Metro Jacksonville

Community => News => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on September 29, 2014, 03:00:03 AM

Title: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on September 29, 2014, 03:00:03 AM
The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-7Rs9vL4/0/O/scoreboards_Header_Jaguars.jpg)

Take a deep breath. The new scoreboards at Everbank Field are cool and no one is taking them down. But, maybe, we can talk about the money behind the scoreboards (and a little about the stadium) without anybody feeling threatened or vindicated.


Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-sep-the-100-million-jacksonville-jaguars-scoreboards
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: vicupstate on September 29, 2014, 04:57:04 AM
Informative, relevant and largely free of editorial commentary. MJ at it's best.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Rob68 on September 29, 2014, 07:23:22 AM
Everyone screams funding source bullshit..its public city funds that shouldnt be used for the benifit of a few wealthy enough to go to games and ignorant enough to waist their money on such things...this city deserves to rot in its own ignorance...funding is funding and our leaders intend on keeping as much as they can for themselves and the games they play at every day..nasty roads..grass everywhere..lots of social programs flat broke and our leaders decide what a great idea a massive tv would be....BULL SHIT...IT ALL BULL SHIT..how does this tv help the general public...shad is swimming in cash and he wants us to pay for his play..you people are lost and deserve to suffer with what you cause.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Noone on September 29, 2014, 07:48:23 AM
Excellent article.

Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: FSBA on September 29, 2014, 08:14:09 AM
This highlights one of the main things I see people misunderstand about the money the city used to pay for the scoreboards. People keep acting like the city just had $50 million lying around before spending it on the stadium. This was just another charge on the city's ever growing credit card bill.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: mbwright on September 29, 2014, 08:20:28 AM
They should not have used the bond to lockup future revenue.  If Kahn wanted a TV, he could buy his own.  How will there be enough funds to maintain and improve the baseball grounds, and the arena?  More bonds?  They is a limit to this borrowing.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Lunican on September 29, 2014, 08:27:22 AM
Great article and graphic.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: JeffreyS on September 29, 2014, 09:30:02 AM
If this was just a sober conversation about the money the article would've been written before the money was spent.  i'm on board with so many of our criticisms about spending money Outerbelt way, 711 tax breaks they don't ask for and incentives to companies who never live up to the employment numbers they claimed.

This just seems like I'm going to whine because it's not the Q OL investment that I wanted. I would personally appreciate it if you guys would drop the condescending hold your breath and react like I'm telling you to react bit. People on metro Jacksonville have proven over the years they're able to have conversations about tough subjects.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Brysynner on September 29, 2014, 09:37:31 AM
So let me get this straight. The city gets 15 mil/year from the bed tax. Roughly 8 mil/year is spent on EverBank Field. And the remaining 7 mil gets spent on various tourist attractions (museums, beaches, zoos, etc.) I'd say that isn't a bad deal overall.

How much revenue is brought in by the 9-10 home games a year, the FL/GA game and the Gator Bowl? If that number is more than 8 million doesn't this offset somewhere?
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: pierre on September 29, 2014, 10:02:43 AM
Quote from: mbwright on September 29, 2014, 08:20:28 AM
They should not have used the bond to lockup future revenue.  If Kahn wanted a TV, he could buy his own.  How will there be enough funds to maintain and improve the baseball grounds, and the arena?  More bonds?  They is a limit to this borrowing.

Had Khan paid for the boards himself, would the other tenants pay him for using the boards during events like the Gator Bowl, Fla/Ga game, Monster Jam, Country Music Fest, etc?
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: I-10east on September 29, 2014, 10:08:36 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Neverending_Story#mediaviewer/File:TheNeverendingStory1997Edition.jpg

Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: RattlerGator on September 29, 2014, 10:17:26 AM
The Florida-Georgia game is "infamous" ???

To what minute sector of Jacksonville is the Florida-Georgia game infamous? Oh, that's right; forgot the website I was reading. You're supposedly trying to have a sober conversation and you're describing one of the signature events in the city as "wicked; abominable; well known for some bad quality or deed."

Quite telling, but not quite sober.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: CityLife on September 29, 2014, 10:50:19 AM
Can someone with financing and bond knowledge speak to the long term assumptions of the deal. I would imagine that with inflation, the $3-3.5 million a year won't be nearly as large of a proportion of the bed tax revenue during years 15-30 of the bond. I'd be curious to know what the actual cost will be in 30 years with inflation factored in.

Very good conversation starting piece.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on September 29, 2014, 10:58:48 AM
Thanks for the catch RattleGator! I did not mean to disparage the game with the use of the word "infamous". I was meaning to say "super, well-known."

