Metro Jacksonville

Peter Rummell's Healthy Town Site Plan Released

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3635131685_JvxbDcW-M.jpg)

A look at Elements Development LLC's plans for their "Healthy Town" concept at the 28.6-acre JEA Southbank site.  Elements Development LLC. is a partnership between developers Michael Balanky and Peter Rummell.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-oct-peter-rummells-healthy-town-site-plan-released (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-oct-peter-rummells-healthy-town-site-plan-released)

Thanks for grabbing these, when I heard Stephanie Brown talking about it this morning on WOKV, I was hoping you guys would get some of the mock ups.

Reminds me a little of Tapestry Park, except with a riverfront.

A sea of neo-stucco.  .... color me excited!

^ looks a lot like Celebration and WaterColor...so not surprising given Rummel's involvement

more town center then downtown.

It would be cool to extend the Skyway from the King Street stop into the center of this development and really make it a transit destination. 

What is "Prudential Extension" on the left side of the site plan? Is that a skyway station? Interesting..

Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 23, 2014, 11:03:44 AM
What is "Prudential Extension" on the left side of the site plan? Is that a skyway station? Interesting..

I was assuming just an extension of Prudential Drive to connect with the neighborhood, which I thought I had heard was part of the plan.

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on October 23, 2014, 11:08:58 AM

Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 23, 2014, 11:03:44 AM
What is "Prudential Extension" on the left side of the site plan? Is that a skyway station? Interesting..

I was assuming just an extension of Prudential Drive to connect with the neighborhood, which I thought I had heard was part of the plan.

I believe you are correct.

I wish moving the school board off the water was part of the plan as well. But according to the plan, there is a shared parking structure.

Prudential extension is just an "official" extension of Prudential Drive through the school board's parking lot. No skyway extension is shown in the conceptual plan.

 With 1,200 multi-family units, together what's already on the Southbank and across from river from Downtown - I think the Skyway to her makes sense.
A few yeas ago, Michael Blaylock wanted to do that extension but the JEA was getting no action. Now maybe this will be the generator it.
If I'm not mistaken, JTA owns a strip of property between the Kings Ave Skyway and the JEA site that Blaylock was wanting to use for the extension.
Wonder if Balanky will still build his office/retail/apartment building next to the Hilton hotels that went on hold when FDOT announced their Overland Bridge construction project.

Looks like a pretty solid layout. I don't know why it has to look like Celebration, but if they get the pedestrian factor right and add 1200 units this close to Downtown, they can make it look however they want. A Skyway extension would be awesome but I don't know how that could be possible.

How far is the Kings Skyway station? Seems like a short walk to me.

About 600 feet if you can walk straight there. However if you are on the far side of the complex and have to take an indirect path it could be 3 times that.

I don't think extending the Skyway to this site is worth the expense. Most of this site is within a 1/4 mile walk distance of Kings Avenue Station already.  That walk is equal to walking from Central Station to the Landing's courtyard.

It would be better to redesign Prudential Drive into a context sensitive streetscape between the site and Kings Avenue.  If we're going to spend money extending the Skyway on the Southbank, that cash should go to getting it over the FEC tracks and into San Marco, IMO.

If this happens, is there any chance Deutche Bank still comes downtown? Shipyards? Or the seemingly hundred other empty lots in Northbank?

I like the plan, but wish Jacksonville had the market to support a tower with some real density as well there.

Quote from: thelakelander on October 23, 2014, 12:58:59 PM
If we're going to spend money extending the Skyway on the Southbank...

Why "we're"?  In most places if a developer wants a transit extension to their property, THEY pay for it.  If Peter Rummell really wants this to be a healthy and sustainable development, he should consider adding an extension himself.

I doubt Rummell wants to do that. It's not shown in his plans. Rummell didn't make his money by spending millions on things that won't be profitable.

Quote from: thelakelander on October 23, 2014, 01:45:14 PM
I doubt Rummell wants to do that. It's not shown in his plans.

That's what I thought.  Then talk of extending the Skyway is foolishness.

At the JTA TOD workshop a few years ago, I advocated extending the skyway by the JEA site and then swinging it south towards San Marco. Pretty sure Lake, TUFSU, and others disagreed. Now that this site plan is ready and I've looked at the site and surrounding area, I'm changing my mind. As others have pointed out, the Kings Avenue station is a short walk and easy bike ride from Healthy Town. Extending the skyway probably doesn't open any dense development/TOD opportunities to the east/southeast. It looks like the large 9 acre COJ owned parcel to the south of the JEA site is wetlands, or at minimum in a flood zone. Pretty much everything else west of Bishop Kenny is single family. So this may be the last urban frontier east of Kings Avenue Station and north of 95 for the foreseeable future.

Given the lack of development options east/southeast of Healthy Town, I agree that taking the Skyway directly south along Hendricks or Kings is probably the best way to go if there is to be an extension.

It would probably increase the value of the property if they did go in that direction. But I don't see how it would even be possible to get out there either way. You'd either have to double back from the station and go down Prudential, or cut around south by 95 and then back up Broadcast, which could be a mile of track to reach a population less than half a mile from a station already. And as others say it's not like it could spark additional development opportunities; they're already planning on developing the whole site besides the creek.

I think a better bet is for the developer and the city to do a strong job on the Prudential, Broadcast, and Riverwalk connections from a pedestrian standpoint so all these healthy people will easily be able to get to the station and the surrounding areas without having to get in the car.

I hope something is done with Broadcast Rd too. It is near the urban core, a mile from the river and looks like Shindler Drive.

Although the renderings and site plan look nice, it would fit in much better near the SJTC. Also, I see what appear to be 3 - 4 story buildings which certainly doesn't take advantage of the river views for the residential space. I understand the market may not be able to currently absorb 30+ story towers, but the views from The Peninsula and Strand can't be beat. Balanky built San Marco Place and should push for a couple taller buildings.

I mean, it's not horrible. Kinda fits into the whole San Marco/Southbank vibe stylewise.

QuoteAt the JTA TOD workshop a few years ago, I advocated extending the skyway by the JEA site and then swinging it south towards San Marco. Pretty sure Lake, TUFSU, and others disagreed. Now that this site plan is ready and I've looked at the site and surrounding area, I'm changing my mind. As others have pointed out, the Kings Avenue station is a short walk and easy bike ride from Healthy Town. Extending the skyway probably doesn't open any dense development/TOD opportunities to the east/southeast. It looks like the large 9 acre COJ owned parcel to the south of the JEA site is wetlands, or at minimum in a flood zone. Pretty much everything else west of Bishop Kenny is single family. So this may be the last urban frontier east of Kings Avenue Station and north of 95 for the foreseeable future.

I remember that, but you weren't taking into consideration the ROW that was already owned by JTA, options on land held by private developers and the new Atlantic Blvd exit being constructed due to the Overland Bridge project that opens up major commercial development opportunities in North San Marco (the reason why First Coast Energy just bought a large pacel off Atlantic, with others soon following)... which is why the preferred route for any potential Skyway expansions into San Marco was ultimately placed where it was. Additionally there was never a junction built to accomodate future expansion towards the JEA site and you could not drop the Skyway down to grade by snaking the Skyway that direction (another huge benefit of the ultimate preferred route proposed)... which substantially increases the cost of construction (with no more bang for the buck considering there is a two block radius to walk from this site to the neartest Skyway station - exactly the same distance b/w 220 Riverside and the Brooklyn expansion often talked about that JTA has twice applied for a TIGER grant to complete).

The JEA site has roadway access issues and Prudential Drive still has context sensitive roadway issues that need to be solved. Those are much, much more important (and cheaper) than a Skyway extension.

I believe Rummell and Balanky have more than a year to decide if they want to go ahead with the land purchase and develop it.  If they build something, it might be very different than the plan shown.

