Seriously?? ::)
Quote(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/premium_415_wide_scale/car_3.jpg)
For those who prefer to back vehicles into their driveways, a proposal pending before City Council would make it illegal to park their cars that way unless their license plate information is clearly visible from the street. The proposed bill is aimed at cracking down on the visual blight that occurs when vehicle owners store cars that don't work on their property.
Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-06-24/story/jacksonville-council-looks-crack-down-backed-cars
This is only so JSO can check plate status from the street.
They passed a similar law up north where I used to live, it was to keep abandoned or "in progress" cars being worked on off driveways, but the police didn't want to have to enforce it on foot, so they made everyone park forward so the back plates could be clearly seen from the road.
Solution? Get a cover or go into the garage. Easy peasy.
I knew a guy who lost his license and parked his truck in his open ended garage and never drove it. Police came through, saw his plates and made him turn it around. Even though it was parked inside private property. He was smart, he asked me to move it, he thought the cops would bust him if he sat in the drivers seat.
Overall I think this is a reach. We have more important enforcement actions to take care of. JSO already surfs my employers private employee parking lot for tag violators. They ticketed someone from Clay County and he went to court and beat it. Said that a JSO enforcement officer didn't have jurisdiction over a Clay County issued plate even though it was still Florida. Kinda odd.
With JSO already short on officers, who, exactly, is going to enforce this?
Code enforcement
Not sure if he's still on the job but there used to be one code enforcement-er always on the Westside that would cruise through then FCCJ Kent Campus busting people for just about anything non-moving related. I used to back into spots just because America...
Quote from: thelakelander on June 24, 2015, 10:17:16 PM
Seriously?? ::)
Quote
For those who prefer to back vehicles into their driveways, a proposal pending before City Council would make it illegal to park their cars that way unless their license plate information is clearly visible from the street. The proposed bill is aimed at cracking down on the visual blight that occurs when vehicle owners store cars that don't work on their property.
Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-06-24/story/jacksonville-council-looks-crack-down-backed-cars
Land of the free ? ??? :o
Any motorized vehicle, battery, gas, "Metrojax hot air"-maybe a stretch, needs to have a tag on it and this is really only a ploy to get those with junk cars to register the cars or get them off the streets. Use of asphalt by a motored vehicle is anything.....but free.
Quote from: mtraininjax on June 25, 2015, 06:00:02 AM
Any motorized vehicle, battery, gas, "Metrojax hot air"-maybe a stretch, needs to have a tag on it and this is really only a ploy to get those with junk cars to register the cars or get them off the streets. Use of asphalt by a motored vehicle is anything.....but free.
Wasn't the ordinance about how to park a car on private property (drive way)?
Quote from: Gunnar on June 25, 2015, 04:31:08 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 24, 2015, 10:17:16 PM
Seriously?? ::)
Quote
For those who prefer to back vehicles into their driveways, a proposal pending before City Council would make it illegal to park their cars that way unless their license plate information is clearly visible from the street. The proposed bill is aimed at cracking down on the visual blight that occurs when vehicle owners store cars that don't work on their property.
Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-06-24/story/jacksonville-council-looks-crack-down-backed-cars
Land of the free ? ??? :o
Somebody Lied.
So I pull a trailer that I park in my garage. If this passes, I will have to back the trailer in, unhook, then turn the truck around to park so that the tag can be seen. Then the next morning, I will have to back out of the driveway, turn around and then back up to hook up....I will have to do this everyday as opposed to just backing the trailer in and then dropping it and closing the garage door. That is idiotic and shows that the city council can't solve problems. If this is a REAL issue, maybe Florida just goes to front license plates like in other states such as California...
Does a vehicle on private property need a license plate?
Quote from: Lunican on June 25, 2015, 08:59:09 AM
Does a vehicle on private property need a license plate?
It's supposed to be registered from my understanding.
I think you are right, but only if it's visible from the street. Thankfully we can still fill our backyards with junk cars.
