Jax vs. San Francisco: Same Size, Polar Opposites
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4192850372_JKdZspc-L.jpg)
Both Jacksonville and San Francisco have slightly over 850,000 residents within their city limits. In fact, according to the most recent census estimates, only 913 residents separate the two.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jul-jax-vs-san-francisco-same-size-polar-opposites
I have the feeling that if Jax transformed itself overnight to be like SF the author of this article would write something like, "Jax vs LA"...why can't we have more roads, walking sucks.
Try buying a house in San Francisco for under $800k...Pull up Zillow, $795k gets you a 2 bedroom / 1 bath apartment.
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on July 22, 2015, 01:30:07 PM
I have the feeling that if Jax transformed itself overnight to be like SF the author of this article would write something like, "Jax vs LA"...why can't we have more roads, walking sucks.
Why? The article explicitly states it's not about debating one way or another. It's simply a photo tour of 800k in a walkable and vibrant setting.
Btw, we have covered LA before. Here's a link: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-sep-elements-of-urbanism-los-angeles
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Los-Angeles-June-2011/i-bS66bmn/2/L/P1490524-L.jpg)
Downtown LA
Welp, LA is certainly far more popular with forumers! I rather like living in a place that has almost zero connection to Jacksonville, or really even the South in general. Adds a bit of mystery and allows me to live my life in peace :) good piece, next time you plan a trip let me know and I'll take you to a couple good food spots...check out the Mission too
Will do. I've also been called out by a few Bay area Vanguards for not contacting them during my brief 2 day visit. I'll definitely be back and set aside more time to explore SF, Oakland and even San Jose.
Major San Francisco Quake Expected 'Any Day Now'
http://news.sky.com/story/1523331/major-san-francisco-quake-expected-any-day-now
We just had a quake...no big deal. Apparently according to the NYT Seattle is going to fall into the sea in their big quake that's supposed to hot anyday, but they have a different tectonic system that can produce a much larger quake than the slip fault system we have in CA. I think we top out at 7ish while they can exceed a 9.
We have quakes all the time here in Alaska. In the past two weeks we have had 5.3 and 4.6.....last October we had a 6.2....and of course the largest one ever recorded in North America a 9.2 occurred here in 1964. Most Alaskans don't even bat an eye at anything under a 6. Building codes are quite good here for a reason the ground is constantly moving....haha
You all just wax on about the greatness of compact high density cities and public transportation without thinking for even a single second that the majority of people that live here might actually like this lifestyle better. We want big houses, big yards and we enjoy driving our big cars. And that living in a hyper dense city on top of each other, with no elbow room and sharing space with the rest of humanity would make us miserable.
This is a city that is built on a huge landmass. There is a zero percent chance that this city will transform into a highly dense primarily pedestrian and public transit city that appeals to the tiny minority urban hipster demographic.
Hi AngryChicken, welcome to the forum. I don't think anyone expects a small city like Jax to become some sort of first tier urban mecca. However, there is more than enough space for all of us in our city's 757 square miles. A vibrant 30 square mile historic core in the heart of a 757 square mile city isn't going to eliminate your options to live in a big house with a big yard. It's also not an attempt to stop you from driving your SUV. Why the hostility? Do you prefer what the core of our city looks like today over it being vibrant and generating many times as much tax revenue as it does currently?
My disagreeableness is part of my enduring charm.
What annoys me about most of the articles on this website is that they are written in a voice that assumes that high density urban living is the preferred choice of all and the defacto standard for high quality living with a dusting of "well they just don't get it do they?"
No we get it. Some of us have lived in "first tier" urban meccas, elbow to elbow on the train multiple times a day, shlepping our groceries from the tiny, shitty urban grocery stores on foot. And we decided that type of environment was no way to live. I feel like most of the people that post on this forum in support of that lifestyle have never had to commute on the subway for years touching hundreds of strangers, catching more colds and flus than you can count, enduring the hot Summer stench underground at the platform. Spending multiple thousands of dollars a month for 650sq/ft apartment with people living on every side of you - up down, left, right, below.
To move to this city - a drive my clean, quiet, air-conditioned car that doesn't smell like rodent feces and garbage to the most beautiful sight I've ever seen - a suburban Publix grocery store.
Some of us love and appreciate this lifestyle because we've lived high-density urban for years and it sucked.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 03, 2015, 05:57:20 PM
Hi AngryChicken, welcome to the forum. I don't think anyone expects a small city like Jax to become some sort of first tier urban mecca. However, there is more than enough space for all of us in our city's 757 square miles. A vibrant 30 square mile historic core in the heart of a 757 square mile city isn't going to eliminate your options to live in a big house with a big yard. It's also not an attempt to stop you from driving your SUV. Why the hostility? Do you prefer what the core of our city looks like today over it being vibrant and generating many times as much tax revenue as it does currently?
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 03, 2015, 05:35:12 PM
You all just wax on about the greatness of compact high density cities and public transportation without thinking for even a single second that the majority of people that live here might actually like this lifestyle better. We want big houses, big yards and we enjoy driving our big cars. And that living in a hyper dense city on top of each other, with no elbow room and sharing space with the rest of humanity would make us miserable.
This is a city that is built on a huge landmass. There is a zero percent chance that this city will transform into a highly dense primarily pedestrian and public transit city that appeals to the tiny minority urban hipster demographic.
Your chosen lifestyle is in danger. If Jax doesn't fix its lack of urbanity in the core, then you will no longer be able to live your suburban, big house, big yard, big cars lifestyle in a decade or two. It's quite simple. I'd think that if you really do care about it as you say, you would push to have a more sustainable metro area that can actually generate the taxes necessary to support all kinds of living.
fyi, there are plenty of non-hipsters who prefer urban living. And another fyi, it's not just about urban living...sustainable suburban living would be great too.
