A Look Inside 220 Riverside
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4025107363_wnqf5St-L.jpg)
MAA takes Metro Jacksonville on a tour of 220 Riverside. Will this be the urban residential project that stimulates the market for more housing in downtown?
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-may-a-look-inside-220-riverside
Looks pretty nice
Looks great. That is going to be a pretty amazing place for young professionals. Especially single ones.
MAA told us that 220 Riverside is drawing just as much interest from families as it is from young professionals. That was pretty good to hear, since it seems that many believe families have no interest in urban living in Jacksonville. The love of urbanism doesn't turn off just because people have kids!
^^^It does depending on how urban your city is. lol
I would imagine this is a safe area with basically the same school district as Riverside? I see no change in "urbanity" living here and walking to Fresh Market or living in a condo on the Ortega River and walking to Publix (or a condo on the St Johns right along San jose right near that Publix). Riverside is still more urban to me, but still super family friendly and affordable and safe. Just my take.
Lol, I just visited friends last month who moved their 11 and 8 year old kids from Jax to Harlem because they felt Jax didn't offer their children enough culture. For the US, that's about as urban as it is going to get, compared to life in Jax. The 11-year-old kid already knows the subway lines better than his mom.
"Urbanity" in Jax is all relative because all of it's still pretty low density. However, there aren't many places in Jax where a certain amount of people can rent a space above 20,000-square-feet of retail/dining and a park, walk to work (assuming you work at Fidelity, BCBS, TU, Haskell, etc.), and be within a block of a full service grocery store, 50,000 additional square feet of retail/dining and the Northbank Riverwalk. As more growth happens, that little node of mixed use activity stand out more in a sprawling city like Jax. Having DT and Riverside/Avondale within short biking/driving distance and direct access to I-10/I-95 are additional positives.
Like the mom who beat her rioting kid in Baltimore, yeah Jax's little slice of urbanity isn't as good as most peer communities, but it's still our little developing node. Might as well enjoy it.
Looks nice. If only I were young, single, without children and not in a morgage already, it would be a great place to live....
If you worked at one of those businesses there it would be an awesome place to live.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 01, 2015, 11:44:22 AM
Lol, I just visited friends last month who moved their 11 and 8 year old kids from Jax to Harlem because they felt Jax didn't offer their children enough culture. For the US, that's about as urban as it is going to get, compared to life in Jax. The 11-year-old kid already knows the subway lines better than his mom.
"Urbanity" in Jax is all relative because all of it's still pretty low density. However, there aren't many places in Jax where a certain amount of people can rent a space above 20,000-square-feet of retail/dining and a park, walk to work (assuming you work at Fidelity, BCBS, TU, Haskell, etc.), and be within a block of a full service grocery store, 50,000 additional square feet of retail/dining and the Northbank Riverwalk. As more growth happens, that little node of mixed use activity stand out more in a sprawling city like Jax. Having DT and Riverside/Avondale within short biking/driving distance and direct access to I-10/I-95 are additional positives.
Like the mom who beat her rioting kid in Baltimore, yeah Jax's little slice of urbanity isn't as good as most peer communities, but it's still our little developing node. Might as well enjoy it.
But I mean that's just exposure. My point is there isn't necessarily more exposure at this Brooklyn site despite it being closer to downtown. I would guess kids are most exposed in Riverside around 5 Points, or Springfield, still (relatively speaking).
But I can personally really understand why *most* families don't prefer super urban living, aside from an extreme cost standpoint. It's nice having kids that are just kids for as long as possible, and from my experience knowing kids who grew up in Manhattan or in the city of SF or other extreme urban environments, they were pretty much grown by 8-10. I cherish my time as an innocent person not knowing how fucked up the world is. I would have had a short bout of innocence growing up in Harlem, but I guaranty you that kids who "grow up" in a place like 220 Riverside will be just like kids who grow up in Avondale or San Marco or basically anywhere in Jax. And that is a huge part of the appeal of a place like Jacksonville, or much of the Sunbelt/suburbia.
