QuoteJEA is asking its board of directors for up to $3 million to study how to best address its neglected and crumbling downtown Jacksonville headquarters.
The utility is considering whether it should build a completely new tower or renovate its existing building — a dated Mid-Century Modern high rise topped by a Jetsons-style conference room — and the neighboring customer-service center. Either way, costs have been estimated to cost between $40-50 million.
JEA's audit and finance committee Monday unanimously approved the staff study, which could cost up to $3 million and will last about six months. The full JEA board must sign off on the expense.
JEA bought the downtown campus — which includes the tower, the neighboring customer-service center and a parking garage across the street — in 1989. Today, they house about 750 employees.
The buildings, constructed in 1962, have never undergone major capital improvements, and JEA staff now says the buildings, particularly the tower, face costly problems.
Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/2015-08-10/story/cost-study-jeas-crumbling-downtown-headquarters-could-reach-3-million
LOL, so the building is "crumbling" now because they don't have enough parking spaces and some systems need to be replaced after 50 years of neglect?
Quote■ Several critical systems, like the plumbing, are at the end-of-life stage.
■ Elevators frequently fail and their parts so old they cannot be easily replaced.
■ Fire protection systems have to be updated to meet compliance standards.
■ The parking garage, servicing the customer-service center and main tower, has only 513 parking spaces — far short of the 758 employees assigned to those buildings.
http://jacksonville.com/news/2015-08-10/story/cost-study-jeas-crumbling-downtown-headquarters-could-reach-3-million
Give me $50 in one dollar bills and I can expand on the solution mentioned below!
Build a new tower and sell the existing "crumbling" one.
^ That "common sense" style of thinking will certainly land you in trouble, Mr. Lakelander, and is not welcome in Jacksonville.
There's plenty of land near the courthouse that could be developed...
Quote from: jaxjaguar on August 10, 2015, 02:50:15 PM
There's plenty of land near the courthouse that could be developed...
There's plenty of land near the "transportation hub" that could be developed...
Quote from: thelakelander on August 10, 2015, 02:05:31 PM
LOL, so the building is "crumbling" now because they don't have enough parking spaces and some systems need to be replaced after 50 years of neglect?
Quote■ Several critical systems, like the plumbing, are at the end-of-life stage.
■ Elevators frequently fail and their parts so old they cannot be easily replaced.
■ Fire protection systems have to be updated to meet compliance standards.
■ The parking garage, servicing the customer-service center and main tower, has only 513 parking spaces — far short of the 758 employees assigned to those buildings.
http://jacksonville.com/news/2015-08-10/story/cost-study-jeas-crumbling-downtown-headquarters-could-reach-3-million
Give me $50 in one dollar bills and I can expand on the solution mentioned below!
Build a new tower and sell the existing "crumbling" one.
Ha ha! God forbid the lazy asses have to walk a block from the next parking garage down the street. We wonder why we are all fat asses, lol!
$3 million to spend on consultants to tell them what's wrong???
Aren't there any mechanical engineers (by education) employed there already? You can't get free estimates from different contractors to fix each problem area?
The JEA board should resign/be fired for rubber stamping this type of nonsense.
And you wonder why the general public has lost all confidence in government and its agencies.
They lost their big bet on coal as well.
This is just flat out waste.
As I said earlier in the thread that discussed this a while ago (remember it was the 'chance of flooding' that they used as a trial balloon to judge public sentiment about building a new headquarters)? Just go ahead and build the new building instead of wasting another $3 million for an 'official' excuse.
JEA used to be the shining success in this town. Not any longer.
I agree with most on this forum that $3 million for a study to determine a problem that has already been identified is a ridiculous waste of money. The board members should be ashamed of themselves if they approve this. They clearly want a new building, so save the $3 million, select a lot, put out the project to bid including the building design, and just move forward. I just saved them $3 million.
Perhaps if they weren't fighting the solar energy state amendment, people might actually think twice about how much JEA is despised. They bet on coal which was idiotic, but clearly aren't interested in finding alternative solutions. If they were smart, they would go all in on solar, convince a solar company to move to Jacksonville, and jump start a new Duval County industry. I bet GE would have considered covering the roof of their gigantic new facility with solar panels, if they knew they could sell the unused energy back into the system. We live in FLORIDA! Every roof should be plastered with solar panels. But no, our brilliant JEA bet on coal. Idiots!
I'm sorry...I digress.
whoa! people get paid $3 million for this? That's like a million dollars a second because it seems like 3 seconds is how long it's going to take them to come to a conclusion. I'm getting into that business!
