QuotePolice arrest demonstrators in Hart Bridge protest during evening rush hour
By Jim Schoettler, Derek Giliam & Dan Scanlan Mon, Dec 8, 2014 @ 8:16 am | updated Tue, Dec 9, 2014 @ 6:12 am
Bob.Self@jacksonville.com
Demonstrators orchestrated a halt to Monday morning's rush-hour traffic on Interstate 95 just south of Jacksonville's downtown to protest the recent grand jury decisions not to indict the police officers who killed Eric Garner in New York and Michael Brown in Missouri.
Then during the rush hour home, a group of about 20 protesters did the same thing on Jacksonville's Hart Bridge. They got out of vehicles in the westbound lanes about 5 p.m. and walked toward downtown as they protested before being arrested by police near EverBank Field. Police said one protestor threw a punch at an officer while being arrested.
The morning protest started shortly after 7 a.m. when about a half-dozen men stopped their vehicles at the same time on I-95 between Emerson Street and University Boulevard and got out to protest, the Sheriff's Office said.
The group dispursed when officers arrived, but traffic was backed up for about an hour, the Sheriff's Office said. Some of them were cited under Florida traffic statutes for pedestrians on a limited access highway, a civil infraction.
The men involved in the morning protest, all African-Americans, didn't identify themselves as being from any organized group. They said they had come from different neighborhoods in Jacksonville to deliver a message that any type of heavy-handedness by police will not be tolerated.
The later protest included both white and black people.
Garner died July 17 in New York City after being tackled by police during his arrest for selling cigarettes, telling the officers "I can't breathe" as he was grabbed around the neck. Brown was shot and killed early Aug. 10 during a struggle with a police officer in Ferguson, Mo. Both were black and unarmed.
"They're killing people around the country and I want people to know we won't tolerate it here," said Wesley Phillips, 34, at the I-95 protest. "We have rights and I want those rights to be respected."
Phillips, who said the police acted appropriately Monday, was one of the men issued a $62.50 ticket for walking along the interstate during the demonstration. He said he was protesting more than just the recent grand jury decisions, but the overall lack of value placed on the lives of black men.
"Young black males' lives aren't valued," he said. "And as young black males we have to take a stand."
Police on the scene said the men were peaceful and obeyed their requests to stay out of traffic. Several motorists watching the men being interviewed along the side of northbound I-95 honked their horns.
"There really wasn't any trouble," said one police sergeant as he was leaving the scene.
Terry Levy, who said he was from the Northside, said he joined the group to ensure that the public took notice that people in Jacksonville are no less accepting of civil rights violations as those who have protested the grand jury decisions across the country.
"This is my community and we have a right to live in peace here," said Levy, 38. "We have to stand up for what we believe in. We believe in peace."
The men said they had no immediate plans for future protests, but didn't discount the idea.
Hours later more protesters, some waving Day-Glo signs, slowly walked in front of 5 p.m. traffic on the downtown side of the Hart Bridge, according to a video marked #SHUTITDOWNMONDAY on Facebook.
Sheriff's Office Director Tom Hackney said protestors arrived in three or four vehicles and blocked both lanes of the Hart Bridge. He said police arrived within minutes and had the protestors drive their vehicles a short distance away near Everbank Field. Police cleared the bridge in about 10 minutes.
The men and women, both white and black, were arrested on misdemeanor charges for blocking traffic, Hackney said. He said one of the protesters threw a punch and hit an officer in the face. That protestor will be charged with felony battery on a police officer.
Hackney said protestors were arrested because the situation was more dangerous than the earlier demonstration. He said police are ready to react if more demonstrations happen in the future.
Hackney said the demonstration tied up a private ambulance with a patient onboard in traffic on the bridge.
A man claiming to be part of the organization responsible for the demonstration called the Sheriff's Office response to the protest "overzealous."
James Evans Muhamud said he's with the Washington, D.C., based organization Black Lawyers for Justice. He said some of the protestors weren't from Jacksonville, although he was born and raised here. He said he didn't know how many were from other cities.
Muhamud said the goal of the Hart bridge demonstration was to "tie the traffic up and bring attention to the fact that racism is destroying America."
"It's going to happen all over the city," he said of civil disobedience.
However, he wouldn't say if there were protests planned for Tuesday.
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2014-12-08/story/police-arrest-demonstrators-hart-bridge-protest-during-evening-rush-hour
It's stupid. Protesting is fine but no one stuck in a massive backup is going to say "You know, I didn't really agree with their point of view. After they made me wait in traffic and be late for work, I totally get it!". They keep at it and someone is going to get hurt or worse.
Wait until one of them gets hit by a car ::)
Quote from: thekillingwax on December 09, 2014, 08:30:40 AM
It's stupid. Protesting is fine but no one stuck in a massive backup is going to say "You know, I didn't really agree with their point of view. After they made me wait in traffic and be late for work, I totally get it!". They keep at it and someone is going to get hurt or worse.
that's probably what the riders on Rosa Parks bus said too.
or what the lunch counter folks said about Rodney Hurst as he and his friends sat down for a hot dog at the all white counter in Hemming Plaza
or the students who participated in sit-ins in the 60s
it is civil disobedience and it isn't done to make people sympathetic to a cause -- it is done to state what ought to be obvious -- "it is our country too we have a right to make our opinion known -- ignore us and the message will only get louder"
^ In these cases though, the actions taken by said protestors were specific and symbolic. Minorities have to ride in the back of the bus? Rosa Parks sits in the front of the bus. Minorities are refused service at downtown lunch counters? Protestors sit there anyway. Southern states refuse to comply when segregated buses are ruled unconstitutional? Freedom Riders board buses and travel through those states. Students oppose the Vietnam War? They "sit-in" at government offices and other facilities supporting or aiding the war effort. The local arts community doesn't like Clay Yarborough threatening to defund MOCA over a portrait depicting exposed breasts? They picket in front of MOCA during a high-visibility event and strap on fake boobs.