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on June 25, 2015, 08:39:18 AM
Quote from: Gunnar on June 25, 2015, 04:31:08 AM
Land of the free ? ??? :o
Somebody Lied.
Nope, it was the land of the free. People just keep voting for bigger government thinking it will solve all the problems. This is what government does, it can't control itself.
Stop voting for candidates that openly say they'll expand government!
Sounds ridiculous but if it's that much of an issue why don't they just make everyone put on a front license plate instead?
Quote from: David on June 25, 2015, 10:07:11 AM
Sounds ridiculous but if it's that much of an issue why don't they just make everyone put on a front license plate instead?
That's my thought. California does it. If it's such a big deal (which it's not), then just add the front plate.
Quote from: Gunnar on June 25, 2015, 04:31:08 AMLand of the free ? ??? :o
*Offer not valid in all 50 states. Terms and Conditions may apply.
This new law could have lethal consequences.
Why you ask?
A lot of people, myself included, live where there are neighborhood children playing outside, sometimes in the street.
It is much safer for a car to exit a driveway without backing up as you may not see a child (or a pet perhaps) walking from the side into the path of your car. Back up cameras only help to some degree but are not foolproof.
You read about these tragedies every so often. Invariably the headline is: 'Car backs over a child'.
Please City Council, do not pass this legislation. If this law causes a death it will be a tragedy on so many levels and perhaps may even open the city up to a liability lawsuit from the estate of the deceased.
Ya'll better watch out or that big garbage can is going to come and kick your ass.
I don't see the big deal. There is already an ordinance that any vehicle in view from a public street has to be registered and in operating condition. To prevent people from parking abandoned and junk cars all over their yards. Code compliance enforces this, not the police. The issue is that code compliance can't step foot on your property so they have to be able to verify that a code is in violation from the street unless you give them permission to come onto your property. So park your junked cars backwards and they can't cite you. This fixes that "loophole". So unless you have a truly junk vehicle in your driveway that your neighbors are calling in code complaints on you don't have anything to worry about.
Quote from: acme54321 on June 25, 2015, 10:43:19 AM
I don't see the big deal. There is already an ordinance that any vehicle in view from a public street has to be registered and in operating condition. To prevent people from parking abandoned and junk cars all over their yards. Code compliance enforces this, not the police. The issue is that code compliance can't step foot on your property so they have to be able to verify that a code is in violation from the street unless you give them permission to come onto your property. So park your junked cars backwards and they can't cite you. This fixes that "loophole". So unless you have a truly junk vehicle in your driveway that your neighbors are calling in code complaints on you don't have anything to worry about.
So it's not a big deal to you? What about the people that live on private estates around Jacksonville Florida. Or gated community's shouldn't they have their vehicles parked so the JSO can review these plates also. What's good for the Goose is good for the gander? Right
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on June 25, 2015, 11:11:44 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on June 25, 2015, 10:43:19 AM
I don't see the big deal. There is already an ordinance that any vehicle in view from a public street has to be registered and in operating condition. To prevent people from parking abandoned and junk cars all over their yards. Code compliance enforces this, not the police. The issue is that code compliance can't step foot on your property so they have to be able to verify that a code is in violation from the street unless you give them permission to come onto your property. So park your junked cars backwards and they can't cite you. This fixes that "loophole". So unless you have a truly junk vehicle in your driveway that your neighbors are calling in code complaints on you don't have anything to worry about.
So it's not a big deal to you? What about the people that live on private estates around Jacksonville Florida. Or gated community's shouldn't they have their vehicles parked so the JSO can review these plates also. What's good for the Goose is good for the gander? Right
What? Did you even read my post?
JSO doesn't enforce this. Code compliance does. Code compliance doesn't do anything unless someone complains. If you live on a "private estate" that isn't visible from the road, who cares?
Long story short this makes a city ordinance that has been on the books for years enforceable. IMO, not a big deal.
