QuoteMan Shot at Springfield Pub
(http://www.firstcoastnews.com/genthumb.ashx?e=3&h=240&w=320&i=/assetpool/images/080617011342_061608_shanty1.jpg)
JACKSONVILLE, FL -- A man has been taken to the hospital after a shooting at a bar.
The shooting happened at the Shanty Town Pub, located on Main Street near East 8th Street.
Police won't say whether the shooting happened inside the bar or outside.
No word on the victim's condition.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/news-article.aspx?storyid=111679
then...obviously it happened INSIDE the pub. that's scary. wonder why the police are being so secretive on the victim's condition. this is usually readily available information. did any of you SFers hear the shots??
actually, i pray it was no one we know who was shot there.
It was outside the bar. One of the well known, well liked regulars walked outside. From what I have heard, it looks like he may have inadvertently broken up a robbery attempt on Shanty. He is awake, but on a respirator in critical care at Shands.
Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers...
Did they catch the shooter?
abandoned porch is on the back of a house that faces 7th b/w Main and Laura. it backs up to the building on the sw corner of 7th & Main that Pier Avenue Properties (Holbrook) owns. Both of these buildings are vacant, or SHOULD be.
can we stop arguing that point and move on to getting our police presence to handle the out-of-school, criminal element that is stopping back into Springfield to make trouble?
there is NO EXCUSE for the dropped-trou antics stephendare describes on the corner of 7th & Main, and as many police patrols as there are in the community, they should have been on that, or any other loiterers, like flies on _ _ _ _ before any roving groups were able to get out of control (planned robbery attempt!?!?!?!)
emergency # is 911. JSO's non-emergency # is 630-0500. USE 'EM!!!
This story (specifically Stephen's description of the out of control atmosphere on Main), made me think of a completely unrelated story - unless you consider how different city's deal with crime - about a sheriff in Arizona (Joe Arpaio) that is very aggressive when it comes to crime and is able to save the city money at the same time. The guy is extremely controversial with his methods but he is also extremely effective and well-liked. He has attacked high crime areas with his resources and made examples of criminals in the process. With our city's virtual anarchy on the streets, apathy of our leaders and their struggling to make ends meet funds-wise consider the following:
QuoteChanges to jail operations
Arpaio believes that inmates should be treated as harshly as legally possible to emphasize the punishment aspect of their incarceration. Thus, upon his initial election, Arpaio began instituting the controversial changes for which he would later become noted.
Arpaio began to serve inmates surplus food (mainly outdated and oxidized green bologna)[2] and limited meals to twice daily. Meal costs would be reduced to 90 cents per day; as of 2007 Arpaio states that he has managed to reduce costs to 30 cents per day. Certain food items were banned from the county jail, mainly coffee (which also reduced "coffee attacks" on guards), but later salt and pepper were removed from the jail (at a purported taxpayer savings of $20,000/year).
Arpaio banned smoking in the county jail. He also removed pornographic magazines (the ban was later upheld in court) and weightlifting equipment. Entertainment was limited to G-rated movies; the cable TV system (mandated by court order) was severely blocked by Arpaio to limit viewing to those stations Arpaio deems to be "educational", mainly Animal Planet, Disney Channel, The Weather Channel, A&E, CNN, and the local government access channel.
Arpaio also instituted a program for inmates to study while in jail and to try to recover from drug abuse. Hard Knocks High lays claim as the only approved high school program in any American jail.[citation needed] Another jail program, called ALPHA, is aimed solely at getting inmates away from drug abuse.
In October 2005, Arpaio started mandatory two-week English classes for non-English-speaking inmates at his jails. Classes last two hours a day. The curriculum comprises the three branches of government, how a bill becomes law, state government, law enforcement and court services, and jailhouse "situational" terminology. At the end of the two-week course, inmates are required to take a test to see how well they have learned about American government, the words to God Bless America, and the communication of health and safety needs. In response to critics, Arpaio responded, "These inmates happen to be incarcerated in the United States of America and in Maricopa County where I run the jails. We speak English here, not foreign languages."
In February 2007, Arpaio instituted an in-house radio station, KJOE, which broadcasts classical music, opera, Frank Sinatra hits, obscenity-free patriotic music, and educational programming, from the basement of the county jail. The station airs four hours each day, five days a week. In March 2007, the Maricopa County Jail hosted "Inmate Idol"[3], a takeoff on the popular TV show.
[edit] Chain gangs
Shortly after taking office, Arpaio reinstituted chain gangs, the controversial form of inmate labor which had been virtually eliminated in the United States.
Arpaio believes that chain gangs are not a form of punishment, but of rehabilitation. Inmates who are low-risk but with a history of jail incidents can apply to serve as free labor. Inmates work eight-hours a day, six days a week (Sundays off), mainly outside. The inmates wear traditional black-and-white striped uniforms (see below for more details) with a cap to protect against the desert heat. Inmates perform such tasks as creating fire breaks, removing trash, and burying deceased indigent persons in the county cemetery.
Arpaio also expanded the chain gang concept by instituting a female chain gang.[4] Female inmates work seven hours a day (7 AM to 2 PM), six days a week. Arpaio has also instituted the world's first all-juvenile chain gang.[5]
[edit] Pink underwear
One of Arpaio's most noted changes was the introduction of pink underwear. Arpaio noted that the traditional white underwear, labeled with Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, was being smuggled out of the jails and sold on the streets. Arpaio thus had the underwear dyed pink, believing that pink is not considered a "macho" color, and would not be stolen. Once the public learned of the change, requests came in for orders, and Arpaio began selling customized pink boxers (with the Maricopa County Sheriff's logo and "Go Joe") as a fund-raiser for sheriff's operations.
