QuoteBy Karen Mathis, Managing Editor
An unidentified international banking and finance company proposes to bring 123 jobs Downtown in exchange for almost $1.8 million in city and state incentives.
"Project Post," as the city Office of Economic Development calls it, asks for $393,600 in city incentives and $1.37 million in state assistance.
The financial accounting and management jobs would pay an average of $64,356 a year, plus benefits of $20,000.
Project Post would set up a new global banking shared services office. It does not have a Jacksonville presence now.
The city is keeping the name confidential.
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=545652
All downtown jobs are great, but how many people would be enticed to live in 32202?
UBS
That comes to $14.6K per job. Kinda steep.
And mtrain, those of us who live in 32202 LOVE IT!
QuoteAn unidentified international banking and finance company proposes to bring 123 jobs Downtown in exchange for almost $1.8 million in city and state incentives.
Quote from: spuwho on June 18, 2015, 09:58:25 AM
UBS
They already got a $59.2 billion government bailout, what's $1.8 million more?
$14.6k is a little steep, but $10k per person is about the going rate in Jax. I did some research and Adecco and Deutsche Bank both got about $10k per employee that they brought to Jax. The DB number now could be argued much lower because I don't think they have received the same amount of funding as they have grown organically in this office, but the city still spent a pretty penny to move them here.
As long as these would be jobs that are new to the city (as opposed to moving from the burbs, which is still good just not $14k good) I say go for it.
This is legal bribery. What is worse is that the bank is attempting to do this anonymously.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on June 18, 2015, 02:42:07 PM
$14.6k is a little steep, but $10k per person is about the going rate in Jax. I did some research and Adecco and Deutsche Bank both got about $10k per employee that they brought to Jax. The DB number now could be argued much lower because I don't think they have received the same amount of funding as they have grown organically in this office, but the city still spent a pretty penny to move them here.
As long as these would be jobs that are new to the city (as opposed to moving from the burbs, which is still good just not $14k good) I say go for it.
I agree. And it sounds like exactly the kind of company that employs the kind of person who would live in a market rate loft/condo/apartment downtown, frequent bars, and walk to work when possible. "Financial districts" don't exist in some cities for no reason.
Not sure why all the haters are getting all political because it sounds like it might be one of those "evil banks", but sure, let's wait around a few years for another one of these opportunities and hope it's not a bank so that we feel "better" about giving it incentives not just to move jobs to Jax, but to DOWNTOWN Jax.
Frankly, 123 downtown jobs paid for with $1.8M in incentives could create somewhat of a market for Laura St Trio. What if there are more downtown jobs and more demand for downtown living as a result. The developers of LST might need less in incentives. What comes around goes around.
All the hypocrites clamoring for incentives just to rehab some falling-down buildings but scoffing at [small] incentives to create an employment/housing base in the first place. I swear some people can't see the forest from the trees.
Fully agree Simms.
We are small potatoes compared to larger, more connected cities. If this was NYC, you really don't have to pay anyone to come set up shop. But this is Jacksonville. Almost every other citypays "incentives" (bribes) to bring in the same businesses. We have to compete.
More jobs= more services=more demand for flights= better chance at landing more companies = more money slushing around the city= good!
Quote from: simms3 on June 18, 2015, 04:20:53 PM
Frankly, 123 downtown jobs paid for with $1.8M in incentives could create somewhat of a market for Laura St Trio. What if there are more downtown jobs and more demand for downtown living as a result. The developers of LST might need less in incentives. What comes around goes around.
All the hypocrites clamoring for incentives just to rehab some falling-down buildings but scoffing at [small] incentives to create an employment/housing base in the first place. I swear some people can't see the forest from the trees.
+1. Filling 100+ positions at the quoted average salary point would require this employer to look well outside of Jax, meaning the vast majority would be moving here looking for somewhere to live. This would help the current stock of downtown options (berkman, carling, 11E, 220 riverside, Brooklyn, etc.) fill, which would in turn create the need for additional downtown housing, such as the LST.