Quote from: acme54321 on May 01, 2015, 12:36:25 PM
If you worked at one of those businesses there it would be an awesome place to live.
Ugh, working where you sleep. Not for me. A little bit of a commute, even if it's a 30 minute walk, is what I need. But that's just me...
Great to see this place doing well and those pictures look amazing. Now that we know there is demand to live in that area along with some viable retail options and new green space, I was wondering what is the possibility of a developer buying out the Florida Times-Union property and opening that riverfront land for development? Plenty of precedent for doing that with newspapers like the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Boston Herald, Tampa Tribune and others selling off their old places and downsizing. We keep stressing the importance of urban development having connectivity and that piece of land could be that connective link that finally unites Riverside to Brooklyn to the urban core.
Lol, I'm black and grew up in the hood and attended public schools my entire life. There was no period of innocence! Train early to give your kids a chance to advance in life in the event they aren't starting off with a silver spoon in their mouth. I've even pondered myself at times if the schools my boys attend are diverse and reflective of real life to my liking.
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on May 01, 2015, 01:24:58 PM
Great to see this place doing well and those pictures look amazing. Now that we know there is demand to live in that area along with some viable retail options and new green space, I was wondering what is the possibility of a developer buying out the Florida Times-Union property and opening that riverfront land for development? Plenty of precedent for doing that with newspapers like the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Boston Herald, Tampa Tribune and others selling off their old places and downsizing. We keep stressing the importance of urban development having connectivity and that piece of land could be that connective link that finally unites Riverside to Brooklyn to the urban core.
Probably zero. There's still a lot of empty space in Brooklyn and DT. That TU building will be there awhile.
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on May 01, 2015, 01:24:58 PM
Great to see this place doing well and those pictures look amazing. Now that we know there is demand to live in that area along with some viable retail options and new green space, I was wondering what is the possibility of a developer buying out the Florida Times-Union property and opening that riverfront land for development? Plenty of precedent for doing that with newspapers like the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Boston Herald, Tampa Tribune and others selling off their old places and downsizing. We keep stressing the importance of urban development having connectivity and that piece of land could be that connective link that finally unites Riverside to Brooklyn to the urban core.
Considering there are three other riverfront sites that are empty, all of which dont have to worry about knocking down an industrial building (remember the TU has a print shop on site)... I'd say none.
Quote from: simms3 on May 01, 2015, 01:06:38 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on May 01, 2015, 12:36:25 PM
If you worked at one of those businesses there it would be an awesome place to live.
Ugh, working where you sleep. Not for me. A little bit of a commute, even if it's a 30 minute walk, is what I need. But that's just me...
My most productive work days are when I work from my home office. You can't beat rolling out of your bed and going into the next room. No commute immediately saves an hour each day, money spent out of lunch and I get more work done without my coworkers around.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 01, 2015, 01:49:38 PM
Quote from: simms3 on May 01, 2015, 01:06:38 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on May 01, 2015, 12:36:25 PM
If you worked at one of those businesses there it would be an awesome place to live.
Ugh, working where you sleep. Not for me. A little bit of a commute, even if it's a 30 minute walk, is what I need. But that's just me...
My most productive work days are when I work from my home office. You can't beat rolling out of your bed and going into the next room. No commute immediately saves an hour each day, money spent out of lunch and I get more work done without my coworkers around.
I get more work done when I travel and my hotel is right by the office. About the only time my CPU is on by 8 in my working life.
I am not productive at home and I don't enjoy eating where I shit, so to speak, but to each his own. It's a mental refresher for me to leave the financial district and "go home" to an entirely different world/neighborhood, and my commutes, as hectic as they are and often I'm on email are often the only times I have to do nothing, listen to the music playing in my head phones, and let my mind wander.
I also believe in a difference between exposing your kids to "diversity" and exposing your kids to the nutso-ness that goes on all around in a big, urban city like NYC or SF, arguably the two craziest, most "adult" cities in this country outside of Vegas and South Beach. Our country's suburbs are often more diverse than the yuppified cities we are forming once again.
