Metro Jacksonville

QuoteDowntown Jacksonville's SunTrust Tower is the latest high-rise building to be sold.
Mainstreet Capital Partners, a Fort Lauderdale-based real estate investment company, paid $31.1 million last week for the 23-story building at 76 S. Laura St. on the Northbank.

Mainstreet CV 76 S. Laura St. LLC bought the property from six owners, according to deeds recorded Friday with the Duval County Clerk of Court. BMO Harris Bank of Chicago issued a $27.15 million mortgage.

At the 76 S. Laura St. tower, deeds show that Mainstreet paid:

• $19.999 million for units from Parador Laura Street Offices LLC, led by Ashish Bahl.

• $8.325 million for units from Trimurti Investments Inc. of Orlando, whose vice president is Jacqueline A. Frowd.

• $1.356 million for units from Go-To-Pay LLC, whose manager is Ashish Bahl.

• $800,000 for units from National Certification Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine Inc., whose CEO is Kory Ward-Cook.

• $350,000 for units from Trimurti Investments Inc. of Orlando.

$292,374 for a condominium from CREX-McBurney LLC, led by Charles W. McBurney Jr.

Mainstreet Capital Partners, led by President and Partner Paul Kilgallon, invests in office and industrial buildings. Kilgallon started the company in 1999.

It owns and manages 3.2 million square feet of space valued at more than $407 million throughout the Southeast U.S., including seven properties in Florida, along with buildings and corporate centers in Georgia and North Carolina.

The 383,239-square-foot SunTrust Tower was built in 1989. It had been marketed as office-condominiums by Florida investor Cameron Kuhn, who bought the structure in 2005.

After the lender took title to the property in 2008, the office space that remained unsold was made available for lease. Parador Partners  bought the space in 2009.

Cushman & Wakefield announced in January it would serve as the leasing agent for the 280,000 square feet owned by Parador Partners.

The tower is the seventh Downtown high-rise office buildings sold to investors since December 2013.

On the Northbank, the Bank of America Tower sold for $88 million; Wells Fargo Center, $79 million; EverBank Center, $47 million; and the 550 Water Street building, $30 million.

On the Southbank, the Aetna Building sold for $55.5 million and Riverplace Tower for $29 million.

Last year was a big one for commercial real estate sales in Jacksonville. The Colliers International real estate company reported a record $2.9 billion in transactions took place, a "staggering" 67 percent increase from the record $1.7 billion in 2013 and more than double the total of 2012.

Colliers said the $758 million in office transactions in the metro area was up 142 percent from 2013 and seven-fold from 2012.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=545195

Hmm. Nice. We subsidized the construction of a garage so that those invested in the adjacent structure could sell it at a profit and skip town. So what happens to the deal with Parador to add retail to the garage currently under construction?  Does it pass on to MainStreet?

These transfers and sales mean nothing to me; will they help, in some way, with the office vacancy rate downtown so that the demand increases for more high rises and skyscrapers? Probably not.

Quote from: thelakelander on April 04, 2015, 02:59:41 PM
Hmm. Nice. We subsidized the construction of a garage so that those invested in the adjacent structure could sell it at a profit and skip town. So what happens to the deal with Parador to add retail to the garage currently under construction?  Does it pass on to MainStreet?

Bill Type and Number: Ordinance 2014-549

Introducer/Sponsor(s): Council President at the request of the Mayor

Date of Introduction: August 12, 2014

Committee(s) of Reference: F

Date of Analysis: August 14, 2014

Type of Action: Amendment to economic development agreement; designation of oversight agency

Bill Summary: The bill authorizes execution of a First Amendment to the economic development agreement between the City and Parador Partners, LLC/Parador Parking, LLC for construction of a parking garage on Hogan Street between Bay Street and Independent Drive to permit Parador Parking to potentially sell the garage without violating the provisions of the original economic development agreement. The Office of Economic Development is designated as the oversight agency for the first amendment and the Executive Director of the OED is authorized as the party to grant the City's consent to any assignment of the agreement to a third party purchaser.

Background Information: In 2011 the City entered into an economic development agreement with Parador Partners by which the City would contribute $3.5 million toward the cost of construction of a 500+ space parking garage at the southeast corner of Bay and Hogan Streets, which could be used to help provide for the parking needs of downtown office towers and to help satisfy the City's obligation to the Jacksonville Landing to provide a number of dedicated parking spaces for Landing patrons during the business day and an increased number at night and on weekends. The agreement contains a clawback provision stating that if Parador sells the garage within the first 5 years after completion, the City is entitled to a proportional return of its investment of 20% per year during those 5 years.

The original ordinance authorizing the Parador agreement can be found here.

http://cityclts.coj.net/docs/2011-0366%5COriginal%20Text/2011-366.doc

Did Parador sell the garage as a part of this deal?

Parador Parking LLC also deeded the garage parcel to Mainstreet CV 76 S. Laura St. LLC. The Parador garage is under construction at 37 S. Hogan St., next to the tower.

Quote from: thelakelander on April 04, 2015, 02:59:41 PM
Hmm. Nice. We subsidized the construction of a garage so that those invested in the adjacent structure could sell it at a profit and skip town. So what happens to the deal with Parador to add retail to the garage currently under construction?  Does it pass on to MainStreet?

I predicted this would happen, said as such at DDRB and Parador specifically said they were not trying to flip the building.

THIS is the problem with downtown. The Mayor got his press conference, taxpayers subsidized a property flipper while prime downtown real estate will now be dead space for the next 30 years. Oh, and the Landing is still waiting for its additional parking 25 years later (the money used for the Suntrust Building parking garage was originally slated to provide dedicated parking for the Landing).

Quote from: spuwho on April 04, 2015, 04:40:54 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on April 04, 2015, 02:59:41 PM
Hmm. Nice. We subsidized the construction of a garage so that those invested in the adjacent structure could sell it at a profit and skip town. So what happens to the deal with Parador to add retail to the garage currently under construction?  Does it pass on to MainStreet?