I suppose if i thought through the word "in"-famous I would have realized that it is the opposite of "famous" in some capacity.

Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: tufsu1 on September 29, 2014, 11:07:34 AM
I especially like the final paragraph....well done Arash!
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 29, 2014, 11:28:25 AM
Quote from: JeffreyS on September 29, 2014, 09:30:02 AM
This just seems like I'm going to whine because it's not the Q OL investment that I wanted.

Jeffrey, I think that this statement pretty much sums it up for everyone.  (emphasis mine)

Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: edjax on September 29, 2014, 11:31:14 AM
Well at least we actually have something in this case for the money actually spent unlike many other items in Jax where money was thrown at a project and have nothing to show for it such as a fish restaraunt on the northside, Genovar Hall and The Shipyards.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: GatorShane on September 29, 2014, 12:04:53 PM
I am really tired of the bullshit argument that only a few wealthy people benefit from the stadium. I have tickets only because they offer a payment plan. I am by no means any where near wealthy and there are thousands of people just like me who attend the games. I am not trashing the article it was very well written, just some of the comments. People act like Khan is some sort of carpetbagger who is just here to get want he wants and then will pull up stakes and move on. He has already demonstrated that he is committed to this city. Is he making money? Sure he is , but that's what business men do. That stadium is a huge asset to this community and should be treated as such. If you add up all of the money the city has spent on that venue over the years, it pales in comparison to what other cities spend. Am I biased because I am a sports fan? Probably so! I would like to see everything  get some significant funding, the arts, education, the St. Johns river, DT development, libraries, mass transit, etc. I just wish some people in this town would stop trying to make every improvement to the stadium an elite taking from the poor issue.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on September 29, 2014, 12:13:12 PM
As an fyi, as of August 21 long term bonds have yet to be issued.

This email message was forwarded by David Decamp from the Treasury Department:


QuoteOrdinance 2013-694-E authorized the use of commercial paper for interim financing on the improvements to the stadium.  To date, we have issued $24,225,000 in commercial paper to fund a portion of these improvements.  The current tranche of commercial paper matures on August 27, 2014, but we intend on "rolling" it out during the interim financing period.  Commercial paper may be remarketed to mature every 1 – 270 days.  The currently outstanding notes are accruing interest at an extremely low rate of 0.08%.

We expect to issue additional tranches of the commercial paper as necessary and ultimately refund all of the interim financing with long-term bonds.  We will continue to monitor the debt markets for refinancing opportunities.

As you know, the debt is being repaid with the CDT ("bed tax") revenues.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Player_1 on September 29, 2014, 12:14:34 PM
In response to "Murder_Me_Rachel"

Do you really think a city that has been around for 200+ years would just fall apart without an NFL team?

And since you sound like someone who just flat out dislikes the jags (and all other sports teams in the city) I'm led to believe you have some personal vendetta against organized sports. See your quote below:

"I still dont like idea of public dollars (ANY dollars) going to pro sports, even the Armada (which has a softer place ion my heart than the Jags). Frisch is Khan, but he's got pleeeeeeeeeeeeenty of money and needs to pony up his own, or finance it himself."

Also where in Void did they say he was "the greatest thing that ever happened to Jax" ?  ???
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: spuwho on September 29, 2014, 12:32:46 PM
Some graph or sheet showing how the financing buckets work would be a good add.

It comes down to how you perceive the spend. Tactical or strategic.

Rob colorfully highlights the tactical issues COJ faces, but as the article explains, the money is targeted.

If you view the spend as strategic, then you have to measure the benefits over the useful life of what you acquire. If there are tangible, measurable items that come about over the next 20 years, then they have to be identified and explained so people can understand.

Inducements for corporates like GE Gas & Oil and Deutsche Bank can be easily quantified up front because you can see exactly what will come of it.

Investments in entertainment facilities is a riskier play, because the end results are less certain in the near term.

Overall the spend, while significant, shows a strategic view to how the area wants to approach tourism and filling hotels and that is through sports and entertainment.

The wildcard here is our local politics. We have a bad habit of collective amnesia when it comes to strategic directives and tend to bend it to near term political agendas.



Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: jaxjaguar on September 29, 2014, 01:26:57 PM
Not to mention there will be more than football fans impacted by the boards... There are several movie nights lined up which are geared towards familes (the first of which is Nov 7). The WWE, which has an enormous travelling fan base, has also expressed interest in bringing one of their biggest shows here purely because of the boards.

It's not all about the Jaguars. There are many businessmen who have also been lured into town to see what the hubbub is about. I think a few years from now this will prove to be a "no brainer" upgrade for the stadium. With the addition of the brewery to the area and the potential for the shipyards being developed, I think we're on the verge of reviving a long dead part of town.

