5 Reasons Why Regency Square Mall's Days Are Numbered
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3713399660_XHbvgVt-M.jpg)
10% of the nation's 1,000 enclosed malls are predicted to fail by 2022. Here's five reasons why Regency Square Mall will be one of them.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-dec-5-reasons-why-regency-square-malls-days-are-numbered
Based on the pictures, it is a ghost town already.
I am surprised it is even still open to be honest. It has been dying a slow death for over a decade. I grew up in St Pete and saw almost every enclosed mall on that side of the bay go the way that Regency is going. Not sure what the owners are going to ultimately do with the property but right now there is basically zero reason for me to go there.
The pictures are NOT representative of regency. They only show the west side, the east side of the mall is fairly full.
I know they moved several retailers to the east mall, but it's only a matter of time before the vacancies start piling up. Even now, there are several dark storefronts between Belk and JCPenney. When Belk leaves, if a retail traffic generating anchor isn't found to replace it quick, expect half of the east mall to go down. The place is definitely on life support.
And it's so much more pleasant to shop at the Town Center. There you have the fun of battling the elements, getting frustrated trying to find parking, and then walking forever to get to spread-out stores. Such an improvement over climate control, plenty of parking, and conveniently located stores in the "outdated" malls. And retailers are complaining because people shop more online? Duh.....
The open markets work well in California, but the weather is dry. South Coast Plaza is an enclosed mall, but hardly one that can be used to compare. I too hate the layout and parking. Not pedestrian friendly. Ever try to get to Target, and Dick's on the same parking spot?
^^ A free (or cheap) shuttle/tram/trolley/train would be nice...
Crime (mainly thievery) a subject that people always wanna duck and dodge, that's the main reason. Crime, and perception of crime is the top reason that most malls fail.
I've saw far worse than Regency around the country. Regency definitely have seen better days, but I wouldn't call Reg dead just yet with a core in the East Mall, and three anchors still open. Wanna talk about dead? Try Global Mall at the Crossing in Antioch, TN just outside of Nashville, with zero anchors (again, crime was the factor).
Quote from: gedo3 on December 02, 2014, 09:53:02 AM
And it's so much more pleasant to shop at the Town Center. There you have the fun of battling the elements, getting frustrated trying to find parking, and then walking forever to get to spread-out stores. Such an improvement over climate control, plenty of parking, and conveniently located stores in the "outdated" malls. And retailers are complaining because people shop more online? Duh.....
I just park by DSW or Dillards. I rarely have trouble finding a spot.
Complaining about where to park at a mall?
#firstworldproblems
Quote from: gedo3 on December 02, 2014, 09:53:02 AM
And it's so much more pleasant to shop at the Town Center. There you have the fun of battling the elements, getting frustrated trying to find parking, and then walking forever to get to spread-out stores. Such an improvement over climate control, plenty of parking, and conveniently located stores in the "outdated" malls. And retailers are complaining because people shop more online? Duh.....
God forbid that you actually have to walk.
The irony is that Regency was a major drain on downtown businesses and & helped (with changing consumer tastes and housing) which helped to abandon downtown and everything became run down & slummy in downtown JAX while Regency was wholesome and safe at night.
Now, downtown is many times safer than Regency and downtown is showing signs of life while Regency has turned into a half abandoned area that's very undesirable to shop, live, work or play.
When I see pictures of an abandoned Regency, I see ghosts of the past (not actual apparitions) of innocent teenagers hanging out at the mall, Christmas shoppers merrily going about their way buying what are now yesterdays' treasures, buying a suit for the first time, going from shop to shop looking for that perfect dress, buying just the right jewerly, nervously picking out an engagement ring to finding the latest in swimwear fashions for the annual opening of the beaches.
This was once how all of us shopped & now it's a dying way of life.
I look back at the 'Mall-ing of America' era with nostalgia though an era that I'm perfectly happy to see fade into memory.
Quote from: stephendare on December 02, 2014, 12:36:46 PM
Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on December 02, 2014, 12:26:20 PM
The irony is that Regency was a major drain on downtown businesses and & helped (with changing consumer tastes and housing) which helped to abandon downtown and everything became run down & slummy in downtown JAX while Regency was wholesome and safe at night.
Now, downtown is many times safer than Regency and downtown is showing signs of life while Regency has turned into a half abandoned area that's very undesirable to shop, live, work or play.
this is only partially true.
the onerous taxes placed on businesses downtown that were not assessed on businesses in the suburbs were a major cause of the dry rot downtown.
Indeed, there were many reasons for the decline of downtown and the rise of suburbia just as there are many reasons for the rebirth of our urban cores and suburbia in decline or at least, just another viable option but becoming less and less of the American Dream.
History is complicated and cultural change is not marked by the beginning and the end of a decade, i.e. The 60s, The 50s, The 80s, etc. it's easier to place timelines in neat little boxes as the rise of Regency was tipping point of downtown's decline and now Regency is fading into decline as downtown is on the rise and places like San Marco Square and the Shoppes of Avondale are thriving day & night. The St Johns Town Center, while suburban strip mall in many ways is trying to emulate what already exists in San Marco, just on more grandios level.
I hope Regency can be repurposed, even if it's not retail. It worked for the Grand Boulevard and Philips Mall locations.
Quote from: I-10east on December 02, 2014, 11:44:29 AM
Crime (mainly thievery) a subject that people always wanna duck and dodge, that's the main reason. Crime, and perception of crime is the top reason that most malls fail.
There's actually MORE crime at SJTC than at Regency (yes yes, I know, insert joke "that's because there's no one at Regency" but it's true).
On a related note, mashable has a great slideshow today of what American malls looked like in 1989 (warning, big hair ahead!):
http://mashable.com/2014/12/02/80s-shopping-malls/
For example, remember when smoking was allowed in malls:
(http://1.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Malls-700-41.jpg)
(http://1.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Malls-700-34.jpg)
Quote from: I-10east on December 02, 2014, 11:44:29 AM
I've saw far worse than Regency around the country. Regency definitely have seen better days, but I wouldn't call Reg dead just yet with a core in the East Mall, and three anchors still open.
