QuoteJacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan and his financial firm Stache Investments is ending the association with the One Spark crowdfunding festival.
After pledging to provide funding for top "creators" who participated in One Spark in April, Khan, through his spokesman Jim Woodcock, announced Tuesday that there would be no more support of any of those One Spark participants.
"Mr. Khan's Stache Investments specifically targeted support for Jacksonville entrepreneurs. Stache fulfilled its commitment to One Spark by investing more than $1 million in One Spark's related organization, KYN," Woodcock said in an email. " Stache's cash investments in KYN ultimately provided a disappointing level of financial support to the intended startups."
Full article: http://members.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-10-07/story/shad-khan-jaguars-owner-ends-association-one-spark-calls-financial-ties
So . . . somebody pissed Shad Khan off, is that the bottom line here?
Come on, Stephen. That seems more than a bit over-the-top cynical, isn't it?
" Stache's cash investments in KYN ultimately provided a disappointing level of financial support to the intended startups."
Anyone can read in this. It says that of the cash he provided, too small a percentage went to the actual startups.
Not an unusual issue when looking for a big donor and then find out that only 25 cents of each dollar given actually went to the startups themselves. The rest went to "administrative overhead".
I would be upset to.
Quote from: spuwho on October 07, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
" Stache's cash investments in KYN ultimately provided a disappointing level of financial support to the intended startups."
Anyone can read in this. It says that of the cash he provided, too small a percentage went to the actual startups.
Not an unusual issue when looking for a big donor and then find out that only 25 cents of each dollar given actually went to the startups themselves. The rest went to "administrative overhead".
I would be upset to.
This has been a big concern of mine with One Spark all along. When I requested their 501c3 financials last year they said they weren't prepared to release them yet. Perhaps its time to ask again.
It's the apparent Rummell vs Khan angle that intrigues me. I would have thought the folks behind OneSpark would have absolutely ensured they were attentive to Shad's expectations, etc.
And the Berlin adventure? Hmmmmm ???
so the team is moving.
Quote from: stephendare on October 07, 2014, 10:50:21 PM
Quote from: fsquid on October 07, 2014, 10:47:00 PM
so the team is moving.
If I got taken by a team of hipsters that easily I would leave :)
the hipsters simply took advantage of the guy who owns two really shitty football teams.
4 companies sounds like a really small batch, though. And $1M going to all 4 sounds teeny tiny. Maybe I'm just used to seeing different VC portfolio scopes or reading about different Series A type numbers.
Still, we're talking about pre-pre-pre startup environment here. As the articles allude to, there isn't a culture or an infrastructure base even really setup to breed startups, and that's moreso what KYN seemed to be about than actually funding startups. Super pioneering stuff.
One thing that is notable lacking is "competition". Competition brings results. A place like SF is highly competitive. One really really has to prove out their thesis and pitch quite well (though even Andreesen has had a lot to say about that recently). Lots of $$$$, but even more ideas and the best and brightest flocking to the area for their chance. In Jax, it almost seems like self-motivation to do a little work here and there on some idea. The cost of living allows so many to just float around, and there's never any competition/carrot, or on the flip side, no promise of backing either.
I read a documentary on the creation of "Silicon Valley" recently. There are definitely different puzzle pieces that led to the Bay Area, Austin, Boston, Seattle, Denver, and a few others to be really start-up focused. VC was basically invented in the 50s/60s by Arthur Rock (who's still alive and friends with my roommate's family I should add) as a way to scoop 8 guys out of a fledgling company into their own "startup" (which became Fairchild Semiconductor, bank-rolled by the CEO of Fairchild Camera who was the initial investor called by Rock - Fairchild's dad had founded IBM).
Anyway, I digress.
I'm moreso on Rummell's side, just emotionally, than Khan's. Rummell is a local. Khan is not. Rummell has not taken handouts, per se, to the extent that Khan has. Rummell puts his money where his mouth is, time and time again. Khan hasn't truly proven that to us yet, nor has he fully proven how vested he is in the region (the Jags is a business purchase and can ultimately be moved if need be...the NFL has already whittled 3 teams down, of which 1-2 will go to LA, and San Antonio and a few other markets are being bounced as possible expansions or relocations). So I don't view the Jags as a full on bet on Jacksonville. The local minority owners were bought out, as well, and so it's truly a new non-local who owns the team, not a handful of locals.
Yup, because ownership of the Jags and One Spark totally goes hand and hand!! One cannot do without another!!!! Jesus... ::)
The Rummell vs Khan fight will go all the way through the mayoral election! Curry vs Brown! Give me some popcorn!
I'm a little shocked and saddened by the end to kyn. I guess I haven't had my ears as close to the ground as I used to.
Quote from: I-10east on October 07, 2014, 11:47:15 PM
Yup, because ownership of the Jags and One Spark totally goes hand and hand!! One cannot do without another!!!! Jesus... ::)
It's sometimes hard to figure out if the logic tossed out here is seriously offered or simply jaw-dropping crazy. Has Shad Khan raped this city and I somehow missed it? X, Y or Z interests angle for incentives in Duval County all the time because of the benefits they believe they will bring with a little bit of help but Shad should be dense and not do the same ???
It just appears someone wasn't properly attentive to Shad's opinion. So he's going to move on and work with people who *are* properly attentive. Earth-shaking news, I know. From my brief time on this website, simms3 doesn't view *anything* as a full on bet on Jacksonville. And it's certainly curious to me that simms3 highlights the fact that competition brings results but doesn't champion this embryonic development of competition in Jacksonville, instead informing us on a personal preference for Rummell.
I'm for both of 'em. Shake the trees, gentlemen, make some shiznit happen.
Cool, Stephen. I'd simply add that Khan does have quite a bit holding him here. Exclusive membership in a very valuable club and a stadium deal that likely locks him in beyond the period in which a team or teams will be placed in Los Angeles *and* opposition from the Cowboys and Texans to a team in San Antonio.
It is lazily tossed around that he has no investment here. He has more of an investment here than most anyone else in the entire City, and that can't be denied. What he has in abundance, because of his wealth, is the appearance of options. When it comes to moving the Jacksonville Jaguars, appearances lie. Especially if their creative efforts to make the franchise more profitable pan out. That's why the critique of the scoreboards (IMHO) has been so brain-dead.
Quote from: stephendare on October 08, 2014, 08:55:08 AM
I think that the original comment was a joke (which tendentiously, I-10 simply responded to as though there had been an emergency evacuation call). Simms was just making the case that the Khan doesn't have much holding him here. After all, he can park the boat in lots of places.
Everytime someone says something stupid, that's equals a 'joke' okay...That excuse is so redundant, the premise of 'jokes' should be funny... I hope that you most sports team owners aren't born from the city were the team is located. The whole 'no connection' crap is so overrated (BTW Shad has connections here...). The St Louis Rams owner is from Missouri, and he basically has one foot in LA already. The Jags aren't going anywhere.
^^^Dull and boring, come up with something new....
they actually make most of their profit through the media deal. The Packers have to disclose their financials because they are owned by the fans and the media deal alone was more than their expenses.
Quote from: stephendare on October 08, 2014, 10:04:12 AM
from what I've read, the media deals wouldn't be enough to cover the expenses of the league without the public financing.
each team is different. I'm sure there are some that are propped up. But when your media money puts $190 million in your kitty and the salary cap is around $130 million, you are already $60 million up before ticket sales, luxury boxes, etc. That's why the teams are so damn valuable, even the crap ones print money. Add in the fact that there are many places that will bend over backwards to not lose their team and it becomes even nicer.
Harassing Shahid on not being a supporter of greater Jacksonville is a non starter. Move on.
I wish KYN wasn't the only accelerator in town.
The startup community here suffers, because the people who know investors are not big on exposing them to ideas that are not their own.
It seems to mirror the art community in that way.
KYN did not seem to operate like the startups they served, (bootstrapped and lean) and instead tried to recreate the culture of something like Ycombinator- a accelerator that has launched some extremely successful companies. They should have done some "proof of concept" for themselves, launching a few successful businesses before taking on dedicated space and full salaries. If they had, they would not be in this situation. The majority of the money would have gone to building the companies inside the accelerator, instead of the accelerator itself.
KYN had very little to do with One Spark, and has even less to do with the Jags- why are we talking football in this thread?
Quote from: RattlerGator on October 08, 2014, 09:18:09 AM
Cool, Stephen. I'd simply add that Khan does have quite a bit holding him here. Exclusive membership in a very valuable club and a stadium deal that likely locks him in beyond the period in which a team or teams will be placed in Los Angeles *and* opposition from the Cowboys and Texans to a team in San Antonio.
It is lazily tossed around that he has no investment here. He has more of an investment here than most anyone else in the entire City, and that can't be denied. What he has in abundance, because of his wealth, is the appearance of options. When it comes to moving the Jacksonville Jaguars, appearances lie. Especially if their creative efforts to make the franchise more profitable pan out. That's why the critique of the scoreboards (IMHO) has been so brain-dead.
Good points, but I'd still offer that there is a degree of flexibility in the NFL and that may increase soon after this year (just a hunch) with all of the snafus going on that are hurting PR and hurting teams by alienating fans.
But I digress, Khan doesn't have, nearly to the degree that Rummell has, an emotional attachment to the city. The success of a OneSpark or downtown real estate really has no bearing on the success of the Jaguars. Overall, a happy/healthy city will do Khan well. But we're finding out that it's a (imho) much more difficult game to develop downtown successfully than to ride the nearly guaranteed base returns that ownership of an NFL team provides, and we're finding out that with downtown so far gone, still, that giant scoreboards mostly on the city bed tax's dime make people happy. So to that end, OneSpark, downtown investment, etc etc are mutually exclusive to the Jaguars, and thus Khan is rooted moreso in a team than the city. Anything else is a splash gift for PR at this point, and with no players in town, he's held up as some mere god and his every move talked about (in almost entirely a positive light).