Bill Type and Number: Ordinance 2014-549

Introducer/Sponsor(s): Council President at the request of the Mayor

Date of Introduction: August 12, 2014

Committee(s) of Reference: F

Date of Analysis: August 14, 2014

Type of Action: Amendment to economic development agreement; designation of oversight agency

Bill Summary: The bill authorizes execution of a First Amendment to the economic development agreement between the City and Parador Partners, LLC/Parador Parking, LLC for construction of a parking garage on Hogan Street between Bay Street and Independent Drive to permit Parador Parking to potentially sell the garage without violating the provisions of the original economic development agreement. The Office of Economic Development is designated as the oversight agency for the first amendment and the Executive Director of the OED is authorized as the party to grant the City's consent to any assignment of the agreement to a third party purchaser.

Background Information: In 2011 the City entered into an economic development agreement with Parador Partners by which the City would contribute $3.5 million toward the cost of construction of a 500+ space parking garage at the southeast corner of Bay and Hogan Streets, which could be used to help provide for the parking needs of downtown office towers and to help satisfy the City's obligation to the Jacksonville Landing to provide a number of dedicated parking spaces for Landing patrons during the business day and an increased number at night and on weekends. The agreement contains a clawback provision stating that if Parador sells the garage within the first 5 years after completion, the City is entitled to a proportional return of its investment of 20% per year during those 5 years.

The city needs to collect on this and require the retail portion still be met.

Quote from: JeffreyS on April 04, 2015, 09:38:20 PM
The city needs to collect on this and require the retail portion still be met.

Collect what?

Quote from: spuwho on April 04, 2015, 04:40:54 PM
The agreement contains a clawback provision stating that if Parador sells the garage within the first 5 years AFTER completion, the City is entitled to a proportional return of its investment of 20% per year during those 5 years.

Last I checked, the garage is still under construction.

Hate to parse words on this one but the ordinance says the clawback is effective if they flip "up to 5 years after completion" of the garage.

Garage isnt done. So I interpret that to mean the new owners are on the hook for the clawback if they sell post garage completion.

I haven't read all the ordinances supporting Parador,  but on surface it appears someone took advantage of the city snagging that hard to grab parcel next door. Wonder what the new owners think about that occupancy/retail requirement.

Dont wanna sound CSI or anything but it would be interesting to know if any work "slow downs" were done on that garage as they got closer to closing the sale.

Looks to me as though maybe he city has given up the clawback. >:( >:(

Quote
  2014-549   ORD Auth 1st Amend to Economic Dev Agreemt Apvd by Ord 2011-355-E with Parador Partners, LLC as Subsequently assigned to Parador Parking, LLC, to Eliminate the Sale Clawback so as to Auth Sale of Proj Parcel & Assignmt of Agreemt to the Purchaser; Auth Director of OED to Consent to such Assignmts at his Discretion. (Sawyer) (Req of Mayor)

http://www.coj.net/city-council/events/all-events/city-council-joint-rules,-finance-teu-committee-me.aspx
(http://www.coj.net/city-council/events/all-events/city-council-joint-rules,-finance-teu-committee-me.aspx)

not sure that this was approved.

Quote from: JeffreyS on April 04, 2015, 10:53:21 PM
Looks to me as though maybe he city has given up the clawback. >:( >:(

Quote
  2014-549   ORD Auth 1st Amend to Economic Dev Agreemt Apvd by Ord 2011-355-E with Parador Partners, LLC as Subsequently assigned to Parador Parking, LLC, to Eliminate the Sale Clawback so as to Auth Sale of Proj Parcel & Assignmt of Agreemt to the Purchaser; Auth Director of OED to Consent to such Assignmts at his Discretion. (Sawyer) (Req of Mayor)

http://www.coj.net/city-council/events/all-events/city-council-joint-rules,-finance-teu-committee-me.aspx
(http://www.coj.net/city-council/events/all-events/city-council-joint-rules,-finance-teu-committee-me.aspx)

not sure that this was approved.

The proposed amendment was sent to Finance Committee and approved. Below is an excerpt from the minutes. Paul Harden explained the reason for the change, but the person taking the minutes didn't record it. You would think that a major change in finances around an ordinance would get better recording. Meets the Sunshine Law. Guess you will have to find the reasons in the DDIA minutes.

http://apps2.coj.net/City_Council_Public_Notices_Repository/20140923%20Minutes%20Joint%20Finance-RCDPHS%20Comm.doc
(http://apps2.coj.net/City_Council_Public_Notices_Repository/20140923%20Minutes%20Joint%20Finance-RCDPHS%20Comm.doc)


2014-549 (amendment to Parador Partners economic development agreement): Council Member Boyer said that the amendment as approved by the DIA board at its recent meeting included two facets – City approval of Parador Partners taking on a new partner/investor in the garage project, and elimination of the clawback of the City grant in the event that Parador sells the garage within the first 5 years of receiving the grant. Paul Harden representing Parador Partners answered questions from several committee members regarding the purpose of the amendment and the construction progress on the garage. The committee approved an amendment as marked on the Joint Committee agenda to 1) designate the Downtown Investment Authority rather than the Office of Economic Development as the City's oversight agency; and 2) to make technical corrections.

Motion: recommend approval of the ordinance as amended – approved 8-1

Here is the presentation of the amended ordinance to COJ Council.



