A pretty good article about Peter Rummell's vision for Healthy Town in the FTU today:
QuotePeter Rummell looks at the overgrown vacant lot and his imagination slips into fifth gear.
Rummell, 69, intends to take the weed-filled eyesore and turn it into something that will draw attention to Jacksonville and provide a healthy dose of adrenaline to a downtown that closes up after dark except for a few weeks a year.
"I have for the most part, been what I call a place-maker. ... I have always built places like I was going to live there and I have lived in most of them," said Rummell, whose real estate career began in 1971 with the Sea Pines Co., developer of Hilton Head Island, S.C., and Amelia Island in Nassau County.
"I've learned to think in three dimensions," Rummell said as he prepares to undertake what is likely one of the most challenging projects in his career. "You sort of just close your eyes and superimpose things. This, to me, is the fun part of the creative process because going from nothing to something is complicated. It's amazing how sort of early, little decisions can really make a big difference."
Rummell said it's almost like translating languages to some degree, seeing potential in the scrubby riverfront lot of 29 acres he and his partners will buy for slightly more than $17 million and turning it into a reality.
Healthy Town, an urban resort capitalizing on its St. Johns River location downtown, will be a community branded by Rummell's vision. That vision is shaped by the well-known communities of Celebration near Orlando and WaterColor, the beachside development along the Florida's Panhandle's blue waters.
For Jacksonville, Rummell sees a community designed to promote optimal health for its residents whether they walk, run, bicycle, kayak or do yoga. Stairs will be more prominent than elevators to nudge people into unintentional exercise.
"Everybody gets it. The confluence of healthy living and place-making is something that people get. They understand it, and they understand that the place you live can make a difference in how you live and that can affect your health," Rummell said.
Healthy Town also will be a destination, Rummell said, featuring top-of-the-line restaurants, bars and shops.
"We're not going to put a Hooters on the river here. ... This will be unique," he said, declining to identify what restaurants or bars will be built. "You learn very quickly that a community is not just bricks and mortar. It's the essence of what it is and the people and how they work."
Rummell sees Healthy Town as a prototype, a transferable idea with the potential to become a model for cities around the world.
"If it becomes what we want it to be, I hope it will give us bragging rights," he said. "... I'm sick of the Chamber of Commerce going to Charlotte and Nashville to see what the good ideas are. My definition of success for Jacksonville is, I want the Charlotte and Nashville chambers to come here."
Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-06-06/story/peter-rummell-eyes-400-million-vision-healthy-town-along-st-johns-river
You don't have to to Charlotte or Nashville. Start in Greenville SC and you will see one of the most amazing transformations in the Southeast.
I just got back and was blown away by what they have done around an old mill stream and some falls that lazily navigate their way through downtown Greenville. Almost 100% of the Historic building stock is still in place, most of it home to cool bars and shops, while all around it is new construction that dazzles they eye. If you haven't been lately then be sure to plan a long Saturday afternoon strolling downtown Greenville in the near future. Their downtown Saturday morning market is twice the size of RAM and is actually (in my opinion) better set up for patron and customer interaction.
Go in the Fall and it might be even better as the leaves change and the air gets cool.
It's been a few years since I stopped in Greenville, but here's a few pics from a tour Vicupstate took me on in 2008:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-mar-learning-from-greenville-sc
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4132-p1070162.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4153-p1070098.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4194-p1070173.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4191-p1070149.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4145-p1070124.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4133-p1070107.JPG)
You don't have to drive that far. It's pretty hard to find a decent size city in this country that hasn't achieved great things over the last 15 years.
Great downtowns are pretty easy to spot, they are like bee hives. People always in motion, stuff going on, and everything pretty clean and well maintained.
I hope the new Mayor will share and embrace the vision of the leaders in Jacksonville, like Rummell. Sad to hear though that Mr. Haskell will be stepping down soon.
I'm sure he will, until Rummell asks for some City money. He certainly won't be the only one asking. It will be interesting to see how the new "fiscally conservative" Mayor feels about investing in downtown Jacksonville.
Yeah, hopefully Curry will take up the Downtown projects waiting in the wings, but there are going to be a lot of tough decisions to be made to get the budget back in order. I doubt there will be enough new spending to cover all the projects. Projects like Healthy Town, that aren't going to require big incentives, are probably safe, but the ones that need (or want) a lot of public assistance may be in more trouble. I expect that Toney Sleiman's proposed Landing redevelopment, which was seeking $12 million, is going to look a *lot* different, for instance.
