St. Johns Town Center's Nordstroms Wing
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3626268020_GDDjqWJ-L.jpg)
Images of the latest retail esplanade at St. Johns Town Center.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-dec-st-johns-town-centers-nordstroms-wing
Looks very nice.
Not a homeless person / vagrant / panhandler / "scary yelling drunk person" in sight, very well maintained grounds throughout the entire facility, music played from the planters, plenty of security on segways and a good mix of high and low end stores....
One day downtown...one day....
^ comparing the Town Center to Downtown? C'mon. What downtown doesn't have a homeless population.
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on December 17, 2014, 09:26:59 AM
^ comparing the Town Center to Downtown? C'mon. What downtown doesn't have a homeless population.
Downtown Disney.
Duh...
;D
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on December 17, 2014, 09:26:59 AM
^ comparing the Town Center to Downtown? C'mon. What downtown doesn't have a homeless population.
Why does that have to be the norm? Why can't Jacksonville be the front runner in eliminating them? What is it about downtown that attracts these people and keeps them around? What is it about the Town Center, Ponte Vedra, Neptune Beach, Flemming Island, South Side, Nocatee that keeps them away? One of the first things I noticed about downtown St Pete and Houston, in my recent trips over the holidays, was the virtual lack of homeless or vagrants ANYWHERE in the city.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on December 17, 2014, 10:15:17 AM
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on December 17, 2014, 09:26:59 AM
^ comparing the Town Center to Downtown? C'mon. What downtown doesn't have a homeless population.
Why does that have to be the norm? Why can't Jacksonville be the front runner in eliminating them? What is it about downtown that attracts these people and keeps them around?
Easy answer. Most of the city's major social and homeless services are located downtown. The Sulzbacher Center, Clara White Mission, City Rescue Mission, etc. The jail is only a few blocks away too, so when prisoners are released, they often end up downtown. Mass deinstitutionalization in the 1980s was also responsible for putting a lot of mentally ill people on the streets.
^^^Plus, most homeless people don't have cars.
Bus station(s), trains, etc. too.
The St. Johns Town Center is private property so they can kick anyone they want out. It doesn't work like that on public streets.
What do you think the security guards on Segways are for?
Disney/orlando just loads em on a bus and sends them to Jacksonville.
I'd rather be in Jacksonville.
Is there a reason we can't stop cities from shipping their problems here? I mean it's a win/win for them and a lose/lose for us. They get to say, "Hey! Look how clean our streets are and how you won't get heckled! You should come here and not Jacksonville because they have all of the dirty, crazy people." On the other hand we're just letting them wander around aimlessly, defecate in our bushes, beg for cash and sleep in our parks/sidewalks.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on December 17, 2014, 11:21:21 AM
Why can't Jacksonville be the front runner in eliminating them? ...
Is there a reason we can't stop cities from shipping their problems here? I mean it's a win/win for them and a lose/lose for us. They get to say, "Hey! Look how clean our streets are and how you won't get heckled! You should come here and not Jacksonville because they have all of the dirty, crazy people." On the other hand we're just letting them wander around aimlessly, defecate in our bushes, beg for cash and sleep in our parks/sidewalks.
"In my younger and more venerable years my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since. "Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone," he told me, "just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had." - F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby
Please do try to remember that amongst the trouble-makers and aggressive panhandlers are a lot of people who genuinely need help. Had the cards been dealt differently, it could be any one of us on the streets without a place to go. Mixed in with the winos and derelicts are the mentally disabled, war veterans, crack babies, women fleeing abusive situations, and those just honestly down on their luck. Don't need to have a bleeding heart to be troubled by such a blanket generalization of the homeless population.
P.S. Eliminating or relocating the homeless population downtown would only force Jacksonville to come up with a new lazy excuse as to why we've fallen so miserably behind most other comparable cities in regards to downtown revitalization over the last 50 years. Our homeless "problem" isn't particularly special or unique, and every other city has figured it out. Provide a hospitable climate for downtown businesses and residents and focus your efforts on carefully planning and developing nearby clusters of dense, mixed, vibrant, complementing uses, and it won't matter if there are zero homeless people or a thousand. People will be crawling over each other to be a part of your downtown. The best way to deal with the homeless situation is to make downtown attractive and desirable for everyone else.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on December 17, 2014, 09:08:17 AM
Not a homeless person / vagrant / panhandler / "scary yelling drunk person" in sight, very well maintained grounds throughout the entire facility, music played from the planters, plenty of security on segways and a good mix of high and low end stores....
One day downtown...one day....
You mentioned DT St. Pete and Houston as model downtowns without homeless people anywhere. St. Pete is the largest city in the country's largest retirement zone in America (not to mention its downtown is tiny). Its demographics is notably different from most major cities and its economy revolves around the old [white-Midwestern] people that live there. Houston's downtown is further behind Atlanta's in terms of mixed use development and it is one of the deadest, single-use downtowns in America. 2 bad comparisons for downtown standouts.
Where you will likely see a few homeless and some grit is in Manhattan and in Chicago, Boston, Denver, and DC. Where you'll see a bit more is in Philly. Where you'll see literally a TON of homeless is in SF, Portland, and Seattle. These are the country's best downtowns and they all have homeless, none have mall cops riding around on seqways, and maintained grounds are a little more sparse and unplanned, to be used by all, including a ton of homeless (where else are they going to go even in the most homeless-free downtowns?).
