Cantrell & Morgan representing the Skinner Family Holdings has announced a new development at the St John's Town Center.
http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544887 (http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544887)
http://www.cantrellmorgan.com/new-developmentcoming-soon-town-center-in-jacksonville-fl/ (http://www.cantrellmorgan.com/new-developmentcoming-soon-town-center-in-jacksonville-fl/)
(http://www.cantrellmorgan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/SJTC_PGP_SitePlan_TC4_2-800x484.png)
(http://www.cantrellmorgan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/SJTC_PGP_Aerial-628x380.png)
(http://www.cantrellmorgan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/SJTC_PGP_SitePlan-800x484.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7436/16337546517_5a753e1646_c.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7436/15900887944_abca699190_c.jpg)
Wow. Very adventurous. I love the initial layout and design. Given the economics of the land as well the estimated fancier than stucco build costs, I would venture to say rents are going to have to be lofty.
I would be surprised if this design doesn't get several modifications and we end up seeing more in the way of outparcel sales vs. the amount of multistory in-line retail space proposed here.
Either way, would be very excited to see this come to fruition.
That area is booooooooming! Its a little overwhelming lol
If the development keeps the density proposed, I'll be a fan. I don't think that's how the project will end up.
No anchor tenants announced. SJTC is already somewhat overserved. My concern with this proposal is the stress it will bring to the JTB/Gate Parkway ramps, notably during holidays.
I am trying to think what greater Jax is missing in retail that is underserved enough to warrant such a large buildout.
The hotel mix is great. I would guess that Chase would move out of thier strip mall setting into a standalone bulding.
With Belk going to Atlantic North and Macy's a non player the only thing left would be the cannibalization of nearby strip malls in a more traveled retail zone.
Sales per sq ft at SJTC is creating some unusual land valuations. This all looks great, but I am concerned about what is going to lease all the new space.
^The site plan doesn't include the type of space an anchor the size of a Belk or Macy's would need. This looks like a mix of restaurants, specialty retail, a few big boxes and office space. Sort of like the Metropolitan near Uptown Charlotte....
(http://www.charlottepenthouses.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/themet.jpg)
Oh man, that traffic.
Urban Home & Garden, Restoration Hardware, Crate & Barrel.
The Container Store, Macy's Home Store, Amazon Brick & Mortar (j/k)....
Quote from: blizz01 on February 14, 2015, 06:37:12 PM
The Container Store, Macy's Home Store, Amazon Brick & Mortar (j/k)....
So Lake, what sort of intersection improvements are proposed to handle the increase in traffic for these developments? Gate Parkway and Town Center Parkway are COJ roads, and the developer should be paying Mobility Fees, right? Or is there some poorly-negotiated agreement/exemption/deal that Skinner has for the SJTC?
I can't see how adding any traffic demand to these intersections without improvements can happen. It's not even a holiday shopping problem anymore. It's 12 months a year now, and it's clearly going to get worse.
I believe this particular area is excluded from paying a mobility fee. It is a Transportation Management Area that pays concurrency fees (which are actually higher than mobility fees). Essentially, most of these monies go to payback the Skinner Family for roads, sidewalks, etc that were constructed a few decades ago. With that said, don't expect much change in the roadway network or its intersections any time soon. Just get used to sitting in traffic.
maybe if the developments suffer enough from the traffic, then the tenants or owners will agree to fund some types of improvements. money talks..
from what I hear, the developers are considering a multi-use path through the site....I doubt that will have much effect on their required concurrency mitigation though
Preferred Growth Properties is one of the three business unit of Books-A-Million, along with traditional book retailing and online retailing. The real estate business owns, develops and leases commercial retail estate.
That's one tenant.
They just bought Mandarin South at San Jose and Loretto and are redeveloping it. So if you need to benchmark them, they already have another parcel under development.
Quote from: spuwho on February 15, 2015, 11:12:52 PM
Preferred Growth Properties is one of the three business unit of Books-A-Million, along with traditional book retailing and online retailing. The real estate business owns, develops and leases commercial retail estate.
That's one tenant.
They just bought Mandarin South at San Jose and Loretto and are redeveloping it. So if you need to benchmark them, they already have another parcel under development.
Nothing to date had been done at Mandarin South.
