Interesting in that they say they have NO MONEY to update the crossings to help eliminate the horn blowing, but they mysteriously found enough dough to take AAF to court.
Per the Palm Beach Post:
Treasure Coast counties pledge $4.1million to fight All Aboard Florida
(https://cmgpbprealtime.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/img_0518.jpg?w=300&h=225)
Commissioners in Indian River and Martin counties voted unanimously today to set aside $4.1 million to fight All Aboard Florida.
Indian River County Commissioners pledged $2.7 million this morning in an effort to keep the express passenger rail from running 32 trains per day on the Florida East Coast Railway tracks.
In a separate vote, Martin County Commissioners this afternoon agreed to pull $1.4 million from the county's reserve accounts to fight the rail project.
Commissioners in both counties did not detail exactly how the money will be used.
In Martin County, Commissioner John Haddox said his motion requesting the funds was intentionally broad. Commissioners will have to sign off again before any of the money is spent, he added.
"That is open-ended intentionally," Haddox said of the motion. "It may be to engage an environmental firm. It may be to do a more in-depth economic study. It may be to engage a lobbyist. It may be to engage in legal action. My motion is intentionally worded to be broad."
In Indian River County, Commissioner Bob Solari said the trains, which will travel up to 110 mph, will "deleteriously" harm Treasure Coast communities.
"We need to do all we can to protect our community," said Solari, who also received permission to write a resolution he hopes will energize all Treasure Coast communities to oppose All Aboard Florida and derail its effort to get $1.75 billion in private activity bonds.
All Aboard Florida released the following statement after the votes:
"By their actions today, the Indian River and Martin County commissions have decided upon a negative course of action regarding their engagement with All Aboard Florida. The company is hopeful that a more positive and productive forum can be found. We remain open to exploring a future station to serve communities in the Treasure Coast, and bring the direct economic benefits of this important new transportation system to area residents and visitors. A good example of a positive dialogue can be found just up the coast. Brevard County has recently undertaken a productive process that could lead to its securing a future station." Lynn Martenstein, VP of Corporate Communications, All Aboard Florida.
QuoteBrevard County has recently undertaken a productive process that could lead to its securing a future station." Lynn Martenstein, VP of Corporate Communications, All Aboard Florida.
I'm sure this comment pisses them off even more.
I bet the communities will be more pissed off once they realize they just pissed away $4.1 million!
Brevard County has more skin to offer in the game when it comes to AAF than the Treasure Coast. In the TC, AAF is strictly a pass through on existing ROW. In Brevard, AAF needs extensive assistance to get their FEC mainline connected to the new Beachline ROW (permitting, zoning, QZ's, crossings). Brevard in turn wants to facilitate tourism access in the area. While nothing explicit has been said thus far, I am sure there is a Port Canaveral to Orlando freight piece lurking in the discussion.
In a sense Brevard and AAF are negotiating with something to offer on both sides of the table. The Treasure Coast wants to offer nothing. Nada. Why would AAF want to talk with them about anything except people armchair quarterbacking their business plan? In AAF's mind, their business plan is theirs and theirs alone.
If the TC had come back with a plan to help fund some kind of noise abatement and work with them on some agreed levels of noise allowed, I am sure AAF would listen. But when the position is to stop it at $4.1 Million of costs, why should they engage?
Spuwho,
I think you hit the nail on the head with your statement:
"While nothing explicit has been said thus far, I am sure there is a Port Canaveral to Orlando freight piece lurking in the discussion."
I know freight to Orlando has always been discussed informally on forums such as this as part of the AAF project, but as reported in the Orlando Business Journal this week, that possibility appears to have taken a step closer to reality:
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2015/02/orlando-international-airport-has-eyes-set-on.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_orlando+%28Orlando+Business+Journal%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Interesting that the GOAA head is now talking of rail freight to his airport now! Just 2 years ago he was saying that freight was incompatible with the "Orlando Experience" that the GOAA was striving to preserve. I wonder what changed his mind? Remember that the Deseret Ranch has the right to build a freight line next to AAF for roughly half the distance along the Beachline. And know that AAF appears to be reality, perhaps Mr. Brown has changed his mind on rail freight access. With CSX not interested in Orlando as they are focused on their new terminal in Polk County, FECR seems to be the intended recipient of his goal. I would imagine that a new spur would be built east of the airport. Maybe they would use the existing OUC railroad ROW as a connection at the point where the Beachline presently crosses it?
This kind of came out of the blue as I have never heard the GOAA ever before talk of developing a rail freight terminal on airport property before this week. Any thoughts?
Quote from: Brian_Tampa on February 22, 2015, 09:01:02 PM
Spuwho,
I think you hit the nail on the head with your statement:
"While nothing explicit has been said thus far, I am sure there is a Port Canaveral to Orlando freight piece lurking in the discussion."