You remember what happened when JCPenney left Gateway? Regency's east mall will deal with the exact same issue when Belk moves out in a few months. That leaves two anchors going the way of the dodo bird, Sears and JCPenney, to serve as the traffic generators for 1 million square feet of retail space in between. Oh, then there's Dilliards, which has been downgraded into an outlet store that doesn't have normal mall hours. Not exactly the recipe for success. Hopefully, some sort of decent retrofit can be done with the property when it's regional retailing days come to an end.
Quote from: coredumped on December 02, 2014, 01:04:46 PM
On a related note, mashable has a great slideshow today of what American malls looked like in 1989 (warning, big hair ahead!):
http://mashable.com/2014/12/02/80s-shopping-malls/
That is fantastic...and somewhat depressing. Because I remember going malls in the 80's. One of my favorite parts was walking by the McDuff Electronic store where they always had a video camera hooked up to one of the TV's. And making some sort of silly face.
McDuff Electronic....now that's a name I haven't heard in a while!
Quote from: coredumped on December 02, 2014, 01:04:46 PM
There's actually MORE crime at SJTC than at Regency (yes yes, I know, insert joke "that's because there's no one at Regency" but it's true).
Regency heyday w/crime compared to the current SJTC level of crime, I don't think that it's even close. I can imagine that the thieving decreased in Regency mainly because so many stores closed.
I don't care about the mall, but I do like the Dillard's clearance center. :( Better than Nordstrom Rack IMO.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 02, 2014, 02:23:24 PM
McDuff Electronic....now that's a name I haven't heard in a while!
San Dimas High School Football Rules.
Quote from: coredumped on December 02, 2014, 01:04:46 PM
On a related note, mashable has a great slideshow today of what American malls looked like in 1989 (warning, big hair ahead!):
http://mashable.com/2014/12/02/80s-shopping-malls/
*Almost* wore this same outfit to work today:
(http://1.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Malls-700-61.jpg)
Wow. Some great pics. Bringing back some 1989 memories...haha
Quote from: stephendare on December 02, 2014, 12:57:12 PM
true, but specifically the businesses downtown were crippled with special ad valorem taxes.
The spiral continued, and the taxes downtown continued to be raised as the revenues declined.
Wow revenues declined as taxes increased? That never happens, except when it fits the narrative.
Stephen can you provide some background on these additional taxes on DT. I was aware of the taxes that support DVI, but not any others such as the inventory tax you refer to.
Be honest, who had hair like this?
(http://timethemoment.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/035_galinsky.jpg?w=735)
There was a time we tucked those extra tight smedium t-shirts in...
(http://timethemoment.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/033_galinsky.jpg?w=735)
Read and see more: Flashback to the Timeless Malls of the 1980s - LightBox http://lightbox.time.com/2013/11/26/flashback-to-the-timeless-malls-of-the-1980s/#ixzz3KprgLRWe
Quote from: thelakelander on December 03, 2014, 07:03:29 AM
Be honest, who had hair like this?
(http://timethemoment.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/035_galinsky.jpg?w=735)
There was a time we tucked those extra tight smedium t-shirts in...
(http://timethemoment.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/033_galinsky.jpg?w=735)
Read and see more: Flashback to the Timeless Malls of the 1980s - LightBox http://lightbox.time.com/2013/11/26/flashback-to-the-timeless-malls-of-the-1980s/#ixzz3KprgLRWe
Radical dude!!!
Not to mention the drop in surrounding residential density. Here's the density of a few neighborhoods surrounding downtown in 1960 and what they are now:
1960
LaVilla - 12,000 people/sq mile
Hansontown - 26,000 people/sq mile
Sugar Hill - 18,000 people/sq mile
Durkeeville - 11,000 people/sq mile
Brentwood - 9,000 people/sq mile
Springfield (N of 8th) - 12,000 people/sq mile
Springfield (S of 8th) - 15,000 people/sq mile
DT Northbank - 3,000 people/ sq mile
2012
DT Northbank/LaVilla/Hansontown - 1,000 people/sq mile
Sugar Hill - 4,000 people/sq mile
Durkeeville - 6,000 people/sq mile
Brentwood - 5,000 people/sq mile
Springfield (N of 8th) - 4,000 people/sq mile
Springfield (S of 8th) - 4,000 people/sq mile
The old city limits of Jax has lost 50% of it's overall population since 1960. However, the loss has not been equally spread out over the old 30 square mile boundary. Most of it has been in the wholesale elimination of neighborhoods that were within walking distance of the Northbank. Add in the relocation of waterfront industry and the elimination of passenger rail and it's no wonder that the commercial district they supported ended up going down the tubes.
maybe a casino would work on the property since the poker room is such a big success
Regency would be a great location for New Hamsterdam.
Quote from: JECJAX on December 04, 2014, 10:30:27 AM
maybe a casino would work on the property since the poker room is such a big success
I would approve of this. Use the revenues to fix up the area and pay into the pension plan :) It would also bring in some out of towners which could spark some continuous life into the hotels.
I think Floridians are weakening on the gambling rejection vote, anyway. It's just a matter of time before some form of large, organized gambling comes our way.
Sears announced they are increasing store closures from 130 to 235, but haven't announced which stores. Any chance Regency might get the ax?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/04/us-sears-holdings-results-idUSKCN0JI12T20141204
I've always heard that Sears does well. In fact, when their was talk of demoing that part of the mall, sears was said to be a stand alone building.
They'll do well until the entire chain shuts down, which will probably happen faster than any of us expect.
Security Square Mall had the same problem up in Maryland. Eventually a Korean concern bought or leased 1 side of the mall and turned it into Seoul Plaza with an asian market, nail places, shopping and a mini food court upstairs. It was cool while it lasted but the Koreans got tired of being robbed nearly every night so the idea died quickly until only a couple of nail places were left and the pool parlour. Long story short, you may breathe life into an old mall but the rally is usually short lived.