Arpaio subsequently introduced pink handcuffs among sheriff's deputies, who were taking the traditional silver-colored ones[6]. Later, when Arpaio learned that the color pink has a known psychological calming effect, he began dyeing sheets, socks, towels, and all other fabric items in pink.
The outer uniform is not pink, but traditional black-and-white. This was part of another Arpaio-instituted change. One day, allegedly, Arpaio thought he saw an inmate escapee in the then-existing sea-green inmate uniform outside the jail (it turned out to be a hospital worker in scrubs). Later, he noted that the orange uniforms of the chain gangs were similar to uniforms used by county workers (the orange being needed for safety). Believing that inmates should be easily identifiable should they escape, Arpaio re-instituted the traditional black-and-white inmate uniforms, which even with the advent of everything else being pink has not changed.
[edit] Tent City
The most noted, and controversial, of Arpaio's ideas was the set-up of "Tent City" as an extension of the Maricopa County Jail ( [show location on an interactive map] 33°25′40″N 112°07′26″W / 33.42778, -112.12389 (Maricopa County Jail)).
When Arpaio took office, inmates were routinely being released early due to overcrowding. Arpaio believed that "courts, not head count" should determine when an inmate is released, and that no officer should be deterred from making an arrest for fear that the inmate would be released due to jail overcrowding.
However, a new jail would have cost Maricopa County taxpayers around US$70 million. So instead, Arpaio obtained used tents from the military, and established Tent City in a parking lot adjacent to one of the jail facilities. As an announcement to future inmates that they should not expect early release upon overcrowding, but more tents instead, Arpaio added a (pink neon) "Vacancy" sign to the outside of Tent City. The original sign was destroyed in an inmate riot, but was quickly replaced. A second Tent City was opened in 1996 adjacent to another jail facility, and houses female inmates.
During the summer of 2003, when outside temperatures exceeded 110 °F (43 °C), which is higher than average, Arpaio said to complaining inmates, "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and the soldiers are living in tents and they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your mouths."[7] Inmates were given permission to wear only their pink underwear.
Tent City has been criticized by groups contending these are violations of human and constitutional rights[who?], but has been simultaneously praised by those favoring Arpaio's "get tough on crime" approach[who?].
In response to requests, the Sheriff's office offers group tours of its unique and controversial Tent City. In addition, Arpaio has instituted "S.M.A.R.T." Tents (Shocking Mainstream Adolescents into Resisting Temptation), a voluntary program for middle-school students who are bussed to an area adjacent to Tent City and, for the next 24 hours, are shown the reality of jail life.
[edit] Underwear march
In 2005, inmates were walked from neighboring jails to the newly opened Lower Buckeye Jail, wearing only their boxers and sandals so that they could not hide contraband during transport. This occurrence was reported widely in the media and has been referred to as the underwear march.[8]
"It's a security issue," Arpaio said. "If you let them wear their clothes, they can conceal the fake keys and everything else.[9]
Because of the media spectacle resulting from the underwear march, it would also be regarded as a perp walk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio)
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/arpaio.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/arpaio.asp)
I do not necessarily condone everything the guy does but you have to at least admire some of it and I think some of it could be applied to Jax. It poses the question: Could Sheriff Rutherford be more aggressive with our out of control crime problem? Or is he too soft? I don't buy the whole we don't have enough cops issue. More cops are NOT going to magically solve our crime problem. You do what you can with the resources you have. It's time to get tough and get
creative. We're losing this city to criminals and our "leaders" continue to look the other way. Time for a
different strategy.
Just my two Lincolns...
if Jennifer Holbrooke lives there at 7th b/w Main and Laura, she probably heard the shots and may have even seen something. i wonder if she has been contacted/interviewed by police?
did anyone see the police interviewing ANY witnesses??
this whole issue is sad. DTP...please keep us updated on anything additional you hear.
No, they did not.
Will do. I know more, but dont want to post it until I hear from the people closest to the victim. I can say he is awake and in critical care at Shands.
This is my roomate. His condition is very serious. Please pray for him.
Ok, It was posted over at SPAR, so I can relay it now.
The victim, commonly known as Boston Tom (great guy, btw) walked out of the front door at shanty. They think he spooked someone getting ready to go in and rob shanty. He took three bullets, one grazed his neck, and two to the abdomen. One of the bullets that hit him in the gut lodged near his spine, possibly causing paralysis.
Please keep Tom in your well wishes as he goes through this.
i hope they catch the perp who did this. utterly ridiculous. Fsujax, we are praying for Tom. take care and take heart that God causes all things to work for good for those that love God.
Stephen, thanks for the offering of help. I am relieved to hear that they may have captured these thugs.
QuoteThere is something you can do to help Janet so she can spend time at the hospital with Tom. She had just rescued a male red-nose pit mix who is passive/shy but sweet with lots of tail wagging. He didn’t like the crate at the vet but Janet was about to work with him on that and we don’t know how he is with cats but he gets along fine with her neighbor’s dog thru the fence. He wants human company and seems to be afraid of the dark.