Very very fishy. $3M would be an immense commission to sell a class A office tower in a major city. And brokers, along with landlords/sellers, basically put together well thought out "studies" for value-add propositions, recaps, etc for deals of this size for a weeeee fraction of this price.
Basically, a study on what to do with this building does not cost $3M and something fishy is going on/pockets are being greased and the men at the board of directors are discreetly jacking each other off through their pants while they chat around a board room table.
This should really be looked into. Small building. Doesn't actually seem like that complex of a problem (relative to what I've seen at least). JEA known for fishiness.
And as mentioned, they could literally sell their "crumbling" tower for a fraction of the price (i,e commission) as this study on what to do with it. Between commission, transfer taxes, legal fees, buyer DD costs, etc, every party involved in such a transaction would have an impossible time even coming close to wracking up the fees we are talking here, and the brokers/buyers will have developed a fully baked idea on what to do with the building once under new ownership. In fact, it could then be a sale lease-back where JEA pockets change upfront and has carry over 10-15 years. JEA's credit, Jacksonville's shitty market, and it wouldn't be much at all.
And this thing is crumbling? Let's fix the Barnett first. $3M would go decently far there.
Quote from: CCMjax on August 10, 2015, 08:48:54 PM
whoa! people get paid $3 million for this? That's like a million dollars a second because it seems like 3 seconds is how long it's going to take them to come to a conclusion. I'm getting into that business!
Deciding on which font to use for the final report will require more effort than deciding what to do with the "crumbling" building.
If you look at the Board Members of these local entities (which are either appointed by the Mayor's office or by the Governor) you start seeing the same names pop up again and again. Political paybacks for the most part I am guessing. They have no accountability as they really won't be fired so they just say yes to whatever is presented to them. Not naming names but most of these folks are really, really rich and have no clue how hard it is for normal working people to pay their bills.
If these boards were better represented by a more diverse group (read that as working folks) instead of millionaire Republican donors or their offspring I would think someone would raise an eyebrow and at least question this type of money grab.
Let us not forget the FSCJ Board dealing with it's former President which comes to mind as an example of a board that lost it's way.
Looks Like JEA is in the same boat. But they are not alone of course.
On the JTA side of things the road contracts almost always go to the same road builder even if they are not the lowest bid.
Time for a change...
Well fortunately, since there is now a fiscally conservative Governor and a fiscally conservative Mayor, this excessive wasteful nonsense will be stopped..... or will it?
There's plenty of vacant land all over downtown Jacksonville; and I agree, hiring a consultant and paying them 3 million to tell you what you already know and/or is apparent is a waste of money. JEA should really give that money to members of this group and forum who told them what to do just this morning, the same thing that the consultants will tell you.
For $3M wouldn't it be possible to fix the plumbing, evelvators, and the fire systems and then pay for the use of 200 parking spaces for years in a separate garage? Then they could receive accolades for being responsible stewards of all of our money. However, it seems like they're heading as fast as possible in the opposite direction.
Who pays for this 3 million dollar study? The taxpayers of Jacksonville Florida. God what a waste of money.
Evidently having a basement and underground parking is a hazard as well! Is it not common for buildings such as this to have basements in major cities across the country? Please sell the building and move on!
QuoteThe basement in the tower also represents a safety hazard because of its underground parking area with limited security in place, making the building a possible target for a bomb in a vehicle.
In addition, the plumbing is difficult to maintain. Dykes said when a drain must be cleared using mechanical means, the process often destroys the pipe due to the age and condition of the plumbing.
Another factor to be studied is which departments and how many staff should be located Downtown. Currently, more than 800 employees work in the tower and service center in electric and water systems operations, customer relationships, financial and technology services, human resources and public affairs.
Committee Chair Peter Bower said many years ago, Barnett Banks evaluated its Downtown presence and determined it would be more cost-effective to move the "back office" functions to suburban offices and retain the executive and some management operations in the urban core.
Dykes said JEA could operate with no loss of efficiency or customer service with fewer square feet of space whether the decision is made to renovate the current building or replace it.
The study will be conducted primarily by JEA staff. The utility also plans to issue a Request for Proposals seeking a consultant to assist with development of the plan, which is expected to take three to six months to complete.
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=545934
This all reeks of dead fish. Every building in NYC, SF, and DC (and now Seattle) has a basement and underground garage. SF is in a highly active seismic zone (with tremors constantly and decent sized tremors and/or quakes every year or two), and basements for large buildings are often 50-100 ft deep and bedrock is often another 200-300 ft below that (one caisson alone could be 300+ ft deep and cost over $1M in concrete/steel). What is the big concern in Jax? Modis has a subterranean garage.
