Jax has two schools ranked in the top 10. The list is a ranking of 1,300 public schools across the country.
Quote1. BASIS Charter - Tucson
2. Talented and Gifted - Dallas
3. Suncoast Community - Riviera Beach
4. Science/Engineering Magnet - Dallas
5. Stanton College Prep - Jacksonville
6. Preuss UCSD - La Jolla
7. Academic Magnet - North Charleston
8. Paxon School for Advanced Studies - Jacksonville
9. Oxford Academy - Cypress
10. International School - Bellevue
for full list: http://www.newsweek.com/id/39380
QuoteHere are the Northeast Florida schools listed:
5 â€" Stanton College Preparatory School
8 â€" Paxon School for Advanced Studies
89 â€" Nease High School (St. Johns County)
151 â€" Mandarin High School
176 â€" Douglas Anderson School of Arts
319 â€" Bartram Trail High School
413 â€" St. Augustine High School (St. Johns County)
Duval County school officials said Fletcher High School should be 108 by their estimates. Newsweek is looking into the situation, school district spokeswoman Jill Johnson said.
http://news.jacksonville.com/justin/2008/05/19/two-jacksonville-schools-hit-top-10-in-newsweek-annual-ranking/
don't we have like a 50% dropout rate? quite ridiculous. it is the joke of a school board that we have.
We have our work cut out for us, but it could be worse. Detroit has a 75% dropout rate.
50% seems a bit from the hip - erroneous............
not too far off there blitzer...not too shabby for a guess...
it is 40% drop-out. and i can't think of a reason why dropping out and going to get a GED would be advantageous in any way. i'm sure there are some students who do that, but come on. it's not part of the normal "success path". i think it is usually a..."OMG, what did i do?!?!" kind of thing...and then they head back for the GED. I would guess (that crazy guessing again) it is less than 15% of those who drop out that go back though.
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/121606/met_6848430.shtml
Does the inverse of graduation rate = dropout rate?
Quote from: blizz01 on May 19, 2008, 09:43:44 PM
Does the inverse of graduation rate = dropout rate?
well...if you don't graduate. did you NOT NOT graduate somehow? to answer your question - yes.
yeah...that's it...40% quit and go to FCCJ on the "fast-track" plan. we really have a very bright city here. a veritable Research Triangle Park full of GED-havin know-it-alls. :D
Sorry guys - I wasn't trying to split atoms here.......bottom line is that while our "dropout" rate is not something to be proud of, the basis for the initial topic is.
http://www.ncset.org/publications/essentialtools/dropout/part1.2.asp
good point blizz...thank you for reiterating and bringing us back to the topic at hand. something we can be proud of.
Stephen,
I hate to disagree with you as we agree on so many topics. I do not feel we should look at the Magnet program as a badge of honor but rather as a failure of our system. What we have affectively done is taken our best and brightest and pooled them together leaving the other schools to fend for themselves. What this has done is remove programs from schools for students who may not be the best all around students, and thus cannot compete to enter a school like Stanton, but may excel in a certain subject area. This leaves them with no choice but to take mediocre classes taught by less than qualified teachers.
I see this first hand each day. What is being taught as AP classes now is a joke. I have a son taking several of them at Mandarin High School (by the way the principal now is our AP Euro teacher Mrs Sisler). If it were not for the preparation I have given him from my college texts and supplemental materials we have purchased he would be ill prepared to take the AP exam for any of his classes. He actually has a teacher who has never taught an AP class. Luckily my son has parents who are involved in his learning process.
I love our magnet program it is one of the things we do right.
Quote from: JagFan07 on May 19, 2008, 10:07:07 PM
Stephen,
I hate to disagree with you as we agree on so many topics. I do not feel we should look at the Magnet program as a badge of honor but rather as a failure of our system. What we have affectively done is taken our best and brightest and pooled them together leaving the other schools to fend for themselves. What this has done is remove programs from schools for students who may not be the best all around students, and thus cannot compete to enter a school like Stanton, but may excel in a certain subject area. This leaves them with no choice but to take mediocre classes taught by less than qualified teachers.
exactly JagFan...well put and spot on. it hurts further that we have a school board that is paid relative mega bucks and does a really poor job.
i was in AP too! Actually took the tests too and got college credits - that I subsequently used at a college.
I think I made a 5 on all but one of the tests...a 4 in AP Euro History. I am sooooooo smart. It was tough being separated from the kids that weren't as gifted sometimes (they were always in the regular and plain standard classes), but I still managed to stay friends with most of my "dumb" friends. hehe.