I mentioned the skyway station thinking it was a bit absurd just .2 miles (by sidewalk) from the Kings Ave Station. As others have said, extending to the East San Marco site would be much more worthwhile. The only way this makes sense (essentially creating another line) would be if the Elements property donates land to extend farther into the center of the development, perhaps integrated into one of the structures.

I think this is a good step in the right direction!

Peter Rummell expects to start 'healthy town' by fall

QuoteHealthy Town, probably by another name, could start taking shape on the Downtown Southbank by fall.
Developer Peter Rummell said Thursday that he and development partner Michael Balanky hope to complete the $18.5 million contract to buy the property from JEA within 10 days. The JEA board meets next week.

"Then we'll spend obscene amounts of money and be in the ground this year," Rummell said.

After due diligence on incentives and entitlements, horizontal development could start by fall.

Read more at: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544710

Very glad to see they are exploring a name change. Definitely a step in the right direction if they are seeking to avoid becoming a senior living community.

Rummell and Balanky will be rock stars if they can break ground by the fall.

Any new word on this?  I noticed a large barge with a crane tied up to the seawall in the middle of the JEA southbank site the other day.  It looked bigger and had a newer/larger crane than what I had seen working the riverwalk.

Not new, but I didn't see this follow-up article posted:

QuoteJEA approves contract for Rummell/Balanky project

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/01/20/jea-approves-contract-for-rummell-balanky-project.html?page=all (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/01/20/jea-approves-contract-for-rummell-balanky-project.html?page=all)

There is definitely something going on over by the river. The barge with crane is still there and now there is a backhoe and some other equipment sitting on the site itself.

They might be doing some environmental remediation and site prep work, but still have to go through the entitlement process for the development itself.

Over the last week or so another, much larger crane and barge showed up over there.  I think they may be removing the remaining bulkheads and structures on the water that were left over from the powerplant.  Either way it's good to see something going on out there.

New images have been released. Personally, I like what I see.

(http://media.bizj.us/view/img/6814392/screen-shot-2015-08-26-at-82710-am.png)

(http://media.bizj.us/view/img/6814402/screen-shot-2015-08-26-at-82818-am.png)

(http://media.bizj.us/view/img/6814372/screen-shot-2015-08-26-at-82806-am.png)

(http://media.bizj.us/view/img/6814362/screen-shot-2015-08-26-at-82755-am.png)

(http://media.bizj.us/view/img/6814352/screen-shot-2015-08-26-at-82848-am.png)

(http://media.bizj.us/view/img/6814382/screen-shot-2015-08-26-at-82647-am.png)

I like that this development will result in the residence of two mega-yachts and the local sailing of one enormous schooner.
Also, that development is basically drawn as bigger and better than Jacksonville.

On quick glance, I think they nailed it site planning wise. Plenty of green space along the waterfront, good scale of building height and design (similar to a pic I posted of Vancouver in a Shipyards thread), walkable corridor that leads to King Avenue Station and the rest of the Southbank, and hidden parking in the rear along the preserve/wetlands. Nicely done.

Here's Healthy Town's website:

http://www.healthy.town/

Also, there's more info on the TU:

QuoteEstimated at $400 million to $500 million, the residential and retail development is designed to capitalize on its St. Johns River location and promises to boost Jacksonville's economy and image. It will be built on a riverfront lot of 29 acres on the South Bank on the former JEA Southside Generating Station site, which is next door to Duval County Public School headquarters. The property now is vacant except for weeds. The partners are buying the site for slightly more than $17 million.

Healthy Town will be built in phases, according to a resolution being considered by the city's Downtown Investment Authority at 2 p.m. today.

■ Phase I — 500 residential units, 200 hotel rooms, 94,400 square feet of commercial/retail and 200,000 square feet of office space.

■ Phase II — 200 residential units and 100,000 square feet of commercial/retail

■ Phase III — 470 residential units and 94,100 square feet of commercial/retail.

If the DIA gives its blessing, which is expected, the project will move forward in Jacksonville's economic development pipeline.

full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-08-26/story/vision-massive-project-jacksonvilles-southbank-comes-focus

The rendering shows Berkman 2 as demolished and the Shipyards as a patch of dirt and grass.  Is this the real estate equivalent to dissing a rival in the lyrics to your rap song?

The rendering also shows the second half of the school board's parking lot highlighted as if it is part of the development.  That has been a major point of contention for this project, so I hope that means that this has been resolved.

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 26, 2015, 11:54:36 AM
The rendering shows Berkman 2 as demolished and the Shipyards as a patch of dirt and grass.  Is this the real estate equivalent to dissing a rival in the lyrics to your rap song?

The rendering also shows the second half of the school board's parking lot highlighted as if it is part of the development.  That has been a major point of contention for this project, so I hope that means that this has been resolved.

Move the Duval County School Board to LaVilla.

I'm sure we can find a mostly empty Northbank office building or two, for them.

Quote from: thelakelander on August 26, 2015, 12:04:34 PM
I'm sure we can find a mostly empty Northbank office building or two, for them.

I wonder if they think they're too good for the JEA building? Do they see a secure underground parking garage as a security threat?

^Ha, I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if JEA wants to be the main office tenant in Healthy Town?

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 26, 2015, 11:54:36 AM
The rendering shows Berkman 2 as demolished and the Shipyards as a patch of dirt and grass.  Is this the real estate equivalent to dissing a rival in the lyrics to your rap song?

Nice catch. Now it's Khan's turn!

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 26, 2015, 11:54:36 AM
The rendering shows Berkman 2 as demolished and the Shipyards as a patch of dirt and grass.  Is this the real estate equivalent to dissing a rival in the lyrics to your rap song?

Lol

Don't forget there are plans to build apartments at the old Crawdaddy's site.

Quote from: CityLife on August 26, 2015, 11:45:35 AM
On quick glance, I think they nailed it site planning wise. Plenty of green space along the waterfront, good scale of building height and design (similar to a pic I posted of Vancouver in a Shipyards thread), walkable corridor that leads to King Avenue Station and the rest of the Southbank, and hidden parking in the rear along the preserve/wetlands. Nicely done.

I agree. The site plan continues to look strong.

I especially like slide 5 ("Main Street Rendering").

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 26, 2015, 11:54:36 AM
The rendering shows Berkman 2 as demolished and the Shipyards as a patch of dirt and grass.  Is this the real estate equivalent to dissing a rival in the lyrics to your rap song?

I would've thrown a family dollar on the shipyards site and put a little rinky dink fishing boat on their docks.

Just watched the promo vid. Was the bird's eye footage of the actual site the only shots of Jax?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPI6Sqyw-44

Wow, that promo video was horrible. Good luck attracting millennials with that garbage. Seems more like a place you would send your aging parents/grandparents.

Quote from: johnnyliar on August 26, 2015, 06:15:13 PM
Wow, that promo video was horrible. Good luck attracting millennials with that garbage. Seems more like a place you would send your aging parents/grandparents.

Ha ha!  Yeah I think they need to rebrand this whole thing.  I like the scale and renderings but I don't think they need to focus so obsessively on attracting the trendy Fitbit and spandex wearing, spinach and kale cocktail drinking, hyper yoga enthusiast crowd.  I think if they just let the renderings speak for themselves they'd do better attracting a crowd.  It's a unique way to market a place and that's what their trying to do but I think you're right, some millennials may see it as lame. 

Quote from: CCMjax on August 26, 2015, 06:26:55 PM
the trendy Fitbit and spandex wearing, spinach and kale cocktail drinking, hyper yoga enthusiast crowd. 

Fixed!

Quote from: CCMjax on August 26, 2015, 06:26:55 PM
the Whole Foods crowd.  (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/39/e5/84/39e5845bab65ddfe862fbd152f40c582.jpg)

Quote from: johnnyliar on August 26, 2015, 06:15:13 PM
Wow, that promo video was horrible. Good luck attracting millennials with that garbage. Seems more like a place you would send your aging parents/grandparents.