We need to find a foster home for him TONIGHT. SACARC has had him to the vet for vaccinations and deworming, etc. Our usual foster homes are full to the gills and then some. Is there anyone available or can you put out feelers to everyone you know? We don’t want to put him back out on the street and neither Janet or Tom would want that either.â€
could you have any interested parties email sacarc at sacarc@gmail.com if they can help.
thanks!
From the T/u:
http://news.jacksonville.com/justin/2008/06/17/shooting-outside-springfield-bar-leaves-one-injured/
Thank God they caught them, so they can't do this to somebody else. Thanks for the updates Stephen!
I went to the clerk of courts website (where you can view all criminal and civil cases against a person) here:
https://showcase.duvalclerk.com/searchCases.aspx
to pull up the record on these two pieces of work...
Here is the record from Mr. Curtis Lee Jones III. An OUTSTANDING violent criminal and drug dealer.
2005 - AGGRAVATED BATTERY
2005 - BATTERY
2006 - PURCHASE OR POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE W/ INTENT TO SELL/PURCHASE/MANUFACTURE/DELIVER
- RESISTING OFFICER WITHOUT VIOLENCE TOHIS OR HER PERSON
2006 - POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE PARAPHERNALIA
2007 - OFFERING FOR PROSTITUTION, LEWDNESS ORASSIGNATION
- POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE PARAPHERNALIA
And here is the Mr. Nicholas McCray's record...
2006 - PEDESTRIAN VIOLTO TRAF CTRL DEVICE
2007 - VIOLATION OF CHILDREN'S CURFEW ORDINANCE
2007 - POSSESSION OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS BY PERSON UNDER AGE 18 - SMOKING - CIVIL
2007 - SLOW BIKE FAILTO RIDE RIGHT CURB
2008 - MAKING THREATS
- OBSTRUCTING PUBLIC PASSAGEWAYS
As you can see, the older gentleman was probably the ring leader. The younger fellow was well on his way (with the upgrade to "Making Threats" in 08) to "Thug Graduation".
thug life out.
White people too Stephen. White people too....
real issue here is these guys were not stopped BEFORE the shooting. I am pretty sure someone drove past them at least a few times prior to this act. Drive by policing does not work, especially in this area. The attempted robbery of the Shell station last week is a perfect example, several squad cars, dogs, and the bird and they still could only catch one of them. With all our alley's and houses it is easy to lose the police when you are on foot and they are in a car. I give JSO credit for catching these thugs so quickly, it is just too bad no one could have stopped them prior to Tom being shot. We need foot patrols, if an officer had been walking down that street, or been on Laura or Main think how quickly they could have been there, or the fact these idiots would have seen them and not even tried.
Did anyone call in about the people you saw on 7th?
Quote from: thebrokenforum on June 17, 2008, 11:04:44 AM
It poses the question: Could Sheriff Rutherford be more aggressive with our out of control crime problem? Or is he too soft?
YES!!! Dude is very very very soft. Nat Glover did some of the things this Arizona guy did. Like the weight room and magazine thing. The jail downtown doesn't have TVs either. Dude is soft and so is Payton.
I'm so sorry to hear about this. I will pray and pass the request to my church as well.
Quote from: stephendare on June 17, 2008, 01:44:53 PM
Quote from: Downtown Dweller on June 17, 2008, 01:33:49 PM
White people too Stephen. White people too....
real issue here is these guys were not stopped BEFORE the shooting. I am pretty sure someone drove past them at least a few times prior to this act. Drive by policing does not work, especially in this area. The attempted robbery of the Shell station last week is a perfect example, several squad cars, dogs, and the bird and they still could only catch one of them. With all our alley's and houses it is easy to lose the police when you are on foot and they are in a car. I give JSO credit for catching these thugs so quickly, it is just too bad no one could have stopped them prior to Tom being shot. We need foot patrols, if an officer had been walking down that street, or been on Laura or Main think how quickly they could have been there, or the fact these idiots would have seen them and not even tried.
Did anyone call in about the people you saw on 7th?
you know, dd, when boomtown was there, we paid for all the alleys to be lit with the JEA security lights. Since weve been gone, its all dark again.
John and I always felt that the city should have sponsored the security lights, and this is a good reason why.
I agree, I know myself and several neighbors individually turned in lights on Perry that were too dark or not working. The city responded by telling me the lights are not there for the safety of the home owners.... what a joke, I don’t even live on Perry, it is the general safety of the neighborhood, homeowner, driver, bicyclist, pedestrian, whomever happens to be on the street at any given time...
Quote from: Driven1 on June 17, 2008, 01:17:16 PM
I went to the clerk of courts website (where you can view all criminal and civil cases against a person) here:
https://showcase.duvalclerk.com/searchCases.aspx
to pull up the record on these two pieces of work...
Here is the record from Mr. Curtis Lee Jones III. An OUTSTANDING violent criminal and drug dealer.
2005 - AGGRAVATED BATTERY
2005 - BATTERY
2006 - PURCHASE OR POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE W/ INTENT TO SELL/PURCHASE/MANUFACTURE/DELIVER
- RESISTING OFFICER WITHOUT VIOLENCE TOHIS OR HER PERSON
2006 - POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE PARAPHERNALIA
2007 - OFFERING FOR PROSTITUTION, LEWDNESS ORASSIGNATION
- POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE PARAPHERNALIA
And here is the Mr. Nicholas McCray's record...