COJ is only being asked for $3,200 per job. The remainder comes from a state program that has set parameters a company must meet to qualify.
As I've been saying for years on here, downtown workers are far less likely to live outside of Duval. So essentially COJ is paying $3,200 to bring new high paying jobs to Jax, while stimulating downtown/surrounding neighborhoods, and keeping more revenue in the county. That's sound public investment in my opinion.
Quote from: ben america on June 18, 2015, 02:51:13 PM
This is legal bribery. What is worse is that the bank is attempting to do this anonymously.
It seems to me that this is how companies operate nowadays - avoid paying any taxes and ask for money to open offices in the first place.
I don't have a problem with it. Especially, when we're funding new growth opportunities around SR 9B at the tune of $150 million.
Too bad most of them will be liviing in stjohns county like everyone else thats moving here...it blackmail....weve closed libraries..given away umpteen million to millionaires who dont need it..i swear this city screw itsself every chance that come around.
Quote from: simms3 on June 18, 2015, 04:07:05 PM
And it sounds like exactly the kind of company that employs the kind of person who would live in a market rate loft/condo/apartment downtown, frequent bars, and walk to work when possible.
This is pure speculation on your part. If anything it would be the opposite. Bankers aren't generally known for their cutting-edge lifestyles.
Quote from: Rob68 on June 19, 2015, 08:13:18 AM
Too bad most of them will be liviing in stjohns county like everyone else thats moving here...
Exactly.
They'll eat at struggling DT restaurants and if the average wage is $64k, the majority won't be commuting from a single family home in SJC.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 08:38:24 AM
...if the average wage is $64k, the majority won't be commuting from a single family home in SJC.
Why not? The average household income in SJC is $64,876. If there are two wage earners working at USB they could double that.
That's not the average household income of Northern SJC. I suspect the average household of Northern SJC is much larger. Nevertheless, call it a hunch. I work in the EverBank building in DT and the majority of people I've had conversations with over the years don't live in/commute from SJC. Judging from our roadway AADTs, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a stronger link between the office parks in the Southside and SJC, moreso than SJC and DT.
No one commutes from SJC in my office. No one lives DT either. I'm the closest to SJC and I stay off JTB. Overall, we're a mixed bag....Jax Beach, Southside, Riverside, Oceanway, etc. I suspect if these are new jobs, you'll end up with a similar mix.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 09:08:29 AM
...the majority of people I've had conversations with over the years don't live in/commute from SJC.
Anecdote ≠ data. How many of the Adecco and Deutsche Bank people ended up living close-in? That would be a much better gauge.
Neither Adecco or Deutsche are downtown. There is a strong connection between the newer office parks along JTB, Baymeadows and Bartram Park and northern SJC. Both Adecco and Deutsche have decided to locate in these areas. Being in the EverBank building, I've witnessed with my own eyes the benefit that the small businesses enjoy, being exposed to an extra 2,000 workers a day.
Btw, Orlando, Tampa, Miami, and everywhere else in the state want to thank the posters in the thread for lobbying to divert more state dollars their way.
As I said earlier, this would cost $3,200 per job from COJ. While securing $11,138 per job from the state. This is like a getting a 4-1 match in your 401k from your employer. Practically free money.
QuoteAnecdote ≠ data. How many of the Deutsche Bank people ended up living close-in?
Not many.
QuoteBtw, Orlando, Tampa, Miami, and everywhere else in the state want to thank the posters in the thread for lobbying to divert more state dollars their way.
Exactly.
Quote from: CityLife on June 19, 2015, 09:37:14 AM
Btw, Orlando, Tampa, Miami, and everywhere else in the state want to thank the posters in the thread for lobbying to divert more state dollars their way.
As I said earlier, this would cost $3,200 per job from COJ. While securing $11,138 per job from the state. This is like a getting a 4-1 match in your 401k from your employer. Practically free money.