Introduced by the Council President at the request of the Mayor and amended by the Finance Committee:


ORDINANCE 2014-549-E
AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING A FIRST AMENDMENT (THE "FIRST AMENDMENT") TO AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT PREVIOUSLY APPROVED BY ORDINANCE 2011-366-E (THE "AGREEMENT") BETWEEN THE CITY OF JACKSONVILLE (THE "CITY"), AND  PARADOR PARTNERS, LLC, AS SUBSEQUENTLY ASSIGNED TO PARADOR PARKING, LLC ("DEVELOPER"), FOR THE PURPOSE OF ELIMINATING THE SALE CLAWBACK SO AS TO AUTHORIZE THE SALE OF THE PROJECT PARCEL AND THE ASSIGNMENT OF THE AGREEMENT TO A PURCHASER OF THE PROJECT PARCEL; APPROVING AND AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR, OR HIS DESIGNEE, AND THE CORPORATION SECRETARY, TO EXECUTE THE FIRST AMENDMENT; AUTHORIZING THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF THE DOWNTOWN INVESTMENT AUTHORITY TO CONSENT TO SUCH ASSIGNMENTS IN HIS REASONABLE DISCRETION; PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

WHEREAS, pursuant to authority granted in Ordinance 2011-336E, the City of Jacksonville ("City") and the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission ("JEDC"), predecessor to the Downtown Investment Authority ("DIA") and the Office of Economic Development ("OED"), entered into an Economic Development Agreement dated November 21, 2011, with the Developer, which provided for a payment of a $3,500,000 grant to Developer upon completion of the construction and opening of a multi-story 500 plus space parking structure at the southeast corner of Bay and Hogan Streets ("the Project"); and
WHEREAS, the Developer has indicated it may wish to sell the Project Parcel in the future, and wishes to do so without violating the sale clawback provisions in Section 7.2.2 of the Agreement, and has requested the deletion of that provision from the Agreement; and
WHEREAS, the OED has reviewed the request submitted by the Developer for amendment of the Agreement as described herein, and, based upon the contents of the First Amendment, has determined the First Amendment and the uses contemplated therein to be in the public interest, and has determined that the public actions contemplated in the First Amendment take into account and give consideration to the long-term public interests and public interest benefits to be achieved by the City; now therefore,
BE IT ORDAINED by the Council of the City of Jacksonville:
Findings. It is hereby ascertained, determined, found and declared as follows:
The recitals set forth herein are true and correct.
The authorizations provided by this Ordinance are for public uses and purposes for which the City may use its powers as a county, municipality and as a political subdivision of the State of Florida and may expend public funds, and the necessity in the public interest for the provisions herein enacted is hereby declared as a matter of legislative determination.
This ordinance is adopted pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 163, 166 and Chapter 125, Florida Statutes, as amended, the City's Charter, and other applicable provisions of law.
   First Amendment Approved.    There is hereby approved and the Mayor and Corporation Secretary are authorized to enter into a First Amendment to Economic Development Agreement (the "First Amendment") between the City and the Developer, substantially in the form attached hereto as Exhibit 1 (with such "technical" changes as herein authorized).   
   Designation of Authorized Contract Monitor.  The Chief Executive Officer of the DIA is designated as the authorized official of the City for the purpose of executing and delivering any contracts, notes and documents and furnishing such information, data and documents for the First Amendment as may be required and otherwise to act as the authorized official of the City in connection with the First Amendment and is further authorized to designate one or more other officials of the City to exercise any of the foregoing authorizations and to furnish or cause to be furnished such information and take or cause to be taken such action as may be necessary to enable the City to implement the First Amendment according to their terms.  The DIA is hereby required to administer and monitor the First Amendment and to handle the City's responsibilities thereunder. 
     Authority to Assign Economic Development Agreement to Purchaser of Project Parcel.  The Chief Executive Officer of the DIA is hereby authorized in his reasonable discretion to grant the City's consent to any assignments of the Agreement to a third-party Purchaser of the Project Parcel (as defined in the Agreement).
   Further Authorizations.  The Mayor, or his designee and the Corporation Secretary are hereby authorized to execute the First Amendment and all other contracts and documents and otherwise take all necessary action in connection therewith and herewith. The First Amendment may include such additions, deletions and changes as may be reasonable, necessary and incidental for carrying out the purposes thereof, as may be acceptable to the Mayor, or his designee, with such inclusion and acceptance being evidenced by execution of the First Amendment by the Mayor or his designee.  Such modifications shall be technical only and shall be subject to appropriate legal review and approval of the Office of General Counsel, and all other appropriate action required by law ("technical" is herein defined as including, but not limited to, changes in legal descriptions and surveys, descriptions of infrastructure improvements and/or any road project, ingress and egress, easements and rights of way, have no financial impact).   
  Effective Date.   This Ordinance shall become effective upon signature by the Mayor or upon becoming effective without the Mayor's signature.
Form Approved:

Lawsikia J. Hodges_         
Office of General Counsel
Legislation prepared by:   John C. Sawyer, Jr.

The really bad part is he would have built the retail up front had the city stuck to its own requirements. This was always a flip job and I was there the day Feild told the board that wasthe case.

Nothing about this garage was done correct from the beginning- landing, building with correct size retail to begin with, building with intent of holding additional add on layers or tower later. 
The only thing that Brown really did for downtown and it was a flop. 

^Like the Brooklyn developments, the garage dates back before the Brown administration.

Half of this board predicted ALL of this would happen.  We can dig up countless posts.  COJ is literally the most incompetent city in the country.  The city would do BETTER if there were NO government whatsoever, lol.  This city and all the idiots who run it and the idiots who vote those idiots into office couldn't possibly make dumber decisions on a sequential/consecutive basis if they tried.

I'd go so far as to say that if this were 16th century France, heads should roll.  Now since it's 21st century America, people should lose their jobs over this - whoever's still in that had a part in all of this.  Is there such a thing as a fiduciary responsibility to taxpayers?

On the bright side, maybe easier to re-assess the building at a higher value now that it traded?  But it still won't cover the cost the city has put in to foster this transaction.

Quote from: stephendare on April 05, 2015, 02:32:24 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on April 05, 2015, 02:30:39 PM
^Like the Brooklyn developments, the garage dates back before the Brown administration.

To illustrate this, look at the original ordinance.  Its 2011.  The year Brown was getting elected.  He didn't take office till afterwards.

Whoa, let's back up here. The entire fiasco happened during the Brown administration. It was well into 2012 when this deal finally went to DDRB and didn't even get sent to Council until 2013.

SEVERAL COJ employees during this time (myself and Doug Skiles were the public voices pushing a better product on this from the beginning) told me that Mayor Brown left no doubt to COJ employees that this garage would need to be built no matter what. They pushed through the elimination of retail and they were the ones that shifted money from Sleiman Enterprises failed request to buy the Enterprise Center parking facility (that was Peyton's last F-U towards Sleiman as he was leaving office) thereby raiding the money that had been set aside to settle a decades long commitment to provide dedicated Landing parking. The mayoral administration also pushed through the elimination of the clawback provision (further screwing over taxpayers). Let's not make the Mayor's office out to be the hero in this situation. They are far from it.

