America's Largest Cities Without A Downtown Starbucks
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/plog-content/images/development/downtown-construction-update---june-2007/p1000760.JPG)
Starbucks is the largest coffeehouse company in the world, with 21,536 stores in 64 countries and territories, including 12,218 in the United States. However,if you're looking for Frappauccino in one of these city's downtowns you'll find yourself out of luck. Here's the five largest cities in the United States where you won't find a single Starbucks location downtown.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jun-americas-largest-cities-without-a-downtown-starbucks
What, no starbucks in Springfield? I thought the neighborhood was on the upswing? Oops...my mistake...
Starbucks is for people to be seen and to feel important while they pay for overpriced coffee. I could care less if Starbucks closed forever. Don't go there and don't need coffee to get me going.
Quote from: Redbaron616 on June 11, 2015, 07:09:45 AM
Starbucks is for people to be seen and to feel important while they pay for overpriced coffee. I could care less if Starbucks closed forever. Don't go there and don't need coffee to get me going.
I'm sorry, but that's about the stupidest thing I've read in a while. Unless you honestly believe that the millions (billions?) of people worldwide who go to Starbucks each year do it because they need to " be seen and feel important".
It's cool if you don't like their coffee. But is it so hard to accept that some people might?
We do actually have several very good alternatives to Starbucks downtown, Vagabond Coffee, Chamblin's, and heck even the Brick at the Ed Ball building serves Seattle's Best. While I see the allure of having a Starbucks downtown and this is not really a list we want to be on, I would rather see a home grown full service coffee shop spring up instead.
Well, at least it smells like coffee downtown.....
"One hot summer's day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. "Just the things to quench my thirst," quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: 'I am sure they are sour.'"
It would seem some are missing the point. Whether Starbucks has good or bad coffee or if you personally like it or not is irrelevant. The fact that one of the most successful retail outlets of the 21st century doesn't feel the need to have a presence in downtown Jacksonville says volumes about the health of our central business district.
It's not like they haven't noticed - there are ~45-50 (loose count) in the Jax metro area - crazy.
http://www.starbucks.com/store-locator#search/location/Jacksonville%2C%20FL
Sounds like an opportunity for Bold Bean? +1 for Chamblin's. I think most folks would rather have Jax standing out for the amount of support we give to independent businesses. Not having a Starbucks in your downtown is a good thing. It shows that you're cool and don't follow the herd. There's been a lot of solid small businesses started here in the past 5 years. Maybe Jax is the Portland of the east coast and we are off the radar? Now that's as cool as it gets.
The issue of not having a Starbucks has much less to do with preference for/against the company and it's products, but rather more to do with the state of Downtown Jax. I realize there are a lot of people that like Starbucks, and a lot of people that hate it. I personally would rather go to Chamblin's myself.
However, the fact that Starbucks chooses not to have a single store or kiosk in Downtown Jax, Southbank, or Springfield means that they (and likely other companies) view the region as unsuccessful and not worth the investment. In contrast, at L'Enfant Plaza in downtown DC, there are 3 full Starbucks stores within a 2 minute walk of each other, including 2 on adjacent metro entrances. It also speaks to perception from tourists, reporters, and visitors when this commonplace business is not present (such as Paul Kuharsky's blog when covering the Jaguars training camp in 2013).
QuoteMaybe Jax is the Portland of the east coast and we are off the radar?
Maybe; we have lots of homeless like Portland. But there are like 10ish Starbucks locations in Downtown Portland alone.
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on June 11, 2015, 10:19:57 AM
Sounds like an opportunity for Bold Bean? +1 for Chamblin's. I think most folks would rather have Jax standing out for the amount of support we give to independent businesses. Not having a Starbucks in your downtown is a good thing. It shows that you're cool and don't follow the herd. There's been a lot of solid small businesses started here in the past 5 years. Maybe Jax is the Portland of the east coast and we are off the radar? Now that's as cool as it gets.
OMG I think you need to go to Portland. San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland are probably the best coffee cities in America with the greatest concentration of independent roasters, as well as the best roasters. The biggest chains (like Starbucks from Seattle or Peets from the Bay Area) just happen to also come from these areas, not surprisingly. I can guarantee you that downtown Portland has no less than a dozen Starbucks/Peets, in addition to dozens of other coffee places.
My big question is are Jax residents/workers not big coffee drinkers? And if not, how do people work?
And for the record, Seattle's best is like Folgers or Maxwell House. LoL
Having a Starbucks downtown is like having a Gap in your mall. It's a simply a sign that your downtown isn't on its death bed and still has workers who work. Starbucks real estate department is like that of Target's or Whole Food's RE department. They are quite sophisticated for a retail site selection department, and they usually get it right.
So...this isn't good at all that we are the largest city (in the developed/developing world?) without a Sbux downtown.
Yeah, it's not that we want Starbucks DT, it's that they don't want to be DT. Rejection stinks. Even Taco Bell is too risk averse to dip their toe in the water.
I wonder what can be done to make Downtown attractive to companies like Starbucks. Or more accurately, what plan can we come up with to get us there?
I'd like to see more businesses downtown. Does anyone know if the Quizno's in the Ed Ball building is still there? I was stuck eating there a LOT when I worked at First Union back in 2002.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on June 11, 2015, 10:45:38 AM
Yeah, it's not that we want Starbucks DT, it's that they don't want to be DT. Rejection stinks. Even Taco Bell is too risk averse to dip their toe in the water.
Gee, Taco Bell? Their market is pretty much high school kids, right? After a night of doing doughnuts in empty parking lots and street racing hitting the Bell seemed natural. Back then we only had a few bucks and that 59, 79 and 99 cent menu went a long way.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on June 11, 2015, 10:45:38 AM
Yeah, it's not that we want Starbucks DT, it's that they don't want to be DT. Rejection stinks.