At $3,200 per employee, this is one of the cheapest ways COJ can bring jobs to jacksonville. The deepening of the port will cost about $30k per employee (using one of the middle of the road job numbers, not the insane 50,000 "indirect" jobs) and at least in this situation controls can be put in place. Usually the money is conditional on the company actually bringing in the promised number of employees. For the port, there is no guaranty that the jobs will come and no recourse for the city when they don't.
As lake stated, this is far cheaper than what the city is providing to companies who will possibly locate on the newly developed 9B parcels. We spent $150M just to build a road for them, we will probably still have to give them incentives to relocate to Jax, and we will have to pay for the new services (fire, police, etc) to support an area that was previously swamp and forest and outside the previous areas of coverage.
With an 123 additional people downtown at an average salary of $65k, you'll get at minimum an additional $50k-$150k spent in the core (some will spend nothing, some will get shoes shined and repaired at Gus's shoes, get dinner at Super Food, drink at Volstead...). By the port job creation logic, that's another 1-3 jobs created right there. So you're actually getting 124-126 jobs for your money.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 09:36:36 AM
I've witnessed with my own eyes the benefit that the small businesses enjoy, being exposed to an extra 2,000 workers a day.
No one's disputing that. It's where these workers will live that's being debated.
Quote from: finehoe on June 19, 2015, 10:09:31 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 09:36:36 AM
I've witnessed with my own eyes the benefit that the small businesses enjoy, being exposed to an extra 2,000 workers a day.
No one's disputing that. It's where these workers will live that's being debated.
St. Johns is better for us than Windermere.
QuoteAnd mtrain, those of us who live in 32202 LOVE IT!
You could use a few more people. No matter how you look at it.
Quote from: finehoe on June 19, 2015, 10:09:31 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 09:36:36 AM
I've witnessed with my own eyes the benefit that the small businesses enjoy, being exposed to an extra 2,000 workers a day.
No one's disputing that. It's where these workers will live that's being debated.
It's a debate with no data. There's no strong evidence to suggest that the majority of the 123 will live in SJC or Jax. All that we do know is that they won't be in DT Jax. Even in the wild chance that the majority wanted too, DT Jax doesn't have the housing stock or diversity available. Nevertheless, regardless of where they live, I'm not sure it should be a significant factor in deciding whether to provide incentives or not.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 10:39:37 AM
All that we do know is that they won't be in DT Jax.
My point exactly, which is what I responding to those who were saying "would live in a market rate loft/condo/apartment downtown" and "would help the current stock of downtown options fill, which would in turn create the need for additional downtown housing" and the like.
Quote from: finehoe on June 19, 2015, 11:13:08 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 10:39:37 AM
All that we do know is that they won't be in DT Jax.
My point exactly, which is what I responding to those who were saying "would live in a market rate loft/condo/apartment downtown" and "would help the current stock of downtown options fill, which would in turn create the need for additional downtown housing" and the like.
I agree my post was purely speculative regarding these potential new employees possibly living near the core. Without knowing the company and the specific job types they are looking to fill it is difficult to guess the age and socioeconomic status of the potential new hires. However, you have to agree that there is a better chance at least one of these new hires lives near the core if Jax were to win this bid, which is more than would with the company going elsewhere.
If you want more people living in and near DT, you'll need jobs and available housing to increase the chances of that outcome. It's not a wild speculative statement to assume that the market for more downtown housing grows, if the amount of jobs employing people who can afford it, increases as well.
Would it be too much to ask if we can all take time, get some collective deep breaths in, and wait and see how the new appartments in Brooklyn do once completed before we start with the "I told you so" and "would've could've should've" talk? If those new rentals after a year have a healthy waiting list AND occupancy rates at the existing DT appartment don't go significantly down, then that would be a more accurate bellwether on the future of other projects in the core like the Trio.