"JSO doesn't enforce this. Code compliance does. Code compliance doesn't do anything unless someone complains. If you live on a "private estate" that isn't visible from the road, who cares?"
Actually thats not correct. About 60% of the cases for code enforcement are generated by officers themselves who have to be pro-active. Its part of their performance measures. Also code officers can indeed step onto your property without permission. On a direct path from the street to your front door. If the offending vehicles tag area is visible from the front door it can be cited. If its back far enough that it can't be seen from the front door it can't.
OK you got me, that was an exaggeration. From what I can tell though it depends on your neighborhood as to how proactive (or harassing) they are. I rarely see them in my area. Also didn't know about the path to the front door thing. We had one tell my neighbor that unless they could see it from the street they can't do anything about it (in response to a junk car in the front yard of a house down the street).
If the vehicles tag can't be seen from the street or the front door, than thats correct. They can't cite it. Anything in a backyard can't be cited, unless they get permission from a neighbor to look at it from the neighbors backyard. They aren't even allowed to look over a 6 foot fence or hold the camera over their heads and take a picture over a fence.
Quote from: menace1069 on June 25, 2015, 10:14:35 AM
Quote from: David on June 25, 2015, 10:07:11 AM
Sounds ridiculous but if it's that much of an issue why don't they just make everyone put on a front license plate instead?
That's my thought. California does it. If it's such a big deal (which it's not), then just add the front plate.
A who will pay for that? I really don't feel like I should have to pay for them to inspect my private property ON my private property. If it's on the street that's one thing, but not on my property.
I agree with you. If it's a junk car and unsightly, they can cite you for that separately. Citing you for expired registration is just a $$$$ play, that I don't think that should extend onto private property, so long as the vehicle is not causing a nuisance, or is unsightly, etc.
What's really being discussed here is MCCD wants the ability to run around collecting money for expired tags on private property and apparently finds it too much of a hassle to leave the air conditioned comfort of their city-owned vehicles to check the tag. So instead we're going to pass a law governing how people are allowed to park their cars on private property.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on June 25, 2015, 02:03:49 PM
I agree with you. If it's a junk car and unsightly, they can cite you for that separately. Citing you for expired registration is just a $$$$ play, that I don't think that should extend onto private property, so long as the vehicle is not causing a nuisance, or is unsightly, etc.
See that's the thing. How can you fault someone for having a shitty car? You can't. You can cite someone for having a shitty car that's "abandoned" and undrivable. The registration is about the only legal way to prove if a car is drivable or not. Problem is that it's backwards in the driveway with no way to prove that it's not registered. How else could they prove a vehicle is abandoned?
We have a house down the road with multiple cars in the driveway (all backwards) that haven't moved in 5 years, literally. MCCD can't do anything about it because they can't see the plates. Coming from first hand experience with this issue, I see it as a legit solution to an ongoing issue.
What's really being discussed here is MCCD wants the ability to run around collecting money for expired tags on private property and apparently finds it too much of a hassle to leave the air conditioned comfort of their city-owned vehicles to check the tag. So instead we're going to pass a law governing how people are allowed to park their cars on private property.
[/quote]
Chris, here is the reason inspectors cannot see the tags "from the comfort of their air conditioned cars". By law, an MCCD officeR cannot walk up your driveway to look at the tag on a car thats backed up IF that path is not a direct path to the front door. If the path to the front door takes theM past the back of the car then yes they can see it and they can cite it. If the back of the car is beyond that point they can't. MCCD inspectors cite hundreds of cars every month. Do a public records request and you can get the details, same as I did.
Quote from: David on June 25, 2015, 10:07:11 AM
Sounds ridiculous but if it's that much of an issue why don't they just make everyone put on a front license plate instead?
That's why states like Virginia require front and back plates.
I guess I will get cited and see the city in court as there is no way anyone is gonna tell me I can only park in a certain direction.
Ain't gonna happen.