2006 - PEDESTRIAN VIOLTO TRAF CTRL DEVICE
2007 - VIOLATION OF CHILDREN'S CURFEW ORDINANCE
2007 - POSSESSION OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS BY PERSON UNDER AGE 18 - SMOKING - CIVIL
2007 - SLOW BIKE FAILTO RIDE RIGHT CURB
2008 - MAKING THREATS
- OBSTRUCTING PUBLIC PASSAGEWAYS
As you can see, the older gentleman was probably the ring leader. The younger fellow was well on his way (with the upgrade to "Making Threats" in 08) to "Thug Graduation".
thug life out.
Are those arrests or convictions? If they are convictions, why is Thug #1 not in prison?
QuoteWithout real action this problem will increase.
We need someone with an aggressive mindset. Whatever became of the Guardian Angels? I heard exactly one news story about them and then...*poof* nothing.
Kudos to JSO for catching the guys. Listen, our police officers are trained well at what they do but they can only do so much under their current leadership. They do what they are told to do by their superiors. Fire and Rescue is shorthanded as well but they get the job done. You never hear about people not being responded to who need to go to the hospital nor do you hear about houses burning because no have trucks responded. Fire and Rescue also derives help from the numerous private EMS services in the city when they need help. If people were not being responded to for medical emergencies it would be an outrage. I see no reason why the police are not held to the same standard. You cannot tell me a single officer did not see the guys on the corner dropping their pants?
What we need are police foot patrols with nightsticks. Give the young idiots a little street justice with a baton to the head a few times and they will think twice about hanging out on street corners looking for trouble.
Quote from: stephendare on June 17, 2008, 12:05:58 PM
triclops. any reason people think it was an intended robbery?
Someone just said that there has been a string of these over the past week or so? Does anyone know if that is true?
btw. Everyone should meet at Shantytown and do a benefit for Tom and Janet, his girlfriend.
Tom works at Chew, and there will still be bills to be paid.
I'll be there. I want to go by later today if they're open and see how everyone's doing. Ian , Maryanne & the whole shanty crew have had some rough drunks to deal with in the past, but nothing like this.
QuoteWhat we need are police foot patrols with nightsticks. Give the young idiots a little street justice with a baton to the head a few times and they will think twice about hanging out on street corners looking for trouble.
That's an excellent point. The questions is why
don't we have foot patrols in higher crime areas?
Quote from: RiversideGator on June 17, 2008, 02:45:47 PM
What we need are police foot patrols with nightsticks. Give the young idiots a little street justice with a baton to the head a few times and they will think twice about hanging out on street corners looking for trouble.
This would be police brutality RiversideGator. ACLU would be all over this.
Quote from: stephendare on June 17, 2008, 02:34:10 PM
Anyone know when the next shadco meeting is?
Usually the 4th Tuesday every month at 6pm at Health Center 515 W. Sixth St.
We are zone 1 sector B.
http://www.coj.net/Departments/Sheriffs+Office/Patrol+Division/Zone+1.htm
Stephen, the rash of robberies being referred to are Speedway convenience store at 8th & Perry a few weeks ago, Shell station at 8th & Boulevard a few nights ago and now this.
And the shitbags who did this, at least one of them lives over in the 600 block of Phelps.
Just wanted everyone to know that Tom's mother posted on Jacksonville.com, please go to that site and offer her some words of encouragement. She is currently in Las Vegas and may have a hard time getting to Jax.
From Janet on SPAR's discussion board.
QuoteHi all,
Another quick post because I should really get some sleep but at this point it's just ridiculous. I just wanted everyone to know that I am overwhelmed with the support that everyone has offerred. It just proves again that there is no place in the world quite like Springfield.
And if you want to do something for me and Tom, seriously, support our friends at Shanty. Raise a glass in Tom's name and let the world know that this is STILL a great place to live.
Thank you all again.
-Janet
http://www.sparcouncil.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3790&start=30
images of the two arrested:
http://www.sparcouncil.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=30897#p30897
$hitbags arrested...
(http://www.sparcouncil.org/forums/download/file.php?id=297)
(http://www.sparcouncil.org/forums/download/file.php?id=296)
I am happily surprised and very thankful that JSO got these guys. I am also proud of the citizens who spoke up with enough information to aid in the apprehension. All too often people do not want to get involved or are fearful of retaliation. Good job to those who stood up and made a difference. This same attitude can help with a PROactive approach to law enforcement rather than a REactive approach...
from today's T-U...
Quote
Man shot while leaving bar is in critical condition
Police charge two men with attempted murder and armed robbery.
By MATT COLEMAN, The Times-Union
A Jacksonville man shot during an attempted robbery at a Springfield bar Monday is still in critical condition
Thomas Provost, 41, a Worcester, Mass., native nicknamed "Boston Tom," was shot about 9:45 while standing in the doorway of Shantytown Pub on West Sixth Street.
Provost was leaving the bar when he was approached by a gun-toting man and his accomplice. Police said Provost attempted to take the gun and was shot twice.
His sister, Linette Provost, said he was shot in the stomach and neck. Her brother is hooked up to a ventilator at Shands Jacksonville and unable to speak, she said.
"It is killing me inside," Provost said. "I just cannot imagine what is going on inside his head."