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 03, 2015, 06:20:11 PM
My disagreeableness is part of my enduring charm.
What annoys me about most of the articles on this website is that they are written in a voice that assumes that high density urban living is the preferred choice of all and the defacto standard for high quality living with a dusting of "well they just don't get it do they?"
No we get it. Some of us have lived in "first tier" urban meccas, elbow to elbow on the train multiple times a day, shlepping our groceries from the tiny, shitty urban grocery stores on foot. And we decided that type of environment was no way to live. I feel like most of the people that post on this forum in support of that lifestyle have never had to commute on the subway for years touching hundreds of strangers, catching more colds and flus than you can count, enduring the hot Summer stench underground at the platform. Spending multiple thousands of dollars a month for 650sq/ft apartment with people living on every side of you - up down, left, right, below.
To move to this city - a drive my clean, quiet, air-conditioned car that doesn't smell like rodent feces and garbage to the most beautiful sight I've ever seen - a suburban Publix grocery store.
Some of us love and appreciate this lifestyle because we've lived high-density urban for years and it sucked.
You disregarded Lake's point...which is one he makes very often so he really has remained consistent throughout. That is, no one is trying to remove your lifestyle, but rather create more options for everyone. Kinda like saying there's no good Italian food in Jax so let's try to focus on that. You don't need to get alarmed like we're concurrently attempting to ban all Sushi restaurants.
I think one of the perks of Jacksonville, is you can have the best of both worlds and chose to live urban or suburban, if only the downtown offered a real urban living experience. I think that is what most people are trying to get at here....our suburbs are fine, but we need to build up the downtown.
A Floridian like salute to the Left Coast from 1969.
https://youtu.be/j2ZXco32IRU
Song
http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/s/shango/day_after_day_its_slippin_away.html
Lyrics
Song by Shango:
Day after day, more people come to L... A...
Don't you tell anybody, the whole place's slipping away
Where can we go, when there's no San Francisco?
Better get ready to tie up the boat in Idaho
Do you know the swim, you better learn quick Jim
Those who don't know the swim, better sing the hymn
Tuna at the bowl
Find fillet of much sole!
Ooooo what can you do
With a bushel of wet gold?
Day after day, more people come to L... A.
Don't you tell anybody, the whole place's shaking away
Where can we go, when there's no San Francisco?
Better get ready to tie up the boat in Idaho
Where can we go, when there's no San Diego
Better get ready to tie up the boat in Idaho
Do you know the swim, you better learn quick Jim
Those who don't know the swim, better sing the hymn
Tuna at the bowl
Find fillet of much sole!
Ooooo what can you do
With a bushel of wet gold?
Day after day, more people come to L. A.
Don't you tell anybody, the whole place's shaking away
Where can we go, when there's no San Francisco?
Better get ready to tie up the boat in Idaho
Better get ready to tie up the boat in Idaho
Better get ready to tie up the boat in Idaho
Better get ready to tie up the boat in Idaho
Better get ready to tie up the boat in Idaho
Better get ready to tie up the boat in Idaho
No it isn't. Thats all of the leftist propaganda and claptrap that you've accepted as reality. There is no danger to this lifestyle in our lifetimes.
What none of you can accept is that a majority of the population in this city choose to life this way not out of ignorance or stupidity - but because we feel that this is simply a better way to live. That some of us have experienced life in the biggest and most dense urban cities in America and found the experience lacking and feel that low density living driving our own car is a superior way to live.
But none of you can reconcile that against your own propaganda can you?
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 03, 2015, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 03, 2015, 05:35:12 PM
You all just wax on about the greatness of compact high density cities and public transportation without thinking for even a single second that the majority of people that live here might actually like this lifestyle better. We want big houses, big yards and we enjoy driving our big cars. And that living in a hyper dense city on top of each other, with no elbow room and sharing space with the rest of humanity would make us miserable.
This is a city that is built on a huge landmass. There is a zero percent chance that this city will transform into a highly dense primarily pedestrian and public transit city that appeals to the tiny minority urban hipster demographic.
Your chosen lifestyle is in danger. If Jax doesn't fix its lack of urbanity in the core, then you will no longer be able to live your suburban, big house, big yard, big cars lifestyle in a decade or two. It's quite simple. I'd think that if you really do care about it as you say, you would push to have a more sustainable metro area that can actually generate the taxes necessary to support all kinds of living.
fyi, there are plenty of non-hipsters who prefer urban living. And another fyi, it's not just about urban living...sustainable suburban living would be great too.
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 04, 2015, 06:42:09 PM
No it isn't. Thats all of the leftist propaganda and claptrap that you've accepted as reality. There is no danger to this lifestyle in our lifetimes.
What none of you can accept is that a majority of the population in this city choose to life this way not out of ignorance or stupidity - but because we feel that this is simply a better way to live. That some of us have experienced life in the biggest and most dense urban cities in America and found the experience lacking and feel that low density living driving our own car is a superior way to live.
But none of you can reconcile that against your own propaganda can you?
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 03, 2015, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 03, 2015, 05:35:12 PM
You all just wax on about the greatness of compact high density cities and public transportation without thinking for even a single second that the majority of people that live here might actually like this lifestyle better. We want big houses, big yards and we enjoy driving our big cars. And that living in a hyper dense city on top of each other, with no elbow room and sharing space with the rest of humanity would make us miserable.
This is a city that is built on a huge landmass. There is a zero percent chance that this city will transform into a highly dense primarily pedestrian and public transit city that appeals to the tiny minority urban hipster demographic.
Your chosen lifestyle is in danger. If Jax doesn't fix its lack of urbanity in the core, then you will no longer be able to live your suburban, big house, big yard, big cars lifestyle in a decade or two. It's quite simple. I'd think that if you really do care about it as you say, you would push to have a more sustainable metro area that can actually generate the taxes necessary to support all kinds of living.
fyi, there are plenty of non-hipsters who prefer urban living. And another fyi, it's not just about urban living...sustainable suburban living would be great too.