Quote from: acme54321 on June 25, 2015, 02:33:16 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on June 25, 2015, 02:03:49 PM
I agree with you. If it's a junk car and unsightly, they can cite you for that separately. Citing you for expired registration is just a $$$$ play, that I don't think that should extend onto private property, so long as the vehicle is not causing a nuisance, or is unsightly, etc.
See that's the thing. How can you fault someone for having a shitty car? You can't. You can cite someone for having a shitty car that's "abandoned" and undrivable. The registration is about the only legal way to prove if a car is drivable or not. Problem is that it's backwards in the driveway with no way to prove that it's not registered. How else could they prove a vehicle is abandoned?
We have a house down the road with multiple cars in the driveway (all backwards) that haven't moved in 5 years, literally. MCCD can't do anything about it because they can't see the plates. Coming from first hand experience with this issue, I see it as a legit solution to an ongoing issue.
This is an idiotic solution to a limited problem (your neighbors down the street notwithstanding). If someone's got a shitty car don't they have enough problems in their life without the city coming and fucking with them and making them pay bullshit fines? They're already poor or they wouldn't have a piece of shit car! Or maybe they would live in a nicer house with a garage where they could hide it. But they're poor so let's charge them more money or put them in jail so they can lose their presumably shitty job and get even further behind.
It's this kind of nitpicky nickel and diming that drives poor people past the breaking point. If you'll remember the city of Ferguson has been paying the bills for years by legally stealing from poor people. That usually doesn't work out well. Warren Jones should damn well know better.
One crappy car doesn't bother me, there's just that certain personality type that accumulates a bunch of crappy cars in the yard, and that's what's mildly annoying. The minimum wage dude with one crappy car I wouldn't pick on, I'm really not 'that' guy. It's that 1 in 10 or 20 people who'll wind up with a redneck sanford & son style junkyard going next door that's the problem. Tell me with a straight face you don't know that's true...
That said, I'm against what they're doing. It's yet another government incursion into private property, I'm against it on principle.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on June 25, 2015, 08:07:06 PM
One crappy car doesn't bother me, there's just that certain personality type that accumulates a bunch of crappy cars in the yard, and that's what's mildly annoying. The minimum wage dude with one crappy car I wouldn't pick on, I'm really not 'that' guy. It's that 1 in 10 or 20 people who'll wind up with a redneck sanford & son style junkyard going next door that's the problem. Tell me with a straight face you don't know that's true...
That said, I'm against what they're doing. It's yet another government incursion into private property, I'm against it on principle.
I agree I wouldn't want to live next to Fred G. Sanford. But there must be other ordinances on the books to help deal with something like this. And while you and I wouldn't want to pick on the minimum wage guy, the power-hungry dork from the city won't see it that way - they'll say that they have to enforce the law equally, which usually means that the minimum wage guys are the ones who will bear the brunt of this.
Has data been provided that gives an indication of how many unregistered cars are backed into driveways? Is it dozens, thousands, tens of thousands? This sounds more like fundraising. The word on this type of law is seldom well distributed and so most won't even know it was passed (if it is) so in the beginning, lots of ticket revenue from the "innocent" person who does have a registered car and just backs it in. Or covered his pride and joy. MCCD has this bad habit of interpreting ordinances in the best way to cause grief to the public. In fact, they often misquote the ordinance in their reports to make them worse than what they are. They make people jump through hoops that really do not exist. They ignore the laws they do not like. Giving this department any more power over the public should be a sin.
Quote from: Ajax on June 26, 2015, 08:22:15 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on June 25, 2015, 08:07:06 PM
One crappy car doesn't bother me, there's just that certain personality type that accumulates a bunch of crappy cars in the yard, and that's what's mildly annoying. The minimum wage dude with one crappy car I wouldn't pick on, I'm really not 'that' guy. It's that 1 in 10 or 20 people who'll wind up with a redneck sanford & son style junkyard going next door that's the problem. Tell me with a straight face you don't know that's true...