I admire anyone who is willing to take a stand for their beliefs and agree with many of the points that these protestors are making, but there has to be a better, more relevant way to protest than blocking I-95 at rush hour, backing up traffic for an hour, making people late for work, and just generally creating a dangerous situation for yourself and for others sharing the road with you. Civil disobedience doesn't have to make others sympathetic to your cause, but pulling stunts like this is counterproductive and will actively turn people off from your cause. I don't care what you are protesting, if you make me miss my flight or rear-end the vehicle in front of me, you're no friend of mine and you're not getting any of my support with your efforts.
March on Washington. Block the entrance to the Sheriff's Office. Stage a walk-out. Call in to local radio stations. Buy an ad in the Times-Union. Picket in front of City Hall. Hell, safely park your cars at a red light on Beach Boulevard if you insist on stopping traffic. But don't stop your cars on the highway on a foggy morning in rush hour.
Exactly. Rosa Parks and Rodney Hurst weren't playing in traffic. Sit-ins didn't block a major artery in and out of the core that provides access to a trauma center. It's stupid and it is dangerous. Like I said, they keep doing it and someone will get seriously hurt and then it'll be all "How could this have happened?".
These people are idiots.
They're basically upset that someone lost their rights, so they've taken away other peoples right to move freely.
I'm all for them protesting, but don't infringe on my rights, and look out if you jump in front of my truck on the interstate, I gotta get to work so you can protest!
They went out of their way to do that... Seems like a waste of time. The police officers wouldn't of bothered them if they weren't acting like that. Silly people.
I agree with Stephen, the point was to get people's attention. I don't necessarily agree with it, but no one would be talking about it if they were just protesting outside the sheriff's office. Also, I believe this is a coordinated national movement using the hashtag #shutitdown.
I got caught up in traffic from both the morning and evening protests. No big deal. I am glad they chose major public places to grab attention and make their point. My only concern is that our interstate highways are very dangerous for pedestrians. The morning group was moved to the overpass where they were safe and could still hold a visible demonstration.
I also saw lots of comments on Facebook telling these people to "get a job" (see coredumped's post above). How do we know they don't have jobs? Many people don't work 8-5 jobs and/or they could have taken time off to advocate for an issue they are passionate about!
The Rosa Parks demonstration meant a lot more in the 60s and was very shocking and disruptive in that time. In today's day and age, the protestors feel that to get their voice out there, they need to take more drastic measures. I would think that as progressive as this forum claims to be, we could see it for what it is.
Getting attention cannot be allowed to trump public safety. Ever. There are a million ways to get recognition without stopping traffic on the highway. It wasn't even six months ago here in North Florida that backed up traffic on I-95 caused a horrific multi-vehicle accident that resulted in four people burning to death on the highway.
QuoteSix Dead in I-95 Crashes
FHP said the backup from the Palm Coast crash may have contributed to the crash in St. Johns county that involved at least eight passenger vehicles and three commercial motor vehicles. At least four deaths were confirmed.
FHP said preliminary information revealed that traffic was being detoured from I-95 southbound to the exit of U.S. 1, due to the Palm Coast crash. Traffic was stopped awaiting the detour when a semi-truck approached the area.
For reasons still under investigation, the big rig was unable to stop in time to avoid rear-ending a vehicle, which started a chain-reaction crash involving nearly a dozen vehicles. After the initial impact, fire engulfed several vehicles.
Another example of what happens when traffic unexpectedly stops on the highway:
Quote10 injured in I-95 pileup
By DANA TREEN
The Times-Union,
Larry Wilcox watched in his rearview mirror as a tractor-trailer plowed toward him in a six-vehicle pileup Wednesday on Interstate 95 in Jacksonville that sent 10 people to hospitals.
"There were cars behind me," he said. "I saw pieces flying both ways and cars flying both ways."
S.D. Ezell, Florida Highway Patrol trooper, works on a report of a six-vehicle accident on Interstate 95 and Emerson Street. Ten people were taken to hospitals. Donald Harrell of Johnson City, Tenn., the driver of a tractor-trailer, was cited for careless driving. BRUCE LIPSKY/The Times-Union
Wilcox and his wife, Linda, were hit from behind by the Freightliner in the 2:30 p.m. accident that closed the I-95 northbound lanes at Emerson Street for nearly two hours.
"I hollered out to my husband, 'I love you,'" Linda Wilcox said. "I didn't know if we were going to make it."
The Wilcoxes were not hurt in the wreck, which crumpled the rear of their Saturn and shoved them down the road.
One motorist, though, had to be cut from her car after it was shoved onto its side against a concrete median wall, but the extent of her injuries or harm to others was not clear at the scene, Florida Highway Patrol Trooper Sandy Ezell said.
Ezell said three ambulances took 10 people to Shands Jacksonville and Baptist Medical Center for treatment. Truck driver Donald Harrell and his son, Jeff, were the last to be taken for treatment by Jacksonville Fire and Rescue.
Donald Harrell, 61, of Johnson City, Tenn., was cited for careless driving, no proof of insurance and an expired medical card.
Witnesses said the wreck unfolded as northbound drivers slowed just south of the Emerson exit to scan a fender-bender in the southbound lane.