The same thing that draws me to post on these forums even though I haven't lived in Jax for 8 years is the same thing that Rummell has that Khan likely never will, even after years of owning the Jags. That is hometown pride and a true emotional attachment. Combine this emotional attachment with Rummell's permanent residence there (with his family and kids), his brain, and his money, and you have the ingredients of a much longer term view/investment in the city than someone who just bought the local sports team and so far is all about making a splash.
Anyway, people's comments about KYN are interesting. KYN itself should have considered themselves a 5th startup and proven out before spending money on overhead. If they knew they were supposed to bring 4 other startups to the next level, they should have kept overhead to their own somewhat minimal salaries before taking on money for real overhead, or in their business plan they should have laid out that they would need x, y, and z resources to sustain themselves to be able to sustain and grow other businesses at that scale, and taken on that overhead amount plus $1M for the other 4 firms.
What it sounds like is there are 2-3 guys in the entire city willing to shell out what amounts to minimal, minimal money. A million here and a million there is nothing if there are dozens of qualified, good ideas floating around.
I don't know what all the confusion is. It seems crystal clear from reading Khan's statement that what he's pissed about is that he donated $X but only a small portion of $X actually made it to the companies he intended to invest in.
If they are a 501 c 3 ( or 501 anything) they are required to at least make their 990's public if requested. I do not know how much else, if anything (I have a 501 c 3 and I'm not even sure...), they are required to make pubic but the 990 is without a doubt and will give you what you are looking for: where the money went. Often, the 990's are on-line even. If they are refusing to give you the 990's then contact the Feds.
Agreed, ChriswUfGator. This is cause, yet again, for kudos to Shad. He put up real money as a good-faith test. The One Spark people failed the test.
simms3, I get the emotional connection angle and appreciate it. But you have a weird way of talking about Jacksonville (just my personal opinion) and a weird way of doubting a real mover and shaker in our town, Shad Khan. So much so that you personally prefer Rummell on this VC thing but -- as of this writing -- Rummell (and I have nothing against the man; as I've written, I'm for both and anyone else willing to make things happen in Jax) was rolling with these folks who likely weren't delivering the goods as promised.
You prefer that? Clearly not, I hope.
How about giving Shad Khan some damn dap? Some unreserved, genuine dap for making a good-faith effort and then, upon prudent review, alerting the City to a potential problem. Isn't it within you to at least do that?
Though Shad Khan doesn't have a long history in Big Duval, I find any argument that he isn't SERIOUSLY invested here nothing short of bizarre and more than a little nativistic -- which is an odd occurrence, given the politics that periodically bleed through here.
Quote from: strider on October 08, 2014, 01:21:56 PM
If they are a 501 c 3 ( or 501 anything) they are required to at least make their 990's public if requested. I do not know how much else, if anything (I have a 501 c 3 and I'm not even sure...), they are required to make pubic but the 990 is without a doubt and will give you what you are looking for: where the money went. Often, the 990's are on-line even. If they are refusing to give you the 990's then contact the Feds.
I'm not sure they ever got the 501/non-profit thing fully ironed out
Quote from: CityLife on October 07, 2014, 08:56:46 PM
Quote from: spuwho on October 07, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
" Stache's cash investments in KYN ultimately provided a disappointing level of financial support to the intended startups."
Anyone can read in this. It says that of the cash he provided, too small a percentage went to the actual startups.
Not an unusual issue when looking for a big donor and then find out that only 25 cents of each dollar given actually went to the startups themselves. The rest went to "administrative overhead".
I would be upset to.
This has been a big concern of mine with One Spark all along. When I requested their 501c3 financials last year they said they weren't prepared to release them yet. Perhaps its time to ask again.
All 501c3 charities are required to provide 990's if you walk into their offices. If you write them, including email, they must provide access within 30-days.
http://www.guidestar.org/rxa/news/articles/2003/get-the-facts-990-disclosure-rules.aspx
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 08, 2014, 01:30:28 PM
Quote from: strider on October 08, 2014, 01:21:56 PM
If they are a 501 c 3 ( or 501 anything) they are required to at least make their 990's public if requested. I do not know how much else, if anything (I have a 501 c 3 and I'm not even sure...), they are required to make pubic but the 990 is without a doubt and will give you what you are looking for: where the money went. Often, the 990's are on-line even. If they are refusing to give you the 990's then contact the Feds.
I'm not sure they ever got the 501/non-profit thing fully ironed out
Quote from: chrismarkl on October 08, 2014, 02:31:08 PM
Quote from: CityLife on October 07, 2014, 08:56:46 PM
Quote from: spuwho on October 07, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
" Stache's cash investments in KYN ultimately provided a disappointing level of financial support to the intended startups."
Anyone can read in this. It says that of the cash he provided, too small a percentage went to the actual startups.
Not an unusual issue when looking for a big donor and then find out that only 25 cents of each dollar given actually went to the startups themselves. The rest went to "administrative overhead".
I would be upset to.
This has been a big concern of mine with One Spark all along. When I requested their 501c3 financials last year they said they weren't prepared to release them yet. Perhaps its time to ask again.
All 501c3 charities are required to provide 990's if you walk into their offices. If you write them, including email, they must provide access within 30-days.
http://www.guidestar.org/rxa/news/articles/2003/get-the-facts-990-disclosure-rules.aspx
Last time I checked, they were a provisional 501c3 (paperwork still under IRS review), so not sure they were required to provide the documentation. I'll try again.
Hey guys, back this summer I wrote the economic analysis of one spark that received some minor coverage http://www.onesparkimpact.com
Anyways I enjoy discussing and learning from you all regarding startups - thus when I saw these articles, I decided to write some informal analysis about KYN. Please know I'm an outsider to KYN so anything I write is speculation.
But my thoughts can be seen here:
http://socentu.com/2014/10/kyn-jacksonville-accelerator-has-closed/
Cheers
Chris
Wasn't KYN to be one of the tenants in the Barnett Bldg?
Interesting write-up, Chris. Thanks for the link.
Quote from: CityLife on October 08, 2014, 02:35:49 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 08, 2014, 01:30:28 PM
Quote from: strider on October 08, 2014, 01:21:56 PM
If they are a 501 c 3 ( or 501 anything) they are required to at least make their 990's public if requested. I do not know how much else, if anything (I have a 501 c 3 and I'm not even sure...), they are required to make pubic but the 990 is without a doubt and will give you what you are looking for: where the money went. Often, the 990's are on-line even. If they are refusing to give you the 990's then contact the Feds.
I'm not sure they ever got the 501/non-profit thing fully ironed out
Quote from: chrismarkl on October 08, 2014, 02:31:08 PM
Quote from: CityLife on October 07, 2014, 08:56:46 PM
Quote from: spuwho on October 07, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
" Stache's cash investments in KYN ultimately provided a disappointing level of financial support to the intended startups."
Anyone can read in this. It says that of the cash he provided, too small a percentage went to the actual startups.
Not an unusual issue when looking for a big donor and then find out that only 25 cents of each dollar given actually went to the startups themselves. The rest went to "administrative overhead".
I would be upset to.
This has been a big concern of mine with One Spark all along. When I requested their 501c3 financials last year they said they weren't prepared to release them yet. Perhaps its time to ask again.
All 501c3 charities are required to provide 990's if you walk into their offices. If you write them, including email, they must provide access within 30-days.
http://www.guidestar.org/rxa/news/articles/2003/get-the-facts-990-disclosure-rules.aspx
Last time I checked, they were a provisional 501c3 (paperwork still under IRS review), so not sure they were required to provide the documentation. I'll try again.
Please do, and please post them. You can receive 990s for the last three years, 2011, 2012, 2013. There is no way around it. One Spark is listed on the IRS site, link below, as a public charity - thus disclosure is required by law and inability to provide 990s results in daily fines. Ultimately if they do not provide these finances their 501c3 status can be revoked. Please know I'm not anti one spark, I just believe in transparency in finances and impact.
http://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/
45-5473493 One Spark Incorporated Jacksonville FL United States PC
I'm not anti-One Spark either, just want to ensure they aren't paying exorbitant salaries, living it up on expense accounts, and financing outside projects. My request has been put in for all 3 years and they are on notice that I will be contacting the IRS if they don't comply. I'll be sure to post when (or if) I get them.
Oh and everyone check out Chris's blog post. Good stuff.
Quote from: RattlerGator on October 08, 2014, 02:47:35 PM
Interesting write-up, Chris. Thanks for the link.
Don't think you were around when this happened RG:
Analysis: Not enough crowdfunding dollars at 'world's crowdfunding festival' (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=21585.15)
Quote from: RattlerGator on October 08, 2014, 02:47:35 PM
Interesting write-up, Chris. Thanks for the link.
Thanks! I hope it begins a larger discussion how to grow North Florida's entrepreneur ecosystem.
Quote from: CityLife on October 08, 2014, 02:52:21 PM
I'm not anti-One Spark either, just want to ensure they aren't paying exorbitant salaries, living it up on expense accounts, and financing outside projects. My request has been put in for all 3 years and they are on notice that I will be contacting the IRS if they don't comply. I'll be sure to post when (of if) I get them.
Oh and everyone check out Chris's blog post. Good stuff.
Awesome. I look forward to seeing finances as well. Thanks for the kind words. Please feel free to share my post on Facebook/twitter etc. I just started a new faculty job at Florida State University - as an entrepreneur in residence. My entire job is to empower students to start businesses and analysis the startup community. Thus I'm really hoping to write as much as possible and build a community in north florida develop innovative ways to foster entrepreneurship.
Cheers
Chris
Quote from: CityLife on October 08, 2014, 02:52:21 PM
I'm not anti-One Spark either, just want to ensure they aren't paying exorbitant salaries, living it up on expense accounts, and financing outside projects. My request has been put in for all 3 years and they are on notice that I will be contacting the IRS if they don't comply. I'll be sure to post when (of if) I get them.
