8 Facts You Didn't Know About Our Beaches!
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/Jacksonville-Beach-2009/i-PLV6S43/0/L/P1280819-L.jpg)
Downtown isn't the only neighborhood in town that's interesting. Here's eight facts about the beaches that you probably didn't already know.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-aug-8-facts-you-didnt-know-about-our-beaches
Great article, thanks for the info!
Really informative--definitely a fun history lesson! Thank you!
That picture of beach blvd looking east is really awesome.
Where was the Hotel Continental located? The picture shows between 7th and 10th, but that doesnt tell me much.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1530128433_SgcS47N-M.jpg)
The hotel was located between 7th and 10th Streets, a few blocks north of the Beaches Town Center. There's a condo complex on the site today. The hotel's old concrete bulkhead and boardwalk still remain today.
Great article. I wish there was some commemoration of Manhattan Beach out at Hanna Park now. I think there could be a whole article on northeast Florida's historical black beaches.
This is great stuff. My wife and I believe the lack of a light-rail system to get from downtown to the beaches is about the ONLY thing that Jacksonville lacks. We were unaware that it used to exist! Thanks for sharing this.
Quote from: TimmyB on August 26, 2015, 02:42:50 PM
This is great stuff. My wife and I believe the lack of a light-rail system to get from downtown to the beaches is about the ONLY thing that Jacksonville lacks. We were unaware that it used to exist! Thanks for sharing this.
I have thought for some time that a rail line from DT to the beaches should follow Beach Blvd like it once did and not JTB like some others think. It is a more natural path and is a straight shot from downtown Jax Beach to downtown Jax. Let Butler continue to get clogged up. I think there are more rail oriented development and redevelopment opportunities along the Beach route as well. Could really help clean up the mess that is Beach Blvd eventually.
Quote from: CCMjax on August 26, 2015, 04:41:34 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on August 26, 2015, 02:42:50 PM
This is great stuff. My wife and I believe the lack of a light-rail system to get from downtown to the beaches is about the ONLY thing that Jacksonville lacks. We were unaware that it used to exist! Thanks for sharing this.
I have thought for some time that a rail line from DT to the beaches should follow Beach Blvd like it once did and not JTB like some others think. It is a more natural path and is a straight shot from downtown Jax Beach to downtown Jax. Let Butler continue to get clogged up. I think there are more rail oriented development and redevelopment opportunities along the Beach route as well. Could really help clean up the mess that is Beach Blvd eventually.
The city doesn't own the right of way, however. They do on JTB.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 26, 2015, 04:46:40 PM
Quote from: CCMjax on August 26, 2015, 04:41:34 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on August 26, 2015, 02:42:50 PM
This is great stuff. My wife and I believe the lack of a light-rail system to get from downtown to the beaches is about the ONLY thing that Jacksonville lacks. We were unaware that it used to exist! Thanks for sharing this.
I have thought for some time that a rail line from DT to the beaches should follow Beach Blvd like it once did and not JTB like some others think. It is a more natural path and is a straight shot from downtown Jax Beach to downtown Jax. Let Butler continue to get clogged up. I think there are more rail oriented development and redevelopment opportunities along the Beach route as well. Could really help clean up the mess that is Beach Blvd eventually.
The city doesn't own the right of way, however. They do on JTB.
So they have no say in what happens to it regarding commuter rail? What about Atlantic? I would assume same situation?
All of those highways (Atlantic, Beach, JTB, etc.) are FDOT facilities.
Quote from: CCMjax on August 26, 2015, 05:24:50 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on August 26, 2015, 04:46:40 PM
Quote from: CCMjax on August 26, 2015, 04:41:34 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on August 26, 2015, 02:42:50 PM
This is great stuff. My wife and I believe the lack of a light-rail system to get from downtown to the beaches is about the ONLY thing that Jacksonville lacks. We were unaware that it used to exist! Thanks for sharing this.
I have thought for some time that a rail line from DT to the beaches should follow Beach Blvd like it once did and not JTB like some others think. It is a more natural path and is a straight shot from downtown Jax Beach to downtown Jax. Let Butler continue to get clogged up. I think there are more rail oriented development and redevelopment opportunities along the Beach route as well. Could really help clean up the mess that is Beach Blvd eventually.
The city doesn't own the right of way, however. They do on JTB.
So they have no say in what happens to it regarding commuter rail? What about Atlantic? I would assume same situation?