Yes I remember you went to DA, In fact you attended with my younger brother Phil (he was the first class to attend all 4 years at DA 9-12).
While I agree with you that you have to keep the brightest engaged or they will loose focus, I still feel there is a big difference between having separate classes within a school for the "gifted" than having different schools. The teachers who are trained to teach those gifted students will also still be available as resources to teach those who are less gifted in other areas but may excel in a certain area. ie say a student is a horrible at English and is holding his own in a standard class. The same student excels in the area of mathematics. Should this student be deprived of learning from the best math teachers purely due to his lack of skill in English? In the current system the best teachers are pooled together with the best students "All Around" students. This is leaving those who may be extremely talented in certain areas but lacking in others to be left to fend for themselves. They may get lucky and have a school with a teacher that matches their talents, but more than not they will probably end up discouraged and never see their potential.
Quote from: stephendare on May 19, 2008, 10:21:49 PM
Quote from: Driven1 on May 19, 2008, 10:19:13 PM
i was in AP too! Actually took the tests too and got college credits - that I subsequently used at a college.
I think I made a 5 on all but one of the tests...a 4 in AP Euro History. I am sooooooo smart. It was tough being separated from the kids that weren't as gifted sometimes (they were always in the regular and plain standard classes), but I still managed to stay friends with most of my "dumb" friends. hehe.
um. cool.
I can see you had no trouble fitting in.
haha!! nope, sure didn't. while we gifted (the best and the brightest) were excelling and pushing the boundaries academically, we still hung out with our "lesser", not-as-smart friends at lunch time, homeroom and in sports. some of my best friends were stupid.
Quote from: JagFan07 on May 19, 2008, 10:24:27 PM
Yes I remember you went to DA, In fact you attended with my younger brother Phil
Ah. There it is. What I've been seeking. Validation.
Jock, me! now that is really funny!
Seriously, the Magnet Programs have their advantages, but I still feel the affect is leaving the other schools lacking in resources. That being said, the other areas listed in this list are also using similar programs as our Magnet Program, so it is encouraging to see little old Jacksonville with two schools in the top ten.
Driven1, if you have an issue with the school board, it is an elected position. Feel free to get a campaign together and run. I look forward to hearing your platform.
I went to Wolfson, and I think we kicked all your asses. To validate my point, didn't Wolfson High School, graduate more MDs, and JD's then did our next closest competitor on Firestone Avenue. ;D And Douglas Anderson....isn't that the school for the really retarded? No offense. LOL. I mean the "learned challenged" to be politically correct. LMAO.
Dropout rate 50%?
Definitely an outlandish figure coming from the Douglas Anderson perspective. A lot leave the school to go to a neighborhood school, but there's some sort of figure somewhere about 98% graduation rate. I'm in no state of mind to remember the exact details, though.
And while I cynically want to laugh at Gator's comment, rest assured that Douglas Anderson cultivates some intensely brilliant folks.
Any thoughts on the USnews rankings of public high schools?
USnews has a much better methodology than Newsweek (which I think just measured the total number of IB/AP students, rather than actual performance) and the results make a little more sense.
Stantion ranked #43 and Paxon ranked #72 in the nation, and no other Northeast FL schools were in the top tier.
In a sense, I think Jax should be much more proud of this ranking. The Newsweek ranking certainly makes our magnet program look impressive, but the results are tainted because of stupid methodology. No one could reasonably believe that any first coast public school was in the top 10 nationally once you actually look at where these kids are going to college. Having #43 and #72 is credible, and something we can actually be proud of because it's still quite impressive.
I taught in high school in Virginia where very few kids attend private school. The public schools are better for it. Not only are the "good--gifted, socialized," kids taken out of the system in Jax, but also the "good" parents.
I'm not sure how the magnets affect the regular schools. I'd think it would help the individual child, but hurt the ordinary schools.
Smart, hardworking students should never be denied reaching their potential by being placed in schools with dumbed down curriculums to meet the standards of low acheiving students. Our government programs have proven over and over again that the bad drag the good down not the other way around. Schools like Stanton, Paxon and Douglas Anderson give these gifted students a place to learn without being distracted by students who would rather be anywhere other than in school. People need to quit blaming teachers and the school system and place the blame where it belongs,on the parents. They are the reason so many students are failing or dropping out. There is nothing a school can do when education is not valued or supported by families.