I'm not saying what I would do if I were a parent. I live in a city where it seems most people just want to have permiscuous sex and work their whole entire life...which is a city a very small few choose to raise kids in...so parenting isn't on my mind. But I can tell you, knowing this place, knowing me in this place, I would be *very* selective where I raised kids in SF (or NYC) and I better have millions in the bank account to do so.
Boston or Chicago may be a different story, however. Both cities seem quite tame in comparison. Or Atlanta. Atlanta's suburbs have gotten super diverse whereas its urban core has gotten super white/yuppie as it's gentrified. But that seems to be a theme with most places. NYC and SF are definitely the two most "urban" cities and are definitely a little too crazy (and expensive) for most people's taste, it seems.
Remember, too, that the Bay Area is more than just the Peninsula. There are plenty of options that are are essentially urban that are suitable for families. A couple months ago we visited friends in Redwood City. They're a couple in their early 30s with two young kids, and they live in decent two-bedroom apartment just on the edge of Redwood's downtown area. It's not as big or nice as 220 and it's 3 times as expensive, but it works for them. For the most part they can enjoy a lifestyle you can only get in the densest, most urban and/or expensive neighborhoods in other cities, plus access much of what San Francisco has to offer. That said, they're hoping to ultimately move to Jacksonville, where they could live in a similar area for a fraction of the cost and headache, and get to take advantage of it more.
^^^That's considered suburban around here, not urban, though I understand it's all perspective (would be very urban for Jax, even though it's in the burbs). They are on a Caltrain line there (with a "baby bullet" stop), which puts them within 20-30 minutes of the city, which is of course a whole different ballgame (much like Manhattan is a whole different ballgame than Elizabeth NJ or New Rochelle NY...same idea).
Oh, and Redwood City is Peninsula. Of course there is the East Bay, Marin/North Bay, and South Bay/San Jose. 8 million people and only <1 million living in the city. Yes. But we're talking "urban" and whether it's great for families, etc. Redwood City is a safe suburb with good schools, a nice little downtown, transit access to SF, Oakland, and SJ, and convenience to the huge job market that is the Peninsula/Valley. It'd be akin to the Southside for Jax. Yes, it's way more urban than anywhere in Jacksonville and it's a suburb. That speaks to my point about 220 Riverside being family friendly - it's urban for Jax, which is easy, luxurious, cheap, and still sheltered as can be in what is still a super low dense, mostly suburban environment. And 220 Riverside has great amenities (something that is rare anywhere in the Bay Area).
I'd personally prefer owning and paying a mortgage than rent, but I could see where 220 Riverside could be an excellent option for young families in transition - it's near mom/dad's work (potentially), is safe and secure, nice, probably super cheap for transplants coming from other cities, etc.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 01, 2015, 01:27:05 PM
Lol, I'm black and grew up in the hood and attended public schools my entire life. There was no period of innocence! Train early to give your kids a chance to advance in life in the event they aren't starting off with a silver spoon in their mouth. I've even pondered myself at times if the schools my boys attend are diverse and reflective of real life to my liking.
Yeah me too. I remember seeing hundreds of Thai schoolchildren (like 10 year olds) all out on their own on weeknights in Bangkok. I'm sure bad stuff happens to some of them, but by and large they all grow up to be independent rather quickly. Hope my kid(s) will do the same.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 01, 2015, 01:49:38 PM
My most productive work days are when I work from my home office. You can't beat rolling out of your bed and going into the next room. No commute immediately saves an hour each day, money spent out of lunch and I get more work done without my coworkers around.
Not if you have to fix that kid's screw ups cause you weren't around to catch em at first. Is he still in his probationary period?
Are some units here furnished?