I think they know their marketplace.  This isn't some gritty district in Brooklyn (NYC), this is Jacksonville, where millennials have tended to occupy suburban gated apartment complexes with names that invoke images of green meadows and waterways.  Branding this new in-town neighborhood as having a resort quality is how you appeal to all ages of the Jacksonville residential marketplace.  Perhaps that will change over time, but for right now, that's the way it is.  I wish them tons of success, and am pleased and impressed that Peter Rummell, at nearly 70, still wants to invest the energy in pulling together a legacy-building project for Jacksonville's core.

Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 26, 2015, 06:35:34 PM

Quote from: johnnyliar on August 26, 2015, 06:15:13 PM
Wow, that promo video was horrible. Good luck attracting millennials with that garbage. Seems more like a place you would send your aging parents/grandparents.

I think they know their marketplace.  This isn't some gritty district in Brooklyn (NYC), this is Jacksonville, where millennials have tended to occupy suburban gated apartment complexes with names that invoke images of green meadows and waterways.  Branding this new in-town neighborhood as having a resort quality is how you appeal to all ages of the Jacksonville residential marketplace.  Perhaps that will change over time, but for right now, that's the way it is.  I wish them tons of success, and am pleased and impressed that Peter Rummell, at nearly 70, still wants to invest the energy in pulling together a legacy-building project for Jacksonville's core.

I wish them all the success as well.  I really hope this project does well.  They are the experts and have done the research and Rummell has proven that he is a brilliant developer.  I think myself and Johnnyliar just had the same first impression of that video and I had a good laugh at that.

Every time I hear the name Healthy Town, I think of Arrested Development.  Minute marker 1:42

http://www.youtube.com/v/YVMQ48o2rHQ

Quote from: InnerCityPressure on August 26, 2015, 07:50:14 PM
Every time I hear the name Healthy Town, I think of Arrested Development.  Minute marker 1:42

http://www.youtube.com/v/YVMQ48o2rHQ

Hahah same! I posted the same thing today on facebook!

I would encourage Vitti and the school board to get themselves a great deal out of this development. The school board building is dingy and the school district has really outgrown the space. Perhaps he could get a brand new school board office tower in the Healthy town site in exchange for giving the current site to Rummell. It would give Rummell even more waterfront space and allow Healthy town to nicely connect to the proposed apartment development on the old crawdaddy's site.

Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 26, 2015, 11:59:10 AM

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 26, 2015, 11:54:36 AM
The rendering shows Berkman 2 as demolished and the Shipyards as a patch of dirt and grass.  Is this the real estate equivalent to dissing a rival in the lyrics to your rap song?

The rendering also shows the second half of the school board's parking lot highlighted as if it is part of the development.  That has been a major point of contention for this project, so I hope that means that this has been resolved.

Move the Duval County School Board to LaVilla.

Lol, the school board would probably close the street, pave a parking lot, and fence the property in.

In a jaxdailyrecord article today, there seemed to be a suggestion that there have been unnecessary delays in issuing the development rights agreement. 

Wallace said details of the project will be negotiated as part of the development agreement, while Pappas suggested the pace of the process should increase.

"The longer we delay, the harder it will be to bring this project to fruition," she said.[/color]

What's the story here?  Does the city drag its feet on downtown projects?  I believe during the mayoral campaign, Curry alluded to too much bureaucracy in getting things built downtown.  What are your reactions to that?

Quote from: arb on August 26, 2015, 09:45:03 PM

Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 26, 2015, 11:59:10 AM

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 26, 2015, 11:54:36 AM
The rendering shows Berkman 2 as demolished and the Shipyards as a patch of dirt and grass.  Is this the real estate equivalent to dissing a rival in the lyrics to your rap song?

The rendering also shows the second half of the school board's parking lot highlighted as if it is part of the development.  That has been a major point of contention for this project, so I hope that means that this has been resolved.

Move the Duval County School Board to LaVilla.

Lol, the school board would probably close the street, pave a parking lot, and fence the property in.

Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 27, 2015, 07:44:54 PM
In a jaxdailyrecord article today, there seemed to be a suggestion that there have been unnecessary delays in issuing the development rights agreement. 

Wallace said details of the project will be negotiated as part of the development agreement, while Pappas suggested the pace of the process should increase.

"The longer we delay, the harder it will be to bring this project to fruition," she said.[/color]

What's the story here?  Does the city drag its feet on downtown projects?  I believe during the mayoral campaign, Curry alluded to too much bureaucracy in getting things built downtown.  What are your reactions to that?

Long story short, the city screwed around for months writing up the development agreement. It's not the first something like that happened in recent years, though I'd blame simple incompetence over intrigue. And yes, Curry did say these bureaucratic hoops were something that had to change, so hopefully things will improve. We shall see.

Yeah, 7 months to approve development rights...seems excessive, no?  Is DIA the bottleneck, or a broad Jax issue.

Quote from: Tacachale on August 27, 2015, 08:45:43 PM

Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 27, 2015, 07:44:54 PM
In a jaxdailyrecord article today, there seemed to be a suggestion that there have been unnecessary delays in issuing the development rights agreement. 

Wallace said details of the project will be negotiated as part of the development agreement, while Pappas suggested the pace of the process should increase.

"The longer we delay, the harder it will be to bring this project to fruition," she said.[/color]

What's the story here?  Does the city drag its feet on downtown projects?  I believe during the mayoral campaign, Curry alluded to too much bureaucracy in getting things built downtown.  What are your reactions to that?

Long story short, the city screwed around for months writing up the development agreement. It's not the first something like that happened in recent years, though I'd blame simple incompetence over intrigue. And yes, Curry did say these bureaucratic hoops were something that had to change, so hopefully things will improve. We shall see.

Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 28, 2015, 11:55:53 AM
Yeah, 7 months to approve development rights...seems excessive, no?  Is DIA the bottleneck, or a broad Jax issue.

Quote from: Tacachale on August 27, 2015, 08:45:43 PM

Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 27, 2015, 07:44:54 PM
In a jaxdailyrecord article today, there seemed to be a suggestion that there have been unnecessary delays in issuing the development rights agreement. 

Wallace said details of the project will be negotiated as part of the development agreement, while Pappas suggested the pace of the process should increase.

"The longer we delay, the harder it will be to bring this project to fruition," she said.[/color]

What's the story here?  Does the city drag its feet on downtown projects?  I believe during the mayoral campaign, Curry alluded to too much bureaucracy in getting things built downtown.  What are your reactions to that?

Long story short, the city screwed around for months writing up the development agreement. It's not the first something like that happened in recent years, though I'd blame simple incompetence over intrigue. And yes, Curry did say these bureaucratic hoops were something that had to change, so hopefully things will improve. We shall see.

I doubt it was specific to DIA, similar problems were pretty pervasive in various city departments. Businesses were getting held up because officials would just let things sit on their desk for 30 days so they'd go through without a signature, rather than just signing off. Hopefully things will start improving, it's part of what Curry campaigned on.

This is a beautiful plan.  I hope that Elements will work with JTA and have a CNG Trolley run from the ASE station through the development every 10 minutes.  This would provide connectivity and make it a Transit Oriented Development (TOD).  On the comment about Berkman II being demolished and the Shipyards being bare land.  I am certain the artist could not fill the Shipyards renderings because they are copyrighted the design firm that is developing that property.

Both properties will almost certainly be developed. :)

Since the theme appears to be about building exercise naturally into everyday living, there's no need to run a CNG Trolley back and forth. It's roughly a 1/4 mile walk (five minute walk) from the nearest ASE station to the densest part (the roundabout in the renderings) of this proposed development. Another 1/4 mile walk would put you in the wetlands, east of Healthy Town. Considering the apartment complex being proposed on the old Crawdaddy's site, just streetscape Prudential Drive and call it a day.

