Homeless, vagrants and needy selling their EBT cards so local merchants can pad their sales.
I think this sums it up pretty well...
QuoteWhy would the person needing government benefits sell the card?
"It's free money," said Cook. "It didn't cost them anything to get it, so it doesn't cost anything for them to lose it
http://www.news4jax.com/news/ebt-fraud-steals-millions-in-taxpayer-dollars/29640166
I think the point is it's being abused.
We offer too much money to people to NOT work in this country, it's amazing that anyone works at all.
^^^Give the crooked convenience store clerks some medals then, geez...
Back during Katrina, my employer was asked to supply $500 and $1000 debit cards paid for by FEMA to people who were displaced by the flooding. This was to make sure that the needy were getting adequate cash to meet their needs during an extraordinary event. Food, liquids, diapers, etc.
We were dispatched to several areas where FEMA had set up shelters. Shreveport, Houston and some other cities.
FEMA stopped the program after 48 hours. The local BestBuy's were reporting a run on big screen TV's and were calling us to verify if the cards were valid or not because they were seeing so many. After notifying FEMA that the cards were being used for non critical items FEMA asked that the distribution cease. And after only 72 hours all the cash value in the cards were consumed.
The economic benefit to Best Buy was never disclosed.
^ This is exactly why I have a problem with government assistance. I'm all for helping those who need it, but let's be real here... There's a reason most of these people are in the situation they are. They've lived out of their means or made poor life choices. When the government gives them free money or things they can sell for cash they use that money to purchase the very things that drove them into poverty; drugs, expensive jewelry & clothes, and other non essential items.
Sure there are people who legitimately need the help and those with mental illness who have been abandoned, but a very large portion of the people receiving this help just see it as a "bonus."
this has been going on for years.
Overreaction much???
Quote from: stephendare on November 11, 2014, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: fsquid on November 11, 2014, 02:03:26 PM
this has been going on for years.
what? You mean people cheat and steal? And it doesn't matter whether you are poor or wealthy?
could you point me to your posts pointing out that Rick Scott stole billions of dollars from medicare? Because this criticism seems to only be valid when talking about people who don't have a pot to piss in.
Just the portion that he had to pay back (1.2 billion) could fund all the losses described herein for 15 years.
And thats just ONE wealthy person stealing from the system.
people selling their EBT cards and food stamps before that. I had friends that did these transactions in college. Unsure what Rick Scott has to do with this topic other than pointing out that the governor candidates in Florida are severely lacking.
Quote from: fsquid on November 11, 2014, 02:51:06 PM
Quote from: stephendare on November 11, 2014, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: fsquid on November 11, 2014, 02:03:26 PM
this has been going on for years.
what? You mean people cheat and steal? And it doesn't matter whether you are poor or wealthy?
could you point me to your posts pointing out that Rick Scott stole billions of dollars from medicare? Because this criticism seems to only be valid when talking about people who don't have a pot to piss in.
Just the portion that he had to pay back (1.2 billion) could fund all the losses described herein for 15 years.
And thats just ONE wealthy person stealing from the system.
people selling their EBT cards and food stamps before that. I had friends that did these transactions in college. Unsure what Rick Scott has to do with this topic other than pointing out that the governor candidates in Florida are severely lacking.
Theft is theft is it not? Only in Rick Scott's case he got anyway with it, and has more than a few extra zeros on the end of his net worth because of it. Give me a break.
Quote from: vicupstate on November 11, 2014, 03:00:45 PM
Quote from: fsquid on November 11, 2014, 02:51:06 PM
Quote from: stephendare on November 11, 2014, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: fsquid on November 11, 2014, 02:03:26 PM
this has been going on for years.
what? You mean people cheat and steal? And it doesn't matter whether you are poor or wealthy?
could you point me to your posts pointing out that Rick Scott stole billions of dollars from medicare? Because this criticism seems to only be valid when talking about people who don't have a pot to piss in.