Starbucks kinda have that Walmart thing going, as many hate it. So it's not like everyone cares about Starbucks, like your typical hipster does.
Quote from: I-10east on June 11, 2015, 10:56:47 AM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on June 11, 2015, 10:45:38 AM
Yeah, it's not that we want Starbucks DT, it's that they don't want to be DT. Rejection stinks.
Starbucks kinda have that Walmart thing going, as many hate it. So it's not like everyone cares about Starbucks, like your typical hipster does.
Seriously - they have far too many customers worldwide to be solely patronized by hipsters. I'd argue most hipsters are far too "cool" to be seen in Starbucks anyway!
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 10:35:54 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on June 11, 2015, 10:19:57 AM
Sounds like an opportunity for Bold Bean? +1 for Chamblin's. I think most folks would rather have Jax standing out for the amount of support we give to independent businesses. Not having a Starbucks in your downtown is a good thing. It shows that you're cool and don't follow the herd. There's been a lot of solid small businesses started here in the past 5 years. Maybe Jax is the Portland of the east coast and we are off the radar? Now that's as cool as it gets.
OMG I think you need to go to Portland. San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland are probably the best coffee cities in America with the greatest concentration of independent roasters, as well as the best roasters. The biggest chains (like Starbucks from Seattle or Peets from the Bay Area) just happen to also come from these areas, not surprisingly. I can guarantee you that downtown Portland has no less than a dozen Starbucks/Peets, in addition to dozens of other coffee places.
My big question is are Jax residents/workers not big coffee drinkers? And if not, how do people work?
And for the record, Seattle's best is like Folgers or Maxwell House. LoL
Having a Starbucks downtown is like having a Gap in your mall. It's a simply a sign that your downtown isn't on its death bed and still has workers who work. Starbucks real estate department is like that of Target's or Whole Food's RE department. They are quite sophisticated for a retail site selection department, and they usually get it right.
So...this isn't good at all that we are the largest city (in the developed/developing world?) without a Sbux downtown.
I meant Portland in terms of entrepreneurial spirit and original ideas. The neighborhoods right next to downtown, San Marco, Riverside, Springfield all have had great independent businesses start up in the last 5 years. Maybe the focus shouldn't be on downtown as a specific entity but rather all of the intown neighborhoods as a whole. There's not really much in the way of housing downtown, therefore, there's not going to be many people living there. There's a Starbucks and Taco Bell in Macclenny, is anyone suggesting that Macclenny is an economic and cultural powerhouse?
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on June 11, 2015, 11:10:00 AM
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 10:35:54 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on June 11, 2015, 10:19:57 AM
Sounds like an opportunity for Bold Bean? +1 for Chamblin's. I think most folks would rather have Jax standing out for the amount of support we give to independent businesses. Not having a Starbucks in your downtown is a good thing. It shows that you're cool and don't follow the herd. There's been a lot of solid small businesses started here in the past 5 years. Maybe Jax is the Portland of the east coast and we are off the radar? Now that's as cool as it gets.
OMG I think you need to go to Portland. San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland are probably the best coffee cities in America with the greatest concentration of independent roasters, as well as the best roasters. The biggest chains (like Starbucks from Seattle or Peets from the Bay Area) just happen to also come from these areas, not surprisingly. I can guarantee you that downtown Portland has no less than a dozen Starbucks/Peets, in addition to dozens of other coffee places.
My big question is are Jax residents/workers not big coffee drinkers? And if not, how do people work?
And for the record, Seattle's best is like Folgers or Maxwell House. LoL
Having a Starbucks downtown is like having a Gap in your mall. It's a simply a sign that your downtown isn't on its death bed and still has workers who work. Starbucks real estate department is like that of Target's or Whole Food's RE department. They are quite sophisticated for a retail site selection department, and they usually get it right.
So...this isn't good at all that we are the largest city (in the developed/developing world?) without a Sbux downtown.
I meant Portland in terms of entrepreneurial spirit and original ideas. The neighborhoods right next to downtown, San Marco, Riverside, Springfield all have had great independent businesses start up in the last 5 years. Maybe the focus shouldn't be on downtown as a specific entity but rather all of the intown neighborhoods as a whole. There's not really much in the way of housing downtown, therefore, there's not going to be many people living there. There's a Starbucks and Taco Bell in Macclenny, is anyone suggesting that Macclenny is an economic and cultural powerhouse?
But downtown should have office workers - more than it does. It's not just about residents. Few would argue we don't need to revitalize downtown and get more companies to move there. It's essential.
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on June 11, 2015, 11:10:00 AM
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 10:35:54 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on June 11, 2015, 10:19:57 AM
Sounds like an opportunity for Bold Bean? +1 for Chamblin's. I think most folks would rather have Jax standing out for the amount of support we give to independent businesses. Not having a Starbucks in your downtown is a good thing. It shows that you're cool and don't follow the herd. There's been a lot of solid small businesses started here in the past 5 years. Maybe Jax is the Portland of the east coast and we are off the radar? Now that's as cool as it gets.
OMG I think you need to go to Portland. San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland are probably the best coffee cities in America with the greatest concentration of independent roasters, as well as the best roasters. The biggest chains (like Starbucks from Seattle or Peets from the Bay Area) just happen to also come from these areas, not surprisingly. I can guarantee you that downtown Portland has no less than a dozen Starbucks/Peets, in addition to dozens of other coffee places.
My big question is are Jax residents/workers not big coffee drinkers? And if not, how do people work?
And for the record, Seattle's best is like Folgers or Maxwell House. LoL
Having a Starbucks downtown is like having a Gap in your mall. It's a simply a sign that your downtown isn't on its death bed and still has workers who work. Starbucks real estate department is like that of Target's or Whole Food's RE department. They are quite sophisticated for a retail site selection department, and they usually get it right.
So...this isn't good at all that we are the largest city (in the developed/developing world?) without a Sbux downtown.
