Repurposing The Elena Flats Building
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Urban-Issues/Elena-Flats-Reuse/i-LrHzwDS/0/L/image002(2)-L.jpg)
Hostel Detroit illustrates one of the many ways that citizen-led advocates have initiated a creative re-purposing of the city of Detroit, MI. Could this productive rehabilitation provide a model for preserving the Elena Flats building?
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jan-repurposing-the-elena-flats-building
What is better?
This (images of Brooklyn's Loft Hostel):
(http://bedfordandbowery.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/178-520x292.jpg)
(http://ucd.hwstatic.com/propertyimages/2/27128/4.jpg)
(http://2aptot2x2xbj2xbb6hjlw821.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/airbnb-kids-room.jpg)
Or this (former site of Hotel Desoto-critical to the success of Jacksonville's once bustling Railroad Row... now a surface parking lot):
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1754783181_8ZLbTRg-M.jpg)
Interesting article. Hostel Detroit looks like a true commercial commercial mixed use building that was re-purposed for this use. Lots more costly than what could be done with a building already laid out for the use.
A hostel is basically a rooming house and functions like a true transient one. The Elena Flats building could legally be a rooming house again as it is currently zoned CRO and rooming houses are allowed by exception. The requirements for a rooming house are still part of the ordinance code and the original configuration (10 bedrooms, 4 baths) easily meets the standards. Rehabbing the building back to it's original interior configuration would also allow it to qualify for additional tax credits and make the restoration more affordable.
I think rooming houses and boarding houses got a bad rap as the general population decided they disliked sharing a bathroom with strangers. And yet, we all do exactly that when we travel or go to public events or even a night out on the town. They then got left in the older areas where they already existed and got caught up in the drug issues and the lower income and property value issues. You see the same thing happening with the older motels in the same types of areas.
Today, there are Bed and Breakfasts that take the place of the old boarding houses and we can certainly have Hostels that can be the new rooming houses. The former is not very affordable generally but the latter certainly can be.
I live a few blocks from Elena Flats and would be fine with an Ability Housing type of use for it. A hostel? Even better.
QuoteOr this (former site of Hotel Desoto-critical to the success of Jacksonville's once bustling Railroad Row... now a dirt surface parking lot):
Corrected it for you.
QuoteHostel Detroit looks like a true commercial commercial mixed use building that was re-purposed for this use. Lots more costly than what could be done with a building already laid out for the use.
Thanks for picking up on that! I chose Hostel Detroit as an example for this very reason... as the Elena Flats building is already configured for such a use. You aren't trying to make a hotel into a bank... you'd be simply rehabbing an already existing use.
I live 2 blocks from the New York Loft Hostel in Brooklyn and they've really done a good job rehabilitating the building and adding amenities for the guests. What what once was a pretty desolate industrial street near the Boar's Head Packing Plant, has now turned into a quite a lovely little block with the Hostel, a Green Gym, a cafe, a bike shop, a vintage store, and a restaurant. It opened at a time when the Bushwick/East Williamsburg area was gaining favor of the artists over higher priced Williamsburg and Manhattan..
A quick google search turns up no hostels in Jacksonville, although St. Augustine has one. A hostel would make great programming for that type of building. I've stayed at hostels in European cities and my only concern, however, is that Jacksonville is not Brooklyn/NYC, New Orleans, Paris or even Detroit - they've bottomed out but are attracting artists (see the film Detropia http://www.detropiathefilm.com (http://www.detropiathefilm.com))..
Even Brooklyn's longtime artist performance space Galapagos recently packed up shop and is headed to Detroit to plant their flag there.. http://www.galapagosdetroit.com (http://www.galapagosdetroit.com)
One of my friends - who traveled to Jax last year for the Caravan Stage Company performance aboard the ship Amara Zee (docked at Metropolitan Park) complained there wasn't much to do and hard to get around.
In order for the hostel to do well in downtown Jacksonville and compete with AirBnB and Couchsurfing.com that'd be competing for the business of the backpacker set, a few things would need to happen before I think this business model would take off:
- Move Amtrak back downtown to the Union Terminal
- Restore the Amtrak 'Sunset Limited' (LA to New Orleans) to make Jax it's proud coast-to-coast end node
- Extend All Aboard Florida service up to Jax
- JTA follows through with a light rail plan (start with a northward route via the S-Line to connect into JIA)
Basically, the backpacker set travels via train (or bus) and would need convenient transit options. Jax is so spread out it would be hard for visitors with no car to access the beaches..