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on May 01, 2015, 01:24:58 PM
Great to see this place doing well and those pictures look amazing. Now that we know there is demand to live in that area along with some viable retail options and new green space, I was wondering what is the possibility of a developer buying out the Florida Times-Union property and opening that riverfront land for development? Plenty of precedent for doing that with newspapers like the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Boston Herald, Tampa Tribune and others selling off their old places and downsizing. We keep stressing the importance of urban development having connectivity and that piece of land could be that connective link that finally unites Riverside to Brooklyn to the urban core.
I agree 100% with what you are saying. It is a real dead zone now, but if done right could be a vital piece of connectivity. I bet the T-U needs a fraction of the space they current have now. If DT JAX ever does get really rocking, I could definitely see them move/downsize for a big payday on that site. That may be awhile yet, just as Fieldafm says.
Where I live, Greenville SC, the newspaper is downsizing from their nearly four acre site in the heart of DT. They are selling to Trammel Crow which will build the largest construction project in the city's history. The newspaper will occupy one of the office buildings in the new mixed use project. Like the T-U offices, the site is a dead zone now, but will be the crown jewel of DT when completed. It will include retail, a hotel, offices, apartments, condominiums, a large public plaza, a dine-in movie theater complex, a fitness center and underground parking.
Oh, if only DT Jax were more like Greenville.
If I worked in Brooklyn, I would love to live here. It would be really nice if the Skyway extension happened. I could take it to work if I needed to then from this area. Still hard to beat walking to work in DT though.
Per article on Jax Biz Journal, those involved with Candy Apple will be opening a restaurant at 220. The concept will be different than Candy Apple and announced in the near future.
Good news for 200 Riverside? In the T-U today:
Quote
NAI Hallmark Partners paid $2.1 million for two parcels totaling 1.7 acres next to its 220 Riverside development.
Quote from: Steve on November 01, 2015, 02:08:03 PM
Good news for 200 Riverside? In the T-U today:
Quote
NAI Hallmark Partners paid $2.1 million for two parcels totaling 1.7 acres next to its 220 Riverside development.
What are the parcels? Land in this area is going quick.
Didn't hey already indicate some time ago thry would be building more apartments on this parcel 200 Riverside?
Quote from: Steve on November 01, 2015, 02:08:03 PM
Good news for 200 Riverside? In the T-U today:
Quote
NAI Hallmark Partners paid $2.1 million for two parcels totaling 1.7 acres next to its 220 Riverside development.
I thought they already owned the 200 Riverside parcel. They have been using it for staging for years.
Per story on JBJ, a new wood fire pizza place is opening at 220 also. It is called Brixx and based out of Charlotte. This will be their first venture in Florida. They signed a 10'year lease and expect to open Summer 2016.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on November 02, 2015, 08:36:50 AM
Quote from: Steve on November 01, 2015, 02:08:03 PM
Good news for 200 Riverside? In the T-U today:
Quote
NAI Hallmark Partners paid $2.1 million for two parcels totaling 1.7 acres next to its 220 Riverside development.
I thought they already owned the 200 Riverside parcel. They have been using it for staging for years.
Maybe they just had a land lease on these?
I heard from one of the NAI Hallmark partners yesterday that 220 is fully leased in both the residential and commercial components. That's great news for their phase 2 but also for East San Marco, which should have an easier time with the banks going forward.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on December 09, 2015, 09:17:47 AM
I heard from one of the NAI Hallmark partners yesterday that 220 is fully leased in both the residential and commercial components. That's great news for their phase 2 but also for East San Marco, which should have an easier time with the banks going forward.
Yes! Definitely good news for East San Marco. I sincerely hope that *finally* gets off the ground this year. Between that and the new Daily's, San Marco will be set. Although I do wish they'd extend the Skyway from the King Street Station down to the San Marco center. ;)
Good news for the whole core. I wonder how Brooklyn Riverside is doing?
Quote from: BoldCityRealist on December 09, 2015, 09:58:59 AMAlthough I do wish they'd extend the Skyway from the King Street Station down to the San Marco center. ;)
I think the closest you'd get is somewhere along the north side of Atlantic between the tracks and the Wells Fargo.
