http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2015-04-29/story/last-minute-opposition-kills-liquor-license-exemption-biscottis-casbah#.VUFaGU4FyVw.twitter
I haven't formulated a solid stance on this yet since I only just heard of this today. But I am a fan of both Ben Davis and the Casbah so I'm fairly split and having a hard time removing my bias.
On one hand, it probably wasn't the most fair thing to exclude two restaurants from a specific legislation. On the other hand, Ben Davis has nothing to do with these businesses save for them buying his product. They aren't even really competitors. Why even split this hair?
As a regular at Casbah, I would love to have liquor, but I don't want to take that stance too hastily, because I respect Ben Davis and his previous steps into local politics. What is everyone's take on it? Maybe it will help me sort out my own thoughts.
It has nothing to do with a brewery being afraid that they will loose sales to liquor companies (like most craft beer breweries, they can't produce enough to keep up with the demand for their product as it is).
The J Bill proposed was a classic case of spot zoning, which is 'zoning speak' for a situation whereas one parcel of land receives a special land use classification that is completely different from other properties in the same area. One person gets an advantage over others. Generally, spot zoning cases deal with the issue of fairness.
For context, in 2010 when Black Sheep was being constructed in Five Points.. their ownership group lobbied for a J Bill that would apply the same alchohol standards that downtown restaurants enjoy to Five Points and portions of North Riverside. Generally, these J Bills are looked at as economic development tools as a way to change zoning over a wide area in order to make that area more economically competitive given other inherent market disadvantages or unique characteristics of their built environment.
SRX alcohol licenses are issued to bona fide restaurants with 150+ seats whose food sales constitute 51% or more of the business' revenue. In dowtown, restaurants only need to have 100+ seats to be eligible for an SRX license. In dense, urban environments... it generally isn't practical or desirable to apply suburban standards to restaurants (otherwise, you'd see a place like the Bostwick Building, Downtown Cigar Lounge and 1904 Music Hall-all small buildings with zero lot lines and no parking on site- get knocked down in order to build a suburban-style Applebees with a huge surface parking lot just to be able to have liquor sales in a restaurant).
The J Bill Black Sheep got approved rolled Five Points and a portion of North Riverside into the downtown overlay in relation to SRX liceneses. This was good not only for Black Sheep, but for all commercial lands whose zoning allows for a restaurant use in these neighborhoods. In other words, it helped raise the economic tide for everyone.
The J Bill proposed for Biscottis and Casbah only applies to their land... and their land only giving them a competitve advantage that no one else in Avondale would also be eligible for.
If you believe that's fair, then you would probably be for the J Bill they proposed. If you don't think that's fair, you would probably be against the Biscottis/Casbah J Bill.
I generally agree that it should be for all commercial character areas in Riverside/Avondale/San Marco, but I think killing this was the wrong approach by Ben Davis. In no way would this prevent anyone else doing the legwork to get a similar J Bill passed, and furthermore, it would set precedent for the area as a whole.
I think while I understand and generally agree with Davis' point that preferential treatment is not good (and would have preferred that this be submitted for a larger area (urban core commercial areas), I think in this case the action of killing this hurt two businesses in Avondale.
QuoteIn no way would this prevent anyone else doing the legwork to get a similar J Bill passed
In fairness, most small business owners don't have the kind of cash to hire lobbyists and land use attorneys to push through their own J Bill. Just providing context.
That is very true....but I don't know that it matters. Assuming the article is true, if Ben Davis wanted to help out the neighborhood then have that same lobbyist lobby that the bill should be amended to include all commercial areas of the neighborhood. Don't kill it.
While I'd like to see those restaurants get their licences, I think Ben is right on this one. There's no reason to pass a bill that benefits only two restaurants while excluding others. All involved should use their influence to craft something that works for everyone.
Well, if you think Biscotti's and Cashbah got burned here, you really ought to ask them why they waged war against Mellow Mushroom over the same issue. Both restaurants (but especially Biscotti's) played a big role in trying to keep Mellow out. Fortunately, they lost.