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 15, 2015, 09:55:40 PM
from what I hear, the developers are considering a multi-use path through the site....I doubt that will have much effect on their required concurrency mitigation though
Such a path would most likely get a lot of usage, especially by UNF students. The Town Center is a popular destination for them.
Such a path would only be on the development's property. UNF would still be a few miles east.
Exiting JTB onto Gate Parkway is an absolute nightmare at almost any time of day. With no changes planned, I cannot imagine how much worse it will be.
I do not go to the SJTC much, but when I do I take the other entrance from the UNF side.
Apparently someone got pretty upset with the local coverage. Cantrell & Morgan have pulled down any mention of the project. Preferred Growth Properties and Books A Million aren't returning calls.
Chip Skinner himself confirmed it was under contract to Karen Mathis at the Record, so I am not sure why the project is going back under the sheets.
The reporting on this proposed development went negative on WOKV this morning. Annaleise Delgado reported on potential traffic issues.
Quote from: spuwho on February 17, 2015, 08:49:48 AM
The reporting on this proposed development went negative on WOKV this morning. Annaleise Delgado reported on potential traffic issues.
I don't see how anybody can think otherwise. It is such a mess already.
As far as future roadway projects in the area go, FDOT will begin work on their next tolled Express Lane project on I-295, from JTB to SR 9B, in a year or so. This project also extends along JTB from Gate Parkway and Kernan interchanges. More traffic fun on the way!
Quote from: thelakelander on February 17, 2015, 10:18:48 AM
As far as future roadway projects in the area go, FDOT will begin work on their next tolled Express Lane project on I-295, from JTB to SR 9B, in a year or so. This project also extends along JTB from Gate Parkway and Kernan interchanges. More traffic fun on the way!
FDOT is currently installing the supporting infrastructure for the tolling lanes now. Fiber and electrical.
Quote from: pierre on February 17, 2015, 09:20:03 AM
Quote from: spuwho on February 17, 2015, 08:49:48 AM
The reporting on this proposed development went negative on WOKV this morning. Annaleise Delgado reported on potential traffic issues.
I don't see how anybody can think otherwise. It is such a mess already.
The issue is that SJTC only has 2 primary ingress and egress points. This worked great for Ben Carter becuase he was able to "back up" the overall site plan into the NW quadrant of the JTB/295 interchange. Most modern regional retail centers have circumferential ingress/egress points to facilitate traffic flow.
Now that it has been built, it would be interesting to benchmark current traffic flows against what the planners had calculated back in 2004.
Their proposed transportation improvements....
(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/lead_photo_wide/web_TownCenter_intersection.jpg)
http://jacksonville.com/business/2015-03-02/story/better-traffic-flow-envisioned-st-johns-town-center
^ at a minimum, I would like to see the median on Town Center Parkway extended out through the crosswalks....thereby providing another refuge for pedestrians crossing the larger intersections.
The St. Johns Town Center has been open for TEN YEARS this month.
Does that seem crazy to anyone else?
Yeah doesn't seem that long. I've only been there twice.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 03, 2015, 08:09:55 AM
Their proposed transportation improvements....
(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/lead_photo_wide/web_TownCenter_intersection.jpg)
http://jacksonville.com/business/2015-03-02/story/better-traffic-flow-envisioned-st-johns-town-center
That's not really any different from what they have now. There is currently two right turn lanes from Gate (NB) onto Town Center Pkwy (although one is not channalized). All they are really doing is adding an additional through lane on TCP. This will do nothing to address the horrible merge issue coming off of JTB onto Gate Parkway for vehicles trying to turn right onto TCP which is the major malfunction with that area.
Quote from: cline on March 03, 2015, 09:38:13 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 03, 2015, 08:09:55 AM
Their proposed transportation improvements....
(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/lead_photo_wide/web_TownCenter_intersection.jpg)
http://jacksonville.com/business/2015-03-02/story/better-traffic-flow-envisioned-st-johns-town-center
That's not really any different from what they have now. There is currently two right turn lanes from Gate (NB) onto Town Center Pkwy (although one is not channalized). All they are really doing is adding an additional through lane on TCP. This will do nothing to address the horrible merge issue coming off of JTB onto Gate Parkway for vehicles trying to turn right onto TCP which is the major malfunction with that area.