The old Kuhn parking-garage deal was dead long ago. The newest Parador-specific redevelopment deal, the new garage (that couldn't be expanded vertically-like the old proposal) and the new subsidization-scheme was all done during Brown's term. Frankly, trying to absolve the Brown administration from this fiasco is insulting.

^Yes, Brown's administration has its faults as well. It was never my intention to state that they did not. However, I do remember the idea of taking the money that was supposed to go to the purchase of the Enterprise Center lot and spending it on a garage at this site, originating in the final Peyton days.  Ron Barton was still around in those days.  Here's a quote from a 2010 article:

QuoteOn one side is Mayor John Peyton and his administration.

Ron Barton, the executive director of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, released his most recent ideas for solving the Landing's parking woes earlier this week.

One was to let Landing patrons park for free in the city-owned Water Street garage.

It's only a five-minute walk from the garage to the Landing, and I had made that same suggestion several years ago.

That must have been on a winter day. When I walked the path Tuesday evening, when it was just 80 degrees, it was a bit warm. In summer's 95 degree heat, it's not going to happen.

And let's just say the sidewalks there aren't exactly pedestrian friendly. Scratch that idea.

Barton's second idea is to provide free parking in the courthouse lot on weekends and after 6 p.m. on weekdays.

Same problem. It's about a five-minute walk to the Landing. Besides that option always has been available, and Landing customers don't use it.

Barton's third proposal is for the city to give $2.2 million to the owners of the SunTrust building across the street from the Landing to build a parking garage, which would have 200 spaces set aside for the Landing on weekends and after 6 p.m. on weekdays.

Enter the other side of this fight, Toney Sleiman, now the Landing's owner.

Sleiman maintains that the only way he can attract the nationally known restaurants needed to revitalize the Landing is to have guaranteed parking, especially for the lunch-time crowd.

Barton's ideas are a flop at that, Sleiman says. He's also miffed at the idea of the city spending $2.2 million to help SunTrust build a garage.

That money, in his view, is part of the $3.5 million the city promised for Landing parking through previous agreements that fell through.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400904/ron-littlepage/2010-04-22/sleiman-has-stronger-case-landing-parking-issue

It was a bad idea when Peyton's administration proposed it and it was a bad idea when Brown's administration finalized it. Good deal for Parador though.  The other Suntrust owners should send them a turkey for Thanksgiving.

Quote from: thelakelander on April 05, 2015, 06:39:22 PM
^Yes, Brown's administration has its faults as well. It was never my intention to state that they did not. However, I do remember the idea of taking the money that was supposed to go to the purchase of the Enterprise Center lot and spending it on a garage at this site, originating in the final Peyton days.  Ron Barton was still around in those days.  Here's a quote from a 2010 article:

QuoteOn one side is Mayor John Peyton and his administration.

Ron Barton, the executive director of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, released his most recent ideas for solving the Landing's parking woes earlier this week.

One was to let Landing patrons park for free in the city-owned Water Street garage.

It's only a five-minute walk from the garage to the Landing, and I had made that same suggestion several years ago.

That must have been on a winter day. When I walked the path Tuesday evening, when it was just 80 degrees, it was a bit warm. In summer's 95 degree heat, it's not going to happen.

And let's just say the sidewalks there aren't exactly pedestrian friendly. Scratch that idea.

Barton's second idea is to provide free parking in the courthouse lot on weekends and after 6 p.m. on weekdays.

Same problem. It's about a five-minute walk to the Landing. Besides that option always has been available, and Landing customers don't use it.

Barton's third proposal is for the city to give $2.2 million to the owners of the SunTrust building across the street from the Landing to build a parking garage, which would have 200 spaces set aside for the Landing on weekends and after 6 p.m. on weekdays.

Enter the other side of this fight, Toney Sleiman, now the Landing's owner.

Sleiman maintains that the only way he can attract the nationally known restaurants needed to revitalize the Landing is to have guaranteed parking, especially for the lunch-time crowd.

Barton's ideas are a flop at that, Sleiman says. He's also miffed at the idea of the city spending $2.2 million to help SunTrust build a garage.

That money, in his view, is part of the $3.5 million the city promised for Landing parking through previous agreements that fell through.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400904/ron-littlepage/2010-04-22/sleiman-has-stronger-case-landing-parking-issue

It was a bad idea when Peyton's administration proposed it and it was a bad idea when Brown's administration finalized it. Good deal for Parador though.  The other Suntrust owners should send them a turkey for Thanksgiving.

How much do the developers at for the Trio/Barnett Bank buildings want again?

Quote from: thelakelander on April 05, 2015, 06:39:22 PM
^Yes, Brown's administration has its faults as well. It was never my intention to state that they did not. However, I do remember the idea of taking the money that was supposed to go to the purchase of the Enterprise Center lot and spending it on a garage at this site, originating in the final Peyton days.  Ron Barton was still around in those days.  Here's a quote from a 2010 article:

QuoteOn one side is Mayor John Peyton and his administration.

Ron Barton, the executive director of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, released his most recent ideas for solving the Landing's parking woes earlier this week.

One was to let Landing patrons park for free in the city-owned Water Street garage.

It's only a five-minute walk from the garage to the Landing, and I had made that same suggestion several years ago.

That must have been on a winter day. When I walked the path Tuesday evening, when it was just 80 degrees, it was a bit warm. In summer's 95 degree heat, it's not going to happen.

And let's just say the sidewalks there aren't exactly pedestrian friendly. Scratch that idea.

Barton's second idea is to provide free parking in the courthouse lot on weekends and after 6 p.m. on weekdays.

Same problem. It's about a five-minute walk to the Landing. Besides that option always has been available, and Landing customers don't use it.