Oh and everyone check out Chris's blog post. Good stuff.
I am very curious to see these financials if/when you get them. Per the Jacksonville Business Journal (via Chris' excellent blog post), four start-ups were given $35k each. So $140k of the $1,000,000 invested by Stache Investments in 2013 went to the start-ups accepted into the incubator. Where did the other $860k go?
Quote from: chrismarkl on October 08, 2014, 03:06:35 PM
I just started a new faculty job at Florida State University - as an entrepreneur in residence. My entire job is to empower students to start businesses and analysis the startup community. Thus I'm really hoping to write as much as possible and build a community in north florida develop innovative ways to foster entrepreneurship.
I'd love to hear more about this. Perhaps MetroJacksonville will allow you to post a guest column giving us more info.
I'd be interested to see what the numbers say too. I did raise an eyebrow when I heard that they would take up a bunch of room in the Barnett Bank building. The renovation isn't cheap, and those floors cost a lot of money. What they do is their business, but if I was a large donor, then I'd like to see where my money went as well.
Note that he isn't closing Stache Investments here. He simply decided that Kyn wasn't an investment that he wanted to keep. As far as I know he didn't promise to invest forever.
Quote from: edjax on October 08, 2014, 02:44:32 PM
Wasn't KYN to be one of the tenants in the Barnett Bldg?
yes..along with One Spark and CoWork Jax
Quote from: stephendare on October 08, 2014, 04:11:47 PM
Quote from: finehoe on October 08, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: chrismarkl on October 08, 2014, 03:06:35 PM
I just started a new faculty job at Florida State University - as an entrepreneur in residence. My entire job is to empower students to start businesses and analysis the startup community. Thus I'm really hoping to write as much as possible and build a community in north florida develop innovative ways to foster entrepreneurship.
I'd love to hear more about this. Perhaps MetroJacksonville will allow you to post a guest column giving us more info.
We would love to. Chris Markl is no stranger to mj, and when he posted his comments about the underlying mathematics a year ago, there was spirited discussion, which ended in the release of One Spark's actual money in/money out statements.
What was not addressed however, was the history or involvement of KYN, which seems to be the source of all the mayhem.
Thanks! I love MetroJacksonville, its such a great forum to wrestle with importance issues. Anything I write, including previous one spark analysis, is only to provide one viewpoint on entrepreneurship. For me, what is important is to foster discussion on economic development and entrepreneurship in north florida.
Cheers
Chris
Quote from: stephendare on October 08, 2014, 04:11:47 PM
Quote from: finehoe on October 08, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: chrismarkl on October 08, 2014, 03:06:35 PM
I just started a new faculty job at Florida State University - as an entrepreneur in residence. My entire job is to empower students to start businesses and analysis the startup community. Thus I'm really hoping to write as much as possible and build a community in north florida develop innovative ways to foster entrepreneurship.
I'd love to hear more about this. Perhaps MetroJacksonville will allow you to post a guest column giving us more info.
We would love to. Chris Markl is no stranger to mj, and when he posted his comments about the underlying mathematics a year ago, there was spirited discussion, which ended in the release of One Spark's actual money in/money out statements.
What was not addressed however, was the history or involvement of KYN, which seems to be the source of all the mayhem.
I went back and read this discussion, but saw no release of statements, can you provide a link?
Quote from: stephendare on October 08, 2014, 05:28:53 PM
it was on a separate thread, dukes. Ill see if i can find it.
I linked it above.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 08, 2014, 02:52:59 PM
Don't think you were around when this happened RG:
Analysis: Not enough crowdfunding dollars at 'world's crowdfunding festival' (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=21585.15)
No, I sure wasn't. Thanks for the link -- quite an interesting thread. I have to admit, I was surprised by Stephen's strong skepticism of Markl's work. The selected excerpt first posted by
the lakelander appeared to me to be right on the money, and unambiguous.
I drove over to check out a bit of OneSpark, downloaded and took a look at their mobile app on my phone, was basically pleased by the vibe I found downtown, and I've since talked to some friends and acquaintances who are intrigued by the idea of it. But crowdfunding was / is clearly the hook of OneSpark and I admit to being quite fuzzy then about the whole enterprise.
Here's to hoping they take all of the current developments to heart and work on humbly improving their effort.
Quote from: GoldenEst82 on October 08, 2014, 11:33:50 AM
I wish KYN wasn't the only accelerator in town.
It's unique for what it does, but are there not other kinds of "accelerators" in Jax? I've read about iStart and The Factory. Beaver Street Enterprise Center though that's a lot less hi-tech. I believe there was another one primarily for coding. Not to mention some incubators as well.
Quoteyes..along with One Spark and CoWork Jax
Why would Co-Work Jax move from where they are now? A block away in the nice digs above Perdue office interiors. Maybe they need more room?
Quotejust listing possibilities, rattler, not stating the gospel.
but still speculating, eh? :)
QuoteIt was a decent block party and music/food festival, which couldnt succeed without Rummell funding it, and that's it. And then, because everyone was drinking the OS Kool Aid, KYN was supposed to be so amazing because...
Khan was wasting his money on One Spark and Kyn and finally saw that.
Like it or not, after reading the thread and the Times Union article, Khan is a businessman, was not getting a return on the "investment" and decided to change. From the 50,000 foot level, seems like a good business decision. If KYN was a credible, successful solution, where were the other funding sources? Why would you allow one person to dictate and cause peril to the company without his (Khan) funding? Business 101, if you need resources to live, go find more people with the resources needed.
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 09, 2014, 03:30:11 AM
Like it or not, after reading the thread and the Times Union article, Khan is a businessman, was not getting a return on the "investment" and decided to change.
I read the same articles. When you compliment the reporting with comments from some of your more trusted people on social media, the picture starts to become a little more clear. So couple all of that with the comments from Markl and City not being able to get their hands on the financials....
If I had put up seed money and no one could provide me any updates as to how much is left and where it went, I would be unlikely to hand over any more. Unless I could SEE some progress, but they seem to only have 5 viable startups their working with and only 1 of those is poised show any return at all, out of close to 450 applicants.... Yeah, you need to show me a solid paper-trail.
From the Times-Union:
QuoteShad Khan blasts One-Spark related group KYN: Claims only about 12% of his money was helping startups
"Mr. Khan's companies wrote checks for over $1.1 million to KYN, more than fulfilling Mr. Khan's commitments," Woodcock said in an email sent to the Times-Union late Wednesday night. "KYN's financial records reveal that KYN distributed less than 12 percent of Mr. Khan's companies' cash investments to the startup companies and entrepreneurs that Mr. Khan intended to inspire and assist."
Beyond the critique of the use of funds, Woodcock said that KYN administrators and associates were enriching themselves with Khan's money.
"KYN paid its top employees and advisors an amount many times greater than it distributed to Jacksonville startups. KYN offered no realistic plan to address these issues, and had developed no other funding source. The rational conclusion was that further investment in KYN was not sustainable," Woodcock said.
Full (paid) story at:
http://members.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-10-09/story/shad-khan-blasts-one-spark-related-group-claims-only-about-12-his-money
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on October 09, 2014, 09:38:31 AM
Quote from: CityLife on October 08, 2014, 02:52:21 PM
I'm not anti-One Spark either, just want to ensure they aren't paying exorbitant salaries, living it up on expense accounts, and financing outside projects. My request has been put in for all 3 years and they are on notice that I will be contacting the IRS if they don't comply. I'll be sure to post when (or if) I get them.
Oh and everyone check out Chris's blog post. Good stuff.
I can assure you, One Spark is paying exorbitant salaries. Over $100K/year to certain "executives" who did...little, beyond promoting his/her own brilliance. And the rest of the folks there were at around $70K-- all this for an unproven event that hadn't even been staged yet.
I've got the numbers and will be sharing soon.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 09, 2014, 12:56:28 AM
Quote from: GoldenEst82 on October 08, 2014, 11:33:50 AM
I wish KYN wasn't the only accelerator in town.
It's unique for what it does, but are there not other kinds of "accelerators" in Jax? I've read about iStart and The Factory. Beaver Street Enterprise Center though that's a lot less hi-tech. I believe there was another one primarily for coding. Not to mention some incubators as well.
TIL!
However, I still stand by my lamentations over the "closed" information systems in Jax. ;)
I have really tried to insert myself into both the art community and the startup culture, (as much as my family life and financial circumstances allow) and it is NOT easy to "connect" in this town.
That the last post quoting Khan confirmed KYN's demise was due to exactly what I suspected
.
9 of 10 startups fail- WHY would you pay yourself such a salary (or any salary, really) when you have yet to debut a business that would warrant such congratulations? You have to kiss a lot of frogs in the startup world, and until you find a prince, the money should be being used to find more frogs to kiss, and to kiss the frogs you got.
Then again, it never ceases to amaze me how poor a financial steward someone can be, when the money is not theirs. I just hope it hasn't soured other big investors on taking a chance on folks in Jax.
Quote from: stephendare on October 08, 2014, 10:07:34 PM
Strong skepticism is an asset in public life, RattlerGator. It keeps you from making unfounded accusations.
Agreed. Misplaced skepticism, however, is not -- especially when the misplaced skepticism is based on an apparent presumption of questionable intentions. You were clearly guilty of the latter, in my opinion.
QuoteIn the case of the festival itself, there was no foundation for the claims.
I disagree. Markl clearly zeroed in on crowdfunding and simply used the 100% crowdfunding figure to speak to both the participants
and the organizers, in something of an effort to deliver a
word to the wise to
both groups. You didn't seem to grasp that at the time and I'm not sure you get it now.
QuoteAnd in fairness, (and IM sure that Chris Markl would agree) the original criticism was that enough money wasn't being raised that could 100% fund entrepreneurial startups.
As indicated above, that's not the way I read it. A more charitable (or simply neutral) presumption seemed to be in order. I never like to presume bad intentions when I'm ignorant (or confused) regarding where someone is coming from -- but I know I'm guilty of doing so at times, even though I know it isn't the best approach. Still, we're all human.