Excellent book that addresses how school curriculums have been dumbed down:
The Language Police: How Pressure Groups Restrict What Students Learn
I'll check out that book, Deuce. What is intended by the term "Pressure Group"? Is that a peer thing, or an outside force pressuring the school (like censoring or making them teach with a certain ideal in mind, such as an "abstinence-only 'sex'-education"?
Have the recent budget cuts taken effect, or is the storm a little ways away?
Being stupid, I feel I'm qualified to say that a magnet school seems like the smartest way to go.
We stupid people tend to focus on superficial matters such as popularity, athletic prowess and good looks. It is contagious. Let the top performers be nurtured in an environment that fosters excellence.
Quote from: gatorback on May 19, 2008, 11:43:09 PM
I went to Wolfson, and I think we kicked all your asses. To validate my point, didn't Wolfson High School, graduate more MDs, and JD's then did our next closest competitor on Firestone Avenue. ;D And Douglas Anderson....isn't that the school for the really retarded? No offense. LOL. I mean the "learned challenged" to be politically correct. LMAO.
Wow. The idiocy of the mediocre.
Douglas Anderson is a magnet school geared towards art (or rather, it used to be). Most who go there aren't intending on going to medical school or becoming a lawyer. Those who do follow their major from high school actually go on to succeed in careers that they actually enjoy as opposed to slaving over textbooks for the next 8 years (not that there is anything wrong with that). And, most of us get amazing scholarships so that we're not in debt for the rest of our lives.
And Douglas Anderson ranks highly statewide and nationally for academic performance.
Anyways, back on topic, I'm actually disheartened by the fact that most of the best schools from NE Florida are magnet schools. It shows that our non-specialised schools are lacking in comparison to the rest of the nation.
If anyone gets a chance there is an excellent OP-ED piece on the backpage of Folio Weekly on this subject. It is in the "Scariest People" edition. Written from a teacher's point of view.
Quote from: JagFan07 on May 19, 2008, 10:07:07 PM
Stephen,.............. I do not feel we should look at the Magnet program as a badge of honor but rather as a failure of our system. What we have affectively done is taken our best and brightest and pooled them together leaving the other schools to fend for themselves. ........................
Seems the result. But remember it was done around 20 years ago for a completely differnet reason. It was to encourage white kids to attend schools in non-white areas during our Court supervision era to help achieve unitary school status.
Just reading this thread for the first time. I went to the local public schools well before magnets. Within my HS, we had schools within schools. There was college, vocational, and other tracks. While one tended to share classes with those on the same track we all mixed well in activities, sports, p.e., recess, socializing, etc.
I was on the college track but associated with a range of people ranging from the valedictorian to the class clown. It was a lot of fun and taught us how to work and interface with people of all backgrounds just like in the real world. We didn't have too many snobs of one kind or the other.
What was important was that many students excelled in one subject, say English, but maybe not in others, such as science and math. They would take AP in English and less demanding classes in other subjects. This is important as not everyone is a genius in all subjects. In fact, even among the best students, very few took all AP courses. I took 2 in science, 1 in math, and 1 in history and that was more than most back then. Of course, AP at the time was really special and wasn't offered in nearly as many subjects or flavors as today. There probably weren't more than about a dozen options it seems to me.
Today, magnets may have the advantage of creating a supercharged atmosphere to motivate and elevate the most gifted of students. But the trade off is they fail to inspire or rub off on those not at magnets who might benefit from a some "supercharging" of their own at some other level. And, the gifted in magnets, surrounded only by other gifted, may fail to fully adjust to tolerating those who may not be able to function on the same academic or skill level as them. What happens, when in the real world, all these people need to team and mix together. Does this create some kind of "class" system in our society? The haves and have-nots?
Another issue is that not all kids develop at the same rate. There are many super achievers that bloom late. What inspiration and exposure do they get to the world of high achievement if they are fully segregated? Based on my class reunions, many in the "middle of the class" tended to fair best in life. Maybe they bloomed late and/or avoided early burnout!
Given the large size of most area HS, I believe, within a HS, we can both challenge those who are academically gifted and inspire those who are not currently engaged in the magnet system. However, not having experienced first hand the magnet program, I am unsure if its benefits to the gifted exceed those of the pre-magnet ways. As such, I do think it is worthy of discussion and study before making any conclusions.
I also have heard that magnets can create burn out and that the arrangements to travel across town can be quite burdensome and even detrimental to the success of the student. This, too, should be examined.