What I mean is there's not enough space to put in a train without either taking out lanes, or buying more land for ROW. With JTB, additional ROW is already present.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 26, 2015, 05:32:40 PM
Quote from: CCMjax on August 26, 2015, 05:24:50 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on August 26, 2015, 04:46:40 PM
Quote from: CCMjax on August 26, 2015, 04:41:34 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on August 26, 2015, 02:42:50 PM
This is great stuff. My wife and I believe the lack of a light-rail system to get from downtown to the beaches is about the ONLY thing that Jacksonville lacks. We were unaware that it used to exist! Thanks for sharing this.
I have thought for some time that a rail line from DT to the beaches should follow Beach Blvd like it once did and not JTB like some others think. It is a more natural path and is a straight shot from downtown Jax Beach to downtown Jax. Let Butler continue to get clogged up. I think there are more rail oriented development and redevelopment opportunities along the Beach route as well. Could really help clean up the mess that is Beach Blvd eventually.
The city doesn't own the right of way, however. They do on JTB.
So they have no say in what happens to it regarding commuter rail? What about Atlantic? I would assume same situation?
What I mean is there's not enough space to put in a train without either taking out lanes, or buying more land for ROW. With JTB, additional ROW is already present.
In some cities like Charlotte they just ran it over previous lanes in some parts of downtown. Detroit and Phoenix also run their's over lanes in some sections but those are more tram/streetcars than commuter rail, I'm not sure if those lanes are functioning car lanes as well still. Beach already has 5 billion lanes in some sections. Theoretically you could get away with eliminating 2 or 3 lanes if replaced by another form of transportation like commuter rail. The goal would definitely not be to make Beach wider, god no! Not sure what it would do around the St. Nicholas area, it gets pretty tight in there.
An Atlantic route could service downtown, the shipyards/stadiums, Arlington and Neptune Beach but Neptune Beach is a little to far north to hit the densest parts of the beach. Maybe it could turn south on A1A to hit Jax Beach or just connect with the trolley.
I don't see the value in adding one along the Butler corridor. It already has the interstate. It would be cheaper and there are a lot of people and businesses on the Southside but I just don't see it servicing that area very efficiently at all. It's not as if you would be able to hop off the train and be at your destination, everything is so spread out in that area and well away from the ROW area. Also, it doesn't really end at any point of interest at the beach either, just a strip mall parking lot and no beach access easily accessible within a comfortable walking distance. Just my thoughts.
Won't happen for a while but planning needs to start for something like this now. My vote is for either Beach or Atlantic, not JTB.
If rail was run between DT and the Beaches, the value in the JTB corridor would be significantly higher ridership. There's no real critical mass of destinations between DT and the beaches on Atlantic or Beach, unless we start counting Walmarts and strip malls. With JTB, you could have stops within walking distance of Southpoint's office complexes, St. Luke's, Florida Blue/Deerwood Park, SJTC, UNF and Mayo Clinic. In a sense, it's a suburban corridor that's pretty similar to the San Diego Trolley's Green Line LRT.
If it is built, it should be extended to JIA and why not set it up to allow connecting St. Augustine (South) / Clay County and Fernandina Beach and Brunswick, GA (North) in the future ?
Quote from: Gunnar on August 27, 2015, 04:38:41 AM
If it is built, it should be extended to JIA and why not set it up to allow connecting St. Augustine (South) / Clay County and Fernandina Beach and Brunswick, GA (North) in the future ?
That would be the idea, but most cities typically start with one line going from one suburban location to downtown, like what Charlotte and Orlando did. Then eventually extend it and add other lines (Charlotte is currently extending theirs northward toward UNC Charlotte's campus). It is a slow process and one big question is what is the best starter route. My guess is there would be four major phases in Jax in no particular order or relation to each other . . . 1. Jax Beach to DT, 2. extension of that line from downtown to Orange Park, 3. St. Augustine to DT, 4. extension of that line north to JIA.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 26, 2015, 06:30:04 PM
If rail was run between DT and the Beaches, the value in the JTB corridor would be significantly higher ridership. There's no real critical mass of destinations between DT and the beaches on Atlantic or Beach, unless we start counting Walmarts and strip malls. With JTB, you could have stops within walking distance of Southpoint's office complexes, St. Luke's, Florida Blue/Deerwood Park, SJTC, UNF and Mayo Clinic. In a sense, it's a suburban corridor that's pretty similar to the San Diego Trolley's Green Line LRT.