QuoteI can tell you that the spokesman for ONE Spark has stopped answering any questions about KYN, and is directing people to ask Elton himself personally. Cant be a good sign.
On that we absolutely agree. I don't mean to come off wrong on this thread or overly critical of you Stephen (I genuinely appreciate this site and what you're doing), just saying the tone from you in the original thread surprised me.
If the 12% number turns out to be true, then that is staggeringly low (not sure that's a word). Generally for investment organizations , you want that number closer to flipped. Also interesting that a month ago, Stache's chief investment officer "left"-no reason was given, and Rummel states that Kyn and the CIO worked very closely. This might (begin speculation) have been a case where Khan did a review of Stache, realized the money had no return, got rid of the CIO, had someone dig in and came up with these numbers, then Khan flipped his lid and ended the relationship.
What could also be the case is that Rivas is realizing that running a festival and running an investment organization are extremely different things. Perhaps he's good at the festival and not the investment thing. (End speculation)
Quote from: GoldenEst82 on October 09, 2014, 10:13:07 AM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 09, 2014, 12:56:28 AM
Quote from: GoldenEst82 on October 08, 2014, 11:33:50 AM
I wish KYN wasn't the only accelerator in town.
It's unique for what it does, but are there not other kinds of "accelerators" in Jax? I've read about iStart and The Factory. Beaver Street Enterprise Center though that's a lot less hi-tech. I believe there was another one primarily for coding. Not to mention some incubators as well.
TIL!
However, I still stand by my lamentations over the "closed" information systems in Jax. ;)
I have really tried to insert myself into both the art community and the startup culture, (as much as my family life and financial circumstances allow) and it is NOT easy to "connect" in this town.
That the last post quoting Khan confirmed KYN's demise was due to exactly what I suspected
.
9 of 10 startups fail- WHY would you pay yourself such a salary (or any salary, really) when you have yet to debut a business that would warrant such congratulations? You have to kiss a lot of frogs in the startup world, and until you find a prince, the money should be being used to find more frogs to kiss, and to kiss the frogs you got.
Then again, it never ceases to amaze me how poor a financial steward someone can be, when the money is not theirs. I just hope it hasn't soured other big investors on taking a chance on folks in Jax.
Yeah, I agree with you on all accounts but just wanted to offer some hope. No doubt Kyn was the biggest and most visible, attracting applicants from all over the country, but hopefully the momentum in the local startup community is not all lost.
Quote from: Steve on October 09, 2014, 11:06:05 AM
If the 12% number turns out to be true, then that is staggeringly low (not sure that's a word). Generally for investment organizations , you want that number closer to flipped. Also interesting that a month ago, Stache's chief investment officer "left"-no reason was given, and Rummel states that Kyn and the CIO worked very closely. This might (begin speculation) have been a case where Khan did a review of Stache, realized the money had no return, got rid of the CIO, had someone dig in and came up with these numbers, then Khan flipped his lid and ended the relationship.
Thing is...to me essentially as an outsider, I knew the amount of money they were investing into the startups. It was very clear in the application process. I'd imagine this was very clear to Stache. So it shouldnt have taken them so long to realize and be 'outraged.' I just had no idea their investment of 1 million had evaporated due to overhead costs. But there is merit to the idea that for this type of venture, such capital costs are needed in order to achieve the long term returns that were sought. If the business plan shared with Stache was not clear in this respect then I can understand their reaction, but we'll have to wait til the smoke clears to determine if that was the case.
That could be the case. If it's 12% the first year, 40% the second, 60% the third, etc, that's one thing.
Quote from: CityLife on October 09, 2014, 09:59:01 AM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on October 09, 2014, 09:38:31 AM
Quote from: CityLife on October 08, 2014, 02:52:21 PM
I'm not anti-One Spark either, just want to ensure they aren't paying exorbitant salaries, living it up on expense accounts, and financing outside projects. My request has been put in for all 3 years and they are on notice that I will be contacting the IRS if they don't comply. I'll be sure to post when (or if) I get them.
Oh and everyone check out Chris's blog post. Good stuff.
I can assure you, One Spark is paying exorbitant salaries. Over $100K/year to certain "executives" who did...little, beyond promoting his/her own brilliance. And the rest of the folks there were at around $70K-- all this for an unproven event that hadn't even been staged yet.
I've got the numbers and will be sharing soon.
Woah awesome! Can't wait to see them!
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 09, 2014, 03:30:11 AM
Quoteyes..along with One Spark and CoWork Jax
Why would Co-Work Jax move from where they are now? A block away in the nice digs above Perdue office interiors. Maybe they need more room?
Yes...that is the case...they need more room...in fact, they are looking to expand to other parts of the community, such as the beach.
In related news...the PR folks at One Spark are on the offensive today. Just got my third email about the Jacksonville festival in 2015, and they updated their FB cover photo with the Jacksonville dates. Looks like they want to make sure that people know that One Spark is still a go
Looks like the confusion may be blamed on that recently departed CEO of Stache. He approved all of the KYN expenses and my guess is that Khan didn't fully grasp what was happening and just trusted his longtime advisor. Giving the benefit of the doubt to KYN, this miscommunication must suck for all involved...especially the two businesses going through the accelerator right now.
http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544054
Quote from: stephendare on October 08, 2014, 10:07:34 PMHowever had we continued on looking up and proving the allegations, then the KYN situation would have probably come to light, as it eventually has.
I was actually one of the first critics of how the money was distributed in the first year. Along with Al Letson.
And in fairness, (and IM sure that Chris Markl would agree) the original criticism was that enough money wasn't being raised that could 100% fund entrepreneurial startups. We now know that several millions were raised, but that it apparently didn't make it to many startups (and it wasn't exactly 'crowd funded).
Elton doesn't deal with criticism well, Im sure that he will have his own response to the questions soon enough.
I can tell you that the spokesman for ONE Spark has stopped answering any questions about KYN, and is directing people to ask Elton himself personally. Cant be a good sign.
The reason why One Spark would stop giving comment is because KYN and One Spark are two separate entities. Other than being the venue that fosters Creators, One Spark has nothing to do with what goes on at KYN and vice versa. The same goes for the difference between One Spark's crowdfund and the potential capital by Stache Investments and other private venture capital groups.
I think it is important to highlight the difference between the crowdfund and the potential investors for Creators. The crowdfund is what Creators are trying to garner votes for during the festival and it is raised by efforts at One Spark, Inc (RocketHub crowdfunding campaign, sponsorships, etc). As an addition to the crowdfund, Stache Investments (as well as other private venture capital firms) was supposed to go around and select Creators that they felt were worthy of investment. Anyone can do this, not just Stache Investments or the potential VC firms. If you love a Creator's idea, you could be that angel investor that gets them off the ground. In the case of Stache Investments, it would eventually ensure a spot at KYN to make that startup viable. These investments were a pledge to possibly invest in startups. It was never a guarantee and never given to One Spark as part of the crowdfund.
Here's the press release from January 30th of this year about the $3.25 million in potential investment: https://www.beonespark.com/jacksonville/blog/press-release-one-spark-grows-to-3-25-million-in-private-investment-opportunities-for-creators (https://www.beonespark.com/jacksonville/blog/press-release-one-spark-grows-to-3-25-million-in-private-investment-opportunities-for-creators)
Several millions were not raised for One Spark, Inc, but were potential investments for Creators from venture capital firms that would lead to those Creators enrolling at KYN. It would not factor into Mr. Markl's research of the spread of the crowdfund.
Rivas responds:
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/10/09/exclusiverivas-pushes-back-against-allegations-of.html?ana=fbk
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/10/08/with-kyn-shuttered-whats-next-for-jacksonvilles.html?page=2
Quote"After every shutdown of an organization or startup that fails, there are people involved in it who branch out and launch their own things; it's the evolution of a startup community and we [Jacksonville] are still in our infancy," said Vaughan, whose Jacksonville software engineering solutions company often works with emerging businesses. "I hope people don't see this as a negative, or that it divides the community."
Bill Prescott, a principle with the Heritage Capital Group, pointed to other business accelerators similar to Kyn that continue to thrive in Jacksonville, such as Healthbox and Ignite.
"I don't think this will stop the momentum that's been created around this city as an innovation hub," said Prescott.
I forgot about the Healthbox accelerator. I believe Florida Blue has put a lot of money into that. As for Ignite, that's really an incubator, owned by Adecco.
Gotta love Rummell.....
"I don't wanna get in a food fight with Shad Khan"
^The way not to do that is to stop talking about it publicly. At the end of the day, Khan can do with his money as he pleases. If the guy decides to pull his cash because he doesn't think he's made a sound investment, so be it. Let him go and move on.
I'm just putting out there, I'm siding with #TeamKhan. It clearly sounds like pulling out of this deal was totally justified. Of course Khan is gonna catch ire from some that passionately reply to like seven consecutive scoreboard related threads over the span of many months, so that line is clearly drawn...There's something about Rummell that rubs me the wrong way, I can't explain it.
I don't fault Khan in getting out of that shysty situation. Why even have One Spark?? Rummell said that it didn't do anything for Jax, right??? (Can that be taken as a 'joke'?).
Quote from: I-10east on October 10, 2014, 07:25:08 AM
Why even have One Spark?? Rummell said that it didn't do anything for Jax, right??? (Can that be taken as a 'joke'?).
This comments can. He didn't say that. Not even the media would misconstrue his comment that much.
^^^It was a 'joke'.
Pretty hard not to side with Khan, 12% of the money he contributed actually made it to where he thought it was going. I mean, really, not that it's apparently stopping them, but what do you say to that?
Sides don't have to be taken. Which is why it is weird that some of this is playing out in public.
What should be the lesson in all this is that KYN had all their eggs in one basket. They should have been developing other financing and funding channels. Funds and those that supply them fall through all the time. Important to have multiple plans for all kinds of situations.
