Metro Jacksonville

Living in Jacksonville => Sports => Topic started by: mtraininjax on May 13, 2015, 08:48:42 PM

Title: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: mtraininjax on May 13, 2015, 08:48:42 PM
QuoteDue to escalating costs of hosting college football's national championship game and wanting to take advantage of an improved downtown riverfront when the Shipyards development is complete, Jacksonville has decided not to bid for the 2018-20 College Football Playoff but intends to pursue future title games.

http://jacksonville.com/sports/college/2015-05-13/story/jacksonville-temporarily-pulling-out-bidding-college-footballs (http://jacksonville.com/sports/college/2015-05-13/story/jacksonville-temporarily-pulling-out-bidding-college-footballs)

More good news for downtown, Ugh!
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: Tacachale on May 13, 2015, 09:04:34 PM
SIGH.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: InnerCityPressure on May 13, 2015, 11:32:00 PM
We gotta ride the wave of the $60 million scoreboards.  They're gonna be old news and outdone by the next time bidding comes around :/
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: vicupstate on May 14, 2015, 04:58:10 AM
Quotepicking up the tab for team expenses and needing 300,000 square feet of convention space for the game's Fan Fest remained a big hurdle.

The real reason.

They had to know going in that nothing too significant is going to be ready at the Shipyards by 2018.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: I-10east on May 14, 2015, 09:14:05 AM
It's not the end of the world. I'm okay with putting this bid off. After all, we want to be squared away (esp with the Shipyards) when something of this caliber comes to town. We'll still have plenty of other sporting events at Everbank Field in the future.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: RattlerGator on May 14, 2015, 09:17:02 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 14, 2015, 04:58:10 AM
Quotepicking up the tab for team expenses and needing 300,000 square feet of convention space for the game's Fan Fest remained a big hurdle.

The real reason.

They had to know going in that nothing too significant is going to be ready at the Shipyards by 2018.
Agreed. But this does give us a baseline for what will be needed, and what we can expect to be included, in the early stages of The Shipyards construction. If the initial work doesn't address this kind of convention space, we're off to a very bad start.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: PeeJayEss on May 14, 2015, 10:18:03 AM
Don't most cities lose a bunch of money on these things?
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: Dapperdan on May 14, 2015, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: PeeJayEss on May 14, 2015, 10:18:03 AM
Don't most cities lose a bunch of money on these things?
Most likely. National Hotels, temp vendors, and such seem to make all the money. The city has to foot a massive security bill and host numerous parties and such. I am for this as well.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: pierre on May 14, 2015, 02:00:04 PM
Is anybody surprised? It was a long shot.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: thelakelander on May 14, 2015, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: RattlerGator on May 14, 2015, 09:17:02 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 14, 2015, 04:58:10 AM
Quotepicking up the tab for team expenses and needing 300,000 square feet of convention space for the game's Fan Fest remained a big hurdle.

The real reason.

They had to know going in that nothing too significant is going to be ready at the Shipyards by 2018.
Agreed. But this does give us a baseline for what will be needed, and what we can expect to be included, in the early stages of The Shipyards construction. If the initial work doesn't address this kind of convention space, we're off to a very bad start.

We still don't have a plan for convention space. I doubt a 300,000 square foot convention center will fit efficiently on the shipyards site. Besides, that's not a part of Khan's plan anyway.

Not bidding is no loss on our part. We didn't stand a snow ball's chance in hell of winning anyway. They made the right decision in not wasting time and resources now and hoping our DT environment would improve by the time another opportunity presents itself.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: Coolyfett on May 14, 2015, 09:42:07 PM
Lol not surprised...
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on May 14, 2015, 09:45:44 PM
They made the right decision.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: I-10east on May 14, 2015, 09:52:22 PM
Quote from: Coolyfett on May 14, 2015, 09:42:07 PM
Lol not surprised...

Yeah 'LOL' is the first thing that comes to my mind....
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on May 14, 2015, 10:14:42 PM
Did Mark Long phone this one in to the TU?

I guess I'm out of the loop, because I wasn't aware that we have been seriously bidding on it to begin with.  What's there to pull out of?
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: mtraininjax on May 15, 2015, 08:27:25 AM
QuoteWe didn't stand a snow ball's chance in hell of winning anyway.