It just seems like quite a hike from any sort of station on JTB to those destinations in the Southside in 95 degree heat and I'm wondering if people would even take it. Lots of people and places but it's kind of poorly laid out. There would have to be a lot of thought as to how to efficiently serve that area. You would have to have feeder buses, trolleys etc and by that point maybe the highway serves it better. Beach and Atlantic I think have the opportunity to have denser development right up on the corridor to more efficiently feed the line. I'm thinking hypothetically with zoning changes 30 years down the road what kind of development might start to evolve, not what it currently is with the Walmarts and stip centers. None of the routes are ideal right now in my opinion.
By the way, UNF stretches all the way up to Beach and that end of campus is kind of where the main events and most of the buildings are located. It kind of sucks because it really is between Beach and Butler and not right on either one. There is also FSCJ right across the street on Beach. DT Jax Beach is on Beach.
Quote from: CCMjax on August 27, 2015, 06:42:50 AM
Quote from: Gunnar on August 27, 2015, 04:38:41 AM
If it is built, it should be extended to JIA and why not set it up to allow connecting St. Augustine (South) / Clay County and Fernandina Beach and Brunswick, GA (North) in the future ?
That would be the idea, but most cities typically start with one line going from one suburban location to downtown, like what Charlotte and Orlando did. Then eventually extend it and add other lines (Charlotte is currently extending theirs northward toward UNC Charlotte's campus). It is a slow process and one big question is what is the best starter route. My guess is there would be four major phases in Jax in no particular order or relation to each other . . . 1. Jax Beach to DT, 2. extension of that line from downtown to Orange Park, 3. St. Augustine to DT, 4. extension of that line north to JIA.
Totally agree on the approach - I just think it's important to plan it with these extensions in mind from the start.
Wouldn't it make sense to start with JIA - DT (particularly the new transportation center with connections to local and long distance busses) - Beaches ? I feel that the connection to local transportation hubs is important in adding value for everyone in the region.
Quote from: CCMjax on August 27, 2015, 06:57:30 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 26, 2015, 06:30:04 PM
If rail was run between DT and the Beaches, the value in the JTB corridor would be significantly higher ridership. There's no real critical mass of destinations between DT and the beaches on Atlantic or Beach, unless we start counting Walmarts and strip malls. With JTB, you could have stops within walking distance of Southpoint's office complexes, St. Luke's, Florida Blue/Deerwood Park, SJTC, UNF and Mayo Clinic. In a sense, it's a suburban corridor that's pretty similar to the San Diego Trolley's Green Line LRT.
It just seems like quite a hike from any sort of station on JTB to those destinations in the Southside in 95 degree heat and I'm wondering if people would even take it. Lots of people and places but it's kind of poorly laid out. There would have to be a lot of thought as to how to efficiently serve that area. You would have to have feeder buses, trolleys etc and by that point maybe the highway serves it better. Beach and Atlantic I think have the opportunity to have denser development right up on the corridor to more efficiently feed the line. I'm thinking hypothetically with zoning changes 30 years down the road what kind of development might start to evolve, not what it currently is with the Walmarts and stip centers. None of the routes are ideal right now in my opinion.
By the way, UNF stretches all the way up to Beach and that end of campus is kind of where the main events and most of the buildings are located. It kind of sucks because it really is between Beach and Butler and not right on either one. There is also FSCJ right across the street on Beach. DT Jax Beach is on Beach.
With LRT (building commuter rail would not make sense between DT and the beaches), your stop spacing will be roughly every 0.5 to 1 mile. JTB has actual destinations that could align with stop locations. Beach and Atlantic are strip mall central and will be for the foreseeable future. Also, it's more important for a rail corridor to directly penetrate as many pedestrian scale spots as possible, than running in a straight line. Thus, to get to DT Jax Beach, just run it north up San Pablo or 3rd Street.
Btw, yes I do agree that none of these corridors are ideal right now. Rail between DT and the beach is pretty unrealistic in a small community like ours. The distance is too great and the density is too low. The Green Line works in San Diego because that community spent the first 20 years building up and establishing an efficient LRT network in its core, before attempting to tackle/connect the burbs. Below, a few pics of San Diego's suburban green line:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1430052752_z2x4VGZ-M.jpg)
stop at the Fashion Valley Mall parking lot.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1430052208_xzS64Qp-M.jpg)
Stop across the street from Hazard Center.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1430051505_Ts2bJwD-M.jpg)
A model of a stop and 950-unit Promenade Rio Vista Apartments TOD.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1430050701_rxcNtZQ-M.jpg)
Promenade Rio Vista Apartments in real life now.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1430050924_pdvmM2C-M.jpg)
LRT line and shared use path bridge over a road like Southside Boulevard.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1430048831_4Jmdnv3-M.jpg)
Green Line terminates into a shopping center.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1430048941_WKXKBHp-M.jpg)
Santee Trolley Square stop.