It's just a business.
Khan had a guy approving expenditures, we know that much. I don't blame him for not being super happy with such a small percentage going towards seed money, but he has some of the blame for letting it go this far, and he has (in my opinion) the lions share of fault for essentially shutting the entire operation down.
It really seems like a better agreement could have been reached once Khan figured all this out. Put stipulations on how the money is spent. I'm positive they would rather take a greatly regulated donation rather than have to shutter the whole damn store. What gets me is that the people he's actually hurting by proceeding this way isn't just the owners/operators of KYN. It's also the businesses they were 'accelerating' and the startup culture that Jacksonville is JUST starting to embrace in big, internationally notable ways.
It just bums me out, really.
EDIT: And BTW I'm not trying to argue the idea that he owed anything to anybody, or that he HAS to continue working with anyone he's working with. He's no altruist. But it just seemed like for somebody that has been putting out lots of pro-Jacksonville steps and seemingly investing in the future of the city this is a big step back that didn't need to exactly go the way it did. It could have been a speed bump instead of a road block.
Insomnia.
One Spark ! What is it? What has it been? What should it be? What can it be?
I've read only short bits about One Spark, and unfortunately I did not get around much to view the various exhibits -- so some specifics I convey might be off, and some assumptions might show my ignorance.
The name is good. It's positive and catchy, sorta like Starbucks. "Spark" and "Star" are positive words. One would not use Two Bit ... or Dumb Show ... etc. One Spark. The name has provided good momentum to the original growth.
It is my understanding that the purpose of One Spark was to match new and promising entrepreneurial ventures with money so that a business that might not ever be, would be.
I suspect that for every 100 ideas offered for consideration, only one or two would possess the attributes allowing eventual long-term success -- after reasonable injections of hard work and funding. All of the remaining hopefuls are destined to fail because they lack from the start, the fundamental ingredients for success.
So the goal of One Spark is to discover and support the ideas having the attributes for long-term success. How is this done? First by voting via the attendees of One Spark, and then by select judges sitting close to the fund sources?
No matter its fundamental purpose, any event having many thousands of attendees will have components of food, music, and social interaction, fun, and hoopla. I suspect that anyone organizing an event like One Spark would wish to ensure that the fundamental purpose of it -- the serious business of cultivating, judging, and funding potential ventures -- is held tight in focus so that the event does not drift to approximate a typical music or beer festival.
If one wants a music / beer festival four times a year to generate revenue for the core businesses .. then by all means, do so, but I suggest that one not destroy the essence, and ultimately the success of, one event, by allowing it to become degraded by frivolous scrambles for daily revenue gains at any cost to the quality of the event's original purpose.
The event becomes vulnerable to failure if the essence of it drifts from the original purpose, or if fund contributors suspect that available funds are not being used in the most effective and efficient way. The success also suffers as the ambiguous or low criteria for ideas fails to encourage and promote reasonably high standards of preparation, skill, ingenuity, and creativity.
Besides providing the necessary funding to the rare project that is viable, a very important benefit of One Spark has been to encourage individuals to "think" about the possibility of becoming an entrepreneur. And even though their first submittal did not go the distance, the frame of mind gained might result in a future success.
This latter aspect of One Spark is important to our society -- as it counters the trend of depending increasingly on the mega producer / manufacturer in China or Mexico -- and it counters dependency on the ruthless monster Amazon ...the monopolistic ... the cancerous destroyer of this country's economic stability ... the leach upon the sensibilities of the consumer ... the company that abuses it workers ... wounding their dignity and health with demands approaching that of slavery. The encouragement and realization of new local business ventures brings energy and productivity to our local economy, thereby making us less vulnerable to the collapse of the monolithic infrastructures being created by corporate monsters.
So One Spark could be said to have generated an optimism about doing something positive ... creating something instead of assuming that only "others" create and innovate. Any eventual success ... any project eventually realized begins with a spark of insight ... a glimpse of a possibility. One Spark promotes a mood of cultivating that initial idea ... that seed, so that it grows to full operation ... to production of something solid and profitable.
I've always been concerned about a possible drift of One Spark toward a general "festival" -- thereby losing its focus on the fundamental goal of encouraging the creation of solid and viable business ventures. Those venues in the core city who would have One Spark every six months simply because it generated revenue for their businesses forget that the survival of One Spark depends on its ability to actually encourage, discover, and fund solid success of businesses.
Having One Spark too frequently, while giving temporary revenue benefits to the local core businesses, might eventually destroy the event because the high frequency of it does not allow enough time for potential innovators to recover ... to gain or accumulate ideas, to cultivate them, and work them to end products for judging. Quality of entries is the goal, not quantity. Quality usually requires time.
The issue of quality over quantity ... of immediate but short term revenue gains over greater, long-term gains ... is why I've contemplated the idea of having One Spark every two years instead of every year. Would One Spark, if held every two years, become stronger, more enduring, and ultimately more successful, as a consequence of more time for recovery, to build anticipation and excitement, for work on projects, and to generate funds?
Any pleasure, if taken too often, becomes less pleasurable ... ron 2014 ;D
Ultimately, since I'm dreaming about possibilities, I would like to see the One Spark idea be targeted directly to the infill of one or two buildings in the core each year -- as a consequence of the success of a One Spark winner. In other words, if the final result of a winner is that of forming a small manufacturing facility, or a service company, or any company suitable for operation in the core, it would be great to tie the contract to the infill of a core building.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on October 10, 2014, 11:53:10 AM
Pretty hard not to side with Khan, 12% of the money he contributed actually made it to where he thought it was going. I mean, really, not that it's apparently stopping them, but what do you say to that?
I agree. And besides that, what were some of the companies being funded by Kyn? The only one I saw that was quoted in a previous article was a retail website based out of Tampa that sold organically made bridal products. Yawn.
Quote from: ronchamblin on October 11, 2014, 02:00:40 AM
Having One Spark too frequently, while giving temporary revenue benefits to the local core businesses, might eventually destroy the event because the high frequency of it does not allow enough time for potential innovators to recover ... to gain or accumulate ideas, to cultivate them, and work them to end products for judging. Quality of entries is the goal, not quantity. Quality usually requires time.
The issue of quality over quantity ... of immediate but short term revenue gains over greater, long-term gains ... is why I've contemplated the idea of having One Spark every two years instead of every year. Would One Spark, if held every two years, become stronger, more enduring, and ultimately more successful, as a consequence of more time for recovery, to build anticipation and excitement, for work on projects, and to generate funds?
I don't see the harm in an annual event. I also don't see how anything changes for the better by having it bi-annually. What would be damaging is if the fallout between this group and Khan continues to play out in public, thus ruining their credibility in the process. That, in turn, will ultimately result in less creators participating.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 11, 2014, 08:15:22 AM
Quote from: ronchamblin on October 11, 2014, 02:00:40 AM
Having One Spark too frequently, while giving temporary revenue benefits to the local core businesses, might eventually destroy the event because the high frequency of it does not allow enough time for potential innovators to recover ... to gain or accumulate ideas, to cultivate them, and work them to end products for judging. Quality of entries is the goal, not quantity. Quality usually requires time.
The issue of quality over quantity ... of immediate but short term revenue gains over greater, long-term gains ... is why I've contemplated the idea of having One Spark every two years instead of every year. Would One Spark, if held every two years, become stronger, more enduring, and ultimately more successful, as a consequence of more time for recovery, to build anticipation and excitement, for work on projects, and to generate funds?
I don't see the harm in an annual event. I also don't see how anything changes for the better by having it bi-annually. What would be damaging is if the fallout between this group and Khan continues to play out in public, thus ruining their credibility in the process. That, in turn, will ultimately result in less creators participating.
Of course, every aspect, input, or policy affects positively or negatively the quality an event achieves over time. I agree that a possible awkward fallout could temporarily weaken the One Spark concept. However, if the significant entities controlling it convey to the public a renewed focus on the original purpose of One Spark, then even with the "learning experience" -- the potential damage as a consequence of misunderstandings and error -- from the first two events will be only temporary setbacks to what could eventually become a very positive impact on the city. The assurance of focus on the original purpose, along with an open integrity of One Spark finances, should encourage creators to act with positive energy in the event.
Quote from: Bridges on October 10, 2014, 12:38:48 PM
Sides don't have to be taken. Which is why it is weird that some of this is playing out in public.
What should be the lesson in all this is that KYN had all their eggs in one basket. They should have been developing other financing and funding channels. Funds and those that supply them fall through all the time. Important to have multiple plans for all kinds of situations.
It's just a business.
+100
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on October 10, 2014, 11:53:10 AM
Pretty hard not to side with Khan, 12% of the money he contributed actually made it to where he thought it was going. I mean, really, not that it's apparently stopping them, but what do you say to that?
The results are clearly not good, but I think the 12% is misleading. KYN provided space, supplies (printers and such) as well as mentoring to each of the creators. I think that money shows up as KYN expenses but they were really incubator costs that could be spread to each of the business ventures.
So you're putting 100% of the blame of this fallout on Elton? I'm not sure that's fair either.
Interesting response. ???
It's changed three times as I've been typing this post but this is all I meant:
With our limited outside knowledge of what actually went down, I believe things aren't as black and white as assumptions being made on the internet.
Just perhaps neither guy is an asshole. If they truly shared a bank account, Khan's guy (the guy Khan let go) knew of how the money was being spent. Perhaps, upon further internal oversight, Khan didn't approve and decided to part ways with him and what he deemed as unsustainable investments.
All speculation and assumptions of course...(just like everybody else's opinion in this discussion) but shit happens sometimes. In such a scenario, neither party is the bad guy. You just part ways and move on.
QuoteThe office furnishings and equipment and all of the other things of value will be distributed amongst the principals of KYN, and the will probably have already paid for their leased spaces in advance, and will keep the option to occupy the space or to rent it out to a subleasor.