There has been lots of positive job growth buzz in the are over the last couple of years from the Citizen's relocation to the Baptist expansion and now this potential get. If we must wait another few years to see if all this brings DT Jax to the next level so be it. I'm sure many businesses and supporters would be glad they hung along for the ride.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 11:35:28 AM
It's not a wild speculative statement to assume that the market for more downtown housing grows, if the amount of jobs employing people who can afford it, increases as well.
Of course not. Just as it's not a wild speculative statement to assume that a significant number could well choose to live in St. John's county.
Quote from: Gunnar on June 19, 2015, 05:35:15 AM
Quote from: ben america on June 18, 2015, 02:51:13 PM
This is legal bribery. What is worse is that the bank is attempting to do this anonymously.
It seems to me that this is how companies operate nowadays - avoid paying any taxes and ask for money to open offices in the first place.
Well, they say companies are "fleeing" high taxes and high COL in NYC and CA, however, it's important to note that cities in these states and the states themselves rarely if ever offer incentives to attract or retain companies, while cities in states like FL and TX, and states like FL and TX themselves, offer incentives for just about every deal shopped their way. I personally would hardly call that "stealing" jobs away from NY and CA, the high cost states.
Jax is not competing with SF. FL not with CA. This same deal wouldn't receive incentives in SF, nor would it receive incentives if a relocation to Oakland. The last time I read about incentives to companies in this manner was the "Twitter tax credit", which brought several companies into millions of square feet into a very dilapidated part of town into very old buildings that needed hundreds of millions of dollars of work. Today, in a matter of just 2 years, that neighborhood went from vacant buildings and almost no market rate residential to having headquarters for Twitter, Square, Uber, and a host of other firms, upscale markets, gyms, restaurants, and services, thousands of new market rate residential units and hundreds more on the way right now, etc etc. In 2 years time. So I'd say the single tax credit I've read about in the 3 years I've been here has been a major success.
So I wouldn't say this is par for the course, everywhere.
Quote from: finehoe on June 19, 2015, 11:40:13 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 11:35:28 AM
It's not a wild speculative statement to assume that the market for more downtown housing grows, if the amount of jobs employing people who can afford it, increases as well.
Of course not. Just as it's not a wild speculative statement to assume that a significant number could well choose to live in St. John's county.
If so, that would be totally fine, IMO. If people aren't presented with competitive housing options in one community, we can't be disappointed when some make a personal decision to located and commute from another. Either way, the 123 jobs taking up some more empty space in DT Jax should be desired for the amount of incentives it would take to land them.
^And the fact that if they don't come here, it's not like the bank will just take its ball and go home. It will go to Orlando or Miami, and everyone who would have gone to St. Johns will be in Windemere or Martin County.
Quote from: finehoe on June 19, 2015, 08:29:18 AM
Quote from: simms3 on June 18, 2015, 04:07:05 PM
And it sounds like exactly the kind of company that employs the kind of person who would live in a market rate loft/condo/apartment downtown, frequent bars, and walk to work when possible.
This is pure speculation on your part. If anything it would be the opposite. Bankers aren't generally known for their cutting-edge lifestyles.
Quote from: Rob68 on June 19, 2015, 08:13:18 AM
Too bad most of them will be liviing in stjohns county like everyone else thats moving here...
Exactly.
Oh? Do tell...I don't even want to debate, but I might be one of if not the only person qualified on this forum based on my career/living situation/life path to tell you that you are so presumptuous and quite wrong (at least for every other city I've ever dealt with...maybe Jax is different) and I have no idea if you're just going off of personal political bias against the industry or if you're speaking out of your asshole, which is what it smells like, but fine, have it your way...don't give incentives, let them go elsewhere, and wait for all the starving artists that are apparently everywhere in Jax (which you know, is known for its super large burgeoning arts community) to populate these buildings downtown.
