DVI and The Elbow Partner to Bring People Downtown
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4136669457_fHwMrVW-L.jpg)
Downtown Vision, Inc. (DVI) and the bars, restaurants, entertainment venues and promoters collectively known as The Elbow have come together to promote Downtown Jacksonville’s authentic entertainment destination, beginning with the launch of the new TheElbowJax.com website to provide Jacksonville and visitors with a snapshot of the scene.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jun-dvi-and-the-elbow-partner-to-bring-people-downtown
Great news. And the website is much improved. Many things have been suggested to improve the district but I feel the 2 most important changes would be to allow bringing your drink from venue to venue within the Elbow (Florida Theatre would be excluded) and have a variance allowing alcohol served until 3AM Fridays and Saturdays there.
I'm ok with opening the area up for more food trucks but I've always hoped that having extended hours would attract more bars and therefore more permanent eating establishments to fulfill the need.
Cleaning up that alley will be pretty cool. That's been talked about for years.
I hope they can get some traction. It's always a shame that this area hasn't really taken off like King Street has.
It really is all about the marketing with stuff like this. They need to get their name out there to UNF and JU students with some type of campaign and compete with the beach bars on the weekend. It is an awesome area with huge potential that offers something totally unique to Jax. I'm excited to help to with the alley clean up and to see if they can really help it take off.
While I think it's great, I also think it's highly irresponsible to promote drinking downtown (and possibly extend serving hours until 3AM) when basically everyone is going to have to drive to get there and back. Yes, there are taxis and things like Uber (and people could choose designated drivers) - but lack of real mass transit pretty much guarantees that people will drink and drive.
Promoting and providing more transportation options is also needed. An expansion of the Riverside night trolley and night buses to and from the beach\UNF\JU.
Quote from: Adam White on June 17, 2015, 01:13:53 AM
While I think it's great, I also think it's highly irresponsible to promote drinking downtown (and possibly extend serving hours until 3AM) when basically everyone is going to have to drive to get there and back. Yes, there are taxis and things like Uber (and people could choose designated drivers) - but lack of real mass transit pretty much guarantees that people will drink and drive.
And the same thing isn't happening at the beach bars, Towncenter, King st, etc? The vast majority of the patrons of in every "nightlife" area in Jax are not taking mass transit to and from the bars.
I do not see this as a reason at all to not promote the area as a nightlife destination.
Quote from: dp8541 on June 17, 2015, 10:09:34 AM
Quote from: Adam White on June 17, 2015, 01:13:53 AM
While I think it's great, I also think it's highly irresponsible to promote drinking downtown (and possibly extend serving hours until 3AM) when basically everyone is going to have to drive to get there and back. Yes, there are taxis and things like Uber (and people could choose designated drivers) - but lack of real mass transit pretty much guarantees that people will drink and drive.
And the same thing isn't happening at the beach bars, Towncenter, King st, etc? The vast majority of the patrons of in every "nightlife" area in Jax are not taking mass transit to and from the bars.
I do not see this as a reason at all to not promote the area as a nightlife destination.
I didn't say it wasn't. But I'll save my comments on the beach bars, Towncenter, King St, etc for those threads.
Actually - I lied. I will now offer an opinion re King Street: you can walk to bars in Riverside. I did it for years. People live around there and those are neighborhood bars. True, people travel from outside the area (people will always do that) - but it's their responsibility to drink responsibly. Downtown is different in that over 90% (random figure pulled out of my ass) of your patrons will need to drive to visit the bars.
But just because it's being done elsewhere doesn't mean it's okay or shouldn't be considered.
Ya, at the end of the day people will always choose to drive in Jax so it's really just about the individual being responsible. uber and lyft are used very heavily at the beaches. Trolleys around the urban core and a bus out to the beaches is a great next step if they want to help prevent drinking and driving but you have to become a real destination first. I also hope we can start to get serious about expanding housing downtown so maybe one day a lot of people will just walk.