^ good point....here's another issue...currently there is nothing on the north side of Town Center Pkwy so the right turn lane onto it can be free flow without too many weaving problems. This development will now lead to weaving issues for folks turning right and then left, or left and then right. The "solution" will be to eliminate the free flow right.
Modify message
I don't see this as much of an improvement either.
There was talk a few years ago of eliminating the light at the intersection of Gate Pwy and Costco. I think that would have helped but doesnt appear to be on the table any longer.
Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.
There is already an agricultural underpass there.
Quote from: spuwho on March 03, 2015, 04:14:35 PM
Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.
There is already an agricultural underpass there.
That tunnel is not wide enough to fit more than two cars side by side... plus, to get to that tunnel requires a road to be built across several retention ponds and through private property (namely parking lots).
Town Center ingress/egress points are what they are. That ship sailed about 14 years ago.
Quote from: fieldafm on March 03, 2015, 04:42:27 PM
Quote from: spuwho on March 03, 2015, 04:14:35 PM
Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.
There is already an agricultural underpass there.
That tunnel is not wide enough to fit more than two cars side by side... plus, to get to that tunnel requires a road to be built across several retention ponds and through private property (namely parking lots).
Town Center ingress/egress points are what they are. That ship sailed about 14 years ago.
The Ag tunnel would have to be re-purposed, re-configured, I get that, I was just saying there is already an underpass. Drainage ponds have never been an obstacle in this town.
It's still possible to build a TC Loop that starts at St Johns Bluff and TC Parkway, circles around behind the development and connects with Big Island Drive. This would drive most of the Town Center "front end" traffic that all enter up front, to come around to reach Nordstrom, Dick's, etc. from the other side.
Right now, that purpose is being fulfilled by the cargo/fire ROW behind Target, Old Navy, Staples. There was a JSO officer planted back there to catch those in a hurry last week. I am just waiting for a head on with 2 cars coming around that blind corner behind Target.
Quote from: spuwho on March 03, 2015, 08:10:22 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on March 03, 2015, 04:42:27 PM
Quote from: spuwho on March 03, 2015, 04:14:35 PM
Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.
There is already an agricultural underpass there.
That tunnel is not wide enough to fit more than two cars side by side... plus, to get to that tunnel requires a road to be built across several retention ponds and through private property (namely parking lots).
Town Center ingress/egress points are what they are. That ship sailed about 14 years ago.
The Ag tunnel would have to be re-purposed, re-configured, I get that, I was just saying there is already an underpass. Drainage ponds have never been an obstacle in this town.
It's still possible to build a TC Loop that starts at St Johns Bluff and TC Parkway, circles around behind the development and connects with Big Island Drive. This would drive most of the Town Center "front end" traffic that all enter up front, to come around to reach Nordstrom, Dick's, etc. from the other side.
Right now, that purpose is being fulfilled by the cargo/fire ROW behind Target, Old Navy, Staples. There was a JSO officer planted back there to catch those in a hurry last week. I am just waiting for a head on with 2 cars coming around that blind corner behind Target.
Not happening in the next 10 years. Neither FHWA nor FDOT can/will spend money to fix an off system problem like this.
It's not FDOT's fault or problem. It's COJ, the Skinners, and the consultant(s) who laid out the initial concepts.
I'd love to the see the traffic modeling performed for the Town Center. I don't believe they even seriously considered how traffic would flow in/our/around the development.
Sad, frankly.
Sad indeed. Those local streets are a huge mess and an extra right turn lane isn't going to do much.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 05, 2015, 08:50:37 PM
Sad indeed. Those local streets are a huge mess and an extra right turn lane isn't going to do much.
Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Remove the Costco light. Sorry Bonos and the adjacent apartments. Gate and TCP should be a 4 way intersection. Maybe the Skinners got greedy when they sold the parcel to the gas station (Shell?)
The loop concept as someone mentioned would have likely worked well. Hell, maybe a grid would have worked.
Also, FDOT is proposing to widen the WB off ramp to 2 lanes (2 lane option, actually). It'll help the Gate SPUI, but doesn't do much for Gate north of JTB.
Whatever happened to the plan to eliminate the Costco light?
Quote from: thelakelander on March 05, 2015, 09:14:20 PM
Whatever happened to the plan to eliminate the Costco light?
Scrapped, they did readjust traffic flow behind the Shell (and added even more sidewalks to nowhere).