I meant Portland in terms of entrepreneurial spirit and original ideas. The neighborhoods right next to downtown, San Marco, Riverside, Springfield all have had great independent businesses start up in the last 5 years. Maybe the focus shouldn't be on downtown as a specific entity but rather all of the intown neighborhoods as a whole. There's not really much in the way of housing downtown, therefore, there's not going to be many people living there. There's a Starbucks and Taco Bell in Macclenny, is anyone suggesting that Macclenny is an economic and cultural powerhouse?
I don't know what point you're trying to make and you do sound like a typical Jax resident who hasn't [yet] gotten out of the city/region much, but you definitely just proved our point! See emboldened sentence above.
In checking out the largest coffee-focused chains in the world:
1. Starbucks (which is not the best, but better than Maxwell House of course) - Seattle
2. Costa - London
3. Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf - Los Angeles
4. Gloria Jeans (awful stuff) - Chicago/Australia
5. Caribou Coffee - Minnesota
6. Tim Hortons - Canada
7. Coffee Beanery (never heard o it) - MI
8. Peets - San Francisco
9. Tully's - Seattle
In terms of the perceived most popular "independent roaster" brands in the US, you have Blue Bottle from SF and Stumptown from Portland, both of which have received several rounds of funding to open up more locations and become larger (I would hardly call either "independent roasters" any more, but they aren't bad).
The W Coast clearly dominates as a coffee region. The best and biggest chains come from the W Coast. And the "best" and most popular "independent roasters" also come from the W Coast. This notion that these places don't drink Starbucks in favor of the next mom and pop is partially true, but I'd say people on the W Coast are just hyper hyper caffeinated workaholics. So again, my question, without Starbucks OR mom and pops, where the hell do downtown Jax workers get their coffee?!?!?!?!? Like WTF how is it possible that there are maybe 3 options downtown and they serve stuff like Seattle's Best or Maxwell House?
I "meet people for coffee" all the time, moreso than I meet for lunch or drinks after work since I don't have time for the latter two and neither do others. How are people downtown meeting each other up? What's the differentiator between working downtown and working in a suburban office park if you must drive to get a Starbucks in either? Like Seriously?? This is actually a huggggeeeeeee problem. The whole point of a downtown is forced, quick social/networking/business contact in a touch and go down-the-elevator-and-walk environment.
Maybe people in Jax work normal hours, get plenty of rest, and don't need coffee?
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 11:27:37 AM
In checking out the largest coffee-focused chains in the world:
1. Starbucks (which is not the best, but better than Maxwell House of course) - Seattle
2. Costa - London
3. Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf - Los Angeles
4. Gloria Jeans (awful stuff) - Chicago/Australia
5. Caribou Coffee - Minnesota
6. Tim Hortons - Canada
7. Coffee Beanery (never heard o it) - MI
8. Peets - San Francisco
9. Tully's - Seattle
I think that list is missing Caffe Nero, which has over 700 locations worldwide.
Quote from: Lunican on June 11, 2015, 11:39:07 AM
Maybe people in Jax work normal hours, get plenty of rest, and don't need coffee?
Silly statement, frankly. Lots of people need coffee just to get out of bed and find motivation to start the day. It's not always about working investment banking hours.
Do they also not "catch up over a coffee"? Coffee is to the business community as cigarettes are to construction workers. It's just as social as it is important to getting the job done and getting through the day. Where is the "let's grab a coffee" place downtown? Where do people conduct casual interviews, or escape the office for a few minutes, or catch up before work with peers, or grab an afternoon pick me up?
QuoteJacksonville is the largest city by population in Florida, and the largest city by area in the contiguous United States. Thus, it wins this competition hands down.
Ennis, why did you include this?? Your ranking is compiled by metro area. Seems a bit deceptive to imply that we're bigger than any other "city" in FL yet we don't have a starbucks downtown.
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 11:55:59 AM
Quote from: Lunican on June 11, 2015, 11:39:07 AM
Maybe people in Jax work normal hours, get plenty of rest, and don't need coffee?
Silly statement, frankly. Lots of people need coffee just to get out of bed and find motivation to start the day. It's not always about working investment banking hours.
Do they also not "catch up over a coffee"? Coffee is to the business community as cigarettes are to construction workers. It's just as social as it is important to getting the job done and getting through the day. Where is the "let's grab a coffee" place downtown? Where do people conduct casual interviews, or escape the office for a few minutes, or catch up before work with peers, or grab an afternoon pick me up?
Well, this was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I know there is a coffee place in the Ed Ball Building. I do hear of people going through a drive through on their way to work downtown. Maybe that is pretty common?
But I don't do any of the things you listed surrounding coffee.
I can't believe no one is looking at the bigger picture here. Once Nordstrom opens Downtown,no one will even notice there is no Starbucks.
Starbucks is overrated, but the fact that they couldn't even make a go of it with free rent speaks volumes. But it doesn't say anything that we didn't already know.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on June 11, 2015, 11:58:09 AM
QuoteJacksonville is the largest city by population in Florida, and the largest city by area in the contiguous United States. Thus, it wins this competition hands down.
Ennis, why did you include this?? Your ranking is compiled by metro area. Seems a bit deceptive to imply that we're bigger than any other "city" in FL yet we don't have a starbucks downtown.
If I did the list by city, it would make Jax look a lot worse, due to consolidation. Nevertheless, I felt that statement was a fact worth mentioning.
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 11:27:37 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on June 11, 2015, 11:10:00 AM
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 10:35:54 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on June 11, 2015, 10:19:57 AM
Sounds like an opportunity for Bold Bean? +1 for Chamblin's. I think most folks would rather have Jax standing out for the amount of support we give to independent businesses. Not having a Starbucks in your downtown is a good thing. It shows that you're cool and don't follow the herd. There's been a lot of solid small businesses started here in the past 5 years. Maybe Jax is the Portland of the east coast and we are off the radar? Now that's as cool as it gets.