FYI, assets and cash leftover when a non-profit closes it's doors can be sold to pay debts and can be given to another non-profit but not distributed to the directors nor to a for profit. I believe you will find there are severe tax penalties otherwise. They can be and most likely will be donated to another non-profit with a similar mission.
Though just my opinion, it does appear that the principals of KYN took advantage of the situation and were not good stewards of the funds they were charged with distributing. From personal experience with a non-profit that had tens of thousands taken from it, it is very difficult to get it determined as a prosecutable crime and so Khan has pulled his backing and KYN is gone. That seems to be the end of the story. While looking at KYN's 990's may be interesting, what happened internally between KYN and Stache/ Khan is Khan's business more then anything else and has no bearing on what happens next except when it comes to how he spends or donates his funds in the future.
One Spark or rather what happens with One Spark next is not dependent upon KYN's demise nor the reasons for it. Of course, people will make it part of the equation but it should not be. One Spark, whether it is well run or not, needs to be looked at independently.
Quote from: stephendare on October 11, 2014, 10:54:10 AM
btw, keep in mind, this is what most of the 40-60 year olds are hearing about this issue: The Times Union version:
QuoteShad Khan blasts One Spark-related group, saying officials enriched themselves with his money while startups got only 12%
Posted: October 9, 2014 - 8:56am | Updated: October 9, 2014 - 5:31pm
By Drew Dixon
Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan says he was short-changed when it came to his investment in a business group associated with One Spark, Jacksonville's crowdfunding festival.
Two days after Khan announced he was breaking financial ties with the group known as KYN, spokesman Jim Woodcock said Khan was not happy his $1.1 million in capital investment was not being allocated to the startup businesses as he intended....
Its interesting to keep in mind that this view has also been aired on NPR Jacksonville, by Drew Dixon's wife, Melissa Ross, during her morning call in show.
Its certainly not akin to the much fairer picture of things that we are fleshing out here.
The owner of the football team in Jville probably has a lot of cachet compared to a successful artsy festival group with the larger share of the voters, I think.
In all fairness, the T-U did indicate the relationship between Melissa Ross and Drew Dixon.
Quote from: stephendare on October 11, 2014, 10:33:28 AM
I just am not comfortable making a judgement about Elton, because he hasn't taken the opportunity to adequately explain himself, and I would like to reserve judgement until that happens, so Im a little sensitive about being put into a position where I'm 'blaming' him for anything.
Well good thing I didn't put you in that position. I just asked an innocent question in order for you to provide better clarification because some of the previous post read a different way. Thanks for providing that clarification.
Quote from: strider on October 11, 2014, 10:39:48 AM
QuoteThe office furnishings and equipment and all of the other things of value will be distributed amongst the principals of KYN, and the will probably have already paid for their leased spaces in advance, and will keep the option to occupy the space or to rent it out to a subleasor.
FYI, assets and cash leftover when a non-profit closes it's doors can be sold to pay debts and can be given to another non-profit but not distributed to the directors nor to a for profit. I believe you will find there are severe tax penalties otherwise. They can be and most likely will be donated to another non-profit with a similar mission.
Though just my opinion, it does appear that the principals of KYN took advantage of the situation and were not good stewards of the funds they were charged with distributing. From personal experience with a non-profit that had tens of thousands taken from it, it is very difficult to get it determined as a prosecutable crime and so Khan has pulled his backing and KYN is gone. That seems to be the end of the story. While looking at KYN's 990's may be interesting, what happened internally between KYN and Stache/ Khan is Khan's business more then anything else and has no bearing on what happens next except when it comes to how he spends or donates his funds in the future.
One Spark or rather what happens with One Spark next is not dependent upon KYN's demise nor the reasons for it. Of course, people will make it part of the equation but it should not be. One Spark, whether it is well run or not, needs to be looked at independently.
I could easily be mistaken...but I didn't know KYN was a nonprofit. How exactly do they own equity in the businesses they invest in as a nonprofit then? Or is it Shad Khan who owns the equity stake and KYN was just a vehicle for his investment...which imo makes his outrage over the percentage going to fund startups a bit of a crock.
One of the most remarkable facts coming out so far it that 2 very astute business men, Khan and Rummell, did not insist on audited financial statements; that's Business 101.
I know someone who went through the KYN "process" or should I say wringer. For 30k in investment , next to zero true business development advice, and disparaging treatment, he/she/it surrendered more than a quarter of their corporations shares. It's one of many reasons why I did not take my game development company through them and decided to close up shop.
Incubators in the south east have very few real successes to point out. Off the top of my head I can think of only Atlanta's ATDC (and their SAvannah Office, great folks there) which has a fairly targeted audience. Whereas joystick labs shuttered , Kyn and several other digital media incubators didn't even make it the 5 year mark. A lot of that is in part is an unfair almost predatory amount of stake that these things require in a startup. 30k barely buys toilet paper, pizza , beer and a single cowork spot to be shared across five developers for a year, let alone carry a group of developers through prototype development.
In a technology driven economy like Jacksonville where if you can spell ".net" or "SQL" you can land an entry level developer position making 45-60k, you're better off taking the entry-level job and building on nights and weekends. The ones taking advantage of these 30k incubators or typically school kids, that just don't know better.
I think thats why I have such a love affair with the idea of coworkjax and desperately hope they open a beaches office. They provide a wonderful environment, lots of amenities and excellent social networking and advice for a fair price. Places like these provide a better chance for a startup to get somewhere then a KYN type incubator.
and to pull this all together, OneSpark is great for the inner city and for the greater jacksonville environ. However it's not too swell for the Creators, most the folks that do well are already doing well going into the festival. I know of at least three project that went in and came out negative for the experience. I believe the processes can be fixed and eagerly look forward to see how 2015 is going to be done.
@tyrsblade, do you know if any of the businesses that worked with KYN would be willing to speak about their experience?
Quote from: Glenn OSteen on October 11, 2014, 12:07:28 PM
One of the most remarkable facts coming out so far it that 2 very astute business men, Khan and Rummell, did not insist on audited financial statements; that's Business 101.
Not that remarkable.... The amount of the investment wouldn't seem to be an issue here and definitely not an amount large enough to even warrant a full-blown audit. As this has been fleshing itself out over social media, metro-jax and other news sites, it appears more about a lack of production.
If there had been 40 of the 448 applicants in some stage of assistance, a number 1/2 of the size than the 20% success rate KYN is touting, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 11, 2014, 03:19:37 PM
Quote from: Glenn OSteen on October 11, 2014, 12:07:28 PM
One of the most remarkable facts coming out so far it that 2 very astute business men, Khan and Rummell, did not insist on audited financial statements; that's Business 101.
Not that remarkable.... The amount of the investment wouldn't seem to be an issue here and definitely not an amount large enough to even warrant a full-blown audit. As this has been fleshing itself out over social media, metro-jax and other news sites, it appears more about a lack of production.
If there had been 40 of the 448 applicants in some stage of assistance, a number 1/2 of the size than the 20% success rate KYN is touting, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
Agreed.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 11, 2014, 03:19:37 PM
Quote from: Glenn OSteen on October 11, 2014, 12:07:28 PM
One of the most remarkable facts coming out so far it that 2 very astute business men, Khan and Rummell, did not insist on audited financial statements; that's Business 101.
Not that remarkable.... The amount of the investment wouldn't seem to be an issue here and definitely not an amount large enough to even warrant a full-blown audit. As this has been fleshing itself out over social media, metro-jax and other news sites, it appears more about a lack of production.
If there had been 40 of the 448 applicants in some stage of assistance, a number 1/2 of the size than the 20% success rate KYN is touting, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
You're not the first person to say this, so I'm confused as to why they accepting more applicants would make them more successful? That would have just be more investment dollars spread out over weaker business startups. Khan would probably have gotten even less return on his investment.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 11, 2014, 04:04:38 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 11, 2014, 03:19:37 PM
Quote from: Glenn OSteen on October 11, 2014, 12:07:28 PM
One of the most remarkable facts coming out so far it that 2 very astute business men, Khan and Rummell, did not insist on audited financial statements; that's Business 101.
Not that remarkable.... The amount of the investment wouldn't seem to be an issue here and definitely not an amount large enough to even warrant a full-blown audit. As this has been fleshing itself out over social media, metro-jax and other news sites, it appears more about a lack of production.
If there had been 40 of the 448 applicants in some stage of assistance, a number 1/2 of the size than the 20% success rate KYN is touting, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
You're not the first person to say this, so I'm confused as to why they accepting more applicants would make them more successful? That would have just be more investment dollars spread out over weaker business startups. Khan would probably have gotten even less return on his investment.
This is probably a large part of it, as well. Not only were there only 4 startups being groomed, were they 4 truly strong startups? Someone in this thread or another called Jacksonville's startup scene internationally notable. That could not possibly be further from the truth. If you have a truly good idea and are really working it, finding a team, and really really trying to make it go somewhere, you're not doing so in Jacksonville.
In terms of "ROI", the question here is not on the ROI driven by the startups themselves, but the amount of overhead. There really was no economy of scale with only 4 startups, so as a percentage of dollars coming from Khan, likely a much smaller % would have gone to "overhead" had there been more startups, but then if those startups were all a waste of time, perhaps there would have been an even larger "loss" on his investment.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 11, 2014, 04:04:38 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 11, 2014, 03:19:37 PM
Quote from: Glenn OSteen on October 11, 2014, 12:07:28 PM
One of the most remarkable facts coming out so far it that 2 very astute business men, Khan and Rummell, did not insist on audited financial statements; that's Business 101.
Not that remarkable.... The amount of the investment wouldn't seem to be an issue here and definitely not an amount large enough to even warrant a full-blown audit. As this has been fleshing itself out over social media, metro-jax and other news sites, it appears more about a lack of production.
If there had been 40 of the 448 applicants in some stage of assistance, a number 1/2 of the size than the 20% success rate KYN is touting, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
You're not the first person to say this, so I'm confused as to why they accepting more applicants would make them more successful? That would have just be more investment dollars spread out over weaker business startups. Khan would probably have gotten even less return on his investment.
