Today while leaving Walgreens at Park & King, I notice COJ work crew removing the white striping of a parking space across from Walgreens on the side street. I was curious if the residents complaints are making a difference and the striping will be removed. I spoke w/ a very kind man who is the "Traffic Engineer' for COJ. His area is the complete Duval County lines of 840 square miles. I asked about the removal process. He told me this particular space was being removed along w/ 2 other spaces at bus routes. The 2 bus route parking will only be to eliminate one parking spot in front of bus stop. I asked about the outcry from residents about the striping and what some people are calling "ugly" "not appropriate for historical district" etc. He kinda laughed and said when he first got the order, he knew it would cause an outrage and only wondered how long before people complain. He stated there is NO plans to remove striping at all because it is now the law. He told me the ordinance proposed by Jim Love 2014-617 was approved last October and by law the striped parking will stay. A copy of the meeting notes are below;
THE AUTHORITY OF SECTIONS 316.183 AND 316.189 FLORIDA STATUTES, AND WAIVING SECTION 804.402 (SPEED LIMITS), ORDINANCE CODE, TO REDUCE THE SPEED LIMIT OF CERTAIN ROADWAYS IN COUNCIL DISTRICT 14 FROM 30 MILES PER HOUR TO 15 MILES PER HOUR; DIRECTING THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT TO POST APPROPRIATE SIGNAGE; PROVIDING THAT THE NEW SPEED LIMIT SHALL BECOME EFFECTIVE UPON POSTING; PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE; 9/15/2014 - Read 2nd & Rerefer
REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON RULES: October 20, 2014
Recommend to APPROVE.
AYES - Gaffney, Gulliford, Jones, Joost, Lumb, Redman, Schellenberg, ( 7 )'
By law there is no way to remove or stop this. He did tell me Jim Love had called the department saturday, March 14 to ask that they stopped, but COJ can not. When the ordinance passed in October 2014, the parking stripes were included and is the only way to conform w/ state law. There is no provisions for parking stripes to be just indentions or other ways, I've seen people thought was being done. All the residents and business assisted Councilman Jim Love in making this ordinance and it was approved by City Council. At that time it was clear to everyone what the ordinance said and voted on. I'm hearing so many people who are denying being involved or that they had no idea the stripes would be so large and bold. It is obvious, people knew what was being proposed, voted on and passed.
He said each street w/ striped parking has 14 feet between the lines as is the law. Only a new ordinance proposed and voted on by City Council would change what is happening. The bottom line is this is how it's going to be, ugly or not people gave input & voted for this ordinance.
I have some photos of them removing the lines but as a complete novice, have no idea how to include them. I tried adding an image but failed. :(
WJXT or WJAX, one of the local news casts, who did finally acknowledge that Riverside existed, and did not refer to Park and King as "Westside", did a story on how a JTA bus clipped a car on Post or College Friday night as a result of the lines. All the lines do is create what we already knew back before some bonehead in City Planning worked to make Post and College 2-way, that 1-way is better, more efficient and easier to manuever.
Or remove parking for one side of the street. Or as Stephen would hypothesize, could this be a city conspiracy to have people in Riverside ditch their cars, or face being steamrolled by JTA buses?
Am I the only one who doesn't mind the lines?
Quote from: johnnyliar on March 19, 2015, 08:04:59 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't mind the lines?
Nope, I'm pretty happy the striping and the new reduced 15 mph speed limit signs have been added to the area. I live near College and King and have noticed way fewer instances of cars fully or even partially blocking our driveway since the parking stripes were added, and I think the narrower road area forces cars to drive slower, especially when passing in opposite directions. They may not be 100% historically accurate or aesthetically pleasing but until we get a streetcar line in place or the majority of people start walking, biking, or using horse and buggies to get around, this was probably the best compromise to swing the pendulum back in favor of slower moving pedestrians/bicyclists and away from motor vehicles using College and Post as drag strips. I actually wouldn't mind seeing speed bumps added around the busier intersections too as an extra traffic calming measure to be honest.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 19, 2015, 12:13:29 AM
All the lines do is create what we already knew back before some bonehead in City Planning worked to make Post and College 2-way, that 1-way is better, more efficient and easier to manuever.