That's the winning spirit we love to see and hear about our great city!
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: RattlerGator on May 15, 2015, 08:51:13 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 14, 2015, 02:18:28 PM
We still don't have a plan for convention space. I doubt a 300,000 square foot convention center will fit efficiently on the shipyards site. Besides, that's not a part of Khan's plan anyway.
Well. . . .

I'm not so sure, Ennis. I know there is a large pie-in-the-sky element to my wish here but the greatest gift Shad Khan brings to our discussions about downtown is flexibility. In a college sports context, people often talk about the Big Money Donors (Bull Gators, etc.). With Jax, Shad is the ultimate Big Money Donor and he might be able to be that money guy that can pull a project together that extends beyond what was conceptually contemplated in the presentation. Yes, I do believe that.

Although this linked article included a headline that seemingly slights Shad:

http://folioweekly.com/Are-We-Robbing-Our-Hoteliers-to-Pay-Shad-Khan,8286

the substance of the editorial doesn't. In discussing the best use of Jax's bed tax dollars, it does include an interesting discussion that is relevant to pulling out of the current bidding for the college football national championship. Bruce A. Fouraker wrote, after lamenting the very limited flexibility of our convention spaces:

The best option available is to build a convention center with about 250,000 square feet of exhibition space and 700,000 square feet of total space, as explained by Paul Astleford, CEO of Visit Jacksonville.

* * *

The site at the Shipyards would have a convention center built from scratch. The portion of the Shipyards property that could hold a center this size is on the east side of Hogan's Creek. The total cost for the exhibition space is $27.132 million; for the meeting space, the total is $50.017 million. After allowing for site preparation, the total is $92.747 million. This leaves $68 million for Skyway extensions to the Hyatt and the new convention center.


We'll see how it plays out. We've given Shad the ball; there's no way he and his team have not thought about this and, in fact, they may have been central players in the decision to pull out of the bidding. As some have said, it was an obvious decision but . . . we had rather publicly previously said we *were* bidding for the game.

I think Shad has looked at what has been done in Indianapolis and is saying we can do better, or at least as well, in Jacksonville. I think he wants that college football national championship game, and I think he sees how to build a district that will at least allow us to legitimately be part of the discussion.

It's a new day in Jax. That's a good thing.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: thelakelander on May 15, 2015, 09:47:31 AM
LOL, that 2013 Folio opinion piece by Bruce Fouraker has to many factual errors in it to use as a source. He's posted similiar opinions on the Skyway here in the past that were shot down pretty quickly from a technical standpoint. Plus Khan's plan released earlier this year doesn't have any of the things Fouraker dreamed about two years ago.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: Dapperdan on May 15, 2015, 10:11:52 AM
Can the field that Khan is planning to build be a possible  convention center? I noticed it had windows that could close to make it an all indoor venue.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: Tacachale on May 15, 2015, 10:23:38 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 15, 2015, 09:47:31 AM
LOL, that 2013 Folio opinion piece by Bruce Fouraker has to many factual errors in it to use as a source. He's posted similiar opinions on the Skyway here in the past that were shot down pretty quickly from a technical standpoint. Plus Khan's plan released earlier this year doesn't have any of the things Fouraker dreamed about two years ago.

Fouraker needs to stick to his day job.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: pierre on May 15, 2015, 10:35:17 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 15, 2015, 08:27:25 AM
QuoteWe didn't stand a snow ball's chance in hell of winning anyway.

That's the winning spirit we love to see and hear about our great city!

Like it or not, it is reality.

Under Rick Catlett's watch, the Gator Bowl has gone from one of the top "second tier" bowl games on a broadcast network to one on ESPN2 now regularly featuring 6-6 teams. The city has been shut out of the Bowl Alliance, the BCS and now the College Football Playoff.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: fsquid on May 15, 2015, 10:41:16 AM
Quote from: pierre on May 15, 2015, 10:35:17 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 15, 2015, 08:27:25 AM
QuoteWe didn't stand a snow ball's chance in hell of winning anyway.