"It was a very scary situation," said Teri McCall, who was in the same group of vehicles as the tractor-trailer. She said the truck was passing and had been weaving in and out of lanes when she saw brake lights ahead.
"I saw all the brake lights start to hit," McCall said, and started to slow her car. "He hit the car that was in front of him. He fishtailed into two other lanes, back and forth, back and forth."
McCall and her passenger, Deborah Payne, said the tractor-trailer started to jackknife before coming to a halt.
Two pickup trucks caught in the wreck and two cars that were shoved into the median ended up behind the tractor-trailer.
Jeff Harrell, who was in the truck, said it was hard to describe what happened.
"I don't know," he said. "A landslide."
There is no cause, no matter how noble, that justifies the needless danger that these protesters put drivers in yesterday. For those who applaud yesterday's action, what would you be saying if it would have cost lives? What if a patient had died on the way to Baptist because I-95 was blocked by protestors?
Great cause, but absolutely reckless behavior that shouldn't be encouraged.
⤴ agreed ⤴
Quote from: stephendare on December 09, 2014, 11:55:46 AM
I like it. Certainly got everyone's attention.
You like it? What's so great about taking away other peoples rights and breaking the law? It's OK since you agree with the same opinion?
Yes, it's gotten attention, but the reaction to it 99% of the time is "these people are idiots."
http://www.youtube.com/v/T2bkt9aLBBI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2bkt9aLBBI
Quote from: stephendare on December 09, 2014, 02:01:39 PM
If it is your 'right' to use the bridge, why can the cops shut it down for traffic control purposes?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg)
Wooooow.
I am 100% for your right to protest but these assholes on the bridge caused me to sit in dead stop traffic and be late for an appointment yesterday. If you wanna picket your little heart out on the sidewalk go for it, but don't interfere with my day
For fear that free expression might put you out.
Being stopped on the street for no particular reason should leave one "put out".
Being shot for no particular reason should leave one "put out".
Being told your loved one will not see justice should leave one "put out".
Being stuck on the bridge for the same amount of time it takes to clear an accident because people are keeping an issue in the public eye by engaging and physically demonstrating should be a birthright and an honor. Step out of your still car and sing a song of liberty.
Stephen, I did not see your mug shot here.....
http://www.news4jax.com/news/mugs-19-arrested-charged-in-hart-bridge-protest/30137610 (http://www.news4jax.com/news/mugs-19-arrested-charged-in-hart-bridge-protest/30137610)
Next time, right?
There have been a lot of protests, mostly violent to a degree, in the Bay Area for the past couple weeks. We have had:
Our highways shut down by thousands of protesters (last night a woman went into labor as 1500 protesters blocked a section of freeway in the East Bay)
Cops and bystanders injured by flying debris
Incendiary devices left around
Stores in Oakland, San Francisco, and Berkeley smashed to bits, some burned
Many injuries to small business owners trying to protect their store, including this poor guy hit in the head by a hammer as he tried to defend his Radio Shack against looters (http://news.kron4.com/news/raw-video-berkeley-protester-attacks-man-with-a-hammer/).
I'm all for peaceful, meaningful protests. But these protesters around the country are nothing more than idiots looking to cause trouble (much the same way people use something like a World Series Championship to just burn, loot, riot, and act the fool).
Last week, protesters in the Bay Area tried to get people to not "give in to Black Friday" and to not shop on Black Friday as a way to send a message (what message would that be)? So a bunch of people handcuffed themselves together and to a Oakland-SF train so that it wouldn't go into the city.
BART and Muni have been shut down in various spots for hours upon hours during commutes. The commuter rail systems have been blocked during evening commutes, and so has Amtrak.
If there is ONE way to piss off the 99% of the rest of the people who WERE sympathetic to the cause, it's to have this 1% disrupt everyone else's lives to the extent their message gets completely lost.
All for peaceful protests/marches. Sit-ins. Dine-ins. Creative things like everyone lighting up their apartments in red in solidarity, or protesting *peacefully* in front of police HQ day AND night, camping out, wearing chokers around your neck, wearing hoodies as for Trayvon, etc. But please, the rest of us don't have the luxury of joining in your otherwise violent, disruptive meaningless crusades and we're all PISSED THE F OFF.
If the level of protests seen in more traditional violent protest cities (i.e. SF/Oakland, Seattle, Chicago, LA, Philly, etc) haven't reached Jax yet, it sure seems like it's coming....things only seem to be getting worse.
95 was at a full stop yesterday morning due to protesters.
Liberals love race baiting and confusion.
I'm a sucker for protests & general disorder to grab people's attention & ripping off the veil, but what exactly were they protesting? Mike Brown?? I saw some of them wearing shirts with "hands up don't shoot". Wasn't it pretty much established that this wasn't true, like at all? If so, then what are they doing??
In my mind, if you're hash tagging saying all lives matter, then going out & shutting down a bridge, walking in the middle of it, etc (which is all incredibly dangerous for everyone) & preventing fire trucks, ambulance drivers etc from saving people, then that's completely hypocritical.
Anyways, it seemed to be just a few kids giving in to social media hype & not thinking critically. Plenty of better ways to do it & get noticed besides endangering others. Why not protest against police & the industrial prison complex in general instead of common every day people. All you're going to do is alienate everyone.
Quote from: stephendare on December 09, 2014, 02:01:39 PM
If it is your 'right' to use the bridge, why can the cops shut it down for traffic control purposes?
Cox v. Louisiana
Quote from: peestandingup on December 09, 2014, 04:23:29 PM
I'm a sucker for protests & general disorder to grab people's attention & ripping off the veil, but what exactly were they protesting? Mike Brown?? I saw some of them wearing shirts with "hands up don't shoot". Wasn't it pretty much established that this wasn't true, like at all? If so, then what are they doing??