I was also told many years ago from both the public and private side, that a grid system was at one point discussed during conceptual review.
Quote from: southsider1015 on March 05, 2015, 08:29:40 PM
Quote from: spuwho on March 03, 2015, 08:10:22 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on March 03, 2015, 04:42:27 PM
Quote from: spuwho on March 03, 2015, 04:14:35 PM
Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.
There is already an agricultural underpass there.
That tunnel is not wide enough to fit more than two cars side by side... plus, to get to that tunnel requires a road to be built across several retention ponds and through private property (namely parking lots).
Town Center ingress/egress points are what they are. That ship sailed about 14 years ago.
The Ag tunnel would have to be re-purposed, re-configured, I get that, I was just saying there is already an underpass. Drainage ponds have never been an obstacle in this town.
It's still possible to build a TC Loop that starts at St Johns Bluff and TC Parkway, circles around behind the development and connects with Big Island Drive. This would drive most of the Town Center "front end" traffic that all enter up front, to come around to reach Nordstrom, Dick's, etc. from the other side.
Right now, that purpose is being fulfilled by the cargo/fire ROW behind Target, Old Navy, Staples. There was a JSO officer planted back there to catch those in a hurry last week. I am just waiting for a head on with 2 cars coming around that blind corner behind Target.
Not happening in the next 10 years. Neither FHWA nor FDOT can/will spend money to fix an off system problem like this.
actually stuff like this happens all the time in other parts of Florida. And it can happen here too. For example, take a look what FDOT will be doing off-system as part of the I-95 Fuller Warren project.
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 05, 2015, 09:29:43 PM
Quote from: southsider1015 on March 05, 2015, 08:29:40 PM
Quote from: spuwho on March 03, 2015, 08:10:22 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on March 03, 2015, 04:42:27 PM
Quote from: spuwho on March 03, 2015, 04:14:35 PM
Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.
There is already an agricultural underpass there.
That tunnel is not wide enough to fit more than two cars side by side... plus, to get to that tunnel requires a road to be built across several retention ponds and through private property (namely parking lots).
Town Center ingress/egress points are what they are. That ship sailed about 14 years ago.
The Ag tunnel would have to be re-purposed, re-configured, I get that, I was just saying there is already an underpass. Drainage ponds have never been an obstacle in this town.
It's still possible to build a TC Loop that starts at St Johns Bluff and TC Parkway, circles around behind the development and connects with Big Island Drive. This would drive most of the Town Center "front end" traffic that all enter up front, to come around to reach Nordstrom, Dick's, etc. from the other side.
Right now, that purpose is being fulfilled by the cargo/fire ROW behind Target, Old Navy, Staples. There was a JSO officer planted back there to catch those in a hurry last week. I am just waiting for a head on with 2 cars coming around that blind corner behind Target.
Not happening in the next 10 years. Neither FHWA nor FDOT can/will spend money to fix an off system problem like this.
actually stuff like this happens all the time in other parts of Florida. And it can happen here too. For example, take a look what FDOT will be doing off-system as part of the I-95 Fuller Warren project.
What, the multiuse path on I-95? Or the system interchange? Pretty sure it's all within FDOT ROW.
Your loop idea might be possible, but the conversation should involved COJ, not FDOT.
The Ag tunnel? What, all 20 feet of it? Couldn't even fit a single 15 foot lane through it, with 2.5 ft shoulders? No. Never putting traffic through it.
Quote from: cline on March 03, 2015, 09:38:13 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 03, 2015, 08:09:55 AM
Their proposed transportation improvements....
(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/lead_photo_wide/web_TownCenter_intersection.jpg)
http://jacksonville.com/business/2015-03-02/story/better-traffic-flow-envisioned-st-johns-town-center
That's not really any different from what they have now. There is currently two right turn lanes from Gate (NB) onto Town Center Pkwy (although one is not channalized). All they are really doing is adding an additional through lane on TCP. This will do nothing to address the horrible merge issue coming off of JTB onto Gate Parkway for vehicles trying to turn right onto TCP which is the major malfunction with that area.
So where does the 4th lane drop on TCP, just past the first light? So, what, another 200-300 feet?
There's wayyyy too many lights on TCP. It's too obvious that they don't traffic on TCP flowing too efficiently. They think shoppers will shop more if they can't leave. They can charge higher lease rates because just about every parcel has an signalized intersection with dedicated lefts and rights. It's a retail stores dream, and a freakin nightmare for shoppers.