Look to Jerry Jones fortress in Dallas to see what it's done for the area. They've had a 66% increase in event bookings since building their new stadium and it's only going up. They've also seen over $1 billion dollars in revenue from 16 events....in just a 4 month period!

Jacksonville is on a similar path with the bookings slated for next year. Expect to see many, many more events hosted next year and the following year. Remember the goal is to host over 300 events a year in the stadium. We currently host about 25-30 major events there a year now.

As much of a proponent of the other developments in Jacksonville as I am, I've seen too many projects fail, fall through and drastically change for the worse. Not just with the current administration...looking at you Friendship Fountain Park. But I think in the long run we can all agree that Friendship Fountain and the Brewing company have turned out to be better than nothing.

Let's just be happy that we have something no other city in the world has. Something that puts us on the radar for big events. Something that has people, outside of Jacksonville, talking about us in a positive manner.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Rob68 on September 29, 2014, 02:07:06 PM
If public monies are being used for private profit then the public deserves a check in the fucking mail..how about the city of jacksonville buy the jaguars and we the city actually make the money..pension problem solved. 100 million is bullshit..why are we letting one person gain so much from we the citizens and all we get is a game and a place to care for.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: edjax on September 29, 2014, 02:13:55 PM
Well for one,,the city of Jacksonville can not own an NFL team. 
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: jaxjaguar on September 29, 2014, 02:36:44 PM
As edjax said the city can't legally own the team. Also, do you expect the City to cut you a check for every project we have that you don't agree with?

The financing portion of this seems a little ridiculous, but I'm not well versed enough on major projects to speak for how they normally turn out when you factor in interest and other lending fees. Just out of curiosity does anyone know what the Total cost was, with fees and everything included, for repairing the Carling and 11 East?

Also, say we generate 1/2 of the revenue expected $500 million. That would be roughly $40 million of taxes generated from one venue in one year... I'd say that's a pretty sweet deal.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: jcjohnpaint on September 29, 2014, 04:45:17 PM
Isn't the Packers owned by Green Bay?  I know it is public/ not for profit. 
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: edjax on September 29, 2014, 04:59:10 PM
Yes the Packers are, but that type of ownership was grandfathered in and no longer allowed.  A team can now only be owned by a maximum of 32 individuals and the primary owner must own at least 30% of the team.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: coredumped on September 29, 2014, 05:10:26 PM
I don't understand how people on this forum want the city to spend money on a convention center, but not the stadium.

Don't they both:

That being said....

(http://i.imgur.com/Jlm1Yaa.gif)
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: jcjohnpaint on September 29, 2014, 06:09:08 PM
I can care less about a convention center, but I cannot understand why particular council members will turn down any funding for investment in projects like the Laura St. Trio/ Landing etc, but be totally on board with the scoreboards.  I am actually not against the scoreboards.  I know they are different pots of money, but we will pay in the end at least for maintenance.  I just am extremely confused about our leaders priorities.  There is absolutely no consistency.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: vicupstate on September 29, 2014, 06:41:05 PM
1) What are the 300 events that will be the at the stadium, beyond the ones already held there?

2) Was it necessary to have these scoreboards in order to get these additional events?

Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: I-10east on September 29, 2014, 07:10:05 PM
Sigh
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: jaxjaguar on September 29, 2014, 07:59:24 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on September 29, 2014, 06:41:05 PM
1) What are the 300 events that will be the at the stadium, beyond the ones already held there?

2) Was it necessary to have these scoreboards in order to get these additional events?

1) 300 is the goal so it'll take a little while to get there. They haven't announced anything yet since its all still in the works. After seeing the Carry Underwood concert though, it's hard to imagine several other big time artists not planning shows there. The video boards complemented the show very well. Carry even stared at them in awe while her introduction video played. Big events take time to plan though and now that some promoters and event planners have had a chance to see the boards in person and on tv, I'll bet a pretty penny they have their eyes on Jacksonville as a host to their event.

2) The WWE specifically cited the boards being a reason they would consider Jacksonville. It has also been mentioned as being a stage for public speakers that draw large crowds (mostly televangelists). I've also heard talks of some sort of annual video game tournament.

I know several businesses and non profit groups have already held luncheons and presentations at the stadium since the unveiling. There was also a job fair held there recently. Once the Jags season comes to an end expect to hear the events on the horizon to be announced.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Rynjny on September 29, 2014, 08:04:54 PM
blah blah blah blah blah...anything new?
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: ronchamblin on September 29, 2014, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: stephendare on September 29, 2014, 12:50:03 PM
Well, I am not a fan of football, in fact I am challenged to keep up with the rules most of the time.