There are a few malls in FLorida that have stood the test of time.
1956 - Westfield Southgate (Sarasota)
1956 - The Mall at 163rd Street (North Miami Beach)
1960 - Southland Mall (Cutler Bay "Miami-Dade County")
1962 - Dadeland Mall (Miami)
1963 - Coral Ridge Mall (Fort Lauderdale)
1965 - Edison Mall (Fort Myers)
1967 - Westshore Plaza (Tampa)
They tend to have a few things in common. They're in areas with favorable demographics and they've been reinvested in repeatedly over the years to keep them up to date with the latest retailing trends and preferences. Unfortunately, Regency doesn't have either of these things going for it.
Of all the reasons mentioned, the loss of Belks is a huge blow. I hope the new owners can keep it afloat but it's going to be a challenge. Regency is my go to place for getting in my daily walk when the weather is bad and there are a few of the merchants there I patronize on a regular basis but the West end is a ghost town.
Belk will close in two months. Article mentions that Regency's management have no perspective tenants to replace Belk. Instead, they'll close off the store, creating two separate malls. So going from JCPenney to Sears will require getting in your car and driving to the other side of the property or walking through the parking lot.
Potential tenants they'd would like to see move into Regency include a furniture store in Belk's space, a charter school, and an antique mall in the former Montgomery Ward space. Hmm, doesn't sound good for the future of retailing, IMO.
Belk to start Regency Square Mall 'moving sale' Sunday
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544494
The new owners need to go to sears and offer to help pay for their move to the old belk. If they could move sears then they could demo the "new" side of the mall and keep all the lively shops together.
(http://i.imgur.com/sdUeAvd.jpg)
Moving Sears (which is having its own corporate financial problems) to the Belk site would be complicated by Sears owning their current store site (and some parking?). Would have to work out some sort of property swap. But it does make sense.
After the demo' the west end - maybe they could bring back Annie-Tiques!
When you do not feel safe in a public place that should be for shopping, spending time with your family, etc...as a retail merchant your days are numbered. I do not blame the businesses for leaving. Ineffective management of shop lifting, displays and merchandise destroyed, gangs of hoodlums walking around swearing and acting out....what do you expect. The Avenues Mall is suffering the same fate and so is JAX Beach. My granddaughter and I went to JAX beach for the last Fair that was there, by 4:00PM we were literally being pushed off the side walk, knocked aside trying to get on rides and saw fist fights and heard swearing like an R rated film....I almost ran to my car to get her out of there. I have not been back since and will only go if the beach is NOT having an event. We have a BIG time drug ad gang problem in this City that is not being effectively addressed. People simply will not go to places that they do not feel safe in, period. My beloved City is rotting from the inside out.
Quote from: southernbellefla on December 20, 2014, 02:32:50 PM
When you do not feel safe in a public place that should be for shopping, spending time with your family, etc...as a retail merchant your days are numbered. I do not blame the businesses for leaving. Ineffective management of shop lifting, displays and merchandise destroyed, gangs of hoodlums walking around swearing and acting out....what do you expect. The Avenues Mall is suffering the same fate and so is JAX Beach. My granddaughter and I went to JAX beach for the last Fair that was there, by 4:00PM we were literally being pushed off the side walk, knocked aside trying to get on rides and saw fist fights and heard swearing like an R rated film....I almost ran to my car to get her out of there. I have not been back since and will only go if the beach is NOT having an event. We have a BIG time drug ad gang problem in this City that is not being effectively addressed. People simply will not go to places that they do not feel safe in, period. My beloved City is rotting from the inside out.
Having frequented the Avenues often, mostly for the food court, I do not see the hoodlum presence you speak of. Avenues has other issues and most of them are not related to the people frequenting it. If you have some stats to share, I would love to see them. Their Paul Blart presence is pretty visible and active.
The beach on the other hand..........
Quote from: southernbellefla on December 20, 2014, 02:32:50 PM
When you do not feel safe in a public place that should be for shopping, spending time with your family, etc...as a retail merchant your days are numbered. I do not blame the businesses for leaving. Ineffective management of shop lifting, displays and merchandise destroyed, gangs of hoodlums walking around swearing and acting out....what do you expect. The Avenues Mall is suffering the same fate and so is JAX Beach. My granddaughter and I went to JAX beach for the last Fair that was there, by 4:00PM we were literally being pushed off the side walk, knocked aside trying to get on rides and saw fist fights and heard swearing like an R rated film....I almost ran to my car to get her out of there. I have not been back since and will only go if the beach is NOT having an event. We have a BIG time drug ad gang problem in this City that is not being effectively addressed. People simply will not go to places that they do not feel safe in, period. My beloved City is rotting from the inside out.
The only thing I saw the Avenues overrun by when I was last there was hipster skater kids in nerd glasses.
Can't say I've ever seen this "cussing" element at the Avenues
Belk closes Regency store, fixtures now for saleQuoteBy Karen Brune Mathis, Managing Editor
Belk Inc. closed its Regency Square Mall department store at 9 p.m. Wednesday, ending another chapter at the aging mall as well as setting up the closure of the connection between the mall's east and west wings.
Today, some employees will be back — not to sell, but to pack up the little that's left.
The only remaining major sales are the fixtures. For the next several weeks, Hilco Fixed Asset Recovery will be on-site to sell the furnishings and fixtures used by Belk.
The store will be open 8 a.m.-6 p.m. Monday-Saturday and noon-6 p.m. Sunday.
Rex Killebrew, a consultant with Hilco, said the fixtures would be sold through March 12.
After that, mall management is expected to shut the store, which occupies the center of the Arlington mall at 9501 Arlington Expressway.
Mall visitors had passed through Belk to cross from one side to another, but when Hilco completes its sell-off, that connection closes and visitors will need to access the two sides from outside.