How often is it that projects such as these get ZERO to little money upfront? I'm just curious how/why a city wouldn't negotiate deals that allows for all of the incentives to kick in on the back-end once the project is completed. These groups have the financing in place to get these projects done without the need for assistance, it just helps their bottom lines, so why not start turning dirt?
In cases like the Shipyards, I feel the city should take care of the remediation, but that's only because they're going to have to do it anyhow, eventually.
It's been pretty rare that these projects come together without any incentives. From what I understand, Healthy Town could come together with the incentives on the back end through tax breaks. Other projects, not so much. There's no way Sleiman was going to turn dirt without a lot of money up front, but that project is unlikely to happen in that way with Brown heading out of office.
How would you guys rank the importance of proposed projects for downtown in terms of city funding? This would be mine personally.
1. Laura Street Trio
2. Shipyards
3. Landing
4. Healthy Town (just because they seem to have their funding in order)
Quote from: thelakelander on June 07, 2015, 01:28:55 PM
It's been a few years since I stopped in Greenville.....
You don't have to drive that far. It's pretty hard to find a decent size city in this country that hasn't achieved great things over the last 15 years.
Lakelander,
I spent my summers in grad school in the Spartanburg/Greenville area. It's amazing how Greenville has evolved over the past few years. Everyone I knew that grew up there told me 15-20 years ago, you did not want to be downtown after 5 PM. Now, they have incredible nightlife, dining, and great walking trails to explore during the day.
With the right leadership, I truly believe we can replicate their success. Hopefully Mr. Curry is the man to get the ball rolling, but it depends on the level of his fiscal conservatism. It would be nice if we can get out of our own way soon enough....
Quote from: UNFurbanist on June 08, 2015, 11:17:29 AM
How would you guys rank the importance of proposed projects for downtown in terms of city funding? This would be mine personally.
1. Laura Street Trio
2. Shipyards
3. Landing
4. Healthy Town (just because they seem to have their funding in order)
Like I mentioned above, I think they all deserve assistance, but....
The majority of the money needs to find it's way towards the back-end of the project. And I'm not suggesting that we pigeon-hole that money into tax incentives and rebates. If the project can warrant the need for $50M in city funding, then I'm all for those being cash payments, but made in the future after the project hits predetermined benchmarks. Much like traditional construction funding.
That said, I rank the importance based on what I feel is the city's liability in the first place (i.e. if the city had done it's due diligence, the costs wouldn't be so high to begin with):
1. Laura Street Trio - The building were allowed to deteriorate - don't know who/how long the properties were neglectfully owned, but someone should have stepped in long ago.
2. Shipyards - Remediation of the land has been known and has been in the city's hands for a decade.
3. Landing - Many issues here, but personal feuding has prevented either side from making this right.
4. Healthy Town - Private venture all the way, but should be allowed a solid margin of help due to infill development.
Quote from: MusicMan on June 07, 2015, 01:23:33 PM
You don't have to to Charlotte or Nashville. Start in Greenville SC and you will see one of the most amazing transformations in the Southeast.
I just got back and was blown away by what they have done around an old mill stream and some falls that lazily navigate their way through downtown Greenville. Almost 100% of the Historic building stock is still in place, most of it home to cool bars and shops, while all around it is new construction that dazzles they eye. If you haven't been lately then be sure to plan a long Saturday afternoon strolling downtown Greenville in the near future. Their downtown Saturday morning market is twice the size of RAM and is actually (in my opinion) better set up for patron and customer interaction.
Go in the Fall and it might be even better as the leaves change and the air gets cool.
I hear many urban planners, downtown pioneers, visitors, and residents scream the praises of Greenville but I always wondered about Spartanburg which shares the same TV/radio stations, regiaonal job market, educational opportunities, etc. Neighboring cities of similar size have always spurred friendly and not-so-friendly one-uppance rivalries and I was curious what Spartanburg was doing to keep up with the Joneses (bad pun intended).
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on June 08, 2015, 12:44:32 PM
Quote from: MusicMan on June 07, 2015, 01:23:33 PM
You don't have to to Charlotte or Nashville. Start in Greenville SC and you will see one of the most amazing transformations in the Southeast.
I just got back and was blown away by what they have done around an old mill stream and some falls that lazily navigate their way through downtown Greenville. Almost 100% of the Historic building stock is still in place, most of it home to cool bars and shops, while all around it is new construction that dazzles they eye. If you haven't been lately then be sure to plan a long Saturday afternoon strolling downtown Greenville in the near future. Their downtown Saturday morning market is twice the size of RAM and is actually (in my opinion) better set up for patron and customer interaction.