OMG I think you need to go to Portland. San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland are probably the best coffee cities in America with the greatest concentration of independent roasters, as well as the best roasters. The biggest chains (like Starbucks from Seattle or Peets from the Bay Area) just happen to also come from these areas, not surprisingly. I can guarantee you that downtown Portland has no less than a dozen Starbucks/Peets, in addition to dozens of other coffee places.
My big question is are Jax residents/workers not big coffee drinkers? And if not, how do people work?
And for the record, Seattle's best is like Folgers or Maxwell House. LoL
Having a Starbucks downtown is like having a Gap in your mall. It's a simply a sign that your downtown isn't on its death bed and still has workers who work. Starbucks real estate department is like that of Target's or Whole Food's RE department. They are quite sophisticated for a retail site selection department, and they usually get it right.
So...this isn't good at all that we are the largest city (in the developed/developing world?) without a Sbux downtown.
I meant Portland in terms of entrepreneurial spirit and original ideas. The neighborhoods right next to downtown, San Marco, Riverside, Springfield all have had great independent businesses start up in the last 5 years. Maybe the focus shouldn't be on downtown as a specific entity but rather all of the intown neighborhoods as a whole. There's not really much in the way of housing downtown, therefore, there's not going to be many people living there. There's a Starbucks and Taco Bell in Macclenny, is anyone suggesting that Macclenny is an economic and cultural powerhouse?
I don't know what point you're trying to make and you do sound like a typical Jax resident who hasn't [yet] gotten out of the city/region much, but you definitely just proved our point! See emboldened sentence above.
Dude, I own a house in San Marco and travel/live all over the country. Last year I lived for 3 months in Seattle and right now I'm in New Mexico. Before that I split time between New England/California/Jacksonville. I'll be coming back to Jax in a few months and happy to be there. I know several folks that do the same thing. They have a base in Jax even though they could live anywhere.
The vibe I get from Jax is very unique and very cool, once you scratch beneath the surface. The surface is Taco Bells, Starbucks, malls, and that homogenized culture that exists almost everywhere. If anyone is thinking the worth of a city is measured by homogenized culture then maybe the downtown and the intown neighborhoods of Jax are not for them. Montpelier is the only state capital without a McDonalds. Every time I goto Vermont a local brags about it. It's a badge of honor. Let's take up that same philosophy for Starbucks in our downtown. Screw Starbucks and homogenized culture.
I work in DT a few days each week. We have a coffee machine in the office. That's where my daily cup comes from.
I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but Urban Grind is downtown on Bay street next to Regions across from the Wells Fargo. They started at the little kiosk in the BoA building.
Quote from: finehoe on June 11, 2015, 09:34:49 AM
It would seem some are missing the point. Whether Starbucks has good or bad coffee or if you personally like it or not is irrelevant. The fact that one of the most successful retail outlets of the 21st century doesn't feel the need to have a presence in downtown Jacksonville says volumes about the health of our central business district.
It appears that Starbucks is the 'canary in the coal mine' when it comes to the vibrancy of cities and their central business districts. While I do not frequent Starbucks on a regular basis, it is a place where I can arrange for a quick meeting and also a chance for me to redeem the various gift cards that I receive from students. The 'why don't we have [fill in the blank] in downtown Jacksonville' thing serves as a reminder that we have a way to go with regard to holding our city in higher esteem than having a reputation for being being able to screw up a two-car parade if given the chance...
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on June 11, 2015, 12:37:54 PM
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 11:27:37 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on June 11, 2015, 11:10:00 AM
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 10:35:54 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on June 11, 2015, 10:19:57 AM
Sounds like an opportunity for Bold Bean? +1 for Chamblin's. I think most folks would rather have Jax standing out for the amount of support we give to independent businesses. Not having a Starbucks in your downtown is a good thing. It shows that you're cool and don't follow the herd. There's been a lot of solid small businesses started here in the past 5 years. Maybe Jax is the Portland of the east coast and we are off the radar? Now that's as cool as it gets.
OMG I think you need to go to Portland. San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland are probably the best coffee cities in America with the greatest concentration of independent roasters, as well as the best roasters. The biggest chains (like Starbucks from Seattle or Peets from the Bay Area) just happen to also come from these areas, not surprisingly. I can guarantee you that downtown Portland has no less than a dozen Starbucks/Peets, in addition to dozens of other coffee places.
My big question is are Jax residents/workers not big coffee drinkers? And if not, how do people work?
And for the record, Seattle's best is like Folgers or Maxwell House. LoL
Having a Starbucks downtown is like having a Gap in your mall. It's a simply a sign that your downtown isn't on its death bed and still has workers who work. Starbucks real estate department is like that of Target's or Whole Food's RE department. They are quite sophisticated for a retail site selection department, and they usually get it right.
So...this isn't good at all that we are the largest city (in the developed/developing world?) without a Sbux downtown.
I meant Portland in terms of entrepreneurial spirit and original ideas. The neighborhoods right next to downtown, San Marco, Riverside, Springfield all have had great independent businesses start up in the last 5 years. Maybe the focus shouldn't be on downtown as a specific entity but rather all of the intown neighborhoods as a whole. There's not really much in the way of housing downtown, therefore, there's not going to be many people living there. There's a Starbucks and Taco Bell in Macclenny, is anyone suggesting that Macclenny is an economic and cultural powerhouse?
I don't know what point you're trying to make and you do sound like a typical Jax resident who hasn't [yet] gotten out of the city/region much, but you definitely just proved our point! See emboldened sentence above.
Dude, I own a house in San Marco and travel/live all over the country. Last year I lived for 3 months in Seattle and right now I'm in New Mexico. Before that I split time between New England/California/Jacksonville. I'll be coming back to Jax in a few months and happy to be there. I know several folks that do the same thing. They have a base in Jax even though they could live anywhere.