Having lost their fight -- but not before costing MM thousands of dollars -- it rings quite hollow for Biscotti's and Cashbah to whine about anti-competitive conduct, especially when they were trying, once again, to abuse the political process to for their personal benefit.
Kudos to Ben for having the gnads to stand up to these hypocrites.
If Biscotti's and Cashbah want to support a broader bill that would benefit all businesses in the area, I expect that Mr. Davis will have nothing to say about it. But given their past conduct, I wouldn't hold your breath.
I don't have anything against these businesses personally but I don't have a problem with what Ben Did. If I'm reading this right, my question becomes why in the world are we sponsoring legislation that only benefits two businesses and excludes all others?
"...why in the world are we sponsoring legislation that only benefits two businesses and excludes all others?"
It's called crony capitalism and it hurts consumers by helping certain businesses get a competitive advantage they didn't earn via making their customers happy.
Quote from: Ming The Merciless on April 30, 2015, 11:59:01 AM
Kudos to Ben for having the gnads to stand up to these hypocrites.
I understand he only has one gnad due to an unfortunate accident involving his glycol refrigeration equipment.
I suspect nobody would have opposed Biscottis if they had done what Black Sheep did and changed the law for the whole neighborhood.
It's worth noting that Biscottis was not only one of the most vocal opponents to Mellow Mushroom, but that it also embraced RAP's opposition to the granting of a liquor licence to Mellow on the grounds that that would represent an 'intensification of use' in the neighborhood. Incidentally, I note that RAP and the ridiculous "We Love Avondale" people have not uttered a sound on this....
The sheer hypocrisy makes me laugh (bitterly, while shaking my head...)
Quote from: simonsays on April 30, 2015, 03:02:16 PMIncidentally, I note that RAP and the ridiculous "We Love Avondale" people have not uttered a sound on this....
What would you like RAP to say on this?
Quote from: Steve on April 30, 2015, 03:32:08 PMWhat would you like RAP to say on this?
Something tone deaf and cringe-worthy, as usual.
Quote from: Steve on April 30, 2015, 03:32:08 PM
Quote from: simonsays on April 30, 2015, 03:02:16 PMIncidentally, I note that RAP and the ridiculous "We Love Avondale" people have not uttered a sound on this....
What would you like RAP to say on this?
Considering RAP weighs in on every re-zoning issue in the neighborhood... particularly when there is an intensification of use, why silence on this one?
Quote from: Steve on April 30, 2015, 03:32:08 PM
Quote from: simonsays on April 30, 2015, 03:02:16 PMIncidentally, I note that RAP and the ridiculous "We Love Avondale" people have not uttered a sound on this....
What would you like RAP to say on this?
I mean, they chime in on everything from fence height to paint color to parking. Seems to make sense that RAP would chime in on increased alcohol sales, unless they are every bit as hypocritical as Jim Love.
Quote from: Steve on April 30, 2015, 03:32:08 PM
Quote from: simonsays on April 30, 2015, 03:02:16 PMIncidentally, I note that RAP and the ridiculous "We Love Avondale" people have not uttered a sound on this....
What would you like RAP to say on this?
Sorry, you misunderstand me. I am merely noting that they have not said anything.
QuoteThat is very true....but I don't know that it matters. Assuming the article is true, if Ben Davis wanted to help out the neighborhood then have that same lobbyist lobby that the bill should be amended to include all commercial areas of the neighborhood. Don't kill it.
Ben Davis - Head of the J Bill Police Force.......is life really that boring that he needed to hire a PR firm to combat two restaurants he has it in for? Don't look for Intuition beers anywhere near there or their sister restaurants anytime soon. The Biscottis owners have been in Jax for a very long time too....
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 01, 2015, 09:02:19 AM
QuoteThat is very true....but I don't know that it matters. Assuming the article is true, if Ben Davis wanted to help out the neighborhood then have that same lobbyist lobby that the bill should be amended to include all commercial areas of the neighborhood. Don't kill it.