It wouldn't necessarily make them more successful, but their 'success rate opportunity' increases with every potential startup they represent.
Simply, I would be able to justify a 6 figure salary and high-expenditure if I spread my resources and experience across a multitude of potential companies - the success of these companies is ultimately up to them, I'm just there as a pre-paid consultant, so-to-speak.
How can I justify anything when I pour all of my resources into only 5 of 450 applicants and only 1 of those appears to be poised for any real success?
Speaking in generalities, you can only make a sale if you make a call/knock on a door. KYN decided not to accept the majority of applicants, cherry pick so to speak, and after a cursory review, they weren't performing up to the expectations of their main financier. Without any proof of real success, their funding was cut.
To me, it's a fairly simple matter.
tl;dr - Here's some money to do something. [1 year passes] Ok, show me what you guys do? Not good enough, no more money, thanks for playing.
Edit:
And in the grand scheme of things, in this case, I don't believe the salaries of the primaries are even the issue, it was their lack of production. I personally don't believe it would have mattered if the balance sheets showed 100k/yr or 25k/yr - if the performance isn't there, then it's still a waste of money.
Trust. Credibility. Authenticity. These a traits that tend to trickle from the top of an organization based on the leadership traits of the ones at top. Jacksonville deserves these traits.
I've had serious concerns about One Spark since the results from 2013 and would like to share them here since this is the first public forum I've found willing to raise questions about the situational reality versus the polished mainstream press releases. I enjoy One Spark for what it is and hope it continues but I don't feel like misleading the public when the available facts seem to be different. Alas, we're in a culture of sound bites so I'll try to keep these facts brief.
The beginning
Fact
Jacksonville planning department begins notices a "spark" shape between downtown art institutions for planning what would later become the spark district grant. The name stuck and BeOneSpark releases a promotional video (perhaps commissioned for district release) but doesn't mention a festival at all. The leadership has a way with words that have little tangible meaning: http://vimeo.com/24464667 This was the beonespark website for almost a year until the Epoch Festival outlined what would later become the One*Festival. http://members.jacksonville.com/entertainment/arts/2012-03-13/story/project-aims-draw-big-crowds-downtown-jacksonville
"Spin"
"This really started on a napkin at Panera one day with myself and a few friends," said One Spark founder Elton Rivas. http://downtownjax.firstcoastnews.com/news/news/97573-one-spark-lights-jacksonville
Questions
Did that napkin happen to have the newspaper article about the Epoch festival? What's wrong with telling the truth about the beginning - especially if sharing ideas is the point of the festival. Why not share honest ideas?
2013 Results
The final results from One Spark 2013 can be seen here: http://beonespark.tumblr.com/post/48543645500/one-spark-2013-closing-ceremony-key-stats
They are separated by categories that a) didn't match the categories that the creator initially signed up for - and are currently listed under on the website and b) are different from the categories that One Spark reported them under in the first day biggest movers:http://beonespark.tumblr.com/post/48308447411/one-sparks-first-day-largest-percentage-movers
For instance, the Technology category has final results that include 3 projects from 3 different categories (1x art, 1x science, 1x tech). The music category has a winner that doesn't even make noise!
The Issue
While I initially thought this was petty, I believe it epitomizes the larger issues of facts being "rearranged" for the benefit of One* et. al but at the expense of the truth. So REAL Top 3 winners in tech don't bring in that much $ relative to the other categories - at least it sets reasonable expectations for people entering in 2014 (and worldwide).
"Crowd"funding the "crowd"funding festival
Just 2 things about this that I noticed whatching their Rocket Hub campaign:http://www.rockethub.com/projects/42249-one-spark-berlin-2014
1) They were $5,000 away from their Berlin goal when I noticed at the time KYN as a backer and it go over. I was pointing it out to someone in the office when I told him to pull it up and KYN was off as a backer. Just an fyi.
2) One Spark's own kickstarter may have had a similar infusion when it was announced on the 18th that they were going to get a big backer and then their total more than doubled the next day:http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/onespark/one-spark-2013/
Why delete KYN from the list? Was this so Khan wouldn't see his money going directly to One* - as Rummell denied? okay, and realistic, if you have to put your "own" money behind your idea. Frankly, that's how real startups work.
Speaking of Crowdfund
Last year up to $3.25 million was available to creators. These were from VC firms - including stache fund - and that number leveraged extensively to help hype the event and draw creators. Now, if I'm reading this correctly, of that $3.25 million, Elton started his own incubator after the event that cost $1.1 million and of that $1.1 million only like $135,000 cash went to these projects? Not only did more than a 1/3 of the VC money go to Elton's interests but less than 15% of that got to actual creators? I don't believe this is criminal but I do believe this is a serious conflict of interest.
Elton
Since the beginning Elton has had a smooth grasp of marketing/pr speak. But what are the facts? I heard he was selling pipes and faucets before starting Zero Confines, but I don't see any actual clients or testimonials for this "startup" accelerator. I know that he and Rummell started CoWork Jax together, but isn't that a way to leverage the community for your own profit? What did Elton actually do besides hype up an office into a timeshare business model? Is that worthy of calling yourself a serial entrepreneur? Has he started any successful companies? Is it safe to say that the same community exploitation is the basis of One Spark? More importantly, why was One * trusted with so many city resources when more established and credible organizations aren't supported? Is Jacksonville leadership really that susceptible so snake oil salesmen?
The Ugly Truth will Set you Free
One * calls itself the World's Crowdfunding festival. Why? With less than 5,000 visitors (which is small enough to be counted exactly - especially at only 1 venue) and 639 unique voters in Germany, why should this festival be considered bigger than Jacksonville? The reality is it isn't, but the delusions of grandeur coming from the top say otherwise. As an event it was awesome - and that's because of Jacksonville. We made it awesome. It may have taken hype to get us off the couch - along with several favors from public officials - but it happened. And it will happen again. It would just being doing everyone a favor if they could be more honest and transparent about what the facts are. It's actual better if it's Jacksonville's festival instead of another organization pretending that Jacksonville isn't good enough and trying to move away. (WATCH the One Spark Berlin promo - said $4 million distributed - instead of up to - and it never mentioned Jacksonville - only USA One Spark 2014)
TL:DR/Soundbite
Serial Entrepreneur could turn the festival formerly known as One Spark - The World's Crowdfunding Festival - into One Spark - Jacksonville's Crowd Exploitation Festival if Khan blindly continues his support.
Quote from: TheCat on October 11, 2014, 03:15:13 PM
@tyrsblade, do you know if any of the businesses that worked with KYN would be willing to speak about their experience?
I've emailed both my contacts. will Keep you updated.
One has replied yes. send me a PM and I'll send his details over. The other is checking with his lawyer.
As one of the people who applied and did not get in, I am very interested to hear about what went down.
I reiterate and agree, this is not an easy place to have a startup in. For a tertiary market, there are some pretty snobby people strutting about the scene. I am not a college degree holder, but I am starting my first business just like they are, and the scene can really come across like a circle jerk for programmers.
(no offense meant personally, its just how some of the networking events come across)
I'm also waiting to hear from some start ups helped by KYN or Stache Investments outside of KYN, that had their funding stopped immediately. There has been lots of talks about the many affected but haven't heard from them. It has also said 'there is much more to come" from people who lost funding from Stache Investments but no one has stepped up to talk. A reporter from T.U., Drew Dixon has been begging to hear from any of these people and no response. The fact the only two assisted w/ 35K and supposedly $115 K worth of support are from Tampa, FL and Arizona. All previous releases has been that "Stache Investments" were investing for Jacksonville commerce. Jacksonville business. All mentions of Khan's involvement was for Jacksonville Business and commerce. Why the only two this year which supposedly had cash and assistance of $115 K were NOT related any way to Jacksonville? If you check the list of creators/entrants these two only gathering a little less than $250. each at festival and were way down the list. Why these two? Anyone?
On Bloomberg Business:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-09/startup-accelerator-goes-bust-after-jaguars-owner-pulls-funding (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-09/startup-accelerator-goes-bust-after-jaguars-owner-pulls-funding)
I know personally one of the creators from KYN's first class that has spoken nothing but love for the experience. He's still in business and doing fairly well as far as I can tell. But I don't know any true details.
One Spark has always had sort of questionable ways of operating, as far as the festival itself goes. It's very confusing and it seemed to be constantly changing. I took that to be growing pains, and I still WANT to believe that's all that these problems are. But with KYN shuttered and the financials appearing to the layperson to be pretty gruesomely proportioned, even as an ardent supporter I have to worry about One Spark paying the ultimate price. And a worse side-effect; the cynical tone of Jacksonville's creative community becoming louder than it has been since the first One Spark festival hit downtown. I hate that creativity has such an underdog story in this town, and if this ends up being one step forward, two steps back it'll be heartbreaking. I hate listening to people blast one of the best efforts this town has seen in years to forward the goal of a city that's a creative destination. Even though the criticism appears deserved.
I guess I'm emotionally involved, so take it for what it's worth, but this feels like a hell of a blow.
Deservedly or not, it appears the two 'fall guys' in this episode will be both the guy spending the money and the one approving the spending.
Ironically (or not) neither is in the position they were in before all of this broke.
Quote from: stephendare on October 13, 2014, 01:04:44 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 13, 2014, 01:02:29 PM
Deservedly or not, it appears the two 'fall guys' in this episode will be both the guy spending the money and the one approving the spending.
Ironically (or not) neither is in the position they were in before all of this broke.
since the problem is how the money was spent, i think, yeah....they ones who handled the money are probably going to be the ones held responsible. ;)
As I said before, I don't think how it was spent or how much of it was spent where. I'm still of the opinion that if there were 40 companies under their umbrella - no matter HOW they were performing - KYN would still be around.
The show of effort wasn't there.