The vibe I get from Jax is very unique and very cool, once you scratch beneath the surface. The surface is Taco Bells, Starbucks, malls, and that homogenized culture that exists almost everywhere. If anyone is thinking the worth of a city is measured by homogenized culture then maybe the downtown and the intown neighborhoods of Jax are not for them. Montpelier is the only state capital without a McDonalds. Every time I goto Vermont a local brags about it. It's a badge of honor. Let's take up that same philosophy for Starbucks in our downtown. Screw Starbucks and homogenized culture.
And San Francisco has laws (called formula retail propositions) that ban chains in 75% of the city and also prides itself on an independent business community, but it still has at least 1-2 chain coffee shops on every single block downtown. There are 60,000 people that live in greater Montpelier. That's a single neighborhood in some places, so it's a little tough to compare to. Of course a little village in Vermont might be proud to not have a Starbucks, which is a big corporate chain from across the coast. But it's also the state capital of Vermont and sadly, a place that many if not most Americans have probably ever even heard of. I don't think Jacksonville is striving to be a city that nobody's even heard of.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 11, 2015, 12:38:48 PM
I work in DT a few days each week. We have a coffee machine in the office. That's where my daily cup comes from.
I grabbed a coffee earlier this morning down the street from where I live (at a local) and met a friend there, then we proceeded to walk to our bus stop and share a into work. I literally just walked into the kitchen and grabbed another cup of Peets coffee from our machine (the other machine has Starbucks). I don't see how an abundance of coffee shops and break room coffee can't coexist, since they do everywhere else, too.
Quote from: rylo on June 11, 2015, 12:58:24 PM
I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but Urban Grind is downtown on Bay street next to Regions across from the Wells Fargo. They started at the little kiosk in the BoA building.
Good to know. It actually sounds familiar - wondering if I've been there. Coffee is one of those things I check out when I stop through town.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 11, 2015, 12:36:13 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on June 11, 2015, 11:58:09 AM
QuoteJacksonville is the largest city by population in Florida, and the largest city by area in the contiguous United States. Thus, it wins this competition hands down.
Ennis, why did you include this?? Your ranking is compiled by metro area. Seems a bit deceptive to imply that we're bigger than any other "city" in FL yet we don't have a starbucks downtown.
If I did the list by city, it would make Jax look a lot worse, due to consolidation. Nevertheless, I felt that statement was a fact worth mentioning.
Exactly, that's why I think it's not appropriate to use arbitrary city limits data (in most instances) and also why it did not deserve mention in the article.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 11, 2015, 12:38:48 PM
I work in DT a few days each week. We have a coffee machine in the office. That's where my daily cup comes from.
A few years ago, there was a local coffee provider, Fazzini's (sp?), that provided those machines for many local offices. Dont know if that's still true.
I believe it is appropriate for the following reasons:
1. Instead of mentioning that it is the largest city in Florida...I also included "by population" and "area".
2. It was not used to generate the ranking at a detriment or benefit to Jax or any other community.
3. It's a fact (largest metro, largest city in Florida by population, largest city in America by land area, etc.) that is a major indictment of our downtown situation economically.
4. I see no reason to sugar coat reality to make things seem better than they really are.
IMO, we spend hours wondering if grand proposals like Khan's Shipyards, the Barnett, etc. will ever happen but in reality, we have a downtown market that's being avoided by some of the largest retailers in the country. My hope is that by exposing things like this, we can identify the core problems, discuss/debate, and resolve them, sooner than later.
I never understood why Maxwell House didn't put together a little coffee shop downtown. I know that retail is not their competitive advantage, but it would be something cool I think. I mean, we smell their coffee all day long when you're outside and then we go elsewhere and drink some coffee from some other brand.
I can get a good cup of coffee or espresso and socialize at the Landing, Urban Grind and especially Chamblin's. Shoot, Super Food makes a really good cup of coffee, and is great spot to meet up at. I guess it is just a matter of looking for better alternatives.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 11, 2015, 01:53:19 PM
I believe it is appropriate for the following reasons:
1. Instead of mentioning that it is the largest city in Florida...I also included "by population" and "area".
2. It was not used to generate the ranking at a detriment or benefit to Jax or any other community.
3. It's a fact (largest metro, largest city in Florida by population, largest city in America by land area, etc.) that is a major indictment of our downtown situation economically.
4. I see no reason to sugar coat reality to make things seem better than they really are.
IMO, we spend hours wondering if grand proposals like Khan's Shipyards, the Barnett, etc. will ever happen but in reality, we have a downtown market that's being avoided by some of the largest retailers in the country. My hope is that by exposing things like this, we can identify the core problems, discuss/debate, and resolve them, sooner than later.
Fine. I encounter enough people in my daily life who don't discern between metro and city statistics that I am certain there will be visitors to this article who are deceived. But I obviously respect you and your point, and agree with your intentions.
I don't understand how anyone can be deceived. In this particular case, Jax is number one, no matter which way we slice it. Going by metro, which is more reflective of our true size, we can see that at least there are three in the +1 million range. Go by city numbers and you'll have Jax at +800k by itself, and the next city not showing up till we get in the +400k range. Either way, Jax is the largest without a Starbucks downtown.
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 01:07:07 PMQuote from: thelakelander on June 11, 2015, 12:38:48 PM
I work in DT a few days each week. We have a coffee machine in the office. That's where my daily cup comes from.
I grabbed a coffee earlier this morning down the street from where I live (at a local) and met a friend there, then we proceeded to walk to our bus stop and share a into work. I literally just walked into the kitchen and grabbed another cup of Peets coffee from our machine (the other machine has Starbucks). I don't see how an abundance of coffee shops and break room coffee can't coexist, since they do everywhere else, too.