But I do know that it significantly contributes to the quality of life for several hundred thousand people in this town.

I cannot imagine why it is sensible to begrudge so many people from having something that they desperately enjoy and want, especially if they willingly support the taxes for doing so.

It is expensive, and it is of limited value to me personally, but I imagine that many people feel precisely the same way about issues like public transportation and improved education for children.

I wouldn't want to start the precedent of saying that something so desired by so many people who are willing to pay for it should be denied on the basis that I don't enjoy the same thing that they do.

That said, I don't understand why the true numbers shouldn't have been presented from the very beginning.

My sentiments too.  I went to the Lee / Jackson football games in high school in the late fifties.  Since then, I've watched perhaps one game on TV, and have never attended a game.

People love and enjoy different things.  That's a good thing.  :)
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Tacachale on September 29, 2014, 08:53:52 PM
I'm fine with the scoreboards and other improvements and I think they're a good long term investment. However, I'm not at all confident that Mayor Brown got taxpayers the best deal we could have gotten on our end of the contribution.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: vicupstate on September 30, 2014, 04:26:30 AM
One thing that I don't think I have seen mentioned is that something that will be out of date and no doubt 'inadequate' in 10 years or less, is being financed for 30 years.  It's kind of like taking out a mortgage to buy a TV.

The stadium 'arms race' has no end in sight.  This is at least the third 'upgrade' to the stadium since it was built in 1994 is it not? It is not hard to see that the entire Bed Tax will eventually be dedicated to the stadium.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Tacachale on September 30, 2014, 07:55:25 AM
It's cheaper than buying a new one for half a billion dollars like some other places are doing.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Rob68 on September 30, 2014, 08:05:54 AM
So we signed onto a game that one person gets to make all of the cash at our cost?..we shouldnt be paying for a mucking thing...you guys out there are so mucked in the head....and thats right...every citizen should get a damn check...a profits check...if we invest and he makes a profit so should we...and more than a bunch of millionair highschool bullies that like to knock people over...i have no respect for them as a group..i worked for them the first 4 years and all i heard were  lies lies ans more lies..they try to get out of paying for whatever they can..low
ball everyone..like i said. ..this city deserves to be mucked over by these billionaires. ..i want more than a mucking game and an address that needs constant maintenance...and why cant we change the "law" that a city cant own a team..see guys...they muck us every way they can.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: vicupstate on September 30, 2014, 08:25:51 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 30, 2014, 07:55:25 AM
It's cheaper than buying a new one for half a billion dollars like some other places are doing.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 30, 2014, 07:55:25 AM
It's cheaper than buying a new one for half a billion dollars like some other places are doing.

Not that much cheaper when every bell and whistle that new stadium has, will be on the 'requirements' list soon enough.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: mbwright on September 30, 2014, 09:11:14 AM
Will the panels last 30 years?  I certainly expect the technology to change a bit.  There was a lot of hope with the super bowl that certainly did not pan out.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: spuwho on September 30, 2014, 09:12:01 AM
I checked around with my friends across the US who are NFL fans as well. I asked them all about the scoreboards and what they thought.

They all shrugged their shoulders and said it didnt really mean a whole lot to them. Mostly stuff about winning was more important.

Then I asked a few people I knew who handle concerts and they said they loved it and would love to have U2 do a 360 or ZooTV concert with them as backdrops.  All they could think of were the unique effects they could run through it as part of the concert experience.

I asked 2 friends that do the tractor/monster jam and they said it only works for them for the replays. Not much more.

Now that it exists, other than movie nights, what other things are possible that couldnt be done before?
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on September 30, 2014, 09:22:07 AM
Quote from: GatorShane on September 29, 2014, 12:04:53 PM
I am really tired of the bullshit argument that only a few wealthy people benefit from the stadium. I have tickets only because they offer a payment plan.

That's an interesting way to look at affordability.

Maybe, we can start charging a "stadium attendance fee", kind of like a fuel surcharge.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on September 30, 2014, 09:31:07 AM
Quote from: jaxjaguar on September 29, 2014, 02:36:44 PM

Also, say we generate 1/2 of the revenue expected $500 million. That would be roughly $40 million of taxes generated from one venue in one year... I'd say that's a pretty sweet deal.

What do you mean by "1/2 of the revenue expected $500 million"? Is there a statement or analysis proposing a $500 million dollar impact in one year because of the scoreboards?
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: edjax on September 30, 2014, 10:52:23 AM
Quote from: TheCat on September 30, 2014, 09:22:07 AM
Quote from: GatorShane on September 29, 2014, 12:04:53 PM
I am really tired of the bullshit argument that only a few wealthy people benefit from the stadium. I have tickets only because they offer a payment plan.