Quote from: stephendare on October 13, 2014, 01:54:36 PM
you mean other than the direct statement of the actual person who cancelled the underwriting?
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 13, 2014, 01:48:42 PM
[
As I said before, I don't think how it was spent or how much of it was spent where. I'm still of the opinion that if there were 40 companies under their umbrella - no matter HOW they were performing - KYN would still be around.
The show of effort wasn't there.
Cute.
Roger Williams the owner of the Harbinger Sign Co said that KYN owes his business $15,000 for sign work.
http://members.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-10-13/story/jacksonville-business-owner-says-he-s-still-owed-money-one-spark-related?utm_source=cx
Well this is going well...,
Quote from: I-10east on October 13, 2014, 05:17:13 PM
Roger Williams the owner of the Harbinger Sign Co said that KYN owes his business $15,000 for sign work.
http://members.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-10-13/story/jacksonville-business-owner-says-he-s-still-owed-money-one-spark-related?utm_source=cx
Okay, this just clinches it for me. That is outrageous -- you're not paying local businesses for services rendered !?! What !?!
Quote from: Andy on October 13, 2014, 12:33:05 PM
I know personally one of the creators from KYN's first class that has spoken nothing but love for the experience. He's still in business and doing fairly well as far as I can tell. But I don't know any true details.
One Spark has always had sort of questionable ways of operating, as far as the festival itself goes. It's very confusing and it seemed to be constantly changing. I took that to be growing pains, and I still WANT to believe that's all that these problems are. But with KYN shuttered and the financials appearing to the layperson to be pretty gruesomely proportioned, even as an ardent supporter I have to worry about One Spark paying the ultimate price. And a worse side-effect; the cynical tone of Jacksonville's creative community becoming louder than it has been since the first One Spark festival hit downtown. I hate that creativity has such an underdog story in this town, and if this ends up being one step forward, two steps back it'll be heartbreaking. I hate listening to people blast one of the best efforts this town has seen in years to forward the goal of a city that's a creative destination. Even though the criticism appears deserved.
I guess I'm emotionally involved, so take it for what it's worth, but this feels like a hell of a blow.
Sad post. Potentially big blow to Jax.
QuoteDispleasure with management led Khan to bail from KYN, which invested in six companies, including a wedding planning website and an app that lets motorists pay for parking via their smartphones.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-09/startup-accelerator-goes-bust-after-jaguars-owner-pulls-funding
So was the app for mobile parking payments specific/local to Jax? The reason I ask is because there are already apps for that (I would imagine the same for wedding planning, but I know nothing of THAT realm).
I don't know anything about app development, but it would seem that rather than re-inventing the wheel or copying already applied solutions and not necessarily taking them any steps further, one could use the existing solutions and apply them specifically to Jax issues or Jax residents? The amount of people I know who bang out apps in their spare time is ridiculous, and some become hits. And those are people already gainfully employed either by a startup or a big name tech firm. Or even people who know applicable code for building an app for fun. One of my friends in his spare time built an app that talks to the Phillips home lighting system, called "Hue"
http://www2.meethue.com/en-us/what-is-hue/the-system/
http://www.developers.meethue.com/
Like, honestly, that's the competition. I have another friend whose last name is a big name router company, and who's business partner has a last name of someone who started what was once the #1 PC security system, and the two of them created an app and are shaking hands with Obama and guest lecturing at Cornell.
I'm really hoping there's not too much fallout over this, but honestly, from reading people's comments and reports about One Spark and KYN, it doesn't sound like there was THAT MUCH there to begin with. Jax needs a couple of heavy hitting success stories before it makes radar screens, I think.
BTW, super interesting read on LA's tech scene:
http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/08/theres-something-going-on-in-l-a/
To address simms above, the last two companies KYN funded caused much of an alarm. One of the mission statements and words from One Spark is Khan was investing to assist with commerce in Jacksonville, FL. The wedding planner who only had a website is in Tampa and the parking app guys are in Arizona. these are the two they picked out of the almost 600. It's very mystifying why? Neither had ties to Jacksonville and did nothing for commerce in Jacksonville. Again, if you look at the information posted upthread about One Spark, you will see both of these companies way down the list, each earning less than $300.. Why KYN fiercely supported these two in the last year is what many are upset about.
Quote from: Jax native on October 13, 2014, 10:31:39 PM
To address simms above, the last two companies KYN funded caused much of an alarm. One of the mission statements and words from One Spark is Khan was investing to assist with commerce in Jacksonville, FL. The wedding planner who only had a website is in Tampa and the parking app guys are in Arizona. these are the two they picked out of the almost 600. It's very mystifying why? Neither had ties to Jacksonville and did nothing for commerce in Jacksonville. Again, if you look at the information posted upthread about One Spark, you will see both of these companies way down the list, each earning less than $300.. Why KYN fiercely supported these two in the last year is what many are upset about.
One Spark is a crowdfunding festival. It's essentially a popularity contest. Kyn
is was an accelerator for new businesses. The way businesses/creators receive funding in each is completely different. Just because you received a lot of votes at One Spark and earned the larger chunks of the crowdfunding pie doesn't mean you're going to get backed by private capital from Kyn. Kyn had their own application process for evaluating which start-ups they chose to fund. And this makes perfect sense. Just because an idea is popular at One Spark doesn't mean it's a viable business model/team worthy of substantial investment . Frankly, if I'm throwing a million dollars into these high risk, high reward investments through Kyn I don't care where the start-ups are from and I want to be in the next Uber, Airbnb or Theranos whether there from Jax, Tuscon or Timbuktu.
I'm not endorsing/criticizing the the start-ups that were chosen by Kyn, merely pointing out that Kyn and One Spark are two different entities with different selection criteria. The real issue here is that some of the principals involved in Kyn (and their alleged poor financial management) are also involved in One Spark.
I don't think that any of the apps (or business) need to be specific to Jacksonville (i.e. a Jacksonville only parking app).
What I feel is important - if the aim was to help Jacksonville business - is that the business impact (jobs, taxes, investment) are felt in Jacksonville.
If you have a Jax company that has a product which is successfull in the whole USA or even better all over the world than this would be great.
Conversely, if you could get start-up / companies / investors from other countries to set up their US subsidiary in Jax, fine, too.
Quote from: Jax native on October 13, 2014, 10:31:39 PM
To address simms above, the last two companies KYN funded caused much of an alarm. One of the mission statements and words from One Spark is Khan was investing to assist with commerce in Jacksonville, FL. The wedding planner who only had a website is in Tampa and the parking app guys are in Arizona. these are the two they picked out of the almost 600. It's very mystifying why? Neither had ties to Jacksonville and did nothing for commerce in Jacksonville. Again, if you look at the information posted upthread about One Spark, you will see both of these companies way down the list, each earning less than $300.. Why KYN fiercely supported these two in the last year is what many are upset about.
The way KYN was represented to me was simply as a business accelerator, not specific to Jax. I had several friends around the country who considered applying. KYN only said that they tried to promote Jax to those companies and find ways to incentivize companies who wished to stay/setup in Jax at the conclusion of the program. Another one of my friends lived in DC, was accepted to Y Combinator in SF and then moved to NYC afterward to continue to grow/launch his business. Another friend whose company was in Gainesville, was accepted to some Kaufmann program in Kansas City for 6 months, and then moved his business to SF after it was over. These business accelerators are just part of a global ecosystem...Jax having one that was striving to enter into this ecosystem was awesome. But that means it couldn't be a "For Jax, By Jax" proposition.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 14, 2014, 06:27:43 AM
These business accelerators are just part of a global ecosystem...Jax having one that was striving to enter into this ecosystem was awesome. But that means it couldn't be a "For Jax, By Jax" proposition.
I'd say that's incorrect. This was a totally dependent startup. Wasn't it? Prudence, it seems to me, would have demanded a "For Jax, By Jax" start. As I think I said at the beginning of this news,
be attentive to Shad. To hell with whether his lieutenant signed off on this, what gives Shad the P.R. benefit he was likely seeking *and* the local impact he wants to brag about ???
Why would you try and operate from the perspective of a national norm when Shad has already made it clear what his focus is? Demonstrate FIRST your ability to try and operate for the benefit of Jacksonville startups and then try and grow into more of a national norm. At the very least, have two operational categories -- Jax and non-Jax -- and make sure 50.1 percent of any assistance goes to the Jax group.
That's a true point - I never think of Jax on a national/international stage, so it felt logical to me for KYN to focus on Jacksonville only, but then you have to wonder, KYN, a small "startup" accelerator itself trying to enter the world of Y Combinator and others and it received funding for and only backed (inefficiently) 6 companies? I guess start small? But accelerators do rely a tremendous amount on volume...
Definitely not a good thing that KYN and OneSpark share a CEO per se.
Quote from: Andy on October 13, 2014, 12:33:05 PM
One Spark has always had sort of questionable ways of operating, as far as the festival itself goes. It's very confusing and it seemed to be constantly changing. I took that to be growing pains, and I still WANT to believe that's all that these problems are. But with KYN shuttered and the financials appearing to the layperson to be pretty gruesomely proportioned, even as an ardent supporter I have to worry about One Spark paying the ultimate price. And a worse side-effect; the cynical tone of Jacksonville's creative community becoming louder than it has been since the first One Spark festival hit downtown. I hate that creativity has such an underdog story in this town, and if this ends up being one step forward, two steps back it'll be heartbreaking. I hate listening to people blast one of the best efforts this town has seen in years to forward the goal of a city that's a creative destination. Even though the criticism appears deserved.
I agree and believe this year will be like a hangover from a manic high. No "up to $3.5 million" support, no international festival coming up and frankly, no real success for creators. An awesome ride filled with delusions of grandeur and, sadly, disillusionment of the creators this festival was "for".
"Out, out, brief spark! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and is heard no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
Still blaming Shad, Stephen? SMDH.
Go 'head, Stephen. Let the envy (and projection) flow as the boomerangs continue to smack, smack, smack.