Some of us believe in sustainability. Some of us believe in balancing the needs of our own lives with the needs of the earth and humanity as a whole. Some of us believe that resources are limited. Some of us don't feel the need to live in thousands of extra square feet or to have 1+ cars per person. Some of us who feel these things may hold your opposing viewpoints and personal *desires* (not needs) against you. Some of us may hold no judgment, but will not share your views. Call us "leftist" if you want, but you're only politicizing something that needs no politics.
Some of us believe that if 99% of the world shared your views, we would run out of space, water, food, and of course the fossil fuel resources to maintain that sort of indignant lifestyle for every man woman and child, in short order. Some of us believe that we are blessed with what we have, and that we shouldn't necessarily spoil ourselves based on a self-interested perspective that we are free to take as much advantage as humanly possible of every single blessing bestowed upon us. Some of us believe that a more self-interested (i.e. sprawled and limited-resource dependent) lifestyle should come at much greater cost than we currently charge people for it. Right now it's backwards - we are charging people more to live more sustainably within tighter bounds inside existing cities using existing infrastructure and limited resources, while subsidizing more and more people to consume more resources and take up more space than they actually need.
It should be the other way around. This is why I sometimes feel like the SE should be its own country. The W Coast its. The NE its. etc etc
There is plenty of entertainment that is just a comfortable car ride away or if you like to drink an Uber/cab ride away. Thats the thing - the car is a time machine that shrinks distance and allows us to spread out and have a little space to ourselves while at the same time still being able to experience the things that we want and like in life. With the car we don't have to live jam packed on top of each other and rely on slow, smelly, sometimes out of service public transportation to get where we need to get.
What shocks you and you can't comprehend is that people aren't choosing this lifestyle out of ignorance but because we like it. I've lived in NYC for years - commuted on the #6 train downtown to work for years and it sucked. The walk to the station in the rain sucked. The smell in the Summer sucked. Jamming into the cars during rush hour touching multiple strangers at the same time sucked. Out of service and service changes on the weekends sucked. Catching multiple colds and flus per year because you're exposed to so many people sucked.
The only thing that didn't suck about the #6 train - the street performers esp at the Union Square station @14th. But hardly worth all of the other indignities of having to rely on the subway.
I moved here specifically to avoid having to deal with that type of lifestyle - especially public transportation.
Not out of ignorance - but from a well formed personal decision based on the facts and how I wanted to live my life. It blows your mind doesn't it? Because your programming is to belittle and insult people that choose this lifestyle because we're stupid, or uninformed, or ignorant of the joys of big city living.
Nope. I love my car. I love my half an acre. I love Publix. I love my big house. And I love it all more than living on the Upper East side and taking the subway.
Quote from: stephendare on August 03, 2015, 06:29:05 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 03, 2015, 06:20:11 PM
My disagreeableness is part of my enduring charm.
What annoys me about most of the articles on this website is that they are written in a voice that assumes that high density urban living is the preferred choice of all and the defacto standard for high quality living with a dusting of "well they just don't get it do they?"
No we get it. Some of us have lived in "first tier" urban meccas, elbow to elbow on the train multiple times a day, shlepping our groceries from the tiny, shitty urban grocery stores on foot. And we decided that type of environment was no way to live. I feel like most of the people that post on this forum in support of that lifestyle have never had to commute on the subway for years touching hundreds of strangers, catching more colds and flus than you can count, enduring the hot Summer stench underground at the platform. Spending multiple thousands of dollars a month for 650sq/ft apartment with people living on every side of you - up down, left, right, below.
To move to this city - a drive my clean, quiet, air-conditioned car that doesn't smell like rodent feces and garbage to the most beautiful sight I've ever seen - a suburban Publix grocery store.
Some of us love and appreciate this lifestyle because we've lived high-density urban for years and it sucked.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 03, 2015, 05:57:20 PM
Hi AngryChicken, welcome to the forum. I don't think anyone expects a small city like Jax to become some sort of first tier urban mecca. However, there is more than enough space for all of us in our city's 757 square miles. A vibrant 30 square mile historic core in the heart of a 757 square mile city isn't going to eliminate your options to live in a big house with a big yard. It's also not an attempt to stop you from driving your SUV. Why the hostility? Do you prefer what the core of our city looks like today over it being vibrant and generating many times as much tax revenue as it does currently?
Perhaps you are projecting a bit. Many of us have lived in very dense cities, some of us are even posting from them. I don't think that people would like the problems that you underlined, but perhaps there is a downside to having to seek your entertainment from netflix or church on most nights, and not being able to afford a decent public transit/library/educational system because the entire budget is barely paying for the maintenance on the unnecessary sprawl infrastructure.
Or would, if there was enough money in the public coffers to do so. However, there isn't, so the city has to make decisions about which neighborhoods get basic services, and which ones don't, just to make the money go round. For some reason this leaves a lot of neighborhoods without wealthy people living in them to pretty much rot away until the sidewalks are a public danger and the schools aren't fit to train chihuahuas.
But if you could afford to spend multiple thousands of dollars per month on rent, then you will probably be fine. Welcome to our beautiful and well maintained upper middle class neighborhoods. They will be fabulous for at least another 15 years. (maybe). As long as you can suck the taxes our of the already existing residents whose infrastructure was already built but is no longer being maintained.
You are welcome for your clean drive and your beautiful suburban Publix grocery store. It came at the expense of thousands of kids not having public parks, good schools, or safe neighborhoods. As long as you can escape New York and have that 40 seconds of ecstasy it was worth it.
But maybe the discussion isn't about only one thing vs only another thing. Perhaps there is an equitable mix that allows people to choose the mode of life that they would like.
