Here's an update on the Tampa-Jacksonville corridor study FDOT is doing
http://tbo.com/news/business/critics-say-states-plans-along-corridors-endanger-environment-20150607/
Incremental upgrades to 301 is the most cost effective approach. Uses existing ROW as much as possible and doesnt promote outright sprawl.
Quote from: spuwho on June 09, 2015, 03:18:48 PM
Incremental upgrades to 301 is the most cost effective approach. Uses existing ROW as much as possible and doesnt promote outright sprawl.
I agree. I drive this route from Jax to Tampa at least once a month and aside from a little congestion in Stark, 10 to 301 to 75 is a fairly direct shot between the two cities.
Maybe a Stark bypass and less direct access to 301 as the article indicates.
Quote from: dp8541 on June 09, 2015, 03:47:16 PM
Quote from: spuwho on June 09, 2015, 03:18:48 PM
Incremental upgrades to 301 is the most cost effective approach. Uses existing ROW as much as possible and doesnt promote outright sprawl.
I agree. I drive this route from Jax to Tampa at least once a month and aside from a little congestion in Stark, 10 to 301 to 75 is a fairly direct shot between the two cities.
Maybe a Stark bypass and less direct access to 301 as the article indicates.
You speak, and DOT listens: http://www.d2wpph.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Bradford.pdf
See the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th projects on the first page "SR 223/ALT US 301 TRUCK ROUTE" - a bypass around Starke, to be built starting in Fiscal Year 2016. A little more than $100 million in construction cost
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 09, 2015, 09:48:51 PM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 09, 2015, 07:31:02 PM
Quote from: dp8541 on June 09, 2015, 03:47:16 PM
Quote from: spuwho on June 09, 2015, 03:18:48 PM
Incremental upgrades to 301 is the most cost effective approach. Uses existing ROW as much as possible and doesnt promote outright sprawl.
I agree. I drive this route from Jax to Tampa at least once a month and aside from a little congestion in Stark, 10 to 301 to 75 is a fairly direct shot between the two cities.
Maybe a Stark bypass and less direct access to 301 as the article indicates.
You speak, and DOT listens: http://www.d2wpph.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Bradford.pdf
See the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th projects on the first page "SR 223/ALT US 301 TRUCK ROUTE" - a bypass around Starke, to be built starting in Fiscal Year 2016. A little more than $100 million in construction cost
Great idea, kill another vibrant small downtown with a highway bypass... Sell the locals on all of the new BK'S and Mickey D's they're going to get. I'm so excited I could just puke.
BTW, ever notice that little railroad crossing on 301 on the southside of Starke? Every few years the State of Florida updates it's 'RAIL PLAN,' an official document packed with all sorts of interesting ideas and facts. I've read these on and off since at least 1970 +/- . What ever state plan you read you will see future passenger rail, freight volumes, branchlines, and a section dedicated to line segments where, 'Abandonment application anticipated without state intervention.' What makes Florida's such a waste of paper is year after year these lines are identified then erased from the following years document! GONE! I've see it shrivel from 5,700 miles to 2,786 miles and shrinking... Other states have bought and rehabilitated thousands of miles of track, then leased the operation of these lines to shortline carriers such as First Coast or the St. Marys Railroad. Some states have added dozens of conventional passenger trains while others have given birth to whole new corridors 'Carolina', 'Pacific Northwest' etc.. So the track at that crossing leads to Alachua, and from Alachua to Gainesville and to Trenton and Dunnellon. In fact it once led from Alachua to Gainesville to Dunellon to Inverness to Brooksville to Tampa. Then the all knowing state let not one but three routes connecting Dunnellon with Tampa be pulled from the earth, a gaping hole between Brooksville and Dunnellon exactly on the route of the Suncoast or Tampa-Jacksonville Highway. Florida will do nothing more then blot out a few more miles while it moves to pave the way for a digital truck convoy through the heart of the state. If the lost segments could be replaced the railroad wouldn't need to be widened... EVER! Chirp...