Yeah, I was thinking it's actually pretty cool this is going to be within walking distance of a Skyway station.

Quote from: thelakelander on August 28, 2015, 03:18:01 PM
Since the theme appears to be about building exercise naturally into everyday living, there's no need to run a CNG Trolley back and forth. It's roughly a 1/4 mile walk (five minute walk) from the nearest ASE station to the densest part (the roundabout in the renderings) of this proposed development. Another 1/4 mile walk would put you in the wetlands, east of Healthy Town. Considering the apartment complex being proposed on the old Crawdaddy's site, just streetscape Prudential Drive and call it a day.

Agreed.  I used to walk 1/4 to 1/2 mile to the train everyday for work before moving to Jax.  Not a big deal at all, no need to extend anything to healthy town, or provide any special service for it. 

Surveyors have been out there for at least the last week.  Hopefully they are getting ready to close on the property and kick this thing off.

It would be nice to see these brownfield developments employ the design principals of traditional cities. Narrow streets and more density would make this a lot nicer. It still looks like it is built for cars with a few people added to the mix.

For example: Why do we need a massive auto oriented road leading to the river?

(http://media.bizj.us/view/img/6814352/screen-shot-2015-08-26-at-82848-am.png)

These streets should be more like this:

(http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2014/071314_files/Freiburg,%20Germany.jpg)

Quote from: Lunican on November 17, 2015, 10:52:39 AM
For example: Why do we need a massive auto oriented road leading to the river?

Unfortunately, marketing only goes so far. The majority of the people coming and going to this site will do so by automobile. That, in turn, will force streets to be designed a certain way to comply with the city's roadway design standards.

http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/development-services-division/city-standard-details-(dwg---pdf-formats).aspx#roadways

For example, you'll be lucky if individual lane widths are 10' each. That alone, kills the environment shown in your last image.

^ It looks like private drives can go down to 20'. Kind of wide but better than 120'. Not to mention the fact that not everything must be a road for cars. Roads for walking work too.

I see a lot of dead space in their plan. Why not maximize the limited space they have?

^We're decades in to designing roads for automobiles instead of people. Nationwide, things are changing for the better. The concept of Complete Streets and Context Sensitive Solutions have become more than buzzwords. Some agencies are well ahead and others. A few years ago, Jax was on the cusp of being cutting edge in this area. Unfortunately, focus was lost. Hopefully, we can get back on track.

And how hard would it be for COJ to add a narrow street design standard? Seems simple enough.

They would be cheaper to maintain as well.

Who is doing the site remediation of contaminated soils?

QuoteNew name for Healthy Town: The District - Life Well Lived - Jacksonville
For almost two years, developer Peter Rummell has been calling his big idea "Healthy Town."
Starting today, thanks to five people out of 1,150 contestants, it has a big new name.

"The District - Life Well Lived - Jacksonville" was the consolidated winning suggestion for the almost 30-acre Downtown Southbank riverfront property.

Rummell and business partners Mike Balanky and Michael Munz want to develop the site to create a place where residents can live "healthily in a cool mixed-use urban setting with multi generations," according to a news release this morning announcing the name.

Munz said the five winners used a version of the word "district" in their suggestions. Their names will be released after they are notified and sign a release form.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546580

sorry but that name isn't much better. 

Plus, I'm pretty sure there is already a "The District" in Jacksonville.  It is a student-oriented apartment complex near UNF.

Did you suggest a better name, tufsu?  If you weren't part of the process, you can't be mad at the result.

^ I'm not mad...could honestly care less

That's... quite a name.

So when are they breaking ground?

February, according to the news.

Quote from: Tacachale on December 01, 2015, 09:27:16 AM
February, according to the news.

Name is better than Healthy Town.  I'm surprised after all that they only came up with "The District" though.  I can think of 3 off the top of my head that would be better though . . . Riverview District, Shoreline District, Southbank Square.

I don't give a flip what they name the thing.  I just want to see dirt moving.  They've had what looks to be an environmental services company out there for a few weeks with a small drill rig.  Either way there has been someone out there doing preliminary work of various types for a couple of months which is promising!  I think this may actually happen ;D

There is already a "The District" church and a "The District" apartment complex near UNF.

but not "The District - Life Well Lived - Jacksonville....

Quote from: thelakelander on December 01, 2015, 10:23:19 AM
but not "The District - Life Well Lived - Jacksonville....

which sure is catchy....

New render:

(http://i.imgur.com/fYayhkQ.png)

Quote from: Tacachale on December 01, 2015, 09:27:16 AM
February, according to the news.

TU is reporting the closing date as April 27th and construction to begin early/mid summer.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-12-01/story/planned-southbank-mega-development-healthy-town-gets-new-name

What about Kale Kreek, or YogaPants Junction?

Or "Everybody That Lives Here Owns a Boat! District"

It's just, The District.  The motto is Life Well Lived.  The Jax is just to differentiate between this and theoretical future districts in other cities (that will likely already have developments named the District.

Go to http://thedistrictjax.com/

The District certainly has negative connotations to former UNF students who remember the apartment complex the district at Kernan which is kinda a dump haha. Good to see it moving forward though!

Quote from: UNFurbanist on December 01, 2015, 05:41:49 PM
The District certainly has negative connotations to former UNF students who remember the apartment complex the district at Kernan which is kinda a dump haha. Good to see it moving forward though!

The District on Kernan has new owners and they are cleaning the place up.  I agree, the previous owners in an effort to fill the place up had set the bar a little too low for quality.

The recent shooting there was a wake up call to drain the swamp and clean it up.

http://thedistrictonkernan.com/ (http://thedistrictonkernan.com/)

Quote from: PeeJayEss on December 01, 2015, 12:44:37 PM
Or "Everybody That Lives Here Owns a Boat! District"

You'd get that idea from the rendering. However most would not own a boat.  I know of a condo with marina in town that has maybe 20 slips and only one boat. 

Quote from: PeeJayEss on December 01, 2015, 12:44:37 PM
Or "Everybody That Lives Here Owns a Boat! District"

+1

Quote from: Captain Zissou on December 01, 2015, 01:15:40 PM
It's just, The District.  The motto is Life Well Lived.  The Jax is just to differentiate between this and theoretical future districts in other cities (that will likely already have developments named the District.

Go to http://thedistrictjax.com/

Tides are looking good for a District RICO loop. CZ you and me. Life Well Lived.

This project is still in the design phases.  I think I heard on the radio this morning a year until all the engineering and plans are complete.  If that's the case we will not see any dirt moving for a quite a while.  I could have heard that wrong though. 

^In the article I think it says that Rummel wants to turn dirt in Feb. 2016!

Quote from: UNFurbanist on December 02, 2015, 10:52:52 AM
^In the article I think it says that Rummel wants to turn dirt in Feb. 2016!

Odd because they are hoping to close April 27. Anyway, article also states site work would begin as soon as possible but buildings going vertical might be a year later.

I didn't notice... but will the District be Gated?

Quote from: BridgeTroll on December 02, 2015, 01:41:04 PM
I didn't notice... but will the District be Gated?

They can't gate the whole thing, as there will be retail and office space.

I don't think any of it with the exception of maybe some parking areas are planned to be gated.

Quote from: CCMjax on December 02, 2015, 08:01:12 AM
This project is still in the design phases.  I think I heard on the radio this morning a year until all the engineering and plans are complete.  If that's the case we will not see any dirt moving for a quite a while.  I could have heard that wrong though.

If they are just now doing the borings a year is about right for general project. Specific buildings will take longer while the concept is developed further.