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544875
(http://rack.2.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzAyLzEwL2Y5L1Nub3d5QWJhbmRvLjA0ZmI4LmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTU3NXgzMjMjCmUJanBn/bbe76276/8d8/Snowy-Abandoned-Mall-Thumbnail-01.jpg)
I had the opportunity to walk through DeSoto Square Mall in Bradenton last Friday night. Regency's new owners purchased this shopping center and announced their intentions to revitalize it in late 2012. DeSoto was a sad sight. Doesn't look like it's been physically renovated since the 1990s. Mason put a furniture in the closed Dillards, but it doesn't draw any type of foot traffic to support the smaller shops inside the mall. A few months ago, it got hit with another large blow when Macy's closed their store in the center of the mall. Now it's left with two major chains that already have one foot in the grave (Sears and JCPenney). Most of what's left is empty (like Regency's west mall) or occupied by places most have probably never heard of. Here's a few pics from my cell phone:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-TqkQV8g/0/X2/IMG_20150612_175604-X2.jpg)
Closed Macy's
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-XZFwzc4/0/X2/IMG_20150612_180612-X2.jpg)
Dingy old tile throughout
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-SVMZcBT/0/L/IMG_20150612_180717-L.jpg)
Across from the Dillards, turned furniture store. Bittersweet for me, since I remember eating at a Morrison's/Piccadilly in this vicinity in the late 1980s.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-vjjgwHh/0/L/IMG_20150612_175821-L.jpg)
Closed storefronts at a mall entrance.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-FTJJC4v/0/X2/IMG_20150612_175654-X2.jpg)
The main corridor between Sears and JCPenney. Vacant storefronts are scattered throughout, however there are a few clusters of open shops and a food court that has seen better days.
With that said, if we're looking at DeSoto has a good example of revitalization, don't hold out much hope for Regency!
Am I missing something? Why are we so concerned that an outdated, unattractive, sprawling shopping mall eating up tons of land with gigantic street-front surface parking lots may be living its last days? Perhaps with the end of one life comes another with reuse/repurposing of the site. Arlington could be a nice place to live if the eye-sore and ultra-imposing Regency Mall area was redeveloped. Developers end up spending millions upon millions knocking down our forests around Jacksonville and building new because the policies in place make that the more attractive option. Need to incentivize alternative growth patterns (infill) and start fixing up and redeveloping what's already there like Charlotte and Orlando are doing.
Also, for those who are complaining about the parking at the Town Centre, it is because too many high traffic and big box stores in one small area are relying too heavily on surface parking. I'm not a huge fan of the Town Centre, many flaws including too much surface parking not enough garages hidden behind the stores, but certainly an improvement over Regency. Garages cost a lot of money but if planned properly can add a lot of value to a large development. The TC is also sandwiched up against the freeway with no way out in that direction which adds to the horrendous traffic issues.
Quote from: CCMjax on June 16, 2015, 11:40:11 AM
Am I missing something? Why are we so concerned that an outdated, unattractive, sprawling shopping mall eating up tons of land with gigantic street-front surface parking lots may be living its last days? Perhaps with the end of one life comes another with reuse/repurposing of the site. Arlington could be a nice place to live if the eye-sore and ultra-imposing Regency Mall area was redeveloped.
Or it could end up like Gateway. It's been over 20 years since JCPenney sent that mall into a downward spiral, abandoning it for an outdoor shopping center further out from the city. Norwood is still waiting for that big successful redevelopment scheme to become reality.
QuoteDevelopers end up spending millions upon millions knocking down our forests around Jacksonville and building new because the policies in place make that the more attractive option. Need to incentivize alternative growth patterns (infill) and start fixing up and redeveloping what's already there like Charlotte and Orlando are doing.
Both of those cities are sprawling outward more rapidly than Jax could ever imagine. In 1995, there were only two interchanges and a load of orange groves on I-4 between US 27 and Lake Buena Vista. Now there's seven and development like Celebration, Championsgate, Reunion Resorts, Posner Park, etc. popping up around all of them. I travel back home to Central Florida quite often and it feels like every trip, I notice something fairly large going vertical that I hadn't seen before. With that said, although sprawling, both Orlando and Charlotte have found ways to avoid poisoning their downtowns during the same era.
Regency Square Mall seems to be heading in its only feasible direction: Half of it will remain a retail mall, the rest will be offices, schools, churches, etc. There's simply not enough retail to support the full mall now that we've got so many other options.
QuoteDevelopers end up spending millions upon millions knocking down our forests around Jacksonville and building new because the policies in place make that the more attractive option. Need to incentivize alternative growth patterns (infill) and start fixing up and redeveloping what's already there like Charlotte and Orlando are doing.
Both of those cities are sprawling outward more rapidly than Jax could ever imagine. In 1995, there were only two interchanges and a load of orange groves on I-4 between US 27 and Lake Buena Vista. Now there's seven and development like Celebration, Championsgate, Reunion Resorts, Posner Park, etc. popping up around all of them. I travel back home to Central Florida quite often and it feels like every trip, I notice something fairly large going vertical that I hadn't seen before. With that said, although sprawling, both Orlando and Charlotte have found ways to avoid poisoning their downtowns during the same era.
[/quote]
True, those two cities do continue to sprawl, just like about every other city, but the difference is that it seems to be matched with just as much compact infill development in the heart of the city and inner neighborhoods if you have been to either one lately. There is a lot of sprawling suburban style development in Jax but almost no smart infill going on (with the exception of the Brooklyn area). Very few living options for young professionals other than suburban style apartments. Not very attractive for young people who didn't grow up here (or even those that did). This brings up a question I've had ever since moving to Jax . . . why are there not more apartment options in the north San Marco area between South Bank and the square? Seems like a pretty cool place for a young professional to live, and there are some large vacant lots, but not many apartment options for its location. I'm convinced that so many people live in the apartments in the Southpointe/Tinsletown area simply because there aren't any other options south of the downtown, not because they truly like the 8 lanes of backed up traffic on Southside Blvd, or because they really like having to get in their car and waiting 15 minutes in traffic to get to the other side of the street.