Also, if you look into it, I think you will find that there is often a difference between one large city and the next.... some of them are actually quite different from each other. Its odd that you only seemed to find one kind of life/neighborhood to live in in each of these first tier urban meccas that you described.
And now we get to the bottom of it... it isn't about quality of life it's about imposing your views of how we should live on everyone else.
Thanks for playing.
Quote from: simms3 on August 04, 2015, 06:54:05 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 04, 2015, 06:42:09 PM
No it isn't. Thats all of the leftist propaganda and claptrap that you've accepted as reality. There is no danger to this lifestyle in our lifetimes.
What none of you can accept is that a majority of the population in this city choose to life this way not out of ignorance or stupidity - but because we feel that this is simply a better way to live. That some of us have experienced life in the biggest and most dense urban cities in America and found the experience lacking and feel that low density living driving our own car is a superior way to live.
But none of you can reconcile that against your own propaganda can you?
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 03, 2015, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 03, 2015, 05:35:12 PM
You all just wax on about the greatness of compact high density cities and public transportation without thinking for even a single second that the majority of people that live here might actually like this lifestyle better. We want big houses, big yards and we enjoy driving our big cars. And that living in a hyper dense city on top of each other, with no elbow room and sharing space with the rest of humanity would make us miserable.
This is a city that is built on a huge landmass. There is a zero percent chance that this city will transform into a highly dense primarily pedestrian and public transit city that appeals to the tiny minority urban hipster demographic.
Your chosen lifestyle is in danger. If Jax doesn't fix its lack of urbanity in the core, then you will no longer be able to live your suburban, big house, big yard, big cars lifestyle in a decade or two. It's quite simple. I'd think that if you really do care about it as you say, you would push to have a more sustainable metro area that can actually generate the taxes necessary to support all kinds of living.
fyi, there are plenty of non-hipsters who prefer urban living. And another fyi, it's not just about urban living...sustainable suburban living would be great too.
Some of us believe in sustainability. Some of us believe in balancing the needs of our own lives with the needs of the earth and humanity as a whole. Some of us believe that resources are limited. Some of us don't feel the need to live in thousands of extra square feet or to have 1+ cars per person. Some of us who feel these things may hold your opposing viewpoints and personal *desires* (not needs) against you. Some of us may hold no judgment, but will not share your views. Call us "leftist" if you want, but you're only politicizing something that needs no politics.
Some of us believe that if 99% of the world shared your views, we would run out of space, water, food, and of course the fossil fuel resources to maintain that sort of indignant lifestyle for every man woman and child, in short order. Some of us believe that we are blessed with what we have, and that we shouldn't necessarily spoil ourselves based on a self-interested perspective that we are free to take as much advantage as humanly possible of every single blessing bestowed upon us. Some of us believe that a more self-interested (i.e. sprawled and limited-resource dependent) lifestyle should come at much greater cost than we currently charge people for it. Right now it's backwards - we are charging people more to live more sustainably within tighter bounds inside existing cities using existing infrastructure and limited resources, while subsidizing more and more people to consume more resources and take up more space than they actually need.
It should be the other way around. This is why I sometimes feel like the SE should be its own country. The W Coast its. The NE its. etc etc
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 04, 2015, 06:57:17 PM
I moved here specifically to avoid having to deal with that type of lifestyle - especially public transportation.
Not out of ignorance - but from a well formed personal decision based on the facts and how I wanted to live my life. It blows your mind doesn't it? Because your programming is to belittle and insult people that choose this lifestyle because we're stupid, or uninformed, or ignorant of the joys of big city living.
Nope. I love my car. I love my half an acre. I love Publix. I love my big house. And I love it all more than living on the Upper East side and taking the subway.
Great. To each his own. I'm truly glad you've found bliss. However, I fail to see what any of this has to do with enhancing Jax's urban core. No need for the hostility. Life is too short to get stressed out over what some of your neighbors may prefer.
Btw, tomorrow's front page article will really get your panties in a bunch....
How Jax Compares: The Different Faces of Density ;)
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 04, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
And now we get to the bottom of it... it isn't about quality of life it's about imposing your views of how we should live on everyone else.
Thanks for playing.
Quote from: simms3 on August 04, 2015, 06:54:05 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 04, 2015, 06:42:09 PM
No it isn't. Thats all of the leftist propaganda and claptrap that you've accepted as reality. There is no danger to this lifestyle in our lifetimes.
What none of you can accept is that a majority of the population in this city choose to life this way not out of ignorance or stupidity - but because we feel that this is simply a better way to live. That some of us have experienced life in the biggest and most dense urban cities in America and found the experience lacking and feel that low density living driving our own car is a superior way to live.
But none of you can reconcile that against your own propaganda can you?
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 03, 2015, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 03, 2015, 05:35:12 PM
You all just wax on about the greatness of compact high density cities and public transportation without thinking for even a single second that the majority of people that live here might actually like this lifestyle better. We want big houses, big yards and we enjoy driving our big cars. And that living in a hyper dense city on top of each other, with no elbow room and sharing space with the rest of humanity would make us miserable.
This is a city that is built on a huge landmass. There is a zero percent chance that this city will transform into a highly dense primarily pedestrian and public transit city that appeals to the tiny minority urban hipster demographic.
Your chosen lifestyle is in danger. If Jax doesn't fix its lack of urbanity in the core, then you will no longer be able to live your suburban, big house, big yard, big cars lifestyle in a decade or two. It's quite simple. I'd think that if you really do care about it as you say, you would push to have a more sustainable metro area that can actually generate the taxes necessary to support all kinds of living.
fyi, there are plenty of non-hipsters who prefer urban living. And another fyi, it's not just about urban living...sustainable suburban living would be great too.