Lack of homelessness is a "perk", but by no means an indicator of a great downtown. In fact, in the grand sceme of things, DT St. Pete is more or less a Disney-fied downtown in a wealthy retirement area and downtown Houston is the deadest downtown of any Major city in America (Houston being a major city, Jax not really considered a major city).
FTR, the St. Johns Town Center is nothing more than a dime a dozen around this country. Many cities have several even more "urban" versions of it in their own suburbs. Great for Jax, but nothing that could or should ever be compared to any downtown anywhere.
Hell, you can't go a block in Philly without a homeless begging for money and they can be a lot more aggressive than in Jax. I remember a homeless guy getting turned down and throwing a brick at the person. SJTC is a mall . I don't know too many malls with homeless people hanging out.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on December 17, 2014, 09:08:17 AM
Not a homeless person / vagrant / panhandler / "scary yelling drunk person" in sight,
I would submit there is hardly anyone in sight!
Quote from: simms3 on December 17, 2014, 04:33:06 PM
Quote from: jaxjaguar on December 17, 2014, 09:08:17 AM
Not a homeless person / vagrant / panhandler / "scary yelling drunk person" in sight, very well maintained grounds throughout the entire facility, music played from the planters, plenty of security on segways and a good mix of high and low end stores....
One day downtown...one day....
You mentioned DT St. Pete and Houston as model downtowns without homeless people anywhere. St. Pete is the largest city in the country's largest retirement zone in America (not to mention its downtown is tiny). Its demographics is notably different from most major cities and its economy revolves around the old [white-Midwestern] people that live there. Houston's downtown is further behind Atlanta's in terms of mixed use development and it is one of the deadest, single-use downtowns in America. 2 bad comparisons for downtown standouts.
Where you will likely see a few homeless and some grit is in Manhattan and in Chicago, Boston, Denver, and DC. Where you'll see a bit more is in Philly. Where you'll see literally a TON of homeless is in SF, Portland, and Seattle. These are the country's best downtowns and they all have homeless, none have mall cops riding around on seqways, and maintained grounds are a little more sparse and unplanned, to be used by all, including a ton of homeless (where else are they going to go even in the most homeless-free downtowns?).
Lack of homelessness is a "perk", but by no means an indicator of a great downtown. In fact, in the grand sceme of things, DT St. Pete is more or less a Disney-fied downtown in a wealthy retirement area and downtown Houston is the deadest downtown of any Major city in America (Houston being a major city, Jax not really considered a major city).
FTR, the St. Johns Town Center is nothing more than a dime a dozen around this country. Many cities have several even more "urban" versions of it in their own suburbs. Great for Jax, but nothing that could or should ever be compared to any downtown anywhere.
JaxJaguar - DT St. Pete is definately not lacking in its share of homeless. Next time, travel a block or two more away from the areas directly surrounding Beach and Bayshore Drives. Chances are, you'll stumble on St. Pete's version of Hemming Plaza in Williams Park.
Wonderful restaurant and my wife found the coolest sleeveless jacket. Expensive, but worth it.I've been waiting for this day.Yea!!
Better here than the last vestiges of the Headwaters of Pottsburg Creek......yea,fast backward to Freedom Commerce Centre/Goodman Companies (Palm Beach),Delaney era/Preserve Jax proposed Freedom Commerce tract wetland development proposal episode.......the wetland fill to accommodate certain "Upscale" retail........somewhat successfully addressed by the Florida Wildlife Federation (Sorry RK- sit down 8) ), Federal USACE Wetland permitting/Clean Water Act process......FWF effectively lodged evidence that there were clear alternatives to the Goodman proposal location.
Somewhat 'sleeveless'. And magnificently High Heeled.
Sure beat Dillards Special invite.....
Quote from: KenFSU on December 17, 2014, 12:00:05 PM
Quote from: jaxjaguar on December 17, 2014, 11:21:21 AM
Why can't Jacksonville be the front runner in eliminating them? ...
The best way to deal with the homeless situation is to make downtown attractive and desirable for everyone else.
Exactly. And very well said. The reason homeless people do not venture out at SJTC is because it makes them uncomfortable. Solely speaking in terms of the vagrant, panhandler, violent, or mentally ill homeless, i just believe its more comfortable for them to be around downtown (abandoned buildings, empty lots, empty storefronts, inactive parks) than high-end shops, restaurants, vibrant new shopping district (SJTC). Once downtown is built up and infused with life, you will see less of the homeless on the streets.
However, the location of the homeless outreach centers despite their services and deeds, are indeed a hinderance when it comes to making progress in that area. Ive always believed these institutions should be established on the outskirts of downtown but then maybe that too would be an issue. Nonetheless, more activity in the core would def make this issue less 'noticeable'. Notice how during One Spark, Jazz Fest, and even Art Walk you tend to notice less panhandlers and vagrants for stretches at a time. Why? Activity. The crowds that come and will come will greatly outnumber the latter.
I like the Bazille Restaurant up on the second floor of Nordstrom's.
Even though they follow store hours, with holiday shopping mandating later closing times, its a great place to go for a night cap later in the evening.