Rummell bought out Balanky and is the sole owner of the District project, according to JBJ.  It sounds like the timeline is also pushed back (no surprise there)... http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/05/12/rummell-buys-out-partner-in-former-healthy-town.html

Quote from: BridgeTroll on December 02, 2015, 01:41:04 PM
I didn't notice... but will the District be Gated?

2014-560 The CRA/DIA 4.8 mile rivers edge District
2014-190 The completed Southbank Riverwalk
2014-305 Docking Rules and Penalties. SEIZURE of your Watercraft for a docking violation. Uber and Lyft of the Waterways
2016-18 The ADA HANDICAPPED DOJ, DCPS, DIA, COJ, Tom Ingram, Ray Pringle, Lisa Rinaman, Scott Shine, Dr. Vitti, Lori Boyer, Aundra Wallace, Beth Meyer, Don Redman, Scott Wilson, Wes Maul, Rick Scott, Lenny Curry Watercraft hand launch.
2015-777 - Munz, Balanky, Rummell

Visit Jacksonville! Mr. Paul Astleford

The District should be under construction by this fall!

The Southbank is primed for development hopefully.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/06/28/new-masterplan-for-the-district-development.html

Good news. Can anyone post the updated site plans? That link is subscription only.

Have they announced who they are partnering with to get the project done? Neither Rummell nor Munz are "boots on the ground" developers. I hate to be pessimistic, but until we know who will actually be executing the plan and where the funding is coming from I will not hold my breath.

Quote from: Tacachale on June 28, 2016, 10:17:35 AM
Good news. Can anyone post the updated site plans? That link is subscription only.

News4Jax has some images. http://www.news4jax.com/news/local/jacksonville/masterplay-gives-preview-of-the-district

Also the development has a website www.thedistrictjax.com

(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/lead_photo_wide/0628rogersrecommendationfull.JPG)

QuoteMichael Munz, a partner in the group with Peter Rummell, said the townhomes are still being mapped out, but that he anticipates 45-65 of them. They'd be two or three stories with individual garages and would be for sale, not rent. Prices have not been determined, he said.

Munz said the new master plan, finished last week, will be the final plan submitted to the Downtown Development Review Board. It includes other changes:

Restaurants had been scattered through the 30-acre site of the former JEA Southside Generating Station. Now, two restaurants are planned on each side of the 4.5-acre public park on the river. A fifth restaurant would go into the riverfront hotel.

The center of the property had featured two apartment buildings, but an office tower that had been farther from the river has been moved there. All three buildings will have retail, possibly including more restaurants on the ground floors.

The space between the two apartment buildings had been designated as a road. Now it's a pedestrian walkway.

http://jacksonville.com/business/real-estate/2016-06-28/story/townhomes-added-plans-district-southbank

Reading this, it sounds like the anticipated ground breaking is 6 months behind previous press releases. It was supposed to break ground this summer. However, the FTU article makes it sound like December 2016 or early 2017.

Quote from: thelakelander on June 28, 2016, 07:54:49 PM
Reading this, it sounds like the anticipated ground breaking is 6 months behind previous press releases. It was supposed to break ground this summer. However, the FTU article makes it sound like December 2016 or early 2017.

This summer's ground-breaking was based on Equity Resources developing the apartments. It's not involved any more and they need to find a new developer. Actually, it sounds like they have one, but aren't ready to name it. Which means it's not all locked in

Looks like a lot more surface parking next to DCSB than there was before

They're showing a land swap. DCPS gets more riverfront land (the extra surface parking) and the District gets the DCPS surface lot on the south side of Prudential Drive.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/The-District/i-JHbM2mp/0/X3/The-District-Masterbook-16-0621-Pg1-7-Compressed_Page_4-X3.jpg)

Quote from: river4340 on June 28, 2016, 07:40:10 PM
(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/lead_photo_wide/0628rogersrecommendationfull.JPG)

QuoteMichael Munz, a partner in the group with Peter Rummell, said the townhomes are still being mapped out, but that he anticipates 45-65 of them. They'd be two or three stories with individual garages and would be for sale, not rent. Prices have not been determined, he said.

Munz said the new master plan, finished last week, will be the final plan submitted to the Downtown Development Review Board. It includes other changes:

Restaurants had been scattered through the 30-acre site of the former JEA Southside Generating Station. Now, two restaurants are planned on each side of the 4.5-acre public park on the river. A fifth restaurant would go into the riverfront hotel.

The center of the property had featured two apartment buildings, but an office tower that had been farther from the river has been moved there. All three buildings will have retail, possibly including more restaurants on the ground floors.

The space between the two apartment buildings had been designated as a road. Now it's a pedestrian walkway.

http://jacksonville.com/business/real-estate/2016-06-28/story/townhomes-added-plans-district-southbank

Nice! This keeps up I'm ready to make that move back to Jax and live out my final days on Planet Earth; I love what I see happening in downtown, Brooklyn, etc., and just wish they'd dammit do something with LaVilla (where I lived in the 60's). We'll see.

Quote from: thelakelander on June 29, 2016, 01:13:29 PM
They're showing a land swap. DCPS gets more riverfront land (the extra surface parking) and the District gets the DCPS surface lot on the south side of Prudential Drive.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/The-District/i-JHbM2mp/0/X3/The-District-Masterbook-16-0621-Pg1-7-Compressed_Page_4-X3.jpg)

From what I have heard, they are attempting to buy out DCPS and let them stay there until they are ready to develop that site or sell to another developer.

DCPS needs to move off the river. It makes no sense for them to be on prime land like that.

Quote from: FlaBoy on June 29, 2016, 02:40:31 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on June 29, 2016, 01:13:29 PM
They're showing a land swap. DCPS gets more riverfront land (the extra surface parking) and the District gets the DCPS surface lot on the south side of Prudential Drive.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/The-District/i-JHbM2mp/0/X3/The-District-Masterbook-16-0621-Pg1-7-Compressed_Page_4-X3.jpg)

From what I have heard, they are attempting to buy out DCPS and let them stay there until they are ready to develop that site or sell to another developer.

That would be great news, for everyone involved.

And additionally, the land swap looks like a pretty good deal. It gives more options for development south of Prudential, and hopefully it would make the DCPS property more attractive when it does sell.

Quote from: thelakelander on June 28, 2016, 07:54:49 PM
Reading this, it sounds like the anticipated ground breaking is 6 months behind previous press releases. It was supposed to break ground this summer. However, the FTU article makes it sound like December 2016 or early 2017.

Does anyone have the latest on what's going on here?

The Downtown Development Review Board approved the master development plan late last year.

Final steps:

- Execution of a redevelopment agreement with the DIA
- Approval from the Mayor's Budget Review Committee
- Approval of the development plan by City Council

Unless something has changed or changes, construction should be underway by April.

Here's some more info: http://residentnews.net/2017/01/03/district-developers-discuss-risks-involved-developing-jacksonville/

I find it interesting that both Rummell and Munz are against the skyway being extended into The District. I wonder if there's been talk of them building it into the master plan themselves, which would increase the upfront cost (and be understandable).  Or if they are just against the idea in its entirety...

And the "built up" areas downtown, are they referring to the Trio? I don't understand why Rummell thinks that would be boring...

To me, extending the Skyway into the District would be a waste of money. As it stands now, Kings Avenue Station is already less than 800 feet away. That's well within a 1/4 walk radius of a transit stop.  Save that cash and use it to really get the Skyway somewhere beneficial.

Someone also speculated in a previous thread that 1) the Skyway has a negative stigma that they don't want associated with their development, and 2) it would provide a direct connection into the District for downtown's "undesirables."

This comment from Munz is brutal towards Jacksonville:

Quote
Luring people to Jacksonville who are willing to take a risk is tough, said Munz. "If we want to have the Jacksonville we want, we've got to have investors," he said. "The most frustrating thing for the two of us is when we've brought in investors – people you would yearn for that come from Peter's Rolodex – and they say, 'Peter, you've done this for 45 years. You've built Disney Paris, Disney Hong Kong and Celebration. You've done things people said would never work, but this is Jacksonville. Are you kidding me?' Now that shouldn't be an answer, but it is. People have to accept the fact this is an investment. There is an economic situation with this."

