Another billion dollar development project was announced today by the Port of Tampa Bay authority.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/port-tampa-bay-to-unveil-vision-for-land-in-channel-district/2241164
Along with the previously announced development plan by Jeff Vinik, owner of the Tampa Bay Lightning hockey franchise, this will bring total redevelopment of the downtown Tampa waterfront. If both of these projects can get built in the next 10-15 years the skyline and feel of downtown will change greatly.
How will this impact AAF and their decision on when or if to expand to Tampa? Since FECI is heavily invested in real estate development, and the Port of Tampa Bay is looking for private developers to join this project, would Flagler Development Corp be interested in investing in downtown Tampa in a major way? This opens the door for a developer like FECI/Flagler to come in. Would this affect their calculation on when or if to expand AAF to Tampa?
Does Jacksonville have anything similar to the $2.7B in projects planned for Tampa? I hope this will encourage AAF to look favorably on Tampa.
Nice. I hope it works out. Jax has a few major developments planned like the Shipyards and Healthy Town. St. Augustine and Daytona have their fair share of proposed developments along AAF Jax Segment LLC's corridor as well. Like them, I suspect the market can't support everything envisioned and the timeline for full development will wind up being a lot longer than 15 years. With that said, I don't think any of these developments (Tampa, Jax or Daytona, etc.) will have a real impact on if and where AAF decides to expand next.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 13, 2015, 09:13:02 PM
Nice. I hope it works out. Jax has a few major developments planned like the Shipyards and Healthy Town. St. Augustine and Daytona have their fair share of proposed developments along AAF Jax Segment LLC's corridor as well. Like them, I suspect the market can't support everything envisioned and the timeline for full development will wind up being a lot longer than 15 years. With that said, I don't think any of these developments (Tampa, Jax or Daytona, etc.) will have a real impact on if and where AAF decides to expand next.
It looks like Jacksonville also has some good projects in the works too. I looked at the Shipyards website and it seems like a pretty good plan. Not many cities are as fortunate as Jacksonville or Tampa are to attract the investment required for major projects such as these.
The one thing that makes the proposed Tampa Bay Ports project different, is that they are going to solicit proposals from several developers that will be asked to construct the project. Other projects already have a prime developer who is in charge. That is why I think FECI/Flagler might be considering this project as it is still open to any interested parties. It will be interesting to see what happens to the AAF expansion plans to Tampa if Flagler Development (or any FECI related company) is selected. Or will AAF want to have their station close to any major development here?
Quote from: Brian_Tampa on August 13, 2015, 09:03:28 PM
How will this impact AAF and their decision on when or if to expand to Tampa? Since FECI is heavily invested in real estate development, and the Port of Tampa Bay is looking for private developers to join this project, would Flagler Development Corp be interested in investing in downtown Tampa in a major way? This opens the door for a developer like FECI/Flagler to come in. Would this affect their calculation on when or if to expand AAF to Tampa?
I don't believe this will affect AAF's decision-making process at all. Particularly because they don't own any right of way west of Orlando. They would have to build their own tracks/lines, which would be a massive capital investment and contradicts their business model. There would also be local opposition. People think the Treasure Coast anti-AAF groups have been bad. I expect most of Polk and eastern Hillsborough counties would literally rise in revolt. lol
As far as the actual "investment" in downtown Tampa is concerned, nothing has happened yet. Even Vinik's plans, backed by Cascade and other "unconventional" financing, is nowhere near getting out of the ground. I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but I am very tired of starting the party after the first press conference and then waiting years to see what, if anything, will actually happen. Tampa is certainly not unique in this respect, but it is VERY bad about hype and patting itself on the back too soon. Let's just be patient and see what happens.
And downtown Tampa is still not a "destination" even with all that new investment. There is no transit system. There is no connectivity whatsoever to the airport, USF, or other employment/entertainment centers. The area is sort of walkable now, but you really do have to know where you are going and be willing to go for a hike. In the sun. And/or rain. It might get there someday, but it's definitely not there yet. AAF knows this. Why spend billions fighting your way west, laying every inch of track yourself, just to put up a tower or three in Tampa? It makes much more sense, given their business model, to stick to the proven destinations that exist now and are located along the ROW they already own. Honestly, HSR in 2010/2011 was our shot and we blew it.
Quote from: Adam12 on August 13, 2015, 10:31:44 PM
Honestly, HSR in 2010/2011 was our shot and we Voldemort blew it.
Fixed it for ya. 8)
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 13, 2015, 11:56:33 PM
Quote from: Adam12 on August 13, 2015, 10:31:44 PM
Honestly, HSR in 2010/2011 was our shot and we Voldemort blew it.
Fixed it for ya. 8)
I appreciate the sentiment. But the governor approved Sunrail over the same Tea Party protests and exhortations that saw HSR cancelled. I believe that is because Orlando's leadership came together as a region and argued for Sunrail. They fought for it. Tampa Bay's leadership did nothing, they just watched it happen. I certainly could be mistaken though.