Having on site bikes for guests to access cultural amenities, restaurants, & entertainment, within downtown, Riverside, and San Marco would be a must. Perhaps shuttle busses for day trips to the beach, Timucuan Preserve, etc could be arranged to fit demand.
The hostel environment, however, offers bonding and social interaction which AirBnB and Couchsurfing.com sometime can't offer.
I'm glad to see this business doing well in Detroit. It may take time before Jacksonville has the infrastructure or cultural clout to have one financially succeed. That being said, the Elena Flats building is definitely a beautiful building worth saving. It would be so sad to see another historic building turned into a surface parking area. I'm hoping for the best!
Historic? Are you kidding me? Looks like a nondescript brick building. Apparently we have run out of worthwhile buildings to preserve and now we have to run around finding anything old. I wouldn't cross the street to look at this house, even if it were free to tour. Boring as watching paint dry.
Quote from: mbstout on January 15, 2015, 06:44:48 PM
One of my friends - who traveled to Jax last year for the Caravan Stage Company performance aboard the ship Amara Zee (docked at Metropolitan Park) complained there wasn't much to do and hard to get around.
In order for the hostel to do well in downtown Jacksonville and compete with AirBnB and Couchsurfing.com that'd be competing for the business of the backpacker set, a few things would need to happen before I think this business model would take off:
- Move Amtrak back downtown to the Union Terminal
- Restore the Amtrak 'Sunset Limited' (LA to New Orleans) to make Jax it's proud coast-to-coast end node
- Extend All Aboard Florida service up to Jax
- JTA follows through with a light rail plan (start with a northward route via the S-Line to connect into JIA)
Basically, the backpacker set travels via train (or bus) and would need convenient transit options. Jax is so spread out it would be hard for visitors with no car to access the beaches..
Having on site bikes for guests to access cultural amenities, restaurants, & entertainment, within downtown, Riverside, and San Marco would be a must. Perhaps shuttle busses for day trips to the beach, Timucuan Preserve, etc could be arranged to fit demand.
The hostel environment, however, offers bonding and social interaction which AirBnB and Couchsurfing.com sometime can't offer.
I'm glad to see this business doing well in Detroit. It may take time before Jacksonville has the infrastructure or cultural clout to have one financially succeed. That being said, the Elena Flats building is definitely a beautiful building worth saving. It would be so sad to see another historic building turned into a surface parking area. I'm hoping for the best!
I agree with all your observations, but I just wouldn't frame it like you're pandering to attract the backpacker crowd. That's not really a formula for success. If the city succeeds in becoming a young professional magnet, a major business center, and a tourist destination, that's what matters. Probably the backpackers would follow anyway.
Quote from: mbstout on January 15, 2015, 06:44:48 PM
- Move Amtrak back downtown to the Union Terminal
- Restore the Amtrak 'Sunset Limited' (LA to New Orleans) to make Jax it's proud coast-to-coast end node
- Extend All Aboard Florida service up to Jax
- JTA follows through with a light rail plan (start with a northward route via the S-Line to connect into JIA)
Basically, the backpacker set travels via train (or bus) and would need convenient transit options. Jax is so spread out it would be hard for visitors with no car to access the beaches..
Having on site bikes for guests to access cultural amenities, restaurants, & entertainment, within downtown, Riverside, and San Marco would be a must. Perhaps shuttle busses for day trips to the beach, Timucuan Preserve, etc could be arranged to fit demand.
Definitely agree with you on this one - make DT easy to get to, an interesting / fun place to be (nightlife).
Regarding light rail - if it were to go from JIA via DT to the Beaches and perhaps even St Augustine that would be even better.
QuoteApparently we have run out of worthwhile buildings to preserve
Not yet, but that is the goal, apparently.
There is a quite popular Hostel in Nashville that does not have AMTRAK or Light rail or anything other than a bus line nearby, as far as transit goes. Nashville is certainly not NYC or SF, but it is more well known than Jacksonville internationally. It has a lot more than 10 rooms/beds to fill though. If DT JAX had more nightlife and attractions, I think a Hostel could make a go of it.
MJ should try to get a tour of the building and post the pics
Chattanooga has a pretty nice hostel called the Crash Pad. It's not NYC, SF, Nashville or Jax. It's not in a historic structure but it is in an old warehouse district and roughly a block or south south of Chattanooga Choo Choo.