A lot of people are out there to be in the crowd, that's all.
The ones that are a bit more knowledgeable about the subject want justice. The thing is,
they got justice via the grand jury, they just didn't like the decision. I didn't exactly agree with the OJ trial, but it went down how it did, this is the system we have in place in this country.
I love protests.
But, not sure of the utility in making it harder for those trying to get to work......
Quote from: I-10east on December 09, 2014, 04:11:24 PM
Liberals love race baiting and confusion.
huh?
Quote from: fsquid on December 09, 2014, 04:47:51 PM
Quote from: stephendare on December 09, 2014, 02:01:39 PM
If it is your 'right' to use the bridge, why can the cops shut it down for traffic control purposes?
Cox v. Louisiana
If you're a legal dork, you can hear those oral arguments here: http://www.oyez.org/cases/1960-1969/1964/1964_24
Quote from: peestandingup on December 09, 2014, 04:23:29 PM
I'm a sucker for protests & general disorder to grab people's attention & ripping off the veil, but what exactly were they protesting? Mike Brown?? I saw some of them wearing shirts with "hands up don't shoot". Wasn't it pretty much established that this wasn't true, like at all? If so, then what are they doing??
In my mind, if you're hash tagging saying all lives matter, then going out & shutting down a bridge, walking in the middle of it, etc (which is all incredibly dangerous for everyone) & preventing fire trucks, ambulance drivers etc from saving people, then that's completely hypocritical.
Anyways, it seemed to be just a few kids giving in to social media hype & not thinking critically. Plenty of better ways to do it & get noticed besides endangering others. Why not protest against police & the industrial prison complex in general instead of common every day people. All you're going to do is alienate everyone.
"
I saw some of them wearing shirts with "hands up don't shoot". Wasn't it pretty much established that this wasn't true, like at all?"
Exactly.
(http://i.imgur.com/EEMiQjj.jpg)
The one on the bottom right apparently struck an officer & is being held on felony charges.
No way I'd join this crew. They look clueless.
Why are they not protesting demanding justice for Thomas McIntree's family?
^^^+1,000
Stephen is right (oh that's hard to say!) This is not a racial thing. Well, not really. True, these people wouldn't be protesting if the deceased was white, however, this affects all of us.
The police don't have too much power, they have too many laws that they can enforce. The problem isn't the police, the problem is the laws. They wouldn't have harassed him if he was selling cookies on the street.
Again, this is what happens when you get bigger government, you asked for it, here you go!
Autrelle, my man!!!!
Quote from: stephendare on December 09, 2014, 05:56:15 PM
Quote from: Jameson on December 09, 2014, 05:52:46 PM
Why are they not protesting demanding justice for Thomas McIntree's family?
I know you hate it when people get mad that the 'blacks' have been murdered by the cops, Jameson, but the national protests are about police procedure for everyone, not just a racial group.
If thats what they're doing, then the message honestly seems muddled & convoluted. They need better organization, to protest against more focused entities, stop the "shutitdown" stuff (that only harms people like themselves, not to mention gets them arrested). I still see protesters with their "hands up" as well in this & other cities. I know its prob more symbolic now, but it started with Mike Brown (which was false) & went from there. These started right after Ferguson, so I don't think its out of the realm to say a lot of protesters still think its because of that incident.
Like I said, focus, organize & protest against the right people.
Quote from: stephendare on December 09, 2014, 05:56:15 PM
Quote from: Jameson on December 09, 2014, 05:52:46 PM
Why are they not protesting demanding justice for Thomas McIntree's family?
I know you hate it when people get mad that the 'blacks' have been murdered by the cops, Jameson, but the national protests are about police procedure for everyone, not just a racial group.
Im pretty sure you will want some safeguards in place when cops are looking at the activities of right wing groups.
"
I know you hate it when people get mad that the 'blacks' have been murdered by the cops, Jameson"
You are so damn out of line with that comment.
You say it's not about race, but the mantra is #BlackLivesMatter not #AllLivesMatter. Why not "All Lives Matter" if this is truly about police procedure for everyone?
Because it isn't. The Mike Brown and Eric Garner cases have been hijacked by those who wish to make this about race (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the CBC, etc.) and the useful idiots that were part of the Occupy movement that have also latched on in all of the major cities to push their agenda.
None of those people represent me. They are doing me zero favors by "protesting".
For those of you who say "a black man was shot in so and so neighborhood, where are all the protests?" Here ya go:
http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/kwidget/wid/_557781/uiconf_id/20678232/entry_id/0_24osr4bw
http://www.news4jax.com/news/protests-block-streets-near-murder-scene/30164024
Best quote from the article:
Quote"What's changing is the validation for the life. Is it only valid or newsworthy when an officer does that in the line of duty? Absolutely not. Every loss of life is important."
Quote from: coredumped on December 11, 2014, 09:27:56 AM
For those of you who say "a black man was shot in so and so neighborhood, where are all the protests?" Here ya go:
One protest out of the hundreds of black on black crimes that have been comitted does not count as "all the protests".... but good for them. I did not watch that video but I'm certain Al or Jesse will not be protesting along side these folks. Im also sure Obama doesnt even know about this kid, much less will make mention of it.
Good to see Duval getting involved. I understand the protest. What I really love is the annoyed irritation that "some" feel....its good, now you CAN FEEL that same irritation many of us black guys have felt. That feeling of unfairness, that feeling of having to be good perfect black boys "carlton banks" types just to get our fair share. You people are really saying protesters should be struck by vehicles because traffic is backed up? Why is your life so important, but no one elses is? Just sit there, be apart of history and shut the fukk up. If some of you refuse to understand the point of view of the protesters, then you should be made to understand. This will come in making random people suffer, by stealing their time away from them. Hey at lease you didn't lose your life........