Some of us believe in sustainability. Some of us believe in balancing the needs of our own lives with the needs of the earth and humanity as a whole. Some of us believe that resources are limited. Some of us don't feel the need to live in thousands of extra square feet or to have 1+ cars per person. Some of us who feel these things may hold your opposing viewpoints and personal *desires* (not needs) against you. Some of us may hold no judgment, but will not share your views. Call us "leftist" if you want, but you're only politicizing something that needs no politics.
Some of us believe that if 99% of the world shared your views, we would run out of space, water, food, and of course the fossil fuel resources to maintain that sort of indignant lifestyle for every man woman and child, in short order. Some of us believe that we are blessed with what we have, and that we shouldn't necessarily spoil ourselves based on a self-interested perspective that we are free to take as much advantage as humanly possible of every single blessing bestowed upon us. Some of us believe that a more self-interested (i.e. sprawled and limited-resource dependent) lifestyle should come at much greater cost than we currently charge people for it. Right now it's backwards - we are charging people more to live more sustainably within tighter bounds inside existing cities using existing infrastructure and limited resources, while subsidizing more and more people to consume more resources and take up more space than they actually need.
It should be the other way around. This is why I sometimes feel like the SE should be its own country. The W Coast its. The NE its. etc etc
You remind me of my mother. From the Upper Midwest, lived in NYC in the 70s, and Latin American cities thereafter, before arriving in Miami in the 80s, and now Jax. Her mind is pretty clouded. She is not a city person at all, having lived in several cities at their lowest points of existence. Now she watches Fox News and adores people like Hannity.
The *one* thing she gave me that is entirely priceless is a superior education. Given that so little financial resources are spread so thin in Jax and segregation is effectively real, limiting so many opportunities for so many people, I feel blessed to have gone to a prestigious private school that allowed me to eventually escape Jax/FL, where the economy is super limited, and now I live on my own and think my own thoughts.
What I notice is that many many people <35 (now the largest demographic in the US, soon to also be more politically powerful than the Boomers) have virtually the opposite viewpoint as their parents.
I hope you're prepared.
I also hope that if you raised your kids in Jax, that you treated them to a superior education with all that equity you likely built up in NYC, and allowed them to choose to leave and find jobs in big cities elsewhere. Because there is the real risk that you live a permanent vacation in FL and your kids find nothing better than a service industry job to take care of you/your generation as you age comfortably in place (assuming sea levels don't rise between now and +20-30 years). That would be a real shame. I have found that the politics that go into land use that results in extraordinary sprawl also seems to result in feeble economies and disparities in income/education between people, as well as a loss of culture and loss of awareness for humanity, since one becomes removed from other people outside of their social group when they live totally isolate lives in low density suburbs.
Like I said, some people may hold your views against you, some may simply disagree and keep it to themselves, and others may whole heartedly agree with your choices viewpoints. But a) there was no point in this thread except to showcase another city, until you with your 5 posts to date interjected and made yourself known as an anonymous **** of enormous magnitude (how about a "hey ya'll, how ya doin" before acting cunty?), and b) now the point is not of preventing sprawl and limiting people's choices, but going about things in a more equitable, sustainable, and logical way (we already have existing infrastructure to maintain - yet we choose not to spend a dime on it and just build more in a way that is entirely inefficient and unsustainable, at cost to taxpayers, including those who are living already in existing neighborhoods and seeing their sidewalks and roads crumbling at the expense of new roads being built for people who don't even live in the city or pay taxes yet).
So there you have it. If I were your son, I would likely have such a different life viewpoint that I wouldn't keep ties. I hope you didn't keep too tight a noose on your own children, but that they still love and respect you and perhaps share your viewpoint, naturally, on their own. It wasn't the case in my own house.
Looking forward to it. If it includes demographic profiles - make sure you include; people that moved out of dense urban areas to avoid the pitfalls of public transportation.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 04, 2015, 07:10:29 PM
Btw, tomorrow's front page article will really get your panties in a bunch....
How Jax Compares: The Different Faces of Density ;)
It will include a link that you can use to evaluate several demographic profiles for any neighborhood in the country.
One of the things that amazes me about life is that so few people really develop into their own person with their own unique perspective an outlook in life. Rather they seem to gravitate to one of many sub-cultures and then assume nearly all of that cultures belief systems. Why not develop into your own unique person vs swallow say the entire leftist-I-hate-America, capitalism is evil, people that live in the burbs and drive cars are unenlightened rubes hook line? I don't get it.
I lived in NYC until just a couple of months before 9/11. It wasn't during the porn and whores days in Times Square - it was good times. I didn't move here to retire - I moved here for primarily for career and business opportunities and that I felt like the taxation in NYC was borderline immoral. Who wants to pay more than have of their earnings to a corrupt government? Not me.
If you think there is no opportunity here in JAX you are living with your eyes closed or that superior education you got was a liberal arts, or history, or some other marketplace worthless degree. It's possible that because you live in the urban core of JAX (I assume) that you don't understand just how much commerce and opportunity is out there. This city is booming. You'd never know that North of the river or North of Riverside. The places that are booming are the places that you despise; Nocatee, along JTB, St. Johns county.
I'm sick of clicking over from News4JAX and reading the urban hipster circle jerk that gets posted here daily with the undertones of how f'n smart and superior you are and how everywhere else (insert hipster mecca; Portland, San Fran, NYC, etc. here) gets it and JAX and it's population of car loving rubes is too stupid to get it. I'm here to stand up for the under represented rubes and let you know - that we get it - some of us have lived it - and we love driving our cars and our huge suburban grocery stores. We also out number you about 300 to 1. So... if it's Portland or NYC that you want you need to grab a U-Haul and head that way because you're getting more of the same here.
Quote from: simms3 on August 04, 2015, 07:30:14 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 04, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
And now we get to the bottom of it... it isn't about quality of life it's about imposing your views of how we should live on everyone else.
Thanks for playing.