Ben Davis - Head of the J Bill Police Force.......is life really that boring that he needed to hire a PR firm to combat two restaurants he has it in for? Don't look for Intuition beers anywhere near there or their sister restaurants anytime soon. The Biscottis owners have been in Jax for a very long time too....
Better to take action on something you believe in than sit around pissing and moaning on the internet all day.
Don't forget that those restaurants did the exact same thing to try to get their secret deal passed -- all Ben did was call them out on their BS. If the restaurants want to better the neighborhood, then maybe they should do something that benefits the entirety and stop their consistent practice of only focusing on themselves.
And I'm sure he's just terrified of the incredible market power wielded by Biscotti's and Casbah. So very very scary <shivering>
QuoteAnd don't forget that those restaurants did the exact same thing to try to get their secret deal passed -- all Ben did was call them out on their BS. If the restaurants want to better the neighborhood, then maybe they should do something that benefits the entirety and stop their consistent practice of only focusing on themselves.
Calling Ben Davis, there is a J Bill issue in Jacksonville Beach, we need your resources now.....Why stop in Jacksonville, be a defender of J Bills all over the the state of Florida? Its not like the brewery business is that difficult.
The restaurants couldn't give 2 flips about "bettering the neighborhood". Tell yourself what you want, Mojo #4 moved in overnight....to "better the neighborhood". Restaurants are all about business and revenue. No one starts a restaurant to "better the neighborhood". That was a good one!
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 01, 2015, 09:21:46 AM
QuoteAnd don't forget that those restaurants did the exact same thing to try to get their secret deal passed -- all Ben did was call them out on their BS. If the restaurants want to better the neighborhood, then maybe they should do something that benefits the entirety and stop their consistent practice of only focusing on themselves.
Calling Ben Davis, there is a J Bill issue in Jacksonville Beach, we need your resources now.....Why stop in Jacksonville, be a defender of J Bills all over the the state of Florida? Its not like the brewery business is that difficult.
The restaurants couldn't give 2 flips about "bettering the neighborhood". Tell yourself what you want, Mojo #4 moved in overnight....to "better the neighborhood". Restaurants are all about business and revenue. No one starts a restaurant to "better the neighborhood". That was a good one!
Ad hominem and a lesson about the profit motive, all in one post. Brilliant. You have enlightened us all.
Your work today is done - plenty of time to go walk the dogs.
QuoteAd hominem and a lesson about the profit motive, all in one post. Brilliant. You have enlightened us all. Your work today is done - plenty of time to go walk the dogs.
Seems silly that a restaurant would want to change the world, but hey, maybe you can make it happen. You can hire a local J Bill Cop to protect your rights in Tallahassee. BREAKING NEWS - A fight has broken out a Tradewinds, calling all J Bill Cops.....please respond.
Good on Ben for putting his money where his mouth is. Now that the two restaurants have been called out, hopefully everyone will work together on a Jbill that works for everyone, not just two restaurants at the exclusion of others.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 01, 2015, 09:21:46 AM
QuoteAnd don't forget that those restaurants did the exact same thing to try to get their secret deal passed -- all Ben did was call them out on their BS. If the restaurants want to better the neighborhood, then maybe they should do something that benefits the entirety and stop their consistent practice of only focusing on themselves.
Calling Ben Davis, there is a J Bill issue in Jacksonville Beach, we need your resources now.....Why stop in Jacksonville, be a defender of J Bills all over the the state of Florida? Its not like the brewery business is that difficult.
The restaurants couldn't give 2 flips about "bettering the neighborhood". Tell yourself what you want, Mojo #4 moved in overnight....to "better the neighborhood". Restaurants are all about business and revenue. No one starts a restaurant to "better the neighborhood". That was a good one!
Interesting. So, we should frown upon someone who takes an interest in the neighborhood in which he lives? I suppose you and I have different thoughts on that issue.
And then pulling the "better the neighborhood" argument. The same argument that Biscottis made when fighting Mellow Mushroom.
Frankly, targeting Mr. Davis is this situation is silly. The bigger question is why did our elected officials not question this J Bill? It's clearly spot zoning meant to benefit two supporters. Where was Jim Love? Why is one of Jay Fant's first moves an effort to pass a spot zoning bill?