She said he is in and out of consciousness, and doctors are slowly trying to wean him off the ventilator.
Christopher Olberding was in the patio area of the bar with about 10 other people when he heard two "pops." He said he thought he heard fireworks until a bartender ran to the patio and yelled Provost had been shot.
"Everyone was in shock, and people were wandering around the bar like zombies," Olberding said. "They stayed inside because they didn't know if the shooter was still in the area."
Olberding said a group of kids in front of a bike shop near Shantytown saw the shooter and his accomplice run down Main Street and through an area neighborhood.
Police arrested Curtis Lee Jones III, 21, and Nicholas Jerome McCray, 18. They were charged with attempted murder and attempted armed robbery with a firearm. Jones also was charged with possession of a firearm or concealed weapon by a felon.
Provost said her brother, a cook at Zodiac Grill, doesn't have medical insurance. The Shantytown staff is setting up a fund to help pay for Provost's medical expenses. The owners and staff declined to comment.
"Olberding said a group of kids in front of a bike shop near Shantytown saw the shooter and his accomplice run down Main Street and through an area neighborhood."
According to the witness on the police report, they left in the vehicle they had parked around the corner. A red 1994 Thunderbird. Of course she doesn't say how far around the corner they were so they probably saw them running to the vehicle.
JSO rounded these guys up quickly. Good! Sometimes shootings like this go unsolved for a long time.
The look on that second kids face make me want to smash his face in. Its bad enough you have hurt a friend, and traumatized a few more, but now you are going to get a mug shot acting like your all big and tough.
grrrrrr
yea I thought the same thing.
Should we assemble an angry mob?
Ah if it were only that easy......
I have the pitch forks if you have the torches.
Oh well. I guess we have to put out trust in the justice system. Hopefully Shorestien will find this case solid enough to bother prosecuting.
If convicted, they are likely facing 25 to life based on the statutory guidelines for shooting someone.
River, the 21yo I understand was the shooter. As he is a convicted felon, doesn't that carry a harsher sentence? Also, the robbery charge with the discharge of a weapon carries a pretty stiff sentence too normally, doesn't it?
If convicted, the shooter should get 3 years for the possession of a firearm by a convicted felon charge and 25 years to life in prison for the shooting. I am not certain about the accomplice although he will likely get hammered too (just not as much as the shooter). Their lives are pretty much over if convicted. Here is a summary of the statute and its effect on criminals convicted of gun crimes:
QuoteMandatory Sentences Under the 10-20-Life Law
The legislation (Chapter 99-12) enacted to implement the Governor's proposal provided mandatory sentences for felons convicted of crimes in which they used a gun. The following provisions [Section 775.087 (2)-(4), Florida Statutes] became effective for crimes committed on or after July 1, 1999.
For pulling a gun during a crime, a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years is imposed. For certain felony crimes or attempted felonies, the 10 year mandatory sentence is authorized if the criminal possessed a gun (or destructive device). For firing the gun during a crime the mandatory minimum sentence is 20 years. For injuring or killing a victim by firing the gun during a crime, a mandatory minimum sentence from 25 years to life in prison is authorized.
For many years, it has been a felony crime in Florida for felons to possess guns. Recognizing that felons who possess guns, despite this violation of law, may intend to commit other serious crimes using guns, the 10-20-Life legislation provided for a mandatory minimum prison sentence of 3 years for such known felons who possess a gun. This provision alone has affected many felons sentenced to prison in Florida.
The legislation also increased to 15 years the minimum prison term when the offender possesses a semiautomatic firearm and its high-capacity detachable box magazine or a machine gun. However, so few of these convictions and sentences have occurred that this report does not examine them separately.
Felon possessing a gun 3 Years
Pulling a gun to commit a crime 10 Years
Pulling the trigger during a crime 20 Years
Injuring or killing a victim by firing a gun during a crime. 25 Years to Life
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/10-20-life/bg.html
Quote from: stephendare on June 21, 2008, 10:14:42 PM
They do look a bit like movie criminals don't they?
Like if you were a casting director for a batman film, the second one especially would be your guy.
That's probably the look he was aiming for...that or cj from gta.
I can't believe that's what some cultures believe you have to do to get respect/streetcred/ or whatever pointless bullshit that exist in ones mind. I would say it was just about getting quick money only but the mugshot shows he's trying to project a certain image...
But hey....it's even more disturbing when the felon is SMILING in their booking photo, like that unf employee who had road rage and flashed his gun at another unf student:
(http://www.news4jax.com/2008/0618/16638515.jpg)
Have you read the police report? They are public. The “driver†a third person who seems to be a female has already given witness, the reports I saw said the guys planned this, they met several times throughout the day to plan, it wasn’t a spur of the moment “let’s get some money†robbery. Read the report, the shooter was quoted as saying “ When he walked up to the door, the cracker (victim) tried to take his gun so he shot him twiceâ€. If either of these two get probation it will be a miracle. I think it is dreaming that even the younger one gets probation. It looked like in the reports they had both admitted to what occurred.
I would think that if the girl who was apparently in the car has definitely turned witness, then the prosecuters wouldn't necessarily need the younger punk to plead out for info on the the older one. If they already have one accomplice who was, to a lesser extent, involved that is willing and ,apparently, already cooperating with the investigators, why would they want to let the younger one go with less punishment? IMO they don't need to deal with him. Just hang both of them from their balls for the rest of their lives...And the girl should get a little something for being involved and not trying to stop it.. These pieces of shit have ruined Tom's life. They've confessed to it. Now they should all pay dearly for it..