I know freight to Orlando has always been discussed informally on forums such as this as part of the AAF project, but as reported in the Orlando Business Journal this week, that possibility appears to have taken a step closer to reality:
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2015/02/orlando-international-airport-has-eyes-set-on.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_orlando+%28Orlando+Business+Journal%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Interesting that the GOAA head is now talking of rail freight to his airport now! Just 2 years ago he was saying that freight was incompatible with the "Orlando Experience" that the GOAA was striving to preserve. I wonder what changed his mind? Remember that the Deseret Ranch has the right to build a freight line next to AAF for roughly half the distance along the Beachline. And know that AAF appears to be reality, perhaps Mr. Brown has changed his mind on rail freight access. With CSX not interested in Orlando as they are focused on their new terminal in Polk County, FECR seems to be the intended recipient of his goal. I would imagine that a new spur would be built east of the airport. Maybe they would use the existing OUC railroad ROW as a connection at the point where the Beachline presently crosses it?
This kind of came out of the blue as I have never heard the GOAA ever before talk of developing a rail freight terminal on airport property before this week. Any thoughts?
The understanding of rail to air in the freight business is misunderstood. While they can't transfer 1 to 1 without some kind of repackage, when you put it in terms of global logistics, it tends to make more sense. FEC is investing big in their Hialeah Logistics Center in prep for the post Panamax container ships coming in. There are a couple more logistics firms aligning near Port Canaveral in Cocoa.
I could easily see an operation where FEC, UPS, FedEx and even USPS arrange to have a baggage section of an AAF train to handle express product delivery to MCO where it then flies out. MCO is already a UPS regional hub for express delivery. This would be no different than what many do with Southwest Airlines. USPS uses them extensively for their Express Mail operation. On the flip side, I can see UPS using the other way to get express packages from MCO to Miami without having to use trucks over a tollroad.
With AAF running 16 trains a day each way, they could easily get more express traffic in and out of Miami than trucks.
I know that everything I express into Jax with UPS has to go through Orlando. What if AAF ran 8 trains a day between Jax and MCO? That would be a lot of trucks off the road and a great revenue source for AAF.
I don't think it will be as blatant as what Ed Ellis did with Amtrak with express freight trailers hanging off the back of every passenger train. But there is money to be made in allocating space for express services like this.
Quote from: spuwho on February 22, 2015, 09:32:59 PM
Quote from: Brian_Tampa on February 22, 2015, 09:01:02 PM
Spuwho,
I think you hit the nail on the head with your statement:
"While nothing explicit has been said thus far, I am sure there is a Port Canaveral to Orlando freight piece lurking in the discussion."
I know freight to Orlando has always been discussed informally on forums such as this as part of the AAF project, but as reported in the Orlando Business Journal this week, that possibility appears to have taken a step closer to reality:
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2015/02/orlando-international-airport-has-eyes-set-on.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_orlando+%28Orlando+Business+Journal%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Interesting that the GOAA head is now talking of rail freight to his airport now! Just 2 years ago he was saying that freight was incompatible with the "Orlando Experience" that the GOAA was striving to preserve. I wonder what changed his mind? Remember that the Deseret Ranch has the right to build a freight line next to AAF for roughly half the distance along the Beachline. And know that AAF appears to be reality, perhaps Mr. Brown has changed his mind on rail freight access. With CSX not interested in Orlando as they are focused on their new terminal in Polk County, FECR seems to be the intended recipient of his goal. I would imagine that a new spur would be built east of the airport. Maybe they would use the existing OUC railroad ROW as a connection at the point where the Beachline presently crosses it?
This kind of came out of the blue as I have never heard the GOAA ever before talk of developing a rail freight terminal on airport property before this week. Any thoughts?
The understanding of rail to air in the freight business is misunderstood. While they can't transfer 1 to 1 without some kind of repackage, when you put it in terms of global logistics, it tends to make more sense. FEC is investing big in their Hialeah Logistics Center in prep for the post Panamax container ships coming in. There are a couple more logistics firms aligning near Port Canaveral in Cocoa.
I could easily see an operation where FEC, UPS, FedEx and even USPS arrange to have a baggage section of an AAF train to handle express product delivery to MCO where it then flies out. MCO is already a UPS regional hub for express delivery. This would be no different than what many do with Southwest Airlines. USPS uses them extensively for their Express Mail operation. On the flip side, I can see UPS using the other way to get express packages from MCO to Miami without having to use trucks over a tollroad.
With AAF running 16 trains a day each way, they could easily get more express traffic in and out of Miami than trucks.
I know that everything I express into Jax with UPS has to go through Orlando. What if AAF ran 8 trains a day between Jax and MCO? That would be a lot of trucks off the road and a great revenue source for AAF.
I don't think it will be as blatant as what Ed Ellis did with Amtrak with express freight trailers hanging off the back of every passenger train. But there is money to be made in allocating space for express services like this.