And, again, where was RAP? A piece of state legislation that affects our neighborhood is pushed through City Council and the state legislature and not a peep?
Quote from: stephendare on May 01, 2015, 10:29:36 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 01, 2015, 10:11:37 AM
Good on Ben for putting his money where his mouth is. Now that the two restaurants have been called out, hopefully everyone will work together on a Jbill that works for everyone, not just two restaurants at the exclusion of others.
one hundred percent yes.
Getting Jim Love to screw John Valentino (and King Street) on the grounds of 'too much liquor' when it served their interests, and then turning right around and asking for help to get liquor exceptions for themselves is exactly representative of the kinds of insider baseball that is pure poison to small business districts.
Good on Ben for leveling the field so that the only option is to work together.
here here
Quote from: fieldafm on April 30, 2015, 03:36:44 PM
Quote from: Steve on April 30, 2015, 03:32:08 PM
Quote from: simonsays on April 30, 2015, 03:02:16 PMIncidentally, I note that RAP and the ridiculous "We Love Avondale" people have not uttered a sound on this....
What would you like RAP to say on this?
Considering RAP weighs in on every re-zoning issue in the neighborhood... particularly when there is an intensification of use, why silence on this one?
Yes, I'd be interested to hear RAP's explanation of their silence on their issue.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 01, 2015, 09:41:36 AM
QuoteAd hominem and a lesson about the profit motive, all in one post. Brilliant. You have enlightened us all. Your work today is done - plenty of time to go walk the dogs.
Seems silly that a restaurant would want to change the world, but hey, maybe you can make it happen. You can hire a local J Bill Cop to protect your rights in Tallahassee. BREAKING NEWS - A fight has broken out a Tradewinds, calling all J Bill Cops.....please respond.
Forget it, Donny. You're out of your element.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 01, 2015, 10:11:37 AM
Good on Ben for putting his money where his mouth is. Now that the two restaurants have been called out, hopefully everyone will work together on a Jbill that works for everyone, not just two restaurants at the exclusion of others.
+ 1
Everyone's thoughts really helped clarify things for me, thank you. It sounds to me like it was a respectable move on Ben Davis' part.
I will note however: I believe that Casbah changed owners in the past year. Not sure what the specifics are, but I'd hesitate to call them hypocrites re:The Mellow Mushroom Debacle(TM), being that the current owners weren't around for it (to the best of my knowledge).
Quote from: fieldafm on April 30, 2015, 11:04:19 AM
It has nothing to do with a brewery being afraid that they will loose sales to liquor companies (like most craft beer breweries, they can't produce enough to keep up with the demand for their product as it is).
The J Bill proposed was a classic case of spot zoning, which is 'zoning speak' for a situation whereas one parcel of land receives a special land use classification that is completely different from other properties in the same area. One person gets an advantage over others. Generally, spot zoning cases deal with the issue of fairness.
For context, in 2010 when Black Sheep was being constructed in Five Points.. their ownership group lobbied for a J Bill that would apply the same alchohol standards that downtown restaurants enjoy to Five Points and portions of North Riverside. Generally, these J Bills are looked at as economic development tools as a way to change zoning over a wide area in order to make that area more economically competitive given other inherent market disadvantages or unique characteristics of their built environment.
SRX alcohol licenses are issued to bona fide restaurants with 150+ seats whose food sales constitute 51% or more of the business' revenue. In dowtown, restaurants only need to have 100+ seats to be eligible for an SRX license. In dense, urban environments... it generally isn't practical or desirable to apply suburban standards to restaurants (otherwise, you'd see a place like the Bostwick Building, Downtown Cigar Lounge and 1904 Music Hall-all small buildings with zero lot lines and no parking on site- get knocked down in order to build a suburban-style Applebees with a huge surface parking lot just to be able to have liquor sales in a restaurant).