Barton's third proposal is for the city to give $2.2 million to the owners of the SunTrust building across the street from the Landing to build a parking garage, which would have 200 spaces set aside for the Landing on weekends and after 6 p.m. on weekdays.

Enter the other side of this fight, Toney Sleiman, now the Landing's owner.

Sleiman maintains that the only way he can attract the nationally known restaurants needed to revitalize the Landing is to have guaranteed parking, especially for the lunch-time crowd.

Barton's ideas are a flop at that, Sleiman says. He's also miffed at the idea of the city spending $2.2 million to help SunTrust build a garage.

That money, in his view, is part of the $3.5 million the city promised for Landing parking through previous agreements that fell through.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400904/ron-littlepage/2010-04-22/sleiman-has-stronger-case-landing-parking-issue

It was a bad idea when Peyton's administration proposed it and it was a bad idea when Brown's administration finalized it. Good deal for Parador though.  The other Suntrust owners should send them a turkey for Thanksgiving.

Blaming solely the Mayor is kind of pointless. As you can see, the amendements went through committee, reviewed and approved by council.

I have appreciated Lori Boyer's candidness of council affairs.  I think some feedback from her based on the property selling would be valuable now.

No one in the city Govornment at the time seemed to be able to see what was so obvious that parador was building the garage end of story.  They were just trying to see if they could get anything out of the city because why not.

Quote from: For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A on April 05, 2015, 07:36:06 PM
How much do the developers at for the Trio/Barnett Bank buildings want again?

more than $3.5 million

Quote from: spuwho on April 05, 2015, 07:37:36 PMBlaming solely the Mayor is kind of pointless. As you can see, the amendements went through committee, reviewed and approved by council.

I have appreciated Lori Boyer's candidness of council affairs.  I think some feedback from her based on the property selling would be valuable now.

To be clear, I'm not trying to place the blame on anyone or attempting to make a political statement. Peyton/Brown administration, council, JEDC, the community, etc......bad deal all around.

Quote from: fieldafm on April 05, 2015, 05:44:59 PM

Quote from: stephendare on April 05, 2015, 02:32:24 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on April 05, 2015, 02:30:39 PM
^Like the Brooklyn developments, the garage dates back before the Brown administration.

To illustrate this, look at the original ordinance.  Its 2011.  The year Brown was getting elected.  He didn't take office till afterwards.

Whoa, let's back up here. The entire fiasco happened during the Brown administration. It was well into 2012 when this deal finally went to DDRB and didn't even get sent to Council until 2013.

SEVERAL COJ employees during this time (myself and Doug Skiles were the public voices pushing a better product on this from the beginning) told me that Mayor Brown left no doubt to COJ employees that this garage would need to be built no matter what. They pushed through the elimination of retail and they were the ones that shifted money from Sleiman Enterprises failed request to buy the Enterprise Center parking facility (that was Peyton's last F-U towards Sleiman as he was leaving office) thereby raiding the money that had been set aside to settle a decades long commitment to provide dedicated Landing parking. The mayoral administration also pushed through the elimination of the clawback provision (further screwing over taxpayers). Let's not make the Mayor's office out to be the hero in this situation. They are far from it.

The old Kuhn parking-garage deal was dead long ago. The newest Parador-specific redevelopment deal, the new garage (that couldn't be expanded vertically-like the old proposal) and the new subsidization-scheme was all done during Brown's term. Frankly, trying to absolve the Brown administration from this fiasco is insulting.

Most definitely. The process was not so far along that the whole thing couldn't have been fixed by Brown's administration, but instead, they added even more egregious problems. The buck stops there.

For sake of keeping it classy..it is hard for some to separate personal from political. In all actuality, the wheels were put into motion long before Brown was in office. Sure it would have been nice for him to come in and reverse all the bad deals in progress but as a Mayor freshly in office still getting his feet wet, I can understand how this particular deal may have been either overlooked or deemed not worth stopping what he deemed at the time would be 'progress' in a long unsolved parking issue. Maybe those new political 'friends' he may had to win over to get in office had a few hands in the deal. We do not know. But what I do know is we have the power to demand that retail comes to the garage.
       How do we do that? Simple. We, starting with the people on this board have to overwhelmingly support what is already there nearby. Support the restaurants and retail in the Landing and around Adams, Ocean, Laura streets. Create and show that there is a demand. Investors go where the money is period. Talking does nothing. The action we can control is spending. Do it downtown and stop whining.
      On another note in defense of Brown..I didn't even vote during the election as I was torn between he and Bishop, regardless that's no excuse I know. But what actually will take me to the polls for Brown for sure this go round is the excellent job he has done energizing the sports entertainment scene downtown. I had an absolute blast starting with the ever growing in popularity ArtWalk Wednesday, and ending with the Suns game, then Armada match. I don't believe another candidate at the time would have touched even the little momentum downtown is experiencing now over the last 4yrs. At the end of the day through his faults, and blunders, and incompetence some have expounded upon, I truly believe Brown the person and Brown the Mayor does genuinely have downtown in his best interest. But then, after all at the end of the day..there's politics.

Quote from: Marle Brando on April 06, 2015, 01:17:32 AM
For sake of keeping it classy..it is hard for some to separate personal from political. In all actuality, the wheels were put into motion long before Brown was in office. Sure it would have been nice for him to come in and reverse all the bad deals in progress but as a Mayor freshly in office still getting his feet wet, I can understand how this particular deal may have been either overlooked or deemed not worth stopping what he deemed at the time would be 'progress' in a long unsolved parking issue. Maybe those new political 'friends' he may had to win over to get in office had a few hands in the deal. We do not know. But what I do know is we have the power to demand that retail comes to the garage.
       How do we do that? Simple. We, starting with the people on this board have to overwhelmingly support what is already there nearby. Support the restaurants and retail in the Landing and around Adams, Ocean, Laura streets. Create and show that there is a demand. Investors go where the money is period. Talking does nothing. The action we can control is spending. Do it downtown and stop whining.
      On another note in defense of Brown..I didn't even vote during the election as I was torn between he and Bishop, regardless that's no excuse I know. But what actually will take me to the polls for Brown for sure this go round is the excellent job he has done energizing the sports entertainment scene downtown. I had an absolute blast starting with the ever growing in popularity ArtWalk Wednesday, and ending with the Suns game, then Armada match. I don't believe another candidate at the time would have touched even the little momentum downtown is experiencing now over the last 4yrs. At the end of the day through his faults, and blunders, and incompetence some have expounded upon, I truly believe Brown the person and Brown the Mayor does genuinely have downtown in his best interest. But then, after all at the end of the day..there's politics, the arch nemesis of progression.