Quote10-20-LIFE has helped to drive down Florida's violent-gun crime rates by 30%. The state's 2004, "Index Crime" rate is now the lowest in 34 years, and the violent crime rate is the lowest in a quarter century.
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/10-20-life/ (http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/10-20-life/)
Considering these statistics why do you think Jacksonville is such an anomaly? You would think that 10-20-LIFE would have lowered crime rates here but clearly it hasn't. Why?
Quote from: Downtown Dweller on June 22, 2008, 08:01:30 AM
Have you read the police report? They are public. The “driver†a third person who seems to be a female has already given witness, the reports I saw said the guys planned this, they met several times throughout the day to plan, it wasn’t a spur of the moment “let’s get some money†robbery. Read the report, the shooter was quoted as saying “ When he walked up to the door, the cracker (victim) tried to take his gun so he shot him twiceâ€. If either of these two get probation it will be a miracle. I think it is dreaming that even the younger one gets probation. It looked like in the reports they had both admitted to what occurred.
I thought they weren't public until the case is closed?
Quote from: stephendare on June 22, 2008, 12:58:11 AM
Doubt the younger is going to do anything other than plead, and turn witness against the older, clearly badder defendant.
Look for probation and diversion.
The younger one doesnt look terribly bright, but his record is minor bullshit compared to the criminal faced rogue who did the shooting.
huh? they are both going to be charged with attempted first degree murder and aggravated battery with a firearm dicharging the firearm resulting in great bodily injury. Because they were with a third party, the woman who's basically given them up, they don't need the cooperation of the younger one. These charges carry life sentences. They've also been assigned to Judge Haddock, a judge who hands out life sentences like candy (example he will give someone 20years for sale of cocaine). His court is called REPEAT OFFENDER COURT, which means no Probation or diversion!!! that is only given to first time offenders who commit non-violent crimes like theft or drugs, these guys are going down hard. From what it looks like in the police reports the younger one did the shooting and in Florida it doesn't matter, both are responsible under the principle theory, if they plan it and execute it, even if only one does the deed, the other is a principle in the 1st degree and is just as guilty.
Quote from: stephendare on June 22, 2008, 02:46:11 PM
nope. police reports are public. They arent attorney's and they work for the public. Even when the police reports don't result in charges being filed, they are always available within a few days at public records.
Video tapes from JSO cruisers are also available, but the officers have control of the Microphone and it's frequently Turned on and off making audio gaps in the tape.
I think you are right about the shooter being the 21 year old, but I don't see the younger one getting less than 15 -20 years even with cooperation, particularly in that courtroom. The fact that he shot twice tells me he had formed the proper intent necessary for attempted murder.
I think also that in the report it says that after the shooting the older guy was dropping the younger guy off at his house and handed him the gun and told him to wipe it clean and get rid of it. The younger guy then said that he would wipe it but that he was going to keep it.. I think that shows that he was willing to do it again. All the more reason I hope that the prosecutors don't try to cut a deal with him so he'll turn on the other one. I think they have enough evedence with the confessions and the girl witness/ accessory.. On a side, what good would it do to keep the gun whether it was wiped or not it can be matched to the bullets forensically. Also shows how stupid these idiots are. Prison is too good for them.
Quote from: walter on June 22, 2008, 03:10:43 PM
Quote from: stephendare on June 22, 2008, 12:58:11 AM
Doubt the younger is going to do anything other than plead, and turn witness against the older, clearly badder defendant.
Look for probation and diversion.
The younger one doesnt look terribly bright, but his record is minor bullshit compared to the criminal faced rogue who did the shooting.
huh? they are both going to be charged with attempted first degree murder and aggravated battery with a firearm dicharging the firearm resulting in great bodily injury. Because they were with a third party, the woman who's basically given them up, they don't need the cooperation of the younger one. These charges carry life sentences. They've also been assigned to Judge Haddock, a judge who hands out life sentences like candy (example he will give someone 20years for sale of cocaine). His court is called REPEAT OFFENDER COURT, which means no Probation or diversion!!! that is only given to first time offenders who commit non-violent crimes like theft or drugs, these guys are going down hard. From what it looks like in the police reports the younger one did the shooting and in Florida it doesn't matter, both are responsible under the principle theory, if they plan it and execute it, even if only one does the deed, the other is a principle in the 1st degree and is just as guilty.
thank you Walter. good information.
Quote from: stephendare on June 22, 2008, 12:58:11 AM
Doubt the younger is going to do anything other than plead, and turn witness against the older, clearly badder defendant.
Look for probation and diversion.
The younger one doesnt look terribly bright, but his record is minor bullshit compared to the criminal faced rogue who did the shooting.
I dont think he will get probation and a diversion program if he is an accomplice to an armed robbery/attempted murder/aggravated battery. He will do some significant time but it will not be as much as the shooter.
How is the victim doing?