Quote from: southsider1015 on March 05, 2015, 11:19:04 PM
What, the multiuse path on I-95? Or the system interchange? Pretty sure it's all within FDOT ROW.
^He's probably talking about the $200k being given to the city to convert College Street, back to a street with residential character. Before the replacement of the Fuller Warren back in the late 1990s/early 2000s, there was an interchange at College Street.
http://www.10and95.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/1120150226PublicInformationMeetingHandout11x17.pdf
Quote from: thelakelander on March 05, 2015, 11:39:44 PM
Quote from: southsider1015 on March 05, 2015, 11:19:04 PM
What, the multiuse path on I-95? Or the system interchange? Pretty sure it's all within FDOT ROW.
^He's probably talking about the $200k being given to the city to convert College Street, back to a street with residential character. Before the replacement of the Fuller Warren back in the late 1990s/early 2000s, there was an interchange at College Street.
http://www.10and95.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/1120150226PublicInformationMeetingHandout11x17.pdf
I have zero faith that the City can and will use the money correctly, effectively, or efficiently.
Zero.
Quote from: southsider1015 on March 06, 2015, 06:40:57 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 05, 2015, 11:39:44 PM
Quote from: southsider1015 on March 05, 2015, 11:19:04 PM
What, the multiuse path on I-95? Or the system interchange? Pretty sure it's all within FDOT ROW.
^He's probably talking about the $200k being given to the city to convert College Street, back to a street with residential character. Before the replacement of the Fuller Warren back in the late 1990s/early 2000s, there was an interchange at College Street.
http://www.10and95.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/1120150226PublicInformationMeetingHandout11x17.pdf
I have zero faith that the City can and will use the money correctly, effectively, or efficiently.
Zero.
Yes, because FDOT has really been the hero in Brooklyn and Riverside over the last decade. Forrest Street turned out so well ::)
Quote from: fieldafm on March 06, 2015, 07:57:50 AM
Quote from: southsider1015 on March 06, 2015, 06:40:57 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 05, 2015, 11:39:44 PM
Quote from: southsider1015 on March 05, 2015, 11:19:04 PM
What, the multiuse path on I-95? Or the system interchange? Pretty sure it's all within FDOT ROW.
^He's probably talking about the $200k being given to the city to convert College Street, back to a street with residential character. Before the replacement of the Fuller Warren back in the late 1990s/early 2000s, there was an interchange at College Street.
http://www.10and95.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/1120150226PublicInformationMeetingHandout11x17.pdf
I have zero faith that the City can and will use the money correctly, effectively, or efficiently.
Zero.
Yes, because FDOT has really been the hero in Brooklyn and Riverside over the last decade. Forrest Street turned out so well ::)
It has been for the roads it's responsible for. Can't say the same for any COJ roads.
Quote from: southsider1015 on March 06, 2015, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on March 06, 2015, 07:57:50 AM
Quote from: southsider1015 on March 06, 2015, 06:40:57 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 05, 2015, 11:39:44 PM
Quote from: southsider1015 on March 05, 2015, 11:19:04 PM
What, the multiuse path on I-95? Or the system interchange? Pretty sure it's all within FDOT ROW.
^He's probably talking about the $200k being given to the city to convert College Street, back to a street with residential character. Before the replacement of the Fuller Warren back in the late 1990s/early 2000s, there was an interchange at College Street.
http://www.10and95.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/1120150226PublicInformationMeetingHandout11x17.pdf
I have zero faith that the City can and will use the money correctly, effectively, or efficiently.
Zero.
Yes, because FDOT has really been the hero in Brooklyn and Riverside over the last decade. Forrest Street turned out so well ::)
It has been for the roads it's responsible for. Can't say the same for any COJ roads.
That example actually was something that the FDOT shoved down our throats despite the overwhelming objections of the neighborhood. In fact, the Downtown Development Authority even went so far as to hire an outside firm to counteract the North-Korea style boulevards and cul-de-sacs that FDOT built in an urban neighborhood.. and low and behold, today's private landowners and neighbors are trying to figure out how to unscrew that FDOT lightbulb that doesn't at all fit in our urban lamp that is finally starting to light up.