Or perhaps it's the lawyers that live the cutting edge lifestyle. Or those employed by certain F500 firms (definitely not Walmart, but Apple, right?). Or those in government. Or those insurance...yea, that's it, insurance salesmen. Maybe it's real estate brokers? Teachers? Doctors? Police officers? Techies? Techies who are engineers? Energy guys? Accountants? Beauticians? Choreographers? Pianists? Theater people?
I mean wtf...do you know what "cutting edge lifestyle" is? I'd say anyone under the age of 35 in most cities, particularly large ones, lives or can live a pretty sweet life with a sweet urban pad, and there are always some who choose not to, and in my experience it's pretty difficult to determine by industry. I'd go after industries that employ lots of those types as solid downtown industries. Sure, if the company brings down a lot of mid-level management guys in their upper 30s and 40s with familes, then don't expect a downtown demand. But if I'm guessing, they're going to need a small army of analysts and associates who will be in their 20s and 30s and won't want to live in SJC. Oh, but I forgot...most people in Jax are married by the age of 26...not the fault of the industry, blame the weird southern "marry the 3rd person you've fucked" mentality. Let's hope they bring a bunch of young transplants from other regions who aren't looking to diddle the same person every night.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 10:39:37 AM
Quote from: finehoe on June 19, 2015, 10:09:31 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 09:36:36 AM
I've witnessed with my own eyes the benefit that the small businesses enjoy, being exposed to an extra 2,000 workers a day.
No one's disputing that. It's where these workers will live that's being debated.
It's a debate with no data. There's no strong evidence to suggest that the majority of the 123 will live in SJC or Jax. All that we do know is that they won't be in DT Jax. Even in the wild chance that the majority wanted too, DT Jax doesn't have the housing stock or diversity available. Nevertheless, regardless of where they live, I'm not sure it should be a significant factor in deciding whether to provide incentives or not.
Well, as 220 Riverside leases up and the project across the street...could be a timely move. Then again, maybe it's better to watch these projects lease up without the addition of these 123 jobs to prove that there is more than obviously some innate pent-up demand for intown living and th ability for existing people to pay for it.
Your point is well taken - maybe they all live in SJC, even the 25 year olds this company employees. We can definitely say there was no housing for them downtown, but we can't say they would have chosen it over SJC if there were. But I'll collect finehoe's word farts for her and release them back into her face if Jax moves forward with this and someone tracks where these people move and how they benefit downtown, at least in the daytime while they're all working there, and then I'll give her back her farts for assuming anyone in finance is a lame dolt who lives in suburbs with kids. Because, you know, nobody working in finance in Boston's financial district or Lower Manhattan/Midtown or San Francisco's financial district or the Loop in Chicago has a cool downtown loft and throws good parties, or anything like that...no they all live out in the burbs and commute in and then leave again at night. The market rate lofts in these cities' downtowns are filled with people who work for non-profits or who are "self employed"...yea that's it. They throw great parties, too, supplying crowds with good alcohol and other supplies that cost $$$...lavish themed parties.
Regarding SJC and downtown employment. Does anyone want to take up a bet with me that a higher percentage of Fidelity Investments (located at Gate Parkway) employees live in SJC than Fidelity National Financial (located at Riverside Ave). I know enough people at both companies to know the answer without empirical data.
$1,000 to the winner. Any takers?
That said, as others have also pointed out, even if some of the employees do ultimately move to SJC, we still see financial benefits from them locally (sales tax, supporting downtown businesses, etc).
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 10:39:37 AM
It's a debate with no data. There's no strong evidence to suggest that the majority of the 123 will live in SJC or Jax. All that we do know is that they won't be in DT Jax. Even in the wild chance that the majority wanted too, DT Jax doesn't have the housing stock or diversity available. Nevertheless, regardless of where they live, I'm not sure it should be a significant factor in deciding whether to provide incentives or not.