Quote from: simms3 on August 04, 2015, 06:54:05 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 04, 2015, 06:42:09 PM
No it isn't. Thats all of the leftist propaganda and claptrap that you've accepted as reality. There is no danger to this lifestyle in our lifetimes.
What none of you can accept is that a majority of the population in this city choose to life this way not out of ignorance or stupidity - but because we feel that this is simply a better way to live. That some of us have experienced life in the biggest and most dense urban cities in America and found the experience lacking and feel that low density living driving our own car is a superior way to live.
But none of you can reconcile that against your own propaganda can you?
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 03, 2015, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 03, 2015, 05:35:12 PM
You all just wax on about the greatness of compact high density cities and public transportation without thinking for even a single second that the majority of people that live here might actually like this lifestyle better. We want big houses, big yards and we enjoy driving our big cars. And that living in a hyper dense city on top of each other, with no elbow room and sharing space with the rest of humanity would make us miserable.
This is a city that is built on a huge landmass. There is a zero percent chance that this city will transform into a highly dense primarily pedestrian and public transit city that appeals to the tiny minority urban hipster demographic.
Your chosen lifestyle is in danger. If Jax doesn't fix its lack of urbanity in the core, then you will no longer be able to live your suburban, big house, big yard, big cars lifestyle in a decade or two. It's quite simple. I'd think that if you really do care about it as you say, you would push to have a more sustainable metro area that can actually generate the taxes necessary to support all kinds of living.
fyi, there are plenty of non-hipsters who prefer urban living. And another fyi, it's not just about urban living...sustainable suburban living would be great too.
Some of us believe in sustainability. Some of us believe in balancing the needs of our own lives with the needs of the earth and humanity as a whole. Some of us believe that resources are limited. Some of us don't feel the need to live in thousands of extra square feet or to have 1+ cars per person. Some of us who feel these things may hold your opposing viewpoints and personal *desires* (not needs) against you. Some of us may hold no judgment, but will not share your views. Call us "leftist" if you want, but you're only politicizing something that needs no politics.
Some of us believe that if 99% of the world shared your views, we would run out of space, water, food, and of course the fossil fuel resources to maintain that sort of indignant lifestyle for every man woman and child, in short order. Some of us believe that we are blessed with what we have, and that we shouldn't necessarily spoil ourselves based on a self-interested perspective that we are free to take as much advantage as humanly possible of every single blessing bestowed upon us. Some of us believe that a more self-interested (i.e. sprawled and limited-resource dependent) lifestyle should come at much greater cost than we currently charge people for it. Right now it's backwards - we are charging people more to live more sustainably within tighter bounds inside existing cities using existing infrastructure and limited resources, while subsidizing more and more people to consume more resources and take up more space than they actually need.
It should be the other way around. This is why I sometimes feel like the SE should be its own country. The W Coast its. The NE its. etc etc
You remind me of my mother. From the Upper Midwest, lived in NYC in the 70s, and Latin American cities thereafter, before arriving in Miami in the 80s, and now Jax. Her mind is pretty clouded. She is not a city person at all, having lived in several cities at their lowest points of existence. Now she watches Fox News and adores people like Hannity.
The *one* thing she gave me that is entirely priceless is a superior education. Given that so little financial resources are spread so thin in Jax and segregation is effectively real, limiting so many opportunities for so many people, I feel blessed to have gone to a prestigious private school that allowed me to eventually escape Jax/FL, where the economy is super limited, and now I live on my own and think my own thoughts.
What I notice is that many many people <35 (now the largest demographic in the US, soon to also be more politically powerful than the Boomers) have virtually the opposite viewpoint as their parents.
I hope you're prepared.
I also hope that if you raised your kids in Jax, that you treated them to a superior education with all that equity you likely built up in NYC, and allowed them to choose to leave and find jobs in big cities elsewhere. Because there is the real risk that you live a permanent vacation in FL and your kids find nothing better than a service industry job to take care of you/your generation as you age comfortably in place (assuming sea levels don't rise between now and +20-30 years). That would be a real shame. I have found that the politics that go into land use that results in extraordinary sprawl also seems to result in feeble economies and disparities in income/education between people, as well as a loss of culture and loss of awareness for humanity, since one becomes removed from other people outside of their social group when they live totally isolate lives in low density suburbs.
Like I said, some people may hold your views against you, some may simply disagree and keep it to themselves, and others may whole heartedly agree with your choices viewpoints. But a) there was no point in this thread except to showcase another city, until you with your 5 posts to date interjected and made yourself known as an anonymous **** of enormous magnitude (how about a "hey ya'll, how ya doin" before acting cunty?), and b) now the point is not of preventing sprawl and limiting people's choices, but going about things in a more equitable, sustainable, and logical way (we already have existing infrastructure to maintain - yet we choose not to spend a dime on it and just build more in a way that is entirely inefficient and unsustainable, at cost to taxpayers, including those who are living already in existing neighborhoods and seeing their sidewalks and roads crumbling at the expense of new roads being built for people who don't even live in the city or pay taxes yet).
So there you have it. If I were your son, I would likely have such a different life viewpoint that I wouldn't keep ties. I hope you didn't keep too tight a noose on your own children, but that they still love and respect you and perhaps share your viewpoint, naturally, on their own. It wasn't the case in my own house.
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 04, 2015, 09:30:07 PM
One of the things that amazes me about life is that so few people really develop into their own person with their own unique perspective an outlook in life. Rather they seem to gravitate to one of many sub-cultures and then assume nearly all of that cultures belief systems. Why not develop into your own unique person vs swallow say the entire leftist-I-hate-America, capitalism is evil, people that live in the burbs and drive cars are unenlightened rubes hook line? I don't get it.