Oh, I wasn't making an excuse. They should be able to co-exist just fine. I use the machine because it's convenient. Anything else, would result in me having to alter my morning routine. There's two restaurants inside of the EverBank building but the coffee there isn't any better than what's coming out of our machine on the 14th floor.
Btw, I passed this in downtown Sarasota earlier this morning...
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Sarasota-2015/i-xThkhBN/0/L/DSCF6438-L.jpg)
Sarasota has a city population of 53k and a metro population of 720k. I also noticed these tall weird Ts and upside down L's all over the place!
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Sarasota-2015/i-q2DCC9B/0/X2/P1740585-X2.jpg)
Quote from: menace1069 on June 11, 2015, 01:59:22 PM
I never understood why Maxwell House didn't put together a little coffee shop downtown. I know that retail is not their competitive advantage, but it would be something cool I think. I mean, we smell their coffee all day long when you're outside and then we go elsewhere and drink some coffee from some other brand.
+1000
The problem is that Maxwell House isn't in the business of doing cool stuff for DT Jax. As much as I'd like them too, something tells me if they thought it would be profitable and worth the trouble, they would have already done it.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 11, 2015, 02:42:38 PM
I don't understand how anyone can be deceived.
???
The deception was in the sentence I said should not be included, not with the rankings or method. You know that i communicate frequently with foreignors based overseas and here in the US, usually in an attempt to sell or market jacksonville, and very often when they do their own research I have to explain the difference between city and metro.
^^^Well this article has nothing to do with selling or marketing the City of Jacksonville...and I doubt is anything you'd ever pass on to someone. Also, this website isn't in the business of phrasing articles according to how you may or may not communicate with foreigners. There is absolutely nothing cut and dry with describing the size of a "city" on any continent. Few people anywhere I'm sure think of a city only by its city limits (for instance, Jacksonville is not really the "biggest city in FL" and if anyone ever gives it any sort of brainpower at all beyond reading a stupid arbitrary stat on paper, nobody is concluding that Jacksonville is bigger than Miami). So I think "city" is a pretty interchangeable phrase that means more or less the same thing to most lay people.
Atlanta is a big city.
Nobody is taking that statement to mean the jagged city boundaries that encompass 400,000 people is "big". I think people take that to mean that Atlanta and its surroundings (which is what people think of when they think of Atlanta) is big, and encompasses millions of people. To most people, they don't know or care how many millions, but it's abundantly clear that Atlanta is one of the biggest "cities" in America, with millions of people. There are really only a few American cities that look, feel, and act their actual size per considerations of the global stage no matter how their stats are broken down (NYC, Chicago, Boston, Philly, SF, DC, Seattle, and LA). Any other cities are probably just going to confuse the hell out of foreigners anyway.
I'm sure those foreigners you speak of are utterly confused if you stick to city limits and tell them Jax has 900K people, which in their mind should look something like Prague or Stockholm. Perhaps you say Metro of 1.4 million. Still means in their mind it should look something like Prague or Stockholm. Either way, I'm sure, is super confusing to foreigners who come to the city and are wondering where "the city" is.
I digress...I thought today's article was very clear, and nothing changes no matter what stats or words on paper you decide to use. Jacksonville is the largest city in America, perhaps the entire Starbucks global footprint, without a Starbucks in its downtown area.
Margaret & Riverside is SUCH an arduous trek to DT... I'm so sick of this ongoing Starbucks barometer crap (whatever that is). If you wanted a Starbucks DT, you should've supported them (two) while they were here; Blame yourself. If you did supported them, obviously there wasn't enough of you.
^I guess we could say the same for Burger King, McDonald's, Wendy's, Firehouse Subs, JCPenney, Sears, Ruby Tuesday, GAP, Walgreens and a host of other businesses that have shuttered their downtown locations over the last 25 years.
Quote from: I-10east on June 11, 2015, 05:36:13 PM
Margaret & Riverside is SUCH an arduous trek to DT... I'm so sick of this ongoing Starbucks barometer crap (whatever that is). If you wanted a Starbucks DT, you should've supported them (two) while they were here; Blame yourself. If you did supported them, obviously there wasn't enough of you.
I don't think the issue is that people necessarily WANT a Starbucks downtown. It's what it means - or rather, what the fact that Starbucks doesn't have a location downtown means.
I don't think any of us would argue that downtown Jax couldn't - or shouldn't - improve. Downtown used to be quite vibrant. And even after it started dying, it was still better than it is now. Is it wrong to point that out and hope it could be better?
At the end of the day you need a good number of people living in downtown 24/7 to make these types of businesses work. That is why projects like the LST and Barnett are so important. Despite what people on here might think there are a lot of young people that would live downtown (speaking as one myself) if there were more choices than like 3 complexes and maybe some variation in price. As it stands there are a lot of great bars and restaurants downtown right now but they just don't stay open as often as they should because everyone leaves after 5. If we could actually show progress on housing options and maybe get our sh*t together on marketing our downtown to attract not only the rest of the city but the rest of the country, we would see a Starbucks open up within months.
We have done a good job on having more events in the core and cleaning up some places like Hemming Park but that isn't enough. The city needs to continually build on each small achievement not just pat ourselves on the back and chill on it whenever we figure out something almost every other place already knows. I love this city and there is a growing excitement about the core but its going to take hard work, ingenuity and people keeping to their commitments.
Quote from: Adam White on June 11, 2015, 05:48:34 PM
Is it wrong to point that out and hope it could be better?
Search the topic 'Starbucks'. 40 links of info (10 pages). Is it wrong to talk about wanting/lack of etc DT Starbucks? (which is what this topic is) Maybe not. Is it very repetitive? Yes. I'm not even complaining about the constant 'DT is lagging' comments; That's only to be expected.
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 05:32:06 PM
^^^Well this article has nothing to do with selling or marketing the City of Jacksonville...and I doubt is anything you'd ever pass on to someone.
You're right. I apologize for diverting the topic. It was a molehill and I didnt mean to make it more than that.
