Urban Construction Update - July 2015
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4229154488_N3Lw8cR-L.jpg)
Major construction projects have returned to the landscape of Jacksonville's urban core. Find out where (and more) as we take a brief look at the status of various developments under construction in and around Downtown Jacksonville during the month of July 2015.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jul-urban-construction-update-july-2015
The Cowford Chophouse is going t look awesome, I can feel it!
I also can't wiat to see the design plans for the new Cancer Center. I sure hope the building will fit in well with the surroundings and be held to high standards by the city.
Are you sure a bowling alley is going into 1012 King Street? Doesn't it seem a little small for a restaurant/bar and a bowling alley?
I did a little research and it seems as though Scott McAllister bought the old Phoenix Lanes on Blanding Blvd.
Might there be a mix up in some of the details?
Still nobody knows whats going on at #45. 1604 San Marco Boulevard?
So what's the deal with the status of the BRT project downtown? How does it take nearly a near to pave/widen a couple of small sections of road? The fact there's almost always some crew working actively working on the site makes it even more confusing/infuriating.
I have a friend who recently moved into The Brooklyn Riverside. Unfortunately it hasn't been without complaint. The space itself has received rave reviews, but management seems to be nickel-and-diming residents. Still, his greater disappointment has been the demographics. He bought into the idea of Brooklyn Riverside as a place for young professionals, but it seems to be attracting a large number of families instead. Granted this is only anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt. I had hoped to be able to move in myself at some point, but as the rent prices Jacksonville keep going up that seems to be quickly moving out of reach.
First I am hearing of Timoti's Seafood Shak opening a location in Five Points. That is great news as I have heard great things of the Amelia Island location. The riverside area really does not offer a cheaper seafood option (apart from Bluefish's happy hour). This should be a great addition to the area. Thanks for the update!
Quote from: dp8541 on July 30, 2015, 12:29:41 PM
First I am hearing of Timoti's Seafood Shak opening a location in Five Points. That is great news as I have heard great things of the Amelia Island location. The riverside area really does not offer a cheaper seafood option (apart from Bluefish's happy hour). This should be a great addition to the area. Thanks for the update!
X2!
Somewhat related note, Marcus Lemonis was listed this month as a new member of Epping Forest. I'm guessing he'll be using the club for meeting space while he is in town, but that I found it interesting that he is strengthening his ties to Jax a little more.
What exactly is being done to the exterior of Baptist downtown? It's really hard to tell from the pics... are they just redoing the stucco / paint?
Quote from: Crabernacle on July 30, 2015, 12:28:15 PM
I have a friend who recently moved into The Brooklyn Riverside. Unfortunately it hasn't been without complaint. The space itself has received rave reviews, but management seems to be nickel-and-diming residents. Still, his greater disappointment has been the demographics. He bought into the idea of Brooklyn Riverside as a place for young professionals, but it seems to be attracting a large number of families instead. Granted this is only anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt. I had hoped to be able to move in myself at some point, but as the rent prices Jacksonville keep going up that seems to be quickly moving out of reach.
Isn't it up to 2 bedrooms? I'm surprised that they're getting a lot of families...even anecdotally. If anything I would think the complaint would be too many old retirees or empty nesters...
The love for urban living doesn't go away because you commit to one person and decide to have kids. I'm not surprised to see families interested in new multifamily housing near downtown. I was more surprised at the lack of housing types and kiddie amenities in downtown, when I first came to town. Truly great cities accommodate the entire life cycle. Get a decent public school down there and the flood gates will open!
^^^Yea, frankly, in some of the top tier cities, wealthy new couples (with or without kids) and empty nesters live immediately downtown, where it's typically more quiet, has solid restaurants, and shuts down fairly early on average (but also offers amenities for mom and dad or couple freshly without kids to have a "night out on the town" that ends by 11-12). I've noticed this in SF where truly luxury condos (up to $49M in price) are built downtown, and in NYC where Midtown is really the only place where I consistently see baby strollers and also where the truly luxury condos are mostly being built (on perhaps the quietest street in Manhattan at 57th), with the other crop of luxury towers going to Lower Manhattan.
The inner ring urban neighborhoods like Riverside tend to attract a ton of bars. Inner ring warehouse areas are where all the clubs and trendy "lofts" are, leaving outer neighborhoods or immediately downtown for those looking for a more settled lifestyle.