Sorry but "better" is a completely subjective term. When it was one-way cars could haul ass down that road and they did. That might be "better" for someone to get to their destination but it may not be "better" for the residents who live on the street who have kids and pets that could run into the street. Its also not "better" for bicyclist and pedestrians. Changing it to one-way help to reduce speeds and calm traffic which in our neighborhood is a good thing. If someone wants to drive like a douche they can take Roosevelt.
That said, I don't know how wide the spaces are but I feel like they could have been about a foot more narrow. Parking lanes can be as narrow as 7' if there is curb and gutter present (it might even be 6').
The delineated parking spaces are one of the recommendations that came out of the COJ-funded and WLA lobbied parking study. I wouldn't be surprised is residential parking passes became approved through ordinance sometime in the future.
Actually don't mind them either. Some of them are clearly stupid, particularly on Lydia St. my understanding is those will be removed (probably shouldn't be there in the first place there). But as a concept, I'm fine with it.
The striped parking place on Lydia across from Walgreens is the one they removed completely yesterday.
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on March 19, 2015, 10:33:51 AM
Quote from: johnnyliar on March 19, 2015, 08:04:59 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't mind the lines?
Nope, I'm pretty happy the striping and the new reduced 15 mph speed limit signs have been added to the area. I live near College and King and have noticed way fewer instances of cars fully or even partially blocking our driveway since the parking stripes were added, and I think the narrower road area forces cars to drive slower, especially when passing in opposite directions. They may not be 100% historically accurate or aesthetically pleasing but until we get a streetcar line in place or the majority of people start walking, biking, or using horse and buggies to get around, this was probably the best compromise to swing the pendulum back in favor of slower moving pedestrians/bicyclists and away from motor vehicles using College and Post as drag strips. I actually wouldn't mind seeing speed bumps added around the busier intersections too as an extra traffic calming measure to be honest.
I'm thirding this. I can't believe people are up in arms about this. Who cares if it makes it harder for 2000 pound murder metal machines? That's the point. Slow down, take your time. You're driving in a neighborhood full of soft, easily destroyed living bodies.
I appreciate the lines
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 19, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
I appreciate the lines
I am going to take some colored sidewalk chalk and color outside the lines just because! :)
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 19, 2015, 12:13:29 AM
WJXT or WJAX, one of the local news casts, who did finally acknowledge that Riverside existed, and did not refer to Park and King as "Westside", did a story on how a JTA bus clipped a car on Post or College Friday night as a result of the lines. All the lines do is create what we already knew back before some bonehead in City Planning worked to make Post and College 2-way, that 1-way is better, more efficient and easier to manuever.
Or remove parking for one side of the street. Or as Stephen would hypothesize, could this be a city conspiracy to have people in Riverside ditch their cars, or face being steamrolled by JTA buses?
I agree about the idea of parking on one side of the street to allow for easier two-way traffic. I used to live in near downtown Dover, Delaware and my street had one-side parking on a two-way street. The neighborhood, near a local college, was pedestrian-friendly and a great attraction for locals.
Count me as someone else who likes the lines and narrowed travel lane. I am for almost anything that slows cars down, but I draw the line at speed bumps. I have a Fiat 500L so I have no problem sliding into an opening to let cars coming the opposite way pass.
QuoteThey may not be 100% historically accurate or aesthetically pleasing but until we get a streetcar line in place
Don't hold your breath. JTA just received a 20+ million dollar grant from the Feds to start their BRT using buses as part of their streetcar plan. Besides, adding a streetcar in the ROW will just create a bottleneck when there is only room for the streetcar.
The JTA buses are going to clip more cars, this is not over by a long shot, because the JTA drivers don't travel at 15 mph, they run red lights all the time and are some of the worst drivers, not using Roosevelt.
You'll never see speed humps on roads that are traveled by JTA. They have a lot deeper pockets and lobbyists than your local neighborhood.
They painted lined spaces on Oak Street between King and James. Incredibly stupid. This block has an even number of single family homes as multifamily apartments and very little off street parking. Like most of the Historic District. Not sure who this was meant to benefit, but it really hurts the people who actually live in the homes and the apartments. Also the owners of the apartment buildings. When tenants ask, "where do I park?", the owners can say, "Good luck with that." How many cars do you think the average 4 unit building has. Minimum of 4, and easy to see 6 or 8. Some of these apartment buildings now have 1 or 2 "legal " spaces for all the tenants to use. And fact is, I owned one of these duplexes which could easily have two couples (with 4 cars) living in it. It has had all the off street parking taken away, except for the one spot in back. Glad I no longer own that place.