Just the portion that he had to pay back (1.2 billion) could fund all the losses described herein for 15 years.
And thats just ONE wealthy person stealing from the system.
people selling their EBT cards and food stamps before that. I had friends that did these transactions in college. Unsure what Rick Scott has to do with this topic other than pointing out that the governor candidates in Florida are severely lacking.
Theft is theft is it not? Only in Rick Scott's case he got anyway with it, and has more than a few extra zeros on the end of his net worth because of it. Give me a break.
ok, he got away with it, life's not fair. Unsure what that has to do with EBT cards. Maybe we can talk about eminent domain or something next.
Regardless who is the Governor is and what he did (integrated into topic for whatever reason..cough cough..thread hijack) I guess that the EBT system is perfectly fine the way it is! Everybody is getting their hustle on, taking resources away from people that really need help, so it's all good, and no need to complain...
Quote from: stephendare on November 11, 2014, 01:11:34 PM
you literally don't know what the hell you are talking about. but thats ok. its a free country.
Sound argument, what I've come to expect.
Quote from: stephendare on November 11, 2014, 01:11:34 PM
imagine if your own purchasing decisions were held up and judged every time you needed a raise or a credit transaction.
My purchases ARE held up and judged EVERY time I do a credit transaction....by ME! I watch my money and try to live within my means.
If others were more accountable maybe we wouldn't have so many people on welfare. Yes, some people genuinely need it, but these "lifers" need a hard end date. Instead, we pay people to NOT work, and, from the article, they get MORE money if they have MORE kids.
How could this not get abused???
Quote from: stephendare on November 11, 2014, 03:32:57 PM
You brought up people who sold their cards for two hundred dollars, and were outraged.
But you don't seem to care about 1.2 billion dollars?
What gives?
Who are you talking to?
One thing that I noticed politically looking at it from an objective view. Republicans and Centrist GENERALLY are more straight forward than Democrats. Republicans generally stick to the script, and use less political cliches than Democrats; Even if a far right issue is controversial or is a detriment (being all for the rich, environmental issues, NRA etc) they generally stick to the script, while democrats and progressives sidetrack alot. IMO sidetracking issues isn't doing good for the cause concerning the left.
It's bound to happen. We probably spend more money trying to prevent some person selling their card than the actual cost of the loss. We probably shouldn't worry about how the money is spent, whether it is on iphones or food. Money is money, and we would have more of it available (I assume) if we didn't try to manage it on a per person level.
I'm more interested in which retailers profit the most from EBT money. What percentage of Wal-Mart's revenue, for instance, is derived from food stamps?
That information, apparently, is super confidential (last time I checked). Maybe, food stamps could be a sufficient leveraging tool of the federal government to lift people out of welfare status.
If a certain xx size retailers would like to accept food stamps then they have to ensure their employees earn some base amount of money.
This is an interesting article about food stamps and walmart from slate:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/08/05/how_much_walmart_gets_in_food_stamp_dollars_the_answer_may_be_forthcoming.html
(http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/08/05/how_much_walmart_gets_in_food_stamp_dollars_the_answer_may_be_forthcoming.html)
It seems likely that the USDA will end up releasing retail data on food stamps. They are being sued on the matter.
It's estimated that walmart brings in about 18 percent of all food stamp revenue, which accounts for 4 percent of their US sales or $13 billion.
In at least one walmart, 15 percent of their employees were on food stamps.
Planet Money story on charities that just give out cash.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/08/23/214210692/the-charity-that-just-gives-money-to-poor-people (http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/08/23/214210692/the-charity-that-just-gives-money-to-poor-people)
NY Times Article on the same subject:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/magazine/is-it-nuts-to-give-to-the-poor-without-strings-attached.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/magazine/is-it-nuts-to-give-to-the-poor-without-strings-attached.html?_r=0)
stephen, i dont know you but based on what I can gather I actually probably agree with most of your political worldview, but you seem to only process things through a very limited filter.
the mere existence of worthy welfare recipients, a fact indisputable to the aware, does not preclude any criticism of the system. Your comments amount to "Well, there are poor people and you don't know what it's like to be poor (how you know this I'm unsure) but its hard so keep your trap shut."