I think I speak for many others other than myself when I say "We told you so!" Many of us knew this project would lease out pretty quickly and do well and it is simple . . . there are no other options like it in the core. Jacksonville has a lot of young professionals but a severe lack of modern/updated apartments, or any apartments at all for that matter, in or near the core. Riverside is the closest thing to an exception but still not many options for a core neighborhood. Just go to Zillow and do an apartment search of Jacksonville's core vs Charlotte's core. The vast majority of rentals in Charlotte cluster around downtown in the core. The same search in Jax shows the dots scattered throughout the city with a very low number in the core. San Marco practically has zero and it is a vibrant neighborhood one mile from downtown with a simple commute to both downtown and Southside! Yet there are vacant lots like East San Marco with still no action even now that the economy has picked back up. I don't get it. The last developer trying to get East San Marco off paper didn't get the financing approved. I'm surprised some big shot developer from Atlanta or Miami hasn't stepped in and taken that over. There are loads of young professionals stuck over by the Town Center because there are no other options. Yes I realize a lot of people like the Town Center and those types of communities but there are many many others who are screaming from their suburban style apartment complexes for more options in a cooler neighborhood.
I toured Brooklyn this weekend with my sister who is looking to move from the suburbs, and the agent at Brooklyn said they were over 75% leased.
Quote from: CCMjax on December 09, 2015, 12:54:02 PM
I think I speak for many others other than myself when I say "We told you so!" Many of us knew this project would lease out pretty quickly and do well and it is simple . . . there are no other options like it in the core. Jacksonville has a lot of young professionals but a severe lack of modern/updated apartments, or any apartments at all for that matter, in or near the core. Riverside is the closest thing to an exception but still not many options for a core neighborhood. Just go to Zillow and do an apartment search of Jacksonville's core vs Charlotte's core. The vast majority of rentals in Charlotte cluster around downtown in the core. The same search in Jax shows the dots scattered throughout the city with a very low number in the core. San Marco practically has zero and it is a vibrant neighborhood one mile from downtown with a simple commute to both downtown and Southside! Yet there are vacant lots like East San Marco with still no action even now that the economy has picked back up. I don't get it. The last developer trying to get East San Marco off paper didn't get the financing approved. I'm surprised some big shot developer from Atlanta or Miami hasn't stepped in and taken that over. There are loads of young professionals stuck over by the Town Center because there are no other options. Yes I realize a lot of people like the Town Center and those types of communities but there are many many others who are screaming from their suburban style apartment complexes for more options in a cooler neighborhood.
This - my first two years in Jax I lived in an apartment by the town center because I was not familiar with the area, and it is much easier to rent from an apartment/condo development such as the ones by Town center, and now 220 Riverside and Brooklyn, than it is to find a vacant room in a quadplex in riverside or san marco.
Quote from: CG7 on December 09, 2015, 01:00:58 PM
I toured Brooklyn this weekend with my sister who is looking to move from the suburbs, and the agent at Brooklyn said they were over 75% leased.
I'm in 220 Riverside; They're over 95% leased. I think The Brooklyn has struggled a little bit because the views at 220 are much better, but I actually like the floor plans of Brooklyn a little better. Both are great options.
Quote from: Downtown Objective on December 09, 2015, 03:37:41 PM
I'm in 220 Riverside; They're over 95% leased. I think The Brooklyn has struggled a little bit because the views at 220 are much better, but I actually like the floor plans of Brooklyn a little better. Both are great options.
Awesome. How do you like the amenities? And if you don't mind me asking, where did you move from? What part of town and what type of housing?
The 220 are cheaper than the Unity Plaza ones and I have friends moving from the Strand to 220 Riverside for just that reason.
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 10, 2015, 11:10:42 AM
The 220 are cheaper than the Unity Plaza ones and I have friends moving from the Strand to 220 Riverside for just that reason.
220 is the Unity Plaza ones. Do you mean people moving from the strand to the Brooklyn?
Great news! Can anyone remind me the official open date and when people first started moving in?
I think this will certainly help other projects.