^A decade later, that one is pretty funny. We ended demolishing blocks of buildings to make room for one of the most expensive roadway widening projects in the city's history. Now, it's not a FDOT street anymore and we're exploring ways to make it shrink it back down to a walkable scale.
Yeah, that's a pretty tough one to rationalize FDOT's decisions on. A hugely expensive project that caused as many problems as it solved. The success of the road project can probably be gauged by the fact that everyone wants to change them now that the road is out of FDOT's hands.
New retail, housing coming to St. Johns Town CenterQuoteAnother development, called Town Center Exchange, is proposed near St. Johns Town Center that would generate more multifamily, commercial and hotel space.
Town Center Exchange will yield about 35.7 acres for development across Town Center Parkway from the open-air shopping center.
As proposed, the project will include up to 200,000 square feet of enclosed retail and commercial uses, up to 100,000 square feet of office space, up to 200 hotel rooms and up to 400 apartments and 40 townhouses.
Read more at: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546120
More on the "Town Center Promenade"
Per
Jax Daily Record:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546935 (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546935)
QuoteCore Property Capital LLC's plans for its 30-acre development near Town Center might be adjustable, but marketing materials online show it's now called Town Center Promenade.
It fronts Town Center Parkway opposite the St. Johns Town Center.
A draft site plan of the project, earlier referred to as Town Center Exchange, show an almost 18,000-square-foot grocery store; a 42,250-square-foot fitness center; three standalone restaurants from 3,125 to 7,000 square feet; a 4,500-square-foot branch bank; an almost 8,000-square-foot building with a restaurant and retail space; and an almost 6,000-square-foot structure with a coffee shop and retail space.
Plans also show 335 apartments units among four buildings and another acre for retail development.
A vice president of the Atlanta-based developer said in September that Core Property Capital would develop the apartments, which front a lake.
The 2-acre site for a proposed 123-room hotel also fronts the lake.
The Promenade marketing materials say the 30-acre mixed-use development would consist of about 100,000 square feet of restaurant and retail space, 350 multifamily units and a 150-room hotel.
The Shopping Center Group is marketing the remaining sites. A marketing flier shows 10 lots in size from less than an acre to more than 5 acres. They are available as ground leases and build-to-suits, with one for sale.
Tom Mundy with The Shopping Center Group represents the Town Center Promenade. Mundy and Core Property Capital representatives have not returned telephone calls this week.
Core Property Capital paid $23.5 million last week to buy 69 acres west along Town Center Parkway from Midtown Parkway north to Brightman Boulevard. Of that, 30 acres can be developed.
Except for the fitness center, the other buildings are designed to front Town Center Parkway. The fitness center is behind the grocery store and next to the multifamily project.
No retailer or restaurant is identified on the draft site plan.
Red Robin Gourmet Burgers Inc. said in September it was considering Jacksonville for a full-size location, which is 6,000 square feet. The Town Center Promenade site plan shows a 5,912-square-foot restaurant building that could accommodate that size.
Per the
JBJ:
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/01/27/new-details-on-23-5-million-development-near-town.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/01/27/new-details-on-23-5-million-development-near-town.html)
QuoteTwo hotels, an apartment complex, a national grocer and several restaurants and retailers are planned at a development next to the St. Johns Town Center, according to a representative for the landowner.
The development has been named the Town Center Promenade and includes 11 outparcels, Tom Mundy of the Shopping Center Group said.
Core Property Capital, based in Atlanta, bought about 69 acres of land, but only about 30 acres are developable as there's a large lake on the site, he said. The development sits on Town Center Parkway across from the Publix shopping center at the Town Center. Core Property Capital paid $23.5 million.
Mundy said the plans call for shops and restaurants to be built along Town Center Parkway with the hotels, apartments and one of the restaurants on the lake.
He said some of the retailers and restaurants include a full-service hamburger chain, a Brazilian steakhouse, a coffee shop, a mattress store and a dental office, Mundy said.
He declined to identify any of the retailers, restaurants or the planned grocer. He said the leases have been signed but have not been finalized with regards to due diligence.
He said the apartment complex will be built on an 8.5-acre site, but he did not have available the number of units.
Mundy said the development isn't being designed to compete with the Town Center.
"Town Center Promenade will complement the existing development," he said.
