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QuoteEvery transit advocate knows this timeless Onion headline: "98 Percent Of U.S. Commuters Favor Public Transportation For Others." But the underlying truth that makes this line so funny also makes it a little concerning: enthusiasm for public transportation far, far outweighs the actual use of it. Last week, for instance, the American Public Transportation Association reported that 74 percent of people support more mass transit spending. But only 5 percent of commuters travel by mass transit. This support, in other words, is largely for others.
What's more striking about the support-usage gap is that it doesn't just exist on paper. In addition to saying they support transit funding, Americans back up that support with their own pocketbooks. Time and again at the polls, people are willing to raise local taxes to maintain or expand the transit service that so few of them actually use. According to the Center for Transportation Excellence, there were 62 transportation measures on ballots across the country in 2012—many with a considerable transit component—and nearly 80 percent of them succeeded.
Full article: http://www.citylab.com/commute/2014/09/if-so-many-people-support-mass-transit-why-do-so-few-ride/380570/
It's all about convenience. I think a streetcar system in Jax would be cool. Would I use it? MAYBE a few times a year. That's the truth, and I think most posters here would be in the same boat, if they admit it or not.
I agree that convenience plays a role. I use the Skyway often because it's convenient for me and free. There's a station right across the street from my office and it's much easy to hop on it during lunch then walking a few blocks to garage, driving, finding a parking space, then doing everything in reverse. Overall, I'd use mass transit in Jax a lot more if it were reliable, timely, and end user friendly.
On the other hand, I won't lie. I use I-295 West Beltway, SR 9B, and First Coast Expressway MAYBE a few times a year and half of the time, I'm driving to them to get images for Metro Jacksonville.
I support mass transit because one day before I die I'd like to have a working transit system I could use. I don't ride it because it's not a working system I can use, it's a system of last resort for those who don't have any other option. For the rest of us I can't afford to leave 2 hours early for everything and take two hours to get back even if I'm only going 10 miles.
They hit it right at the end. Driving has been kept extremely easy and subsidized.
Harvardpolitics.com ran a piece on the how the broken American parking system contributes to this.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,22561.msg389876.html#msg389876 (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,22561.msg389876.html#msg389876)
The public's logic in support but not usage is similar to things like referendums on education approved overwhelmingly by voters not involved in the school system, and strong support for libraries that people don't frequent.
As the article said we know it's good for us as a community, and it's a practical and logical idea, but we're too busy/spoiled to use it. We also see it as a good move for the "future".
It's all about connectivity. A interconnected grid of lines that run on time, dependably. Connections that involve little to no waiting and across the platform/sidewalk walk. It's about the last mile (especially true in states with severe climates) where heat, snow or ice make the last mile miserable. Bike share, vehicle share, Skyway and shuttles should all count. It's about allowing ALL PUBLIC TRANSIT to use the BRT lanes, Taxi's, Greyhound, Megabus, Red Coach, La Cubana, etc.. It's about convenience, 110 volt outlet on transit, and wifi. Its about CLEAN, well illuminated, sheltered stops.
And finally about streetcar. Will you ride it? Do you use the Skyway? If yes, then you'll use streetcar. Consider the attraction of it; When the streetcars were replaced by modern buses in Oklahoma City transit ridership immediately fell by 97%. There is a story in that.
I use the skyway whenever travelling from the south bank to the north bank for meetings, but that is it. If it connected me to where I lived, I would ride to and from work. It's biggest problem as I see it, is it doesn't connect people from where they live to where they work... and Jacksonville residents are in love with their cars and they look down upon mass transit as if it is for the under privileged.
You simply cannot use what you do not have.
Generally people support the strategic goals of mass transit, but the system may not present the best form of mobility for those involved.
I used Chicago's Metra for years for work. But rarely used the L (CTA) and when I did, only when I had to catch a flight at OHare from the Loop or go to a Cubs game.
But neither provided optimal transportation to Ohare from my home. At least not in a timely fashion.
While it was technically possible for me via Metra, the routing would have taken over 2 hours, driving was less than 30.
I wish I could take a train to work here today. I could take a bus, but the last time I checked the routing required an hour with a transfer. I can drive it in 12-15 minutes with nearly zero traffic.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 23, 2014, 07:18:27 AM
I agree that convenience plays a role. I use the Skyway often because it's convenient for me and free.
Just curious - would you still use if it weren't free? What if it was 50 cents but with the same convenience?
Quote from: JaxNative68 on September 23, 2014, 11:13:47 AM
I use the skyway whenever travelling from the south bank to the north bank for meetings, but that is it. If it connected me to where I lived, I would ride to and from work. It's biggest problem as I see it, is it doesn't connect people from where they live to where they work... and Jacksonville residents are in love with their cars and they look down upon mass transit as if it is for the under privileged.