Bomb threat in Jax? WTF these people are giving themselves way too much credit. Nobody gives two iodas about Jacksonville or its utility company. At most there is another Timothy McVeigh out there who could go crazy anywhere, from Waycross to Jacksonville to NYC. Can't stop all those people or really worry about them. ISIS? Organized terror looking to bring down the country? If people in major cities aren't worried about this stuff, why are these overpaid, unrealistic, super corrupt JEA officials worried about this?
An underground garage is going to be far safer for controlling who goes in and who comes out than any other type of garage.
OMG these people...
And ok, so they want to move their lower ranks to the burbs to a cheap back office and keep their execs downtown. Kind of makes sense, but this whole thing sounds like a few rich, worthless executives at one of the worst run utility companies in America trying to pat themselves on the back, protect themselves from imaginary assassins out to get them, and build themselves a monument and a mansion. I mean this process is almost like what you watch on American Greed. Just unreal.
QuoteThe study will be conducted primarily by JEA staff. The utility also plans to issue a Request for Proposals seeking a consultant to assist with development of the plan, which is expected to take three to six months to complete.
If the study is being conducted by current employees, shouldn't the cost be nearly zero unless these people are conducting the study purely on overtime hours?? If the consultant is expected to make up most of the cost, that would be 15,000 hours at $200 per hour. If the work was done over 3 months, that would be 30 consultants working 500 hours at $200 per hour (or half that plus travel if we use a "prestigious" out of town firm).
I'm thinking they'll hire someone who says JEA needs 20 floors of class A space and then 6 months later we'll find out he recently wrote a book with racist remarks or something like that....
^^^lol
Can we spend $3M on an investigation into potential corruption at JEA? that might be money more wisely spent.
From a pop culture perspective, I'm just impressed that Nate Monroe worked in a reference to "The Jetsons" in his story.
Here's a fun fact: the JEA building and that futuristic Hanna-Barbera cartoon both debuted in 1962. The show was taken off the air in 1963, but then was renovated with new episodes in 1985 and 1987, and a film in 1990. Apparently Warner Brothers soon plans to assemble a brand new animated feature film.
And another mid-century modern building bites the dust!
Well Simms, you're actually safer in a subway tunnel during a quake then on the surface... Maybe Jacksonville needs another earthquake since our last big one (by more recent Florida standards) was January 12, 1879. Two severe shocks of about 30 sec each occurred from an area from Ft. Myers to Daytona and from Tallahassee to Jacksonville, and from all areas in between. The epicenter was located at 29°30'N, 82°00'W (U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey, 1938). The shock was reported by hundreds of residents over a 25,000 square mile area of the Florida peninsula, and ranged from MMVIII to MMIX.
At St. Augustine, articles were thrown from shelves. In other locations, windows rattled violently and walls cracked. Rockwood (1880) indicated that the tremor progressed from the NW toward the SE between Gulf Hammock and Okahumpa. In the Tampa Bay area, Campbell (1943) states that the shock seemed to move from the SW to NE and was preceded by a rumbling sound ". . . as of a distant railroad train." MMVI was reported near Gainesville (Lane, 1976).
On August 31, 1886, there were a series of strong shocks in Charleston, South Carolina on this date. The tremors in Charleston began at 21:51. In Tampa, residents reported 2 shocks, the first at 21:51, the second at 22:00. The first appeared to move NE to SW, while the second seemed to travel SW to NE.
In St. Augustine, church bells tolled as the tremor passed, while near Tallahassee, the water in Lake Jackson disappeared. A well near Graceville began to flow (Campbell, 1943).
Jacksonville felt these for about 2 months. Our worst quake was probably the October 12, 1727, "Severe" tremors were reported and mentioned by Campbell (1943) and Lane (1976). However, the original record of these quakes has been lost. A severe shock was reported in New England on this date at 10:40. Reports of another shock came from Martinique on the same day. The relationship of either of these to the St. Augustine tremor was not established.
Another severe quake knocked down buildings in Pensacola on May 8, 1781, but it didn't effect Jacksonville. Oddly as it might seem, San Francisco builds for this activity and we don't. Earthquakes while very rare here could present a real deathtrap situation in an urban area such as Jacksonville's CBD.
It is ridiculous that JEA plans to spend $3 million to determine a location. The Mayor's Office and City Council should say NO to this expenditure. Additionally, the City has a major interest in and is presently trying to revitalize downtown. As a city-owned utility, JEA needs to keep with the program. Will City leaders continue to pretend to be powerless when it comes to JEA?