But I do want to offer up, from personal experience, that it doesn't seem like the lease-up of this project (or the Brooklyn, if what I heard above is correct) were as fast or "pent up" as I would have hoped, based on what I have seen happen in other cities such as Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, and certainly San Francisco where 5 projects of 220 Riverside's size could open up in 1 month, all fully pre-leased at rents between $5-8psf.
The rents I have seen in the building are lower than what I would have expected, and a full 30+% lower than countless similar buildings going up in Charlotte or Nashville (I believe Birmingham's newer buildings also post stronger rents).
I'm confident that this is all good for Jax, but remember that lenders and developers also have projects going in other cities. They are able to weigh development risk with construction/land costs against achievable rents and lease-up time in multiple cities. I just hope that Jax scores well (given hopefully 0 development risk and the fact that land and construction costs are incredibly cheap when all of those have skyrocketed elsewhere).
^Simms, I believe units started to come online this summer, but not all units were completed at that time. I might be able to determine the average time from when units became available to when they were leased.
With both of those projects, a small number of units came online as others were still under construction. In any event, it appears the response to their introduction was enough to convince Broadstone's developers to attempt to move forward with their Southbank project.
Perhaps the popularity of the area will result in 200 Riverside (Phase 2) adding to our skyline. I would love to see them build something similar to the height of the Everbank or Florida Blue buildings. Hopefully the former YMCA property is purchased by a developer and becomes a residential additional to the neighborhood.
What is the plan for phase 2 aka 200 Riverside?
Quote from: Captain Zissou on December 10, 2015, 04:34:21 PM
^Simms, I believe units started to come online this summer, but not all units were completed at that time. I might be able to determine the average time from when units became available to when they were leased.
Also, the adjacent retail/amenities arent in place yet. Shoppes on Riverside are maybe 2/3rds operating? None of the restaurants at 220 Riverside are complete. And Unity Plaza had its official opening less than 3 months ago.
That's not quite true. ^ Sbraga & Co. is open in 220 Riverside. There are only four spaces available to lease in Brooklyn Station and one of them is currently a pop up. Corner Bakery, BurgerFi, and Zoe's Kitchen are all open. Burrito Gallery will open in January.
lol I am so out of the loop. Thanks BS, for calling out my BS. ;) Sbraga has been open for a month now! And I called the Shoppes by the old name...clearly just typing off the top of my head. Anyway my point was still valid to some degree. And I was just guessing about the retail spaces...I know of a somewhat significant tenant that was looking there but I guess at this point it would have to be part of a future phase if it did work out.
Quote from: brainstormer on December 15, 2015, 07:39:21 PM
That's not quite true. ^ Sbraga & Co. is open in 220 Riverside. There are only four spaces available to lease in Brooklyn Station and one of them is currently a pop up. Corner Bakery, BurgerFi, and Zoe's Kitchen are all open. Burrito Gallery will open in January.
Is there still space at Brooklyn Station?
So the reported numbers appear to be:
220 Riverside - 92% leased. Brooklyn Riverside - 75% leased.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/12/21/brooklyn-leasing-a-healthy-indicator-for-downtown.html
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on December 21, 2015, 04:25:01 PM
So the reported numbers appear to be:
220 Riverside - 92% leased. Brooklyn Riverside - 75% leased.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/12/21/brooklyn-leasing-a-healthy-indicator-for-downtown.html
Good numbers. Especially since Brooklyn Riverside isn't even 100% complete right? I know it was lagging a little behind 220 in completion. Roll Side! Brooklyn River-Side that is:)
^Yeah, those are great numbers if they keep up. Not all that surprising. We've been seeing for years that downtown apartments stay pretty full. One thing that does surprise me (in a good way) is that they've gotten this full this quickly despite having above-average rents for the area. That's a good sign for future projects.
The Brooklyn Riverside is attractive being so close to both the Landing/DT events and Riverside/5 Points/King St. If you work in Brooklyn or DT, it makes too much sense in comparison to a slightly cheaper new place in Southside.