Quote from: UNFurbanist on June 17, 2015, 11:07:01 AM
Ya, at the end of the day people will always choose to drive in Jax so it's really just about the individual being responsible. uber and lyft are used very heavily at the beaches. Trolleys around the urban core and a bus out to the beaches is a great next step if they want to help prevent drinking and driving but you have to become a real destination first. I also hope we can start to get serious about expanding housing downtown so maybe one day a lot of people will just walk.
I agree. It just worries me more than anything else. When I lived in Jax, I
may have driven drunk on an occasion or two. If that
did happen, it would've been slowly on the side streets in Riverside. But I know lots of people who drink a lot and who drive. It's an unfortunate byproduct of not having decent transit options and having a populace that likes to go out drinking.
I agree that this is an issue to keep an eye on, my post was just referencing that it would not be anymore of a problem downtown than it is anywhere else in the city. Students at UNF and JU that live near their respective campuses are not walking to any of the bar districts in the city, so a shuttle to and from their campuses could be an option to evaluate.
Regarding uber and lyft, those services increase with the demand. Meaning if downtown were to become a more popular nightlife destination there would be more uber and lyft drivers available to take people home.
Quote from: dp8541 on June 17, 2015, 12:00:40 PM
I agree that this is an issue to keep an eye on, my post was just referencing that it would not be anymore of a problem downtown than it is anywhere else in the city. Students at UNF and JU that live near their respective campuses are not walking to any of the bar districts in the city, so a shuttle to and from their campuses could be an option to evaluate.
Regarding uber and lyft, those services increase with the demand. Meaning if downtown were to become a more popular nightlife destination there would be more uber and lyft drivers available to take people home.
+100
We also need this area to be successful if we ever want a vibrant downtown because every great city has a cool downtown bar district and this is ours. It really is a cool area and it has a ton more potential that I'm glad they are trying to build upon. I personally think there needs to be something done with the surface parking lots that kind of separate some of the bars from each other. Maybe that's where they could have food trucks park or street food vendors.
Quote from: Adam White on June 17, 2015, 01:13:53 AM
While I think it's great, I also think it's highly irresponsible to promote drinking downtown (and possibly extend serving hours until 3AM) when basically everyone is going to have to drive to get there and back. Yes, there are taxis and things like Uber (and people could choose designated drivers) - but lack of real mass transit pretty much guarantees that people will drink and drive.
Tampa, St. Pete, West Palm, Ft. Lauderdale, and Miami all have entertainment districts limited to their urban core that have closing times 3 AM or later and you don't hear a ton of people begging these establishments to roll back the clock to suburban alcohol service times, but that's not really my point. I'm trying to find ways for this particular part of downtown to thrive because of it's density, walkability, and available spaces but to do that the Elbow needs to be something truly unique to the region. The purpose of a weekend night 3 AM closing time is not to encourage drinking, but to make it more attractive for other to invest in these beautiful old buildings and purchase pricey liquor licenses offering something unique to the existing scene (and the additional bars there could very well encourage businesses and services not dealing with alcohol to set up shop for good measure). Plus later hours would encourage people in other areas to patronize or simply "check out" establishments and events going on in the Elbow without having to choose to do that or abandon their local watering hole.
I certainly don't encourage "binge" drinking of any kind which an earlier closing time would certainly encourage but yes there will be more chances of disorderly conduct due to drunkenness because of the longer bar hours - and that is one of the reasons I feel you should be allowed to carry your drink with you from place to place within the Elbow. What makes it a special place is the variety of venues in a relatively compact walkable area and having a pricey cocktail you have no choice but to finish there encourages people to stay where they are. Having a portable drink encourages you to go explore other venues without feeling compelled to get another one since you're good already. Just have more monitoring of people coming and going and keep people from bringing drinks into the Hyatt or Landing to cut down on unruliness.
These changes have helped create some fun and festive entertainment districts all across the country so I hope the city takes note. Regardless, it's refreshing to see all the positive changes happening there (and King St.) to make it the destination it can truly become. Always look forward to stopping by.
Could they have chosen a worse and less appealing name than "The Elbow"? Come on. What if the configuration of the district changes and is not in the shape of an elbow.