Quote from: CCMjax on June 16, 2015, 02:29:44 PMI'm convinced that so many people live in the apartments in the Southpointe/Tinsletown area simply because there aren't any other options south of the downtown, not because they truly like the 8 lanes of backed up traffic on Southside Blvd, or because they really like having to get in their car and waiting 15 minutes in traffic to get to the other side of the street.
This is how I ended up off Southside Blvd when I first moved to town. I wanted to stay in or near DT but the amount of available rental stock that I preferred was not available to my liking.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 16, 2015, 08:22:39 AM
I had the opportunity to walk through DeSoto Square Mall in Bradenton last Friday night. Regency's new owners purchased this shopping center and announced their intentions to revitalize it in late 2012. DeSoto was a sad sight. Doesn't look like it's been physically renovated since the 1990s. Mason put a furniture in the closed Dillards, but it doesn't draw any type of foot traffic to support the smaller shops inside the mall. A few months ago, it got hit with another large blow when Macy's closed their store in the center of the mall. Now it's left with two major chains that already have one foot in the grave (Sears and JCPenney). Most of what's left is empty (like Regency's west mall) or occupied by places most have probably never heard of......
With that said, if we're looking at DeSoto has a good example of revitalization, don't hold out much hope for Regency!
One more shot of DeSoto Square, from last Friday. This was Dillards. Mason filled this space with a furniture store:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Business/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-PsPZDhF/0/L/DSCF6457-L.jpg)
I was in Milwaukee last week and stayed in a downtown shopping mall that had portions of the attached buildings converted into apartments. The mall wasn't necessarily hopping but it seemed to be surviving alright with the fairly prime location and the inherent foot traffic under the same roof. I was intrigued and just did a little bit of research:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shops_of_Grand_Avenue
http://www.jsonline.com/business/shopping-for-an-apartment-development-planned-at-grand-avenue-uq6coqh-165347526.html
It's obviously not the same situation as Regency at all, but with the struggles of all enclosed malls, downtown or not, it's interesting to see how this place is treading water. Looks like there are ~230 rental units in addition to the office space, university classrooms, and YMCA. And I shopped at the recently-added TJ Maxx, which looked like it was originally intended for an open-air marketplace within the mall. Strangest store I've been in, but it works I guess. Also bought fruits and veggies from the fresh produce stand in front of the TJ Maxx.
I always thought that, if downtown ever got its act together, Regency would be the perfect site for a big mixed residential and commercial development with a train station and possibly a bus station (kind of like Ørestad in Copenhagen).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ørestad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98restad)
Quote from: thelakelander on June 16, 2015, 05:36:22 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 16, 2015, 08:22:39 AM
I had the opportunity to walk through DeSoto Square Mall in Bradenton last Friday night. Regency's new owners purchased this shopping center and announced their intentions to revitalize it in late 2012. DeSoto was a sad sight. Doesn't look like it's been physically renovated since the 1990s. Mason put a furniture in the closed Dillards, but it doesn't draw any type of foot traffic to support the smaller shops inside the mall. A few months ago, it got hit with another large blow when Macy's closed their store in the center of the mall. Now it's left with two major chains that already have one foot in the grave (Sears and JCPenney). Most of what's left is empty (like Regency's west mall) or occupied by places most have probably never heard of......
With that said, if we're looking at DeSoto has a good example of revitalization, don't hold out much hope for Regency!
One more shot of DeSoto Square, from last Friday. This was Dillards. Mason filled this space with a furniture store:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Business/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-PsPZDhF/0/L/DSCF6457-L.jpg)
Just got a for sale flyer on this property. Claiming 71% Occ and $10 net rents. Does not sound like the pictures look.
Hmm. A 30% vacancy rate isn't exactly the definition of healthy for a 42-year-old enclosed shopping center. Especially, considering University Town Center just opened up on the other side of town (Macy's, DeSoto's largest anchor just closed and relocated to UTC) and that most of the specialty shops are high turnover makeshift storefronts (like the mall inside the Landing). You're essentially a Sears or JCPenney closure/relocation to the new mall from having that vacancy rate spike through the roof. If you have the cash to invest, there's better deals out there, IMO.
QuoteIn a widely quoted report, Green Street Advisors has forecast that 10% of the nation's 1,000 enclosed malls will fail by 2022, eventually converting to uses other than retail. Age appears to be a contributing factor. Of more than 200 malls and large U.S. shopping centers with 250,000 rentable square feet or higher that are hampered by vacancy rates of 35% or higher -- a clear marker for shopping center distress -- 86.5% were built before 2000, according to CoStar Group data.
Of these distressed regional mall, power center and community center properties, 43.5% were built in the 1970s and '80s, another one-quarter were built in the 1990s, and 17.5 % were built in the 1960s and prior. The average center in the distressed group was built in 1983 and had a vacancy rate of 50.6%.
Full article: http://www.costar.com/News/Article/The-De-Malling-of-America-Whats-Next-for-Hundreds-of-Outmoded-Malls-/141980
Quote from: thelakelander on June 16, 2015, 08:22:39 AM
I had the opportunity to walk through DeSoto Square Mall in Bradenton last Friday night. Regency's new owners purchased this shopping center and announced their intentions to revitalize it in late 2012. DeSoto was a sad sight. Doesn't look like it's been physically renovated since the 1990s. Mason put a furniture in the closed Dillards, but it doesn't draw any type of foot traffic to support the smaller shops inside the mall. A few months ago, it got hit with another large blow when Macy's closed their store in the center of the mall. Now it's left with two major chains that already have one foot in the grave (Sears and JCPenney). Most of what's left is empty (like Regency's west mall) or occupied by places most have probably never heard of. Here's a few pics from my cell phone:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-TqkQV8g/0/X2/IMG_20150612_175604-X2.jpg)
Closed Macy's
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-XZFwzc4/0/X2/IMG_20150612_180612-X2.jpg)
Dingy old tile throughout
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-SVMZcBT/0/L/IMG_20150612_180717-L.jpg)
Across from the Dillards, turned furniture store. Bittersweet for me, since I remember eating at a Morrison's/Piccadilly in this vicinity in the late 1980s.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-vjjgwHh/0/L/IMG_20150612_175821-L.jpg)
Closed storefronts at a mall entrance.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/DeSoto-Square-Mall-Bradenton/i-FTJJC4v/0/X2/IMG_20150612_175654-X2.jpg)
The main corridor between Sears and JCPenney. Vacant storefronts are scattered throughout, however there are a few clusters of open shops and a food court that has seen better days.