The J Bill Black Sheep got approved rolled Five Points and a portion of North Riverside into the downtown overlay in relation to SRX liceneses. This was good not only for Black Sheep, but for all commercial lands whose zoning allows for a restaurant use in these neighborhoods. In other words, it helped raise the economic tide for everyone.
The J Bill proposed for Biscottis and Casbah only applies to their land... and their land only giving them a competitve advantage that no one else in Avondale would also be eligible for.
If you believe that's fair, then you would probably be for the J Bill they proposed. If you don't think that's fair, you would probably be against the Biscottis/Casbah J Bill.
This was an immensely helpful response, BTW, thank you.
Quote from: stephendare on May 01, 2015, 11:13:01 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 01, 2015, 10:51:25 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on April 30, 2015, 03:36:44 PM
Quote from: Steve on April 30, 2015, 03:32:08 PM
Quote from: simonsays on April 30, 2015, 03:02:16 PMIncidentally, I note that RAP and the ridiculous "We Love Avondale" people have not uttered a sound on this....
What would you like RAP to say on this?
Considering RAP weighs in on every re-zoning issue in the neighborhood... particularly when there is an intensification of use, why silence on this one?
Yes, I'd be interested to hear RAP's explanation of their silence on their issue.
the silence is rather deafening. One can hardly hear anything else, really.
Sounds like mtrain spoke for them.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 30, 2015, 11:04:19 AM
It has nothing to do with a brewery being afraid that they will loose sales to liquor companies (like most craft beer breweries, they can't produce enough to keep up with the demand for their product as it is).
The J Bill proposed was a classic case of spot zoning, which is 'zoning speak' for a situation whereas one parcel of land receives a special land use classification that is completely different from other properties in the same area. One person gets an advantage over others. Generally, spot zoning cases deal with the issue of fairness.
For context, in 2010 when Black Sheep was being constructed in Five Points.. their ownership group lobbied for a J Bill that would apply the same alchohol standards that downtown restaurants enjoy to Five Points and portions of North Riverside. Generally, these J Bills are looked at as economic development tools as a way to change zoning over a wide area in order to make that area more economically competitive given other inherent market disadvantages or unique characteristics of their buiGlt environment.
SRX alcohol licenses are issued to bona fide restaurants with 150+ seats whose food sales constitute 51% or more of the business' revenue. In dowtown, restaurants only need to have 100+ seats to be eligible for an SRX license. In dense, urban environments... it generally isn't practical or desirable to apply suburban standards to restaurants (otherwise, you'd see a place like the Bostwick Building, Downtown Cigar Lounge and 1904 Music Hall-all small buildings with zero lot lines and no parking on site- get knocked down in order to build a suburban-style Applebees with a huge surface parking lot just to be able to have liquor sales in a restaurant).
The J Bill Black Sheep got approved rolled Five Points and a portion of North Riverside into the downtown overlay in relation to SRX liceneses. This was good not only for Black Sheep, but for all commercial lands whose zoning allows for a restaurant use in these neighborhoods. In other words, it helped raise the economic tide for everyone.
The J Bill proposed for Biscottis and Casbah only applies to their land... and their land only giving them a competitve advantage that no one else in Avondale would also be eligible for.
If you believe that's fair, then you would probably be for the J Bill they proposed. If you don't think that's fair, you would probably be against the Biscottis/Casbah J Bill.
Nice explanation.
2010-856
Anyone else feeling sorry for the ..............Guys?
^ I feel sorry for those guys from Baltimore that operated the water taxi ;)
I'm just saying you lose business, you loose the laces on your shoes.
^ stupid. All Ben did here was show the hypocrisy of (and get back at) the restaurant owners that fought so hard to keep Mellow Mushroom out of the neighborhood, partially because of liquor sales.
Furthermore, no bill should be approved in the state Legislature that basically addresses a specific site. This is often an issue with growth management legislation.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on May 04, 2015, 09:04:43 AM
Quote from: Ming The Merciless on April 30, 2015, 11:59:01 AM
Kudos to Ben for having the gnads to stand up to these hypocrites.
Kudos to Ben for having the gnads Davis family money to decide what is best for the rest of the thousands of residents in the neighborhood.