The article was indeed straightforward, but the sentence about city size was irrelevant, imo.
Quote from: simms3 on June 11, 2015, 05:32:06 PM
and if anyone ever gives it any sort of brainpower at all beyond reading a stupid arbitrary stat on paper, nobody is concluding that Jacksonville is bigger than Miami)
No, they go by stats on paper if that's all they have to go by. I HAVE heard people say that Jax is bigger than Miami. Obviously they're not about to make business decisions at that point, but it has been an initial misunderstanding on more than one occasion.
Quote from: I-10east on June 11, 2015, 06:15:27 PM
Quote from: Adam White on June 11, 2015, 05:48:34 PM
Is it wrong to point that out and hope it could be better?
Search the topic 'Starbucks'. 40 links of info (10 pages). Is it wrong to talk about wanting/lack of etc DT Starbucks? (which is what this topic is) Maybe not. Is it very repetitive? Yes. I'm not even complaining about the constant 'DT is lagging' comments; That's only to be expected.
Fair enough ;)
Old article I know, but I was thinking about this the other day and came across the article/discussion via google search. Seems of the other cities posted, only Tuscon still doesn't have a DT Starbucks in some form in the five years since this was posted. Others such as Rochester also have presence of other big chains such as Dunkin and another local WNY chain Spot have a presence there.
I guess its just a reflection of where the city is at and how businesses view it. You'd think with the likes of Vystar moving DT there would be the market for something. Maybe it'll be the karat dangled by Khan and Curry to get what they want! ;D
Khan and Curry's Lot J dream coming to fruition is a long term dream. At the earliest, nothing is opening there until closer to the end of this decade at best. I'd keep my eye on Brooklyn. Definitely can see a chain style coffee house type business opening on Riverside Avenue with FIS corporate headquarters coming in.
^On the plus side, Urban Grind reopened their downtown store, there's a new coffee shop coming to the old Vagabond spot, and you can still get Bold Bean at Bellwether, Seattle's Best at Brick, and coffee/tea at Chamblins. Last I heard, Vagabond is still planning to open their downtown flagship in the Barnett post-demic when the foot traffic returns. And if you're really jonesing for Starbucks, there's always the Hyatt. And, VyStar will have speciality coffee from Martin on tap as part of the new Bread and Board marketplace.
Agree though that a Starbucks proper would be a fantastic get for DT Jax, less because of a need more coffee and more from a perception perspective. Laura Street would be my preference. Either adjacent to the park as part of MOCA (the MOCA cafe shut down last week) or in one of the main llbrary's retail spaces (opened up to the sidewalk). Would be so nice to have an active space fronting Hemming Park and those sidewalks are wide enough to accommodate lots of outdoor seating.
Spending what we need to spend to get that retail space reconfigured (and the retail space in the office towers that Lake always talks about), getting the Trio going, and continuing to invest in James Weldon Park (still no new signage or new uniforms for the staff) would do more to jumpstart our downtown, at a much faster speed, at a much lower cost, than anything at the sports complex.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on November 22, 2020, 11:22:34 AM
^On the plus side, Urban Grind reopened their downtown store, there's a new coffee shop coming to the old Vagabond spot, and you can still get Bold Bean at Bellwether, Seattle's Best at Brick, and coffee/tea at Chamblins. Last I heard, Vagabond is still planning to open their downtown flagship in the Barnett post-demic when the foot traffic returns. And if you're really jonesing for Starbucks, there's always the Hyatt. And, VyStar will have speciality coffee from Martin on tap as part of the new Bread and Board marketplace.
Agree though that a Starbucks proper would be a fantastic get for DT Jax, less because of a need more coffee and more from a perception perspective. Laura Street would be my preference. Either adjacent to the park as part of MOCA (the MOCA cafe shut down last week) or in one of the main llbrary's retail spaces (opened up to the sidewalk). Would be so nice to have an active space fronting Hemming Park and those sidewalks are wide enough to accommodate lots of outdoor seating.
Spending what we need to spend to get that retail space reconfigured (and the retail space in the office towers that Lake always talks about), getting the Trio going, and continuing to invest in James Weldon Park (still no new signage or new uniforms for the staff) would do more to jumpstart our downtown, at a much faster speed, at a much lower cost, than anything at the sports complex.
I never realised there was a Starbucks in the Hyatt? Is it an actual Starbucks or do they just stock Starbucks products at their breakfast offerings, convenience/vending options or the like?
Edit: Another google search.....seemingly they do serve a limited Starbucks menu offering within their Market restaurant.
Perhaps another example of a building where the ground level spaces need to be better integrated into the sidewalks surrounding it or at least have some permanent outdoor signing and seating. What was an easy win and apparently a big miss with the Coastline Drive project as better integrating the Morton's space into the riverwalk. If there's a Starbucks (or anything else in these hotels that also accepts non hotel guest's money), they need to be better exposed to the street. It seems a lot of focus is on big ticket things that will take years and a lot of money to happen. We'd get so much further, cheaper and quicker, if there was some extra emphasis on the little things that maximize the businesses and amenities already in operation.
Morton's opened in 2017. Coastline Drive has somehow been going since 2015. That aside, absolutely true. I imagine it's one of the things that would be greatly improved by a well-developed master plan, with standards for street-facing public spaces.
It's been said before that our city is addicted to "game-changer" projects. No one wants to focus on getting the basic fundamentals right, because they're always chasing the next game-changer.
There's been a restaurant in the Morton's space since the hotel opened nearly 20 years ago. It may have been closed in 2015 but if we were planning to have a more vibrant riverwalk, that's a spot we should have treated differently. The new riverwalk is really uninspiring along Market Street.
Fair point. I suppose a master plan for the riverfront would have covered that, but of course, Jacksonville.
Okay, on top of Starbucks.....what about a CVS/Walgreens?