This makes a bit of sense. I mean, look at the Peninsula. Filled with empty nesters/boomers. I know that for a fact because I know quite a few of them.
Quote from: Josh on July 30, 2015, 12:12:35 PM
So what's the deal with the status of the BRT project downtown? How does it take nearly a near to pave/widen a couple of small sections of road? The fact there's almost always some crew working actively working on the site makes it even more confusing/infuriating.
This amounts to more than paving. Sidewalks on both the east/west sides of Jefferson and Broad streets between Forsyth and Beaver streets are all being replaced. So what's that about 8,000 feet of decorative sidewalks (bricklaying, etc). They also did utility work, new drainage, sewers). The groundbreaking was in November so the construction work started after the first of the year. Not even close to a year on this yet.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on July 30, 2015, 03:09:34 PM
Somewhat related note, Marcus Lemonis was listed this month as a new member of Epping Forest. I'm guessing he'll be using the club for meeting space while he is in town, but that I found it interesting that he is strengthening his ties to Jax a little more.
that is pretty cool.
I heard the other night that Laverneous (sp?) Coles is seeking zoning exceptions to re-open a dance/entertainment/alcohol venue on Philips Highway at Bowden. Is he expanding his interests, or has he given up on the downtown venture?
He already owns a strip club at Philips and Bowden. I suspect this is the place.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2015, 07:56:58 PM
He already owns a strip club at Philips and Bowden. I suspect this is the place.
Is it "upscale and grown" tho?
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2015, 04:20:01 PM
The love for urban living doesn't go away because you commit to one person and decide to have kids. I'm not surprised to see families interested in new multifamily housing near downtown. I was more surprised at the lack of housing types and kiddie amenities in downtown, when I first came to town. Truly great cities accommodate the entire life cycle. Get a decent public school down there and the flood gates will open!
I basically agree, but I would think that no matter how urban minded the individual, in Jax you'd want at least 3 bedrooms if you have kids.
Quote from: fsquid on July 30, 2015, 05:37:11 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on July 30, 2015, 03:09:34 PM
Somewhat related note, Marcus Lemonis was listed this month as a new member of Epping Forest. I'm guessing he'll be using the club for meeting space while he is in town, but that I found it interesting that he is strengthening his ties to Jax a little more.
that is pretty cool.
Finally saw the progress report episode for Sweet Pete's. Seems like he wants Pete to do more networking with corporate execs. Could joining Epping be part of these efforts?
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on July 30, 2015, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2015, 04:20:01 PM
The love for urban living doesn't go away because you commit to one person and decide to have kids. I'm not surprised to see families interested in new multifamily housing near downtown. I was more surprised at the lack of housing types and kiddie amenities in downtown, when I first came to town. Truly great cities accommodate the entire life cycle. Get a decent public school down there and the flood gates will open!
I basically agree, but I would think that no matter how urban minded the individual, in Jax you'd want at least 3 bedrooms if you have kids.
Depends on how many kids you have, your background and how much time you spend in the house. My mom grew up in a four bedroom house with both parents and her 4 brothers and 4 sisters living under the same roof. My dad lived with his grandmother, two of his aunts and at least 4 of their kids, in a three bedroom shotgun. I grew up in a 3/2 with 2 brothers. When my parents had guests, they got one of our rooms and we slept on the couch in the living room. Upon high school graduation, my dad threatened to knock the walls between the bedrooms down to expand his master. He said, this would keep us from thinking we could come back and live with them as adults.
If you have one or two small ones and don't entertain many guests, you can get by with two bedrooms and a futon in the living room. I did this with my first apartment out of school before making the mistake of buying a 3 bed/2 bath house in suburban Lakeland a year later. Despite the apartment being a 2/1 with about 600 square feet, I never felt cramped probably because I spent the money saved not paying higher rent/mortgage going out of town on the weekends. After work, all I wanted to do was eat and sleep and it served those needs well.
With the house, I got a lot more space but I really hated having to keep up with the yard and drive everywhere for everything. After 4 months of being in the house, I quit my job for one in Ponte Vedra and moved back into a 2/1.5 apartment/townhouse. I'll probably never move into a suburban house again because of that experience.
I get that some people are used to that. But that doesn't mean you'd choose that given the options here.