I lived in NYC until just a couple of months before 9/11. It wasn't during the porn and whores days in Times Square - it was good times. I didn't move here to retire - I moved here for primarily for career and business opportunities and that I felt like the taxation in NYC was borderline immoral. Who wants to pay more than have of their earnings to a corrupt government? Not me.
If you think there is no opportunity here in JAX you are living with your eyes closed or that superior education you got was a liberal arts, or history, or some other marketplace worthless degree. It's possible that because you live in the urban core of JAX (I assume) that you don't understand just how much commerce and opportunity is out there. This city is booming. You'd never know that North of the river or North of Riverside. The places that are booming are the places that you despise; Nocatee, along JTB, St. Johns county.
I'm sick of clicking over from News4JAX and reading the urban hipster circle jerk that gets posted here daily with the undertones of how f'n smart and superior you are and how everywhere else (insert hipster mecca; Portland, San Fran, NYC, etc. here) gets it and JAX and it's population of car loving rubes is too stupid to get it. I'm here to stand up for the under represented rubes and let you know - that we get it - some of us have lived it - and we love driving our cars and our huge suburban grocery stores. We also out number you about 300 to 1. So... if it's Portland or NYC that you want you need to grab a U-Haul and head that way because you're getting more of the same here.
Quote from: simms3 on August 04, 2015, 07:30:14 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 04, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
And now we get to the bottom of it... it isn't about quality of life it's about imposing your views of how we should live on everyone else.
Thanks for playing.
Quote from: simms3 on August 04, 2015, 06:54:05 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 04, 2015, 06:42:09 PM
No it isn't. Thats all of the leftist propaganda and claptrap that you've accepted as reality. There is no danger to this lifestyle in our lifetimes.
What none of you can accept is that a majority of the population in this city choose to life this way not out of ignorance or stupidity - but because we feel that this is simply a better way to live. That some of us have experienced life in the biggest and most dense urban cities in America and found the experience lacking and feel that low density living driving our own car is a superior way to live.
But none of you can reconcile that against your own propaganda can you?
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 03, 2015, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 03, 2015, 05:35:12 PM
You all just wax on about the greatness of compact high density cities and public transportation without thinking for even a single second that the majority of people that live here might actually like this lifestyle better. We want big houses, big yards and we enjoy driving our big cars. And that living in a hyper dense city on top of each other, with no elbow room and sharing space with the rest of humanity would make us miserable.
This is a city that is built on a huge landmass. There is a zero percent chance that this city will transform into a highly dense primarily pedestrian and public transit city that appeals to the tiny minority urban hipster demographic.
Your chosen lifestyle is in danger. If Jax doesn't fix its lack of urbanity in the core, then you will no longer be able to live your suburban, big house, big yard, big cars lifestyle in a decade or two. It's quite simple. I'd think that if you really do care about it as you say, you would push to have a more sustainable metro area that can actually generate the taxes necessary to support all kinds of living.
fyi, there are plenty of non-hipsters who prefer urban living. And another fyi, it's not just about urban living...sustainable suburban living would be great too.
Some of us believe in sustainability. Some of us believe in balancing the needs of our own lives with the needs of the earth and humanity as a whole. Some of us believe that resources are limited. Some of us don't feel the need to live in thousands of extra square feet or to have 1+ cars per person. Some of us who feel these things may hold your opposing viewpoints and personal *desires* (not needs) against you. Some of us may hold no judgment, but will not share your views. Call us "leftist" if you want, but you're only politicizing something that needs no politics.
Some of us believe that if 99% of the world shared your views, we would run out of space, water, food, and of course the fossil fuel resources to maintain that sort of indignant lifestyle for every man woman and child, in short order. Some of us believe that we are blessed with what we have, and that we shouldn't necessarily spoil ourselves based on a self-interested perspective that we are free to take as much advantage as humanly possible of every single blessing bestowed upon us. Some of us believe that a more self-interested (i.e. sprawled and limited-resource dependent) lifestyle should come at much greater cost than we currently charge people for it. Right now it's backwards - we are charging people more to live more sustainably within tighter bounds inside existing cities using existing infrastructure and limited resources, while subsidizing more and more people to consume more resources and take up more space than they actually need.
It should be the other way around. This is why I sometimes feel like the SE should be its own country. The W Coast its. The NE its. etc etc
You remind me of my mother. From the Upper Midwest, lived in NYC in the 70s, and Latin American cities thereafter, before arriving in Miami in the 80s, and now Jax. Her mind is pretty clouded. She is not a city person at all, having lived in several cities at their lowest points of existence. Now she watches Fox News and adores people like Hannity.
The *one* thing she gave me that is entirely priceless is a superior education. Given that so little financial resources are spread so thin in Jax and segregation is effectively real, limiting so many opportunities for so many people, I feel blessed to have gone to a prestigious private school that allowed me to eventually escape Jax/FL, where the economy is super limited, and now I live on my own and think my own thoughts.
What I notice is that many many people <35 (now the largest demographic in the US, soon to also be more politically powerful than the Boomers) have virtually the opposite viewpoint as their parents.
I hope you're prepared.
I also hope that if you raised your kids in Jax, that you treated them to a superior education with all that equity you likely built up in NYC, and allowed them to choose to leave and find jobs in big cities elsewhere. Because there is the real risk that you live a permanent vacation in FL and your kids find nothing better than a service industry job to take care of you/your generation as you age comfortably in place (assuming sea levels don't rise between now and +20-30 years). That would be a real shame. I have found that the politics that go into land use that results in extraordinary sprawl also seems to result in feeble economies and disparities in income/education between people, as well as a loss of culture and loss of awareness for humanity, since one becomes removed from other people outside of their social group when they live totally isolate lives in low density suburbs.