Setting aside reality for a minute and imagining there were housing options downtown to fill any potential demand, what could be done to entice some of these new workers to live downtown? The company I work for provides commuter benefits that allow employees to reduce the costs of transportation expenses (use of public transportation, parking costs, etc.). Are there other companies or cities out their doing similar things for housing?
I remember reading somewhere (maybe here) about Quicken giving their employees incentives for purchasing property in Detroit and staying there for a certain number of years. Are there examples from other struggling cities that have managed to make it work, without depending on a billionaire CEO?
Quote from: hiddentrack on June 19, 2015, 02:39:12 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 10:39:37 AM
It's a debate with no data. There's no strong evidence to suggest that the majority of the 123 will live in SJC or Jax. All that we do know is that they won't be in DT Jax. Even in the wild chance that the majority wanted too, DT Jax doesn't have the housing stock or diversity available. Nevertheless, regardless of where they live, I'm not sure it should be a significant factor in deciding whether to provide incentives or not.
Setting aside reality for a minute and imagining there were housing options downtown to fill any potential demand, what could be done to entice some of these new workers to live downtown? The company I work for provides commuter benefits that allow employees to reduce the costs of transportation expenses (use of public transportation, parking costs, etc.). Are there other companies or cities out their doing similar things for housing?
I remember reading somewhere (maybe here) about Quicken giving their employees incentives for purchasing property in Detroit and staying there for a certain number of years. Are there examples from other struggling cities that have managed to make it work, without depending on a billionaire CEO?
San Francisco does the opposite. Close to 75K daily commuters use coach buses and limousine services from the city to their employer elsewhere in the Bay Area. Some buses now go to Oakland as well. Keeps workers where they prefer to live - in the city, but allows the campus to be elsewhere (likely on the Peninsula or in Santa Clara County or even East Bay). Several reasons for need:
1) Highways are completely clogged (you guys haven't probably ever seen traffic like that found on 101 during the 3 hour commute windows...just awful...I'd say, considerably slower/worse than in Atlanta)
2) Caltrain, the commuter rail, is so at capacity (and they are expanding, but it takes billions of $$ and years) that a) it's barely standing room only and b) they are actually pondering reducing bike space to fit more people, this in a region with a politically powerful bike contingency
3) Many workers can't really afford or choose not to squeeze in the car payments, especially in a time when an avg 1 BR in San Francisco is now $4K/mo...you might say what's another $1K/mo to have a car? $12K/year someone doesn't have to vacation or go out at all.
I can't think of too many regions that do this, and in Jacksonville, #s 1, 2, and 3 are not issues.
In Atlanta, I lived in Midtown and reverse commuted to Buckhead and Vinings. I lived in the little urban environment Atlanta offers, but worked in a more suburban environment. MARTA went to Buckhead, as well. There's no reason young SS workers can't also live downtown/Riverside but work on the SS. I'm sure it's done. There is no traffic in Jax...and not really enough of a need for employers to bus people around.
"There's no reason young SS workers can't also live downtown/Riverside but work on the SS. I'm sure it's done. There is no traffic in Jax...and not really enough of a need for employers to bus people around."
This is very common right now, especially with the always growing popularity of Avondale, Riverside, San Marco, etc. I commute from Avondale to SS everyday, as do numerous co-workers and friends in the riverside area.
Quote from: hiddentrack on June 19, 2015, 02:39:12 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 19, 2015, 10:39:37 AM
It's a debate with no data. There's no strong evidence to suggest that the majority of the 123 will live in SJC or Jax. All that we do know is that they won't be in DT Jax. Even in the wild chance that the majority wanted too, DT Jax doesn't have the housing stock or diversity available. Nevertheless, regardless of where they live, I'm not sure it should be a significant factor in deciding whether to provide incentives or not.
Setting aside reality for a minute and imagining there were housing options downtown to fill any potential demand, what could be done to entice some of these new workers to live downtown? The company I work for provides commuter benefits that allow employees to reduce the costs of transportation expenses (use of public transportation, parking costs, etc.). Are there other companies or cities out their doing similar things for housing?