Also, I'm 99% certain the owners and residents on the street were given no notice that the parking situation was going to change, or offered any input. Thanks Councilman Love.
I feel you MusicMan but at the same time I am loving the the traffic calming effect.
I appreciate that. Like I said,I'm no longer there but real dumb to take a neighborhood designed in the 1910's and reduce the already inadequate parking in place. That particular block has one commercial building (on the corner at King) and it has plenty of off street parking.
The rent paying and tax paying residents/owners are screwed.
Quote from: MusicMan on March 31, 2015, 09:27:58 PM
Like I said,I'm no longer there but real dumb to take a neighborhood designed in the 1910's and reduce the already inadequate parking in place.
you know what's even dumber....taking a neighborhood designed in the 1910's and trying to accommodate throngs of cars.
I live on Post near King and I think the parking lines are an improvement. However, I think it would be better if they were limited to one side of the street to help with the two way traffic flow. I moved here when Post was one way and it was ridiculous how fast traffic roared through here. That said, I think a bigger problem is the "historic" lighting on King Street. I like it aesthetically but the lights do not properly illuminate the street for drivers. It is very difficult to see pedestrians crossing from Kickbacks to Blind Rabbit or Pele's to Walgreens (and other crossings). I really wish that clearly marked pedestrian walkways had those flags that have been put in place for pedestrians in San Marco (and other cities like West Palm) were put here, to protect pedestrians (who are usually wearing dark clothes, and sometimes inebriated) because they are very difficult to see. More transit options will help with the parking issue. As an Uber driver, I have first hand knowledge of more people using this service to avoid parking hassles and possible DUI's after a night out. As that grows, I think the parking issues will settle out (and hopefully Riverside Trolley will help and expand service). We don't need a speedway on College or Post, and we don't need visitors parking on the right of way or blocking driveways (which has happened). Let's push for traffic calming on these throughways that makes sense and doesn't turn them into bottle necks while pushing for more transit options that eliminate the need for more parking and wider roadways.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 20, 2015, 06:30:12 AM
QuoteThey may not be 100% historically accurate or aesthetically pleasing but until we get a streetcar line in place
Don't hold your breath. JTA just received a 20+ million dollar grant from the Feds to start their BRT using buses as part of their streetcar plan. Besides, adding a streetcar in the ROW will just create a bottleneck when there is only room for the streetcar.
The JTA buses are going to clip more cars, this is not over by a long shot, because the JTA drivers don't travel at 15 mph, they run red lights all the time and are some of the worst drivers, not using Roosevelt.
You'll never see speed humps on roads that are traveled by JTA. They have a lot deeper pockets and lobbyists than your local neighborhood.
+1
I don't know what dirt kart track they hold their hiring fairs at, but JTA drivers are unbelievable. They never use signals, run red lights, cut you off, and the speed limits seem to be taken as purely advisory. Oblivious to the fact that they share the road with other drivers.
QuoteI moved here when Post was one way and it was ridiculous how fast traffic roared through here.
Fast has nothing to do with the weekly ritual of the drivers who bounce off cars as they head down post and college. Those poor souls who live on these streets are FORCED to pull up onto the side of the road to get their cars off the road, in anticipation of the bumper car follies. Next thing we know the city will come around and start ticketing people for moving their cars off the road.
People on Post and College, you are screwed no matter what you do, and JTA will still roll by at speeds of 45-50 mph.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 01, 2015, 11:34:20 PM
QuoteI moved here when Post was one way and it was ridiculous how fast traffic roared through here.
Fast has nothing to do with the weekly ritual of the drivers who bounce off cars as they head down post and college. Those poor souls who live on these streets are FORCED to pull up onto the side of the road to get their cars off the road, in anticipation of the bumper car follies. Next thing we know the city will come around and start ticketing people for moving their cars off the road.
People on Post and College, you are screwed no matter what you do, and JTA will still roll by at speeds of 45-50 mph.
did they used to park on Post & College when they were one-way streets?
Exactly!