Quote from: Gunnar on August 27, 2015, 07:45:14 AM
Quote from: CCMjax on August 27, 2015, 06:42:50 AM
Quote from: Gunnar on August 27, 2015, 04:38:41 AM
If it is built, it should be extended to JIA and why not set it up to allow connecting St. Augustine (South) / Clay County and Fernandina Beach and Brunswick, GA (North) in the future ?
That would be the idea, but most cities typically start with one line going from one suburban location to downtown, like what Charlotte and Orlando did. Then eventually extend it and add other lines (Charlotte is currently extending theirs northward toward UNC Charlotte's campus). It is a slow process and one big question is what is the best starter route. My guess is there would be four major phases in Jax in no particular order or relation to each other . . . 1. Jax Beach to DT, 2. extension of that line from downtown to Orange Park, 3. St. Augustine to DT, 4. extension of that line north to JIA.
Totally agree on the approach - I just think it's important to plan it with these extensions in mind from the start.
Wouldn't it make sense to start with JIA - DT (particularly the new transportation center with connections to local and long distance busses) - Beaches ? I feel that the connection to local transportation hubs is important in adding value for everyone in the region.
Not enough dense populations toward and around the airport. Travelling downtown from the airport really isn't bad right now. Same reason Charlotte did not decide to connect their airport first. And they have a much busier airport and downtown than we do.
I knew someone with 500 acres near the airport and he was so upset at dashed development aspirations.
And also the person that aspired for the development of his Talbot State Park inholding....yep.....right there on the Duval/Nassau line area,the northerly tip of Talbot State Park. ("little" or "big" Talbot???...I am still not grasping the titles,though I know the area intimately 8) )
The plans called for a Marina. I worked behind the scenes....what a crock the proposal was.......destroying the very destination of so many boaters.
Both of these guys complained mightily about government intervention and tree huggers.
Good reminder that our regional Beaches landscape is the result of past vision,battles.
Thank you,for instance,for Lenore McCullaugh. (Talbot)
Quote from: Know Growth on October 06, 2015, 10:11:41 PM
...northerly tip of Talbot State Park. ("little" or "big" Talbot???...I am still not grasping the titles,though I know the area intimately 8) )
I think Big Talbot island is actually the smaller park / beach (with all the dead trees on it) and Little Talbot island is the bigger park / beach. That's at least how I try to remember it since I would always mix the two up.
In any case, I am glad they have not managed to destroy that area yet like they did between Jax Beach and St. Augustine.
Quote from: Gunnar on October 07, 2015, 08:58:16 AM
Quote from: Know Growth on October 06, 2015, 10:11:41 PM
...northerly tip of Talbot State Park. ("little" or "big" Talbot???...I am still not grasping the titles,though I know the area intimately 8) )
I think Big Talbot island is actually the smaller park / beach (with all the dead trees on it) and Little Talbot island is the bigger park / beach. That's at least how I try to remember it since I would always mix the two up.
In any case, I am glad they have not managed to destroy that area yet like they did between Jax Beach and St. Augustine.
Sort of. The "Boneyard Beach" access is a relatively small part of the larger Big Talbot Island State Park.
Seems like I was judging it by the beach size only then :)
Periodic erosion and the associated renourishment projects is a necessity brought on by the construction of the jetties in the 19th century. Even if we scaled back on construction near the shoreline, we'd still have to dredge and renourish. It's possible bulkheads may be in our future.
Quote from: stephendare on October 07, 2015, 03:18:03 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 07, 2015, 03:17:20 PM
Periodic erosion and the associated renourishment projects is a necessity brought on by the construction of the jetties in the 19th century. Even if we scaled back on construction near the shoreline, we'd still have to dredge and renourish. It's possible bulkheads may be in our future.
Have you seen the flooding in riverside and springfield lately? the dog park has been a mudbog for two weeks.
Yeah, San Marco has been pretty awful too.