Mundy said the timing of the purchase had nothing to do with the recent announcement about another proposed Town Center development. He said the Hines development at Interstate 295 and J.T. Butler Boulevard is in a good location, but Town Center Promenade is close to a heavy retail activity.
"We like the position of our site," Mundy said.
Planned layout of the Town Center Promenade.
Source: The Shopping Center Group
http://properties.theshoppingcentergroup.com/properties/30AcresMixed-UseSJTC/#plans (http://properties.theshoppingcentergroup.com/properties/30AcresMixed-UseSJTC/#plans)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1685/24364187780_b4fcb227d9.jpg)
It amazes me that the Town Center just continues to sprawl out... How have they not built or even considered to build a garage yet?
Quote from: jaxjaguar on January 27, 2016, 11:43:32 PM
It amazes me that the Town Center just continues to sprawl out... How have they not built or even considered to build a garage yet?
I'm with this 100%. I'm all for opportunity and expansion, but I'd like to funnel some of that crazy traffic into some well placed garages. I'm sure some enterprising gentlemen can fill in the blanks as far as getting from the garage to the storefront is concerned.
The area is a collection of strip malls, some owned by different entities, in the middle of Jax suburbia. The same can be said for similiar developments all over the country. Why spend millions on structured garages if you don't need too? I'm surprised anyone would expect anything different.
Wow, what a cluster-F that is going to be. Still only one road in and out.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on January 27, 2016, 11:43:32 PM
It amazes me that the Town Center just continues to sprawl out... How have they not built or even considered to build a garage yet?
As the ownership of the area becomes more segmented, the likelihood that a garage will be built gets less and less. Nobody wants to incur that added expense that the other property owners will benefit from free of charge. I thought that as the area built up the density would increase, but that does not seem to be the case.
I never thought this area would develop into anything different.
First, there's nothing really physically unique or trendy about the town center area, when viewed from a national development perspective. Land platting and infrastructure investment has always been designed to parceled out and eventually developed by different entities. On top of that, there's nothing in our land use regulations for that area of town that would guide future development in a fashion that's anything other than heavily autocentric.
Anyone been around in Florida long enough to see the "before and after" of the following suburban regional shopping centers?
- Millenia Mall and Conroy Road in Orlando
- Florida Mall and Sand Lake Road/OBT in Orlando
- Southland Mall and S. Dixie Highway in Cutler Bay (suburban Miami)
- Lakeland Square and US 98 North in Lakeland
- Altamonte Mall and SR 436 in Altamonte (suburban Orlando)
- Brandon Town Center and SR 60 in Brandon (suburban Tampa)
- Regency Square Mall and Atlantic Boulevard in Jax
In their vicinity, you'll find the same development pattern....just 10, 20, 30 years ahead of town center's age. They basically represent what the town center area will basically become. Development won't go up. It will spread out.
A local recirculator would actually work better than a garage in this case.
But SJTC exists based on its low CAM, adding a new fixed cost would have to be recovered through the leases. In the short term, that would make it less competitive.
The other issue is that SJTC is fractured in ownership, so it would take either a consolidated commercial interest, or a effort by a public entity to provide a cohesive cross property transit means.
If the public entity provides it, that would push the fixed cost out of the rent structure and into a tax/farebox structure.
What would your opinion/assessment be of The Avenues and/or The Orange Park Mall? (considering their age)
Similar development pattern as the other malls listed. After 40 years, development on Blanding now sprawls almost to Middleburg and the street is a congested mess. Much of the land around the Avenues is wetlands and conservation, but the developable land has been filled with uses similar to what's going to pop up around SJTC.
(http://www.bigredrooster.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/piada-main-640-780x390.jpg)
QuotePiada Italian Street Food to open first Florida restaurant at Town Center Promenade
By Karen Brune Mathis, Managing Editor
Piada Italian Street Food is bringing its piadas, pastas and salads to Florida and its first location will be in the new Town Center Promenade.
The 30-acre Promenade of restaurants, retail stores, hotels and apartments is slated for development along Town Center Parkway opposite the St. Johns Town Center.
Piada describes itself as an upscale fast-casual Italian eatery. Chris Doody, co-founder in 1992 of the Bravo Brio Restaurant Group Inc., created Piada in 2010, several years after leaving Bravo Brio.