^It's reality. It's easier to deal with reality and overcome the challenges when one can admit their shortcomings.

Quote from: thelakelander on January 20, 2017, 01:52:07 PM
^It's reality. It's easier to deal with reality and overcome the challenges when one can admit their shortcomings.

I don't disagree.  Just noting how hard that hits based on the source.   

^Yeah. People tend to wonder why the private sector isn't rushing to spend money on old buildings like the Trio or Berkman II. It has much more to do with the reality of the market and less to do with what's happening in city hall.

Quote from: thelakelander on January 20, 2017, 01:33:20 PM
To me, extending the Skyway into the District would be a waste of money. As it stands now, Kings Avenue Station is already less than 800 feet away. That's well within a 1/4 walk radius of a transit stop.  Save that cash and use it to really get the Skyway somewhere beneficial.

You hit the nail on the head.  There is literally no need for a skyway extension to the District.  As someone who has worked in that area, it really isn't that far of a walk to anywhere in the area.  Besides, how healthy would our Healthy Town be if people can't even walk across a parking lot?

I don't see that comment as brutal towards Jacksonville at all. Those investors are human, too. They suffer from the same biases most of us suffer from. And, to add to the difficulty, that's a global crowd he's talking about. Pro-Miami bias? Yes. Negative Southern bias? Yes. Tourism bias? Yes. None of those work to our favor and none of them are our fault.

So, do those global investors Munz is talking about have the slightest clue how to see Jacksonville? Hell, many of y'all don't have the slightest damn clue how to see Jacksonville other than a relentlessly negative "why can't it be more like _________" nonsense.

Few cities have the available riverfront locations (including the intracoastal) and beach access that we have to channel development momentum. This includes wide stretches of available and relatively cheap land for coastal communities -- incredibly rare for an urban area like this. These amenities, and they are extremely good amenities, are focal draws away from downtown. It's an absolutely unique situation that clearly frustrates the urban core crowd, the "faster, please" crowd. Okay.

But we're clearly at a tipping point. Investment opportunities in our urban core will be a much easier sell in the next decade (again, it can't be said enough: thank you, Shad Khan). Although Munz may have very well meant his statement to be a lament the way Ennis took it, they did decide to build the project here -- correct? That required due diligence on their part, did it not? The end result of the go/no-go decision cycle was a very definite "go" was it not? So, the real lament (even if subconscious and unstated) is more likely to be a frustration with the simple, human biases at play. Biases that block clarity of vision. The kind of biases (hello, Ennis) that -- for instance -- make a knowledgeable party on this board link Jacksonville to Memphis.

^I wouldn't call a statement or understanding that Jax and Memphis are lower tier cities (in terms of scale and investment) than places like NYC, Miami and Chicago. That's just reality. As we grow, there will be more investment opportunity but it will take those willing to take the risk (like Munz and Rummell) being successful to ultimately attract more.  Khan's investments will also help. 

220 Riverside and Brooklyn Riverside are prefect examples. Those two infill projects coming into the core and not failing, have basically opened the flood gates for similiar infill multi-family residential.

The reason investors have been slow to do in JAX what was occurred elsewhere, is that JAX has been VERY late to the game. It still remains to be seen how much JAX has evolved into an urban renaissance mode instead of a suburban sprawl mode. There is some momentum building but it seems to be mostly limited to the Southbank and Brooklyn. To some degree those have to be attributable to the success of San Marco and Riverside respectively. All of what has been proposed may not actually get built either or it may be a considerable timeline.

Mr. Khan has only invested in his own stadium thus far. I am hopeful that will change soon, but let's see what he is proposing first. Regardless it will be a long-term build out. That proposal coupled with the Intuition/Doro area could truly be a big deal. Even so, it still leaves the Northbank core on the 'To Do List'.  I don't see JAX as being at the tipping point yet, but if 2017 goes well, it might be within sight of it.       

Quote from: vicupstate on January 22, 2017, 11:07:54 AM
I don't see JAX as being at the tipping point yet, but if 2017 goes well, it might be within sight of it.       

I would agree with you here, but I'm really loathe the phrase 'at the tipping point'.  What does that even mean?  #rhetorical

I like the outlook that Rummel and Munz have on their project.  They seem to be hopeful, but not obscenely confident.  As Rummel said at the beginning of the posted article - the best thing for Jacksonville is if this project makes them both an obscene amount of money. 

I do think the sports district is getting a needed boost with their own district coming online and I fully expect something from Khan in that area as well, but the key to all of this is going to be sustainability. 

Early success is great.  Momentum is awesome.  But what this town has been in dire need of for a long time is sustained success.

To use your words, I felt like this city might have been at a 'tipping point' around 2004/2006, but once the housing market tipped, so did all of our hopes - right in the dumpster.  10 years later, here we are again.   What's going to be different this time?   We have several clusters of development happening at the same time.  In order to make this thing work, there HAS to be something tying them together.

Need something to tie several nodes together? JTA's Skyway expansion plan perhaps?

Quote from: thelakelander on January 22, 2017, 12:08:39 PM
JTA's Skyway expansion plan perhaps?

(https://m.popkey.co/05e616/R5oL_f-maxage-0.gif)

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on January 22, 2017, 11:41:24 AM
What's going to be different this time?

Hopefully the market won't crash this time.

Quote from: thelakelander on January 22, 2017, 12:08:39 PM
Need something to tie several nodes together? JTA's Skyway expansion plan perhaps?

2016-18 and the ADA Non Motorized hand launch at the DCPS building property. The School Board property people have said that COJ has Noded out on this one. The School Board property people are Noded in. Boyer Dist. 5 at a Waterways meeting is slapping these Nodes together. Wants to look at the (WTF) Node at Gefen on the Northbank as well.  Boyer is Noded up. She was telling them at Waterways. She was Nodedly making a lot of sense.
HUGE meeting 1/26/17 at 1pm in the Lynwood Roberts Room. Open to the Public. Waterways and Waterfront Activation.

I am Downtown and why you aren't.
Stay positive.

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on January 22, 2017, 11:41:24 AM

Quote from: vicupstate on January 22, 2017, 11:07:54 AM
I don't see JAX as being at the tipping point yet, but if 2017 goes well, it might be within sight of it.       

I would agree with you here, but I'm really loathe the phrase 'at the tipping point'.  What does that even mean?  #rhetorical

I like the outlook that Rummel and Munz have on their project.  They seem to be hopeful, but not obscenely confident.  As Rummel said at the beginning of the posted article - the best thing for Jacksonville is if this project makes them both an obscene amount of money. 

I do think the sports district is getting a needed boost with their own district coming online and I fully expect something from Khan in that area as well, but the key to all of this is going to be sustainability. 

Early success is great.  Momentum is awesome.  But what this town has been in dire need of for a long time is sustained success.

To use your words, I felt like this city might have been at a 'tipping point' around 2004/2006, but once the housing market tipped, so did all of our hopes - right in the dumpster.  10 years later, here we are again.   What's going to be different this time?   We have several clusters of development happening at the same time.  In order to make this thing work, there HAS to be something tying them together.

I define the tipping point as when a preponderance of the evidence shows sustainability.