I'm SOOOOOOO sick of these protests. Really, at this point the vast majority of protesters are completely naive young liberal white people who have no clue about the world and are sociopathic to the point where they are using "protests" to incite violence, looting, and continued degradation of places already rife with strife.
I can't side with anyone even siding with the protests. Yesterday 2 undercover cops here in the Bay were "outed" as cops and the crowd turned on them, immediately, taking one to the ground. Meanwhile, the CHP was merely there to find the really bad perps and arrest them (along the route the whole crowd is yelling anti-semitic, anti-gay, AND misogynistic remarks and smashing windows and stealing store merchandise). It got intense enough where one officer had to pull out his gun to defend his partner and call for back up.
Of course the SF Chron had the headline of "Cop pulls out a Gun on Protesters" and you had to read the actual story to get the context, but judging from the comments in the reader section, people in the Bay Area have HAD IT.
I absolutely hate these protesters with all my might. They dilute the message and are all simply sociopaths looking for an opportunity/outlet to release their sociopathic tendencies. I'm waiting for the day the cops start using real force, you know, heads exploding and all. I guarantee you since there is only a TINY crowd of these idiots and most everyday citizens hate their guts that the protests will end immediately and people will be happy.
Quote from: peestandingup on December 09, 2014, 05:47:55 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/EEMiQjj.jpg)
The one on the bottom right apparently struck an officer & is being held on felony charges.
No way I'd join this crew. They look clueless.
Looks like a nice, well-intentioned crowd! They get it, we don't, therefore we should join them in "protesting" whatever it is they are protesting at this point. OMG Occupy Movement all over again. These people are all worthless as human beings. I honestly don't think they deserve a chance at anything. I hope none of them are taking handouts, however, we all know that's certainly not the case. Our incomes are all being reduced to support these losers and their activities.
^^^I feel your frustration with this superficial meme-esque 'activism'. It isn't any way that the majority of these protesters actually have a life. I know that you witnessed tons of f*ckery over there in Frisco. People are just trying to go on with their daily lives (normal commute, sporting events etc), and these jerkwads bring their gloomy and dismal existence upon everyone in their midst.
Introduced a noob activist to Beth at SOE today. She was inspired by the protest. Wants to put a referendum together to immediately dismiss police involved in the death of an unarmed citizen and treat them as a civilian. It'll never get on the ballot as it is. But give it a year or two and it will morph into something actionable and progressive. She's 23. She's the future.
Quote from: Coolyfett on December 11, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
Good to see Duval getting involved. I understand the protest. What I really love is the annoyed irritation that "some" feel....its good, now you CAN FEEL that same irritation many of us black guys have felt. That feeling of unfairness, that feeling of having to be good perfect black boys "carlton banks" types just to get our fair share. You people are really saying protesters should be struck by vehicles because traffic is backed up? Why is your life so important, but no one elses is? Just sit there, be apart of history and shut the fukk up. If some of you refuse to understand the point of view of the protesters, then you should be made to understand. This will come in making random people suffer, by stealing their time away from them. Hey at lease you didn't lose your life........
And making random people suffer will prove what? Doing so pulls people away from whatever "cause" they are pursuing. They are protesting because some stupid black kid robbed a store, attacked a cop and got what he deserved. Is this why many blacks are irritated? If so, good! Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I have tried to understand the point of these protests, Im fairly certain I have the gist of it #blacklivesmatter, "hands up don't shoot", etc. If this is the case, why don't we have protestors marching from Grand Park to City Hall every time a black is gunned down? DO their lives matter less than the idiots who rob a store and attack a cop? From what I gather, some folks on this site say its about the militarization of police (StephenDare Im sure you'll be commenting) . If so, why even bring race into the topic? Was MB shot by a bazooka? RPG? Did that evil white devil cop run over him with a Sherman Tank? Why even bring MB into the protest if that is what this is really about?
Quote from: stephendare on December 11, 2014, 09:35:34 PM
heavens to betsy, camarocane. You were 'suffering' because there was a traffic jam? Poor thing. Take those nasty terrible agitators away and torture them.
Imagine how Eric Garner felt, or the families of all those people murdered by cops with no fear of reprisals.
Why does it take you being held up in traffic to notice that other people are actually suffering?
Theres that passive aggressive StephenDare we all know and love :)
Never said I was suffering nor held up in traffic, Being "murdered" by a cop is just one opinion. Once again, if the cop tells you to get on the ground, don't argue... better yet, DONT BREAK THE LAW
If I see a protester, I'm going the other way. I'm black and these people do not represent me. Even though I'm not down with this selective outrage agenda, I'm actually okay with them protesting in a civilized manner in places like Hemming Park, but when you interfere with traffic, loot, burn down buildings, burn police cars etc etc, you are wrong!!! If you're black and doing violent actions, you're only giving into the nasty stereotypes.
I'm black, but I'm also an individual. One big problem in the black community is this 'hive mentality' in which everyone have to think the exact same way. This mentality is an extreme detriment to the black community. It's well known that black kids who speak good English are ridiculed by students and even teachers, as they are said to "Talk white". This mentality is the reason why we are last in everything (test scores, bad neighborhoods, violent crime etc).