That's an interesting way to look at affordability.

Maybe, we can start charging a "stadium attendance fee", kind of like a fuel surcharge.

Every Jaguar ticket includes a City Fee.  The amount depends on the ticket value. For my season tickets the City Fee is $3.21 per ticket.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on September 30, 2014, 11:28:41 AM
We generate around $4.5 million in revenue from Everbank. I'm assuming that includes the "Stadium Attendance Fee".

Maybe, we need a separate "Largest Scoreboards in the World" viewing fee, as well.  ;)
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on October 01, 2014, 11:55:41 AM
Do you mean paying for sports and musical education from bed taxes?
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on October 01, 2014, 05:57:22 PM
I'm still not sure how I feel about the scoreboards. I'm trying to be open minded on it and look at it from the perspective of those individuals who love the idea. My knee jerk reaction; however, is probably very apparent.

My greater issue with the scoreboards (and the stadium) is the seeming blind acceptance of the money spent on the facilities. Someone on this forum posed a valid question when he asked "is there a price point when even the most avid football/Jaguars fan will say 'that's too much' ?"

Man, if I didn't understand that football is a religion before the scoreboard conversation...I certainly do now.

In response to your question. I don't think the comparison really holds.

I can respond to your statement,  "I mean the idea of people paying very large amounts of money for things that they won't be using."

There is an idea that when governments pay for something it should be a public good and very accessible. For instance, Duval County is required to educate every child...not just those who pay tuition.

We probably should take issue if art/music education was funded to subsidize a public facility, that was leased (at a very low rate) to a private enterprise, which required expensive tuition, for a relatively few children.

I would also take issue if we spent hundreds of millions on public safety but the only way to have access to a private police force was to subscribe to their service.




Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: strider on October 01, 2014, 07:07:30 PM
Has it been mentioned that the city is also responsible for the 1.2 million in yearly maintenance of the scoreboards? I was told last night that the council just realized than tidbit.

I think the issue here is that we as a city seem to do things because the returns tomorrow seem to be more than worth it. But we do those things without all the information and often bad information and so the decisions are not always based in reality. Those things are also often done by or administered by the same caliber of folks who gave us the determination from the Feds recently that we just do not have the capacity to do things right. The result then is those returns seldom come our way.

Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: edjax on October 01, 2014, 07:29:06 PM
I think if the City Council would not realize they would be responsible for the maintenance of a city owned asset and are now acting as if they did not know is more of an indictment of the city council members than anything.  Although I could see why they would think that as we know the city pretty much does not maintain anything belonging to the city. 
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on October 01, 2014, 08:15:02 PM
Quote from: strider on October 01, 2014, 07:07:30 PM
Has it been mentioned that the city is also responsible for the 1.2 million in yearly maintenance of the scoreboards? I was told last night that the council just realized than tidbit.

I think the issue here is that we as a city seem to do things because the returns tomorrow seem to be more than worth it. But we do those things without all the information and often bad information and so the decisions are not always based in reality. Those things are also often done by or administered by the same caliber of folks who gave us the determination from the Feds recently that we just do not have the capacity to do things right. The result then is those returns seldom come our way.


Wow, 1.2 million to maintain. We'll be looking at the electric bill at the end of the season too. It looks like it might add an extra $50k per month to the bottom line.

edjax, I think Jacksonville has a pretty good record of not appropriating funds for maintenance. 


Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: edjax on October 01, 2014, 09:56:15 PM
Yea. Kinda my point. They never do it so now acting like they were caught my surprise is pretty weak. 
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: bill on October 01, 2014, 10:10:49 PM
and the 1.5 mm they have to pay to put up temporary seating for FL/GA
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Redbaron616 on October 02, 2014, 09:10:02 PM
Sports teams have passed on the lie that they are such an asset to a city that the city should pay for anything and everything. Sports teams do nothing for a city. Exactly what are the Detroit teams doing for Detroit? It is just taking from the little guy wanting a hotel room and soaking him to fund the billionaires. No surprise there. You wanted a team, Jacksonville, now you get to pay the piper.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: tufsu1 on October 02, 2014, 09:17:36 PM
the boards were on last night and tonight...but why care...after all COJ pays the utility bill for the stadium
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: jaxjaguar on October 02, 2014, 11:25:25 PM
When you guys are finished with nitpicking every little detail of this let me know. It's tiring to constantly hear people complaining even when the city does something in good faith. I mean Jesus, why don't we just tear down Regan Field, the arena, and the Main library while we're at it. It's not like more than 1% of Jacksonvilles population uses them anyways so why bother funding them? While we're at it we should shut off friendship fountain after 6pm because it's not like anyone's downtown to see it..