Still in critical care. I saw him on Friday, and spoke to his girlfriend. He was still on the ventilator, but that was mainly a precaution from what I was told due to a preexisting medical condition. I was told he has been lucid a couple of times, but is being kept pretty well medicated. I plan on going to see him again later this week, if I hear anything in the mean time I will post it.
i just spoke with his girlfriend that said he was awake for several of the visits yesterday, still on the box but hopefully he will be off of that this week. he was wanting water, we will know he is totally with it when he wants beer. later this week, the shanty crew will have the ability for you to go in and leave a voice message which will be placed on an mp3 player and taken to him. we will try and keep the messages updated so he isn't listening to the same people go on and on.
I visited Tom this morning he's awake and is very aware of what/who is around him. He can answer questions with nod of the head of hand signals. He still has a good ways to go. Still has the ventilator so he cant talk.
Thats awesome progress. Thanks FSU.
I haven't been up to shanty since a week after this happened. How is Tom doing? (since the last update)
Here's the flyer for the benefit concert:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/eldeadcow/bostontomflyer-1.jpg)
Quote from: David on July 07, 2008, 04:48:29 PM
... How is Tom doing? (since the last update)
Progress is slow but it's coming. He was moved to another ICU area this week and they are weaning him off the respirator. He still can't talk because of the trach but he writes tons of notes. His spirits are great; he just wants to get the heck out of the hospital, get into rehab and get on with living.
Thank you, everyone. It just amazes me how many lives he has touched.
-hooplady a/k/a JanetD a/k/a "the girlfriend"
thank you for the update janet.
I can vouch for his spirits. I saw him last night. He has his quirkly smart alec smile back, and you could just tell he REALLY wanted to bust my balls about losing the game to the eastside the other day. :-)
Fortunately for him, they have ESPN and the History Ch, so he is keeping his brain busy.
He is going to make a great recovery. You can see the determination in his eyes.
All of us at JC have him in our thoughts as well.
Donations accepted on Toms behalf...
http://www.macrisdirect.com/tom/
Quote from: BridgeTroll on July 14, 2008, 02:38:27 PM
Donations accepted on Toms behalf...
http://www.macrisdirect.com/tom/
i think this is well-known, but those huge medical bills are largely negotiable. Tom will still need help, but I'm just trying to make sure every avenue is covered on the financial end.
any update on Tom this week? thanks.
I am not going to the benefit at Fuel, but i am sure as hell going to stop by an by two or more tickets.
Quote from: Driven1 on July 14, 2008, 02:40:11 PMi think this is well-known, but those huge medical bills are largely negotiable. Tom will still need help, but I'm just trying to make sure every avenue is covered on the financial end.
any update on Tom this week? thanks.
Yes, we are hoping that the medical bills will be negotiable and that large portions will be covered by various public/private sources. Everyone was so nice who offered to take up collections, it didn't even occur to us to ask them the change the wording. For some things it is better to be penniless than merely poor - the less you have, the more you qualify for. We didn't realize that we should be saying "to pay for everything else that he will need."
The evil nefarious breathing machine was banished from his room yesterday (I gave it the finger on its way out). He still has the trach tube but hopefully that will come out soon and he will be able to speak again. He's eating solid food which is a really big deal. He's getting closer to being released from Shands so he can enter rehab, which will be basically like boot camp only harder. :(
So, stuff is happening, slowly but surely. I really look forward to seeing everybody at the benefit this Friday. There's such a great buzz about this event. Thank you Fuel! Thank you Shantytown!
I will repost this on Jacksonville Confidential tomorrow.
Wow...I guess I am still so naive that I believed they would look at the overwhelming evidence against them and just plead guilty. :(
Sooooo hard to keep the rose-colored glasses on these days.
they are counting on that "jury of their peers" to get em off. aka - their peers are required to be as ignorant as they are.
It's not at all shocking, even when people have confessed to crimes, quite often they'll still plead not guilty...so don't let that defray your hopes of justice being served. Between the confession(s) witness accounts and other evidence, let's just pray that these thugs end up being put away for a long time.
They aren't guilty of murder. That's pretty obvious.
From what I recall after they were arrested, the one confessed. Anyway, they're not guilty until proven so...(which we're sure they are) but it's our justice system that's in process...
Quote from: David on July 07, 2008, 04:48:29 PM
I haven't been up to shanty since a week after this happened. How is Tom doing? (since the last update)
Here's the flyer for the benefit concert:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/eldeadcow/bostontomflyer-1.jpg)
Dont forget... tonight is the event... cya there!
http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2008/07/14/boston-tom-benefit-this-weekend-at-fuel/#comments
Quote from: jbm32206 on July 17, 2008, 10:02:17 PM
From what I recall after they were arrested, the one confessed. Anyway, they're not guilty until proven so...(which we're sure they are) but it's our justice system that's in process...
They aren't guilty of murder because they didn't kill anyone. Were they actually charged with murder?
According to the police reports they were not charged with murder, it was armed robbery, assualt with a deadly weapon. felon with a fire arm, etc etc....LUCKILY it isn;t murder, but it wasn't becuase they wouldn't have murder our friend Tom, I would say three shots, especially where they were placed is pretty much an attempt at murder. I am sure you were just stating a fact, not trying to make their crime seem like it was any less than what it was, a stupid attempt on someone's life for $50.
Quote from: Lunican on July 18, 2008, 07:46:10 AMThey aren't guilty of murder because they didn't kill anyone. Were they actually charged with murder?
I thought the original police report indicated "attempted murder" but I don't have it in front of me. I think the Fox30 reporter made a mistake and Lunican was just pointing out the discrepancy; he's a fact-based kinda guy.