I've spent short-term stays (never lived though) with two people in ~350 sq ft in Hong Kong, six people in ~700 sq ft in Singapore and my wife lived in a 400 sq ft studio on Redondo Beach. With one child we certainly could handle a 2-bedroom, 1000 sq ft apt in Brooklyn Riverside, e.g., but why would we choose to do that? Would you, Lake? That was the basis for my viewpoint, even before you factor in the premium you would be paying for that small box. $1600/month for 982 sq ft? Wouldn't most families choose to get a larger home for less money in a surrounding neighborhood??
Anyway, I ask incredulously cause thats my mindset, but clearly if it's mostly families moving in then many others disagree with my mindset lol.
I thought about doing it briefly with 2 at Brooklyn Riverside and 220 Riverside. In the end, it wasn't the size or cost of the space that turned me off. It was Jax, in general. The public schools suck in the area and I refuse to pay a couple thousand extra to send my kids to a private school that lacks the cultural diversity/demographics I prefer for them to be exposed too. Thus, I'd pay more for less space and end up driving more then I do now in daily reverse commutes. With that said, if I ever relocate to some place like Chicago or DC, I'd spend the extra cash for a smaller space with no problem. I have no problem reducing housing square footage when the neighborhood around you becomes your living room, diversity increases, public schools improve and my personal auto costs drop significantly.
Before my older brother finished his house, just south of DT Fort Lauderdale, he did the same exact thing. For a few years, he paid +$2k/month for a 2/2 condo in a tower on the Las Olas River in DT Fort Lauderdale. He squeezed his two teenage daughters and his wife in there with him. It was smaller than the place I had rented in Lakeland, but shops, restaurants, boats, parks, a movie theater, grocery store, museums, etc. were literally right outside of the tower's first floor entrance.
^With that said, I really wanted to move to San Marco this time last year. Being on the south side of the river resolved the public school/reverse commute dilemma. Unfortunately, it was too difficult to find a 2/2 with full W/D connections (the W/D connection is a must have) with interior conditions for my lady's liking. At this point, I'm pretty much convinced that I'm going to have to build something for myself, if I'm ever to move to urban core Jax (which I plan on doing). So in the meantime, I settled for Southpointe. A five year old, 1,300 square foot, 3/2 condo with a garage and direct tv tossed in. Not really walkable (but what really is locally?) but an easy commute to the schools in Mandarin, little league football off Baymeadows Way, my downtown office, the beach and my Central Florida office (via I-95). Definitely, not my favorite place, but it works for now, given our places of employment.
^ To your schools point, don't let that be a preventative factor.
Magnet schools aren't really that difficult to gain admission to. It's where parents who value education send their kids who don't live in good school districts. You can also utilize School Choice. Many, many (thousands?) of parents who live in urban core neighborhoods do this.
^Looked at magnets like Darnell Cookman. Good school. However, it was geared towards a field my son isn't interested in. Ended up going with a magnet that suited his interests in Mandarin. At this point in time, it is what it is. Next year, it will be on to high school.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 31, 2015, 12:04:51 AM
^With that said, I really wanted to move to San Marco this time last year. Being on the south side of the river resolved the public school/reverse commute dilemma. Unfortunately, it was too difficult to find a 2/2 with full W/D connections (the W/D connection is a must have) with interior conditions for my lady's liking. At this point, I'm pretty much convinced that I'm going to have to build something for myself, if I'm ever to move to urban core Jax (which I plan on doing). So in the meantime, I settled for Southpointe. A five year old, 1,300 square foot, 3/2 condo with a garage and direct tv tossed in. Not really walkable (but what really is locally?) but an easy commute to the schools in Mandarin, little league football off Baymeadows Way, my downtown office, the beach and my Central Florida office (via I-95). Definitely, not my favorite place, but it works for now, given our places of employment.
Lake I wanted to buy a row house in Oklahoma (between hendricks and SMB, not the state), but it doesn't exist. The lack of diversity in building stock is really a downer. If you ever want to go in on a project there, let me know!
^I feel you. I wanted a rowhouse or at least a townhouse somewhere near downtown when I first came to town. Not really knowing the area at the time, I figured there would be a good number of choices because it seemed like these things were being constructed in abundance in cities around the south a decade ago. Heck, I would have quickly settled for something at East San Marco if it were completed and available. During the relocation process, I only had two days to visit town to find something. I didn't want a flat with something above or below me, so that took out 11 East, Carling, etc., causing me to settle on the second day for something off Southside Boulevard between JTB and I-95.