It's called building a freaking city. You have to start somewhere. Everything isn't going to be perfect for everyone. If you know of a city where it is perfect, freaking leave already! The negativity on these boards is getting out of hand. It's one thing to criticize our failures, but to not see anything positive about this is just naive. Be happy that a large amount of people are getting joy out of this and that it's luring big business from other countries, states and cities.

We're slowly putting things together to make this a great city again, but it's been neglected for so long it's going to take time and a lot of money to turn things around. Let's be positive about something for once.   
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on October 02, 2014, 11:43:00 PM
Quote from: jaxjaguar on October 02, 2014, 11:25:25 PM
When you guys are finished with nitpicking every little detail of this let me know. It's tiring to constantly hear people complaining even when the city does something in good faith. I mean Jesus, why don't we just tear down Regan Field, the arena, and the Main library while we're at it. It's not like more than 1% of Jacksonvilles population uses them anyways so why bother funding them? While we're at it we should shut off friendship fountain after 6pm because it's not like anyone's downtown to see it..

It's called building a freaking city. You have to start somewhere. Everything isn't going to be perfect for everyone. If you know of a city where it is perfect, freaking leave already! The negativity on these boards is getting out of hand. It's one thing to criticize our failures, but to not see anything positive about this is just naive. Be happy that a large amount of people are getting joy out of this and that it's luring big business from other countries, states and cities.

We're slowly putting things together to make this a great city again, but it's been neglected for so long it's going to take time and a lot of money to turn things around. Let's be positive about something for once.


What nitpicking?

So, there are 6 home games with an average attendance of 60k people. 6 x 60 = 360,000 visitors.

Jacksonville Libraries had more than 3.9 million visitors last year.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: copperfiend on October 03, 2014, 09:55:02 AM
There are more than 6 home games.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on October 03, 2014, 12:14:06 PM
You're right. 8 games. So, 60,000 x 8 = 480,000 visitors.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: ProjectMaximus on October 03, 2014, 12:29:07 PM
I am personally for the scoreboards. I would have voted yes had there been a referendum.

But that said, I think that, especially on these boards, some of us pro-scoreboard folk sound a bit callous and very cavalier. This was a huge expenditure and it's fair to consider the thoughts and opinions of others who have every right to care about how our collective resources are deployed. Anyway, to you anti-scoreboarders, I sympathize and welcome the feedback. I wish the people on my side of the fence were more receptive to listening.

And just fyi, my main reason for being pro-scoreboard is that I believe the benefits in the long run are worth the risk. Maybe they help lure an NCAAF Championship and Super Bowl, or maybe they don't. But to me it is worth trying for, and at the least there will be smaller and less visible impact. I also put a lot of faith in the benefits of having the Jaguars, and I believe the scoreboards help solidify the franchise in the city for many years to come.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: ProjectMaximus on October 03, 2014, 12:33:30 PM
Quote from: jaxjaguar on October 02, 2014, 11:25:25 PM
When you guys are finished with nitpicking every little detail of this let me know. It's tiring to constantly hear people complaining even when the city does something in good faith. I mean Jesus, why don't we just tear down Regan Field, the arena, and the Main library while we're at it. It's not like more than 1% of Jacksonvilles population uses them anyways so why bother funding them? While we're at it we should shut off friendship fountain after 6pm because it's not like anyone's downtown to see it..

It's called building a freaking city. You have to start somewhere. Everything isn't going to be perfect for everyone. If you know of a city where it is perfect, freaking leave already! The negativity on these boards is getting out of hand. It's one thing to criticize our failures, but to not see anything positive about this is just naive. Be happy that a large amount of people are getting joy out of this and that it's luring big business from other countries, states and cities.

We're slowly putting things together to make this a great city again, but it's been neglected for so long it's going to take time and a lot of money to turn things around. Let's be positive about something for once.

This is totally uncalled for. They could also tell you to leave and take the Jaguars with you. It's strange that you want someone to leave just because they don't agree with spending $43 million dollars on a non-necessity. If all those people left as you suggest, we probably wouldn't even be able to afford the scoreboards. We can barely afford them as it is.

And of course nobody is suggesting tearing down Everbank Field, so why should you suggest it for the arena, library, etc? Not comparable.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: I-10east on October 03, 2014, 01:15:30 PM
^^^I think that he is just PO'd with this very redundant topic that was already talked about ad nausem, and I can relate with the frustration of beating a dead horse over and over again. I didn't read anything over the top on what he said. Just type in 'scoreboards' in the search, and look at how many times that this already has been covered. Bizjax, and jaxdailyrecord have been lit up with recent good paying jobs coming to the city, but we rather talk about scoreboards all day....