Go in the Fall and it might be even better as the leaves change and the air gets cool.
I hear many urban planners, downtown pioneers, visitors, and residents scream the praises of Greenville but I always wondered about Spartanburg which shares the same TV/radio stations, regiaonal job market, educational opportunities, etc. Neighboring cities of similar size have always spurred friendly and not-so-friendly one-uppance rivalries and I was curious what Spartanburg was doing to keep up with the Joneses (bad pun intended).
I live in Greenville and keep tabs on Spartanburg as well. Spartanburg was definitely late to the game, compared to Greenville, and doesn't have a pretty river/park to work with. That said, it has made slow but steady progress over the years. The pace of which has picked up dramatically in the last 2-3 years. Spartanburg moved away from the 'urban surburban office park' model of revitalization, to something that genuinely works. I'll call it the 'Lakelander' model of residences, restaurants, critical mass creation.
I started a thread about a program Spartanburg has that led to a lot of renovation and new small businesses without costing that much. It has done very well for them. Even many of the businesses that DIDN"T get money still opened, and the number of vacancies is way down from before. The energy and momentum alone was quite beneficial.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=16888.0 (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=16888.0)
Went to Sweet Pete's on Sunday and could not believe the amount of people walking around the block on a Sunday. It goes to show what 1 place can do. There were even families and little kids in Hemming Plaza. I have never seen this in my 5 years in Jax. You can see how important connectivity is to DT and how close the Laura St Trio is to all this action. It is a shame the city can't see it. Personally, I hope Curry proves me wrong, but he seems a lot like the hot air gov we have had around here after Delaney.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on June 08, 2015, 04:09:56 PM
Went to Sweet Pete's on Sunday and could not believe the amount of people walking around the block on a Sunday. It goes to show what 1 place can do. There were even families and little kids in Hemming Plaza. I have never seen this in my 5 years in Jax. You can see how important connectivity is to DT and how close the Laura St Trio is to all this action. It is a shame the city can't see it.
I was in JAX in April for the first time in about 18 months and Sweet Pete's was easily the most impressive and promising change I had witnessed since my last visit. It is indeed destinations like S.P. that will potentially turn the tide DT. Glad to see them expanding.
From what I understand, their investor wanted the towncenter. Pretty glad that didn't happen. There are some good things happening DT, but at a pretty slow pace. I see the Trio as a no brainer to kick things into gear.
I lived in Greenville for 2 years before moving down here a couple years ago. In my opinion, Greenville's downtown is what makes it a great town. No matter how old you were or if you had kids or if you were in high school, everyone went downtown to do something. It was great. You'd be walking around at 9 pm on a Monday night and there would be people of all ages just out and about downtown. But it wasn't always like that, which is what is encouraging for places like Jacksonville. I spoke with many people who grew up there and Greenville went from a dead downtown that nobody went to, to one of the most vibrant urban cores in the country let alone southeast. There was a busy highway that went right over what is now Falls Park downtown (one of the most beautiful parks in the country), they tore that down (much like Jax needs to tear down the elevated highway on Bay Street), and now it is one of the best attractions of downtown.
Also, if you are a pessimist about downtown Jax revitalization, just do a little research on what's going on in Detroit. Massive redevelopment of downtown and the Midtown neighborhood. Things are progressing unbelievably there, with new restaurants and infill projects. They are restoring historic buildings rather than tearing them down and even though Detroit has a long way to go, it is making great progress. Honestly, coming from a Michigan native who has seen a lot of Detroit in my lifetime, if Detroit can do it, Jax can do it. The people need to have passion for their city and believe it can happen. I would also say, if Greenville can do it, Jax can do it.
What do Detroit and Greenville have in common? Great leadership. People with vision and knowledge of how to actually get stuff done.
Quote from: CCMjax on June 08, 2015, 06:40:17 PM
What do Detroit and Greenville have in common? Great leadership. People with vision and knowledge of how to actually get stuff done.
Detroit?? I'm sorry but 'great leadership' doesn't come to mind when I think the Motor City.
I would agree with the order of importance.
1. Laura Street Trio / Barnett Bldg (these are the most historically and architecturally significant structures downtown, without them this city loses a lot of its history and a lot of its soul, without soul a city has nothing. You never get them back once they are torn down).
2. Shipyards development/Bay Street elevated highway removal (Khan has billions and wants to use some of it there now, the city needs to work with him. There aren't many billionaires out there willing to throw down in Jax right now).