Quote from: stephendare on April 06, 2015, 12:55:19 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 05, 2015, 09:41:07 PM

Quote from: fieldafm on April 05, 2015, 05:44:59 PM

Quote from: stephendare on April 05, 2015, 02:32:24 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on April 05, 2015, 02:30:39 PM
^Like the Brooklyn developments, the garage dates back before the Brown administration.

To illustrate this, look at the original ordinance.  Its 2011.  The year Brown was getting elected.  He didn't take office till afterwards.

Whoa, let's back up here. The entire fiasco happened during the Brown administration. It was well into 2012 when this deal finally went to DDRB and didn't even get sent to Council until 2013.

SEVERAL COJ employees during this time (myself and Doug Skiles were the public voices pushing a better product on this from the beginning) told me that Mayor Brown left no doubt to COJ employees that this garage would need to be built no matter what. They pushed through the elimination of retail and they were the ones that shifted money from Sleiman Enterprises failed request to buy the Enterprise Center parking facility (that was Peyton's last F-U towards Sleiman as he was leaving office) thereby raiding the money that had been set aside to settle a decades long commitment to provide dedicated Landing parking. The mayoral administration also pushed through the elimination of the clawback provision (further screwing over taxpayers). Let's not make the Mayor's office out to be the hero in this situation. They are far from it.

The old Kuhn parking-garage deal was dead long ago. The newest Parador-specific redevelopment deal, the new garage (that couldn't be expanded vertically-like the old proposal) and the new subsidization-scheme was all done during Brown's term. Frankly, trying to absolve the Brown administration from this fiasco is insulting.

Most definitely. The process was not so far along that the whole thing couldn't have been fixed by Brown's administration, but instead, they added even more egregious problems. The buck stops there.

meh.  no one is 'absolving' anyone of anything, and there is very little reason to whip yourselves up into an ungainly hysteria about it.

The point was made that this fiasco, like the successful developments on Riverside were started before the Alvin Brown administration.

Unless you have a time machine that can go back and change the inherent truth of that, then Im frankly not sure what you are working yourself up into fits over. ;)

I went back in my time machine and didn't see you taking personal time off work to stand up against this bad deal... So pardon me for my 'ungainly hysteria' when you try to rewrite history. Didn't you take a paid position to work on the Brown campaign?

Barton's idea was to use the money and dedicate about 40% of the garage for the Landing (still a bad idea, but at least the money would have went towards what it was originally earmarked for- solving a DECADES long obligation to the Landing). Barton was then fired by the Mayor. That's when this latest scheme was cooked up. This current boondoggle was way worse than anything proposed before. And the Mayor's office pushed this deal through. I am 100% certain of this, because I was told that by several COJ employees and advised to keep my mouth shut as I was fighting a losing battle because the directive had come straight from the top. Considering I was one of the lone voices against this deal, this is my first hand account of the wheeling and dealings of Parador's taxpayer-subsidized gift. That gift included no retail, no Landing parking, a structure that could not be expanded vertically in the future and no taxpayer protection in the inevitable sale of the building. Believe me, it was a lonely feeling speaking out against this fiasco (and still is). Also, inexplicably Brown's administration failed to bring home a deal to move Advanced Disposal's headquarters to the Suntrust Building (they instead moved to Nocatee, meaning a major homegrown business is now located in St Johns County).

QuoteBut what I do know is we have the power to demand that retail comes to the garage.

With all due respect, 'we' have no power in this regard. Doesn't appear that retail will be coming to the garage now. 

What's really sad is that this is one of the very few Downtown projects that Brown can really put his stamp on, and it's an out and out boondoggle.

Quote from: stephendare on April 06, 2015, 08:35:18 AM

Quote from: fieldafm on April 06, 2015, 05:54:20 AM

Quote from: stephendare on April 06, 2015, 12:55:19 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 05, 2015, 09:41:07 PM

Quote from: fieldafm on April 05, 2015, 05:44:59 PM

Quote from: stephendare on April 05, 2015, 02:32:24 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on April 05, 2015, 02:30:39 PM
^Like the Brooklyn developments, the garage dates back before the Brown administration.

To illustrate this, look at the original ordinance.  Its 2011.  The year Brown was getting elected.  He didn't take office till afterwards.

Whoa, let's back up here. The entire fiasco happened during the Brown administration. It was well into 2012 when this deal finally went to DDRB and didn't even get sent to Council until 2013.

SEVERAL COJ employees during this time (myself and Doug Skiles were the public voices pushing a better product on this from the beginning) told me that Mayor Brown left no doubt to COJ employees that this garage would need to be built no matter what. They pushed through the elimination of retail and they were the ones that shifted money from Sleiman Enterprises failed request to buy the Enterprise Center parking facility (that was Peyton's last F-U towards Sleiman as he was leaving office) thereby raiding the money that had been set aside to settle a decades long commitment to provide dedicated Landing parking. The mayoral administration also pushed through the elimination of the clawback provision (further screwing over taxpayers). Let's not make the Mayor's office out to be the hero in this situation. They are far from it.

The old Kuhn parking-garage deal was dead long ago. The newest Parador-specific redevelopment deal, the new garage (that couldn't be expanded vertically-like the old proposal) and the new subsidization-scheme was all done during Brown's term. Frankly, trying to absolve the Brown administration from this fiasco is insulting.

Most definitely. The process was not so far along that the whole thing couldn't have been fixed by Brown's administration, but instead, they added even more egregious problems. The buck stops there.

meh.  no one is 'absolving' anyone of anything, and there is very little reason to whip yourselves up into an ungainly hysteria about it.