Going to King St. sounds way better than hitting the Elbow and perception is everything with nightlife. Honestly, the district has sort of failed already in bringing in the college crowd from JU, UNF, or local kids, and lost the young professional group. It has succeeded in bringing in the more alternative crowd and hip hop clubs.
If there is every going to be a true cool vibe in Jax for college kids/young professionals, Laura is where it should be with a good mix of restaurants, bars, and other entertainment leading you to the Landing. Most cities easily have several different areas within their downtown focused on different demographics. This is why the Trio is so important (but I digress).
Anyway, having an open container area would be great if they know how to manage it well. Orlando was relatively dead until about 10 years ago and sort of had the same lame hip hop dance clubs in their DT off Church and Pine without the young professional/college crowd. They created Wall Street which was completely geared towards young professionals and college kids with an open container allowance and the bar scene there took off. St. Pete did something similar on Central (their Main Street) about 7 or 8 years ago.
I think there are ethical implications to this - but that said, I don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about whether or not it's appropriate, ethical or responsible to promote (and encourage) alcohol consumption under these circumstances. So I kind of regret my original post.
Quote from: For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A on June 17, 2015, 03:17:07 PM
Could they have chosen a worse and less appealing name than "The Elbow"? Come on. What if the configuration of the district changes and is not in the shape of an elbow.
Going to King St. sounds way better than hitting the Elbow and perception is everything with nightlife. Honestly, the district has sort of failed already in bringing in the college crowd from JU, UNF, or local kids, and lost the young professional group. It has succeeded in bringing in the more alternative crowd and hip hop clubs.
Recent JU graduate here. Students, local kids, and young professionals like to go downtown as well as King St.
I don't think the name "The Elbow" is scaring anyone off, and in fact, I like it.
I think the problem is that you're looking at it as it stands right now and not the potential for what it could be. Even as it is now is pretty cool it just needs a facelift, some cool programing and a lot of marketing which is exactly what this group is trying to do. It's easy to attract a college crowd because the fact of the matter is the same old places get repetitive after awhile so I think people would be receptive to a new spot. They just have to know about it and have to have a cool experience when they show up.
Totally agree with the open container and 3AM cut off though, that would make it unique and more bar goer friendly instantly!
Quote from: johnnyliar on June 17, 2015, 07:42:25 PM
Recent JU graduate here. Students, local kids, and young professionals like to go downtown as well as King St.
I don't think the name "The Elbow" is scaring anyone off, and in fact, I like it.
agreed...the Elbow district is actually doing fairly well. The area currently has 12 night spots (not including primarily food places). Just curious, how many does the King Street district have?
Quote from: johnnyliar on June 17, 2015, 07:42:25 PM
Quote from: For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A on June 17, 2015, 03:17:07 PM
Could they have chosen a worse and less appealing name than "The Elbow"? Come on. What if the configuration of the district changes and is not in the shape of an elbow.
Going to King St. sounds way better than hitting the Elbow and perception is everything with nightlife. Honestly, the district has sort of failed already in bringing in the college crowd from JU, UNF, or local kids, and lost the young professional group. It has succeeded in bringing in the more alternative crowd and hip hop clubs.
Recent JU graduate here. Students, local kids, and young professionals like to go downtown as well as King St.
I don't think the name "The Elbow" is scaring anyone off, and in fact, I like it.
Where?
The young professional crowd that I know does not go to Marks or TSI. Occasionally, Dos Gatos is a good option but I don't even know if that is technically part of the Elbow. We used to go to Lit every once in awhile before it closed. Mostly, the young professional crowd and UNF students I know are in Riverside, the Beaches, and even some are on Hendricks at Aardwolf or V. Granted, I only know a few girls at JU, but I havent known them to go DT either.
Quote
Where?
The young professional crowd that I know does not go to Marks or TSI. Occasionally, Dos Gatos is a good option but I don't even know if that is technically part of the Elbow. We used to go to Lit every once in awhile before it closed. Mostly, the young professional crowd and UNF students I know are in Riverside, the Beaches, and even some are on Hendricks at Aardwolf or V. Granted, I only know a few girls at JU, but I havent known them to go DT either.