I remember reading somewhere (maybe here) about Quicken giving their employees incentives for purchasing property in Detroit and staying there for a certain number of years. Are there examples from other struggling cities that have managed to make it work, without depending on a billionaire CEO?
Yes. Depends on how bad you want people downtown. Many cities, like Detroit and Philly, have programs that subsidize or pay people to live in certain areas to jump start them.....in addition to throwing mad incentives at developers taking on risky projects like the Laura Trio:
QuoteWe will pay you to live here
They're everywhere you look in Washington, D.C.'s Metro stations: signboards featuring bearded and fedoraed young adults hanging out, everything filtered through a warmly burnished glow. The text varies from location to location, from "Where Standing Out Never Means Standing Alone" to "Where Cost of Living Is More Living Than Cost," but they're all clearly aimed at millennials living in one of the nation's most expensive cities.
Look closely, and at the bottom, you'll see "Columbus" and "LifeinCbus.com"—as in Columbus, Ohio, the 15th largest city in the U.S., where city officials are hoping that young professionals will be tempted to move. Or, at least, think about moving there.
Columbus isn't the first city or state to try this tactic. Across the country, cities such as Philadelphia, Niagara Falls and Detroit are putting out the welcome mat for coveted professionals aged 25-34 in targeted social media and advertising campaigns, and with offers of internships, housing subsidies and student loan reimbursements. Some cities are paying people to move there.
here's a reason for this: 1 million young adults move each year, according to a 2014 City Observatory study. Their presence in a city is a direct reflection of its health and well-being, the study found, as young migrant professionals are key to fueling economic growth and urban revitalization. (According to the study, only 6 percent of Columbus residents are between 25 and 34 years old with college degrees.)
The come-move-here campaigns arrive at a time when many cities on the East and West Coasts are becoming more expensive. The cost of buying a home in those cities is out of reach for many young professionals, according to Joel Kotkin, a presidential fellow in Urban Futures at Chapman University.
Full article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/04/stateline-millennial-small-cities/25290139/
QuoteHighways are completely clogged (you guys haven't probably ever seen traffic like that found on 101 during the 3 hour commute windows...just awful...I'd say, considerably slower/worse than in Atlanta)
Coming from someone that has done the Suwanee to Buckhead commute while also doing Redwood City to Financial District in DTSF... IDk, Atlanta was a pretty catastrophically miserable commute. The BART makes life a lot easier.
*For the record, my current commute is Fairfax (basically Avondale) to SS. Although I seriously hate my current commute... I can't even imagine doing that Atlanta experience ever again in my life.
^^^BART doesn't serve Redwood City or the Peninsula, though. When did you live out here and for how long? BART is primarily for East Bay commuters to get around East Bay or to get into SF. It's pretty useless for San Mateo County. It will reach Santa Clara County/San Jose from the E Bay (UC now).
Caltrain is the rail line for the Peninsula. It's a single commuter rail line, still not electrified (which they are working on). It's at capacity (~60K commuters/day). It hits Redwood City and all the major points, but doesn't even go all the way into DT SF (stops at Fourth and King). They are working on that too, but billions of dollars and years out.
Anyway, just looked at traffic counts - you could be right. 101 has a range of 234-267K, with probably an average of either 4 through lanes + 2 HOV or 5 through lanes + 1 HOV. 85 is horrendous with 278-285K range outside of the perimeter through Gwinnett, but drops down to 205-211K inside the Perimeter to Buckhead. 285 inside the Perimeter is about the size of highway that 101 is (6 lanes, with 1-2 HOV included in there). 285 outside of the Perimeter is just a monstrously wide thing, but the bottleneck is definitely still with the offramps and the interchange with 285, which can slow all 100 lanes down.
I remember getting stuck for 3 hours because of a wreck on 85 outside of the Perimeter, heading N around 6 PM. Was terrible. I had almost no traffic when I commuted from Midtown to Vinings on 75, but would visit someone up in Sandy Springs and see the Perimeter up there just stopped in either direction.