We need welfare, to be sure. And anecdotes are no way to make policy, but can't you even admit that maybe, just maybe, the pendulum has swung a bit far in some cases? Or at least discuss?
People abusing resources is a problem. White, black, rich, poor, deserving, undeserving.
Let's get a negative income going and forget about EBT cards
We could solve a lot of these issues if we just quit giving people so many choices. I mean who's really at fault here? You give them a way to purchase what THEY believe they need and then become critical over their decisions because they don't use THEIR assistance the way that YOU would if YOU were on it.
There's a simple solution to this issue: Set up several centralized areas around each part of town, and twice a month, people can come to these 'distribution centers' and collect their staples: Bread, Cheese, TP, Potted Meat, Flour, etc...
This way they're still getting the assistance they need for basic items and since there are no choices to be made, we can't be critical over the money used to fund this program. Since not every family is 2 Adults and 2.3 kids, this 'Food - You Opt Up' program, or F-YOU for short, could be tiered so that larger families get more.
Funny that this sounds like a Right Aisle Idea in the making.....
This is nothing new. When I had to go out to the Gateway Mall for my job, you would see people walking out of the DCF office and handing cards over to people in the parking lot in exchange for cash, cigarettes, booze, etc.
I'm not sure if the convenience store by me was part of this scheme, but I know they would do stuff like ring up a 6 pack of beer as a $5.99 bag of potato chips so that it would be accepted by EBT.
Quote from: fsquid on November 11, 2014, 03:26:32 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on November 11, 2014, 03:00:45 PM
Quote from: fsquid on November 11, 2014, 02:51:06 PM
Quote from: stephendare on November 11, 2014, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: fsquid on November 11, 2014, 02:03:26 PM
this has been going on for years.
what? You mean people cheat and steal? And it doesn't matter whether you are poor or wealthy?
could you point me to your posts pointing out that Rick Scott stole billions of dollars from medicare? Because this criticism seems to only be valid when talking about people who don't have a pot to piss in.
Just the portion that he had to pay back (1.2 billion) could fund all the losses described herein for 15 years.
And thats just ONE wealthy person stealing from the system.
people selling their EBT cards and food stamps before that. I had friends that did these transactions in college. Unsure what Rick Scott has to do with this topic other than pointing out that the governor candidates in Florida are severely lacking.
Theft is theft is it not? Only in Rick Scott's case he got anyway with it, and has more than a few extra zeros on the end of his net worth because of it. Give me a break.
ok, he got away with it, life's not fair. Unsure what that has to do with EBT cards. Maybe we can talk about eminent domain or something next.
So it is okay to steal from the government, but only if there are at least six zeroes involved? EBT cards are funded by our taxes. So is Medicaid. It isn't a hard concept to grasp that to steal or abuse either one is morally wrong. Of course that assumes the reader has as moral compass.
What does Eminent Domain have to do with anything?
Quote from: vicupstate on November 12, 2014, 05:06:00 AM
Quote from: fsquid on November 11, 2014, 03:26:32 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on November 11, 2014, 03:00:45 PM
Quote from: fsquid on November 11, 2014, 02:51:06 PM
Quote from: stephendare on November 11, 2014, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: fsquid on November 11, 2014, 02:03:26 PM
this has been going on for years.
what? You mean people cheat and steal? And it doesn't matter whether you are poor or wealthy?
could you point me to your posts pointing out that Rick Scott stole billions of dollars from medicare? Because this criticism seems to only be valid when talking about people who don't have a pot to piss in.
Just the portion that he had to pay back (1.2 billion) could fund all the losses described herein for 15 years.