Evidence would include:

*  Major projects are not seeking incentives.
*  If incentives are given, they are only for public realm items, or at the very least public infrastructure.
*  Out of state investors are doing more projects instead of locals like Rummel, Vestcor, etc.  Of course you would still get projects from locals too.
* More projects are private than public, both in number and dollars.
* National retailers or at least regional ones have opened locations.
* A significant sized, general appeal grocer.
* Rents are higher than suburbs. That goes for not only office but residential and hotel rooms.
* Pleasure tourism is rising significantly for consecutive years.
* Articles are being written from out of state newspapers about the 'turnaround' or the great environment DT.
* Parking is getting to be a genuine problem and not an imagined one.   
* You see at least moderately filled sidewalks outside of business hours and ideally MORE filled than during business hours.  Ditto for parking     

In other news, it looks like the district is still moving along at a slower pace than expected.  Shocking I know.

http://jacksonville.com/business/business-notebook/real-estate/2017-04-01/sunday-business-notebook-westside-costco-still

On the positive side, St. Johns Village, Broadstone, Lofts of LaVilla, Houston St Manor and Hendricks/Baptist Convention mixed use site appear to be humming along.

2015

QuoteHealthy Town, probably by another name, could start taking shape on the Downtown Southbank by fall.
Developer Peter Rummell said Thursday that he and development partner Michael Balanky hope to complete the $18.5 million contract to buy the property from JEA within 10 days. The JEA board meets next week.

"Then we'll spend obscene amounts of money and be in the ground this year," Rummell said.

After due diligence on incentives and entitlements, horizontal development could start by fall.

2017

QuoteGroundbreaking, he said, could be in August or September.  The group has agreed to pay a little more than $17 million for the 30 acres.

One of these days everyone will wake up and stop putting their hopes and dreams on big one-trick pony development schemes. Even if everything went according to plan, it would take a good decade or two before projects like The District and Shipyards start to resemble what's been shown in their promotional renderings. Real change typically occurs by getting the much smaller and less complex projects off the ground within a compact setting.  If you catch a whale in the process......cool. However, you can get fat with regular plates of Mahi-mahi too.

^Who put their "hopes and dreams" into the District? Most just thought it would be cool as it's the definition of a dead space and it's a pretty impressive vision. I don't recall them asking for many incentives or making grand promises (unlike, say, the Laura Street Trio).

If you read the papers and listen to most people talk about downtown development in this town, The District, Shipyards, Landing, etc. are the projects you hear.  At least I do, when media, downtown advocates, etc. reach out to me.  Basically its like downtown's fortunes depend on these few complex long term projects, when in actuality it does not.

Revitalization will be made or broken on our ability to get the Elena Flats, Lerner Shops, Jefferson Street Manors, Broadstone, etc. off the ground and activating the dead streets around them, with things like the Court Urban Food Parks, road diets, better lighting, signage, etc., while also backfilling existing vacant office spaces.  If a major project on the fringe of downtown, like the District or Shipyards is delayed or doesn't happen, it's not the end of the world. Development proposals fail to materialize in every city. The key is to squeeze as much stuff and complementing activity into a compact area, as possible, to allow pedestrian scale synergy to generate.

I think this will still happen. Unlike most developers, Rummell has proven he is a very civic minded individual who wants this to work both financially for him but also for Jacksonville. The guy lives about two miles away in San Marco. He cares about this for the city.

If I had to guess, I'd say something will happen but it will never be built out as originally shown in the master plan.

Quote from: thelakelander on April 04, 2017, 11:25:11 AM
If I had to guess, I'd say something will happen but it will never be built out as originally shown in the master plan.

That's the interesting thing about The District. The whole thing is sort of dependent on the entire development, so to speak. I feel like unless they do the whole thing, it's going to look half done.

That's one of the reasons I've been skeptical about this entire thing. I sometimes think the better route would be to lay out the street grid, and sell it block by block. There's a lot more folks that can take 1 or 2 city blocks than a chunk like The District.

But at least having one residential building up at the district would be better than a large empty lot, which seems to be the Jacksonville status quo. 

Quote from: jcjohnpaint on April 04, 2017, 02:50:05 PM
But at least having one residential building up at the district would be better than a large empty lot, which seems to be the Jacksonville status quo.

Hindsight is always 20/20,  but if Jax had created a redevelopment tax credit for those older buildings that got torn down, we wouldnt have the empty zones and be close to what Lake is suggesting.

But they are gone and we cant change it.  But this constant shooting for the home run when singles and doubles would suffice will create these stillborn efforts.

As soon as this is out of the limelight for a couple weeks.....

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=549677

The health-inspired development known as The District will break ground this summer, developer Peter Rummell said Thursday.
The long-awaited infill project will occupy the 28.6-acre parcel where the JEA Southside Generating Station once stood along the Southbank of the St. Johns River.

Rummell told an Urban Land Institute Workshop the project is moving along.

Let's see the shovels.  This project, and its predecessors, have been a long time coming.

Quote from: Jim on April 07, 2017, 11:19:16 AM
Let's see the shovels. 

Amen.  That's when I'll believe it.

Who is their "guy" doing the development leg work on the ground?

Rummell is a high level executive and Munz is a PR guru. Until they get an actual development partner running the day-to-day I won't expect to see dirt moving anytime soon.

QuoteOur vision is much different than what's currently out there," he said.
...
If all goes according to plan, Rummell says The District could be completed by 2019.

Clearly the taller buildings in the last plan we saw are gone. No way they would be able to get everything done by 2019 if there is any height to these buildings. Let's see how different it is when they release the new plans.

^

QuoteThe District is being billed as a community where residents can live, work and keep up a healthy lifestyle.

Rummell said the development and programing are being designed for all ages.

The mixed-use project includes 150,000 square feet of retail space, 200,000 square feet of office space, a marina, and a 150-room hotel.

"Our vision is much different than what's currently out there," he said

I don't think he's saying the plan has changed for the District.

I think he's just saying that the District is different from other developments.

Quote from: KenFSU on April 07, 2017, 02:48:26 PM
^

QuoteThe District is being billed as a community where residents can live, work and keep up a healthy lifestyle.

Rummell said the development and programing are being designed for all ages.

The mixed-use project includes 150,000 square feet of retail space, 200,000 square feet of office space, a marina, and a 150-room hotel.

"Our vision is much different than what's currently out there," he said

I don't think he's saying the plan has changed for the District.

I think he's just saying that the District is different from other developments.

You say that, but if I remember correctly, the last plan had like 7 phases. Finishing the whole thing by sometime in 2019 is a really short timeline for everything that was proposed. Hopefully you are right because I really liked the last plans we saw, and it would be amazing to see that become a reality.

(http://media.news4jax.com/photo/2016/06/28/The-District-masterplan_1467129336230_7204267_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg)

Also read the total statement carefully. It says clearly that the first to be done is the infrastructure - utilities/roads.
I believe at this point that is "breaking ground", not any vertical buildings yet.

It's almost mid-2017. The first phase (infrastructure) may be done by 2019.  Not a snowball's chance in hell that all the buildings shown in that site plan will though.

Don't forget 2006. This town was on the launchpad and everything looked amazing. Then 2008 happened, and it all vanished overnight.

This project has not turned one shovel of dirt. NOT ONE. I love the hype but this is Jacksonville. And that parcel wasn't discovered yesterday. It's been vacant for years. Like the Shipyards and East San Marco.  Add it up and it's a bit depressing. There is a reason there's no Starbucks in Downtown.

I guess what I'm saying is be glad for the little projects that have happened, like Intuition and Black Sheep.  World events and economies can change overnight. Until folks are moving in at The District it's a fluffy little cloud floating by.

You wanna celebrate? Look at what Terra Wise Homes is doing in Springfield. Real homes, real transactions, real families moving in!
A neighborhood changing one lot at a time. One foot in front of the other.

The smaller projects are what gets things going in most cities.  You just take advantage of the bigger ones when you have the opportunity. IMO, things are going well for Jax right now.  There's a lot of exciting projects like Broadstone, Lofts of LaVilla, FSCJ Lerner Shops, Elena Flats, Cowford and even Morton's at the Hyatt, that are moving forward just fine.  Time will tell if we can top them off with a Laura Trio, District or East San Marco.