3. Landing Redevelopment (when I first went there about 5 years ago, I thought it was a shopping mall food court from the 80's transported downtown from some distant suburb, and laughed when I heard that was the big attraction downtown. Such an odd design, why cut downtown off from the river with the ugly backside of a bizarre looking horseshoe looking thingy? Need to open it up and need more greenspace, also need residents)
4. Healthy Town (stupid name but great idea, I like what he's done elsewhere, but I think north bank is more important than south bank right now since it is the heart and soul of the urban core)
Quote from: I-10east on June 08, 2015, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: CCMjax on June 08, 2015, 06:40:17 PM
What do Detroit and Greenville have in common? Great leadership. People with vision and knowledge of how to actually get stuff done.
Detroit?? I'm sorry but 'great leadership' doesn't come to mind when I think the Motor City.
That was true in years past, very very true. But they have a new mayor who seems to be more interested in the city's redevelopment rather than the last three or four who were complete disasters. Founder of Quicken Loans and chairman Dan Gilbert also pulls a lot a weight in that town and is investing heavily with the help of city leaders. Same with Matt Cullen, CEO of Rock Ventures. They have all formed kind of a team dedicated to investing in the city's core.
Back to Healthy Town, these could be some of the ideas Rummell wants to implement. I know Ennis likes to laugh about the idea that stairs being in a prominent position encourages their use, but there's a whole lot more to it. And even with stairs, I think it does make sense that connecting with them visually upon entering a space makes them more inviting in the right context.
http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/architecture-urban-design-healthy-choices-exercise
Quote from: vicupstate on June 08, 2015, 05:15:32 PM
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on June 08, 2015, 04:09:56 PM
Went to Sweet Pete's on Sunday and could not believe the amount of people walking around the block on a Sunday. It goes to show what 1 place can do. There were even families and little kids in Hemming Plaza. I have never seen this in my 5 years in Jax. You can see how important connectivity is to DT and how close the Laura St Trio is to all this action. It is a shame the city can't see it.
I was in JAX in April for the first time in about 18 months and Sweet Pete's was easily the most impressive and promising change I had witnessed since my last visit. It is indeed destinations like S.P. that will potentially turn the tide DT. Glad to see them expanding.
+1
Quote from: CCMjax on June 08, 2015, 06:40:17 PM
I lived in Greenville for 2 years before moving down here a couple years ago. In my opinion, Greenville's downtown is what makes it a great town. No matter how old you were or if you had kids or if you were in high school, everyone went downtown to do something. It was great. You'd be walking around at 9 pm on a Monday night and there would be people of all ages just out and about downtown. But it wasn't always like that, which is what is encouraging for places like Jacksonville. I spoke with many people who grew up there and Greenville went from a dead downtown that nobody went to, to one of the most vibrant urban cores in the country let alone southeast. There was a busy highway that went right over what is now Falls Park downtown (one of the most beautiful parks in the country), they tore that down (much like Jax needs to tear down the elevated highway on Bay Street), and now it is one of the best attractions of downtown.
Also, if you are a pessimist about downtown Jax revitalization, just do a little research on what's going on in Detroit. Massive redevelopment of downtown and the Midtown neighborhood. Things are progressing unbelievably there, with new restaurants and infill projects. They are restoring historic buildings rather than tearing them down and even though Detroit has a long way to go, it is making great progress. Honestly, coming from a Michigan native who has seen a lot of Detroit in my lifetime, if Detroit can do it, Jax can do it. The people need to have passion for their city and believe it can happen. I would also say, if Greenville can do it, Jax can do it.
What do Detroit and Greenville have in common? Great leadership. People with vision and knowledge of how to actually get stuff done.
+100. Leadership is indeed the missing element in JAX in regards to DT. That plus a good understanding by those leaders as to what does and does not create a quality urban environment. It has NOTHING to do with consolidation or anything else. It is simply leadership.
Quote from: UNFurbanist on June 08, 2015, 11:17:29 AM
How would you guys rank the importance of proposed projects for downtown in terms of city funding? This would be mine personally.
1. Laura Street Trio
2. Shipyards
3. Landing
4. Healthy Town (just because they seem to have their funding in order)
My choices:
1. Laura Trio
2. Laura Trio
3. Laura Trio
4. Laura Trio
It is four buildings we are talking about and the urgency of each one is more important than any of the other three options. JAX frankly needs to drop the Shipyards idea altogether. It is simply not ready for it. It will only dilute the energy and money needed for the others.