(http://www.crashpadchattanooga.com/wp-content/themes/crashpad/images/header-about-us.jpg)
(http://theindependants.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/CrashPad5-TheIndependants-1000x750.jpg)
http://www.crashpadchattanooga.com/
For the first One Spark, Emily Moody (creator of Underbelly) was promoting a project to create a hostel in downtown Jax. I don't know what happened with that.
QuoteElena Flats boarding house Downtown is latest in demolition vs. preservation debate
By Max Marbut, Staff Writer
A 107-year-old former boarding house near the heart of Downtown could be the next battle in the demolition vs. preservation debate.
The Jacksonville Historic Preservation Commission could start it by determining whether to designate the Elena Flats building at 122 E. Duval St. a historic landmark. The former boarding house was built a few years after the Great Fire of 1901.
The owner, Jimmie Lee Clark Jr., applied for a permit to demolish the building near the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception.
The discussion will center on whether the structure possesses sufficient historic signficance for the commission to request from City Council historic landmark designation, which also would reject the request for permission to tear down the building.
The owner could appeal the council's action and renew the demolition application.
The situation is similar to the commission's evaluation of the First Guaranty Bank & Trust Building, also known as the Bostwick Building, said Joel McEachin, city Historic Preservation Section supervisor.
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544754
So I guess the rumor is true. The real reason for the demolition of the building is to clear the site, so it can be sold to the church across the street to use as off-street parking.
QuoteKathleen Bagg, spokeswoman for the Diocese of St. Augustine, said the diocese might be interested in purchasing the property across the street from the basilica, but only if the building is demolished.
Elena Flats is on the commission's Jan. 28 agenda for a public hearing. The panel convenes at 3 p.m. in Room 851 of the Ed Ball Building at 214. N. Hogan St.
Very unfortunate for the idea of historic preservation in downtown.
Wow.
The owner has applied for an appeal to the historic preservation commission's decision to deny the demolition request. The appeal will go before city council.
The owner did not appeal the JHPC decision. It went before LUZ this evening. The owner was not there according to sources.
The church was there and said they want it for a parking lot. LUZ denied the landmark demolition paving the way for the building to get demolished. This is so disappointing.
LUZ denied landmark status (not demolition).
The vote was 5-0 to deny.
Of the 4 points of criteria needed to override the owner of the properties wishes that was being considered. Point 4. Suitability of structure for restoration was the one that didn't pass.
LOL, at this city....
What expert testimony did they have that had them determining cost prohibitive. People I spoke to who have done rehabs of
historic quads said it is doable. We have a downtown historic property that will not cost millions to rehab, but council members
believe a church parking lot is better for downtown.
^The church wants it. Expert testimony and common sense doesn't matter anymore. That's what we put into office, so we have no one to blame but ourselves.
I guess since DT JAX is so packed with residents and visitors on Sundays, the church had little choice.
Yes, that was sarcasm.
This is why DT Jacksonville will never 'get there'. For every right move, there is always a bad one right behind it.
^ on the bright side, I understand that the Episcopal Church has been working on some long-term plans for the cathedral area.
How many legal parking spaces can they put on that small lot? 10? Might as well mow over the two century old frame houses on the corner, so the entire half block can become a parking lot.
So incredibly shortsighted. Downtown needs an advocacy group.
Appears so. The church wants to build a parking lot and that little 100 year old building is clearly standing in the way. I wasn't aware that downtown has no available parking on Sundays.
Quote from: stephendare on April 07, 2015, 11:00:12 PM
wait, what? Are they tearing the building down?
The Episcopal Church wants to make a parking lot?
WtH?
to clarify, it is the Catholic Church that wants to tear down the building to make way for a parking lot.
I mentioned the Episcopal Church as they have plans to improve the area. As for parking, they have plenty as long as there is little market to develop their vacant lot behind the church.
Evidence was presented and citizens spoke up for it at the Historic Preservation Commission meeting. The speakers were under the mistaken impression that the HPC commissioners were the experts in this matter (not the LUZ) and therefore the place to present their case.
How disrespectful of the city council to, once again, disregard the experts in this matter.
The fight for the Claude Nolan building took a year's worth of meetings. I know that I went to too many meetings to count to advocate for it. Others as well. Hours upon hours upon hours upon hours.
That being said, the Claude Nolan was shot down in LUZ as well. It took Robin Lumb and Dr. Gaffney to stand up for it in full council.
Maybe there is still a chance in full council.
Elena Flats' fate will once again be up for Public Hearing:
Tuesday, May 12th (TOMORROW) at the City Council meeting.
Wednesday, May 20th at the LUZ committee meeting.