Like I said, some people may hold your views against you, some may simply disagree and keep it to themselves, and others may whole heartedly agree with your choices viewpoints. But a) there was no point in this thread except to showcase another city, until you with your 5 posts to date interjected and made yourself known as an anonymous **** of enormous magnitude (how about a "hey ya'll, how ya doin" before acting cunty?), and b) now the point is not of preventing sprawl and limiting people's choices, but going about things in a more equitable, sustainable, and logical way (we already have existing infrastructure to maintain - yet we choose not to spend a dime on it and just build more in a way that is entirely inefficient and unsustainable, at cost to taxpayers, including those who are living already in existing neighborhoods and seeing their sidewalks and roads crumbling at the expense of new roads being built for people who don't even live in the city or pay taxes yet).
So there you have it. If I were your son, I would likely have such a different life viewpoint that I wouldn't keep ties. I hope you didn't keep too tight a noose on your own children, but that they still love and respect you and perhaps share your viewpoint, naturally, on their own. It wasn't the case in my own house.
I've done my fair share of stirring this pot. You keep going and you're not even a personality or regular or know poster on here. Just consider yourself lucky that the concept of "troll" does not exist on Metrojacksonville like it does on larger, more regulated online forums. You'd be banned in a heartbeat. Ice breakers and character development are usually prerequisites for purposely acting contrarian and antagonistic on discussion boards.
So it's "conforming" to prefer an "urban hipster lifestyle", but it's being your own person and forming your own opinions to prefer sprawl and a car dominated lifestyle in a sunbelt city (where that is clearly the dominant viewpoint/mentality/political perspective)? Ok...way to call the kettle black.
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 04, 2015, 09:30:07 PM
Why not develop into your own unique person vs swallow say the entire leftist-I-hate-America, capitalism is evil, people that live in the burbs and drive cars are unenlightened rubes hook line? I don't get it.
We also out number you about 300 to 1.
LOL, yeah the ones that outnumber the others 300 to 1 are the unique persons.
I think everyone in Jax would benefit if downtown was thriving. And everyone would benefit if sprawl could be curbed and infill promoted. I fail to see how this sort of stuff can actually be controversial.
I don't understand the logic? I get why you moved to Jacksonville, but not where you don't want us to have a thriving downtown. Why not have both? Even if our downtown got to where many posters want it to be, it'll never be comparable to a city like NYC.
Quote from: Adam White on August 05, 2015, 01:14:18 PM
And everyone would benefit if sprawl could be curbed and infill promoted.
"Jacksonville's" infill areas are being developed in a robust manner: infill target areas generally described as within the outlying boundary of Clay,St Johns and Nassau counties. Infill The First Coast.
It's really far too late in the game to look to curb "sprawl" in hopes of elevating Duval.
:)
San Francisco benefits from being largely surrounded by water. Adjoining county such as Marin is the growth management/community equivalent of Avondale. Lucky them! Consider the appearance and function of South Marin,overlooking San Francisco.
The Delta offers similar growth alteration drivers.
Here in NE Florida we are one big development block Glob.
I moved to the West side of Springfield you idiot. I believed all of the bullshit that never came true and likely never will.
Quote from: stephendare on August 05, 2015, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on August 05, 2015, 01:41:39 PM
I don't understand the logic? I get why you moved to Jacksonville, but not where you don't want us to have a thriving downtown. Why not have both? Even if our downtown got to where many posters want it to be, it'll never be comparable to a city like NYC.
He didn't move to Jacksonville apparently. He moved to one of the suburban counties.
I am liking and looking forward to the revitalization of downtown. I think that high density urban living is a terrible way to live. From my experience public transportation sucks and I live living in a big house with a big yard.
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on August 05, 2015, 01:41:39 PM
I don't understand the logic? I get why you moved to Jacksonville, but not where you don't want us to have a thriving downtown. Why not have both? Even if our downtown got to where many posters want it to be, it'll never be comparable to a city like NYC.
Quote from: AngryChicken on August 05, 2015, 08:03:08 PM
I moved to the West side of Springfield you idiot. I believed all of the bullshit that never came true and likely never will.
Quote from: stephendare on August 05, 2015, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on August 05, 2015, 01:41:39 PM
I don't understand the logic? I get why you moved to Jacksonville, but not where you don't want us to have a thriving downtown. Why not have both? Even if our downtown got to where many posters want it to be, it'll never be comparable to a city like NYC.
He didn't move to Jacksonville apparently. He moved to one of the suburban counties.
No need for personal insults. We do try and keep it clean around here. Can you share more about your experience in Springfield? What did you like or dislike about it?
San Francisco's homeless problem comes head to head with Super Bowl 50. San Fran is hiding it's homeless from the visitors in town; If you don't see the squalor then it isn't there, out of sight out of mind.... San Fran is listed as the '11th meanest city to the homeless' (Jax isn't listed in the top 20 BTW). Obviously everything isn't all hunky dory liberal concerning the unfortunate in the City by the Bay.
http://abc7news.com/sports/i-team-super-bowl-puts-strain-on-homeless-in-san-francisco/1184577/
http://www.nationalhomeless.org/publications/crimreport/meanest.html
^^^The info is legit on the links (ABC7 and the NCH). Try to debate with actual evidence instead of your usual shifting the topic (my travels), condescension, belittlement, shaming, or name calling.
Look at the video before commenting (as you like to say).
all cities do it when big events come to town. Atlanta did it with the Olympics, Charlotte with the Democratic convention, etc.
^^^I've been to Cali before. The accosting (whether it be a pamphlet handout or whatever) while at a fast food drive thru speaker, it's a different animal out there. I was just saying by San Fran being very liberal (not to disparage liberals) you'd think that they wouldn't rank one of the meanest cities for the homeless.
I don't think the point of the article is to bash Jax, and try to turn something that its not. But maybe when comparing it to other urban cities we can come up with ideas for improvement ("improvement" not "overhaul").
One thing I can say about living in Jax is, "Hey, I'm here aren't I?"