Quote from: spuwho on June 09, 2015, 03:18:48 PM
Incremental upgrades to 301 is the most cost effective approach. Uses existing ROW as much as possible and doesnt promote outright sprawl.
problem is that doesn't fit the agenda of those controlling the strings
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 09, 2015, 07:31:02 PM
Quote from: dp8541 on June 09, 2015, 03:47:16 PM
Quote from: spuwho on June 09, 2015, 03:18:48 PM
Incremental upgrades to 301 is the most cost effective approach. Uses existing ROW as much as possible and doesnt promote outright sprawl.
I agree. I drive this route from Jax to Tampa at least once a month and aside from a little congestion in Stark, 10 to 301 to 75 is a fairly direct shot between the two cities.
Maybe a Stark bypass and less direct access to 301 as the article indicates.
You speak, and DOT listens: http://www.d2wpph.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Bradford.pdf
See the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th projects on the first page "SR 223/ALT US 301 TRUCK ROUTE" - a bypass around Starke, to be built starting in Fiscal Year 2016. A little more than $100 million in construction cost
Great idea, kill another vibrant small downtown with a highway bypass... Sell the locals on all of the new BK'S and Mickey D's they're going to get. I'm so excited I could just puke.
BTW, ever notice that little railroad crossing on 301 on the southside of Starke? Every few years the State of Florida updates it's 'RAIL PLAN,' an official document packed with all sorts of interesting ideas and facts. I've read these on and off since at least 1970 +/- . What ever state plan you read you will see future passenger rail, freight volumes, branchlines, and a section dedicated to line segments where, 'Abandonment application anticipated without state intervention.' What makes Florida's such a waste of paper is year after year these lines are identified then erased from the following years document! GONE! I've see it shrivel from 5,700 miles to 2,786 miles and shrinking... Other states have bought and rehabilitated thousands of miles of track, then leased the operation of these lines to shortline carriers such as First Coast or the St. Marys Railroad. Some states have added dozens of conventional passenger trains while others have given birth to whole new corridors 'Carolina', 'Pacific Northwest' etc.. So the track at that crossing leads to Alachua, and from Alachua to Gainesville and to Trenton and Dunnellon. In fact it once led from Alachua to Gainesville to Dunellon to Inverness to Brooksville to Tampa. Then the all knowing state let not one but three routes connecting Dunnellon with Tampa be pulled from the earth, a gaping hole between Brooksville and Dunnellon exactly on the route of the Suncoast or Tampa-Jacksonville Highway. Florida will do nothing more then blot out a few more miles while it moves to pave the way for a digital truck convoy through the heart of the state. If the lost segments could be replaced the railroad wouldn't need to be widened... EVER! Chirp...
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 09, 2015, 10:21:31 PM
Great idea, kill another vibrant small downtown with a highway bypass... Sell the locals on all of the new BK'S and Mickey D's they're going to get. I'm so excited I could just puke.
Just passed through Starke about an hour ago on my way back from Ocala. I agree that once that bypass opens, most of those businesses along 301 are toast.
Drove to Tarpon Springs Sunday. Decided to "skip" 301 - chose one of about three alternatives.
On the way back today,exited I-75 via one of a couple of alternatives at the Gainesville area,eased on up 301.
So glad,just North of Lawtey (Highland in fact), glanced over in solemn appreciation to a locked gate- entry to my private recreation lease,one of many members within the sprawling private land complex part and parcel to the Osceola National Forest to Raiford/Jennings Forest/Camp Blanding to Ocala National Forest Conservation Corridor. ("O2O").
O2O has emerged as key element in future highway planing.
(Starke Bypass avoids Corridor lands)
Governor Martinez era Jax/Tampa promotions,efforts were helpful.
301 post Bypass could make for a dandy Starke Downtown Nirvana.
Over the years,the roar of 301 traffic has become much more noticeable at my camp well west...........
Quote from: thelakelander on June 09, 2015, 10:25:23 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 09, 2015, 10:21:31 PM
Great idea, kill another vibrant small downtown with a highway bypass... Sell the locals on all of the new BK'S and Mickey D's they're going to get. I'm so excited I could just puke.