Look at other ethnic groups, they put us to shame (Hispanics etc). Other immigrants neighborhoods have very little to virtually no violent crime, they help each others families, they don't litter their streets, no broken bus stop shelters etc. Look at any crime census, and it will back up everything what I'm saying with the ethnic crime stats. Do you think that I'm saying this because I'm proud of this shit?!!! You are sadly mistaken.
Quote from: stephendare on December 11, 2014, 09:46:05 PM
Quote from: camarocane on December 11, 2014, 09:42:32 PM
Quote from: stephendare on December 11, 2014, 09:35:34 PM
heavens to betsy, camarocane. You were 'suffering' because there was a traffic jam? Poor thing. Take those nasty terrible agitators away and torture them.
Imagine how Eric Garner felt, or the families of all those people murdered by cops with no fear of reprisals.
Why does it take you being held up in traffic to notice that other people are actually suffering?
Theres that passive aggressive StephenDare we all know and love :)
Never said I was suffering nor held up in traffic, Being "murdered" by a cop is just one opinion. Once again, if the cop tells you to get on the ground, don't argue... better yet, DONT BREAK THE LAW
Right. Until its you, or one of your children Camarocane.
When you bury one of them, perhaps they will say at the wake, well he was told to obey the cops at all times.....
Because you know, Cops are like Jesus Christ.
Just keep spinning it! Perhaps your right Stephen maybe the FEDs or JSO will target me and the Ramallah Club will protest with #arablivesmatter. But it will not be because I break the law... because well, I don't.
While I'm not as torn up about it as Simms, I share some of his points of view. Not that I don't support protests when its called for (Occupy did start out different, Simms), but I just can't get behind this & sure ain't gonna be guilted into doing so.
What's so odd is that this came outta left field. I get it, you're pissed, too many die, etc & its gone on for far too long. But its almost like some blacks are using the failings of a lot of their communities & taking it out on whites, all whites, like they're the cause of all their strife. And super lefty SJW whites are joining in because, well, that's what they do. Not knocking them for it & they're free to do whatever, but damn. Ultra leftists are giving far rights a run for their money in the crazy department lately. In media, blogs & forums, social media, etc. It's everywhere. I'm usually pretty left leaning, but I can't be the only one who's noticed it.
Anyways, at least the protesters linked above from Jax (the bus stop shooting) have the right idea. That needs to happen all day, every day, anytime there's a shooting/murder in these communities. Start self policing them if you have to. That would certainly go a lot further than hippies shaming cops in public that haven't done anything to deserve it.
The so called "innocent" citizens all seemed to be fighting back when they were "murdered". Which others would you be referring to?
I am definitely not comfortable with someone deciding to execute me. Fortunately that is just another one of your opinions as to what happened.
Stephen, believe me my friend I've been trying to wrap my head around this for quite some time. I appreciate your angle but I just don't see it.
Quote from: stephendare on December 11, 2014, 09:59:18 PM
Peestandingup: Believing in the sanctity of life and in the rule of Law and a trial by jury is what is at stake.
None of these issues or 'leftists', at least not to anyone that isn't a monarchist or a dictator.
I agree with that, really I do. And I understand that a lot of cases aren't as clear cut as the cops would want us to believe. I think we've spoken enough that you know my feelings on militarization of police & our plutocracy society.
On the other hand, I also recognize that if Im living the life of crime, and I mean hard crimes, looting, threatening people, getting into tussles with cops, trying to strip them of their guns, etc, then the outcome is that I'll probably eventually be killed (or seriously injured or in jail). And I wouldn't want anyone to protest it (no one likely would anyway) because honestly, why would they? If my intent is to take someone else's life (or cause them great bodily harm) & they kill me instead, then why be outraged about it?
It would be a shame, sure. But it would be the life I chose. I guess we could look at poverty, upbringing, social class, influences, etc to go deeper on the "why" & the "how", but still. In the end no one forced me.
life sucks, but a fucking helmet.
Quote from: camarocane on December 11, 2014, 10:11:40 PM
The so called "innocent" citizens all seemed to be fighting back when they were "murdered". Which others would you be referring to?
I am definitely not comfortable with someone deciding to execute me. Fortunately that is just another one of your opinions as to what happened.
Stephen, believe me my friend I've been trying to wrap my head around this for quite some time. I appreciate your angle but I just don't see it.
It is not an angle but an agenda.
Quote from: stephendare on December 11, 2014, 08:49:12 PM
Quote from: Coolyfett on December 11, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
Good to see Duval getting involved. I understand the protest. What I really love is the annoyed irritation that "some" feel....its good, now you CAN FEEL that same irritation many of us black guys have felt. That feeling of unfairness, that feeling of having to be good perfect black boys "carlton banks" types just to get our fair share. You people are really saying protesters should be struck by vehicles because traffic is backed up? Why is your life so important, but no one elses is? Just sit there, be apart of history and shut the fukk up. If some of you refuse to understand the point of view of the protesters, then you should be made to understand. This will come in making random people suffer, by stealing their time away from them. Hey at lease you didn't lose your life........
+1.
Sorry Simms, I'm glad that people protest and get involved and passionately care about their cities.
It was one of the things that I loved about living in San Francisco actually. And Paris for that matter. It makes you feel like regular people are viscerally connected to their cities.
Stephen - as a current now going on 3 year resident of San Francisco (how long were you here?), this is not how we are. This is NO different from the violence, looting, vandalism, riots, and arson that occurred after the Giants just won their 3rd World Series (I've been here for 2 of these things - how many Giants World Series championships were you around for?).