I'm not gonna even entertain this stupid topic no longer. If anyone feel like me, boycott this topic, and let the scoreboard haters duke it out amongst each other. 
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: copperfiend on October 03, 2014, 02:30:28 PM
Quote from: TheCat on October 03, 2014, 12:14:06 PM
You're right. 8 games. So, 60,000 x 8 = 480,000 visitors.

9 plus the scrimmage
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: KenFSU on October 03, 2014, 02:54:15 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on October 03, 2014, 02:30:28 PM
Quote from: TheCat on October 03, 2014, 12:14:06 PM
You're right. 8 games. So, 60,000 x 8 = 480,000 visitors.

9 plus the scrimmage

Plus any home playoff games.

(http://replygif.net/i/980.gif)
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on October 03, 2014, 03:18:50 PM
Quote from: I-10east on October 03, 2014, 01:15:30 PM
^^^I think that he is just PO'd with this very redundant topic that was already talked about ad nausem, and I can relate with the frustration of beating a dead horse over and over again. I didn't read anything over the top on what he said. Just type in 'scoreboards' in the search, and look at how many times that this already has been covered. Bizjax, and jaxdailyrecord have been lit up with recent good paying jobs coming to the city, but we rather talk about scoreboards all day....

I'm not gonna even entertain this stupid topic no longer. If anyone feel like me, boycott this topic, and let the scoreboard haters duke it out amongst each other.

If someone decided to do an analysis of courthouse expenditures it should be welcomed not decried as "beating a dead horse." If someone decided to look to see if library dollars or park dollars were spent wisely, that should be welcomed.

At every turn, if someone in our community decides to look at how money is spent we are all better off and wiser.

When I read your statements about the scoreboards, it seems you do think the amount of money spent was too much so you would rather silence the conversation than productively engage with it.

There is no such thing as "beating a dead horse" when it comes to discussing how our city is governed or how tax dollars are spent.

Boycott away.  ???





Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: strider on October 03, 2014, 06:34:44 PM
Besides, beating a dead horse never bother the horse much anyway. 

I'm not a scoreboard hater nor do I care all that much either way   But I am so tried of seeing the mishandling of funds, the too often misuse of our tax dollars, be they state, local or federal and frankly, the scoreboards are border line being misuse when the budget is in bad shape and they forget about things like the maintenance.  these funds could have been used elsewhere as long as they were in the same category of sports or entertainment. The number of home games or play off games is totally immaterial.  They would happen anyway.  It is only any new stuff that would never have happened without the scoreboards that will determine if they were a good investment or just one more of this city's wasted efforts. Even determining that will be a tough call. I would be more hopefully if I didn't know this city's track record.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Rob68 on October 03, 2014, 08:00:08 PM
This city deserves what it gets. We have elected a city council that apparently felt its was just fine to blow this kind of cssh as thought it were theres alone. Are we not going to hold them accountable to their decisions?..Did they not understand what they were doing?...Were they lied to or cohersed into believing a bunch of bullshit by a man in a big mustache and pig skin dreams? 
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: ronchamblin on October 04, 2014, 01:21:35 AM
The success or failure of city funded projects around and in the core has considerable impact upon the willingness of citizens to accept paying additional taxes; this influences the rate at which the city core proceeds to vibrancy via incentives and infrastructure enhancements.   

As an increasing number of publicly assisted or funded projects (the Skyway, the Landing, the Super-Sized Screens etc.) are viewed as failures, wastes, or mediocrities by way of error or stupidity, the persuasion for higher taxes becomes more difficult. 

Conversely, an increased number of successful projects will allow perceptions of efficiency and real payback; thus easing the process for a more realistic tax base for the area. 

If too many of the individuals in positions of influence and voting continue to be infected with the negative aspects of politics, favoritism, ignorance, and stupidity ... errors and waste of public funds will continue, and only the naive will be convinced to pay more taxes. 
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: WmNussbaum on October 04, 2014, 02:08:10 AM
COJ put up a good percentage of the cost of the JUMBOTRONS, but what percentage of the ad revenue they produce goes to COJ?
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Dog Walker on October 04, 2014, 09:55:31 AM
Quote from: WmNussbaum on October 04, 2014, 02:08:10 AM
COJ put up a good percentage of the cost of the JUMBOTRONS, but what percentage of the ad revenue they produce goes to COJ?