Just passed through Starke about an hour ago on my way back from Ocala. I agree that once that bypass opens, most of those businesses along 301 are toast.
maybe not....not too many people travelling through Starke stop at any of the places....I do maybe once every 10 times I go through....they are mainly serving the local market.
that said, it will depend on what land uses are permitted adjacent to the bypass.....Thomasville, GA has a truck bypass with little business along it...much of the strip retail exists in the two places where the bypass joins back with US 319.
I'm pretty sure starke will be fine. Some hotels and restaurants might suffer, but generally it will be OK. It's about the size of Live Oak (~6k people) which is more than enough to support the shops they have in town. I think Bradford Co. has all it's festivals there too, which draws people from Jax and surrounding areas.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 10, 2015, 09:48:47 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 09, 2015, 10:25:23 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 09, 2015, 10:21:31 PM
Great idea, kill another vibrant small downtown with a highway bypass... Sell the locals on all of the new BK'S and Mickey D's they're going to get. I'm so excited I could just puke.
Just passed through Starke about an hour ago on my way back from Ocala. I agree that once that bypass opens, most of those businesses along 301 are toast.
maybe not....not too many people travelling through Starke stop at any of the places....I do maybe once every 10 times I go through....they are mainly serving the local market.
that said, it will depend on what land uses are permitted adjacent to the bypass.....Thomasville, GA has a truck bypass with little business along it...much of the strip retail exists in the two places where the bypass joins back with US 319.
This...When I drive through Stark the only places I stop are for quick food and gas. Exiting off of a bypass is not going to stop me from grabbing food/gas in Stark.
The through traffic is not what is supporting the majority of the businesses in the town either directly off of 301 or in the small downtown area.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 10, 2015, 09:48:47 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 09, 2015, 10:25:23 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 09, 2015, 10:21:31 PM
Great idea, kill another vibrant small downtown with a highway bypass... Sell the locals on all of the new BK'S and Mickey D's they're going to get. I'm so excited I could just puke.
Just passed through Starke about an hour ago on my way back from Ocala. I agree that once that bypass opens, most of those businesses along 301 are toast.
maybe not....not too many people travelling through Starke stop at any of the places....I do maybe once every 10 times I go through....they are mainly serving the local market.
that said, it will depend on what land uses are permitted adjacent to the bypass.....Thomasville, GA has a truck bypass with little business along it...much of the strip retail exists in the two places where the bypass joins back with US 319.
Sending the bypass west along the lakes (including the local 'beach' park) and uprooting 16 and or 100 through downtown (up and over the railroad) should just about do it. Routing the traffic off of 301, then taking the local traffic off of the two principal downtown streets is a death sentence. One only needs to travel the sights of old Route 66, America's 'Mother Road,' to see what the Interstate and bypass projects did to dozens of similar sized towns.
^ Starke is pretty much the only bottleneck along 301 from Ocala up to I-10. I'm willing to accept a bypass there is it delays the "need" for a new highway that replaces 301.
Quote from: dp8541 on June 10, 2015, 10:10:04 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 10, 2015, 09:48:47 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 09, 2015, 10:25:23 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 09, 2015, 10:21:31 PM
Great idea, kill another vibrant small downtown with a highway bypass... Sell the locals on all of the new BK'S and Mickey D's they're going to get. I'm so excited I could just puke.
Just passed through Starke about an hour ago on my way back from Ocala. I agree that once that bypass opens, most of those businesses along 301 are toast.
maybe not....not too many people travelling through Starke stop at any of the places....I do maybe once every 10 times I go through....they are mainly serving the local market.
that said, it will depend on what land uses are permitted adjacent to the bypass.....Thomasville, GA has a truck bypass with little business along it...much of the strip retail exists in the two places where the bypass joins back with US 319.
This...When I drive through Stark the only places I stop are for quick food and gas. Exiting off of a bypass is not going to stop me from grabbing food/gas in Stark.
The through traffic is not what is supporting the majority of the businesses in the town either directly off of 301 or in the small downtown area.