That said, I'm against what they're doing. It's yet another government incursion into private property, I'm against it on principle.
I agree I wouldn't want to live next to Fred G. Sanford. But there must be other ordinances on the books to help deal with something like this. And while you and I wouldn't want to pick on the minimum wage guy, the power-hungry dork from the city won't see it that way - they'll say that they have to enforce the law equally, which usually means that the minimum wage guys are the ones who will bear the brunt of this.
That is supposed to be the point of the No-Back-In ordinance. If a car has current registration (tag), no matter how crappy it looks, it cannot be cited as a "junk car". If that derelict looking car next door has a current tag, I don't think there is anything Code Enforcement can do. Since we only have tags on the back, the only way CE can check from the street, is if the car isn't backed in. The new law does allow you to back in or cover your car, but you must clearly display the tag number, so it is visible from the street.
Quote from: Ajax on June 25, 2015, 06:26:06 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on June 25, 2015, 02:33:16 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on June 25, 2015, 02:03:49 PM
I agree with you. If it's a junk car and unsightly, they can cite you for that separately. Citing you for expired registration is just a $$$$ play, that I don't think that should extend onto private property, so long as the vehicle is not causing a nuisance, or is unsightly, etc.
See that's the thing. How can you fault someone for having a shitty car? You can't. You can cite someone for having a shitty car that's "abandoned" and undrivable. The registration is about the only legal way to prove if a car is drivable or not. Problem is that it's backwards in the driveway with no way to prove that it's not registered. How else could they prove a vehicle is abandoned?
We have a house down the road with multiple cars in the driveway (all backwards) that haven't moved in 5 years, literally. MCCD can't do anything about it because they can't see the plates. Coming from first hand experience with this issue, I see it as a legit solution to an ongoing issue.
This is an idiotic solution to a limited problem (your neighbors down the street notwithstanding). If someone's got a shitty car don't they have enough problems in their life without the city coming and fucking with them and making them pay bullshit fines? They're already poor or they wouldn't have a piece of shit car! Or maybe they would live in a nicer house with a garage where they could hide it. But they're poor so let's charge them more money or put them in jail so they can lose their presumably shitty job and get even further behind.
It's this kind of nitpicky nickel and diming that drives poor people past the breaking point. If you'll remember the city of Ferguson has been paying the bills for years by legally stealing from poor people. That usually doesn't work out well. Warren Jones should damn well know better.
What? Did you even read my post you quoted? No one is blaming anyone for having a shitty car. I have one myself. It's 16 years old and beat, but it's registered and I drive it. This doesn't have anything to do with making poor people poorer. It is actually giving teeth to an existing ordinance that is to combat people with junkyards in their driveways.
Quote from: menace1069 on June 25, 2015, 08:52:22 AM
If this is a REAL issue, maybe Florida just goes to front license plates like in other states such as California...
It's not and NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.
Quote from: menace1069 on June 25, 2015, 08:52:22 AM
So I pull a trailer that I park in my garage. If this passes, I will have to back the trailer in, unhook, then turn the truck around to park so that the tag can be seen. Then the next morning, I will have to back out of the driveway, turn around and then back up to hook up....I will have to do this everyday as opposed to just backing the trailer in and then dropping it and closing the garage door. That is idiotic and shows that the city council can't solve problems. If this is a REAL issue, maybe Florida just goes to front license plates like in other states such as California...
I'm unsure if anyone has brought this to your attention, but if you read the entire, short article you would see this sentence '
"The bill filed by City Councilman Warren Jones says that if a vehicle's tag isn't visible from the street, the owner must write down that information with 2-inch tall letters and post it in a location that inspectors can easily see from the street."
It's not rocket science to read and place a 2 inch card w/ info up front. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Lots of panic for no reason and NO this doesn't mean the government is taking over or you no longer "live in the land of the free".
False Hysterics.
^ Thank You.