Are you saying special zoning for individual restaurants based on a special relationship with a State Rep is in the best interest of the residents?
Yea,how dare Biscottis and Casaba differentiate themselves with "spot" liquor sale privilege! After all, within eyesight of Biscottis and Casbah there are only FIVE establishments serving liquor. Ben Davis would probably like to own one of 'em. Nice corner location....... the chances of significantly expanding existing establishments unlikely,so ya' gotta clamp down on emerging square footage competition.....within eyesight. 8)
Quote from: Know Growth on May 04, 2015, 09:40:41 PM
Yea,how dare Biscottis and Casaba differentiate themselves with "spot" liquor sale privilege! After all, within eyesight of Biscottis and Casbah there are only FIVE establishments serving liquor. Ben Davis would probably like to own one of 'em. Nice corner location....... the chances of significantly expanding existing establishments unlikely,so ya' gotta clamp down on emerging square footage competition.....within eyesight. 8)
Yeah, those other establishments either: (1) have full service meals for 150 seats and are at least 2,500 sf or (2) have purchased a quota alcohol license. It should be noted that Biscottis or Casbah could serve alcohol if they purchased a quota license. I guess you are cool with throwing out the existing regulatory scheme for the benefit of two restaurants.
Quote from: stephendare on May 04, 2015, 09:52:16 PM
Quote from: Know Growth on May 04, 2015, 09:40:41 PM
Yea,how dare Biscottis and Casaba differentiate themselves with "spot" liquor sale privilege! After all, within eyesight of Biscottis and Casbah there are only FIVE establishments serving liquor. Ben Davis would probably like to own one of 'em. Nice corner location....... the chances of significantly expanding existing establishments unlikely,so ya' gotta clamp down on emerging square footage competition.....within eyesight. 8)
or make a uniform law that everyone abides by and encourages walkability.
Weren't you singing a different tune back when you were claiming that the end of Avondale was coming because of a really cool pizza place opening up?
Where are all the fatalities and mayhem that you promised?
You might have me mistaken for some of those those predictions....
No matter.
We can credit RAP and citizen involvement for scaling back the most harmful potential impacts,refining the end product.
During MM Land Use & Zone review period there was discussion of someone's interest in purchasing Monty's,perhaps assumed major revision...... ;D
Take away the drive through at Monty's!.... :o.........now that's the end of the place! ;)
Maybe limiting Liquor to FIVE locations will enhance "Walkability" :)
Quote from: Know Growth on May 05, 2015, 12:49:02 PM
We can credit RAP and citizen involvement for scaling back the most harmful potential impacts,refining the end product.
[/quote]
You mean the part where they killed the adaptive reuse of the existing historical building and forced the construction of an entirely new structure? Those harmful impacts?
Quote^ stupid. All Ben did here was show the hypocrisy of (and get back at) the restaurant owners that fought so hard to keep Mellow Mushroom out of the neighborhood, partially because of liquor sales.
A truly ridiculous argument since everyone and their 2nd cousins knew the restaurant was going to get allowed, with a few compromises. Same thing will happen with the old Yesterday's location.
No place in Jacksonville for vengeance or that piss poor attitude.
As someone who has no idea how this works, let me ask: what would be the hurdles that need to be hopped in order to make a neighborhood-wide allowance, as discussed earlier in this thread? Is it any more or less difficult than the proposal that was already shot down?
Quote from: Andy on May 06, 2015, 08:45:06 AM
As someone who has no idea how this works, let me ask: what would be the hurdles that need to be hopped in order to make a neighborhood-wide allowance, as discussed earlier in this thread? Is it any more or less difficult than the proposal that was already shot down?
The people that hired a lobbyist to help get their properties a special exemption for SRX licenses could have just as easily sought the designation for the entire commercial district. Perhaps if that course of action was taken (benefiting all property owners-which is generally why these J Bills exist, to promote economic development- instead of carving out their own special use), the outcome would have been different and there likely would have been no opposition whatsoever. See the Black Sheep example for Five Points/North Riverside.