Quick food and gas....that's what exists on 301 in Starke. Build a bypass to open up virgin land to commercial development....and that new development will replace what's on 301 because the market isn't big enough to support both. Good examples of bypasses reshaping commercial land development patterns in small cities include Plant City, Bartow, Auburndale, FL and Dothan, AL. Heck, locally, I-95 serving as a bypass to Main Street essentially took out its vibrancy between the Southbank and Panama Park.
^^ Lakelander is correct, there's only so much traffic, so much disposable income and so many options along any stretch of road. People will normally choose the easiest and quickest route between two points.
When we were children we'd make a game out of going to U.S. 17 (Main Street) and counting the numerous out-of-state license plates. President Kennedy came to town, and there was a parade down Main Street. It was, well - the main street in old Jacksonville (defined between the St. Johns River and the Trout River back then).
As the Interstate grew in popularity, more and more locals and tourists were diverted to this option. Clusters of development and commerce sprouted along the various exits, but traffic starvation occurred along Main. To this day (over 50 years) there's still a section of this road that struggles with multiple reuses of old buildings and infrastructure that used to flourish.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 10, 2015, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: dp8541 on June 10, 2015, 10:10:04 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 10, 2015, 09:48:47 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 09, 2015, 10:25:23 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 09, 2015, 10:21:31 PM
Great idea, kill another vibrant small downtown with a highway bypass... Sell the locals on all of the new BK'S and Mickey D's they're going to get. I'm so excited I could just puke.
Just passed through Starke about an hour ago on my way back from Ocala. I agree that once that bypass opens, most of those businesses along 301 are toast.
maybe not....not too many people travelling through Starke stop at any of the places....I do maybe once every 10 times I go through....they are mainly serving the local market.
that said, it will depend on what land uses are permitted adjacent to the bypass.....Thomasville, GA has a truck bypass with little business along it...much of the strip retail exists in the two places where the bypass joins back with US 319.
This...When I drive through Stark the only places I stop are for quick food and gas. Exiting off of a bypass is not going to stop me from grabbing food/gas in Stark.
The through traffic is not what is supporting the majority of the businesses in the town either directly off of 301 or in the small downtown area.
Quick food and gas....that's what exists on 301 in Starke. Build a bypass to open up virgin land to commercial development....and that new development will replace what's on 301 because the market isn't big enough to support both. Good examples of bypasses reshaping commercial land development patterns in small cities include Plant City, Bartow, Auburndale, FL and Dothan, AL. Heck, locally, I-95 serving as a bypass to Main Street essentially took out its vibrancy between the Southbank and Panama Park.
I believe the plan is for it to be a limited access bypass with no exits until you get back to 301. I think it is GREAT. Going through Starke with all these huge trucks and the mess it causes going down 301 is such a pain and is not good for the city or commuters. The only business that will be lost may be some fast food restaurants because it is not like there are any real restaurants on the route anyway (except Sonny's and Country Western Buffet which I am guessing are aimed more at locals).
Make 301 more limited access and it should do the trick they are looking at. It would be nice if they could figure a way out to stop Lawtey from existing since all they do is pull people over for revenue and slow traffic down. I would love to see the Suncoast Parkway come and connect with 75 since it is out there anyway and be an alternate route from using 275 and having to go through Malfunction Junction in Tampa to get to Westshore or Pinellas. The Suncoast kind of just sits out in Citrus county with no purpose at the moment.
The Suncoast to I-75 link may be a possibility for the Tampa-Jax Corridor.
Here is the DOT Future Corridor Website: http://www.dot.state.fl.us/planning/policy/corridors/
Some day we might conceive of new roadway without assumed concurrent expanded vesting/development. Not only 'limited access', but truly limited development. :o
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 11, 2015, 09:18:56 PM
The Suncoast to I-75 link may be a possibility for the Tampa-Jax Corridor.
Here is the DOT Future Corridor Website: http://www.dot.state.fl.us/planning/policy/corridors/
I may be the only one on here but I think this is needed. Traffic between Ocala and Tampa is rarely good. There is really no alternative right now. Hopefully they can figure out a way to use some existing ROW and take the Suncoast around Gainesville to 301. Continue with some improvements on 301 since they are investing in this bypass.