Hmm. Regional leadership also rallied for HSR. I think giving all that cash to CSX and the plans they had to upgrade their system had more to do with Scott favoring Sunrail over HSR.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 13, 2015, 09:13:02 PM
Nice. I hope it works out. Jax has a few major developments planned like the Shipyards and Healthy Town. St. Augustine and Daytona have their fair share of proposed developments along AAF Jax Segment LLC's corridor as well. Like them, I suspect the market can't support everything envisioned and the timeline for full development will wind up being a lot longer than 15 years. With that said, I don't think any of these developments (Tampa, Jax or Daytona, etc.) will have a real impact on if and where AAF decides to expand next.
What developments are going on in St. Augustine?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Tampa-2014/i-jhK6x2k/0/L/DSCF4692-L.jpg)
Old shipyard property as of December 2014.
The renderings are nice. It'a very interesting concept for an underutilized site. A chuck of this is also a former shipyard. I wonder how Tampa plans to handle cleaning the property up? Also, Tampa's cruise terminal is limited by the Skyway like ours is limited by the Dames Point Bridge. I wonder what they are doing to deal with this particular situation and how it could impact these plans?
(http://www.tampaport.com/userfiles/files/High%20Res%20illustrative.jpg)
(http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah277/jordanaeddy/porttampabay_zps2e5oidqw.jpg)
(http://www.tampaport.com/userfiles/files/Tampa10Cam0302.jpg)
(http://www.tampaport.com/userfiles/files/Tampa10Cam0502.jpg)
More here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1844417
^What the hell? Did anybody else notice what looks like mountains in the background?
Anyway, looks very modern Miami. I don't like the slender look of the buildings, too feminine looking. What ever happened to masculine looking buildings that reflect the strength of the city? Maybe that's the Chicago in me talking. Seems the architects have gotten all metrosexual in their approach to building design.
^ you didn't know that Pinellas County had large hills?
Looks like they are attempting to build the High Line there, too. Sometimes I wonder about the thought process that goes into these pie in the sky proposals. But a little more money has been spent on conceptual design for this than for the Shipyards (these are still definitely just massing studies for sure...not actual final renderings of something that would go there - the architects "borrowed" from countless other designs that may or may not have ended up being built elsewhere). Whoever right-sizes their ideas/proposals for the site first will get something going first.
How is it dealing with the City of Tampa as compared to the City of Jacksonville? Is Tampa run as poorly as Jax when it comes to getting projects off the ground and working with private developers or making decisions about where to move facilities and how to integrate them?
Quote from: thelakelander on August 14, 2015, 11:50:51 AM
The renderings are nice. It'a very interesting concept for an underutilized site. A chuck of this is also a former shipyard. I wonder how Tampa plans to handle cleaning the property up? Also, Tampa's cruise terminal is limited by the Skyway like ours is limited by the Dames Point Bridge. I wonder what they are doing to deal with this particular situation and how it could impact these plans?
Good question about cleaning it up; I haven't seen any mention of that. I don't know if that means they are unaware of the issue or sorely underestimating it. As for the cruise ships, they plan to demolish Terminal 6 and concentrate all cruise ship traffic in Terminal 3:
"The project would continue north, with creation of two residential towers up to 75 stories, demolition of Cruise Ship Terminal 6, then expansion of Terminal 3 to accommodate two ships at a time, a 7-acre park, roughly the size of Curtis Hixon Park in downtown Tampa, as well as various retail and office spots.
The Channel District Vision plan acknowledges that the port has no plans to move its cruise ship terminals to Pinellas County to accommodate new and much larger cruise ships currently unable to travel under the Skyway bridge to reach Port Tampa Bay.
Anderson said market studies show the cruise ship business continuing to grow here over the next few years including the addition of new cruise ships and ships using Tampa as a port of call. But that business is expected to taper off within five to 10 years from some 970,000 passengers to 500,000-700,000 passengers."
http://tbo.com/news/business/port-tampa-bay-announces-plans-for-channel-district-land-20150813/
Doesn't sound like they plan to do anything else about it. I think they are giving up on cruise ships.
Quote from: prahaboheme on August 14, 2015, 11:47:08 AM
What developments are going on in St. Augustine?
No mega site development projects, given the compact nature of the historic district. However, there are several infill projects being proposed. For example, there's a good amount of hotel projects being proposed or coming online. Here's a few:
http://www.jalaramhotels.com/future-development.html
Some others include a Westin Hotel Resort on the former San Sebastian Inland Harbor site (http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/big-development-coming-st-augustine/ng62X/), the Ponce Hotel and a Wyndham Garden Hotel.
Daytona's major projects include a major expansion of the International Speedway, One Daytona (mixed-use development across the street from the speedway), big expansion plans at Daytona State, ERAU and Bethune Cookman and mixed-use high-rises at the beach, like Hard Rock.
(http://bayshore.com/files/5913/9059/0481/4.jpg)
Hard Rock(http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/agents/joycemarsh/files/One%20Daytona%204.jpg)
One Daytona
Thanks for the info!
I'm always interested in St Augustine's infill projects.