Underbelly, 1904, Burro Bar, The Cigar lounge and Dos Gatos are all part of the Elbow and they get a pretty decent crowd. Its not just TSI Hourglass and Mark's. You are right that most people go to the beaches or Riverside but I think that is exactly what they are trying to change. Here is their website showing what is technically in the elbow district http://theelbowjax.com/guide/ (http://theelbowjax.com/guide/)
Why is it called The Elbow?
^The blocks with bars on them kind of make a big L shape so I guess they thought it was clever.
Quote from: Adam White on June 17, 2015, 01:13:53 AM
While I think it's great, I also think it's highly irresponsible to promote drinking downtown (and possibly extend serving hours until 3AM) when basically everyone is going to have to drive to get there and back. Yes, there are taxis and things like Uber (and people could choose designated drivers) - but lack of real mass transit pretty much guarantees that people will drink and drive.
Sorry, how can you say "I think it's great" in one breath and then make a ridiculous statement like "it's irresponsible to promote drinking downtown because you have to drive there"... I'm pretty sure ANY club, bar or restaurant that serves alcohol has a parking lot and has people driving from somewhere. Are you suggesting that unless you live close enough to a bar that you can walk (and potentially walk drunk out into traffic), you should not be allowed to go there?
Sorry, I just find this statement a bit out there...
I think it's great that DVI and The Elbow are working to bring people downtown. Sorry you couldn't suss that from the comments.
I didn't see this posted on here but they are having an event tomorrow that looks promising.
http://theelbowjax.com/bender/
The Elbow Bender is going to be a ton of fun!
Everyone should come check it out.
Quote from: johnnyliar on July 08, 2015, 03:08:30 PM
The Elbow Bender is going to be a ton of fun!
Everyone should come check it out.
See this? Events like this that are well planned, well coordinated, well publicized, well sponsored, and hopefullly well attended are key to the success of districts like this. Even well estalbished entertainment centers still host many events and festivals even though they don't need the extra visitors or publicity. But the Ocean/Bay St. corridor (and DT in general) are dying for more events like this to start and maintain a sustained buzz about the area because a sure sign of success would be that the area becomes less thought of as an entertainment "option" and more as a legitamate entertainment "draw".
And Good Luck to all the bands tonight! Wish I could be there :(
Ah man, I thought this was this weekend.
How did it go?
Can anyone compare it to that bar crawl that was being hyped for the Town Center last Thursday?
welp.
It wasn't perfect, that's for damn sure.
There are plenty of things that can be done to make this a successful event. However, last night was just NOT a success.
The stages were about a half mile from each other with bands starting at the SAME TIMES instead of at alternating intervals (like all multi-stage shows or festivals do.)
The Jax Chamber plaza had beer tents and virtually nothing else, but you couldn't leave the lot with your beer :o
The promotional material and flyers printed had the wrong stage/time info
The alleyway that The Elbow has been hyping as "new and improved" still looks like shit.
I'm hoping that all of these things, and a ton more, end up being addressed before they try to do another "bender."
Still, I had a moderate amount of fun.
Any idea why this event was scheduled for a Thursday and not a Friday or Saturday night?
I think a lot of people are still exhausted from the 4th weekend. I know I am.
Hopefully they will make some tweaks and come back stronger.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on July 10, 2015, 02:49:19 PM
Quote from: CityLife on July 10, 2015, 02:47:05 PM
I think a lot of people are still exhausted from the 4th weekend. I know I am.
Hopefully they will make some tweaks and come back stronger.
That's a really good point I had not considered. Plus, now that you mention it, a lot of folks are on vacation, too. Seems like BoA building is like half full this week.
Yea, I think a lot of people are either burned out from the weekend, or are just getting back from vacation. Probably not the best week to try something like this, but at least they got their feet wet before a bigger event.