How could the Outer Beltway play into this you think since (even though it is an awful idea) it is going to get built?
^ I drive to Tampa for work nearly every other week. I rarely have trouble on I-75 from SR 326 (north of Ocala) down to the Turnpike split. From there, the road is just 4 lanes and often goes slow (like say 70 mph). But they are widening it to 6 lanes right now. That will alleviate much of the congestion.
For future needs, why not put managed lanes on I-75 from the turnpike north....in this case maybe not tolled express lanes but instead truck only lanes. This seems like a far better solution than building a new highway through Citrus and Marion Counties. Oh wait...I forgot....the new highway would open up land for new development....and since it will be tolled and connected to the Suncoast Parkway/Veterans Expressway, will bring FDOT money for even more roads!
As for the Outer Beltway question, the corridor being studied extends northeast from Ocala and Gainesville. Imagine a new highway crossing over and meeting up with the Outer Beltway in Clay County instead of with I-10 @ US 301. I think this is the much unspoken part of the agenda, as it would allow for "free-flow" connections to Jax. as well as I-95 in St. Johns Counties.
Honestly, it will be a long long time before there is serious development as a result of a Suncoast extension. Gainesville/Ocala aren't ready to support commuters. The Suncoast is already in Citrus. Cutting it up through Citrus and Marion I doubt will do anything for a long time. But one thing you are missing is the fact that if you are looking to go to Westshore or Pinellas County coming south, there is no way to go by limited access highway except right by downtown Tampa and Malfunction Junction. This would be a great alternative.
Governor Martinez era push for Jax/Tampa was telling. Alachua County played effective NO role. (along with then emerging Jennings State Forest acquisition concept- one Jax/Tampa route would have crossed Black Creek within eye sight of my family's place on Black Creek/Middleburg. That Was Easy! 8) )
Alachua Plum Creek might have considered itself Jax/Tampa Player but pesky Alachua County Comp Plan / Citizen role might yet again prove pivotal role.
Alachua was very anti-growth for a long time. However, they are now seeing explosive growth and have been more growth friendly (although maybe too friendly of late on Archer). I think this may be received a lot better today than 25 years ago (especially with UF wanting to exploit its proximity to Tampa and Jax more).
Quote from: For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A on June 12, 2015, 02:53:21 PM
The Suncoast is already in Citrus.
you might want to look at a map. The Suncoast Parkway ends at US 98 in Hernando County.
As for going to Westshore, you are correct...one has to go through downtown Tampa but that isn't bad at all. Once the I-275 widening is done and the express lanes are added in a few years, it will be smooth sailing on the "freeway"
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 13, 2015, 07:42:41 PM
Quote from: For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A on June 12, 2015, 02:53:21 PM
The Suncoast is already in Citrus.
you might want to look at a map. The Suncoast Parkway ends at US 98 in Hernando County.
As for going to Westshore, you are correct...one has to go through downtown Tampa but that isn't bad at all. Once the I-275 widening is done and the express lanes are added in a few years, it will be smooth sailing on the "freeway"
I hope you are joking about 275 being smooth sailing. it is no I-4 but it can be bad at any time of day. My bad on the Suncoast, it is right on the border of Citrus and Hernando. Missed it by .8 miles.
^ please reread my comment. I said "one the I-275 widening is done and the express lanes are added in a few years" it will be smooth sailing. Even now, it rarely takes more than 10-15 minutes to travel the 5 miles from downtown to the airport/bay. Not exactly a major delay in a 3+ hour trip to/from Jacksonville.
I'm willing to bet that a new highway would actually be a longer distance, thereby negating most time savings over the 301/I-75 route
(http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/83c34f74912b7a30fc9aebbc4bb4ed468d2d2b16/c=0-3-534-405&r=x383&c=540x380/local/-/media/2015/02/06/WTLV/WTLV/635588240077775539-Regional-gaps-MAIN.PNG)