I believe the lack of diversity in available building stock is so great, it's hard to prove that most prefer housing further out. The reality of the situation is the choices can get pretty limited real quick for the average person. I'm really hoping that 220 Riverside and Brooklyn Riverside are successful. They could open the floodgates for more infill housing, thus diversifying the available building stock and increasing urban vibrancy in the process. On the other hand, if they struggle, it could set us back a bit.
^ The Carling wasn't even open back then. 11E was about the only option.
Lack of options when I came to town was how I ended up with a house in Springfield. It worked out ok and saved me from commuting which was a top priority. But housing options in jax are pretty limited.
For us as well. We came down from Pittsburgh (and had to decide in weeks). Jacksonville (given the size) was quite a shock. We thought we would end up at the beach. We ended up on Hodges for years. We decided to buy a house in Avondale, but had to look at a lot of crap first before we bought. I think most people who come down here from the northeast are shocked by the difference in housing limitations.
I've noticed that Riverside/Avondale has a lot of pretty run down houses considering the prices people are asking. I guess that's why some houses are on the market for years.
We visited some that were falling down/ bad termite problems/ etc and they were asking 300,000 easy. Not much in a great city, but here??
It's one of the things I notice most when I come to Jax. Relativity is hard for me in terms of pricing because a 250 sf studio with no window/view, where I live, could sell for $400K+. Butttt, maybe it's just the fact that there is too much vegetation to maintain, but overall the city looks extremely unkempt, everywhere, all the time.
Something about yards...everyone seems to think they want one, especially a big one, but nobody fucking maintains them at all. Most people don't have the time, and they don't have the money for law/gardening services.
Wealthier areas in Jax with overgrown yards, paint peeling on otherwise really nice homes that could be mansions in some cities, and cars parked on lawns and sidewalks that haven't been maintained in 70+ years makes otherwise affluent/nice areas look more "ghetto" and gross to me than seedy, dense urban areas in our more urban centers.
My opinion of yards is akin to "eyes bigger than stomach" in food buffets. How about we double or triple density, start eliminating these massive yards, repairing sidewalks, and putting people on the streets (walking terms), and our play areas can be a park system that benefits from use, watchful eyes, and neighborly conviction, rather than the abandoned plots of mulch and unkempt grass/trees they are now.
^ Yeah, returning from Chicago after a few years, Riverside looked like some kind of weird rural ghetto (https://goo.gl/maps/mfr4e) where people haphazardly park on their front lawns and three bars make the biggest nightlife district in the city. But now I'm used to it again...
Lol, I'm sure y'all would be the experts on what qualifies as "rural", "ghetto", and "seedy".
Sorry if that was your house!
So all us seedy rural ghetto folks all look the same to you? ;D
Riverside definitely isn't the worst area in town. The point is that it's supposed to be Jax's premiere urban neighborhood but the prices don't reflect the reality. At least that is my complaint. I don't mind seedy rural ghetto as long as it's priced right.
So what would the right price point be for you for "seedy rural ghetto"? Honestly, I've found most prices in Riverside reflect "reality" more than any Bay Area community that I've ever been too.
I don't think the prices are competitive with the suburbs for the space, but the neighborhoods are wonderful.
I don't know about pricing, but neighborhoods like Riverside look pretty comparable to their siblings in other southern cities (ex. Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, Birmingham, Norfolk, New Orleans, etc.), in terms of lawn care and maintenance.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Tampa-Seminole-Heights/i-DZZngBs/0/M/DSCF5087-M.jpg)
Seminole Heights - Tampa, FL
I may be wrong but from what I can tell visually (no data backing me up), in denser cities in other climates, the yards (if they have them) are smaller in lot size and don't grow as fast during the summer months (easier to maintain).
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/San-Francisco-2015/i-dKhJ5DC/0/M/DSCF6738-M.jpg)
Much easier to maintain your front yard when it doesn't exist! - San Francisco, CA
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Washington-DC-2013/i-PGQTVWr/0/M/P1650957-M.jpg)
Or when it's limited in size. - Alexandria, VA
Also, there's more of a willingness in the local population (where there's decent walkability and reliable transit) to have less automobiles (a family may have 1 instead of +2) and to sacrifice number of street lanes for on-street parking.
See the images below. I believe if one proposed to one-way streets in local neighborhoods, in order to increase on-street parking and reduce vehicles in yards, you'd have a fight on your hands.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1948851188_z7ZMHmc-M.jpg)
Lakeview - Chicago, IL
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3408839507_nMcbZmR-M.jpg)
South Street - Philadelphia, PA
Just drove by the new Daily's site in San Marco and it looks like they are out there setting sheet piling. I'm presuming it's prep for tank installation. Looks like they are about to get moving on this thing.
