Metro Jacksonville

Should Chains Receive Tax Money To Open In Downtown?

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A Downtown Investment Authority program intended to help recruit retailers to downtown has resulted into two sandwich chains applying for incentives to open in downtown storefronts. One local developer believes this money should be set aside for local businesses. What's your opinion?

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-dec-should-chains-receive-tax-money-to-open-in-downtown

It is interesting to note that Langton is getting almost double what Jimmy Johns and Jersey Mike's are getting combined!

QuoteDowntown Investment Authority CEO Aundra Wallace believes that "chains are better than having empty buildings around the urban core".

Correct answer.

Let's face it, Jacksonville loves its chain restaurants.

Plus, with the DIA's limited funds, a stable, established chain is probably a much safer bet than a local Mom & Pop.

There's room for both, and I like the idea of weighting the incentives in favor of local businesses, but downtown Jacksonville isn't in the position to be turning its nose at chains.

I just want more lunch options downtown, if that includes 2 sub chains I'm cool with it.

We have already subsidized commercial development in rural areas through public investment in infrastructure and urban services, and waiver of mobility fees, in order to promote commercial development that competed with, and draws activity away from, the urban core and into the outskirts. City leadership made a conscious and quiet decision to kill the core decades ago. Why spend more money to pretend to change direction now?

Back to the topic at question, I see no reason why the incentives ought to be "reserved" for local business. I do think I'd consciously favor local businesses if they're competing for the same pot, but again no reason why these incentives should sit around waiting for the right local business to claim.

IDEALLY, these funds would only go to projects that would ONLY happen with the funds being provided. That is a lot easier said than done. My guess is the two chains would come regardless. The two local ones might not, although perhaps they would. 

I do hope that ALL of these funds are paying for construction, renovations or other upgrades that will result in the property being more valuable, and not just supplies, furniture, fixtures or wages.   That way the improvement contributes to a higher tax base and the next occupant will benefit too, if the original one does not survive. 

I would say that Downtown should snag what it can snag, it's in no position to be a chooser. Of course, neither is it a beggar - things are improving. The landscape is slowly shifting to favor the Core, and chain restaurants can certainly come to the party.

Aren't these chains going to be run by local people and provide local jobs? I don't see what the big deal is. Fill up the store fronts.

I'm fine with chains applying for and receiving money from this investment program. We always talk about how downtown is full of dead zones that lead to lost synergy and walkability. I didn't know Jersey Mikes was interested in opening in the SunTrust building. Ideally this money would go towards the construction costs associated with adding an entrance so that the store opens up to the sidewalk. Add a couple of tables as sidewalk seating and all of sudden that block is not quite as dead. I agree with the person who said this money should be spent on construction and renovation costs, not on operational or start-up.

Who's asking for the hundred grand?? All I think of when I hear about restaurants asking for these large sums of city money is Sax Seafood (which far as I know is still standing over there vacant, years later).

Quote from: tufsu1 on December 19, 2014, 08:10:49 AM
It is interesting to note that Langton is getting almost double what Jimmy Johns and Jersey Mike's are getting combined!

+1
Does anyone else feel sorry for the Baltimore guys? 2014-412
2014-190 and the two yet to be built floating docks on the Southbank to one vendor?
tufsu1 let's do a RICO loop of Downtown on the Waterway and I've got my two seater and you can sit and just enjoy the ride as I show you all the NEW restricted CRA/DIA zones. I'm serious.
Stay positive!

Quote from: Bativac on December 19, 2014, 11:50:25 PM
Who's asking for the hundred grand?? All I think of when I hear about restaurants asking for these large sums of city money is Sax Seafood (which far as I know is still standing over there vacant, years later).

And let's not forget Palms Fish Camp next to a FIND project. That 10 year CD is about to come due and a million plus and you never even opened the door. Sign me up!

Visit Jacksonville!

We have all given up asking you know who about you know what.

I am very disappointed at the poll results so far. Apparently, most voting don't understand that the free market does a much better job of picking winners and losers than government agencies ever will. Besides, isn't this similar to the Soviet model? The government decides who the winners and losers are. Who cares what the market wants? We, the government, know better than you do. This is what is wrong with America today. Government is in bed with business and the middle class is bled dry as politicians reward their favorite companies/CEOs with your tax dollars. This is known as crony capitalism and it also explains why the economy is not what it should be. Politicians put up false boundaries around certain businesses to discourage competition and protect their cronies.