Quote from: thelakelander on April 09, 2017, 09:26:28 AM
The smaller projects are what gets things going in most cities.  You just take advantage of the bigger ones when you have the opportunity. IMO, things are going well for Jax right now.  There's a lot of exciting projects like Broadstone, Lofts of LaVilla, FSCJ Lerner Shops, Elena Flats, Cowford and even Morton's at the Hyatt, that are moving forward just fine.  Time will tell if we can top them off with a Laura Trio, District or East San Marco.

I agree. Everyday something new is announced. I know many people loathe the SJTC and the Southside, but it is all Jax. With Nordstrom, IKEA,  new hotels and apartments it is all good for Jax. I still believe the thing hurting the most is lack of a larger fixed rail transit system. As shown in many cities, if designed properly, ie. Charlotte,  it will promote urban infill.

Quote from: jaxjags on April 09, 2017, 09:50:35 AM

Quote from: thelakelander on April 09, 2017, 09:26:28 AM
The smaller projects are what gets things going in most cities.  You just take advantage of the bigger ones when you have the opportunity. IMO, things are going well for Jax right now.  There's a lot of exciting projects like Broadstone, Lofts of LaVilla, FSCJ Lerner Shops, Elena Flats, Cowford and even Morton's at the Hyatt, that are moving forward just fine.  Time will tell if we can top them off with a Laura Trio, District or East San Marco.

I agree. Everyday something new is announced. I know many people loathe the SJTC and the Southside, but it is all Jax. With Nordstrom, IKEA,  new hotels and apartments it is all good for Jax. I still believe the thing hurting the most is lack of a larger fixed rail transit system. As shown in many cities, if designed properly, ie. Charlotte,  it will promote urban infill.

I think I saw a proposed fixed rail system to serve the SJTC somewhere recently.

Speaking of smaller projects, Ennis you built some sweet townhomes in Springfield along 6th Street I believe, several years ago. Do the blueprints for those still exist?

Yes.

Quote from: thelakelander on April 09, 2017, 09:26:28 AM
The smaller projects are what gets things going in most cities.  You just take advantage of the bigger ones when you have the opportunity. IMO, things are going well for Jax right now.  There's a lot of exciting projects like Broadstone, Lofts of LaVilla, FSCJ Lerner Shops, Elena Flats, Cowford and even Morton's at the Hyatt, that are moving forward just fine.  Time will tell if we can top them off with a Laura Trio, District or East San Marco.

+1

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/most-of-jea-southbank-property-ruled-environmentally-sound

A large portion of JEA's Downtown Southbank property where its Southside Generating Station once stood is environmentally sound, according to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/construction-will-begin-on-the-southbank-next-year/467694643

Construction will begin on the Southbank next year

So they are paying $17,000,000 for the land, when it closes, correct?

Construction was going to begin on the Southbank last year  :o

This one is like the Shipyards to me. I'll believe it when cranes show up on the site.

"The District" feels a bit "over-engineered" and gimmicky to me.  The activities and the forced inter-generational interactions sound nice, but feel too scripted for that organic sensibility that makes the greatest neighborhoods great.  This feels like a a mixed use waterfront country club that happens to have more multi-story structures than what the region is used to. 

By the way, does anyone know if there is a zoning that emphasizes pedestrian-scale priority over getting around in a car.  "Pedestrian-scale zoning district?"

In Atlanta, they have "Quality of Life " districts that place an emphasis on sidewalk design and layout, planting zones, street level activity and relation of building to street.

In Miami, they have a city-wide Form-based code now: http://www.miami21.org/

Quote from: thelakelander on August 28, 2017, 07:56:52 AM
This one is like the Shipyards to me. I'll believe it when cranes show up on the site.

That's pretty much any construction project in Jacksonville unless its road construction!

Quote from: thelakelander on August 28, 2017, 01:43:41 PM
In Miami, they have a city-wide Form-based code now: http://www.miami21.org/

I just went through the "Illustrated Principles."  Is there some way the COJ could codify these principles for the core city, instead of just downtown or Riverside or Springfield or San Marco?  Too much resistance by neighborhood groups?  Walkability slows down car speeds and getting from A to B? 

Yes. COJ could do a lot of things. The city could strip down and replace the entire code like Miami, if it wanted too. However, I don't think neighborhood resistance is stopping much. I believe it's the other way around. If neighborhood groups and residents knew about these things and actually asked for them, they'd happen faster.

Have they purchased the property from JEA yet? I thought I read that the property has been completely remediated. What's taking so long?

Quote from: Flash60 on August 30, 2017, 02:26:10 PM
Have they purchased the property from JEA yet? I thought I read that the property has been completely remediated. What's taking so long?

Per Munz and Rummell, now that the property has a clean bill of health, the final step before purchasing the property is negotiating a redevelopment agreement with the city. Both seem confident that it'll be an easy, swift process. They're targeting December for purchase of the land.

From there, 12 to 14 months of flat infrastructure construction beginning on the west end of the property - riverwalk, sidewalks, roads, etc - with the hope that vertical construction can begin before horizontal construction has fully wrapped.

The District people claim to be in serious negotiations with a full-scale green grocery store, as well as a 10-12 screen theater chain, with an emphasis on meal service during the shows.

No new info on the hotel chain that signed on, aside from Munz saying that, "it will have a cool, hip urban downtown vibe that works well by being connected to the riverfront."

source: http://residentnews.net/2017/08/02/major-hurdle-cleared-district-moves-forward-development/

Call me optimistic, but I bet we see the District go vertical faster and further than the Shipyards/Met Park in the next couple of years. Rummell's in his 70s now, and I feel like this is a really important legacy project to him personally.

Haven't seen this posted here, but the District has also commissioned Jacksonville University to study the health of residents once they beginning moving in:

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/08/21/ju-will-study-the-benefits-provided-by-the.html

They don't even own the property yet?

Sounds like another East San Marco.

I grew up not five minutes from the site back when it was still used by the JEA. A bunch of us families would sneak in to see fireworks every July 4th. I hope something happens with the site but this sounds like just more press releases. Sound and fury signifying nothing.

Speaking of the southbank, is the Broadstone River House project stalled?

Quote from: jaxnyc79 on August 31, 2017, 06:25:06 AM
Speaking of the southbank, is the Broadstone River House project stalled?

No, just the slowest construction of all time

"Haven't seen this posted here, but the District has also commissioned Jacksonville University to study the health of residents once they beginning moving in"

Will it take into consideration each bucket of hot buttered popcorn/ice cold Coke consumed while at the movie theater?

Quote from: Bativac on August 31, 2017, 12:38:35 AM
They don't even own the property yet?

Sounds like another East San Marco.

I grew up not five minutes from the site back when it was still used by the JEA. A bunch of us families would sneak in to see fireworks every July 4th. I hope something happens with the site but this sounds like just more press releases. Sound and fury signifying nothing.

I don't understand the thing about when a property is bought. Most plans start before closing, or you wouldn't have an incentive for buying it in the first place. There are several projects that have stalled even after the property was purchased (Laura Street Trio, 2 Shipyards, Berkman 2). There are also many projects that were announced before acquiring the land and went on to be successfully completed. If this one fails or stalls, it won't be due to when the land was purchased.

Quote from: Tacachale on August 31, 2017, 09:43:48 AM
I don't understand the thing about when a property is bought. Most plans start before closing, or you wouldn't have an incentive for buying it in the first place. There are several projects that have stalled even after the property was purchased (Laura Street Trio, 2 Shipyards, Berkman 2). There are also many projects that were announced before acquiring the land and went on to be successfully completed. If this one fails or stalls, it won't be due to when the land was purchased.

Well it means they are a little further along in the process. A few less things to get in the way. But generally speaking, I agree it's not a huge difference.