And thats just ONE wealthy person stealing from the system.
people selling their EBT cards and food stamps before that. I had friends that did these transactions in college. Unsure what Rick Scott has to do with this topic other than pointing out that the governor candidates in Florida are severely lacking.
Theft is theft is it not? Only in Rick Scott's case he got anyway with it, and has more than a few extra zeros on the end of his net worth because of it. Give me a break.
ok, he got away with it, life's not fair. Unsure what that has to do with EBT cards. Maybe we can talk about eminent domain or something next.
So it is okay to steal from the government, but only if there are at least six zeroes involved? EBT cards are funded by our taxes. So is Medicaid. It isn't a hard concept to grasp that to steal or abuse either one is morally wrong. Of course that assumes the reader has as moral compass.
What does Eminent Domain have to do with anything?
never said it was ok. But can you try him again? This EBT thing is ongoing, thus the Scott thing is irrelevant.
I support the old food stamps for those that are in need..electronic money is too easy..and that food shouldnt be junk..im just sick of seeing poor people with a car full of fat kids and moms inside buying nothing but sugar...i dont feel that all foods should be able to be purchased but the food assistance..tbone should be off the list..as far as selling the cards..put some people in jail and that may stop..bothends..the seller and the buyer of the card.
Quote from: Rob68 on November 12, 2014, 09:22:23 AM
I support the old food stamps for those that are in need..electronic money is too easy..and that food shouldnt be junk..im just sick of seeing poor people with a car full of fat kids and moms inside buying nothing but sugar...i dont feel that all foods should be able to be purchased but the food assistance..tbone should be off the list..as far as selling the cards..put some people in jail and that may stop..bothends..the seller and the buyer of the card.
people sold the old food stamps too. Problem is that many who are on EBT live in a place where their only access to food is a corner convenience store that has no fresh food.
please note Rob68's comment : I'm just sick of seeing poor people with a car full of fat kids and moms
I don't buy the argument that everyone or even many are limited to neighborhood convenience stores.
I also don't like the EBT cards or whatever, that allow cash withdrawals --- another ripoff of the taxpayer.
I've completely flipped my view on the argument of processed v/s fresh food consumption by those on a limited budget.
Fresh fruit, veggies and meat are expensive, take time to prepare and don't exactly have a long shelf life when you compare it to Dinty Moore and Hungry Man meal in a box.
Are pre-packaged, pre-prepared meals good for you? Hell no, but it does put sustenance on the table and keep little Benny from crying about being hungry.
Are apples better for you than a twinkie? Hell yes, but that apple is $3.99/lb or about $1.75 each and lasts for a week, while a box of 12 Twinkies will last until after the apocalypse and costs about $3.99 for the box.
$10.50 with a week to last or $4 for eternity? The only goal is to fill the stomach.
The feds are about to double SNAP dollars for fruit and veggie buys, an increase of $110 million.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/11/10/361803607/how-double-bucks-for-food-stamps-conquered-capitol-hill
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on November 12, 2014, 08:47:31 AM
I am so sick of this stupid argument. If it's so awesome to be on welfare, then quit your job and go live on food stamps and welfare, tough guy. Oh, wait, you won't because being poor, even if you get some free money from the government, SUCKS.
When did the wealthy start actually becoming jealous of the poorest among us. Literally every day i thank God for my lot in life. I could not care less if someone is selling his food stamps because, at the end of the day, my life is still better than theirs.
Thank you for this.
Few people seem to see the natural irony that the conservative people who are often against welfare, are all about "regulate the poor! More regulation! More scrutiny!" and in the same paragraph ask for deregulation of other "worthy" individuals.
I am NOT "unworthy" of eating or shelter because I am poor.
Here is a lesson on empathy for those of you who feel that the 67(?) cases of fraud in duval are worth making THOUSANDS of other people's lives harder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Evwgu369Jw&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Evwgu369Jw&feature=youtu.be)