conservation Corridor. Jacksonville's "Green Hedge".Bear country. Working timber lands adjacent to public lands complex. Private "hunt/recreation lease"- my own year round private camp, as if owning thousands of acres. Similar to the private camps sprinkled throughout the Northeast, New York state.
The choices are frustrating!........hmmm,head to The Woods or Talbot?? 8)
Consolidation effort was pure Inferiority Complex act out.
Quote from: vicupstate on September 18, 2015, 04:05:32 PM
Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on September 18, 2015, 03:22:22 PM
As others have pointed out, Jacksonville culturally and our natural landscape is both southern and Floridian.
Consolidation and sprawl are not the issue at all. It is a lack of leadership, a lack of a plan, and a told absence of marketing and branding.
I feel like this city is big, unlit firework just waiting to explode. And we're all just kinda sitting around...waiting and hoping...
Been waiting and hoping for 15 years now...
I doubt the "explosion" ever occurs. Improvements are one step at a time. I lived here 20+ years ago and the city as a whole and DT are much better than at that time. In 20 years I'm sure it will also be much different and better. The question is "leadership". What type of leadership we have will determine if we improve everyday life and thus make this a better place to live. We need leadership that will look at mass transit and multi modal transportation systems, increased DT residences, improved school system, upgrade our zoning ordinances, promote the arts and culture to name a few.
10/4
I would not want to live in a community hoping to "Explode". Done did that.It's not solely a concern for what will evolve in the future,but also living amongst those that do not really like who and what they are, and in fact what the community and landscape is, even though worthy of selling and promotion,all in the name of transformative "Growth".
Clay County obviously hated itself. For instance.
Inferiority Complex? A city? The people? Some of the people? Hmmmm.
My two cents. I've read the whole thread, and think it's a combination of things brought up. I've lived here 50 years next month and have 1) become frustrated over unrealized potential as I see us spin our wheels, traveling from city to city gathering ideas, and never coming up with, and implementing, a long term plan based on what we saw. We jump from one outlier idea to another, sure that will be "the one." 2) It seems as soon as we consolidated, we became obsessed with paving and building on as much of our 850 square miles as humanly possible. So, that mall was built in 1967? Or 1987? It needs a remodel? Heck no. Just leave it and go build a new Town Center. 3) The decision to go cheap. Why is St. Johns County growing? Because their taxes are enough to address some QOL issues we don't bother to address.
That said, I like it here. I just wish we'd get our act together.