Both cities are bad, but for its size, Atlanta's highway system is about the most well maintained I've experienced, and it'll serve it well in the future. Bay Area is a much more odd geography...much denser area with more people and fewer highways. With growth, it will only get worse (like NYC and Chicago and LA - honestly, what can they do to improve traffic? Really not much), whereas Atlanta can centralize more and grow its urban core more, and that will provide relief on the rate at which congestion worsens. SF can only fit so many more people in its bounds at the tip of the peninsula, and BART and Caltrain can only fit so many more people and no more highways can be built or widened. Atlanta can increase its density 5-8x and put millions of additional residents closer to work, if it so chooses. It can go out in all 4 directions.
I digress...not optimistic about Bay Area congestion. More optimistic about Atlanta congestion long term. So long as that city doesn't continue to sprawl out 50-100 miles in each direction and reigns it all in. Each will undoubtedly get worse, but from a vehicular perspective, and from a living options perspective, Atlanta will be the better choice, I think.
Off and on from 2002-2006 (work took me to both LA and SF during that time and I had a company house in both- Irvine/Redwood City). I used the train and/or BART about half the time and also had a car because I traveled between offices in both San Mateo and Marin Countys (and also had a business interest located in Foster City).
Atlanta commute particularly sucked because legitimate alternatives to driving were practically non-existant. There was a reason I prefered to talk to cute girls who had condos in Buckhead.
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Perfect example from the daily record of employees for a new business relocating near the core. This guy is moving into a nice little space in San Marco!
Gatlin's website confirms Jacksonville headquarters
Friday, June 19, 3:05 PM EDT
By Karen Brune Mathis, Managing Editor
Downtown Jacksonville appears to have gained another headquarters.
Gatlin Development Co. Inc., a real estate investment company that had been based in Fort Lauderdale, now lists its headquarters address as Riverplace Tower on the Downtown Southbank.
The GDC headquarters address is shown on the gatlindc.com website as 1301 Riverplace Blvd., Suite 1900.
No one from Gatlin's office in Fort Lauderdale has responded to telephone messages and email requests for comment the past two weeks.
Gatlin's corporate move to Jacksonville first surfaced when building plans were filed within the past several weeks for a 6,700-square-foot office renovation at the Riverplace Tower address. A building permit was issued June 3.
Those plans showed that Gatlin will set up at least 14 offices, open office space, a conference room, lounge area, break room, and copy, work and file rooms.
A potential corporate relocation became even more apparent when CEO Franklin C. Gatlin III and his wife, Christina, bought a $4.2 million estate in San Marco, not far from the Riverplace Tower offices. That deed was signed June 1 and recorded June 8 with the Duval County Clerk of Court.
Gatlin has a development track record in the area. It developed the first area Walmart markets two years ago and also is developing Collins Plaza in Southwest Jacksonville. That project will be anchored by a Walmart Supercenter.
Frank Gatlin founded the company in 1976. It specializes in shopping center development, management and renovation.
It has 44 developments in Florida, California, Minnesota, Tennessee and Wisconsin. Since 1984, it has focused on Walmart-anchored shopping centers.
It also has offices in Tennessee.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=545871 (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=545871)
According to the Daily Record, Australia-based Macquarie Group is the confidential "Project Post" that intends to open a 123-job global banking shared-services office Downtown.
I would love to see them land in the SunTrust building or another downtown office building with enough space for their operations.
Ah, they have a history in Jax but had ceased those operations.
Macquarie Mortgages USA was headquartered in Jax in 2006.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/macquarie-mortgages-usa-inc-relocates-headquarters-to-jacksonville-florida-56393417.html
Oh, now I see that they made a mention at the bottom of the daily record article.
Macquarie to lease in Riverplace Tower on Southbank
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546133
That tower has to be almost totally full by now.