Quote from: Lunican on July 18, 2008, 07:46:10 AM
Quote from: jbm32206 on July 17, 2008, 10:02:17 PM
From what I recall after they were arrested, the one confessed. Anyway, they're not guilty until proven so...(which we're sure they are) but it's our justice system that's in process...
They aren't guilty of murder because they didn't kill anyone. Were they actually charged with murder?
I never said murder....so I don't know where you're thinking I did. However, the one thug did confess to the shooting.
It's a happy day in my world. Tom has finally graduated to Brooks Rehab - he left Shands last night. Now his hard work really begins.
Thanks again to everyone for their support, encouragement, love & prayers.
Janet, our prayers will continue as I know he's got a hard road ahead of him
Quote from: hooplady on July 22, 2008, 11:04:49 AM
It's a happy day in my world. Tom has finally graduated to Brooks Rehab - he left Shands last night. Now his hard work really begins.
Thanks again to everyone for their support, encouragement, love & prayers.
Wahoo!! That is great news! I know a few people whose hard work getting him there has paid off. You should all be very proud. This is great news for an awful situation... :) :) :) :)
Visited with Tom yesterday at Brooks... he seems in good spirits but is ready to be out of hospitals. He is hoping to be discharged from Brooks in 2-3 weeks.
The Florida Times-Union
September 15, 2008
Shooting victim gets new wheels
By MATT COLEMAN,
The Times-Union
Two wheels are nothing new to Thomas Provost.
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The Springfield resident spent years biking from work to home and across North Jacksonville.
A felon's bullet might have devastated his spine and taken away his ability to bike, but he said he is looking forward to breaking in his newest set of wheels.
After three months of intensive physical therapy at Brooks Rehabilitation, Provost took his first ride Thursday in a manual wheelchair.
He was shot while trying to stop an armed man from robbing a neighborhood bar and awoke in Shands Jacksonville, paralyzed from the chest down.
The 42-year-old Worcester, Mass., native was walking through the front door of Shantytown Pub in Springfield about 9:45 p.m. June 16 when he was accosted by a gun-toting man and his accomplice.
He had come back for one last pint after walking his girlfriend, Janet Dahlseid, home from the bar. He said his encounter with the men lasted only a few seconds but is forever etched in his mind.
"The one with the gun stuck it in my face and told me to go inside the bar," Provost said. "I grabbed at it then heard the shots."
One bullet hit him in the neck and lodged itself in his spine. Two more struck him in the stomach as he fell to the floor. The pair tried to flee, but witnesses at a nearby bike shop saw them run down Main Street and alerted authorities.
Police quickly arrested Curtis Lee Jones III, 21, and Nicholas Jerome McCray, 18. They were charged with attempted murder and attempted armed robbery with a firearm. Jones also was charged with possession of a firearm or concealed weapon by a felon.
Provost said if he could do it again he would still fight back - but he would make one slight alteration.
"I'd probably try to move the gun away from me," Provost said in a slight monotone. He paused for a moment to let his statement take root before unleashing a smile.
'Boston Tom' still the same
Others might have folded into themselves after receiving such a difficult diagnosis, but the humor and laid-back attitude that made Provost a popular Springfield fixture is still in effect. Decked out in full Boston Red Sox regalia - a 2007 championship T-shirt and matching hat - he cracked jokes with a noticeable accent during one of his six daily therapy sessions. He skips over the letter R frequently when he speaks, so it's easy to guess why most Shantytown regulars know him mainly as "Boston Tom."
During a recent physical therapy session, one of his nurses made a delicate mistake - making known her allegiance to the New York Yankees. Even though she had his leg stretched into the air at a compromising angle, he didn't stay silent.
"Yup, I'm a Yankee hater," Provost said with a straight face. "Doesn't look like they're doing so well this year, does it?"
The pair swapped good-natured barbs for a few minutes as she put Provost through various rehabilitation exercises.
Push-ups. Toe touches. Balance-building stretches. He followed each of her instructions diligently because, he said, he needs to reliably execute the simple maneuvers for any real shot at self-reliance.
Homecoming
Dahlseid said Provost's recovery has progressed rapidly. When he first began at Brooks Rehabilitation he was hardly able to push himself upright. Now he coasts through most sessions without breaking a sweat. But his biggest challenge remains.
Provost was scheduled to be released today to his new home - a downstairs apartment in Springfield that's fully wheelchair-accessible. He still has bills to pay for his medical coverage and new residence, he's not sure if he'll be able to return to his cashier's job at Zodiac Grill, and relearning mundane tasks like cleaning and cooking is going to be daunting.
But he didn't complain once.
Much like some of the homes dotting the historic North Jacksonville neighborhood, Provost still needs work. He took to the wheelchair with unexpected grace for a first-timer, but learning to navigate narrow corridors and traverse inclines will only come with time.
If living in and helping refurbish old homes in a historic neighborhood has taught him one thing, it's the value of patience. It's a personality trait Provost said he expects to exercise as often as the shoulders he uses to propel his wheelchair.
The timing of his release is good, though, because patience is only so fulfilling.
He is getting a little antsy for one of his favorite things.
"Beer."
The word poured out of his mouth with little hesitation.
"The food here at Brooks isn't bad, but it'll never be home without beer."
matt.coleman@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-4654
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/091508/met_332370465.shtml