To be honest I showed up late and only got to see SWIMM, however, 1904 and Underbelly were packed around 11 and the bars themselves were a ton of fun until close! Drink specials were great and the DJ was awesome. I brought a lot of friends from UNF for their first time to the elbow and they had a blast. Personally I think it started and ended way too early, at least from a college kid's perspective. Totally agree with the outside stage critiques though. The alley way was not finished but it made for an awesome chill spot in between the bars so there is a ton of potential there that they can work on fairly easily. Hopefully they can learn a few lessons and try this again in a few months.
UNF - I believe the idea was to try to get some of the "after work crowd" to stick around, which is why it started at 6. And then they ended outdoor music by 10 so they didn't have to deal with sound ordinance mumbo jumbo.
^very true. Didn't think about noise ordinances. Attracting an after work crowd would probably work better on a Friday but live and learn right? Overall I thought it was a good first try.
Quote from: UNFurbanist on July 10, 2015, 05:05:23 PM
^very true. Didn't think about noise ordinances. Attracting an after work crowd would probably work better on a Friday but live and learn right? Overall I thought it was a good first try.
Excuse my ignorance but what is the purpose of having a noise ordinance in this section of downtown? Who are they trying to protect?
Quote from: Todd_Parker on July 10, 2015, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: UNFurbanist on July 10, 2015, 05:05:23 PM
^very true. Didn't think about noise ordinances. Attracting an after work crowd would probably work better on a Friday but live and learn right? Overall I thought it was a good first try.
Excuse my ignorance but what is the purpose of having a noise ordinance in this section of downtown? Who are they trying to protect?
people who live downtown and also work on weekdays....that said, an 11pm cutoff would be reasonable.
http://theelbowjax.com/spliffs-gastropub-will-bring-new-fare-downtown/
Update from the elbow website regarding the new food spot opening next to 1904.
Should be an awesome spot! Now we just need Cowford chophouse to open and someone to move into the old North Star location.
Hopefully this is cool! More to do downtown is a big plus!
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 10, 2015, 08:58:52 PM
Quote from: Todd_Parker on July 10, 2015, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: UNFurbanist on July 10, 2015, 05:05:23 PM
^very true. Didn't think about noise ordinances. Attracting an after work crowd would probably work better on a Friday but live and learn right? Overall I thought it was a good first try.
Excuse my ignorance but what is the purpose of having a noise ordinance in this section of downtown? Who are they trying to protect?
people who live downtown and also work on weekdays....that said, an 11pm cutoff would be reasonable.
Couldn't they designate areas of downtown that are excempt (the party district) ? There are enough areas where probably no-one is living.
Sweet Pete's & The Candy Apple
400 N Hogan Street
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Monday: 9am - 4pm
Tuesday - Thursday: 9am - 9pm
Friday: 9am - 10pm
Saturday: 9am - 10pm
Sunday: 10am - 5pm I was surprised that Sweet Pete's & The Candy Apple were open on Sundays. This is very smart because the only other store I know is open is the Bookmine on Sunday's. So these business people are taking a risk but I know at Sweet Pete's its paying off it was very busy when I bought almost a pound of loose candy at $15.95 a pound.
The Candy Apple Hours:
Sunday: 10-5pm
Monday: 11-3pm
Tuesday-Thursday: 11-9pm
Friday: 11-10pm
Saturday: 10-10pm
Spliff's has a Facebook page with updates on its pending opening et al.
Quote from: Gunnar on July 21, 2015, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 10, 2015, 08:58:52 PM
Quote from: Todd_Parker on July 10, 2015, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: UNFurbanist on July 10, 2015, 05:05:23 PM
^very true. Didn't think about noise ordinances. Attracting an after work crowd would probably work better on a Friday but live and learn right? Overall I thought it was a good first try.
Excuse my ignorance but what is the purpose of having a noise ordinance in this section of downtown? Who are they trying to protect?
people who live downtown and also work on weekdays....that said, an 11pm cutoff would be reasonable.
Couldn't they designate areas of downtown that are excempt (the party district) ? There are enough areas where probably no-one is living.
except for the fact that the Berkman condos and the Churchwell Lofts ware located within the Elbow area. Most cities limit outdoor noise levels on weeknights after 11 or 12, even in entertainment areas