Quote from: Kay on August 11, 2015, 10:58:42 PM
It is ridiculous that JEA plans to spend $3 million to determine a location. The Mayor's Office and City Council should say NO to this expenditure. Additionally, the City has a major interest in and is presently trying to revitalize downtown. As a city-owned utility, JEA needs to keep with the program. Will City leaders continue to pretend to be powerless when it comes to JEA?
Bingo!
Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 11, 2015, 09:21:13 AM
For $3M wouldn't it be possible to fix the plumbing, evelvators, and the fire systems and then pay for the use of 200 parking spaces for years in a separate garage? Then they could receive accolades for being responsible stewards of all of our money. However, it seems like they're heading as fast as possible in the opposite direction.
Because makes too much sense.
I agree with Simms, somebody's brother in law or nephew or friend is getting an inside handjob on this one. Either they're the consultant who will be picked, or they're the guy who wants to buy the building once JEA moves, and this is paving the way for a give-away of the property, probably with development incentives from the city or JEA. For $3mm you could replace the elevators and plumbing that seem to be their main complaint, spending that just to have people talk about fixing it instead makes clear that they've made up their mind, they want a shiny new building, and we're all going to pay for it.
Per Stepahnie Brown Twitter the JEA Board just approved the money to hire a consultant for the review. But the amount was lowered to $1 million.
I'd be willing to do it for half that.
Quote from: mbwright on August 18, 2015, 03:42:53 PM
I'd be willing to do it for half that.
Well cool, put your bid in.
This JEA situation will be addressed in tomorrow's featured article. We'll provide you with a no-frills logical path to move forward for far less than $2 million! ;)
I'm sure the article will be practical and based in reality. However, the JEA board lives in some fantasy land. They just significantly raised compensation for the CEO and voted on a $1 million study even though a couple of board members voted against it because they wanted the $3 million study. WTF!
The board runs the agency like its 1950. Part of their plan to raise needed cash is to sell trees and look at the possibility of natural gas. Outdated, wealthy snobs with no vision and complete disregard for the idea that they govern with responsibility and genuine citizenship. No room for servant leadership at JEA. I would love for respected leaders and elected officials in our community to start calling out JEA on their lack of leadership and lack of fiscal conservatism. It's funny how republicans only campaign on being fiscally responsible but never govern that way.
My rant is over. :-\ Sorry.
I also find it funny how they have almost no foresight when it comes to energy generation. I mean doubling down on coal improvements right before natural gas took off? Plus now the EPA's new rules will make it even harder and expensive since there is essentially a push to phase out coal all together (which is a good thing). There just doesn't seem to be a lot of thinking or innovation going on there. Always playing catch up and rate payers front the bill on dumb choices. Recent solar expansion is good but 50 MWh is a drop in the bucket.
Well this is interesting news from T-U:
QuoteJEA spends $400,000 on renovations at same time it mulls new building
When JEA chief executive officer Paul McElroy asked his board of directors in August to approve $1 million to study whether the utility's aging downtown headquarters needs to be torn down, he may have also had something else on his mind.
McElroy didn't mention it at the time, but a $400,000 renovation of the building's 14th floor was already in motion, including about $200,000 on furniture and demolition work to convert the space into what JEA now describes as a "higher density, modern floor layout." The work will be finished in about two weeks.
In a series of written statements to the Times-Union in response to questions about the work, JEA said the revamp is a "pilot project" that "complements the study JEA is pursuing regarding the future of our downtown headquarters."
But when JEA officials made their public case in August for the board of directors to approve money for the study — McElroy initially asked for $3 million — they did not mention the additional $400,000 renovations.
Publicly, JEA has repeatedly asserted that its 19-story downtown headquarters is in such a state of disrepair that the total renovation of the entire building effectively addressing its myriad maintenance issues could cost tens of millions of dollars. Problems run the gamut from plumbing and flooding issues to defects with back-up generators and fire protection deficiencies.
In fact, refurbishing the building might not prove the most cost-effective option. JEA staff wants to explore whether it makes more sense to demolish the tower and rebuild a new one in its place or build a new tower while minimizing maintenance and repairs on the current headquarters. That exploration is the purpose of the study.
More here (http://jacksonville.com/news/2015-10-14/story/jea-spends-400000-renovations-same-time-it-mulls-new-building#.Vh7aso6Y_uI.twitter). It's odd JEA wasn't clear about this in the beginning.
Perhaps a million dollar study doesn't seem that expensive.
Heck just tear it down and build a new one. I know just the experienced company to do it. That's only a $50-$75 million building plus temporary facilities, new furnishings and relocation cost (x 2 relocations). I'm sure construction and FFE wouldn't be more than $150 million.