Bill, you just gave me a good laugh!
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: UNFurbanist on July 13, 2015, 10:04:48 AM
Please watch this segment on sports teams from Last Week Tonight with John Oliver! Jacksonville is guilty of almost all of this but we are certainly not alone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs)
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Noone on July 13, 2015, 11:34:45 AM
Quote from: Dog Walker on October 04, 2014, 09:55:31 AM
Quote from: WmNussbaum on October 04, 2014, 02:08:10 AM
COJ put up a good percentage of the cost of the JUMBOTRONS, but what percentage of the ad revenue they produce goes to COJ?

Bill, you just gave me a good laugh!

+1
We don't even get a penny.
Visit Jacksonville!
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: ProjectMaximus on July 13, 2015, 03:24:17 PM
Quote from: UNFurbanist on July 13, 2015, 10:04:48 AM
Please watch this segment on sports teams from Last Week Tonight with John Oliver! Jacksonville is guilty of almost all of this but we are certainly not alone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs)

Thanks for the share. LOL @ second-most laid.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on August 11, 2015, 10:48:07 AM
Great bit from John Oliver. Thanks for sharing.

paraphrased quote:

You'd be better off dropping a billion dollars on the populace and letting them spend it.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Adam White on August 11, 2015, 11:20:51 AM
I really can't stand John Oliver. But people should watch this. Or maybe more journalists should do stories on stuff like this. It's really some of the worst corporate welfare - yet people turn a blind eye (or openly agitate for it) because they like sports and fear losing their "local" sports franchise.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on October 27, 2015, 11:50:02 AM
QuoteJacksonville spending $1.35 million on temporary seats for Florida-Georgia game

The city of Jacksonville is spending $1.35 million to have temporary seating installed for the Florida-Georgia college football game.
Matson Drywall & Building Contractor LLC pulled a city building permit yesterday for the Oct. 31 game at EverBank Field. The permit describes the project as "installation of north, south, east and west temporary seating" for the game.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/money_makers/2015/10/jacksonville-spending-1-35-million-on-temporary.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/money_makers/2015/10/jacksonville-spending-1-35-million-on-temporary.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search)
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: Captain Zissou on October 27, 2015, 12:09:57 PM
Why did you add this to the scoreboard thread?  It's important to know what percentage of the ticket sales will go to the city, but even without this the city will more than make this money back this weekend. 
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: TheCat on November 13, 2015, 10:13:49 AM
If I remember correctly, there was prognostication that the scoreboards would result in world class concerts and events booking at the stadium.

Just checking to see if U2 has decided to come through JAX?
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: thelakelander on November 13, 2015, 10:22:59 AM
Notre Dame, Navy to meet in Jacksonville in 2016
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/college-gridiron-365/os-notre-dame-navy-to-meet-at-everbank-field-in-2016-20150708-post.html

Notre Dame, Navy rumored for EverBank Field in 2016
QuoteJacksonville is also said to be interested in hosting a College Football Playoff game and eventually a College Football National Championship game.

The recent upgrades to EverBank Field, including new scoreboards and premium seating, has helped to make to the River City a bigger player in bringing upper-level sporting events to town.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/sports/2015/07/02/notre-dame-navy-rumored-for-everbank-field-in-2016/29650041/
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: I-10east on November 13, 2015, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: TheCat on November 13, 2015, 10:13:49 AM
If I remember correctly, there was prognostication that the scoreboards would result in world class concerts and events booking at the stadium.

Just checking to see if U2 has decided to come through JAX?

Most major concerts come to arenas, ie Mary J Blige, Justin Bieber etc at the JVMA. 
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: I-10east on November 13, 2015, 10:38:24 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 13, 2015, 10:22:59 AM
Notre Dame, Navy to meet in Jacksonville in 2016
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/college-gridiron-365/os-notre-dame-navy-to-meet-at-everbank-field-in-2016-20150708-post.html

Notre Dame, Navy rumored for EverBank Field in 2016
QuoteJacksonville is also said to be interested in hosting a College Football Playoff game and eventually a College Football National Championship game.

The recent upgrades to EverBank Field, including new scoreboards and premium seating, has helped to make to the River City a bigger player in bringing upper-level sporting events to town.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/sports/2015/07/02/notre-dame-navy-rumored-for-everbank-field-in-2016/29650041/

That would be awesome!
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: RattlerGator on November 13, 2015, 05:20:18 PM
And the multi-purpose facility and amphitheater add to the competitiveness. College playoff game, maybe. Not sure we'll be able to get a championship game.
Title: Re: The $100 Million Jacksonville Jaguars Scoreboards
Post by: thelakelander on November 13, 2015, 09:16:43 PM
No, no U2. Just more high profile sporting events.