Please go and speak in favor of saving this structure if that is your position. Both meetings are held at 5:00 p.m.
City Hall
117 W. Duval St., 1st Floor
Council Chamber
Isn't the landmark designation currently in deferral at LUZ until DIA can find an alternative buyer?
LUZ initially denied Landmark status and the bill went back to City Council for a full vote. At the agenda meeting, Council decided not to vote and to send it back to LUZ for additional discussion. As a result, the Landmark status will be back up for Public Hearing at tonight's City Council meeting and will go before LUZ again on May 20th.
Yes, but I was under the impression that the bill is presently being deferred by LUZ specifically so DIA can find alternatives (aka another buyer) for the building.
LUZ voted unanimously to deny Landmark status, thereby paving the way for demolition. The bill was on the Consent Agenda to deny Landmark status.
At the Agenda meeting prior to the last City Council meeting, Councilmembers decided to send the bill back to LUZ for additional discussion after receiving numerous emails and phone calls, along with the DIA's involvement. The bill is once again on tonight's City Council agenda as a Public Hearing so that citizens can voice their support of Landmarking (or support for denial but we won't talk about that..). It will then go back in front of LUZ on May 20th.
Good showing last night for preservation. Psos had butts in seats and spoke for the flats. Wayne Woods, Jack and Joanne were there to speak. Crissie Cudd charmed with a discussion about the politics of possibilities.
No action was taken.
Jack announced that he was very interested in purchasing the property at which point Don Redman totally flipped out and started ranting at him. He accused Jack of all sorts of crazy things. (And I thought he had been rude to Kim the time before!). Redman clearly has an agenda here and is not above intimidating citizens who wish to speak.
And we wonder why people don't get more involved!!!
The Catholic Church pubicly stated its plans to purchase this building and turn it into parking for its parishioners.
Favorite part of the evening was when Lori Boyer pointed out to the group that surface parking lots are not allowed by right in that zoning area where Elana Flats is located.
I'll admit, I'm glad to see all the new faces that will be replacing people like Redman on the council soon. Still can't believe that guy is the downtown council representative.
When someone who has the means and track record to purchase and restore, publicly states they're interested in it, it hurts the argument for demolition. What did he accuse Jack of?
Quote from: thelakelander on May 21, 2015, 06:56:27 AM
I'll admit, I'm glad to see all the new faces that will be replacing people like Redman on the council soon. Still can't believe that guy is the downtown council representative.
When someone who has the means and track record to purchase and restore, publicly states they're interested in it, it hurts the argument for demolition. What did he accuse Jack of?
That he threatened to hurt the owner if he didn't sell to him. Redman also accused him of finding out this info through his role in the DIA (which Joanne firmly denied when she spoke -- she told Redman that she was the one who brought it to Jack's attention). Redman said that Jack was clearly committing an ethics violation.
Is there a DIA noticed somethin today?
Quote from: sheclown on May 21, 2015, 07:09:29 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 21, 2015, 06:56:27 AM
I'll admit, I'm glad to see all the new faces that will be replacing people like Redman on the council soon. Still can't believe that guy is the downtown council representative.
When someone who has the means and track record to purchase and restore, publicly states they're interested in it, it hurts the argument for demolition. What did he accuse Jack of?
That he threatened to hurt the owner if he didn't sell to him. Redman also accused him of finding out this info through his role in the DIA (which Joanne firmly denied when she spoke -- she told Redman that she was the one who brought it to Jack's attention). Redman said that Jack was clearly committing an ethics violation.
Wow, that's pretty crazy.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 12, 2015, 10:40:53 AM
Yes, but I was under the impression that the bill is presently being deferred by LUZ specifically so DIA can find alternatives (aka another buyer) for the building.
LUZ isn't sold on the idea of "letting" Jack Meeks negotiate the purchase of this building with the owner. Redman clearly wants the building down. The catholic church clearly wants this for surface parking because as the father said "the elderly women who attend our church shouldn't have to walk that far to park" (He was referring to other places in the area to park).
& btw, the owner is behind in his taxes and has nuisance liens.
The church already has a surface parking lot behind it. The block to the west is entirely a surface parking lot. This building doesn't need to be another one.
Quote from: sheclown on May 21, 2015, 08:18:52 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on May 12, 2015, 10:40:53 AM
Yes, but I was under the impression that the bill is presently being deferred by LUZ specifically so DIA can find alternatives (aka another buyer) for the building.