^Yes, the permit was recently pulled:
Quote1916 Atlantic Blvd., new Daily's convenience store and gas station, $1.15 million, 5,000 square feet, plus a $250,000 car wash, C&R General Contractors. Car wash, $250,000. Daily's paid $1.6 million for a little more than an acre between Atlantic, Kings Avenue, Farragut Place and Olevia Street.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2015-08-01/story/sunday-business-notebook-dealerships-overhauling-cassat-avenue
Quote from: Live_Oak on July 30, 2015, 10:17:20 AM
Are you sure a bowling alley is going into 1012 King Street? Doesn't it seem a little small for a restaurant/bar and a bowling alley?
I did a little research and it seems as though Scott McAllister bought the old Phoenix Lanes on Blanding Blvd.
Might there be a mix up in some of the details?
Seriously, that building seems WAY too small for a 99 seat restaurant and bowling!
Quote from: Lunican on July 31, 2015, 10:19:39 PM
Riverside definitely isn't the worst area in town. The point is that it's supposed to be Jax's premiere urban neighborhood but the prices don't reflect the reality. At least that is my complaint. I don't mind seedy rural ghetto as long as it's priced right.
What does that mean and when was it supposed to be true of Riverside? Riverside may be the up and coming "hip" neighborhood, but I don't think the word premiere would apply (and urban is a stretch as well). Southbank would be the closest thing to premiere or urban, but Riverside is pretty typical for a neighborhood in the middle throes of gentrification.
And while the 3 bars thing was obviously a throw-away comment, I'll address that as well. 5 Points is not qualitatively different than commercial areas in similarly-sized neighborhoods in cities around the country. The real estate might be cheaper, but the business makeup and activity levels aren't a whole lot different. Same goes for the 1.5 blocks of King Street that are conducive to development. Compare that to any nightlife block in any other city, and its not exactly night and day. It's just that King Street only has a block or two of it.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on August 03, 2015, 02:48:39 PM
Quote from: Lunican on July 31, 2015, 10:19:39 PM
Riverside definitely isn't the worst area in town. The point is that it's supposed to be Jax's premiere urban neighborhood but the prices don't reflect the reality. At least that is my complaint. I don't mind seedy rural ghetto as long as it's priced right.
What does that mean and when was it supposed to be true of Riverside? Riverside may be the up and coming "hip" neighborhood, but I don't think the word premiere would apply (and urban is a stretch as well). Southbank would be the closest thing to premiere or urban, but Riverside is pretty typical for a neighborhood in the middle throes of gentrification.
I agree. There are other areas in the core that I would consider the premier areas. Like San Marco or Avondale between the shops and the river.
^I can understand Lunican's perspective. He's coming from living in a neighborhood (Lakeview in Chicago) with a population density of 30k per square mile to a place where the urban neighborhood density levels are generally less than 5k per square mile. That's a dramatic change in urban vibrancy, environment and scenery, no matter which way one slices it.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 03, 2015, 03:39:33 PM
^I can understand Lunican's perspective. He's coming from living in a neighborhood (Lakeview in Chicago) with a population density of 30k to a place where the urban neighborhood density levels are generally less than 5k. That's a dramatic change in urban vibrancy, environment and scenery, no matter which way one slices it.
I understand that perspective too, just not the idea that property is overpriced in Riverside (or in converse,
underpriced in trendy big city neighborhoods) simply based on what an individual prefers. Let alone that it's "ghetto". Though in general white people have a funny way of using that term.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 03, 2015, 04:14:09 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 03, 2015, 03:39:33 PM
^I can understand Lunican's perspective. He's coming from living in a neighborhood (Lakeview in Chicago) with a population density of 30k to a place where the urban neighborhood density levels are generally less than 5k. That's a dramatic change in urban vibrancy, environment and scenery, no matter which way one slices it.
I understand that perspective too, just not the idea that property is overpriced in Riverside (or in converse, underpriced in trendy big city neighborhoods) simply based on what an individual prefers. Let alone that it's "ghetto". Though in general white people have a funny way of using that term.
Riverside was a lot cheaper when I first moved there in 1995. But it was also not as nice. I don't think it's overpriced now, from what I know of it.