While I wish there we local owners lined up to open downtown the reality is - there isn't, so I guess the money goes to whomever is willing to open.  With they money though I hope/wish there are some design and operating hour requirements designed to enhance downtown.  after all, isn't that why this program was started in the first place.  Here is a list of minimums the businesses should agree to get the money.

Stay open until 8PM S-T and 10PM F,Sa
Outdoor seating
Door that opens directly the sidewalk

If all we end up doing is expanding lunch options for office workers then I say no amount of money is worth that un-lofty goal.

Quote from: fsujax on December 19, 2014, 01:57:38 PM
Aren't these chains going to be run by local people and provide local jobs? I don't see what the big deal is. Fill up the store fronts.

Actually, national chains are drain on the local economy and cities would be better off not having them at all.  Now if your hometown happens to be the headquarters of a national chain then by all means you want other cities to send you a percentage of sales every week.

http://www.the350project.net/home.html

^ like Firehouse. 

But here's a question....at what point, does something local become a chain?  Is The Loop a chain?  How about Metro Diner?  Maple Street Biscuits?  And what about locally-owned franchises, like Mellow Mushroom?

Quote from: tufsu1 on December 29, 2014, 01:25:42 PM
^ like Firehouse. 

But here's a question....at what point, does something local become a chain?  Is The Loop a chain?  How about Metro Diner?  Maple Street Biscuits?  And what about locally-owned franchises, like Mellow Mushroom?

Are those stores paying a franchise fee to an out-of-town corporation? I think that's Kerry's question...the semantics matter less.

This was reaffirmed at the 1/5/15  Retail Enhancement Committee meeting of the DIA.

Jersey Mike's in the Suntrust Tower is officially dead:

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/05/26/sorry-hungry-downtown-workers-this-restaurant-isnt.html

Too bad. That would have been a nice spot for an eatery.

I'm not familiar with the interior of the building.  Will someone explain to me how this: ""The building itself was not really conducive for a restaurant," Phillips said. "The size, nature and materials were going to make it very difficult to build out our space.", makes any sense.

Isn't this the kind of stuff you figure out BEFORE you plan on putting a restaurant somewhere?

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on May 26, 2015, 02:16:50 PM
I'm not familiar with the interior of the building.  Will someone explain to me how this: ""The building itself was not really conducive for a restaurant," Phillips said. "The size, nature and materials were going to make it very difficult to build out our space.", makes any sense.

Isn't this the kind of stuff you figure out BEFORE you plan on putting a restaurant somewhere?

Probably code for our lenders decided not to loan us the money. Because as you noted that would all seem basic 101 stuff done prior to securing funds.

Quote from: thelakelander on May 26, 2015, 02:00:33 PM
Too bad. That would have been a nice spot for an eatery.

Agree about a restaurant. Not sure I'm heartbroken about another subs place not coming downtown. Would rather see a legit restaurant take the space and do something transformational across the street from the landing. Lord knows there's plenty of parking now.

Quote from: edjax on May 26, 2015, 02:50:01 PM

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on May 26, 2015, 02:16:50 PM
I'm not familiar with the interior of the building.  Will someone explain to me how this: ""The building itself was not really conducive for a restaurant," Phillips said. "The size, nature and materials were going to make it very difficult to build out our space.", makes any sense.

Isn't this the kind of stuff you figure out BEFORE you plan on putting a restaurant somewhere?

Probably code for our lenders decided not to loan us the money. Because as you noted that would all seem basic 101 stuff done prior to securing funds.

My guess is the Franchisee had the cost of build out determined,  but the bank didn't think a restaurant would work there.

Could this have something to do with the new owners having a different vision? Kind of like the cafeteria at the top of BOA is now closed because of new owners having a different plan.

It's too bad our ball-less city council let them build the Suntrust parking garage without the retail component. Jersey Mikes would have been a perfect sized establishment for one of those retail spaces. Clearly there is interest.

^^^I agree if the parking garage had retail, that would've been better than Jersey Mike's being buried deep inside of a skyscraper.

I just wish there was a Taco Bell downtown. I am reaaaalllyyy getting tired of sandwiches for lunch.  ;D

Quote from: brainstormer on May 26, 2015, 07:34:06 PM
Could this have something to do with the new owners having a different vision? Kind of like the cafeteria at the top of BOA is now closed because of new owners having a different plan.

It's too bad our ball-less city council let them build the Suntrust parking garage without the retail component. Jersey Mikes would have been a perfect sized establishment for one of those retail spaces. Clearly there is interest.

You are pretty much spot on with both assertions.