The Skyway isn't going to be everything for everybody. Using it for trips across the river and back is a great usage for the Skyway. But most work connections, unless you live on either the Downtown core, or either of the two banks, then its not going to be a good option for you. Longer trips will take either a commuter train from several directions with the centralized station to nearby residential or a better bus system (exclusive lanes might be nice but FDOT doesn't seem to like that idea) that can be reliable and frequent. Perhaps the JTA's new Route Optimization plan might solve option #2 - but we'll have to wait and see how that works out.
Even if it does work, it will still take some time to get people to buy into trying it. As one poster said - we do love our cars.
Expanding the Skyway on shorter routes into the neighboring areas - Springfield, San Marco and Riverside would go a long way to adding that "from home to work" element. The Brooklyn expansion would have been a good start for that.
Quote from: exnewsman on September 23, 2014, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 23, 2014, 07:18:27 AM
I agree that convenience plays a role. I use the Skyway often because it's convenient for me and free.
Just curious - would you still use if it weren't free? What if it was 50 cents but with the same convenience?
You can't really use that argument. I believe the main issue with the fee was the collection method and not the fee itself. And seriously, when the majority of the trips on the Skyway are from Rosa Park to Hemming and back... is it really worth $.50 for 4 blocks?
My issue with the 0.50 cents is the same issue I have with downtown parking meters. It's the 21st century. I don't carry quarters around in my pockets like I did as a kid in the late 80s and early 90s, and the hassle of trying to is worse than driving, IMO.
That alone, resulted in a change for me. Instead of taking the Skyway to visit places on the other side of the river, I'd seek alternatives or just waited till I left downtown altogether to take care of errands, on my drive back home. Similarly, when I didn't work downtown at a company that pays for my monthly parking, I avoided the hassle of keeping quarters on me and worrying about getting ticketed for exceeding time by avoiding downtown businesses, altogether. Instead, it was easier to drive the extra mile to places in Riverside, San Marco, and Springfield.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 23, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
My issue with the 0.50 cents is the same issue I have with downtown parking meters. It's the 21st century. I don't carry quarters around in my pockets like I did as a kid in the late 80s and early 90s, and the hassle of trying to is worse than driving, IMO.
That alone, resulted in a change for me. Instead of taking the Skyway to visit places on the other side of the river, I'd seek alternatives or just waited till I left downtown altogether to take care of errands, on my drive back home. Similarly, when I didn't work downtown at a company that pays for my monthly parking, I avoided the hassle of keeping quarters on me and worrying about getting ticketed for exceeding time by avoiding downtown businesses, altogether. Instead, it was easier to drive the extra mile to places in Riverside, San Marco, and Springfield.
Lake - you've traveled quite a bit. What do other cities with trains/streetcars handle the money issue?
I like that the Skyway is free. Its certainly easier to just get on and ride than ensuring you have change. I haven't ridden similar vehicles elsewhere so I was wondering what your experience is with other cities and their trains - Charlotte, Vegas, Portland, Tucson, etc. as far as payment goes.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 23, 2014, 02:05:47 PM
Quote from: exnewsman on September 23, 2014, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 23, 2014, 07:18:27 AM
I agree that convenience plays a role. I use the Skyway often because it's convenient for me and free.
Just curious - would you still use if it weren't free? What if it was 50 cents but with the same convenience?
You can't really use that argument. I believe the main issue with the fee was the collection method and not the fee itself. And seriously, when the majority of the trips on the Skyway are from Rosa Park to Hemming and back... is it really worth $.50 for 4 blocks?
It wasn't an argument. It was a question to that point only. I'm aware of the collection issue in the past. I was strictly wondering if a fee would be a deterrent to future usage given his "convenient" usage.
With everything else at JTA running on the STAR card you can assume, I think, that it can no longer use the old collection system for the Skyway at this point. That's why I didn't include it in my question.
Quote from: exnewsman on September 23, 2014, 05:28:32 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 23, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
My issue with the 0.50 cents is the same issue I have with downtown parking meters. It's the 21st century. I don't carry quarters around in my pockets like I did as a kid in the late 80s and early 90s, and the hassle of trying to is worse than driving, IMO.
That alone, resulted in a change for me. Instead of taking the Skyway to visit places on the other side of the river, I'd seek alternatives or just waited till I left downtown altogether to take care of errands, on my drive back home. Similarly, when I didn't work downtown at a company that pays for my monthly parking, I avoided the hassle of keeping quarters on me and worrying about getting ticketed for exceeding time by avoiding downtown businesses, altogether. Instead, it was easier to drive the extra mile to places in Riverside, San Marco, and Springfield.
Lake - you've traveled quite a bit. What do other cities with trains/streetcars handle the money issue?
Fare collection is easier.....even in the case of BRT, like the Health Line in Cleveland. I can pay by card and typically you can pay once, no matter how many transfers you need to take to your destination. However, in the case of the T in Pittsburgh, I do like that downtown is a fare free zone for that LRT system. The Metromover in Downtown Miami is another fare free example.