I think there might be a pharmacy only Walgreens within the BMC, but as far as full service goes?
Hmm? Definitely the only major city in Florida without a CVS/Walgreens in downtown.
That's... actually especially odd, now that I think about it. Even St. Augustine has both CVS and Walgreens in what people generally consider the "downtown" area. Maybe not quite within walking distance but still relatively close.
IIRC, I think there was once a discussion here on Metro JAcksonville/The Jaxson about developing the Landing (back when there was a Landing) and putting non-glamorous, but very practical tenants in it. I believe CVS was mentioned as an example of the sort of business that might not be "cool" but would be extremely worthwhile.
If you travel to any city, you'd not be crazy to expect to find things like drug stores, grocery stores or coffee shops downtown.
Wasn't the whole issue with getting CVS or Walgreens at the Landing something to do with parking? That doesn't seem to have been resolved at all.
A CVS or Walgreens was a potential tenant that Sleiman had mentioned would come with a renovated Landing that would have included dedicated parking for Landing tenants.
Ah yes, that's it. I guess we're not getting one now...
Nope. Not until we can find a space suitable for them.
I'm a Starbucks stock holder and it has performed very well. I'm also a customer. It happens to be my favorite cup of coffee, especially compared to gas station coffee or Dunkin donuts..... I buy the beans at Costco and grind at home for my morning pour over. We also have a nice espresso machine and my wife prefers that, with the same Starbucks French Roast bean.... They have proven themselves to be a high quality and very consistent provider to a very loyal customer base, the essence of a successful retail company or business.
Working at Jacksonville Symphony, I went to the old location at The Grass lot that used to be The Landing pretty much every day I worked at Jacoby Hall, along with a throng of musicians. It was a busy and profitable store. I asked but never got a true story about why they left, but it was not because of lack of customers. And I have stated before that had they moved it out onto the river with a riverfront terrace for seating, it would have drawn customers INSIDE The Landing, something that was missing. I blame that on Sleiman, he should know that store placement is very important. And The Landing desperately needed more foot traffic. (The success of The Urban Court foodtruck concept across the the Grass Lot is proof that this location works fine.)
There are plenty of decent locations for a Starbucks RIGHT NOW in downtown Jacksonville. Loyal customers would seek out and find a Starbucks. Out of towners almost always ask at the front desk of their hotel, "Is there a Starbucks nearby?" Our downtown is so small you could put it in a lot of locations and it would work. I think you need to hear from a local Starbucks Regional Manager to get an explanation as to why no store downtown Jax. It would do fine, AND COULD PROBABLY DRIVE AN INSANE BARGAIN RIGHT NOW REGARDING RENT since commercial real estate has taken a beating and there are empty spaces all over.
^I'm not sure why they left the Landing but they also closed the Starbucks in 11 East around the same time and it had free rent. I do recall when those two closures took place, Starbucks also closed hundreds of locations across the country.
Just did a quick drive through of DT and there appears to be several good spots within 2 blocks of the Adams St/Laura Street intersection. Also think the "Da Real Ting" location would be great. Or The Hamby Building/Atticus Bar.....
I suspect they'd go for space in one of the adaptive reuse projects like the Laura Street Trio before taking on a historic building renovation of their own. I also assume, like the Hyatt, the Trio hotel will probably serve Starbucks Coffee in their dining space. Many Courtyard by Marriotts have a coffee bar/dining spot with Starbucks Coffee. I'm not sure about Autograph Collection, assuming the brand switches to that. Also, I see that there is a Starbucks somewhere inside of Baptist Medical. Any idea of where that is in relation to a public entrance?
From my source that works at Baptist - at the downtown (Southbank) location, it is near the main entrance, come into the rotunda, turn right, and you will see the Starbucks. My source tells me all Baptist Hospital locations have Starbucks.
I'd assume this is a Starbucks that any one can walk into and pay cash for a cup of coffee. If that's the case, then could we say that Downtown Jacksonville does have a Starbucks?
https://www.starbucks.com/store-locator/store/1025882/baptist-medical-center-800-prudential-dr-jacksonville-fl-32207-us
If so, then it would fall in line with a long going theme of how important outdoor signage is for businesses open to the public that happen to be located in larger buildings like hospitals and office buildings.
No. I will not count it. 8) For God's sake, it need to be in the CBD. NOt a freakin hospital
Quote from: thelakelander on January 31, 2021, 06:40:16 PM
I'd assume this is a Starbucks that any one can walk into and pay cash for a cup of coffee. If that's the case, then could we say that Downtown Jacksonville does have a Starbucks?
https://www.starbucks.com/store-locator/store/1025882/baptist-medical-center-800-prudential-dr-jacksonville-fl-32207-us
If so, then it would fall in line with a long going theme of how important outdoor signage is for businesses open to the public that happen to be located in larger buildings like hospitals and office buildings.
Yes, anyone with a Tubman can get a Starbucks at the Baptist Medical Center location. But, why would you want to subject yourself to whatever diseases are floating around and the chore of finding parking in one of the garages - which aren't all that close to the main entrance.
That may get a bit easier when these spaces open. Given that there is probably more traffic and density at the intersection of Palm Avenue and Prudential Drive than anywhere else in DT Jax, I would not be surprised to see these spaces fill up pretty quick. It's actually pretty easy to park in the new garage on Palm Avenue and reach this spot.
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Urban-Project-Renderings/i-pgGrhq9/0/ef3ea1e0/L/Cam-C_Palm-Ave-Perspective-1-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/841-Prudential-Parking-Garage-Retail/i-wVFjXMC/0/1895ed58/X2/20201112_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_019-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/841-Prudential-Parking-Garage-Retail/i-VpxVZxt/0/55614d09/X2/20201112_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_025-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/841-Prudential-Parking-Garage-Retail/i-gQh2fTm/0/0011f2f2/X2/20201112_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_026-X2.jpg)