LUZ isn't sold on the idea of "letting" Jack Meeks negotiate the purchase of this building with the owner. Redman clearly wants the building down. The catholic church clearly wants this for surface parking because as the father said "the elderly women who attend our church shouldn't have to walk that far to park" (He was referring to other places in the area to park).
How many spaces can that little lot actually fit? It can't be more than 10. Perhaps someone can use a can of spray paint to designate the closest existing spots to the doors for women over a certain age? Seems in a city full of surface lots within immediate walking distance of the church, some alternative and more cost effective solutions should be considered as well.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 21, 2015, 08:49:31 AM
Quote from: sheclown on May 21, 2015, 08:18:52 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on May 12, 2015, 10:40:53 AM
Yes, but I was under the impression that the bill is presently being deferred by LUZ specifically so DIA can find alternatives (aka another buyer) for the building.
LUZ isn't sold on the idea of "letting" Jack Meeks negotiate the purchase of this building with the owner. Redman clearly wants the building down. The catholic church clearly wants this for surface parking because as the father said "the elderly women who attend our church shouldn't have to walk that far to park" (He was referring to other places in the area to park).
How many spaces can that little lot actually fit? It can't be more than 10. Perhaps someone can use a can of spray paint to designate the closest existing spots to the doors for women over a certain age? Seems in a city full of surface lots within immediate walking distance of the church, some alternative and more cost effective solutions should be considered as well.
Redman is the push behind denying the landmark.
By any chance are these meetings taped, so that we can view them online, or is that just for meetings of the entire council?
One sure sign or metric that a DT is reviving is the number of parcels that are changing FROM surface parking into a built-on lot. Obviously a built-on lot BECOMING surface parking is the worst case situation. Within the Northbank core, when was the last time a surface parking lot or a vacant lot was built on (and building a garage-only building, like Parador, does not count).
Valet parking for the church might solve the problem and raise some money.
Quote from: vicupstate on May 21, 2015, 08:53:13 AM
By any chance are these meetings taped, so that we can view them online, or is that just for meetings of the entire council?
One sure sign or metric that a DT is reviving is the number of parcels that are changing FROM surface parking into a built-on lot. Obviously a built-on lot BECOMING surface parking is the worst case situation. Within the Northbank core, when was the last time a surface parking lot or a vacant lot was built on (and building a garage-only building, like Parador, does not count).
Wow. This is pretty difficult to answer. I assume, we're excluding the Southbank and Brooklyn? If so, probably the 7-Eleven or McDonalds on State & Union Streets.....
Quote from: sheclown on May 21, 2015, 08:22:53 AM
& btw, the owner is behind in his taxes and has nuisance liens.
So, any chance the property may go up for auction in the near future ?
Quote from: vicupstate on May 21, 2015, 08:53:13 AM
By any chance are these meetings taped, so that we can view them online, or is that just for meetings of the entire council?
One sure sign or metric that a DT is reviving is the number of parcels that are changing FROM surface parking into a built-on lot. Obviously a built-on lot BECOMING surface parking is the worst case situation. Within the Northbank core, when was the last time a surface parking lot or a vacant lot was built on (and building a garage-only building, like Parador, does not count).
Here's part of it. Let me put this in context. Jack Meeks just said that he and his wife could buy this important historic building and restore it.
http://www.youtube.com/v/6jGU5M1LX_c?rel=0
Quote from: sheclown on May 21, 2015, 03:24:49 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 21, 2015, 08:53:13 AM
By any chance are these meetings taped, so that we can view them online, or is that just for meetings of the entire council?
One sure sign or metric that a DT is reviving is the number of parcels that are changing FROM surface parking into a built-on lot. Obviously a built-on lot BECOMING surface parking is the worst case situation. Within the Northbank core, when was the last time a surface parking lot or a vacant lot was built on (and building a garage-only building, like Parador, does not count).
Here's part of it. Let me put this in context. Jack Meeks just said that he and his wife could buy this important historic building and restore it.
http://www.youtube.com/v/6jGU5M1LX_c?rel=0
Thanks sheclown. Just from what is in the snipit, it sounds like Redman accepted the owner's version of events/conversation without even asking Meeks for his.
Bill 2015-170 to Landmark Elena Flats at 122 East Duval Street passed the June 2, 2015 LUZ committee by a vote of 5-2.
The bill was passed by City Council last night (June 9, 2015) by a vote of 15-2 with Remdan and Shellenberg voting NO and Daniels and Joost casting no vote (absent).
WAY TO GO JACKSONVILLE!