With that said, if we're looking at DeSoto has a good example of revitalization, don't hold out much hope for Regency!
My parents live in Sarasota and I usually visit them once a year. Last year we went to a mall - it may have been this one - that was practically empty. And it had an ice rink in one of the spaces. Weird. Very depressing.
So Belk is going to be a church and the west mall is going to be filled by International Décor Outlet vendors and an auto museum? It will be interesting to see how this mix plays out.
QuoteBy Karen Brune Mathis, Managing Editor
International Décor Outlet confirmed Monday it has signed a lease for 200,000 square feet of retail space in Regency Square Mall.
"We are taking over the entire west wing," said Sarah Verus, director of operations for Jacksonville-based International Décor Outlet.
She said the company will hold the master lease on the space and sublease it to international manufacturers and retailers who will set up showrooms to sell directly to consumers.
Verus estimates there will be about 57 units at Regency and expects construction to start on the spaces early next year.
"That is going to be filled in over the next year. We intend to fill up that space," she said.
She would not comment on lease terms.
Mall owner Mason Asset Management of Great Neck, N.Y., announced the lease Monday. Executives there did not return an email or telephone call for comment Monday.
The West Mall stretches from the former central-mall Belk space, now empty, west to the Sears store. The former Belk space is not included in the International Décor Outlet lease.
Celebration Church posted on its website that it plans a campus in the Belk space called "Celebration Regency."
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546584
Love the auto museum. Should also include a bulldozer and allow patrons to ride through the mall taking out old shops.
From
http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546781
50 years ago this week:
• An all-day groundbreaking ceremony for Regency Square Mall, near the intersection of the Arlington Expressway and Atlantic Boulevard, began with a breakfast for 175 business leaders at the Thunderbird Inn hosted by Martin and Joan Stein, owners of the shopping center.
The day ended in a pouring rain as Gov. Haydon Burns and Joan Stein broke ground with chrome-plated shovels.
Burns, who was celebrating the first anniversary of his inauguration, said he never imagined Jacksonville would have air-conditioned streets Downtown.
"But you've come pretty close to it in Regency Square," he said.
The first major enclosed mall in the city, Regency Square would be the largest air-conditioned shopping center in the Southeast when it opened, scheduled in 1967.
Mayor Lou Ritter paid tribute to the Stein family for its contributions to the community.
"They are giving us the great things we need to make the Jacksonville area a regional center," he said.
While these things come and go in phases, it is interesting to me how quickly the citizenry has abandoned air conditioned malls in Florida and the desert Southwest for scorching sidewalks in faux 'town centers.' The creators of the faux fad apparently are for the most part too young to recall the wonderful canopies, porches and overhangs on the real downtown buildings. At least in 2 large malls in the Southwest included fixed transit with heritage open trolley cars. Since we seem to be more of a Walmart type market then a Saks 5Th my guess is we'll never see that in Jacksonville. Be interesting to see how long this trend lasts until some frustrated shopper decides this isn't the most comfortable way to go.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on January 04, 2016, 05:19:07 PM
While these things come and go in phases, it is interesting to me how quickly the citizenry has abandoned air conditioned malls in Florida and the desert Southwest for scorching sidewalks in faux 'town centers.' The creators of the faux fad apparently are for the most part too young to recall the wonderful canopies, porches and overhangs on the real downtown buildings. At least in 2 large malls in the Southwest included fixed transit with heritage open trolley cars. Since we seem to be more of a Walmart type market then a Saks 5Th my guess is we'll never see that in Jacksonville. Be interesting to see how long this trend lasts until some frustrated shopper decides this isn't the most comfortable way to go.
Retail doesnt want to pay such high CAM charges in their mall leases. So they went to strip malls.
So developers merged the indoor mall with the strip mall and created town centers, which essentially are strip malls facing each other.
Best of both worlds in rent, worse of both worlds in convenience. Its not about the consumer you know, its about the bottom line.
Seems like things have come full circle. The open air "town centers" we see today aren't much different than the open air shopping centers that sprouted up around the country a decade before the enclosed mall took over.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 04, 2016, 07:31:10 PM
Seems like things have come full circle. The open air "town centers" we see today aren't much different than the open air shopping centers that sprouted up around the country a decade before the enclosed mall took over.
Agreed. Oakbrook Center in Oakbrook, Illinois and Northgate Center in Seattle all started off as "open air" malls in the 1950's.
Oakbrook is now semi-enclosed (about half is open/ half is inside) and Northgate built a massive roof overhead in the 70's.
I don't look at differing mall types as 'fads' like many do in the present day, like this supposed theory; The early ultra urban department stores like May Cohens, to the indoor suburban shopping mall phase like Regency, to the outdoor suburban phase like the SJTC, and now back to the core with the urban shopping. In modern day present times, one shopping environment don't really have nothing to do with the other two (In the past that was the case), all three can be successful.
The decline of SOME indoor shopping malls is all about shifting demographics (not always necessarily racially, but moreso a class issue). Malls don't close because of 'being too dim, no breeze' and other nonsense; In many cases the so called 'outdated indoor mall on the way out' is renovated but still fails because of demographic issues.