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546952
Quote
Tom Mundy with The Shopping Center Group LLC said the Promenade would include a national grocery store, coffee chain, hamburger concept, Brazilian steakhouse, mattress store, dental practice, restaurant, fast-food site and the fast-casual Italian food concept.
Well here's hoping the new Brazilian Steakhouse will be Fogo De Chao as opposed to the slightly inferior Texas De Brasil (your steak can be made to order at Fogo).
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on January 30, 2016, 09:30:01 PM
Quote
Tom Mundy with The Shopping Center Group LLC said the Promenade would include a national grocery store, coffee chain, hamburger concept, Brazilian steakhouse, mattress store, dental practice, restaurant, fast-food site and the fast-casual Italian food concept.
Well here's hoping the new Brazilian Steakhouse will be Fogo De Chao as opposed to the slightly inferior Texas De Brasil (your steak can be made to order at Fogo).
Just what we need....yet another Mattress (add logo here, Firm, One, etc.) and Aspen Dental!
Here is hoping the "fast food site" is Potbelly. Is the "hamburger concept" Red Robin, Wahlburger or Shake Shack? I thought Red Robin was going in up the street, maybe this is one and the same.
I agree on Fogo De Chao. Been to the one one in Chicago. Texas de Brazil is ok, I have been to the one in Dallas. I wasn't stunned or anything.
The only coffee chain beyond Starbucks that doesn't have a presence here is either Caribou or Seattle's Best.
Things I wouldn't mind seeing are, In and Out, Texas Roadhouse, White Castle, Claim Jumper, Giordano's.
Since Tiger Direct closed, we really, really need a computer/electronics store beyond Best Buy. Micro Center would be perfect. They serve their audience well and don't use a lot of square footage to do it.
My guess is the hamburger chain is Red Robin. This is the same site that was mentioned in the Red Robin article a few months back.
Quote from: spuwho on January 30, 2016, 11:41:42 PM
Since Tiger Direct closed, we really, really need a computer/electronics store beyond Best Buy.
Do we really though? If so, Circuit City is making a comeback!
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on January 31, 2016, 01:10:25 AM
Quote from: spuwho on January 30, 2016, 11:41:42 PM
Since Tiger Direct closed, we really, really need a computer/electronics store beyond Best Buy.
Do we really though? If so, Circuit City is making a comeback!
I am not thinking of a store of the Best Buy/Circuit City mold.
Something more in line with Fry's Electronics but with a smaller footprint.
Best Buy is fine for most top level consumer gear, but MicroCenter deals in components. MicroCenter does have some overlap but they have more depth in selection.
Tiger Direct's retail at Town Center was making money, mostly on business sales but even the employees admitted it was poorly run out of Miami.
So I am thinking more in that line of retail, but is a better run outfit.
Claim Jumper amd McCormick and Smchmick's would be great addition to Jax, for chain type restaurant's. Good service and food. A lake view M&S would be great similar to the restaurant in Buckhead. I was lucky to eat at the original M&S and Jakes Grill in Portland back before they were purchased. Which brings up a point. Portland is one of my favorite cities. Actually similar to JAX. River (Willamette) through DT with many bridge crossings. The biggest difference is the number of residence DT. Interestingly most in low and mid rise building plus older neighborhoods north of DT. All very walkable. Nice "street car" circulator type system DT and a light rail, I believe, to the airport. Not sure if MJ has ever done a story on Portland Oregon but would be an interesting comparison.
Quote from: jaxjags on January 31, 2016, 10:15:12 AM
Portland is one of my favorite cities. Actually similar to JAX. River (Willamette) through DT with many bridge crossings. The biggest difference is the number of residence DT. Interestingly most in low and mid rise building plus older neighborhoods north of DT. All very walkable. Nice "street car" circulator type system DT and a light rail, I believe, to the airport. Not sure if MJ has ever done a story on Portland Oregon but would be an interesting comparison.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-jul-elements-of-urbanism-portland (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-jul-elements-of-urbanism-portland)
Actually in addition to 2013 there was also a 2008 one:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-apr-elements-of-urbanism-portland
Also some side stories like:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-feb-portland-loo-success-where-others-have-failed
Red Robin and Aldi are the latest tenants to announce they are on their way to this new development:
http://jacksonville.com/business/2016-02-25/story/red-robin-plans-first-jacksonville-restaurant-joins-aldi-town-center