The point was made that this fiasco, like the successful developments on Riverside were started before the Alvin Brown administration.

Unless you have a time machine that can go back and change the inherent truth of that, then Im frankly not sure what you are working yourself up into fits over. ;)

I went back in my time machine and didn't see you taking personal time off work to stand up against this bad deal... So pardon me for my 'ungainly hysteria' when you try to rewrite history. Didn't you take a paid position to work on the Brown campaign?

Barton's idea was to use the money and dedicate about 40% of the garage for the Landing (still a bad idea, but at least the money would have went towards what it was originally earmarked for- solving a DECADES long obligation to the Landing). Barton was then fired by the Mayor. That's when this latest scheme was cooked up. This current boondoggle was way worse than anything proposed before. And the Mayor's office pushed this deal through. I am 100% certain of this, because I was told that by several COJ employees and advised to keep my mouth shut as I was fighting a losing battle because the directive had come straight from the top. Considering I was one of the lone voices against this deal, this is my first hand account of the wheeling and dealings of Parador's taxpayer-subsidized gift. That gift included no retail, no Landing parking, a structure that could not be expanded vertically in the future and no taxpayer protection in the inevitable sale of the building. Believe me, it was a lonely feeling speaking out against this fiasco (and still is). Also, inexplicably Brown's administration failed to bring home a deal to move Advanced Disposal's headquarters to the Suntrust Building (they instead moved to Nocatee, meaning a major homegrown business is now located in St Johns County).

um  mike.   apparently your time machine has a few settings off.

I don't have to take off work to oppose something, because this is what I actually do, and if you would stop fiddling around with your time machine and read back on the posting history, you will remember that you and doug skiles had the full back up of this board at the time.  If you crank that time machine up and go a little further back you might even remember that we've been preaching against the overstock of parking in the downtown since before you actually started posting here, and did the early work showing just how corrupt and badly managed the parking garage situation in our urban core is.

Im not sure why you are so angry about all this, but directing it at me is a little misplaced.  And it still doesn't change the fact that the beginnings of this wholly typical fiasco in the design and implementation of yet another parking garage go back before the Brown Administration.

And for that matter, I don't see how it differs that greatly from any of the parking structures erected under John Delaney or Ed Austin.

If the time machine you've been having such trouble with can manage it, it might tell you that my loft at 47 Duval was torn down in 2001 in order to make way for another fairly useless and mismanaged garage across from the new library.  It still doesn't have ground floor retail, is largely unfilled, not open at night most of the time, and isn't able to be built up, despite the design guidelines put in place by the Downtown Design Review Board.

The same review board that approved the present garage.

Is John Delaney a rat bastard because downtown is owned and mismanaged by a bunch of parking kingpins?  I don't think so.

Again, Im not sure why your anger on this is directed towards me, but Im not the enemy and Im pretty sure that in a competition of 'who hates the parking garage shenanigans more', you would probably lose to me very badly.  If you need me to help out the busted time machine or even just your memory a bit by filling this thread with the (literal) volumes of posts on the subject of parking, parking garages, policy, lack of street connectivity, and the failures of the DDRB, I will be glad to do so.

However.  It doesn't retroactively make Alvin Brown's mayorship begin any sooner.

We can debate bad deals made during Jake Goldbold's, Ed Austin's, Tommy Hazzouri's, John Delaney's and John Peyton's administration in seperate threads. Neither of them had anything to do with this specific deal.

Absconcing this administration from this bad deal because John Peyton and Tony Sleiman had an ongoing family feud that resulted in John Barton (who Brown fired) suggesting alternatives to solving the Landing's parking problem is ridiculous. By the time THIS administration cooked up THIS Parador parking garage deal, Barton was long gone. So, in fact, bringing up names like John Delaney or a building you lived within over 15 years ago in this thread is a straw man's argument.

QuoteIm not sure why your anger on this is directed towards me

It's supremely offensive that you are trying to absolve the current administration from this fiasco.

QuoteNo.  But nice implication there, Mike.

That's not what you told me one night at Three Layers back in 2011 after Brown made the runoff.

So, because I typed too fast and autocorrect changed absolve to absconce-while replacing Ron with John... is further proof in your eyes that the current administration didn't have anything to do with screwing over taxpayers and creating permanent dead space on prime donwtown real estate?

This has indeed turned into a pretty senseless argument.  This:

QuoteBill Type and Number: Ordinance 2014-549

Introducer/Sponsor(s): Council President at the request of the Mayor

Date of Introduction: August 12, 2014

Says it all to me.  While the garage deal was indeed in place before Mayor Brown, it seems like the only good part was removed AT HIS REQUEST.  Shared responsibility at best.   Enriching someone else at the expense of us taxpayers?  Typical and expected.


What is truly sad is we are most likely facing at least another four years of this regardless of which mayoral candidate gets elected.

^Yes, the bottom line is, if Brown had left the previous deal alone, it would have been better than it is. Instead, he ensured that even worse elements were added and we're left with this mess. And this garage is his Brown's one tangible contribution to Downtown.

Quote from: stephendare on April 06, 2015, 11:08:11 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 06, 2015, 10:51:10 AM
^Yes, the bottom line is, if Brown had left the previous deal alone, it would have been better than it is. Instead, he ensured that even worse elements were added and we're left with this mess. And this garage is his Brown's one tangible contribution to Downtown.

Other than empowering citizen led events like One Spark, Friends of Hemming Park and the things that finally started working after 35 years of downtown boondoggles, of course. ;)

Well, now the BS is really getting thick.

Quote from: fieldafm on April 06, 2015, 11:11:59 AM

Quote from: stephendare on April 06, 2015, 11:08:11 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 06, 2015, 10:51:10 AM
^Yes, the bottom line is, if Brown had left the previous deal alone, it would have been better than it is. Instead, he ensured that even worse elements were added and we're left with this mess. And this garage is his Brown's one tangible contribution to Downtown.

Other than empowering citizen led events like One Spark, Friends of Hemming Park and the things that finally started working after 35 years of downtown boondoggles, of course. ;)

Well, now the BS is really getting thick.