What's your reasoning for enclosed malls failing, only to be converted into outdoor strip centers/lifestyle centers and being successful again? You probably have just as many of these situations across the country as new centers being built from the ground up. Here's one of example that challenges your position:
Winter Park Mall
Before:
(https://www.floridamemory.com/fpc/commerce/c679219.jpg)
After:
(http://www.shopwinterparkvillage.net/wp-content/gallery/photo-gallery-page/WPV-Aerial.JPG)
Quote from: I-10east on January 05, 2016, 12:26:10 AM
I don't look at differing mall types as 'fads' like many do in the present day, like this supposed theory; The early ultra urban department stores like May Cohens, to the indoor suburban shopping mall phase like Regency, to the outdoor suburban phase like the SJTC, and now back to the core with the urban shopping. In modern day present times, one shopping environment don't really have nothing to do with the other two (In the past that was the case), all three can be successful.
The decline of SOME indoor shopping malls is all about shifting demographics (not always necessarily racially, but moreso a class issue). Malls don't close because of 'being too dim, no breeze' and other nonsense; In many cases the so called 'outdated indoor mall on the way out' is renovated but still fails because of demographic issues.
Dixie Square Mall in Harvey Illinois is a good example of a mall failing due to changing demographics. It was closed after only 13 years. Also famous because it was used in the movie Blues Brothers.
Randall Park Mall outside Cleveland is another good example.
Randall Park Mall was surpassed by a town center format mall less than 10 miles away.
Dixie Square wasnt replaced as much as the demographic left Harvey so quickly. If anything Lincoln Mall in Matteson would be its replacement. Its a traditional mall in every sense.
Yorktown Mall in Lombard Illinois was near death, but a new owner bought it and completely revitalized it and brought in 2 new anchors. But it took almost 10 years to turn it around.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 05, 2016, 06:36:33 AM
What's your reasoning for enclosed malls failing, only to be converted into outdoor strip centers/lifestyle centers and being successful again? You probably have just as many of these situations across the country as new centers being built from the ground up. Here's one of example that challenges your position:
I still think that the number of failed indoor malls due to demo shifts heavily outweighs any old indoor mall to lifestyle center changes. I don't know when that old pic was taken of the Winter Park Mall, but it looked extremely outdated, even moreso than Gateway's Mall. Had they even have a renovation as a indoor mall (before the lifestyle phase)? Although not every economy is as resilient as the touristy Orlando area economy.
I'm not denying that lifestyle phases with some dead indoor malls could prove to be a success; That maybe what the Doc ordered for Regency. Just looking at the lifestyle center vs an indoor mall (for a business point of view, not one from a humanitarian) I can see how it (lifestyle center) has an advantage, is it pretty much forces one to shop, and deters any 'hanging around' that can occur inside of an indoor mall.
Quote from: I-10east on January 05, 2016, 12:10:13 PM
I still think that the number of failed indoor malls due to demo shifts heavily outweighs any old indoor mall to lifestyle center changes.
From what I've seen over the last 20 years, I'd say they're more equal that heavily weighted either way. It's almost a case-by-case basis. If the demographics are receptive, many developers convert the failed indoor malls into outdoor centers. Jax's Roosevelt Square is an example of this. If there's a demographic shift and a main anchor or two close, the older smaller indoor mall typically fails. Gateway would fall in this category.
QuoteI don't know when that old pic was taken of the Winter Park Mall, but it looked extremely outdated, even moreso than Gateway's Mall. Had they even have a renovation as a indoor mall (before the lifestyle phase)? Although not every economy is as resilient as the touristy Orlando area economy.
That pic was from when the mall first opened. It had been updated a few times before it was converted into a lifestyle center in the 1990s. In its case, increased competition from newer, larger malls, like Altamonte, ultimately killed it. The center today, has more restaurants and entertainment uses and less retail than the original concept. This tends to be the case for most renovated and newer centers successfully operating today.
QuoteI'm not denying that lifestyle phases with some dead indoor malls could prove to be a success; That maybe what the Doc ordered for Regency. Just looking at the lifestyle center vs an indoor mall (for a business point of view, not one from a humanitarian) I can see how it (lifestyle center) has an advantage, is it pretty much forces one to shop, and deters any 'hanging around' that can occur inside of an indoor mall.
I can see it the O&M being much cheaper for the developer because they would not have to operate and maintain a non-revenue producing enclosed pedestrian promenade.
Quote from: stephendare on January 05, 2016, 12:57:18 PM
The area is still not a great destination for either food or entertainment, despite having the demographics that would support it, given a careful reappraisal of the tastes and needs of the area.
Nailed it right on the head there Stephen. The area is very densely populated with everything from section 8 housing to million dollar homes. The residents of Arlington drive past Regency on their way to the town center. They're spending money, just not at Regency. As you put it, it's going to take a radical redesign to bring it back.
That's not to say Arlington residents don't shop in their neighborhood - go to chik-fil-a, moes, grinders, university diner, home depot, lowes, bealls and target in the area and you'll find it full of local residents. But they really need a reason to go in to the mall itself, and regency hasn't done so.
What's the deal with the Int'l Decor Outlet? Is it ever gonna come, or what?
Indoor malls are dying because many can't generate the sales psf to support the lease rates and CAM malls demand.
Strip malls are much cheaper psf and the CAM is negligible.
Those mall tenants have to pay CAM which covers the indoor A/C, the plants and beautification of the halls and the parking lot upkeep, security, etc.
Strip mall tenants pay for the space, pay for their A/C and small CAM to cover signage and parking lot upkeep.
This has reduced many malls to tenants that have such high margins, they can survive relative slowdowns in foot traffic. This includes jewerly stores, sports footwear, etc.
On top of that, people are refusing to pay full or near full price for clothing. "off mall" chains like Marshalls, Kohls can undercut mall pricing easily.
Indoor Malls are a trend in retail that has come and is now leaving. The "town center" approach, which essentially is a collection of strip malls bundled together, makes the best of both worlds.