This is the same crowd that was involved in the now infamous Occupy showdown in Oakland a few years back. We're talking about the SAME ~5,000 ultra-violent and riled up anarchists that instigate and do all of these riots and "protests" that the Bay Area is so known for. There are over 8 MILLION more people in the Bay Area, and all indications are that the vast vast vast majority of these 8+ million people are sick of what's going on! And you can bet the vast majority of these 8 million people are liberal, considering the Bay Area is this country's most liberal area.
I wish you could see reality instead of the idealism in your mind.
Quote from: peestandingup on December 11, 2014, 09:55:47 PM
While I'm not as torn up about it as Simms, I share some of his points of view. Not that I don't support protests when its called for (Occupy did start out different, Simms), but I just can't get behind this & sure ain't gonna be guilted into doing so.
What's so odd is that this came outta left field. I get it, you're pissed, too many die, etc & its gone on for far too long. But its almost like some blacks are using the failings of a lot of their communities & taking it out on whites, all whites, like they're the cause of all their strife. And super lefty SJW whites are joining in because, well, that's what they do. Not knocking them for it & they're free to do whatever, but damn. Ultra leftists are giving far rights a run for their money in the crazy department lately. In media, blogs & forums, social media, etc. It's everywhere. I'm usually pretty left leaning, but I can't be the only one who's noticed it.
Anyways, at least the protesters linked above from Jax (the bus stop shooting) have the right idea. That needs to happen all day, every day, anytime there's a shooting/murder in these communities. Start self policing them if you have to. That would certainly go a lot further than hippies shaming cops in public that haven't done anything to deserve it.
Totally.
Quote from: peestandingup on December 11, 2014, 10:27:58 PM
Quote from: stephendare on December 11, 2014, 09:59:18 PM
Peestandingup: Believing in the sanctity of life and in the rule of Law and a trial by jury is what is at stake.
None of these issues or 'leftists', at least not to anyone that isn't a monarchist or a dictator.
I agree with that, really I do. And I understand that a lot of cases aren't as clear cut as the cops would want us to believe. I think we've spoken enough that you know my feelings on militarization of police & our plutocracy society.
On the other hand, I also recognize that if Im living the life of crime, and I mean hard crimes, looting, threatening people, getting into tussles with cops, trying to strip them of their guns, etc, then the outcome is that I'll probably eventually be killed (or seriously injured or in jail). And I wouldn't want anyone to protest it (no one likely would anyway) because honestly, why would they? If my intent is to take someone else's life (or cause them great bodily harm) & they kill me instead, then why be outraged about it?
It would be a shame, sure. But it would be the life I chose. I guess we could look at poverty, upbringing, social class, influences, etc to go deeper on the "why" & the "how", but still. In the end no one forced me.
Really Stephen? This is about the sanctity of the Trial by Jury, which is at risk?? Both of the major incidents went to trials by jury, where minorities and women and all sorts of "minority" groups (I'm sure at least one or more of the jurors was gay or lesbian!) came to a decision based on the facts at hand, many of such facts were not available to us, because we were not selected to RISK our own lives and leave our families and work to go to these highly controversial trials.
What's not being mentioned here, STEPHEN, is that the level of violence and backlash against these juries is going to do much much more to put Trial by Jury at risk. I know that at this point, I personally would do ALL in my power to avoid ever serving on such a jury. Why risk my life and be put in the position of being part of a team that acquits a white officer who shoots a black male?
Justice was served in my mind. I'm offended by all these people who are race baiting and saying otherwise. There are problems FAR DEEPER than these two trials. Many of these problems can't be "fixed" by white people and white people alone. They are intrinsic problems that will take a lot of understanding on all sides, time, and lots of effort almost exclusively by the people most touched and involved with such problems.
What I see here in the Bay Area is this: Asians come with no money and no English language skills, and within 1-3 generations they are going to Stanford and serving on boards and inventing things, contributing, etc. Asians, like ALL people, have been through the ringer. There is racism towards them, too. They still end up thriving and contributing without taking. There isn't an elevated level of anger, violence, and angst with them. They are the most intensely brilliant and hard working loose "race" of people (I say that loosely because in reality Asians are actually MORE diverse in their appearance and culture than most if not any other people).
So screw Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, these protesters, and the bums (white bums) I sat next to in Starbucks today while I did the best I could to work without power while they argued about why they should have free coffee and a place to stay (and the girl was talking about some instance where she wasn't going to share something with someone else, etc).
I am so OVER the lazy, the victim mentality, the entitled mentality, etc etc.
These protests have really wakened a sleeping giant of people just sick of it. What I like about liberals is that they really 99% of the time have the best intentions. They just want to help people. They put up with a lot of shit about their intentions or about the actual results, and even they themselves endure much frustration and lack of gratitute from people they have helped. But these kinds of protests I think, and feel, have really really touched a lot of nerves. I say that from ground zero of liberal land.
Quote from: stephendare on December 11, 2014, 09:35:34 PM
heavens to betsy, camarocane. You were 'suffering' because there was a traffic jam? Poor thing. Take those nasty terrible agitators away and torture them.
Imagine how Eric Garner felt, or the families of all those people murdered by cops with no fear of reprisals.
Why does it take you being held up in traffic to notice that other people are actually suffering?
Stephen, a 1-2 time light delay in Jax (relatively speaking) is not something absolutely horrible, and nobody is saying so. But what you can't do is put yourself in the shoes of people to whom it may be a big deal. You can't put yourselves in their shoes because you haven't had the same traditional high stress 9-5 type of job that many have.
What I can tell you from my personal experience is that if you're late to an appointment, late to meet a deadline, have to PEE really badly, have to GIVE BIRTH (as in the case of a woman here in the Bay Area), there will be some people who won't understand any excuse. These protests genuinely took a toll. Many times many people had difficulty getting home from work. Meetings were missed. Retailers lost business, and in many cases their stores.