I read the article on Healthy Town and given the experience I have with Pete Rummell and his projects I'd say that this could be something different for Jacksonville. He's serious. It will have outside designers and specialists from all over the country. At WindMark we had interior designers doing the buildings from New York, Miami, Colorado and other city centers. They even brought in Miraval. WindMark was in the boonies..............literally. But this one is in the city with city services.
Without doing detailed research and cost benefit analysis, my spidey sense tells me these are the most important and realistic projects
1. Laura Street Trio-with right tenant mix
2. Healthy Town-Much more integrated into a vibrant area than Shipyards, with proximity to Skyway and 95. Development team has demonstrated past success.
3. Hogan's Creek Greenway-relatively affordable mid rise redevelopment in the State/Union Corridor and renovations in Springfield/Eastside around this area are more feasible with a stronger demand than luxury riverfront residential at the Shipyards right now imo. Creating a great public park is also one of the biggest things DT is lacking.
4. The Landing-if designed and developed properly
5. Shipyards-Probably the highest ceiling project, but I have little faith in Khan pulling it off. He should focus on not running two sports franchises into the ground before he takes on a massive development project.
Not sure if anyone here has been to Baldwin Park in Orlando, but it reminds me a lot of the drawings I've seen for "healthy town". It's like a cross between Rummell's idea and the East San Marco Publix project. There are many midrises (unfortunately the street view below doesn't show the newer ones) with retail on the ground and residences above. There are several community gyms/pools/community centers available to all residents of the immediate surrounding areas for free.
One of the great things about Baldwin Park's downtown that Jacksonville should take note of is the parking system. There is plenty of parking, but it is hidden within each block. When you drive through the area it's similar to riverside with shops, restaurants and offices lining the sidewalks and cars parked along the curbs. Since you can't see vast empty parking lots everywhere it feels very urban and vibrant. If you can't find a spot on the street there's no worry as the Lynx (Orlando's BRT) runs very close by or you simply drive into one of the central lots contained within one of the blocks.
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.567681,-81.326912,3a,75y,44.42h,77.03t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s9NLpTwEzDkX8u3O-8kcSPg!2e0!6m1!1e1
(http://i.imgur.com/dJqsybU.jpg)
Quote from: CityLife on June 09, 2015, 10:26:39 AM
Without doing detailed research and cost benefit analysis, my spidey sense tells me these are the most important and realistic projects
1. Laura Street Trio-with right tenant mix
2. Healthy Town-Much more integrated into a vibrant area than Shipyards, with proximity to Skyway and 95. Development team has demonstrated past success.
3. Hogan's Creek Greenway-relatively affordable mid rise redevelopment in the State/Union Corridor and renovations in Springfield/Eastside around this area are more feasible with a stronger demand than luxury riverfront residential at the Shipyards right now imo. Creating a great public park is also one of the biggest things DT is lacking.
4. The Landing-if designed and developed properly
5. Shipyards-Probably the highest ceiling project, but I have little faith in Khan pulling it off. He should focus on not running two sports franchises into the ground before he takes on a massive development project.
That's a good list. I'd do pretty much the same, but flip the Landing and Shipyards:
1. Laura Street Trio: I consider this the single most important opportunity in urban Jacksonville right now, and it's not going to happen without help from the city.
2. Healthy Town: This one is the most realistic, the furthest along, and will need the least incentives. Let's grab some low-hanging fruit for once.
3. Hogan's Creek Greenway: This isn't really the same type of development, but I'd rather devote our resources and time to this than either of the other two projects.
4. Khan's Shipyards: This could be big, but we need to make sure the deal is good for the city as well. We simply can't be in the business of paying people to take city property without knowing what the return will be.
5. The Landing: I don't think this should be in the running until we have some much stronger plans to look at. Fortunately, it's almost certainly going to look a LOT different now with the changeover in City Hall.
@Jaxjaguar, Baldwin Park gets referenced a lot here. It's a good example of a traditional neighborhood development design. I think its pretty much a given that Healthy Town will hide parking behind structures, with the possibility of some on street parking.
Unfortunately, I kinda doubt that Lenny is going to put money towards almost any of these projects anyways. He's "fiscally conservative" remember? His constituents in the burbs don't want their money being spent downtown. All that money will go towards the port or something else we think we need but really don't. Hope I'm wrong but thats the way I see things shaking out. At very least "Healthy Town" will probably happen and with enough federal grants and such I'm sure the emerald necklace will at least be much nicer than it is now in a few years.