That's the winning spirit we love to see and hear about our great city!

Like it or not, it is reality.

Under Rick Catlett's watch, the Gator Bowl has gone from one of the top "second tier" bowl games on a broadcast network to one on ESPN2 now regularly featuring 6-6 teams. The city has been shut out of the Bowl Alliance, the BCS and now the College Football Playoff.

not much the Gator Bowl could have done about that though.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: thelakelander on May 15, 2015, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on May 15, 2015, 10:11:52 AM
Can the field that Khan is planning to build be a possible  convention center? I noticed it had windows that could close to make it an all indoor venue.
A convention center would eat up most of the shipyard's property. I'm caught up with some other things at the moment but when I get some time, I'll overlay a 200k exhibition hall over Khan's plan to visually demonstrate how much space something like that would eat up.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: thelakelander on May 15, 2015, 10:45:09 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 15, 2015, 08:27:25 AM
QuoteWe didn't stand a snow ball's chance in hell of winning anyway.

That's the winning spirit we love to see and hear about our great city!
I like to live in the world of reality. Unless we're are overly sensitive, sometimes the truth can hurt.  There are things we are perfectly suited for and others that we aren't. This just happens to be something (at the present time) that we aren't.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: mtraininjax on May 16, 2015, 05:25:51 AM
QuoteI like to live in the world of reality.

An online chat room is reality.....guess again.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: thelakelander on May 16, 2015, 07:43:08 AM
Well it is the 21st century. If you're actually typing and reading, then you're engaged in a real chat or online conversation.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: RattlerGator on May 16, 2015, 12:20:07 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 15, 2015, 10:41:35 AM
A convention center would eat up most of the shipyard's property. I'm caught up with some other things at the moment but when I get some time, I'll overlay a 200k exhibition hall over Khan's plan to visually demonstrate how much space something like that would eat up.
[/quote]I like this idea, Ennis. It would be tremendously useful to give me some idea of just how impractical it might (or might not) be. If I may make a request -- it would also be incredibly helpful if you could have a second overlay of an exhibition hall sized at about 100k.

Beggars can't be choosy, I know, so I thank you in advance for at least considering the idea.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: RattlerGator on May 16, 2015, 12:37:08 PM
I'll also add this: the big parking lots immediately adjacent to the stadium may be something of a waste of space, right? Couldn't convention center space be gained by strategic placement of a combination parking structure / exhibition hall adjacent to The Shipyards property ???
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on May 16, 2015, 02:57:14 PM
That would be nice, but who's paying for it? I seriously doubt we see a new convention center in Jax anytime soon with in the next 20 years, unless some one like Khan builds one or the city wins the lottery.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: thelakelander on May 16, 2015, 05:11:27 PM
Don't expect Khan to save the day for Jacksonville by building stuff with his own money that doesn't make financial sense. He didn't end up being a billionaire by being a sugar daddy. If COJ wants a convention center, it will have to foot most of the bill for it.
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: RattlerGator on May 16, 2015, 08:32:36 PM
I definitely agree Shad isn't going to do the convention center thing without massive funding support from the City.

But . . . how is the City *not* going to do a new convention center? It almost has to be done, doesn't it? Or else, everyone is just whistling Dixie about so much of this push forward for a District downtown that takes us to the next level.

At a minimum, we at least must have an average or slightly above-average convention center down there in the vicinity of The Shipyards, not over by the 95/10 junction.

Right?
Title: Re: Jacksonville temporarily pulling out of bidding for college football's national
Post by: tufsu1 on May 16, 2015, 10:19:10 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 15, 2015, 08:27:25 AM
QuoteWe didn't stand a snow ball's chance in hell of winning anyway.

That's the winning spirit we love to see and hear about our great city!

something that isn't mentioned is the unlikelihood of a Florida city getting a title game before 2020 given that Tampa hosts in 2017.  Also, stadium upgrades in Miami put them in the lead.

All that said, it is time to send Rick Catlett out to pasture.  The guy has been pretty much a disaster for the last 5+ years...he all but promised Jax. would host the title game sometime in its first 5 years...and his statement was made years before Khan's Shipyards plans were unveiled!