Ha! And how can we forget the Jazz Festival he invented and perfected, all by himself?

(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/lif_JazzFestivalPost.jpg)

Quote from: stephendare on April 06, 2015, 11:28:26 AM
lol.  he does have a problem putting his name all over everything.  But empowering citizens to do their own thing downtown is something that many of us on this site actually worked to help make happen, Field included.

Snark aside, pretending that the good things the administration has done were imaginary isn't very convincing.

Under Brown's administration, hosting special events has been harder... not easier. Period. You should probably speak to the people that are actually on the ground doing the work instead of reading the press releases.

QuoteONE Spark was simply not possible during the previous administrations.

Yes, because the City never hosted something like say.... the Super Bowl.

Bottom line, and I'm pretty qualified to make this claim, it was easier to host events under the previous administration.

Quote from: fieldafm on April 06, 2015, 11:47:26 AM

QuoteONE Spark was simply not possible during the previous administrations.

Yes, because the City never hosted something like say.... the Super Bowl.

Bottom line, and I'm pretty qualified to make this claim, it was easier to host events under the previous administration.

Truth.

Quote from: stephendare on April 06, 2015, 12:24:53 PM

Quote from: fieldafm on April 06, 2015, 11:47:26 AM

QuoteONE Spark was simply not possible during the previous administrations.

Yes, because the City never hosted something like say.... the Super Bowl.

Bottom line, and I'm pretty qualified to make this claim, it was easier to host events under the previous administration.

Bottom line.  You are incorrect.

Last time I checked, Superbowl wasn't an ongoing citizen led effort Mike.

Are you sure that you wouldn't like to claim the previous administrations also facilitated special events like the turn of the Millennium?  I mean, without the fabled backup of administrations that you don't personally remember, however would the city have successfully experienced Y2K?  And therefore, you know: Straw man.  Ipso facto. QED.?

You can compare apples to oranges, parse the words however you like, vent at me, call me names, accuse the mayor of screwing the taxpayers or any other hysterical thing that might occur to you today, but it doesn't change the fact that the Brown Administration, for the first time in the long sad failed history of Downtown Redevelopment---has finally allowed for citizens to take ownership of what happens downtown and that has made the difference.

Mike is right on the money. The city is much harder to work with than it has been in a very long time. And as far as city events go, we  actually had a great office of special events for a long time. But then Brown fired them all.

Quote from: strider on April 06, 2015, 10:45:23 AM
This has indeed turned into a pretty senseless argument.  This:

QuoteBill Type and Number: Ordinance 2014-549

Introducer/Sponsor(s): Council President at the request of the Mayor

Date of Introduction: August 12, 2014

Says it all to me.  While the garage deal was indeed in place before Mayor Brown, it seems like the only good part was removed AT HIS REQUEST.  Shared responsibility at best.   Enriching someone else at the expense of us taxpayers?  Typical and expected.


What is truly sad is we are most likely facing at least another four years of this regardless of which mayoral candidate gets elected.

8 more years if the white guy is elected.  Elect Brown and keep it to 4 so in the meantime we can hope and pray that someone who isn't a state politician and actually cares about running the city can run a decent campaign.

Quote from: stephendare on April 06, 2015, 12:39:51 PM
I suppose we have conceded that the Parador Parking misadventure, like the successful developments in Brooklyn actually began before the Brown Administration then?

And while he presided over both, it would be simple minded to solely blame or credit him for either?

Since, you know....that was the original point.

Seems pretty clear to me that the Brown administration took the Parador deal, what was already a bad deal for the City, and made it into an even worse deal.

Quote from: MEGATRON on April 06, 2015, 12:47:16 PM

Quote from: stephendare on April 06, 2015, 12:39:51 PM
I suppose we have conceded that the Parador Parking misadventure, like the successful developments in Brooklyn actually began before the Brown Administration then?

And while he presided over both, it would be simple minded to solely blame or credit him for either?

Since, you know....that was the original point.

Seems pretty clear to me that the Brown administration took the Parador deal, what was already a bad deal for the City, and made it into an even worse deal.

Yeah. Brown inherited a bad deal, and rather than fixing it, or just leaving it alone, he succeeded in making it a terrible one. Unfortunately, it's a pattern.

From a super distance, Brown actually doesn't seem to have a lot of intelligence.  Just going off of brief clips of him speaking, and knowledge of a few decisions he has made.  Like Brown really doesn't seem to have much variation off of a solid average 100 IQ.  Am I out of line for saying this?  Also feels like Brown lets others make decisions for him and he can't manage people's conflicts of interest so weird decisions like this Parador garage fiasco happen (case in point, Stephen's post - even a decent politician can figure out a way to make everyone happy, and a shrewd business oriented mayor can do even more).  Basically, it feels like we have a Joe the Plumber running a city of nearly a million people.

Quote from: stephendare on April 06, 2015, 09:17:32 AM

Quote from: fieldafm on April 06, 2015, 09:11:24 AM
So, because I typed too fast and autocorrect changed absolve to absconce-while replacing Ron with John... is further proof in your eyes that the current administration didn't have anything to do with screwing over taxpayers and creating permanent dead space on prime donwtown real estate?

May i suggest decaf for a few days?  Every now and then I have to take a break from too much coffee. (yes I know this seems unlikely)

Are you sure that this administration didn't actually commit a few ax murders and a random shooting as well Mike?

And are you under the impression that anyone on the forums thinks the garage turned out well or that the Administration couldn't have done a better job?

Because you are arguing like its you vs the volcano on something with which there seems to be general agreement.

Im not sure why having a more nuanced view of the 'hows and whys' is coming across as heresy?

Go ahead, "read Stephen read"..............((fingers begin snapping).

Welp... looks like the Parador garage is taking another step back from ground floor retail soon... Humana is leaving the Suntrust building to go to.... you guessed it, the suburbs!

:(

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=545594

Get caught with an ounce of drugs? Go to jail.

Steal $135,000 from local businesses? Slap on the wrist.

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180201/probation-fine-for-scam-at-downtown-office-tower-judge-orders