Well, there's definitely going to have to be a lot of tightening to see the budget get back in order. There's not going to be a lot of money to spread around - not that there's any right now, either. That's why low hanging fruit like Healthy Town, that won't need nearly so much assistance as, say, Toney Sleiman's proposal of $12 million for the Landing, are so important.
So few people actually live downtown, the downtown voting block has no power. I have read and re-read "Lenny Curry's Vision...." featured on this website and it lacks any specifics about creating the "vibrant downtown" he says he sees when he thinks of Jacksonville. One thing we will get is more cops, though. That won't really do anything for the urban core.
The large population centers near downtown, San Marco, Riverside, and Springfield, don't go downtown on a regular enough basis to make it vibrant. (Why would they? Very little shopping, no movie theater, no grocery store except WD, .........)
They go to San Marco Square, Five Points, Publix in Riverside, Shoppes of Avondale. I'm under the impression that the folks who live in Springfield go to those same smaller shopping/dining districts as well.
Downtown Jax is like the ultimate dysfunctional family, all the parts are there but no communication or connection between them.
Well forget everything we talked about. Now that the trio is foreclosed on I guess healthy town is the only "real" thing we've got.
Quote from: UNFurbanist on June 09, 2015, 10:17:30 PM
Well forget everything we talked about. Now that the trio is foreclosed on I guess healthy town is the only "real" thing we've got.
The Trio buildings have not been foreclosed on....the Barnett is a separate project
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 09, 2015, 10:20:07 PM
Quote from: UNFurbanist on June 09, 2015, 10:17:30 PM
Well forget everything we talked about. Now that the trio is foreclosed on I guess healthy town is the only "real" thing we've got.
The Trio buildings have not been foreclosed on....the Barnett is a separate project
A separate project by the same guys and tied to all the others.
Quote from: Tacachale on June 09, 2015, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 09, 2015, 10:20:07 PM
Quote from: UNFurbanist on June 09, 2015, 10:17:30 PM
Well forget everything we talked about. Now that the trio is foreclosed on I guess healthy town is the only "real" thing we've got.
The Trio buildings have not been foreclosed on....the Barnett is a separate project
A separate project by the same guys and tied to all the others.
yes and no....the financing of the two projects have been somewhat separate as have the development plans
Quote from: MusicMan on June 09, 2015, 01:22:53 PM
So few people actually live downtown, the downtown voting block has no power. I have read and re-read "Lenny Curry's Vision...." featured on this website and it lacks any specifics about creating the "vibrant downtown" he says he sees when he thinks of Jacksonville. One thing we will get is more cops, though. That won't really do anything for the urban core.
The large population centers near downtown, San Marco, Riverside, and Springfield, don't go downtown on a regular enough basis to make it vibrant. (Why would they? Very little shopping, no movie theater, no grocery store except WD, .........)
They go to San Marco Square, Five Points, Publix in Riverside, Shoppes of Avondale. I'm under the impression that the folks who live in Springfield go to those same smaller shopping/dining districts as well.
Downtown Jax is like the ultimate dysfunctional family, all the parts are there but no communication or connection between them.
Very true. My wife and I only go downtown to get to Springfield. We got sick of going down there to eat and everything is closed on hours they should be open. We did really enjoy the Candy Apple. Gave me some hope, but it takes more than 1.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 10, 2015, 09:45:48 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on June 09, 2015, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 09, 2015, 10:20:07 PM
Quote from: UNFurbanist on June 09, 2015, 10:17:30 PM
Well forget everything we talked about. Now that the trio is foreclosed on I guess healthy town is the only "real" thing we've got.
The Trio buildings have not been foreclosed on....the Barnett is a separate project
A separate project by the same guys and tied to all the others.
yes and no....the financing of the two projects have been somewhat separate as have the development plans
I thought the proposed garage was supposed to serve both?
^ that is correct
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on June 10, 2015, 10:47:10 AM
Very true. My wife and I only go downtown to get to Springfield. We got sick of going down there to eat and everything is closed on hours they should be open. We did really enjoy the Candy Apple. Gave me some hope, but it takes more than 1.
It isn't just one place. Let me suggest you try Olio (open on weekend nights), Azucena, Super Food & Brew, and of course Casa Dora and LaCena (both have been open at night for years)....plus the restaurants in the hotels and at the Landing (Fionn MacCools is very good).
I didn't know Olio was open on weekend nights!
neither did I. Great news if true.