These enclosed malls are really gonna have to reinvent themselves, with many of these traditional anchor department stores closing like JCP, Sears etc. I still think that it's possible for these mall types to thrive, just gotta be creative/safe/good municipal economy.
I don't understand why the SJTC didn't install some sort of tram system to transport people from one end of its vastness tot he other. Instead we are left to deal with the congestion and parking that everyone hates. How easy it would have been to run something around the major sections so that you could just park and stay.. just taking the tram/trolley to go from one sector to the other and then back to your car.
Now everything is so spread out you park/shop/leave.. park/shop/leave.. park/shop/leave.
Quote from: I-10east on March 13, 2017, 02:37:57 PM
These enclosed malls are really gonna have to reinvent themselves, with many of these traditional anchor department stores closing like JCP, Sears etc. I still think that it's possible for these mall types to thrive, just gotta be creative/safe/good municipal economy.
Here's a new one in Miami...
(http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/real-estate-news/q3kwf/picture111847627/ALTERNATES/FREE_960/brickel5%20centre%20lnew%20cmg%20(1))
(http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/real-estate-news/wff01l/picture111847632/ALTERNATES/FREE_960/brickell4%20centre%20lnew%20cmg%20(1))
(http://arquitectonica.com/geo/wp-content/blogs.dir/3/files_mf/bccsiteplan_2000X1285Q80.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5V3fZTW.jpg)
Instead of traditional, it's mixed use with one traditional mall anchor (Saks Fifth Avenue), a food hall and a lot of restaurants.
Full article: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article111847637.html
Mall map and directory: http://www.brickellcitycentre.com/whats-here/directory
Quote from: thelakelander on March 13, 2017, 05:18:35 PM
Quote from: I-10east on March 13, 2017, 02:37:57 PM
These enclosed malls are really gonna have to reinvent themselves, with many of these traditional anchor department stores closing like JCP, Sears etc. I still think that it's possible for these mall types to thrive, just gotta be creative/safe/good municipal economy.
Here's a new one in Miami...
(http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/real-estate-news/q3kwf/picture111847627/ALTERNATES/FREE_960/brickel5%20centre%20lnew%20cmg%20(1))
(http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/real-estate-news/wff01l/picture111847632/ALTERNATES/FREE_960/brickell4%20centre%20lnew%20cmg%20(1))
(http://arquitectonica.com/geo/wp-content/blogs.dir/3/files_mf/bccsiteplan_2000X1285Q80.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5V3fZTW.jpg)
Instead of traditional, it's mixed use with one traditional mall anchor (Saks Fifth Avenue), a food hall and a lot of restaurants.
Full article: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article111847637.html
Mall map and directory: http://www.brickellcitycentre.com/whats-here/directory
Doesn't look too unlike Westfield Stratford City in London.
One day when online retail has taken over, outdoor shopping malls like the Town Center will be so much easier to redevelop for mixed use.
Yesterday I found out about a very outlandish plan for the Regency mall. I'd give it less than 1% chance but if they can pull it off will be very interesting.
Care to share the details?
Nice pics Adam. That complex in MIA seems like an ideal urban mixed use plan.
Quote from: coredumped on March 13, 2017, 10:06:55 PM
Care to share the details?
It's something that may not have mass appeal, but would definitely appeal to me.
Sorry other than that, I don't think I should say anymore. They're trying to negotiate it right now...I'd hate to potentially affect those discussions in any way.
Hmm, to add more intrigue I'll say it's something that I've seen discussed at least twice before, but always highly unlikely to happen imo.
Quote from: I-10east on March 13, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
Nice pics Adam. That complex in MIA seems like an ideal urban mixed use plan.
Those are Lake's pictures :)
I've got no issue with indoor malls - I think they can be great when they are in the right place and have the right mix of retailers. I can see one doing well if its integrated into the fabric of the area - not like a big box surrounded by massive parking lots. Although there are definitely some aspects of the St Johns Town Center that I like (which says a lot, as I was completely skeptical when it was announced), I do sometimes think it's better in theory than in execution.
It is really a unique property due to the size of it (1.4 million sq ft of retail space alone) and location near a city center. I wonder if something like a data center could ever go there from an Amazon, Google, Microsoft, etc., where they have space to store servers and some offices. Also lots of space to expand.
Quote from: FlaBoy on March 14, 2017, 04:31:09 PM
It is really a unique property due to the size of it (1.4 million sq ft of retail space alone) and location near a city center. I wonder if something like a data center could ever go there from an Amazon, Google, Microsoft, etc., where they have space to store servers and some offices. Also lots of space to expand.
As someone who manages a data center, I wouldn't use that facility for one. I like that you're thinking big but it's not well suited to a single tenant data center. The building's shape is way too irregular and it's an inefficient use of space per employee (data centers are not a body dense enterprise). And if a new building is in order, they may as well build that somewhere in the periphery of town.
A mixed use TOD with retail, housing, office and public would be a better reuse of the location. The building as it is needs to come down.
I think something more resembling Roosevelt Mall -> Roosevelt Square would make more sense. Perhaps not as much retail, but I mean more of a wholesale redevelopment of the property.
JC Penney list of closings:
Jacksonville Regional Shopping Center Jacksonville FL
Where is that?
Northside at Lem Turner and Dunn. That's the old Gateway Mall JCPenney. They abandoned that mall, putting the final nail in its coffin for the strip mall location they're closing now.
^^ Thanks. I guess Regency dodged a bullet then. BTW, the JCP in Palatka Mall is the only other FL closing.
This needs to happen...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/dos0711/Town%20%20Country%20and%20Regency%20Reimagined_zpsggdw7cvr.jpg)
Quote from: dos0711 on March 28, 2017, 10:57:50 AM
This needs to happen...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/dos0711/Town%20%20Country%20and%20Regency%20Reimagined_zpsggdw7cvr.jpg)
This level of redevelopment won't happen in a generation or two.
I think town and country would happen first. It's location to downtown, the bridge and the river are ideal for a destination shopping center.