My feeling is that this will involve FECR. It won't be AAF due to regulations and rulings by STB and others. And why would AAF mix freight into their business model? It makes sense that FECR would be an operator over the AAF trackage. I can see FECR running a nightly intermodal train when AAF isn't running after midnight. Remember that AAF trains will be fixed in consist. A locomotive at each end so no chance of taking apart the train like Amtrak did back in the 1990s.
I think this will happen as long as FECR can route the freight trains away from the airport passenger terminals. GOAA will never allow freight trains to pass through their terminal areas. The big question will be where on the airport property will the new terminal be located. When that is announced, then we will know how the rest will fall into place. My guess is that it will be along OUC track on the southeast side of the airport.
Per the Palm Beach Post:
County to sue federal DOT over All Aboard Florida money
Indian River County Commissioners voted to pursue a potential lawsuit against the US Department of Transportation challenging $1.75 billion in private activity bonds approved for All Aboard Florida.
The DOT provisionally approved the tax exempt bonds for use in building the express passenger rail from Miami to Orlando. All Aboard Florida is awaiting a final approval from the Florida Development Finance Corp. to move forward with marketing the bonds.
All Aboard Florida hopes to use the bonds to replace or supplement a Federal Railroad Administration loan that is still pending approval.
All Aboard Florida officials said today they don't comment on possible litigation.
DOT officials had no comment on the pending suit.
Brent Hanlon, treasurer of Citizens Against Rail Expansion, or CARE FL, one of All Aboard Florida's most vocal critics, praised Indian River County commissioners this afternoon. Hanlon said CARE, which has pledged to file suit to block the rail project, will evaluate whether to join the litigation filed by Indian River County.
"CARE FL applauds Indian River County for taking this important legal step forward on behalf of its residents," Hanlon said in a statement released by the group. "As you know CARE FL has clearly stated its intent to file a suit that will focus on a "shoddy" Federal environmental, health and safety draft report from the Federal Railroad Administration.
"We do hope St. Lucie and Martin Counties and other government entities will choose to join Indian River County and take bold steps in the right direction on behalf of the residents of all these impacted communities," Hanlon continued. "We are going to evaluate joining the Indian River County suit, or bring additional related legal claims in the near future. "
As expected........
What the lawsuit neglects is that the bond approvals are all contingent on AAF passing the environmental review. If the review and the report aren't complete and hasn't been issued by the FRA, how can they file a suit and say its "arbitrary, capricious, and an abuse of discretion" when the needed discretion isn't even finished yet?
If the EIS comes out clean on June 29th, and the Florida Finance Authority approves the bonds on June 30th, then they have met the letter of the law and the PAB's can be issued.
A solid Vegas bet would put good money that an injunction on the bond issuance will be filed in federal court on June 30th. Let the lawyers begin!
Per Palm Beach Post:
Federal lawsuit challenges All Aboard Florida plan
Indian River County filed a lawsuit Tuesday in federal court challenging the U.S. Department of Transportation's approval of $1.75 billion in tax exempt bonds for All Aboard Florida.
The 44-page lawsuit says the approval of the bonds was "plainly unlawful" because the environmental and historical impact of the express passenger rail project has yet to be given a final determination.
All Aboard Florida plans to run 32 passenger trains per day on the Florida East Coast Railway from Miami to Orlando.
The lawsuit is the first from the Treasure Coast, which is vehemently opposing the passenger rail. While the project plans stations in Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach, no Treasure Coast stops are planned at this point.
Residents are concerned about the increase in noise, traffic and safety hazards that trains traveling up to 110 mph will cause to their communities, including historic downtowns.
"The project, as proposed, would degrade the quality of life in the county, harm the tourism that is vital to its economy and tax revenues, adversely affect socioeconomic conditions along the railroad tracks, degrade the experience and ecological conditions at county-owned conservation areas, and result in may other environmental harms to the plaintiff's discussed below," the lawsuit says.
Tuesday's complaint was filed by Indian River County, Indian River County Emergency Services District, and Old Vero Ice Age Sites Committee. It names Under Secretary of Transportation for Policy of U.S. Department of Transportation Peter M. Rogoff and the U. S. Department of Transportation as defendants.
In December, the U.S. Department of transportation provisionally approved the $1.75 billion in private activity bonds on the condition they be issued before July 1 and following the final environmental impact statement.
"The project approval should be declared not in accordance with law, arbitrary, capricious, and an abuse of discretion, and should be vacated and annulled as being in violation of National Environmental Policy Act," the lawsuit says.
All Aboard Florida also needs approval from the Florida Development Finance Corp., which acts and conduit issuer for the bonds. The board of the FDFC has been paralyzed this year following the resignation of its chairman and lack of members. Gov. Rick Scott on Friday made three appointments to the board, enough for a quorum and vote on the bonds.
Does anybody, Ock ?, have a count of the number of trains that passed during the heyday of train travel along this route? I would venture a guess that it is not much different.