It's almost as if the protesters are punishing the world for no reason. It's stupid, and enduring weeks of this wears on you. Come back if these things grow and become a thing in Jax and your life is disrupted day in and day out.
Quote from: stephendare on December 11, 2014, 09:35:34 PM
heavens to betsy, camarocane. You were 'suffering' because there was a traffic jam? Poor thing. Take those nasty terrible agitators away and torture them.
Imagine how Eric Garner felt, or the families of all those people murdered by cops with no fear of reprisals.
Why does it take you being held up in traffic to notice that other people are actually suffering?
This:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cziOFk5n9Fs
And again, "murder" is your opinion, not fact.
simms3, you are absolutely right. This is the second coming of the Occupy crowd which has latched on to the Ferguson and Garner tragedies in order to hijack them and push their agenda.
They don't want justice. They don't want peace. They don't want understanding. They don't want tolerance. They are useful idiots that want to sensationalize events because they are so desperate to be a "part" of something.
Point of protests made perfectly on FCC Friday Roundup: John Burr uses standard talking point, "Why didn't they protest the kid killed on the northside?" Caller informs him that there was a protest, but...no media.
Rather than the obligatory 20 second, the Hart Bridge Protesters got the first seven minutes of the newscast. They played the media's game and we've been talking about it all week. They dominated this week's newscycle. Otherwise, they would just have been another "drive by issue".
Not this time.
Quote from: stephendare on December 12, 2014, 10:36:58 AM
Sims the poster To whom I'm responding lives in Jacksonville not San Francisco. And I get it that you are inconvenienced, it's inconvenient. I lived in San Francisco for a couple of years, and it's common all over the city you should get out of the financial district more, LOL.
That's your response! I seem to recall somewhere on here where you lived there for 6 months. And much of the crazy s**t happens in the financial district and downtown area because it's DOWNTOWN, and no I don't live downtown, as most people don't. This sort of thing DOES NOT happen without the Occupy Movement hijacking it every few years or so. There are many peaceful protests and marches in the city for various issues (most of them downtown or near the Civic Center) that are not disruptive.
Most of the disruptive stuff affects the East Bay and I personally have not been affected, though know those who have. I am angry just watching it all go down, I can only imagine how I would feel IF I were indeed affected.
Want to know something else that will shock you? I live with a 5th generation San Franciscan who is a Republican! Quit claiming this place Stephen - people there, liberal, conservative, black, white, we're all sick of the bulls**t. It is the Occupy crowd all over again. Worthless people and you're apparently part of that worthless group of people.
Quote from: simms3 on December 12, 2014, 11:16:53 AM
It is the Occupy crowd all over again. Worthless people and you're apparently part of that worthless group of people.
somehow, I'm betting you wouldn't take so kindly to people type-casting you Simms
^^^I actually get type-casted on this very forum all the time, as Stephen just randomly did with his Ortega comment (just as Jax has such a hold overall on its people; once an Ortegan always one despite no ties whatsoever to the place and a decade absence from living there...so yea it gets old but I just let it slide). I'm pretty used to it actually.
But I get tired of Stephen romanticizing the hell out of a San Francisco that doesn't exist and speaking to it as if it's something he lives and breathes (as he does with sooo many places it seems). Some of the things I've heard him say about some places makes me question a few things...he sounds like my parents do when they talk about NYC - they just can't seem to understand that people don't want to live in the UES because that was the only place one comfortably could in the 70s. These places change...
And ftr (for Stephen), there are *very few* Jacksonville people here. I know of only a couple...they either followed the same path I did (school, job, etc) or came to SF just to be in SF the way people flock to Denver (one is gay and getting married, which you can't do in FL anyway). My pretty knowledgeable firsthand experience is that Jax is a very small community (duh...#s don't lie), that it's far far away and hard to get in and out of, specifically to/from the W Coast, which limits connections to the place, and not a lot of people actually get out of the city of Jax to begin with. Those that do tend to stay in the SE, or maybe do a stint in DC or NYC for a few years before oddly flocking back "home" to Jacksonville to settle down while still in their 20s.
So...this city you frequently speak to does not exist. And I don't know how long you lived there (I seem to remember 6 months but then you just said 2 years), nor do I know how long ago that was (though the mayor you reference, who was actually Democrat not Republican but perhaps "conservative" relative to the Communist Mayor Agnos before him...Agnos is sadly still around, was from the early 90s before tech was really even a big thing)...but the way you speak just irks me. And you have a good way of covering your ass, and talking out of it, but you know as well as I know there is a difference between some random vigil march, which occurs frequently in many cities, not just SF, and these violent crazy protests, which DON'T occur frequently and require the work of the Occupy crowd/anarchists, etc. You were mixing the two and I was attempting to separate them. But good job on your suave way of covering your ass and talking out of it at the same time. My injection of the "Republican" roommate was merely to point out to you that your romanticizing the place is merely some stereotype that isn't fully true. It was not to do anything different.
Also, tufsu1, you can stuff if. You and I will never agree on anything or get along, even if we were to meet in real life.
Quote from: peestandingup on December 09, 2014, 04:23:29 PM
I'm a sucker for protests & general disorder to grab people's attention & ripping off the veil, but what exactly were they protesting? Mike Brown?? I saw some of them wearing shirts with "hands up don't shoot". Wasn't it pretty much established that this wasn't true, like at all? If so, then what are they doing??
From DC today. Hands up? Check. Mike Brown poster? Check. So yeah, seems this is still a thing.
(http://i.imgur.com/kwn8UJW.jpg)