In fact, I could see an opportunity where if other property owners and RAP wanted to pool resources and explore the issue under the next legislative session... that such an overlay could be proposed for the commercial areas along McDuff, Stockton and St Johns Ave. You may even have the opportunity for local officials to propose such a bill through the Duval Delegation... instead of hiring a lobbyist to directly solicit support from a state representive. That would certainly be an option where a broad swath of stakeholders have the opportunity to weigh in on such issues, instead of working behind closed doors with hired guns.
QuoteNow we just need to find a place for fairness in Avondale. Luckily, Ben has helped provide that.
Good thing Karma is a bitch!
^Apparently so.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 06, 2015, 06:48:21 PM
QuoteNow we just need to find a place for fairness in Avondale. Luckily, Ben has helped provide that.
Good thing Karma is a bitch!
Whatever the methods and personal interests of the person who raised objection, I will ask you the same as I have asked others:
Are you saying special zoning for individual restaurants based on a special relationship with a State Rep is in the best interest of the residents?
As someone who lives very close I am OK with Ben raising his concerns even if there was a bit of vengeance involved.
QuoteWhatever the methods and personal interests of the person who raised objection, I will ask you the same as I have asked others:
Are you saying special zoning for individual restaurants based on a special relationship with a State Rep is in the best interest of the residents?
As someone who lives very close I am OK with Ben raising his concerns even if there was a bit of vengeance involved.
Maybe it was personal between him and Fant, maybe the 2 restaurants were just collateral damage. Davis is vocal on the brewing industry, but going head to head with a state rep on his legislation, when you are trying to win a bigger battle at the State Level..... they have long memories in Tally.
He had nothing to gain for his business. I'd be amused to hear him come out and say he did it for.......the betterment of the community and his heart is in it for Riverside Avondale Preservation. ::)
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 07, 2015, 02:35:43 PM
He had nothing to gain for his business. I'd be amused to hear him come out and say he did it for.......the betterment of the community and his heart is in it for Riverside Avondale Preservation. ::)
Would you change your tune if this time next year there's legislation in place that would benefit the area as a whole with regards to alcohol sales, similar to the BlackSheep pitch?
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 07, 2015, 02:35:43 PM
QuoteWhatever the methods and personal interests of the person who raised objection, I will ask you the same as I have asked others:
Are you saying special zoning for individual restaurants based on a special relationship with a State Rep is in the best interest of the residents?
As someone who lives very close I am OK with Ben raising his concerns even if there was a bit of vengeance involved.
Maybe it was personal between him and Fant, maybe the 2 restaurants were just collateral damage. Davis is vocal on the brewing industry, but going head to head with a state rep on his legislation, when you are trying to win a bigger battle at the State Level..... they have long memories in Tally.
He had nothing to gain for his business. I'd be amused to hear him come out and say he did it for.......the betterment of the community and his heart is in it for Riverside Avondale Preservation. ::)
I'm not sure that's much of a concern for him. They already won on the growler bill, that's all over but the crying (and the lawsuits against the state by AB Distributors, which should prove interesting). If his lobbyists can defeat Anheuiser Busch, I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's not really shaking over pissing biscottis off. Just a guess though.
In "spite" of it all,no matter,Biscottis Bar Manager just received nice raise.
And another neighbor is moving out- no need for "Handy" Shoppes.
Patronized MM till darn near close hour May 7.......all the semi-strangers' complimentary shots.......yikes!,wife does not recall the drive home.Can't imagine walking......
Could easily trade a western Duval home site with half acre swim pond for Handy To Shoppes.
Original post/ Times Union Article sub title could have read: "Beer Maker Fights Hard Liquor License Expansion" :)
Onward!
8)
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 03, 2015, 09:28:23 PM
^ I feel sorry for those guys from Baltimore that operated the water taxi ;)
2014-412 is on the agenda for the 5/13/15 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting in 3 hours. Starts at 9. just 6 days prior to the city elections.
We need another round over here!
HEY, Jacksonville! We have a BARGE! Does Putnam county know about this?